Beware – I would say to believers – the patronage of unbelievers

Martin from Oxford

Yes, I am in complete agreement with you Matthew Parris. I am an atheist and prepared to say categorically , and argue to the death that "THERE ARE NO GODS".

I have responded to the likes of Andrew Brown (Comment is Free) who, just as you mention, is hostile to those who challange the integrity of religion, militant atheists etc, etc, but where he never states that there actually is a god. Never does he say he has access to divine thinking to back up his reasoning nor that anyone else has either. He seems to argue that in principal it doesn't really matter if there is a god or not but that it is good to pretend there is.

Basically he is an atheist but likes the idea that religion is good for others.

Ranmore

"Is it true? — that is the question"

That's a question that can never be answered. A better question is "is it likely to be true" - to which the answer is no.

Nick Arrow

"It all depends on what you mean by God": if it's an old bloke in the sky, who interferes in our lives and tells us how to behave,highly unlikely. But that existence is created, and sustained, by a conscious volition, is no more implausible that that it just happens by accident; and one or other has to be true!

David B

I think Martin from Oxford goes a little too far in claiming that there are no Gods. Only a little, though.

I would say that there are no gods as the term is generally understood - an entity actively concerned with the world, and the thoughts and actions of people.

There are other concepts of God, though. Some sort of vague deism, or pantheism, or God as a ground of being or something.

To my mind these less demonstrably wrong than, say, a creator God who made the world in a Biblical time scale, but as well as being less obviously wrong they are less important, to the point of complete irrelevance. Not the sort of God to kill for, to die for, to persecute for.

Parris excellent as usual, and spot on.

I sign with my usual internet handle.

David B

Nick

As a Christian, I congratulate you on an excellent article Mr Parris. I share your view of 'soft' faith and am reminded of the Yes Minister scene in which Sir Humphrey reminds the minister that 'theology is merely device through which agnostics can remain in the church'.

My one quibble is where you state that 'doubt is not faith'. To the contrary, doubt is the very essence of faith; the opposite of faith is not doubt but certainty.

I hope you do not find me offensive in saying so but I will pray for you.

Martin from York

Disappointed that you describe the description of Richard Dawkins by Giles Coren (Nerd King, preening master of self-promotion, slippery old silver fox, “disco don” of the Dark Side, God-slayer and pompous champion of the Atheist Delusion'.) as 'knock about'.
I just find it offensive, and puerile.
(A sign that you have lost the argument)
Shouldn't you be praising intellectual criticism above schoolboy name calling?
I don't recall hearing Professor Dawkins descending to such banality.

Jon Tilson

It is quite clear that as usual Mr Paris really does get the big issue. Is it True? Jesus said I am the Truth. Pilate asked him "What is Truth". If Jesus was not indeed the embodiment of the Truth, he couldn't and wouldn't have risen from the dead. The fact that he did proves he was right, and for 2000 years those of us that know him personally have been and will continue to live in the freedom that only real knowledge of the truth can bring.

Kimpatsu

This article is so deeply confused. Where is the evidence that "Jesus" came at all? The only issue is not whether Xianity, or Islam, or any other superstition is comforting, but whether it is TRUE. Or does the truth not matter in journalism any more...?

Andy from New Zealand

Matthew, you are profoundly encouraging to Chritians all over the world. When we speak of truth it is the sort of truth you have been asking about since you were 12 - truth, wrapped not in speculative hope but in personal revelation. Truth in a person.

Michael from York, I'm sad to say that Dawkins has stooped far lower than the schoolboy "knockabout" you critique - you should read ore of his stuff.

Tom

An excellent article and I largely agree with Mr Parris. However, I would like to point out that unbelievers arguing for the good of religion are not an entirely useless force. As a believer, yes I fully believe that truth is found in Christ. But I still believe that many of the "trappings" of my religion, despite being distorted heavily through the years, were given to us by God for our benefit, and can bless believer and unbeliever alike (one of the many aspects of God's grace that does not require acceptance of Jesus to benefit from).

For instance, Christianity's promotion of self-control, charity, forgiveness etc - for a true Christian these all flow from a common source, that is our response to the grace we have received. But if non-believing commentators want to extol these virtues, I'm not going to stop them - they are no less true.

Graham Cresswell

As Alan Bennett famously remarked, "the Church of England is so constituted as to allow its members to believe anything they like, but nobody much does". As you say, the only question worth answering is "is it true?" and it's incredible that any thinking person can be indifferent to the answer.

David Matcham

'Is it true?'

What is truth? said jesting Pilate, and would not stay for an answer.

James L

'If I seriously suspected a faith might be true, I would devote the rest of my life to finding out.'

As an agnostic I always believed the above applied to myself as well and questioned the true faith of those who claimed to believe but did not live the life of saints therefore risking hell. It was then pointed out to me that though I'm 50% sure it will kill me and intend to quite at some point I still smoke. Apparently faith in an inevitable outcome of even the worse sort in the future is not quite enough to make us behave better in the present. Perhaps then even if I were a believer I would still sleep in on Thursdays and indulge in greed and gluttony, postponing the 'devote the rest of my life' part to next week.

Mark O'Donoghue

Thank you for a helpful article. You are right that the question of truth is vital and I would encourage Kimpatsu to look at the evidence for Jesus in history rather than merely assume it doesn't exist. Why not start with Prof Richard Bauckham's 'Jesus and the Eye-Witnesses'. It will show that that there is solid ground for believing in the Jesus Christ of whom the gospel accounts speak. Such a search may expose our ignorance and our caricatures but surely they are worth losing if we find truth.

Uppercut

For someone who is apparently unconvinced about religion and Christianity (and this is not the first article he has posted on the subject) Matthew Parris appears to have a pretty thorough grasp on what it truly means and what it is about as a believer. It is historically driven and so completely improbable that it is untrue - it simply could not be fabricated. The conviction of the early believers is what created the church today and this conviction ran counter to all power bases of the time and has outlasted them all. It is this conviction too that will save the church, not as a valuable social institution or part of the fabric of an idealised version of England, but as an institution that stands for and defends the truth.

Lyndsey Simpson

Oh my goodness Mr. Parris. Why aren't you a Christian? You see things so clearly.

Christopher Finlay

So you want all Christians to become intolerant bigots. You are falling into the same trap that Richard Dawkins has fallen into Christianity is not a set fixed of truths valid for all time. It is something that develops as peoples understanding of God changes.

Would you want the Church of England to have regular stoning of its members for commiting adultery or putting to death those who are gay.

I suggest you start reading some basic systematic theology otherwise what will happen is that the church will just be left in the hand of bigots

Gareth Jones

@Christopher Finlay
I would hope that those Christians among us who do have a grasp of “basic systematic theology” would understand the distinctions between civil elements of the Mosaic Law which apply specifically to the Jewish state of Israel during the Old Testament times in which they were culturally appropriate, and the moral elements which relate to human nature which does not change.

While no one would advocate stoning people to death in 2012, it remains the case that adultery is one of most damaging things that someone in a committed relationship could do. It can be immensely painful for the cheated partner, and a source of profound regret for those who engage it in. Less than half of marriages survive such affairs. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone to have to go through an ordeal of this sort, but many do.

The Bible is not wrong to warn against adultery, nor is it unique in viewing adultery negatively. It’s precisely because the Bible recognises that affairs are such a powerful temptation for so many people that it needs to warn strongly against their dangers. However, your systematic theological reading will also encounter the strong Biblical emphasis on grace. In the gospels, for example, Jesus sympathy towards and acceptance of notorious ‘sinners’ (of all sorts) is striking, even while he challenges the severity of their actions. This is the model that the church is exhorted to follow: hate the sin, LOVE the sinner. If anything, Christians need to do more, not less, of this, if for no other reason than that we fall prey to the same struggles and temptations as everyone else.

David WIlson

The professing Christians do have to listen to Jesus voice when He says in Matthew 10: Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

It is a way of love and Holiness lived in His power and His love on the cross and today as He lives with us.

david wilson

A Christian bigot? Not if your following Jesus. That does not mean that you will live your life in a manner consistent with God's ways - what ever your carnal desires may say to you - and encourage others to have the faith to do likewise . When you are living with God you are loved and you see the world differently and love differently.

graham wood

Matthew. You ask: "Is it true".
I answer: Yes, of course it is true.
There is a primary truth encaspsulated in the well attested historical fact that Jesus Christ conquered death and rose from death in his body.
You need look no further than the New Testament and the many writers who attest this fact. Its really up to you!

Rebecca

If you are looking for 'truth' and evidence of that 'truth', I can recommend reading Mark Cahill's One Heartbeat Away: Your Journey Into Eternity. It clearly, concisely and simply goes through logical arguments about why we are here and where we will go when we die. Every open minded person truly searching for the truth will be deeply challenged by it.

bob

As a truly believing Christian, I found your commentary here right on. Real Christians (and I suppose real Jews, Muslims, etc.) feel the same way. From a Christian perspective, we call these "unbelieving" believers nominal (in name only) Christians. And we don't think they are helpful, either.

DAVID ROBERTSON

Wonderful article - and I say that as a Believer! QUite amused that Martin from York states that Richard Dawkins does not descend to 'the banality' of name calling - clearly he has not read the God Delusion - or maybe his faith is blinding him!

Neil Rae

As a Christian, I wholeheartedly agree with what Matthew Paris has said. I think the bit about Jesus coming to cause division needs to be taken in context but Jesus was radical and did say such things. I also agree that athiests are very often a driving force for Christians. They may flush out the half-hearted believer but they will surely stimulate REAL beleivers to grow in their faith.

Meg Davis

Dear Mr Parris

Your article was thoroughly stimulating! At the age of 21 I became thoroughly convinced of the power of Jesus as expressed in the gospels to transform my life. Not only that, over 40 years, I have found life's journey as a committed Christian only to be of real meaning if I am prepared to be thoroughly radical and pioneering, and not mix other world views,(often so attractively and deceptively presented!) with the world view of the Bible.

When Jesus says He is the 'only way to the Father' I think he means it!

Meg Davis
Immanuel Community

Paul Worthington

Is not the ability to live in doubt essential to enlightened civilisation? The sceptic's determination to live with unanswerable questions preferable to the fundamentalist's desperate compulsion to believe and propogate unfoundable certainties? Not to not ask the questions, which is the coward's way out, whether he answer yea or a resounding and unfounded nay. But to live with the question. And allow others the same. A little whimsical distance, but deep interest. And at the same time a strong determination to thwart those who impose creeds with violence.

simon

"Is it true? — that is the question"

A better question is "is it likely to be true" - to which the answer is yes. And if so, you must trust it and stake your life on it.

Richard S-H

As an evangelical Christian, it's uplifting to have what I believe so passsionately (that it matters what you believe, and it shapes your whole life) backed up by someone who doesn't believe the same things as I do. Matthew Parris is 100% right on this. In fact - Matthew, have you thought about becoming a preacher...?

Eugene

I liked what Matthew wrote about how if "a faith is true it must have the most profound consequences for a man and for mankind." Being prepared to die or even spend years of this short life in defense of the idea that God does not exist just seems odd to me. That's your life and energy arguing for something which you yourself decided does not exist.

John S

Hmmm...interesting that Matthew's definition of Christianity extends only to the Anglican branch. Maybe in his part of Derbyshire all the Catholics have been wiped out.

I'd also quibble with his impression/assertion that to be devout one does not have doubts. All men and women whom I know who I would call devout (of whatever faith) confess to doubts. Graham Greene built a career out of it.

Brett

Yes. Is it true, is the question.
The notion that religion is simply good for society is a beguiling one that will ultimately result in more harm than good.
True faith does have the most profound consequences for man, though to which few are prepared to commit.
Life demonstrates a serious suspicion of a true faith.
Devotion will provide the finding out.

Brett

Brett from Sydney Australia.
Yes. Is it true, is the question.
The notion that religion is simply good for society is a beguiling one that will ultimately result in more harm than good.
True faith does have the most profound consequences for man, though to which few are prepared to commit.
Life demonstrates a serious suspicion of a true faith.
Devotion will provide the finding out.

Dave

I have no problem with the belief in some kind of 'other' out there and am sure that 'other' would wish us to behave in a manner religious beliefs generally proscribe. However the rituals of religion are transparently control mechanisms;ever wondered why religions and governments work together so closely. I wouldn't mind but judging by the number of deaths caused in the name of religion the control isn't happening.

Liz

The truth is knowing Jesus isn't about religion, its about freedom. Living by religion is arrogantly assuming it is all down to us, instead living by freedom is recognising it's all down to Jesus. Its not about what you do but who God is. Just ask Him to show you if you want to find out.

Douglas

Thank you for the excellent article Matthew. In light of your argument, I would like to know what it would take for your atheism to be shaken and for you to take seriously the possibility that one particular religion might be true. A personal encounter with God? Answered prayer? Better arguments than you have encountered thus far?

Karen, outside the uk

Fantastic article, how full of passion it is! I agree that atheists and fundamental believers in Jesus are often the most similar, if only in their desperate and unceasing pursuit of what's true.

Also one of the more interesting views on the current secular/ religious debate.

Martin from Staines

I wish to disassociate myself from the comments made by 'Martin from Oxford' and 'Martin from York' They are obviously inferior Martins - because I say so.

There's nothing worse than an evangelical Christian who tries to ram their religion down your throat.
Except of course an evangelical atheist who tries to ram their religion down your throat.