The Obamanable churchman takes a bow

Mike

Barack Obama has since strongly rejected the remarks of Pastor Wight. Melanie must have known this when she posted this thread.

THX1138

This was Obama's answer after being confronted by Hillary Clinton about his support of and from Farrakhan at the 20th Democratic in Ohio just before the Primary OBAMA: "Tim (Russet the chair), I have to say I don't see a difference between denouncing and rejecting. There's no formal offer of help from Minister Farrakhan that would involve me rejecting it. But if the word "reject" Senator Clinton feels is stronger than the word "denounce," then I'm happy to concede the point, and I would reject and denounce." Farrakhan I don’t what more the man can say on his relationship with Farrakhan. Obama cannot be held responsible for every utterance of his priest. Fair minded people would rightly think it was ridiculous if Cameron as an Anglican or Blair as a Catholic were attacked and held responsible for every stupid utterance of Rowan Williams or Pope Benedict so why single out Obama? Play the man not his priest. By the way since when did op-ed piece in WSJ become reporting or even MSM more like loony right wing fringe.

field

I still wonder whether there might be more to this NOI link. Certainly journalists should be digging. The American public have a right to know who they are electing.

Mladen Andrijasevic

A few days ago Obama publicly claimed he personally did not hear his pastor say the US deserved the 9-11 attack, and was screaming: "Not God bless America - but God damn America!!", because he didn't attend Church that day! We are supposed to believe that no one of his friends told him that his pastor publicly denounced America instead of the terrorists for th 9-11 attack?

Brian O'Connor

The comments by "Mike" and "THX1138" are fascinating to me, and I respect their rights to hold whatever opinion each may choose to form about Senator Obama.

I'm afraid I'm a tad more cynical. I've watched the videos, one of which — and there are more — I invite you to watch here: http://tinyurl.com/ypobec

Here's what strikes me about the video clips: the parishioners are really into Pastor Wright's hateful words. They are not stunned by them, they apparently do not see them as an aberration, a one-time detour into demagoguery and hate.

It looks to me like they're getting exactly what they came for — a hate-filled tirade damning, in the ugliest black supremacist tradition, all things white and all things American.

Sen. Obama has been one of Pastor Wrights flock for 20 years, and reports that he attends sermons regularly, unless something pressing keeps him away (e.g. the birth of a child). Pastor Wright married him, baptized his children, provided the inspiration for the title for his second book, and Pastor Wright's church reportedly benefitted from sizable contributions from the Senator.

It is inconceivable to me that Senator Obama was unaware of the Pastor's feelings and antics before being grilled by the press if he attended services at all. And if the Reverend's rantings really were an occasional aberration, and Mr. Obama just happened to miss those particular ones, am I to believe that he heard nothing about them from shocked and distressed souls who did attend and did hear the invective?

(ABC News's Jake Tapper links to a Rolling Stone article describing the radical roots of Obama http://tinyurl.com/36emld and Jake Tapper links to a NewsMax article placing Obama in the Church, nodding in apparent approval, when Wright referred to the US as "the United States of White America" http://tinyurl.com/2s7g3n ).

The question isn't what Mr. Wright said, or which comments Obama rejected or denounced when finally badgered into commenting on Wright's disgusting assertions.

Why did Obama expose himself, his wife and his children to such divisive poison for 20 years? Why didn't he leave such a hateful place? Was he pandering for the extremist black vote, or was he genuinely sympathetic to Pastor Wright's worldview? Does he feel so indebted to the Reverend that he cannot walk away?

Another question would be this: if Senator Obama now finds the Reverend's words so odious, what has he done to persuade his Pastor of the error of his (Wright's) ways? What steps has the Senator taken to reduce the hate spewed by Reverend Wright, reduce the divide between the Reverend, his flock and mainstream America?

I agree with Victor Davis Hanson: http://tinyurl.com/2straf (read it all).

"Given Obama’s past sanctimonious dismissal of the Christian right (“The so-called leaders of the Christian right, who’ve been all too eager to exploit what divides us.”), he now is in danger of not just playing the hypocrite, but the fool as well. Referring to Wright as a “respectable biblical scholar” et al, is laughable—given that almost everything Wright seems to assert, whether about the Roman Empire or the origins of AIDs, is buffoonery."

Pip

Well said Brian.

George Steiner

By the time this is over the Americans will rightfully ask themselves, what was that about? Here is this dude who removes the American flag from his lapel on the excuse that "true patriotism means discussing difficult subjects". Virtually implying that those that wear the pin are not true patriots. This doesn't sit well with most Americans, who are unashamedly proud to be Americans. Not like his wife who as a devoted follower of Mr. Wright has in 40 some years of her life has not managed to be proud of being an American untill recently. Europeans including the Brits would like nothing better than to have a US persident who is a leftwing socialist, which Obambi is. For many of you "rejecting" is all that is required to eliminate 20 years of unequivocal agreement with pastor Wright. It is like the word "condemn" when used liberally for acts of terrorism. The two most useless words in the english language. Essentially Obambi is an empty suit. Albeit a well cut one. But I wonder how long the suit would have lasted in the Hanoi Hilton. From time to time when I come across people who sneer at the Americans, I ask them this. How many Nobel prizes do you think the Americans have collected? How does about 200 sound? The second highest number belongs to the clever Brits. But they have only about 60, in case pride is a question.

Ian C

I too was aware that Obama had made the noises mentioned by Mike and THX, but Brian O'Connor's cynicism sounds well justified and merits more expose, which is no doubt what will happen in the closing weeks of the nominee race and the Presidential election if he wins the former. To me he sounds like the US equivalent of Neil Kinnock in the 1980's and 90's, with more cool and charisma: of the left, pretending to be reasonable & non idealistic, while his past would suggest otherwise and very smug in himself.

THX1138

Why will you not post my comments about the links between Bush Snr & Jnr and Mccaian and those Priest peddlers of hate Jerry Falwell & Ted Haggard?

Pete Hoskin

THX1138: Haggard's denied a aspect of your attempted comment, so posting it could land us in hot water.

Tara

Yet again, Melanie picks up on something well before the rest of the crowd (see her earlier posts). This report on the same subject contains some absolutely astonishing footage of Wright: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/foreign/tobyharnden/mar08/preachersproblem.htm

THX1138

Mladen Andrijasevic & Brian O'Connor Et all A few quotes from Jerry Falwell a favourite priest of a past President Bush an incumbent President Bush & the new Republican Nominee Mccain . Some direct quotes on his death President Bush said both he and his wife, Laura, were "deeply saddened" by Mr Falwell's death. "He taught young people to remain true to their convictions and rely upon God's word throughout each stage of their lives," Mr Bush said. John Mcain said Republican contender for US president - who described him as "a man of distinguished accomplishment who devoted his life to serving his faith and country". Former President George H.W. Bush said, "Jerry -- I'm glad to have been introduced by a loyal friend. Jerry Fallwell said. ON GAYS- AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals. ON JEWS-The Jews are returning to their land of unbelief. They are spiritually blind and desperately in need of their Messiah and Savior. On 9/11-God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve. Looks like Obama isn’t the only one with a troublesome priest . I have removed the references to the disgraced priest friend of Bush Jnr Ted Haggard.

THX1138

Pete Hoskin- By the way what aspect of my previous comment is Ted Haggard denying. Is it the alleged use of crystal meth with an alleged rent boy or doesn't he like the the fact that the alleged incident took place in a motel room? I suggest that before you have a go at Obama watch the documentary Jesus Camp to see the kind of priests that the Republicans are getting into bed with. They make Mr. Wright views look like those of Cof E vicar in the home counties.

Brian O'Connor

THX1138, I admire your spunk, and I continue to respect your right to hold whatever opinion you wish about the regrettable Obama/Wright affair. I encourage you to defend Obama by whatever means you choose, even using a tu Quoque fallacy, or something that approaches one.

I agree that Bush, Bush, McCain and other conservative politicians — like their leftist counterparts — have pandered to controversial religious leaders, some of whom have made completely outrageous statements with which I disagree, in the course of trying to round up votes.

But I see something fundamentally different between their efforts — Clinton pandering to Jesse Jackson in defense of his Lewinsky debacle, for example — and Obama's 20 year association with hate-monger Wright.

When you can show me that any of these three, Bush, Bush or McCain, claimed that any hate-spewer was the centerpiece of his spiritual development; or a confidant with whom he regularly prayed privately and sought council from; or claimed him as a personal friend or likened him to an uncle; or exposed their wife and children week after week for 2 decades to his vitriol for THEIR spiritual health — then you might be able to convince me that there is some sort of moral equivalence.

The fact is that Mr. Obama regarded this guy as his moral beacon for 20 years. End of story.

Feel free to disagree.

As an aside, irrespective of what you believe, the Democrats are now sweating bricks, because they believe, as I do, that this story has strong legs and can easily sink Obama, and with him, the chances Democrats have for profiting during this next election.

What's going to happen if Obama loses Pennsylvania by — say — 30% rather than the 10% that's predicted, and still goes into the convention leading Hillary in delegates and in the popular vote?

Will the Super-delegates listen to Hillary, agree that Obama is unelectable, and nominate Hillary? If so, what would that do to future black support for the Democrats? What would it say about the failure of the MSM to have acted responsibly and properly vetted Obama when he first threw his hat in the ring, and disclosed these ties early, which would have averted this disaster?

And what are the congressional Democratic candidates to do if Obama is nominated, and they have to comment on the record about his affiliation with Reverend Wright?

What we're seeing here, folks, is a perfect storm of identity politics, political correctness, the triumph of ideology over facts and reason, and MSM bias all slowly exploding before our very eyes. Or, as the Reverend Wright might well say, as he did about 9/11: "The chickens are coming home to roost."

Or so I would argue.

Patrick

Barack Hussein Obama quotes at length and approvingly in his autobiography of Revd Wright's racist rant when he first came under Wright's influence. Furthermore, Obama was aware years ago of the potential disaster which public knowledge of Wright's sermons would produce for his political goals: the New York Times published an article about Obama on March 6, 2007 wherein Obama explains to Wright why he has decided not to permit Wright to lead the 'prayer' at Obama's announcement of his entering the presidential race: "You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we've decided is that it's best for you not to be out there in public." http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/us/politics/06obama.html?-r=28oref=slogin&oref=slogin Obama has filed an IRS return for 2006 showing that he contributed $22,500 to that 'church' so he agrees with his pastor's conduct and words throughout. Wright's 'sermons' are available, at the church, and ABC TV News, which first broke the story, had examined over 20 of these videos and transcripts, finding them to be consistent throughout with the most disgusting one when Wright, mouthing profanity, and only a few days after the 9/11 attack shouted "God damn America." Re the link to the Nation of Islam and Obama: Wright visited Gaddafi in Libya in the company of Farrakhan of NoI and has described himself, Wright, as a "former black Muslim"; Obama employed, as his Campaign Treasurer a member of NoI; Obama's Senate staff includes a member of NoI and his Testimonials Page of his website includes a black minister (Dr J ALfred Smith)who was a recipient of 'awards' from the NoI in 1990 and the Black Panther Movement in 1975. No person, hearing or being aware of the hateful content of Wright's 'sermons' should have remained in such an unChristian place as that false 'church.' His claims to 'heal' the 'racial divide' of the US are offensive given that he clearly cultivates those forces which can only further rupture and possibly destroy America.

THX1138

Pete- Whats wrong now about my comments about Ted Haggard? I did use the word alleged that always seems to work on Have I Got News For You. I thought that the Spectator had bigger cojones.

Pete Hoskin

THX1138 - Your comment (with the "alleged"s in) is up - nothing wrong with it. And to answer the question in it: Haggard claims that he bought but didn't use the crystal meth. Oh, and I'm not about to have a go at Obama, and I've seen Jesus Camp!

Linda M. New York City

Mr. Obama has been a member of Pastor Wright's church for 20 years. It is inconceivable that he did not know Mr. Wright's agenda. Pastor Wright married the Obamas and baptized his children. In his book, Obama speaks of Wright in glowing terms. He only recently rejected Pastor Wright's remarks when he was forced to do so because of the outcry from the media. He NEVER rejected the pastor...just SOME of his remarks. It appears to me that the man is a liar. If he isn't, then he's an idiot for not knowing that he belongs to such a hateful church. Either way, he won't get my vote!

THX1138

Thanks Pete your a star.

Brian O'Connor

Just for what it's worth, a couple of points and a quote from an article in the Asia Times. http://tinyurl.com/yr38g

The Reverend Wright, when interviewed by Sean Hannity in March of 2007 http://tinyurl.com/38yaqv , presented as forcefully as it is possible to do that his own moral compass is calibrated by the writing of one James Cone, who is credited with developing "black liberation theology."

What, you may well ask, is "black liberation theology?"

Here's a sample, straight from Cone's fertile mind, as quoted by the AT article:

"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love." (Ref)

This is the poison that informed Reverend Wright's views, the moral authority he cited when he was interviewed by Sean Hannity in March of 2007.

Senator Obama has a problem . . .

Brian O'Connor

Above, I supplied a link to the Asia Times article on "black liberationist theology." That link evidently led elsewhere. This one should take you to where I'd intended you could go: http://tinyurl.com/yr38go

Sorry about that.

THX1138

Brian- Andrew Sullivan gets it spot on over at The Daily Dish. http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/the-testing-of.html

Nick Kaplan

The problem actually should be more to do with Obama’s close relationship to Wright. Whilst Obama cannot be held responsible for his church’s ludicrous decision to grovel to this racist fool (Farrakhan), it does not excuse him from association with Wright who is almost as bad. Jeremiah Wright, has said that "God Bless America" should be replaced by "God damn America", and Fox News has reported numerous instances of his anti-American sermons. Does it not seem a bit odd that someone desiring to be president has such a close relationship to someone else that is known to have a pathological hatred of the country he wants to lead? The problem does not just end with Wright, it seems Obama has a certain affinity to those that denounce the country he seeks to rule, his wife for example made a statement after he won a primary saying she was never proud of her country before then. If I were an American I would be deeply worried about the thought of this left wing turncoat coming to power and destroying all that has been achieve in the name of freedom and prosperity in that country.

Brian O'Connor

THX1138: I have read Sullivan's piece.

In essence, he claims to have read Obama's mind, to know the "true obama" to be different from the one we presently see bobbing and weaving in a desperate attempt to extricate himself from his . . . well . . . quagmire.

I'm afraid I just don't have much faith in mind—reading, much less Great Insights based on it.

But that's just my opinion, and I certainly respect your right to differ.

Achad Ha'amoratzim

In the words of Thomas Sowell, "Senator Barack Obama's political success thus far has been a blow for equality. But equality has its down side. Equality means that a black demagogue who has been exposed as a phony deserves exactly the same treatment as a white demagogue who has been exposed as a phony."

Ann

If Cameron donated thousands of pounds to the coffers of a vicious, mouth-foaming, racist demagogue, then I would regard him in the same light. He hasn't, so I don't. End of. Next!

THX1138

Brian- Thanks for a good debate but you haven't changed my mind. Don't know if you have watched the film The Matrix well Senator Barack Obama is the one. Watch him not only dodge the bullets but turn a difficult situation into a triumph. http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hisownwords I wish I had a vote he is the best candidate I have seen in my life time