Trashing grandma, yet

THX1138

Mel- Forget it this was one of the best speeches on race in a generation. He is going to President get used to it.

Mladen Andrijasevic

1) His comparison between Geraldine Ferraro and Reverend Wright was absurd: "We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro , in the aftermath of her recent statements, as harboring some deep-seated racial bias." 2) He was there and he wasn’t there: " Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes" 3) Will this blow over? If it does so will democracy in America.

d1carter

Melanie: Thanks for cutting to the chase on this guys political ambitions. He denied that he had heard any of his preacher's racist comments, but today he said that he had heard them. He intimated that it was a generational thing. Yet Obama's own children were subjected to this vitriol. It truly does take a great man to side with a racist preacher instead of your own grandmother who helped raise him and loves him more than anything in this world. The glow around BO is starting to grow dim.

Alcuin

THX: "He is going to President".

Dream on. Obama is as much toast as is Ken Livingstone. If you want a view of his transparent vacuity, watch this from Hitchens, via Oliver Kamm.

There are plenty of Paxmen on the US TV networks, and they will shred his rhetoric to expose no meaningful policy whatever.

Tara

This sentence strikes me as astonishing: "But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now." In other words, merely by raising the issue of race, Wright is in the clear of any wrongdoing. Don't bother yourself that Wright's views on race are intolerant. It's as if to say: "Look, he's having a debate on race - that's a good thing. But, uh, uh, don't look too close because his contribution to that debate is to be racist."

Ann

"He is going to President get used to it." --- Of course he is. It must be true. After all, so said the true prophet with a direct line to the future, a poster who can't even punctuate or use modal verbs correctly.

Max Kaye

THX1138 - As a fan of sci-fi I'm sure you'll be familiar with the concept of parallel universes. It is indeed possible that Obama will be President in one of those places.

Meanwhile, back in this universe, McCain will win the Presidency.

Brian O'Connor

Mel, I think your analysis is spot on.

The one thing I'd emphasize is that Obama skirted the fact that Wright wasn't merely expressing his personal viewpoint, or benignly reflecting a black world view.

He was teaching lies as if they were truth in a deliberate attempt to recruit opinion to black liberation theology, as framed by James Cone, with all the hate, racism, divisiveness and rancor that implies. (See this Asia Times article for a quote or two from Cone: http://tinyurl.com/yr38g .)

(You can get a good idea of how deeply the Reverend was influenced by Cone by watching the video of his interview with Sean Hannity a year ago, or reading the transcript of it: http://tinyurl.com/38yaqv )

Wright was willfully and deliberately teaching his parishioners how to become racists, and Obama felt perfectly comfortable sitting in his church for 20 years, with his wife and kids, as Wright went about the hateful business of furthering the goals of Cone's black liberation theology.

What Wright taught was not a matter of personal opinion, it was racist dogma deceitfully packaged as Christianity. And Obama enthusiastically exposed himself and his family to this garbage for 20 years. (IRS records show that Obama contributed over $20,000 to the church in 2006, and Obama took videos of Wright's sermons with him to Harvard Law school.)

I don't know if he'll be the next president or not — but his campaign still has a huge problem, IMO: How can Obama claim, on the one hand, to know Wright as well as he does, and on the other hand to be clueless of the black liberationist theology that so powerfully informed Wright's worldview and consistently served as the basis for his sermons?

Andy Gill

Obama made a bad miscalculation with this stunning piece of political hubris. He bottled his chance to distance himself from his odious pastor, and his chances of the White House just went down the toilet.

Frank Pulley

A Trojan Horse, discovered before they got him through the gates because one of the Greeks who would have taken a ride in his belly shouted the odds too soon and gave the game away. The American electorate will probably say neigh, supposing the Dems let it go that far - which is doubtful now. Well done Melanie, you were the first to get it - over here, anyway.

field

As I pointed out on Harry's Place, you only have to swap colours to see how wrong this is. A White candidate who was a member of a congregation led by a White Supremacist who spouted racist bile accusing African Americans of a conspiracy against Whites would have no chance of becoming President. Quite right too.

David Gray

If Obama wins then I fear for Israel.He does not have what it takes to fight for the survival of the Jews and neither does David Cameron.Cameron and Obama would be the green light that Iran is praying for.

Tim M

Alcuin Strange as this feels after our opposing views on global warming, I totally agree with you on this one. I truly hope you're right about Livingstone. Obama has delivered some very impressive oratory, and has until now tried to avoid the race card. There will now be many weeks of Clinton and Obama tearing each other apart whilst McCain gets to sell his message unhindered. I think this will just be too big of a head start for McCain he'll be too strong come November.

peter buss

Sorry Melanie but what a dreadful distortion of one of the greatest and bravest political speeches I have ever heard.

Sam Lowry

THX1138: "He is going to President get used to it." This time I think you happen to be right THX! (Hooray?) McCain has a problem in that he cannot afford to attack either Democrat candidate until they get their party's nomination and it looks like that by then it might well too late to mount an effective campaign. Alcuin: "Obama is as much toast as is Ken Livingstone." I would wish that you were correct, but unfortunately the electorate of Caliph Ken is not comprised of the people who might vote for Boris. Regime change in London isn't going to be that easy. Alcuin: "There are plenty of Paxmen on the US TV networks, and they will shred his rhetoric to expose no meaningful policy whatever." Tony Blair got elected with vaque talk of the "third way" and no meaningful policies whatsoever. Where were Paxman & Humphreys then? Where are they now? Can anybody recall any teeth and claw jobs they've done on Labour since they got elected? No, because if they did they would be "denied access." Obama's media management team aren't going to let him within a million miles of a really difficult interview. The longer his campaign runs the more reluctant the "US Paxmen" will be to ask the hard question because IF Obama does get elected they will be frozen out. Max, if Obama and/or Ken get elected it might a good time to start looking for that parallel universe! However, one shouldn't be too alarmed by Obama's more dodgy contacts. American adminstrations, particularly Democratic ones, have a track record on protecting themselves. It is called Sudden Instant Death Syndrome. One of the most dangerous things to be be in America is a former associate of the President.

GNO

No wonder Michelle Obama isn't (wasn't?) proud to be an American. Growing up on a daily diet of Rev. Wright's racist views towards white Americans, nobody would. Wright is not only a racist but also a virulent anti-Semite, a fact that has never bothered Obama before his possible and unexpected victories in the primaries. However, what really made me sick was seeing him standing in front of a bank of American flags. The man is a consummate liar, so he should win the Democratic nomination without any trouble. His claim that he wasn't "there" when the Rev was spouting his hatred are debunked here: ahttp://www.newsmax.com/kessler/Obama_hate_America_sermon/2008/03/16/80870.html

GNO

If anything, Rev. Wright's hatred for the white people and the Jews has exposed the oft-ignored prejudices of the blacks themselves. Perhaps the "African-Americans" need to address their own bigotry before they whine on about discrimination.

Tara

To go on a slight tangent, that most confused of authors, Martin Amis, was on This Week a couple of weeks ago and gave a fascinating interview coupled with a short film on Obama. It reminded me of the rise of Blair because Obama was simply an empty canvas upon which Amis read all that he wanted to read. There was lots of waffle about change and hope and - worst of all - how Obama might make Iran 'respect' America again (stop laughing at the back, I'm only writing what I heard him say). Obama's lack of experience was presented as a sort of purity. It's his symbolic value that seems to make even people like Amis construct wild fantasies about the man and what he represents. I just found it very odd for someone to be so gushing with a manifesto or some similar document in their hands. With such strange sentiment building up around him, I can see why Melanies has dubbed him 'Princess Obama'.

Steve

Well put THX1138. This was a thoughtful speech from a man of depth who went against the wishes of his advisors and tackled the issue of race head on. It may not win him any votes, and certainly will generate invective of the type being posted on here and appearing on Fox News and conservative talk shows, but it certainly showed courage. Even George Bush's former speechwriter, Michael Gerson, while arguing that the speech fell short in important ways, praised it as "one of the finest political performances under pressure since John F. Kennedy at the Greater Houston Ministerial Association in 1960."

Rob-NY

The truth is that I simply do not believe him. I would like to see a Democrat that defends his nation as quickly as he defends his party.

Rob-NY

Brillant analysis Ms. Phillips. Sadly it takes a British observer of American politics to do what so many mainstream American pundits lack the courage to do.

M Clyde

I think this is a little too harsh. Yes, it is a concern that Rev Wright holds such views and that Obama could not have been entirely unaware of them. But maybe he forgave them, because there is, after all, context and history, and because that's the Christian thing to do. In his speech he claims he had never heard this man pour racist scorn on any group. If he was hearing such views on a regular basis, then, yes, why didn't he change his church? Why did he expose his children to them? (My guess here is that maybe it was more his wife's doing than his. But should a man be guilty by association with his wife? Especially since there is context. She is 'African-American' but his ancestry has quite different and very modern origins). Given his predicament I think Obama shows some very admirable qualities here. Firstly, of decisiveness, intellectual clarity and fairness; secondly, of sympathy, understanding and loyalty. He is able to be personally sympathetic to a man whom he counts as a friend and in whom he sees many fine qualities, whilst personally disagreeing strongly with his views and being unafraid to say so and distancing himself clearly from them. Being a loyal friend also includes the duty to say, 'Friend, you are simply quite wrong there. Look around you and examine your heart'. That isn't disloyalty and it is not moral ambiguity either. If friends can't do this who else is going to bring about reconciliation and a change of heart? What hope for the world? I think such qualities are worthy ones in a leader, because life IS morally ambiguous these days, but we have to try to straighten it out according to some just principles. If he is 'trashing his grandmother', then I am trashing my late and dearly beloved father. Because Dad also held to some racist views that made me cringe. I loved him but could not agree with this, and told him so. Now what was I supposed to do there - desert my own father 'on principle' because his views were not compatible with mine? What kind of 'principle' leads you to desert your own father? Obama combines forgiveness and compassion with moral and intellectual clarity and we need this today. He is a force for change. It is rare that intellectual clarity, sympathy and firmness of character combine.

PJ

So that’s all right then. Rev Wright: ‘God damn America.’ Hey, I know you’re supposed to be religious man who shows moral leadership, but I forgive you. Shall we give Osama Bin Laden forgiveness, too, when he curses America? Let’s all have a big group hug and not bother with the substance of anything - just how it feels. What’s ‘decisive’ about waiting for the Press to flush out videos of the sermonising nastiness and then comment on what’s in them? Wright is the man who provided the title for Obama’s book The Audacity of Hope, and we’re supposed to think Obama isn’t that close to this man? Hmmn. Where’s the ‘moral and intellectual clarity’? Demonstrate, please. Ditto the ‘firmness of character’. Where is it? What is it? I certainly haven’t seen them in Obama so far. And all I can see in your post, M Clyde, is a collection of non-sequiturs hoping not to be noticed just because they’ve been decorated in candy phrasing. Careful with all that sugar in your mouth, y’hear? Might end up rotting your teeth.

Reid of America

Obama changed the subject from religion to race. Obama doesn't have a race problem but a religious problem that will dodge him until he explicitly renounces his faith. Almost nobody has mentioned that the Rev. Wright is a Muslim apostate just like Obama. Was that the attraction? He has been mortally wounded. I see Clinton winning the nomination after a bloody battle.

John

As an American and facing the prospect of being labeled a racist cracker, I don't see courage when I look at Senator Obama. He is charasmatic and a great orator but he is not courageous. Courage would have been forging a solid political career without riding on the coattails of an American hating hack. Courage would be telling the truth and facing the consequences. Please spare me the Obama only hope for the world tripe. I agree with this article entirely and I will tell you something else you need to know. It was not the racist comments of the Rev. Wright's or Obama's recent outrage at same, that will be the issue in the general election. It will be his close positioning to someone who has total disdain for his own country. That is not going to fly with a majority of the US voters, which will be kind of important in November. So, please continue to delude yourselves Obama supporters in your echo chamber. You may follow Capt. Hope blindly but you are going to be stunned when he gets stomped in November, which will just prove what racists white America is after all, right?

Christie

Excellent summation!

Shy Guy

Obama's shallower than a sidewalk puddle: http://en.sevenload.com/videos/YliHsiO/gingrich-obama

James Malcolm

After twenty years in that church what positive affect did Obama have on the thinking of parishioners, on the bigoted pastor? The answer is - none. So why should we believe he would help heal our country? The subject interests him now because he needs a larger constituency than that afro-centered church.

bill

So far, Obama's rhetorical talent has been to create a blank canvas on which the listener can paint his or her own desires. Change. Change to what? I think everyone has created their own unique image of the man, Obama, and as we learn more about him, people will see how different the real man is from their fantasy Obama. This is the first real concrete issue he has had to address, so the process of revealing has started. Not that the real man would be all that bad, necessarily, but he will be different. And people will be disappointed. This has been the danger all along with his style. The chickens will indeed come home to roost, I fear.

Frank

I would love to know the views of Condi and Colin Powell on this subject.

Charles

I hate to say it, and I'm voting for McCain, but when you put your words next to Obama's, Ms. Phillips, there's just no comparison. The guy is a great writer/speaker and the best kind of idealist.

Joe

He lost white males. It's over. He is from a blame whitie church and he wont leave that church. It will take time for this to sink in, but it's over for Oboma

Verity

A brilliant post from Melanie and many penetrating insights from the commentariat here. I can't trawl back through them all, but Frank Pulley, you are brilliant and insightful. So is the poster who said that during his 20 years of attending that church, Obama has not softened the race hatred of Wright, so how is he going to "heal" a country of 300m people? Bringing Geraldine Ferraro into this row was really reaching. To the poster who referred to Wright being an apostate - I didn't know that. I must confess, I do not see Obama as an apostate at all, however. He's in mufti is all. Pat on the back to me too, because I have sensed from Day One, and said so, that there is something deep, hidden and not right right about Obama and that he's a dangerous man. At first,I thought he was a Manchurian Candidate, but now, I don't think he's a sleeper at all. I do, though, think he is a blank slate that possibily someone else is writing on. I don't know. But there is something not right about Obama.

ajmalkov

Excellent slogan, Mel. Vote Obama to Change...the Subject.

James

If Obama cannot ask a bigoted preacher whom he's known for donkeys' years to change his views what is he going to do when dealing with people like Putin and all of the other bullies he'll face? He can't just wait until after the event to condemn international leaders if they're out of line. It's called strength, a basic requisite of leadership in anyone's book. Imagine what Putin and others will do if they see weakness in an American President. 'God damn America' indeed.

Richard

Mel, Your analysis is a bit over the top but perhaps not far off the mark. Of late I've been reading of his background as the son a white Kansas woman and an African man whom he never got to know. He was raised by his white grandparents, white mother and Indonesian step father, has a half sister who is half Indonesian. An impressive mix. As a youth he felt rootless and sought identification with a community. After all of this what does he gravitate towards? A racist black church?? That's right. As a democrat I was going to promise my vote to the party's candidate. I don't think I can now do that.

Michael B

"After twenty years in that church what positive affect did Obama have on the thinking of parishioners, on the bigoted pastor? The answer is - none. So why should we believe he would help heal our country?" Nothing to add to that, but it bears repeating.

yr gal sal

It is an open secret (at least here in the American South) that many Blacks subscribe to a belief in "the plan," that is, that Whites go home at night and plot how to destroy Blacks/ Black culture/ Black men. I was shocked when I first learned of it, but a large portion of Blacks really believe it. Of course, there are others who have a head on their shoulders and don't. Sometimes you can tell from a "code word" that creeps out in conversation.

LogicalUS

"the greatest and bravest political speeches I have ever heard" Here is what you are dealing with the Obama fans. A flowery 40 minute cover-your-arse speech written by his handlers and you are supposed to overlook his 20-year patronage of this racist, anti-semetic "pastor", the baptism of his children into this "faith", the ranting of his spouse and his 20K of donations to spread this message. Overlook that we now know: -why Wright and his church so love Louis Farrakan, Wright is the christian version. -why Obama has foreign policy advisors which advocated using the US military to confront the Israelis to accept a Palistinian state in 2001. -why his wife was never proud of her country in "entire adult life". She and Obama were getting every Sunday in "church. All this is overlooked because he talks "purty" to them.

Bogdan of Australia

Lets sum it up; Lots of a bullcrap, wrapped in a glossy fabric. No thinking person will be swayed by it...

Careless

Lying about your grandmother in order to tar her as a racist is... remarkably ugly.

Brian O'Connor

Obama's numbers are tanking even as we watch.

Yesterday's speech was grounded on white guilt (you have to understand the context: white-caused slavery and prejudice) and moral equivalence (his grandmother's private concerns are the moral equivalent of Wright's indoctrinating sermons).

IMO, it hasn't worked, and Obama is doomed as a presidential candidate.

Something is profoundly different in my country, America, and though I can't find words to express exactly what, it's there. Like 9/11, things here are forever changed.

THX1138

Brian "Obama's numbers are tanking even as we watch" No they are not. Read Dick Morris he might know a thing or two more about US elections than you. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/wrights_rantings_wont_sink_oba.html

Ian C

This looks like the nail in Obama's coffin - and none of us inthis country saw it coming this quickly. He was very brave in tackling the issue head on as he did and with deft eleoqunece. But the substance of the situation looks like he has blown it. It will be quite a comeback if he has not. If he has blown it, he has been caught out as being incredibly naive that he thought he could run for president having had a long association with such a man. We need a sysytem in this country that weeds people out in this way. We would not have had Major or Brown as PM's.

M. A. Morgan

I completely agree with this article. He couldn't choose his grandmother, but he could choose his pastor and he chose to stay in a close relationship for 20 years with Pastor Wright who expressed such poisonous hate-filled philosophy towards whites. This type of language perpetuates a racial divide that can never heal. Obama's speech was an insult to my intelligence and did not excuse him from his association for 20 years with a man who preached this type of message to others.I am a democrat but I will never vote for Obama. I don't trust his ability to lead, and the way he handled this makes me doubt his integrity. I think he will say or do anything to get elected.

Ian C

Is that right THX? Hillary Leads Obama in Gallup National Poll For the first time in nearly six weeks, Hillary Rodham Clinton leads Barack Obama, 49 percent to 42 percent in daily tracking polling conducted this past Sunday to Tuesday. Her last lead was in the Feb. 7-9 polling, which was coming off the heels of her strong showing on Super Tuesday. http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/Obama_Hillay_national_/2008/03/19/81715.html

Ann

"The guy is a great writer/speaker and the best kind of idealist" - but a completely useless politician, never mind statesman. And his speeches are probably written for him. But even if not, spouting a lot of idealistic hot air is great when you are 15 and debating at the school council. Not so great when you have to deal with real issues.

Ann

"We would not have had Major or Brown as PMs" - Major was a good PM, and he won an election (and rightly so). There is no comparison between him and Brown, who is as shallow and useless as Obama (and we have had 10 years to find out about Brown and his destruction of the economy, which I have been warning about for the last 5 years at least). What we do need is a statutory requirement for someone in Brown's position to hold a general election within 3 months, not to govern without being elected.

Frank Pulley

TXH1138: Dick Morris's piece in Real Clear Politics is very interesting. Thanks for the heads up. In a way what Morris suggests is an echo of Tony Blair's career in the mid-nineties. He was used as a Trojan Horse too by a somewhat reluctant old labour party and a much more cunning ‘New Labour’ cabal to gull the electorate wwith promises of change and infiltrate the establishment. Old Labour thought they would be able to gain control and leave the Trojan horse by the wayside and install Gordon Brown once inside the gates. New Labour thought they would be able to implement the final stages of the Gramscian game plan, partly through Blair and his PR machine but more covertly through a mix of elected and non-elected 'advisors' and other string pullers in academia and in the other already-subverted infrastructural intuitions. As it turned out, the wooden horse became flesh and blood very quickly once inside, then cantered off track by his own incarnated muscular legs, ignoring the reins and eventually galloped into foreign fields with a transatlantic stud to save the world: hardly envisaged by either socialist faction. Is it possible that Obama has something similar in mind. In other words, to use an Americanism, "Who's kidding who?" I wonder! Mind you, he's still got McCain to deal with and McCain ain't no erstwhile failed bus conductor cum bank clerk like Major. I think the bookies will tell us which one to back quite soon. Mind you, the bookies are not always right. I backed 'Never Say Die' ridden by Lester Piggott in the 1954 Derby, my first ever serious bet of 10/-. It romped home at 33-1. For a twenty-year-old that was riches indeed. An omen perhaps?

C O JONES

Forget it THX1138. Dick Morris, Obama's Grandma and apparently your grammar isn't going to cut the mustard with the predominately English, elderly bed blockers on this board. They pull the sheets over their heads and hope that Obama will go away but eek, every time they take a peek he is still there. George Steiner is one of the very few worth bothering with and he hasn't posted. Your frustration must only be tempered by the mental image of a poodle named Verity humping the leg of the insightful Frank. Your turn to buy the coffee.

David Allen

If there was 'something of the night' about John Howard, there is 'something of the Blair' in Barack Obama. I think the Obama mirage is evaporating here in the USA. McCain should be very satisfied at the way things are moving at the moment.

aramkr

Who needs radical mosques when you've got churches like Trinity.

Shawmut

Obama's church published a weekly newsletter, with a 'pastor's page' included. What we have heard on several videos of his 'sermons' is repeated in those pages and there is a two-page tribute to a known Hamas terrorist. I presume such a church newsletter is either always available at the church or posted to the congregation's membership, so Obama's excuse of not knowing what his pastor was saying is unlikely. Obama's autobiography has a mention of Wright's sermons which duplicates the tone of what Wright said in his "God damn America" sermon (O's mention substitutes Nagasaki bombings for Hiroshima bombings but includes the attacks on the white race). I've been a registered Democrat for 40 yrs and I informed the National Party yesterday that, not only will I not vote for Obama, but that, if he is offered as the Party's candidate, I believe this will be the death knell of the Dems. As to the issue of Barack Hussein Obama's links with Islam: since the only factor which tied him to Christianity was his membership to this 'church' and, since I think it unlikely any sane person regards it as such, may we please turn our attention back to Islam and Obama? The 'minister' at TUCC described himself as a "former black Muslim" who majored at theology school in Islam, his 'church' gave an award to the Nation of Islam leader Farrakhan, denied entry to Britain many years ago for his racist rants,and 'minister' Wright travelled with Farrakhan to visit Gaddafi in Libya (NY Times article, March 6, 2007: "When his enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli to visit Col Gaddafi with Farrakhan, his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell"; also from the same article, Obama to Wright, explaining to him why he wasn't invited to give the opening prayer when O announced his candidacy: "You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we've decided is that it's best for you not to be out there in public"). Obama's senatorial office says he didn't hear Wright's racist diabtribe given on 22 July, 2007 because he was out of town. His office confirms that at 1.30 that day Obama was at the annual National Convention of La Raza, an Hispanic, anti-American group in US which advocates for rights for 12 million illegal aliens from Mexico, the motto of the org. being "For the race, everything; for those outside the race, nothing." Obama's family: father Kenyan Arabic tribe and a Moslem, mother, left-wing but she would have had to convert to Islam to marry; her second husband was also Moslem; Obama registered as a Moslem at school; attended a multi-religious school in Indonesia, however, he was enrolled in classes teaching Koran by rote which is a discipline sought only by devout Moslem families; several of his siblings and his paternal grandparent are Moslem; his cousin, Odinga, promised to institute Sharia law in Kenya(signing an agreement to that effect) if he won the election and the govt complained of Obama's interference in that election; on Obama's testimonials page on his website he lists Keith Ellison (one of 2 Muslim Reps in House of Reps) and also a Dr Alfred Smith who was given awards by the Black Panther movement in 1975 and the Nation of Islam in 1990. I believe those to whom Obama is truly bound do not have the best interests of my country at heart.

Jerry

Looks like you could do with a coffee 'CO Jones'. Your post reads as if it were written by an inebriate. I doubt whether George Steiner wants an incoherent drunkard drooling all over him. I hope you wash your teeth before you accost people like this.

THX1138

C O JONES- I Imagine my fellow posters sitting down with a cup of tea in the morning and The Daily Wail & then logging on a for and good old love in with Nurse Ratchet. I'm happy to increase their enjoyment by being the Aunt Sally on this blog It's nice to be of service to the seniors I just hope their blood pressure doesn't get too high with all the vitriol, malice and general ranting. . I still believe Obama is going to win. Yes he was in tight corner but he came out with something powerful, true & important not some BS like the trust me I'm Tony over the F1 thing or Nixon's dog speech. Of course his priest was wrong but I wonder what any of you would be like if you had lived all your life with the stone in your shoe of being a black man in America you might think very differently and say far worse than Rev Wright. You cynical old has been's can rant & rave all you like but for me Obama is a good man with a powerful message of change and hope and I for one hope he becomes President

Ann

Not so much an inebriate, Jerry, as a 14-year old who thinks everyone over the age of 22 is a 'bed blocker'. What an idiot.

Verity

THX1138 - I am baffled by your defence of this indefensable individual and by your strange view of the United States - given that you apparently visited there before punishing them for their immigration procedures. You write: "Of course his priest was wrong but I wonder what any of you would be like if you had lived all your life with the stone in your shoe of being a black man in America ...". I cannot believe this was written in all seriousness. America's jumping with black achievers. There are senior black judges (including women); black chiefs of police; black mayors; black businessmen who live in the most exclusive areas of their cities and belong to the best country clubs; there are black surgeons, black senators, black academics, black journalists (among them one of my favourite journalists in the Anglosphere, Thomas Sowell), black veterinarians - I am honestly baffled by your comment. They live in beautiful homes, drive expensive cars, have summer homes at he beach ... Did you clock that mansion Obama and his motor-mouthed wife own? When I lived in the US, I encountered achieving black people every day of my life. Like unto like. Middle class whites mix around with middle class blacks. It just isn't a big deal. You seem to be looking back at an America of 40 years ago.

THX1138

Hi Verity That was quick- Did you listen to the speech? This part I think explains my point the best--- "But for all those who scratched and clawed their way to get a piece of the American Dream, there were many who didn't make it - those who were ultimately defeated, in one way or another, by discrimination. That legacy of defeat was passed on to future generations - those young men and increasingly young women who we see standing on street corners or languishing in our prisons, without hope or prospects for the future. Even for those blacks who did make it, questions of race, and racism, continue to define their worldview in fundamental ways. For the men and women of Reverend Wright's generation, the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years. That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends. But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table. At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician's own failings." Can I suggest that you go to Amazon and buy the box set of all four seasons of the Wire on DVD and set about educating your self on the black experience in modern America you just might change your opinion of Obama & Rev Wright. PS I'm reading 2001 again over the Easter weekend.

THX1138

Verity- Swap black for Jewish in your comment & see how well that goes down on this blog. I understand that Jews have some nice houses in Hampstead & wifes with motor mouths & few have even made into the professions.

Verity

THX1138 - I don't know what your problem is, but you are not rational and you do not know as much about the United States as you think you do. Every word you write is dripping with ignorance and self-regard for your own perceptions. You write: "Swap black for Jewish in your comment". Presumably this was a crude attempt to curry favour with Melanie. Not only is the comparison odious, but it demonstrates a level of ignorance and prejudice on your part. Tens of thousands of Jewish women are outstanding professionals and entrepreneurs, not "wives with motor mouths". And Jewish people came to the United States of their own free will, not shipped over in chains in the hold, and started prospering the minute their feet hit the dock. Speaking of motor mouths, I think it is now clear why you encounter problems getting through US Immigration. That you've publically sworn not to go back doubtless occasioned drinks all round. Obama's history.

Gena

Sorry, THX1138, I missed the post where somebody said British Jews walk round with a 'stone in their shoe'. Has it been deleted?

Brian O'Connor

As the self-identified agent of change, one whose aspirations include changing the way the entire country does business, I'd like to know what change Obama was able to effect in the Reverend Wright's worldview, having had 20 years to work on him.

John

Just wondering when your fine paper will cover the fact that John McCain gladly ACCEPTED the support of an equally crazy pastor. I won't hold my breathe. You guys wouldn't recognize a leader if he bit your on the arse. You prefer someone who speaks fluent BBQ to someone who speaks to you like you were an adult.

Lynne T

Probably the best observation about Obama and his speech about the Rev. Wright comes in prose form from award-winning screenwriter Roger L Simon, who numbered among the young idealists who travelled down to the southern US in the early 1960s to help register black voters and otherwise fight against racial segregation and other anti-black discriminatory practices. CO Jones and THX1138, snicker all you like at us aging baby boomers. I doubt I'll live long enough to see if your generation produces the like of my generation. An Homage to Andrew Goodman* Barack, I didn’t do it for this. Barack, I was a civil rights worker… South Carolina, 1966… 22 yrs old … helping old folks register to vote, teaching kids to read and write, directing Raisin in the Sun… Barack, I didn’t do it for this. Barack, I dream of my kindergarten best friend Andy [A. Goodman] from Walden School, Manhattan, born one day after me, shot dead in Mississippi 1964. Barack, I idolized Stokley Carmichael and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. Barack, I lost the full use of my left hand for life in South Carolina. Barack, I didn’t do it for this. Barack, I gave hundreds to the Black Panthers for their children’s breakfast program when I was 25 and a young screenwriter in Echo Park, Los Angeles, even though I knew Huey was crazy and was worried my money might have been going for guns, even though I had my own children in the house when the Panthers came over, their jackets bulging. Barack, I made excuses for the Black Power Movement even though I knew it was turning racist. Barack, I didn’t do it for this. Barack, your speech was bullshit. Barack, this isn’t about generations. Barack, this isn’t about the black church. Barack, this is about a pathological minister whose uncontrolled anger wounds his own people and keeps them down. Barack, this is about a man who ignored that rage for his own political gain and even now won’t admit a huge mistake and looks for nuance and excuses. Barack, this about a woman who went on scholarship to Princeton and Harvard and still hates America. Barack, you say you want Black-Jewish reconciliation but you hung with an anti-Semite. Barack, I didn’t do it for this. * one of three young Jewish men murdered by segregationists while on a voter registration drive. It took decades to solve the murders. Read it all: http://pajamasmedia.com/2008/03/barack_i_didnt_do_it_for_this.php

phil

It stuck me as a brave and great speech with unequivocal condemnation of the reverand wright,s thoughts ,but it also struck me that he also has poor judgement of the people he should associate himself with .There is the dilemma,would you want a man with great thoughts and poor judgement to be the President of the most powerful nation on earth with all that it entails ? It certainly worries me , thankfully its not my decision.

Kennybhoy

Is this a private argument or can anyone join in....? Please do correct me if I am wrong here, but I do not recall Miss Phillips publicly taking issue with the anti-war and anti-American editorial line of the Daily Mail or the deeply sinister views of at least one of her colleagues....

Ann

"I understand that Jews have some nice houses in Hampstead & wifes with motor mouths" - dumb racist crap. What a surprise.

Jean

It's very interesting to me to see the passes given for the behavior of Rev. Wright, as there are plenty of all-black churches that do NOT buy into the racist claptrap of "black liberation theology". I only became aware of that particular twist on Christianity when someone lent me on of James H.Cone's works. I find it very ironic that Rev. Wright lives in a high-end neighborhood with mostly affluent white neighbors. Maybe that's a Chicago thing, as I only know Detroit. I just finid it a marked contrast to people like the late Mother Waddles, who started her "Perpetual Mission" to aid the disadvantaged of all colors. Or my mentor, Sunbeam Hughes, the principal at all-black St. Martin de Porres High School. Mrs. Hughes and Dean Carter never bad-mouthed the country or any whites; they just held their students to a high standard and helped them achieve it. I hope you don't think I'm out of line for saying it, but it's as self-defeating to cite the racism of Jim Crowe as a reason to be a racist as it is to cite anti-suffragists as a reason to be anti-male. There are so many opportunities today. Among my immediate circle of friends, there are more with advanced degrees and upper-management positions than there are of my parents' and grandparents' generation.

London Calling

Dearest Americans, Vote for Kermit the frog, at least he hasn't got any green issues and his mouth can be controlled using one hand, otherwise sesame street will take over and the cookie monster will eat you all. Happy Holidays........

Trisha

What's up with you, Kennybhoy? Despite the shrieking of its smugocracy detractors the Daily Mail has never been about homogenised opinion. It has Roy Hattersley as a permanent columnist (Lauren Booth was guest last Sunday for the equally watery Suzanne Moore) and has even serialised a book by Gordon Brown. If memory serves me, it even serialised The Tony Benn diaries. What seems to offend people about the Mail is that it lets people speak a few home truths they'd rather not hear. You might recall it was the paper that led the charge on the Stephen Lawrence case when no-one else was making the running. If you don't like it, tough. Buy another newspaper. They don't seem to go in for such a broad divergence of opinion on some other newspapers. I'm thinking of David Aaranovitch's complaint that when he wrote for The Guardian. He felt the Guardian didn't seem to want him on the op ed pages and so relegated him to the G2 section. Odd, though, that The Guardian dignified Osama Bin Laden by presenting chunks of his speeches (made from hiding) on their op ed pages. Can't think why it runs at a loss. Surely if you travel to work on the tube every morning you want to see the man who wants to blow you up airing his thoughts in a paper you've just paid 70p for? That was when I gave up buying it.

Spencer de Vere

Obama is a liar and a fool. Would someone please ask him if he took his children along to hear the hate-preacher's sermons. If so, WHY ? In not, WHY NOT ?

George Steiner

In Islam, there is an idea called "al-Takiyya" sanctioned by the Koran. Some say it is translated as dissimulation some translate it as diplomacy. En bref, it is the idea that a Muslim whose heart is with his faith can have his mouth elsewhere, even against his faith. I suggest that Mr.Wright is a practitioner of "al-Takiyya." There is much circumstantial support for this. But I will let you clever fellows dig them up. As for Obambi?

Al

What is his mother doing or should I say, who is she doing at this time?

Michael

I logged on to this website to find out what the right wing press made of Obama's speech. Mel's analysis has obviously got most of you very excited. Mr Obama's speech was a stunning analysis of the root causes of racism in America. Does anyone know what Bush thinks of anything important like racial division? If you feel like your world view or sense of superiority is being threatened because you've seen a black man with the Intelligence and qualities of becoming President of the US then I suggest you relax a little. Most you probably have racist grandmothers or friends, but if asked if their views would influence you should you have a chance of becoming prime minister, the answer 'am sure would be no. We've had George W Bush as President for the last seven years. We can draw inferences from his actions on Hurricane Katrina. He probably has racist friends too. All 'am saying is, it was just a speech about racial tolerance and understanding. The media will always throw mud at politicians, who have to use their skills to make sure it doesn't stick. Mel in her analysis as a right wing press journalist is just playing the game. After reading all the anti BO comments she's definitely done her job. But seriously do you really think Obama will make a worse president than Dubya or McCain(Dubya 2.0) even if he proposes policies that gives black people more jobs or a sense of hope. What are you really afraid of?

patrick

dude, you are ignorant. i want to know where you got your diploma from.

Lucille

"All 'am saying is, it was just a speech about racial tolerance and understanding." But how did the speech come about? Only because of the broadcasting on prime time TV of Wright's sermons. All of a sudden there was some explaining to do. It was a speech to try to distance Obama from a racist who has had an enormous effect on Obama's thinking. Not only did Obama attend this pastor's church, Wright provided the title of Obama's book. If you place that much importance on somebody that they inspire the title of your autobiography, it suggests that this person's outlook on life has had an enormous, indeed life-defining, effect on you. You don't need one-on-one whispered chats to pick up on Wright's views, they're in the church, on videos, in transcripts issued to the parishoners. Either Obama has suddenly got wise to what Wright was saying, which implies he's a man who can only get wise after an event has happened - a flaw no President should have. Or Obama knew full well the what Wright was saying and didn't have the gumption to say to him "Hey, dude, quit with damning America". Neither scenario presents the picture of a man qualified to be running the United States.

Verity

Michael - I wrote above: There are senior black judges (including women); black chiefs of police; black mayors; black businessmen who live in the most exclusive areas of their cities and belong to the best country clubs; there are black surgeons, black senators, black academics, black journalists (among them one of my favourite journalists in the Anglosphere, Thomas Sowell), black veterinarians ... Look at all the white people at Obama's rallies; look at all the white volunteers. Where do you Brits get off taking up an American non-cause that you don't understand? You're full of misinformation - mainly dribbled out of the petulant, self-satisfied mouth of Matt Frei. You end up looking like silly teen-age girl wannabees.

Ian C

What matters is what happens to the polling. Hilary has reversed her fortunes from being 2-3% behind Obama nationally to being 5% ahead. If this sustains and/or widens we will only draw one conclusion. If you read the Obama supporting TNR, their comment section blogs you will see that even their readers are horrified by Obama's speech and association with Wright. See http://www.gallup.com/poll/105517/Gallup-Daily-Clinton-Holds-Onto-Lead-Over-Obama.aspx for polls and http://www.tnr.com:80/toc/story.html?id=3af8b076-e28d-473f-bca5-bf23d4805d0e. Not comfortable for Obama.

Kennybhoy

Trisha. Hello There! Please do correct me if I am missing something here, I am something of a stranger hereabout, but I was under the impression that the focus of the present discussion was Miss Phillip's article above criticizing Barrack Obama's association with, and indeed failure to properly condemn, the odious views of his pastor.....? In resorting to a tu quoque response, I was not making a general critique of the Daily Mail per se, much as I have come to loathe and abominate that rag, but merely pointing out Miss Phillip's inconsistency. Back in the discussion of The war against the Jews (4) THX, if he will forgive the familiarity of the diminutive, asked of Miss Phillips "Why do you never or hardly ever write about Israel in your Daily Mail Columns? Is it because you are asked not to or is that you don't think middle England is interested? By the way I'm not having a go I'm genuinely curious." As I wrote in my response, this is a good, insightful question... Is it perhaps that the Daily Mail's position on this subject is better represented by the likes of Peter McKay's sinister outpourings than by anything Miss Phillips might write....? And if this is so, then should not Miss Phillips act in accord with her stated views on Mr Obama and publicly disassociate herself from and, indeed, condemn such outpourings in the strongest possible terms....? Or would that be too close to home for comfort...? Even the Board of Deputies, ofttimes condemned by Miss Phillips for such failures to speak out, managed a timeous response to Mr McKay's article. Regarding Peter McKay's toxic emission in the Daily Mail of 25 February 2008 under the heading "Terror Tactics?". As previously stated there is no trace of same on the Daily Mail website, interesting that, or maybe not, but it can be read online in it's gruesome entirety at http://www.eiscablog.eu/commentariat-hatred-seeps-into-camerons-holocaust-education-gimmick-row Mr McKay's previous Daily Mail comments on the 2006 Israeli strikes against Hezbollah in Lebanon drew the following response from Arab media watch nae less! http://www.arabmediawatch.com/amw/Articles/ActionAlerts/tabid/74/newsid397/2888/THANK-THE-DAILY-MAIL--PETER-MCKAY-ON-LEBANON/Default.aspx Anyways! A pleasure making your acquaintance Trisha! God Bless! Kennybhoy

Francois

Obama is the Elmer Gantry for the socialist elites and various race hustlers. They loathe evangelical preachers, but turn around in awe for this polished equivalent - no more profound than a voodoo cult. What more proof does one need to see the superficiality of the supporters, including the press?

Cheryl

Much of America wanted to believe in Obama. I wanted to believe in Obama. He is well-educated, articulate and charismatic. His message is positive and hopeful. He is an inspirational public speaker. I have listened in eagerness, wanting to believe in him. Then I heard about his softly, softly stance on the Middle East. It is endorsed by ‘Mike’ on a post by Melanie just above this thread, where ‘Mike’ says: “Barack Obama, in my view, is the only candidate who will be able to restore America's standing in the world, starting with the Middle East and its multitudes of Muslim opinion.” We need to be concerned with the opinion in the Arab street, do we? Is that the same Arab street in places like Egypt, for example, where non-Muslims are made to live on heaps of rubbish? Where the children of dhimmis sometimes mysteriously go missing? Where the Arab authorities seem to want to keep non-Muslims on the rubbish heap (quite unlike Muslims in America)? What sort of credibility should we give to the opinion on this Arab street? Would they do the same to American non-Muslims if they got half a chance? I wonder. I want to believe in Obama so much because he is a successful, family man who appears to be a credit to the nation that produced him. But then I hear my nation – the freest one on earth – cursed by his pastor with phrases like ‘God damn America’ and suchlike. That’s just one example from what can only be described as a lexicon of hyperbolic spite. It is not that Wright is Obama’s pastor that bugs me, though. It is not that that Wright is Obama's friend that raises concern. It's the fact that Wright has been Obama's mentor that changes everything. He's a mentor who provided the title of Obama’s book. A mentor who provided him with his outlook on life. A mentor who celebrates the freedom, wealth and opportunity made available to him by his country by cursing it. I've had mentors. Many people have had mentors. I know how much my thinking has been shaped by my mentors. How much would you be influenced by a mentor who you knew and admired so closely for 20 years? Would they be your mentor if they held views like Wright's? Or is this the world's first mentor who doesn't pass on his views to you – only to his congregation? Well, my country comes before everything. It comes before party. It comes before Obama. And it most definitely comes before that malignant nutbag of a preacher.

Frank Pulley

Well said Cheryl! Here, FWIW, is my nutshell roundup: anyone who wants to hand over the West's 'Red Telephone' (or its neotechnological equivalent)to this smooth talking flim-flam man needs to book into a clinic to be treated for self-destructive tendencies.

Ann

"If you feel like your world view or sense of superiority is being threatened because you've seen a black man with the Intelligence and qualities of becoming President of the US" - ROFL. WHAT qualities? Can you be a bit more precise? Nil experience, perhaps? Fawning over a racist preacher for 20 years and then trying to wriggle out of it? What, exactly?

Ann

That was masterly, Cheryl.

yonason

"Obama stands for change." He couldn't get those closest to him to change, but he wants us to believe he can inspire change nationally? Put another way, he wouldn't scoop the litter box in his own house, but he wants us to believe he can manage keeping the park clean. Yeah, right!

Verity

Well said, Frank Pulley, Ann and Yonason. Twenty years of sitting in a pew listening respectfully to an ex-Black Muslim preaching hatred and bile and Obama, who may be an ex-Muslim himself - or may still be a Muslim for all we know -listened to it all calmly. Then he saw a threat to his over-mighty ambitions, and suddenly disavowed not the man, but his preaching. But surely over 20 years, he had sat through over a thousand sermons by this man without turning a hair? This is one bizarre dude.

Michael B

"Just wondering when your fine paper will cover the fact that John McCain gladly ACCEPTED the support of an equally crazy pastor. I won't hold my breathe. You guys wouldn't recognize a leader if he bit your on the arse. You prefer someone who speaks fluent BBQ to someone who speaks to you like you were an adult." John John McCain has no twenty year relationship with a minister whom he regards as his mentor and an inspiration, one who invokes racialist and even blatantly racist themes and who distorts the truth at a fundamental level in order to invoke social, moral and veridical themes. No one that even comes close.

Jo

Usually The Spectator is first out of the blocks. No summary or analysis of Obama's speech on Wall Street?

BMW

I personally will not forget...

BMW60

I am passing this on from another blog and hope you will see a black woman's take on this and Rev. Wright...

Rev. Wright Different isn't Defective.....Well Duh

by: 1 black Detroit mom aka vote theft victim #3

Sunday April 28th 2008 the Rev. Jeremiah Wright came to Detroit Michigan to address the Michigan NAACP. He gave a sermon with a very focused message, vote Barack Obama and I am not a racist. Well after listening to his sermon and taking time to absorb his oration, I am astounded at just how insulated Rev. Wright must be, ethnically, socially and culturally or is that just what he aspires for his followers?

Apparently the esteemed Rev. Wright has missed a large part of the world I live in. The world I live in is full of color and individual variances, we have blue, green, pink, red and any other color of hair we have people with a lot of cranial accessories (facial jewelry), we have heterosexuals working alongside homosexuals that do not experience discrimination and vice versa, we have white and black and brown and any color you can image that attend church together, work together, we live along side each other, we travel together, our children go to school together, we are involved in our community together, we dine together, we walk through the same doors, we drink from the same fountains. America has been changing, apparently Rev. Wright has not rather it would seem he has hidden from progress.

Rev. Wright was correct about one thing, "different is not defective". Guess what Rev. Wright. Most of America already knows that and lives it everyday. Although it appears the esteemed Rev. Wright has segregated himself and his community to the point that this concept is new to him. I am going to go Rev. Wright one better, different is not defective different is delightful. Rev. Wright different is beautiful, colorful, and interesting and in this day and age it is not discouraged it is encouraged.
Despite his constant subliminal Vote for Barack Obama "Change is coming" messages, it was apparent rather than seeking unity and progress he was using the art of phraseology and the beautiful spirit filled exuberance of the black church to put emphasis on his underlying message of separatism.

My roots are not in Africa, my ancestors were, my neighbors roots are not in Europe, their ancestors where, my roots are in America. I am a person of color, but I am a American I am not an African and make no mistake my loyalties lie with America Rev. Wright. I do not wish to separate myself nor my family from America I do not wish to see a black America and white America and yellow America and brown America.

Rev. Wright I grew up on welfare in "the projects". I am now a college graduate a wife and mother of 2 children. I will not teach my children to look for injustices because if they cant make it in this world and rise above the unfairness we all experience in life it is their own deficiencies not societies. If you teach children to look for injustices they will always find them and they will always see others of another color as out to hold them down, with an attitude like that they will never find successes.

I do not now nor have I ever nor will I ever tolerate Ebonics in my household, while we do not speak the English of England or Europe we do speak, in this house, the English of America, because Rev. Wright we are American's in this house. I am personally sick and tired of hearing all about the mother land Africa, yes our history is beautiful and colorful and sad and frightening and bright and vibrant but my mother land is America my ancestors mother land was Africa. I will tell you what apparently other blacks don't want to tell you or are afraid to tell you, if you feel so strongly that big bad whitey is out to get you and the mother land Africa needs so much help then you should leave you mansion in Illinois and go to Africa and do you nasty separatist work there.