Labour Conference abolishes Britishness

Owld Grumbleton

New Zealand has had decades of this nonsense, but has now largely given up. Most forms asking for ethnicity suggest the usual options but leave a blank to fill in as you please. I usually declare myself to be Britanno Celt.

AlanofEngland

How about "Without Mandate Scottish" or "SubPrime Scottish" just for one JG Brown?

salieri

Why the hell should you have to declare your nationality at all? What business is it of any lousy party conference? Did they ask for your sexual orientation as well? Number of children and 'partners'? Income bracket? Welcome to the form-filling democracy.

John

What inconsistent and ignorant nonsense can we expect to see on the next census form? The last one had a complete mix-up between ethnicity and culture, proving that whoever designed it could not be relied upon to design a sausage roll.

Tom

British citizenship - nationality is English, Welsh, Scottish or Irish.

Pete, Scotland

It is time all this nonsense ended.

In fact it is probably too late.

On the one hand I am Scottish and proud of it, on the other I am British and proud of it. Just like the vast majority of Scots around me.

Devolution has changed things though. The balance of power has changed. As Westminster becomes less and less relevant due to the shift of power to Europe I am thinking why not have an independent Scotland?

The SNP have proven far better than just anybody expected, they are certainly viewed as much more competent and likeable than Labour.

Gordon Brown is one of the main architects of Devolution, if the UK breaks up then it will be down to his (and Labours') political gamble to give Scots a political system that most weren't that bothered about.

Labour cashed in on Scots anger at having Thatcher destroy our industrial base along with all the jobs. I took part in many marches against the Thatcher Government but I never wanted the UK to break up.

I don't know how things will turn out but I wish Labour had just left our country as the UK & Britain. It was better and less divided then.

Water

The word subsumed springs to mind.

Adrian Drummond

Personally, I prefer it. I always write 'English' regardless. I stopped feeling British about fifteen years ago. That collective sense of identity no exists for me. In fact, I sometimes wonder what actually constitutes an 'English' identity. When I was at school in the seventies I knew, understood and identified with my fellow citizens. I no longer can say the same.

John of Enfield

I always remember the South African "Pencil Test". The said pencil was used to differentiate between Black & Brown by the police. They stuck it in your hair and asked you to shake your head. If it stayed in you were black....

I also remember queueing at A&E with my very ill wife & the receptionist was having trouble getting patients to tell her what their "ethnicity" was. One, tense & very worried, Dad with his desperately sick daughter had to have the question explained to him several times. "Ah" he said at last "I'm from Tottenham".

I too always decline to answer such fatuous questions.

John

I too always decline to answer such fatuous questions, like the other John (except that I didn't quite have the courage to decline to do it on the census form last time, and be summoned before the beak; I wish now that I did).
Most of my acquaintances regard themselves as English rather than British, and feel quite strongly about their Englishness (and many of them resent the Scots, for obvious reasons). I am happy to let the Scots have their independent country, but the English should have one also. And indeed, the Welsh.
Tom: 'Citizenship' is a European and American concept. Britishness is a nationality, i.e. what it says on your passport. But Englishness is also a nationality, which is exactly why we have this current mess.

English Perry, and Proud of it. Also member of UK.

Agree. Form filling is perhaps the most common and tangible evidence of the intrusion of state into personal domain. (It’s not as if ‘they’ haven’t got all this stuff already.)

This constant and dreary checking surely has the most bizarre and irritating, - possibly hazardous and personally damaging – results. It makes me angry and bloody-minded. I want to destroy or deface the things. Or write coarse comments about my hitherto private and uninvestigated aspects. And that might lead me into trouble when the thought and other kinds of police interview me for not conforming.

Would this be a reason to welcome ID cards? Seeking relief from form-filling, would one simply wave it at the machine or inspecting officers of the state, - for instance bin-persons, traffic wardens, politically correct compliance officers, global warming aficionados and others?

Water

I’m with Drummond on this my tick will always land in the box marked English (though it’s more likely to happen in attending a Tory conference), this said the national sense of identity as regards England (within Britain) is something that’s very hard to discern. Also this lack of identity is what attributes to the many rifts (and inter cultural qualms) that arise within society. For the Englishmen is something infinitely more complex (in this day and age of cultural cohesion) then a meagre pencil can solve, for it’s a lack of well certified nationalism (bar any sense of racism) that need to be invoked within England.

Paul B

I`m with the posters above who see no need to declare ones Nationality to be able to attend a party conference-its irrelevant.

I remember an old cricket commentator,( whose name escapes me now, but it was in the days when cricket was on the BEEB) being interviewed by Parkie. They were discussing South Africa, cricket Basil D`Olivera etc and the commentator said he had been asked his nationality by the SA authorities. His answer was that he was member of the human race. Struck me as very good answer. human race.

Trouble is many of our institutions have the same underlaying mindset as the old apartheid SA regime had, namely, wishing to divide society up (and define people) by racial groupings. Its a disgrace.

Nicholas

Pete of Scotland's comments are interesting and thought provoking. It seems that a Union break up is inevitable; another unexpected consequence of Labour's constitutional meddling.

If that happens I fear the Union's separate nations will be weaker under European rule and the strength of the United Kingdom, already eroded by this government, will be lost forever.

There may also be many unforeseen complications resulting in waste, confusion and expense. And stored troubles which will be with us for decades to come.

Frank Pulley

Britain died the day NuLab came to power and the only organ worth attempting to revitalise from the cadaver is England my England. However, as a realist I am bracing myself for the verdict that it may be too late.
Apologies James - but you have adopted this patch to live and work, so you must have some sympathy with those sentiments, even as a Scot or descendant thereof.

Brian W

My passport refers to me as a 'British Citizen'. My father was a border Scot and my mother was English although her mother may have had Australian connections, so British is probably the best non-specific description.

Water

I wouldn't say a union break up is inevitable (though possibilities are such things). This said there is certainly scope for a more articulated union (which ultimately would make for a more strengthened unification amongst the constituent parts).

Ian C

Oversight? I doubt it.

E Justice

These people have contaminated the word "British"and I for one am pleased, I am English ,i don't have to explain or apologize,to any one for being English ,especialy not the Labour Party,who must now realise we exist

Terry

"the special Labour conference that elected him leader"

Are you sure they "elected" him? I thought Brown doesn't do elections.

As for Brown claiming to be British, he's the one that's caused all this mess by pandering to Scots. I used to be be British, but since NuLabour's devolution, I'm definately English.

Johnny

I attended my local hospital out patients the other day . The lady at reception carefully apologised in advance and asked me my nationality "for the form".
I said English - 10 years ago it would have been British -and she wrote it down without demurr.

Johnny

I attended my local hospital out patients the other day . The lady at reception carefully apologised in advance and asked me my nationality "for the form".
I said English - 10 years ago it would have been British -and she wrote it down without demurr.

Margaret Stoll

I completely agree with Johnny. I have discovered in recent years (however late it may be!) that I am an English nationalist. I used to think I was British and I did not need any lessons in 'Britishness' from the Prime Minister. However, that definition - Britishness - while I cannot expunge it from my passport, I refuse it as often as I can. Reason: anyone and everyone can come here, need not even speak our language or make any attempt to learn it, can complete a superficial multiple-choice question and can be called 'British'.

Did anyone happen to see a Channel 4 programme on 22nd May about having a large family and wanting more. I was struck by the man from Burnley who has 11 children and no job - his joblessness he blamed on racist attitudes following 7/7 and 9/11. He immediately defined himself by his religion, as did his wife later (via an interpreter - she's been here long enough to have 11 children but still speaks no English). With people like that, who say they are British but immediately define themselves according to a religion, how can I be proud of being 'British' any longer?

Max Butler

Couldn't agree more, Margaret Stoll. These have been my feelings for a very long time.

Ian Patterson.

My wife was recently admitted to Aberdeen Royal Infirmary for surgery. While I have the upmost praise for her treatment, we were both offended by the question at reception "Are you Scottish?" to which she replied "No, British". Are the Scottish Nationalists going to introduce a two tier Health Service?