With Israelis like these...

David Lindsay

You are beginning to sound like the Irish-Americans used to (and some of them still do), willing to do anything for the thirty-two county Republic/Greater Israel except actually live there, indifferent if not downright scornful towards the views of the people who do, and thus a significant barrier to peace.

John

Not many people dying in this 'war against the Jews' that you keep rattling on about are there? If I didn't know better, I'd conclude that you're a fear mongerer. Given the rational enquiry you've expended on MMR & global warming though, we should respect everything you say.

Rob

Levy's article is deranged, but I'm not sure that should bother us unduly. Like Pilger, he has his constituents, and he plays to them. I liked the following comment at Ha'aretz: "I don`t have any problem with true friends forcing Israel to make peace. But I`m curious as to who will force the Arabs to make peace with Israel. Isn`t one-sided peace no peace? Gideon Levy vilifies Israel and agonizes for those who would destroy it. He trivializes the murder of Israelis and is patronizing of the trauma those under a constant barrage of rockets suffer. Sometimes I wonder if Gidon Levy is entirely sane." Quite.

Tammy

"Not many people dying in this 'war against the Jews' that you keep rattling on about are there?" Er, no. When you come under attack almost every day from rockets you head for the air raid shelter.

A Chaffey

Anyone actually read the Levy piece which MP is supposedly commenting on here? I was interested to read in it the comments quoted by Levy of one (presumably Zionist) Knesset member addressing Arab Knesset members: "A day will come when we will drive you out of this house [the Knesset] and from the national home of the Jewish people." This seems to demonstrate pretty conclusively that the project of ethnic cleansing remains alive and well within Zionism and within at least some sections of Israeli society. But Levy's piece is otherwise pretty unremarkable, except for MP's reaction to it. How she can call it a "rant" and write as she does shows more brassneck than I ever dreamed possible. More interesting are the comments on Levy's piece posted on the Haaretz website. MP likes to highlight comments she judges beyond the pale. But there's some pretty nasty stuff here too. Arabs,we are told, are "morons" and "beasts". Also, "there is never a better Arab than a dead one." And there's an American Christian quoting from the Books of Numbers in praise of "driv(ing) out the inhabitants of the land", meaning for him/her I suppose muslims and Arabs. All pretty nasty, at least in my judgement. "Rant" over.

ahad ha'amoratzim

A. Chaffey, I would have to know more about the "driving out" language that you quote. A number of Arab MKs have openly visited and praised terrorist leaders who are committing mass murder against Israeli citizens, and working toward the announced goal of abolishing Israel. Israel has shown remarkable tolerance toward these MKs, who in any sane society WOULD Be expelled from the legislature and locked up. That's a far cry from ethnic cleansing.

yankel

The Na -Nachman Institute of Science in Chelm have published ground breaking research on a recessive X linked gene & Jewish self hate.
Na-Nachman now report on another gene effect called the Chomsky- Schleim-Landau syndrome. Gene carriers of CSL focus only on leftist issues that enhance a prior prejudice nursed since infancy. Na-Nachman psychiatrists believe Chomsky-Schleim-Landau is due to suppressed anger over delayed diaper change or unsatiated breast feeding,leaving a CSL carrier prone to anger, temper tantrums & in later life a Peace Now delusional state & Jewish self hate. Gideon Levy clearly is another Ha-Aretz journalist suffering from the Chomsky-Schleim-Landau syndrome.

A Chaffey

ahad ha'amoratzim. I owe a small apology for muddling two articles. The comments I quoted were in fact taken from another article in Haaretz "The vision of an Arab-free Knesset" by Shahar Ilan - 24 March, I think. The comments about driving people out I quoted are attributed in that article to Effie Eitam, leader of the National Union Party. There is a little more context in that article.

Bob Gray

David Lindsay: why should Melanie move to a country in which she was not born? But I guess you'd chastise me if I suggested that all Islamists who bang on about the 'injustices' in the Middle East move there.

Ben-Tsiyon

Interesting how swiftly this straight from the shoulder castigation of a traitor has brought the self-styled "anti-Zionists" out of the British woodwork, ever eager to support those who are working to bring down the re-born Jewish state. It's that miracle of the 20th / 21st centuries, the miracle of a people that has survived so many adversities over a period of some 2,000 years, including the loss of its homeland, preserved its national identity in spite of it, and returned to rebuild that land, that gets up their noses !

PHIL

Mr Lindsay do you think all british people need to emigrate to australia or canada in order to have an opinion about those countries and their friends/enemies -I hope your suggestion is not that Jewish people are not as British as you-my family who fought for this country in the world wars would have been very unhappy to hear that .Jews who are British are not israeli /British they are BRITISH

David Lindsay

Quite so, Phil. That's my whole point. But it's not me whom you need to be telling.

phil

DAVID lINDSAY-it may be that your first post was ambiguous so it would be a good idea to clarify what exactly you meant as I cant see why you agree with my last item if you meant the first .Most Jews I believe have an emotional attachment to the state of Israel ,the only Jewish homeland ,without wishing to be other than the Brits that they were born .We Brits still have an attachment to the commonwealth countries and we voice our opinions-what is wrong with that ?-maybe we have misunderstood your comments so why not clarify them ?

phil

Mr Chaffey some may wonder why I write a lot ,it actually may explain why people like Gideon Levy pour out their hearts as they do .To most Jews, the only thing that they can aspire to leave is a good name (a mench)so it is important for us to try to use what influence we have to bring about a society that we hope is a good and just one ,and by saying what we believe in ,we are trying to effect that -I do not agree with mr Levy,s conclusions ,but I do understand why he does what he does -He has compassion which I admire but he is wrong (in my opinion)---To suggest that one racist in the knesset represents Jewish opinion regarding the Arabs is a disgrace and the mans outburst was abhorrent to the vast majority.We have all had hateful comments thrown at us as we grew up,whatever our religion, but we surely did not attribute them to the religion or race from which they emanated -just ignorant people! ,PersonallyI want to see PEACE and justice for both Arabs and Jews ,which I have posted here on many occasions and I hope you will believe that my morality is that of the massive majority of Jewish people .Gideon Levy expresses kind but naive thoughts and are not reciprocated by the majority of those he seeks accomodate -I wish they were ,we would not be debating endlessly if he was right.

Scipio

Gideon Levy along with other Haaretz writers such as Amira Hass and akiva Eldar is one sick puppy. He needs massive psychiatric help - sort of like in Vienna with teams of shrinks in white jackets to evaluate him. Hamas would kill him just as quickly as they would Ehud Barak.

DBCJohn

Don't worry, Israeli Jews are not fooled by Levy and Ha’aretz. A quick search turned up the following poll results:
In 2006, a poll reported that 41% of Israelis were in favour of Arab-Israeli segregation, 40% believed "the state needs to support the emigration of Arab citizens," and 63% believed Arabs to be a "security and demographic threat" to Israel. The data went on to report more than two thirds would not want to live in the same building as an Arab, 36% believed Arab culture to be inferior, and 18% felt hatred when they heard Arabic spoken.
In 2007 the Association for Civil Rights in Israel released a report claiming that the expression of anti-Arab views had doubled, and anti-Arab racist incidents had increased by 26%. The report quoted polls that suggested, 50% of Jewish Israelis do not believe Arab citizens of Israel should have equal rights, 50% said they wanted the government to encourage Arab emigration from Israel, and 75% of Jewish youths said Arabs were less intelligent and less clean than Jews.

Views which I am certain will reassure various posters here.s

a. m .i .daft

thank you for the info dbc john where did you get your poll -not the gaza post by any chance ?

BCJohn

You are welcome Dr/Mr/Mrs/Ms Daft, the source of the 2007 report is given and is an Israeli organisation, the 2006 report was carried out by a polling company called Geocartographia (which seems to be pollong organisation widely used by many sectors of Istaeli society) for an Israeli body called The Centre for the Struggle (?) Against Racism.

Out of curiosity do you consider the views expressed distasteful, justifiable, not widespead enough, too widespread or exagerated/unreliable?

a.m.i.daft

dbjohn -ami will do and what I do find distasteful is your posts on a regular basis are supercilious .mostly unsound and invariably deprecating to Jewish people -will that do for a start? did you ever manage to walk down an east end street suitably attired as promised in january and did the orthodox Jewish patients really ask you to take off a cross -I really dont think so !!

DBCJohn

ami, re the walk, yes I did, Stepney Green to St Dunstan's Fleet St via Mile End Whitechapel Rd on the afternoon of Sat 15th March wearing a silver Byzantine cross over black crew neck and under blazer. That and the incident re Orthodox patients you will have to take on trust.

And your reply to my question above? Without wishing to be personal are you evading the issue?

ami daft

dr? john can you not see an answer when it is given ? I have checked your *pollong * organisation which as you say is used by a section of the *istaeli*society especially those that read the guardian where you got it from -really if you cant even spell do you think we should take you seriously?I think we should take more notice of the attire you walked down the east end in (sadly not even minus the cross which seems to be the only decent part of your ensemble )-I certainly remember mosley and the good hiding he got wearing a similar costume ,and by the way I do not believe any orthodox man would let you in his house ,that is if you are not mistaking yourself for a doctor (sorry fellow posters .he claimed this in January -check the internet ) I suppose I am living up to my name corresponding with you but you are doing better than me,as your nickname describes where your posts should go .

DBCJohn

Dear Ami, thank you for your very interesting comments re my spelling, which can be sloppy. But your grammar is faultless and the way you avoid personal abuse, and idle and irrelevant speculation, in your reply to my questions is appreciated. I am sure that either the Jerusalem Post or the Daily Mail would take you on as a leader writer. I retire defeated under the onslaught of your logic and warmed by your charm.

ami-daftorwhat

OK THANKS FOR THE KIND WORDS i KNEW YOU WERE REALLY A GENTLEMAN -ARE YOU ALSO A FAN OF TONY BENNET A WONDERFUL SINGER ?