Lost in the Maze

alan stoddart

You just have no respect for the cogent and rational views of the Chairman of the MCB Melanie: “But some police officers and sections of the media are demonising Muslims, treating them as if they're all terrorists — and that encourages other people to do the same. If that demonisation continues, then Britain will have to deal with two million Muslim terrorists — 700,000 of them in London," It is a well known fact that if you arrest 'x' for burglary his whole family then come and burgle your house. Perhaps Salman Rushdie will be forced into writing another 'Satanic Verses' as he is clearly being demonised by another head honcho at the MCB, Sir Iqbal Sacranie: "Death, perhaps, is a bit too easy for him .. his mind must be tormented for the rest of his life unless he asks for forgiveness to Almighty Allah."

elixelx

Nothing new here, Melanie! I watch "Dateline LOndon" regularly, every Sunday, on BBC international, and in 4 1/2 years I think I have seen but TWICE people who have been prepared to defend Israel or America from the entire slew of Arab talking heads, AT LEAST ONE EVERY WEEK, who are prepared to excoriate Israel and America for all the world's woes! This is not to even mention forums like "The Doha Debates" where, in the face of tons of evidence to the contrary, audiences will vote against ANY MOTION that might slightly favour Israel or America. Aren't you beginning to feel the pull of Aliyah? There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE!

sebastian

But Melanie, the Home Office is correct (one of those rare instances): speaking the truth to muslims will alienate them. So...instead........we lie to keep the peace. Through deception, self-delusion, mendacity, flattery and appeasement we soothe muslim instincts for segregation and overthrow. So is this it then? Our national strategy for unity and integration? Straight from the Home Office? I fear it is. What truly nauseating, insulting, shallow and ill-considered folly.

john doe

'Terrifying' indeed Melanie. I've always admired your tenacity and courage in the face of such perverse and wilful ignorance, such darkness. I don't know how you manage to retain your composure in the midst of this den of lions. It's the first time I've heard you use such a word. I guess you are feeling genuine trepidation in the face of evil. Time to get out?

K. Illemall

I listened to the programme last evening, and I share your deep concerns. Some of the views expressed were quite frightening, in my view. It does indeed appear that the lunatics have allowed the fanatics to take over the asylum. Thank you for speaking up for the silent majority.

Sarah

I didn’t know which witness to be more angry at. The last witness, Dr Richard Jackson of Aberystwyth University, took the biscuit for lunacy. I urge other posters to listen to his ludicrous arguments - this now passes for "academia". Well done for standing up for yourself at the end when Clifford Langley tried to put words in your mouth. What's so sad is that we're the only country in the world that grovels and grovels and grovels like this. If this is what things are like now, where will be in 10 years?

Rob Grey

's Truth Melanie, this must be the most appaling MM that has ever been broadcast. "Terrifying" is not a strong enough word but I cannot think of an alternative. And, John, it it is NOT a den of lions - it is a den of craven snivelling hyenas. Dr (mind you) Jackson and Clifford Longley sprouted the some of the most dispicable craven cant I think I have ever heard. The one pompo-academic/scientific the other pompo-humanitarian cum religeose. After these, what next? After these, the Savage God.

Austin Barry

Frankly, I wouldn't be too concerned about how and for what fugitive reasons our elites like to refer to Islamic terrorism. Everyone else knows what is going on and, for the most part, will call it exactly what it is.

David

Melanie, I am beginning to sound like a scratched gramophone record but I must repeat what I have said to you many times before. You must go into politics. The country needs leadership with clarity of thought and vision and with unquestionable integrity. There is no better person for the job than yourself. Melanie, your country needs you.

field

Glad to see you have posted on this. Here's what I wrote on another thread: "I heard some of the Moral Maze where the subject of suicide bombing came up. I am not sure Melanie how you deal with the sort of brazeness on display from the representative from the Islamic Society of Britain who was claiming that Qaradawi - who has backed suicide bombings in Israel and Iraq - was in a minority of one among mainstream Islamic scholars! News to me and I am sure anyone else who has taken an interest in the subject. I am not sure what the word for that sort of statement is but I may know what letter it begins with...No doubt you have an inkling as well but it is difficult to deal with that sort of statement in the context of what is supposed to be an honest exchange of views. And wasn't it typical the way he kicked off clearly outraged that you should dare to have a view on Islamic teaching - as though most Muslims don't have a view on Christian and Jewish teaching (namely, that it is a corruption of the original teaching of God)! It would be interesting to have a post from you giving some further views on the programme, which I heard only in part." It is indeed pretty frightening that such levels of self-delusion should rule among our intellectual elite and our rulers. The Australian bloke sounded quite demented in his determination to convince us that these suicide bombers (contrary to every video we've ever seen) are atheist or non-religious! Of course some of our elite and rulers aren't self-deluded, but think they are being clever. They are not. Appeasement is not always wrong - if you are incredibly weak and facing a powerful enemy it can be justified. But appeasement in this case has absolutely no justification at all - it simply makes the problem worse in every respect, not least by encouraging Muslims to remain self-deluded about various aspects of their culture. What the UK has to do is to expect its Muslim citizens to adhere to basic standards of respect for the law, democracy, equality for women, tolerance and free speech. We need to do so vigorously in all areas. The fact that the UK itself has provided ammunition for the Islamists by consorting with dictators, oppressors of women, terrorists and others abroad is a shaming fact, but should not distract us from the right policy.

Alan Stoddart

Just seen Rowan Williams comments on adopting Sharia. There is an old Arab proverb: Once the camel gets its nose in the tent the rest will surely follow. If you legitimise Sharia in part then it will not be long before the rest follows and all that entails...Muslim only areas etc..or should that be no-go areas?

Maven

Interesting that Qaradawi is now banned and leaders of the Muslim community are arguing "What message does this send to the Muslims Community". Well it tells them that we won't tolerate racist and sexist hate speech from someone called the most respected Islamic Scholar. I suspect this is some buy-off for having to put up with censoring the dictionary and removing certain words and phrases.

kate b

I agree; I hate this twisting of words. A phobic has an irrational fear of something. My fear of Islam is based upon reading the given texts of the Qur'an and Hadeeth. Mohammed was given a revised version which makes for even more frightening reading when you know that it is the version dished out to the children of the 56 Islamic states. Am I allowed to say that its tenets call for the genocide of all but Muslims or is that not p.c. enough. I have nothing aginst Muslims, I have everything against their scriptures; this doesn't make me Islamophobic.

Frank

Poll after poll of Muslim opinion, even in matters such as the London Bombings, show that the extremists, especially amongst the young, are a frighteningly sizeable minority and not the 'tiny' one we keep hearing about. And, one might guess, this number would be topped up a bit by those who, with the same goals, would consider it unexpedient at the moment to express extreme opinion. Unless we can look squarely at the facts, and are allowed to debate these in public, frustrations in inter-community relationships in this country will only grow worse. Perceptive Muslims will also realise this and should feel at liberty to say so.

d1carter

Melanie: Please keep up the good work. Although, I fear Britain is lost, please keep trying.

Stephen

Kate B is quite right in pointing out the way that language is twisted against anyone who challenges Islamic scriptures. How can you be phobic when you're pointing out exactly what makes you frightened? The other line that's used is that some non-Muslims have a "fear of the other" as if it's some unknown quantity we're talking about. It is not, we've got our Islamic scriptures and our history books and we know just where all this appeasement is leading. As for that pudding brain Rowan Williams...

J. Isaacs

Also just heard the Archbishop of Cant proposing to accept more Sharia law in the UK. Would be grateful if Melanie Phillips could write about what this would mean for non-Muslims.

Jeremy Poynton

Actually, I don't know a soul who any longer believes a word issued by any government body, official or quango. I don't know anyone who feels represented by any arm of government, so all-in-all, a latter-day Guido Fawkes would seem to me to be the best approach to restoring our destroyed democracy.

YA

David: "Melanie, You must go into politics".+++! On Sharia - there are 2 options, first is French - to ban it completely, separate church and state, and enforce this, as a law. Not sure here in the UK politicians can grow balls of that size. Second option is Israeli - and Archbisop's; actually Muslim minority in Israel, which also represents ethnic minority, is separated from the rest of population much stronger than any Archbisop can imagine. As a result, Israeli Arabs live quite different (and quite schizophrenic) national life. Yes this is apartheid, and the only perspective for peaceful existence is cantonization of the country. That awaits Israel. It looks like this is also what any of all these people who only can talk in many words, have in mind for UK's future. But again, Israeli option isn't necessary. Hostile minority aren't 20% here, and war goes on in Afghanistan not ten miles from Westminster. One can still arrange combined pressure of economic, cultural and law enforcmement measures, to isolate, contain and eventually undo Sharia.

osama

What Islamic rule really means: 'I expect our Christian neighbors to understand the new Hamas rule means real changes. They must be ready for Islamic rule if they want to live in peace in Gaza," said Sheik Abu Saqer, leader of Jihadia Salafiya, an Islamic outreach movement that recently announced the opening of a "military wing" to enforce Muslim law in Gaza. Jihadia Salafiya is suspected of attacking a United Nations school in Gaza last month, after the school allowed boys and girls to participate in the same sporting event. One person was killed in that attack. "The situation has now changed 180 degrees in Gaza," said Abu Saqer, speaking from Gaza yesterday. "Jihadia Salafiya and other Islamic movements will ensure Christian schools and institutions show publicly what they are teaching to be sure they are not carrying out missionary activity. No more alcohol on the streets. All women, including non-Muslims, need to understand they must be covered at all times while in public," Abu Asqer told WND. "Also the activities of Internet cafes, pool halls and bars must be stopped," he said. And if not, if any of these activities of normal every day life continue without reaching the Islamic outreach leader's standard of approval, "...we'll attack these things very harshly."

N.Richardson

I can't wait to hear Melanie's view of Rowan Williams suggestion that Sharia Law is inevitable in the UK.

alan stoddart

American woman arrested by Saudi religious police for sitting in Starbucks with an unrelated male...her business colleague. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3321637.ece

field

Just when you thought that only the lunatics were allowed to run the asylum - along comes the Archbishop: to demonstrate that a fuzzy-brained beardie in a mitre can out-loon even the most determined of madmen. I think I did hear him say that you can't have the law applying equally to everyone. Of course not because that would be like - well, law really. I too wish to hear what Melanie has to say. Of course, she has to address also the issue of Orthodox Jewish courts. Islamic propagandists often cite tolerance of such Jewish practices and institutions. My own view is that we should have laws which make absolutely clear all such religious courts -Jewish, Muslim or otherwise - have no standing in our country, that to suggest they do should be an offence and that they should be required to record all their proceedings and forward them to the state so that we can ensure they are not breaking any offences by their rulings. We need to get serious about defending our democracy.

korova

Melanie speaks, twenty odd sheep BAAA in unison. The lunatics are certainly running the asylum and the sheep are still most definitely at the forefront of the establishment.

Blue_and_White_Avenger

Oy field, hold yer horses. You obviously don't understand what a Jewish Court (JC) does or is empowered to do UNDER ENGLISH LAW. The JC is empowered under a law from ? 1950? allowing it to act as an independent arbitrator. So in the case of 2 Jews in conflict, who agree to be bound by the JC and its decision then this IS English law, upheld by British courts. Additionally, and most importantly, a major tenet of Jewish law is "The Law of the Land IS the Law". Any comparison of Jewish Law and what the Moslems do I find repugnant.

Dr. Irene Lancaster

I use the Moral Maze as part of an English lesson I give to a brilliant Russian immigrant to Haifa, actually from Siberia. Read all about her reaction to last night's broadcast here: http://irenelancaster.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/02/how-appeasement.html The academic on the panel was dreadful, but no different than the majority we have to put up with at British universities. No wonder that an academic at one of Britain's best universities (I have promised not to reveal their identity, or that of the university, in case of repercussions) telephoned me in Haifa a couple of days ago and said that they were leaving the country. They just could not go on teaching in an atmosphere of, on the one hand, appeasement of militant Islam and, on the other, the demonisation of Jews.

field

Blue and White - Yes I wasn't aware of the status of Jewish courts under UK law - whether they did or did not have formal recognition. I was aware of some special laws for Jews when we had Sunday closing (allowing them to have the Jewish Sabbath alternatively). They may still exist for all I know. I am quite clear. In order to save our democracy I want to see all such "special" laws swept away. Their rulings should have no force at all in law. There is no other way to save and preserve our democracy.

Nicholas Millman

In most aspects of our daily lives dealing with government, local government and the corporate world the default position seems to have become that we are all potential fraudsters who must prove our bona fides in various ways before being able to conduct our normal business. This inconvenience of jumping through various hoops has been imposed by the rise in actual fraud - so the honest majority are inconvenienced by the dishonest minority. Yet, despite the fact that the whole world has been inconvenienced by over 40 years of the most violent, extreme and outrageous Islamic terrorism I find it strange that no inconveniences are imposed on the majority in that case. That community needs to put its house in order and I cannot see it being done without the imposition of sanctions of inconvenience upon that community. In pleading for tolerance the appeasers are in danger of bringing about the destruction of the very freedom their position represents. Sometimes in life you need to take a stand. Sometimes survival means that niceties must be put to one side. Is it really only 70 years since Munich, Chamberlain and appeasement?

Christopher Chantrill

Of course, in the old days Britain had two parallel systems of justice, common law and equity, until the Victorians came along and reformed them into a single system in the nineteenth century. But there's no need to tell the Archbishop that. I doubt if he would understand.

Rose Geranium

I posted a link to this blog entry on the BBC Message Board, the Muslim Topic. It was censored: ie, removed. Says everything, doesn't it? I have reposted the link to see whether it is removed again.(My message 70 has been removedand is currently not showing.) Also see my message 74: <<... Note to Mods: 1. This is entirely relevant to the Muslim topic 2. This is a link to a page of the Spectator and it is within BBC rules to post such a link. 3. Please explain why my previous post giving the link was modded: I am assuming this was by a person who disliked the link and post because it clearly showed what was wrong with Rowan Williams' speech and appearance on the BBC re the introduction of Sharia law in the UK. The fact the post was modded speaks volumes.>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbreligion/F2213236?thread=5075652&skip=60&show=20 Rose

Merv Benson

What is happening is a response to the victim offensive by the enemy rather than the objectives of his attacks. The objective of the enemy is Islamic supremacy. That is the purpose of the violence. The excuse for the violence is some perceived victimization of Muslims by those who resist Islamic supremacy. It is a mistake to pander to the victim offensive, because by doing so you are retreating in the battle against Islamic supremacy. The victim offensive is a common tactic by the Islamic supremacist where ever they are found. Hezballah and Hamas use it often to justify their violations of the Geneva Conventions. It is also a part of the enemy propaganda in the media battle space. The best way to deal with it is to identify it as such and remind people of all the manufactured victim campaigns like the one at Jenin and the video of the boy supposedly killed by Israel. What the government of the UK is proposing is surrender to the enemy strategy. There are better ways of proving you are not the enemy of Muslims who are not Islamic supremacist. It will come as a surprise to many, but we are doing that now in Iraq where the population is no longer fooled by the enemy. One police chief said, "In Anbar province everyone will tell you he hates al Qaeda. You can go into the desert and find a shepherd who will tell you that he hates al Qaeda. You can come back in a hundred years and talk to a shepherd and he will tell you he hates al Qaeda." It is unfortunate that in the UK, many have still not learned that level of understanding of the enemy.

Zaider

Rose, I could give you a whole chapter and verse about the BBC censoring links to some of Melanie's discussions. Its to do with some of Melanie's exposes of Antisemitic hate that the participants have engaged in and their double-standards.

David

Do keep up the hard..but good work Melanie. I fear its too late for Britain....it's 'America Alone'

Allan Sharp

David February 7th, 2008 1:02pm Melanie, I am beginning to sound like a scratched gramophone record but I must repeat what I have said to you many times before. You must go into politics. Hmmm... which party? Cameron's Cons (pardon the French), Brown's Labour, or the LibDhims? There is one party would have Melanie - but she wouldn't have them!

phil

Field I think for the first time I found myself agreeing with what you wrote on this blog (the early one) and then in the words of the song -you go and spoil it all by-----leave the beth din alone man !!you keep posting nonsense on this subject and if i wish to read alice in wonderland ,i will buy it -you can write sensible stuff ,i have seen it -just keep practicing