Britain's Goebbels moment

Stuart

So while the Muslim Council of Britain's Dr Bari has suggested that Muslims are the New Jews in a UK becoming more like the Nazis we find that a Muslim Islamist organisations like MPAC UK are positively gleeful at their own outing of Jews, just like in Nazi Germany. First they came for ........

wolf terner

It's time to officially drop the "Great" from Britain. That ship has long since left the dock, sinking into history. England has a long and inglorious history of anti-semitism. It must have something to do with the Saxon-German strain.The lastest series of postules are about to errupt. Time for the Jews to exit England again is now.

Anthony (Los Angeles)

Obviously the problem with Britain these days is that it's too close to the (In)Continent. I suggest moving the island several thousand miles west, where you can become part of Canada and recuperate for a while.

Gordon Ross

All this is to be expected. Anti-semitism is endemic in the UK. I encountered it at grammar school during the 1940s. It was rife! My non-Jewish fellow pupils obviously contracted the virus at home. Even some of the teachers were infected. It's nothing new! I and both my parents were born in this country, as was my father's father. My father was an under- age army volunteer during the first world war. So what!

rcotterill

i hope i is a conspiracy anything that helps israel survive its charmless neighbours is a bonus.

Maizy Doats

The Guardian made similar disgusting insinuations during Lord Levy's difficulties: The scandal has also thrown a rare shaft of light on to the private world of Lord Levy and his web of connections with business and charities. They show that many of the Labour lenders had initially been donors to Lord Levy's favourite charities, such as the Community Service Volunteers, Jewish Care and the NSPCC. Three of the 12 who gave Labour loans - Andrew Rosenfield, Barry Townsley and Sir David Garrard - are also patrons of Jewish Care. http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labour/story/0,,1739302,00.html

Guido Fawkes

I operate an arbitrary comment moderation policy. A lot of those distateful comments were deleted long before I was made aware of this article. A lot of the comments on my blog are distasteful whatever the subject. Where I draw the line is not where you might. Forinstance I actually think the Shirley Porter crack is mildly funny. When Prescott got into difficulties the abuse in my comments was a lot more vicious. Gordon Brown is abused with a level of hate that is off the scale every day. When it stops being offensive in the comments I'll stop. I see no reason to make an exception for Abrahams or Mendelsohn. I once wrote an article about you. It might be relevant. http://www.order-order.com/2006/03/mel-polly-on-anti-semitism.html

Jeremy Poynton

Oh dear. What tosh. Some folks like Jews, support a separate state for them - and Palestine - yet abhor Zionism. That does NOT make them anti-semitic, Melanie, but then ... people read things the way they want to, don't they?

J. Isaacs

Methinks Guido is a bit narked at Melanie Phillips having revealed the intrinsic weakness of his "arbitrary (and consequently anti-semite friendly) moderation policy". It is also a bit rich of him to criticise Melanie Phillips for devoting too much attention to British anti-semitism, an issue of our time, while himself, the blogger of plots and conspiracies, revealing the activities of Gordon the Bogeyman picking his nose in Parliament(admittedly very funny)as his scoop of the year.

Shy Guy

There's always room for you here in Israel, Ms. Phillips. How long do you give British Jewry before Londonistan becomes unbearable? I say 5-7 years.

Tim Ireland

To 'Guido': Paul, it's unfair of you to imply via the inclusion of that link that Melanie is imagining anti-semitism when you yourself have deleted the comments carrying on about "the Jews". It also needs to be pointed out that your recent claim that you never write what you believe to be true is inconsistent with your 'abitrary' comment policy; by continuing to allow an open-door policy on comments (and only ever switching on moderation when you yourself are at risk) you continually *publish* many things that you know not to be true. (MODS: if the previous version of this comment was removed for good reason, please do share it.)

N. Simon

Shy Guy, I suggest all British Jews leave the UK within the next three years. The Jews of Britain have already learned some painful lessons over the last 1200 years.

The UK will eventually become an Islamic state with shariah law. Who wants to live as a dhimmi?

Stuart

As was established at the Stepehen Lawrence enquiry the definition of a racist attack lies with the victim. Of course we all know of words or subjects to avoid when speaking about Black people but that sensitivity doesn't seem to apply to Jews because its often couched in the word "Zionist". You must leave the determination of what is Antisemitic and what is not to someone who would know. I can think of many Antisemitic jokes that are mildly funny but that doesn't stop them being inspired by Antisemitism and stereotyping of Jews. Is it Jews who threaten to blow up UK citizens if we don't change Foreign Policy or Jews who protest about Der Sturmer-like cartoons, threatening the artists? Is it Jews who would jail a woman for calling a Teddy Bear Moses? Are Jews to be villified for reaching the higher echelons of business, commerce, law, business and politics starting from a low base and through their own endeavour? The hate is irrational.

John

You are correct that the article in the Telegraph is nonsense. I suspect it was leaked by labour spin themselves to shift the blame as usual (e.g. Dr Kelly). Far from being in any way Jewish this scandal goes to the roots of corrupt Labour politicians in Newcastle. Someone should make a complaint to the Press Council over there leader.

Martin Bright

The Telegraph story was indeed bizarre. I stupidly assumed they had some evidence of an individual behind Abrahams. It was only when I went for lunch with someone from the Jewish Chronicle that I realised how anti-Semitic the story was. The Telegraph story only makes sense when you factor in the completely bonkers idea that the international Zionist conspiracy was at work here. The weird thing is that in the 9/11 version of the theory global Zion conspired to get its people out of trouble. Here they seem to have conspired to get them into it.

Adam Khan

In America, an underlying myth of the majority culture concering Black men is of their taking -- and possibly murdering -- white women. Which is why the OJ Simpson trial was so arresting.

In northern Europe, the underlying myth concerning Jews is -- like it or not -- of cabals of influence. Any story that smacks of this is going to resonate and play, particularly in press-savvy Britain.

How to dissipate this age-old myth? Not overnight. Lots of TV and movies probably. Also, if more Britons visited Israel, perhaps they'd acquire a view of Jews that is less mysterious and bizarre.

John Turner

Where is this 'Londonistan' that you speak of? It's not a place I recognise, and it's surely a bit rich coming from Phillips, who is the embodiment of the London Media Elite.

SamG

This kind of false connection is similar to the Guinness affair - Saunders, Ronson et al. It seels that a story with 2 jews is coincidence, 3 is a conspiracy. It makes it so much easier for those who look for these 'connections' to swallow.

jill

Hmm, you know what, if they think that Jews and Zionists are out to control the world, I say let's go for it. Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb. let's make their paranoia actually mean something goddammit! Sure we're only 15 000 000 versus over a billion Muslims, 800,000 Hindus and a whole bunch of assorted Christians, secular atheists and idiots, but hey! Who's earned most of the Nobel Prizes? Jews! Let's use all that expertise for something aside from benefiting humanity! Let's talk ostentatiously in mysterious code in front of them! Send MPACUK a parcel of gefilte fish with a herring in the shape of the Magen David and a microchip yodelling "Bwahahahaa! Habibi! We know where you live!" Even better, make a mamaliga effigy of the Palestinian flag AND EAT IT in Piccadilly Circus! YOu know what I'm saying people! More ideas! These are but the tip of a very large iceberg... You get the drift.

Nigel

A rather poor entry from Mel - blogs about blogs are surely the definition of the Internet eating itself. This is, at best, sloppy opinionism. More quality control in the Spectator, please.

Lynne T

"Mr Abrahams is described by friends as a ‘secretive’ person who spends little money on himself but likes to rub shoulders with the great and the good at political and charity events. " Funny. Framed a little differently, Mr. Abrahams doesn't sound terribly different from the late Kenneth Thomson, former head of the Thomson Corp. and 2nd generation head of Canada's richest family. Thomson was known for buying day old bread, community philanthropy (primarily the arts), influencing the political scene from a reasonably discreet distance and otherwise leading a fairly private life. Thomson, however, was not Jewish, so such qualities are deemed a good thing in him.

Gordon Ross

Jeremy Poynton, 'Zionism' is simply the movement for the right of the Jewish people to national redemption and self-determination in our ancestral homeland, after some 2000 years of national exile. These rights are parallel to those so fervently championed on behalf of all manner of divers peoples throughout the world. What, therefore, is there to "abhor" in Zionism, unless you wish to deny these rights to the Jewish people! If you do, what could be more anti-Semitic i.e anti-Jewish than that!

Actually ...

If you don't like the "Goebbels moment" moment at the Telegraph, why do you stay working for the Spectator (sister paper of the Telegraph)?

David Saxon

How sad! Instead of this being all about Labour hypocrisy and corruption, it has now become all about Jews. Option 1: take the heat off Labour and blame it on the Jews. Option 2: take the heat off Labour and blame it all the wicked, anti-semitic British people. Frankly, there is only one thing that puzzles me about this affair and Jews. Perhaps someone could explain it to me. That is why on earth should any Jew be so keen to pour vast amounts of money into Labour coffers? Labour is suffering from chronic Islamophilia and most of its supporters are rabidly anti-Israel. Perhaps I am hopelessly naive, but I would have thought any rational Jew would be doing everything in his power to help the British people rid themselves of the menace that stalks the corridors of power in Westminster.

Barry Larking

Every day that passes I feel more Jewish. Try reading any of the above and write 'English' or 'Scottish' where 'Jewish' appears and one can see though this tosh for what it is. I once helped at an event for World Jewish Relief, and enjoyed it. Unfortunately the Jews alongside me seemed a very quarrelsome lot to each other. I had any thoughts of worldwide 'Jewish control' rudely vanquished before my eyes.

Small groups are frequently resented for 'influence' and 'power' (rather less 'abilities').

mercurius pragmaticus

would those quotes from Cyclops on Guido Fawkes be the same cyclops that Guido banned. Admit it, Guido's coverage has been light-years ahead of you so called professionals.

Ahad Ha'amoratzim

Jeremy Poynton -- How on earth can one "like Jews, support a separate state for them - and Palestine - yet abhor Zionism?" By definition, anyone who supports the idea of a national state for Jews is a Zionist. People who do not like Jews have turned Zionist into a dirty word. When you hear it used as a dirty word, you have a pretty good idea that you are talking to someone who is either ignorant of the word's meaning, or worse.

Stuart

Well, maybe MPAC UK aren't all that bad http://theymadeitup.squarespace.com/the-latest-news-and-discussion/mpac-uk-a-peaceful-yom-kippur-and-well-over-the-fast.html

J. Isaacs

I wonder why Guido Fawkes has not yet eaten his words. He really should begin a new plot- excavation. This time a two-pronged attack might be a winner. And he could brush away all comments with a flick of the fingers. But maybe this is not a matter for poking fun.

spooner

Thanks to Melanie for drawing my attention to Guido Fawkes' blog. I wasn't aware of it until now, but it's an excellent read! Somebody give this man a job at the Spectator pronto.

Margaret, London

If I wanted to read the rantings of hysterical anti-Semites (and I don't), then no doubt a quick Google would find them for me. I do not expect a journalist on a respected journal to substitute such cut-and-paste for proper analysis. Does she know anything new or illuminating about the substantive scandal (for scandal it undoubtedly is)? No. Are potential links between key figures in a scandal a valid subject for journalistic investigation? Yes. (Just as much as if they were members of the same Lodge, golf club or shared a mistress.) That these links might lead to Israel seems unlikely but not impossible. Does Ms Phillips have any concrete information one way or the other? No. All that happens with such anguished cries of "anti-Semitism", as with those of "Islamaphobia", is that some subterranean drivel (not even a blog but comment on a blog) is raised to the level of Spectator readers' notice – without a single valid journalistic contribution except to say that the drivel is drivel. Yes, well, we can see that. The question of Israeli involvement is not one that had crossed my mind before however I will now, of course, bear it in mind as I watch any further developments in the story with interest. Well done Ms Phillips.

Margaret, London

Can I also just ask whether the fairly current kerfuffle about the over-representation of Scots in the British Parliament and Cabinet is a valid political debate or a racist outrage?

phil

Why do you bother? MELANIE -THE PEOPLE WHO HATE jEWS WILL CONTINUE TO. NO MATTER WHAT OTHERS SAY and those that have common sense do not need telling how sick these people are .If Jews do something good they ignore it and when a Jew is involved in something controversial,they jump at every opportunity to castigate them .I dont know what all the fuss is about-the man gave money anonymously to to his party-he didnt steal it -why?i have no real idea ,nor do I care -what I really want is for these politicians to do something about the health service ,transport etc and not spend their time on witch hunts to score points over each other-they seem more bothered about getting each other into some scandal than looking after us -do they need to know any more as to why we dont vote ?

Philip, Perthshire

Indeed Margaret you are welcome to debate the over-representation of Scots in the UK parliament and cabinet. But did you complain at the time about the introduction of the Poll Tax one year early in Scotland as well as the decimation of Scottish industry in the 80s? Did you see a problem in Scotland continually voting for a non-Conservative party for Westminster and continually getting a Conservative one? Lastly can I invite you to Scotland to watch Reporting Scotland - the 6.30 "local" news - and bear witness to the number of English people (judging by accent) who appear to be the major beneficiaries of the best public service jobs in Scotland, you know, that overmighty public sector which the English taxpayer is subsidising? Perhaps a little education might do you some good rather than weighing in on an issue which has very little to do with Melanie's post here.

James Kiernan

Would Melanie Phillips still be quite so sanguine if all the protagonists in the Labour (illegal) funding affair had been Muslims and members of the "Palestine Solidarity Campaign"?

Dr. Irene Lancaster FRSA

The rants on Guido Fawkes fall into the EU cateogry of antisemitism. Scots are not at risk of being beaten up in England every time Scotland does something that the English don't like. Every time Israel does something that England doesn't like, more Jews get beaten up. Parliament (made up of loads of Scots, inter alia) has stated the above as fact. We don't need the EU however. Jews appear to be the only people who are not allowed to suggest that anyone (other than Nazis of course) are antisemitic. In England it's more of a crime to accuse someone of antisemitism than to be antisemitic. Which is why I left for Israel - last year. Couldn't accept the censorship going on in the education system for one, or the appeasement of Islam for another. The Oxford Union debacle is just the last straw. And if you think it's about freedom of speech, just imagination a debate with people who dislike blacks or Muslims as much as they hate Jews. http://irenelancaster.typepad.com/

Nigel

Sorry Irene, I think I missed something. Where exactly in England are 'Jews being beaten up'? Oh that's right - nowhere.

Efi G

Hello, I am from Israel and this is my opinion of this story. For Jews who live among Christians, this has always been a problem. It comes from the fact that Christianity has brainwashed Christians into thinking that Jews killed their man-god. Now, after all the centuries of Christian persecution, they still have this fear and hatred of Jews in their minds. I would advise Jews still living in Europe to stop putting up with this backward bigotry and come on home to Israel. Stop putting up with this, you have options you know! Realize: Anti-Semitism will always exist in Europe. So start packing and come home to Israel.

Mike

Gordon Ross. You are quite wrong about your interpretation of 'self determination'. It should mean that people have a right to determine their own future and their own affairs. Unfortunately you appear to view self-determination in its worst sense, meaning an ethnic sense. As a self-declared Zionist you should know that Zionism has never been a movement for the defence of the Jewish religion. Far from it, many of the most religious Jews abhor it. Nor in defence of some cultural identity. When the Zionist movement began Jews had no common language, nor common traditions. Therefore Zionism advocated not so much a defence of an ethnic group but to form one, and as we all know Palestine became the place for this ethnic grouping to take shape. A place where those who fitted a certain semi-racial category could find refuge. Those who didn't fit into this ethnic category had no place. Each of us has a right to live somewhere but no ethnic grouping has a right to live somewhere - together, to the exclusion of everyone else! This is what Jews tried so desperately to escape from in the late 1930's, and which deservedly has held so much of the world's sympathy and understanding ever since.

J. Isaacs

"spooner" by name and spooner by nature. You must have a large olfactory cavity. Nigel-you need to stop paying your tellytax to the BBC and take out a Jewish Chronicle subscription instead. Read Melanie Phillips' archive while you are about it, together with reports from the Community Security Trust.

Dr. Irene Lancaster FRSA

Nigel - don't you read the papers or watch the BBC? Since 9/11 there has been a year upon year increase in violence against Jews in Britain, plus an increase in antisemitic discourse, especially at universities. The Channel 4 programme: The War on Britain's Jews' also featured this phenomenon. My rabbi was beaten up in broad daylight in a middle class part of Manchester and rabbis have also been beaten up in north London. How dare you suggest that I'm a liar.

Nigel

Irene, people are beaten up all the time in North London and Manchester. I suspect that being Jewish has nothing to do with it. Please don't cry wolf.

Dr. Irene Lancaster

In the past, Orthodox Jews in distinctive dress were not beaten up accompanied to cries of 'Get out of Iraq' and 'Go home yids'. Nigel is symptomatic of the type of attitude of people who pretend not to notice what is going on in front of his very eyes. Reminds me of Germany in the early 1930s, an era I used to teach about at Manchester University, by the way. Yes, it could happen in Britain as well. That is one of the conclusions of the Holocaust. Germany was the best-educated country in Europe at the time. Nigel, may I suggest you take a course on appeasement at Yad Vashem in Jerusalem. They would probably welcome you with open arms.

Boris Yeltsin

Ah yes, the Global Zionist Conspiracy©. Not bad for a group of people - if you include all the Jews alive - that make up something like 0.24% of the world's population (and that's assuming every single last Jew, even the self-hating, hand-wringing, apologist, enviro-weenie leftists and babies &c., is a Zionist). And coupled with the fact that only a handful of angry racists seem to realise it, it is, in fact, amazing (not to mention impossible), so I say this: I'm glad for the Global Zionist Conspiracy©. To pull something like that off would take a lot of timetravel, mindrays and invisibility devices, and that kind of advanced, contravening-of-the-laws-of-physics technology that is laudable for a group of people to've invented and used for decades, again, without anybody but a bunch of angry racists realising it. So, let's pretend that Zionism is magically something more - and oh so much more nefarious - than the creation and support of a Jewish homeland in the Middle East (which it isn't) for a moment, and all raise our glasses to the Global Zionist Conspiracy©. I for one am pleased to be part of the team. Anti-Semitism, sanitised by being called 'Anti-Zionism', is alive and well in Britain. It's the oldest game in town, and even reducing the world Jewish population of another quarter isn't going to change it.

Gordon Ross

Mike, Oh it's you again! Incidentally, since you have claimed that there are Zionists who are reluctant to identify themselves as such, why are you so reluctant to disclose your full name on your posts! On "Many of the most religious Jews abhor it (Zionism)", there are a small minority of fanatics e.g.Nuterie Karta who hold that we must wait for the 'moschiach'(messiah)to arrive before we can re-establish our national state in the Land of Israel, but there are plenty of 'religious' Zionists around, as well as the 'secular' ones. "...Jews had no common language, nor common traditions." What nonsense! Ancient Hebrew was our common language, but in the diaspora became reserved for prayer, since in order to try to integrate among their 'host' nations, Jews had to learn the 'host' languages. The common traditions were and are those of our religion and our history in the Land of Israel. They have been followed and adhered to wherever we have been scattered. ""Palestine" (a name invented by the Roman Emperor, Hadrian) became the place..." because that is where we are from (and have been told so many times in the past to go back to!), and we have no claim to a state in any other part of the world. Our 'host'nations have generally regarded and treated us as "a nation within a nation". As for "...no ethnic grouping has a right to live somewhere - together, to the exclusion of everyone else!", that is the very 'cause' you and your friends champion on behalf of your "Palestinians"; and what about their Arab brothers in their umpteen other states, whose policy is "the exclusion of everyone else", especially Jews, as witness the 800,000 or so, those other refugees, who have had to flee from those states! You ought to come clean and categorically declare your support for Saeb Erekat's claim that there is no Jewish people, a claim now echoed by Mahmoud Abbas, the Arab world and your fellow-travellers!

Mike

Gordon Ross: Since I expect any argument I put forward to be challenged by you, (although I do wish you would stop taking my views out of context, and be a little more precise before deliberately misquoting same), let’s see how you deal with this. Read on. You will always be in denial of the truth about this conflict either because you can't face it, or don't know how to. Sovereignty was the right of the Palestinians, of the inhabitants of Palestine, not of the settlers who came with the express purpose of establishing an ethnic state that could reasonably be seen as a mortal threat to the Palestinians, and as a grievous assault on their rights. The Palestinians were right not to make any concessions to the Zionists, and since the Zionists wouldn't abandon their project, compromise wasn't possible. The last real opportunity to peace arose in 1967 after Israel's conquest of the Occupied Territories. The Palestinians made concessions they did not have the right to make, but this opportunity fell away because of the extremist settler movement and the policies that supported, nurtured and sustained it. Quite rightly, and by any rational judgment, Palestinians continue to resist this threat, and their violence is justifiable. They are defending themselves against dispossession and the intolerable life forced upon them. The settler movement is based upon pseudo-Biblical foolishness, bad history, greed and an ethnic superiority that deserves no tolerance, consideration or respect. Israel could have peace and a vastly increased security tomorrow if it chooses - it has all the options, and the Palestinians none. Given these circumstances I think you should understand that no one, Jewish or non-Jewish should support Israel. That is not to say it shouldn’t or doesn’t exist and any argument about this is pointless. Israel does exist, it’s a political fact. So let’s stop this gratuitous rubbish which suggests otherwise.

Stephen

I don't often agree with Melanie Phillips but this nasty anti-semitic outburst is worrying. I was shocked by the proposed ban on academic contact with Israel. Well done Melanie for highlighting this disturbing outbrake.

JJ

" N. Simon November 30th, 2007 10:49am Shy Guy, I suggest all British Jews leave the UK within the next three years. The Jews of Britain have already learned some painful lessons over the last 1200 years. The UK will eventually become an Islamic state with shariah law. Who wants to live as a dhimmi"? You can leave if you want to. We should stay here and fight. Besides, were do you want to go?

Gordon Ross

Mike, how you do avoid the issues and what a lot of bosh and contradictory drivel you come out with, like "...no-one, Jewish or non-Jewish should support Israel. That is not to say that it shouldn't....exist..." ! The simple facts are that,like your Arab friends, you deny the existence of the Jewish people, and therefore deny the right of the Jewish nation state to exist, so why not admit it, shortly and sweetly, instead of rambling on in your usual disjointed and inaccurate manner ! Apart from the fact that there is little point in continuing an argument with someone as screwed up as you are, I shall be travelling and will not have the time to indulge further. Oh, and you still won't disclose your full name. What, I wonder, are you afraid of !

Turner

A point for Irene Lancaster: I suspect many more working-class (and dare I say it - black) teenagers are victims of street violence than the Jewish community. But, by and large, we don't hear about it in the press, because it's just such a normal, everyday occurence. Please stop playing the victim.

Mike

Gordon Ross: Travel safely and I look forward to your return. But before you go. At no time have I ever said 'the Jewish people don't exist'. That is the whole point of any contribution I make to Melanie's controversial blogs. If you didn't exist I would have nothing to contribute on these matters. I would go so far as to say that you, and people who think like you, are doing a great disservice to the Jewish people. I stand full square behind the views expressed by the Independent Jewish Voices, and before you rush to another tirade I would urge you to visit http://www.ijv.org.uk/ and let me know, if you wish, what you find wrong with what they believe and say.

Irene Lancaster

A point to Turner: the subject matter of the blog was the Jewish community, not the black community. However, when I took a case (which I subsequently won) against Manchester LEA for antisemitic practices, the two black employees of the CRE, who helped me with the case, bemoaned the fact that more members of the Jewish public didn't come forward to use their services. It's a very common ploy to underplay antisemitism by referring to other groups. And by the way, everyone knows about racism against blacks and 'Asians', whereas attacks on Jews go unreported in most of the Press. Which is why it's good that we have blogs, isn't it?

Michael Grayeff

So what's wrong with the World Jewish Conspiracy??? We are 0.2% of the world's population but rule the universe. The Arabs, on the other hand, own 50% of the world's oil reserves and could't organise a woodpeckers' breakfast in Sherwood Forest.

Herman Mansell

We should now call the Prime Minister ALI BABA, and we may have to increase the number of thieves from the age old figure of 40.

John Somebody

The fundamental point that no zionists seem to ponder on, is that any nation state which depends on ethnic "cleansing", let alone genocidal acts of ethnic "cleansing" to exist, has no right to exist. And every human who believes in the principle, "never again", has a duty to oppose neo- natzi state practitioners of genocide. This does not make honourable Jews into self haters. It makes them non hypocrites.