Questions for the west

david skinner

The imminent catastrophe for the west will be for it to implode from its own self deceptions, denials and delusions which are the fruit of ideologies which, having trickled down over a period of several hundred years, have finally, monolithically and almost uniformly, cascaded and permeated into every recess of life- from the university to the check-out counter and finally to the nursery.

In his arrogance and audacity western man has constructed a self -serving, evolutionary picture of himself which has all the thrills and comfort of a religion (with himself at the centre, evolving into something ever more self -created, godlike and unique) and yet. which, at the turn of a switch - especially when he does something shabby and needs to camouflage himself as a speck of dust- can be switched off .

The secularist/ humanist/atheists/ materialist( SHAM) starting solely from what he can see and understand, vainly believes that all of existence can be reduced to impersonal energy and mechanics. All of life operates within a sealed box within which only the laws of chance and mathematical probability operate. We are merely highly evolved bio/socio/economical systems of chemicals- lumps of meat, different only in degree but not in kind from a microbe, virus or amoeba. What little life we do have is confined to aimlessly moving through a world plagued by war, famine and disease.. Perhaps the lucky ones were the 37 million babies in the USA and over six million in Britain who since 1967, have been trashed in the ubiquitous abortion clinic.
Categories, boundaries and definitions that we have lived with suddenly seem to be totally artificial. The distinctions between male and female, mother and father, human and animal , man and machine are all disappearing. This gives him the excuse not only to annihilate over six million Jews but to deconstruct everything around him, including the family, that would frustrate his desire for total freedom.

Absolute truth or as some one said “ true truth” no longer exists– everything is relative, there being as many answers to the big questions as there are individuals. A view may be tolerant, progressive, scientific or post modern, left wing or right wing, but to describe something as either true or false, will condemn one as being a narrow minded and a bigoted Neanderthal.

The SHAM believe that we are all programmed. Personality, free will and love are only illusions
There are no moral absolutes against which to judge whether an action is good or evil. This too is a matter of individual and shifting perception. So if it is the preference of one person to help an old woman walk across a busy street, while it is the preference of another person to push that woman in front of an oncoming truck, that is just the way it is. The only morally right thing - like Sinatra’s song - is to have done it your way. This is why people insist that all religious moralities are equal. None is better than another, except for those of course, like Islam which SHAMs regard as superior because they threaten Judeo- Christianity and for which they have an implacable hatred.

The whole of John Prescott’s Equality charter of self pity and a bogus victim status, is based not upon justice but upon the SHAM’s ideology of a category free, morality free, and truth free world. It has allowed him to indulge himself without limits.

If there is no ultimate, rational basis for belief in an absolute truth or beauty over and above our understanding then the logical conclusion is that nothing has any value; life is absurd, and meaningless. This explains why our children and teenagers are without hope and nihilistic.

Western man can only be saved by recognising that out of all creation he was created to a much higher calling than being superman and that he is ultimately answerable to a Creator. He also needs to recognise the inherent evil within his own heart and his need to be rescued from his own self- destructive nature and the irresistible supernatural forces, like Islam, that are about to overcome him. Technology is no match for a spiritual enemy.

Bob Latchford

I'm sorry, but taking the word of these people who convert from Islam to Christianity as gospel is just pointless. Would Ms Phillips be as quick to provide a platform for those who convert from other religions to Islam? Would they be held on a pedestool for us all to see, and would the degrading words they have to say of their former religion be forced on us as truth? This almost weekly 'example' of someone coverting from Islam to another religion that Ms Phillips is so keen to tell us about is lazy and pointless

Mike Woodman

Thanks Melanie, but where's the link to the article?

JJS

It's a blindness to logic, proof and evidence that has been brought about by a kind of guilt. And amazingly, it is all pervasive. As if carried on the breezes of the times.

Another example: when Zimbabweans were being 'persecuted' 30 years ago by a white government, we acted horrified and eventually did something. Now, when they are being persecuted even more by a black government, which we know is headed by a man as evil as anyone in his position could possibly be -- and who has betrayed the stated reason he sought to liberate his country from Ian Smith's oppression in the first place -- we tut tut but do nothing. Are we scared of being accused of being racist if we ciricise a black person? (Yet there is no similar fear of criticising Israel, because at bottom many people remain the prisoners of their DNA-inflected Jew hating paranoia.)

And likewise with anything Muslim -- our knee-jerk reaction is always that Islam "is a religion of peace, respect and honour." Even if there is no demonstrable evidence of that.

And the Islamists have so got our number!! They have found this remarkably wide chink in our armour, and can hardly believe their good luck!! As any good (or even bad) chess player would, they avail themselves of the advantage we offer.

And the rest, to paraphrase someone wiser than me, will be history.....

Richard

As Toynbee pointed out, cultures do not die of old age, but of suicide. When people project their own self-loathing towards the culture in which they live, they do seem to have some sort of perverse cultural death wish.

If the "conserve" in the term conservatism has to do with the conservation of civilizational values, then how does one define political stances when those values are already liberal by nature? Until people display that they are capable of seeing through this apparant paradox, it does seem that we will see an increasing erosion of true liberal values.

As to JJS's comments about people showing no fear of criticizing Israel, I would say that this is because people define its rsidents as white westerners. Despite the similarity in genetics, they describe Palestinians otherwise, and since the dominant meme they are replicating is that all evil arises from the west and only white westerners are capable of racism, they indulge in the necessary mental gymnastics to accomidate their own, very real racism.

david skinner

The story of Daniel Shaysteh converting to Christianity might not be verifiable or of any significance, in the same way that the Resurrection of Jesus Christ would be easy to disprove if the eye witness accounts had been just a couple of people and recorded a long time after the event, but the reverse is true. It is being reported that thousands of Muslims are turning to Christ, especially in those countries where persecution is often most intense. If the following report is false it will be easy to disprove.

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/21664.html

Sergey

Bob, do you understand that converting from Islam to any other religion is viewed by Koran as apostasy, which automatically put a death penalty on everybody who did it? This simple fact makes anyone who made this decision a hero, deserving our support and interest. No such moral dilemma exists to converts from any other religion, so your false moral equivalence claim is disingenuous.

verity

David Skinner - You speak of the "catastrophe for the West", but this is not the case. It will be a catastrophe for Britain and Europe unless we take immediate and aggressive action, but the United States is not mired in lefty British knock-kneed bishops and bien pensants. They have them, of course, but they don't have much traction.

There are 301m people in the US, around 40m in Canada, 100m in Mexico - meaning in N America, there is a population roughly the same size as that of the EU.

Then you have Central and S America. Another 500m.

Australia and New Zealand together, around 30m.

That's almost one bn people who are not committing cultural suicide.

Don't speak of "the West" as though the EU was some sort of representative of enlightment and political nous. They're committing suicide on our behalf and that the British government will not address this issue is causing mass emigration to freedom and enlightnment.

Commondog

Bob Latchford

I've only been monitoring this site for about a month but even so, I haven't seen any other item about Muslim converts to other religions.

What I have seen is the liveliest of comments, mostly - but by no means exclusively - supportive, interspersed with relevant and searching questions from those not disposed to the author's standpoint.

I wonder what problem you find with anything which speaks up for the West?

What problem does it cause you that people do convert from Islam?

Why would this column - knowing what you know about it - be a place where converts to Islam are lauded?

It's not that anyone is being put on a pedestool, or even on its close relative - a pedestal. It's surely though a relevant case for discussion, given the strictures placed on adherents to this particular religion?

Or is it religion, any religion, which you object to?

Being lazy is the lack of effort to come up with anything worthwhile.
And pointlessness? Taking up time or space which fails to develop or progress what went before, that's pointless.
Both of these qualities, you display in your post above.

david skinner

Bob has asked for those who convert from other religions to Islam to be held on a pedestal for us all to see. I am not sure Bob if, by this, you are suggesting that people who turn from Christ to Mohammed should also be given a hearing. I think you will find, however (and I admit I have no hard evidence for this) that it is not European Christians who are converting to Islam but those who have been brought up with secular values and are searching for some meaning and purpose in life, or women who are seduced by tales of the Arabian Nights and marry into Islam thinking it might spice up their lives . http://www.thelocal.se/8772/20071012

I am afraid to say, Bob, that the degrading words that Fuat Deniz, a Swedish university professor of Assyrian Christian background who was murdered late last year in Örebro, might have said about his former religion are all too true.
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2008/04/fuat-deniz-murder-case-closed.html

Verity, beg pardon if I have not made myself understood. I also believe that drastic action needs to be taken, starting with an immediate ban on the building of any more mosques and the shutting down of Muslim University departments and schools, something which get increasingly impossible as each day passes, because Britain no longer has the moral courage to do so.

Ann

"I think you will find, however (and I admit I have no hard evidence for this) that it is not European Christians who are converting to Islam but those who have been brought up with secular values and are searching for some meaning and purpose in life" - since you have nil evidence for this bizarre assertion, why do you keep on and on making yourself look silly with your venomous hatred of atheists and secularists in general, many of whom (like me) have a life full of meaning and purpose, and none of whom do you even begin to understand in your blind, mindless hatred?

Dave

The sooner adults stop falling for these ridiculous fairy stories (of whatever flavour) the better.

david skinner

Ann, It is not entirely true that I have not offered any evidence for this; listening the Swedish women who appears in the article http://www.thelocal.se/8772/20071012 and
who is supposed to come from a model atheist/secularist country, she makes no reference to having come from a Christian background. As for meaning and purpose in life, I would like you to spell out what that atheistic meaning and purpose is for Britain. As for hatred of atheism, I believe that it is as harmful for those who believe it - if belief is the operative word - as those who are effected by it. Just because I have a hatred of drugs, lying, stealing, gossip, promiscuity and homosexuality, and all the rest of it, does not mean that I hate those who practice these things, for by so doing I would be condemning myself. Ann, my hatred of atheism is not blind; just by listening to you I can clearly see what it does to a person.

phil

commondog .as you say you are relatively new to this site and you have been rather polite to latchford as you do not know his provenence -he writes continually to insult Melanie .Israel etc and is nor worth responding to as nothing worthwhile reading ever leaves his pen and his very name insults the memory of a great Everton striker :)

david skinner

It might be worth remembering who is in charge of the multicultural programme : Sir Trevor Phillips OBE, who already wants to bind us together in chains ready for delivery to the Muslims http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=483956&in_page_id=1770

Ann

Another venomous, mindless, ignorant rant from Skinner. He compares my atheism to lying and stealing - and then he has the nerve to accuse ME of hatred! Ever heard of motes and beams, you hate-filled, blinkered, narrow-minded, sad little man?

Commondog

Phil.

Thanks for the tip, although I had about sussed the bloke. A bit of a silent type when questioned, our Bob.

I wouldn't care but I was genuinely interested in hearing his expanded views. Seems it's the way of it with the left: run in, shout 'yer all nobs', and then away through the long grass. They call it dialogue.

In his defence, he's maybe rubbing his wintergreen in for the clash tomorrow, doesn't want to get his keyboard all greasy.

david skinner

Come, come Ann , I am sure with a little more thought you might have been a little more creative in your praise ; there are all manner of things you might have said about me personally, but I really must ask you not to throw away such lavish, personal endearments on someone who is so obviously a worm and so unworthy of your attention. Let’s just stick to topic in hand .

YA

David Skinner: religious way of thinking is, in evolutionary sense, more archaic than the rational one. First, religious thinking is less productive. Second, it tries to impose on humans behavioral templates characteristic to animals. You might write even more letters, it won't undo these two simple facts. When you draw a majestic image of The Great Christian Force fighting Islam, it only reminds me Attenboro movie where two mighty stupid goats batter each other by heavyweight horns. Wake up, it is 21 century around. Science, aesthetics, and moral have separated from religion long ago.

Bob Gray

I always read David Skinner's posts with interest and not a little admiration. Being steadfast and secure in his belief seems to unsettle a few people. I would describe myself as a 'Godless person' rather than an atheist - the term seems to imply diametric opposition, yet I do believe a lot of what Mr. Skinner has to say. I think some of his medicine would be efficacious in helping rediscover the country in which I grew up, the culture in which I feel comfortable.

Commondog

YA.

Your statement is indeed simple but to the point of leaving me stranded.
'Religious thinking is less productive' ?
Of what pray? (Oh alright then - please propound)

Your two goats there, bashing each other: one gets to have kids and eat the best grass, the other shivers on a rock and his line goes extinct.

Life, as gross as it often is, is, in the mind of religious people, worth it.

Yours is a death wish.

david skinner

Dear Ya,
One of the oft -repeated mantras, which has to qualify as one of the biggest expressions of religious faith ever stated in the whole history of mankind is that the 21st, progressive, technological, modern and century is so new that wisdom has come with us whereas nobody ever had it before. This really is to say the least debatable.
But nothing is new. King Solomon, three thousand years ago, claimed the same thing in his book Ecclesiastes. He too, after looking at the world, starting solely from himself, using nothing but his own understanding came to the conclusion that life had no real purpose or meaning. It was all vanity and that the best thing a man ( or woman) could do was to eat drink and be merry because this was all there was to life. Ya, you are only repeating what has been said ever since man was ejected from the garden of Eden. This is all there is.

You state that “Science, aesthetics, and morals have separated from religion long ago.”
On the first point, that of any section of society that was noted for its rationality it must surely be scientists. I was in fact led to the Lord by an eminent, Australian nuclear physicist, Professor Leslie Kemeny .
Though not a Christian or even a theist, Albert Einstein, I believe could be called a deist. He was quoted as saying :
“I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervour is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth," and "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."
"A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms—it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man."
“I want to know how God created this world. I'm not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details.”

James Simpson who pioneered the use of chloroform as anaesthetic said that faith was as natural as breathing. Despite his fame for discovering chloroform, Simpson said to all: "My greatest discovery is Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour".

Ya, may I recommend that you browse this huge list of scientists who claimed to have some form of Judeo / Christian faith: http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/evidence.html.

As for creativity, though this is not a man- made institution, marriage and the family as manifested in the Judeo /Christian form, with a mother and father, living monogamously and faithfully until death parts them, is perhaps the most creative expression of religion. Our present birth and abortion rate indicate that western Europeans will, if not die out, be overtaken by Muslims who are considerably out breeding us.
As for schools , hospitals, charities and great social reformers like Wilberforce and Lord Shaftsbury, and many industrialists like Cadbury and Rowntree, all these were motivated by the Christian faith.
Art and music are interesting ones. Arguably western, European civilisation’s greatest artistic achievements belong to the past. Nothing can match the experience of entering Chartres or Bourges Cathedral, listening the work of Johann Sebastian Bach or looking at a painting by Rembrandt or a sculpture by Michael Angelo. The art and music of today, though intelligent, brilliant and controversial also speaks eloquently of the death of our civilisation.

Ya, may I offer that we have become blinded by technological achievements whose beginnings started with the discovery of making fire, sharpening flint and the making of the wheel, none of which required any less genius than the discoveries of Einstein. But though each age can incrementally add to that knowledge and enable us to explore the outer limits of space ( Werhner Von Braun, the first Apollo scientist and rocket engineer was a committed Christian, as so was Buzz Aldrin who celebrated communion on the moon http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/astronauts.html) it cannot incrementally mature or become more human. Each human being has to start from scratch, carving out his or her own character. Look around Ya, do you really see much maturity or hope for the human race in the 21st century?

Elton Trueblood said,“The notion that we are living in such a fresh time and that wisdom has ’come with us’ whereas nobody ever had it before - this I find to be an absolutely intolerable conceit.”

YA

Continued: Consider religious practice of human sacrifices, designed to feed and appease a superior predator, or "higher authority" in general. Most likely, once it was an evolutionary breakthrough, when some genius of collective thinking understood that it is possible to kill or cripple someone of the pack and, leaving him/her as a meal for predators, to save the hassle for the rest of a pack. That guy was that times' Carl Marx, despite most likely still not, technically, a human. But human sacrifices in the name of the pack go on until now, under the banners of "True Religion". Even among non-religious people this "realpolitik" thinking is alive, one of its manifestation is a preparedness to leave Israel and Jews as a sacrifice, to appease higher authority. Question "Why?" has a simple answer. Fear. Animal Fear.

YA

David Skinner: where did I say that life has no meaning? It does; to discover Truth, Beauty, and to help others. You again write lot of commonplace stuff not related to question. Yes life has colours and scientists and artists have imagination. None of that involves believe in super-natural force as a necessary component. Religious type of thinking is transient between pre-human and rational mentality. That doesn't mean it is devoid of love or elegance or glory; that mighty goats are glorious; a mare loves her colt; orchids and peacocks are beautiful; they just think differnt from humans.

YA

David Skinner: "..do you really see much maturity or hope for the human race in the 21st century?..". Yes I do. I see twice as more people aged 80+ around, than even 30 years ago. They still suffer, but first you keep them alive, then you can help even more. NOT BECASUE OF GOD'S WILL BUT BECAUSE OF MODERN MEDICINE. I compare university handbooks and scientific articles issued 25 years ago and now, and I see difference. Knowledge and teaching becomes more intensive, sharp, abstract, detailed. Whole disciplines develop. GOD HAS NEVER HEPLED THIS, AND NEVER MENTIONED IN THE LIST OF AUTHORS. And, at last, - human heart, the heart of the West, is beating; remarkable movies, remarkable songs continue to appear, and mostly made by very young people. So I don't think your dismay is justified.. hehe.. gloom is the sin BTW, according to your religion.

david skinner

Ya from what you say you seem to have a great appreciation of life, beauty, colours, the natural world and the human heart. But what about death, illness, suffering and cruelty ? We take notice of death when it is dramatic and sudden as that associated with the Titanic, The twin Towers, or the Tsunami that suddenly carried away several hundred thousand lives and yet the death toll from driving, smoking, HIV, abortion and starvation in poverty-stricken countries, far exceeds that number- by millions each and every year- yet passes with hardly a moment‘s notice. Having said that when death comes as- it often does - knocking on a young life, full of potential, it appears not just incongruous and pointless but an outrage. It mocks everything that gives meaning, purpose and value to life.

Perhaps, however, you see beauty in this never ending cycle of disease, suffering, cruelty and death - in the survival of the fittest. But if this is not what you believe, that life is not just as it is - end of story, that not only is it not what it ought to be, but is even unjust, from where did you get this idea and what right have you to have it?

YA

David Skinner: I got this idea with destiny of my stem. Which isn't just physical way back to bacteria. There were some remarkable cellular agglomerates on this way. Like Plato, Galileo, Kant, Gauss, Bach, Camus, Darwin, Goya, Mahler, Fermi and so on. Again David, no unidentified superhuman creatures. We get what we are from humans, including ourselves. Freedom of choice, love, rivalry, creativity, death - all parts of the design. Immortality will also be given, eventually, by humans to humans. So simple picture, why don't you like it?

Terry

Why are leftist groups joining the fight by islamic fascism against democracy? Becaue the left doesn't believe in democracy. Don't let's kid ourselves. This is the same left that idolised stalin's new world order and observed it making treaties of imperialist conquest with the original nazis. The left hasn't changed to this day. It stands for a socially engineered hell society and total intolerance of those who disagree.

KateAa

Bob Gray: "I always read David Skinner's posts with interest ... Being steadfast and secure in his belief seems to unsettle a few people."

Bob, how strange. I always read YOUR posts because they radiate human decency and thoughtful balance, not to mention concern.

I tend to 'avoid' David Skinner because I feel his list of 'hate' targets is endless. It has been my unfortunate experience that religious fundamentalists are identical.

David Skinner's 'hates' are not so terribly far removed from those of Islamic ideology - secularists, humanists, atheists, drugs, lying, stealing, gossip, promiscuity and homosexuality (and, one suspects any Christian who does not subscribe to David's version of 'revealed' truth. The absence of 'degree' or distinction in his catalogue of hate is chilling.

At the same time he repeatedly advocates a politico/religious 'solution' which would dictate every aspect of one's personal, political and religious life because it must ALWAYS have reference to (D Skinner's interpretation of) 'The Book'. Again the similarity with Islam is chilling.

This topic is on a man who has converted from Islam to Christianity. That takes tremendous courage and, I have no doubt, a great deal of personal introspection.

I do hope he has not exchanged one fundamentalism for another. The branches of the Christian faith are many and varied - from extremists to the thoughtfully humane. The latter being those who live by the teachings of Christ the Jew. He who re-interpreted the OT Law so it would not undermine God's love for ALL his children.

I do NOT have have 'confidence' in Skinner's so-typical 'disclaimer' - hate the sin and love the sinner! It is a 'get out of jail free' card. I do not believe there is any Christian 'love', as I understand it, in the targeting of specific, mainly law-abiding citizens (secularists and gays) whilst ignoring the greatest danger facing Europe and Britain today, namely Islam.

Surely truly dedicated Christians should be out there, in Muslim enclaves, preaching the Gospel. Wonder why they don't? Christ didn't 'pick and mix' the groups he witnessed to. Of course, no secularist, humanist or gay is likely to beat a proselytising Christian to pulp in a dark alley. Funny, can't remember either, the last time I heard of a gay, secularist or humanist suicide bomber!

Ann

Excellent, Kate. Yes, one is struck by the cowardice as much as by the hatred and the hypocrisy. Christian love, indeed ...

david skinner

Ya forgive me for not always understanding what you are trying to say but I sense that you are into Artificial Intelligence, Singularity and Transhumanism.

If that is the case I want to ask how can that which is limited by space and time, the material, the world of mechanics and chemistry control the spiritual, that which is unlimited by space and time? How will a new biology, eliminating all mystery, give a complete account of human life, giving purely scientific explanations of human thought, love, creativity, moral judgment, and even why we believe in God. The threat to our humanity today comes not from the transmigration of souls in the next life, but from the denial of soul in this one, not from turning men into buffaloes, but from denying that there is any real difference between them. Indeed, the attempt to explain all of life from a purely materialist point of view is a frontal assault on the notions of human worth and dignity.
From my understanding Transhumanism has its roots in secular humanist thinking, it promotes the direct application of medicine and technology to overcome some of our basic biological limits. It views human nature as a work-in-progress, a half-baked beginning that we can learn to remould however we wish. For instance we could solve any population problem by uploading the minds of 10 billion people and running them on a computer that occupies a few cubic meters and costs only a few hundred dollars to run. Indeed the possibility of being physically melded to information and other technologies will no longer need the necessity of being recognisable as distinctly human. Just as human embryos are at the moment.
But who, Kurt, are going to be the ones controlling society? Who are the ones to define what constitutes a high standard of integrity and honesty; rationalist values; and maintain strict ethics? Who, apart from the present government, are the ones who, whilst denying that there are absolute values and morals, will impose their own set of moral absolutes?

You also seem to suggest that prolonging existence indefinitely, the conquest of death will also be an advance but how will those with prison life -sentences view this.? Or will you advocate humane, capital punishment - euthanasia.?

david skinner

I have no objection to being accused by committed, fundamentalist and bigoted humanists of this and that, in fact, not only do I regard such accusations - coming from them - as the highest compliment, but in reality they have understated it; I am the very worst of sinners. But when they come to misrepresent Jesus Christ, my Lord and Saviour, I do very much mind. The Christ whom they describe is a user -friendly/ touchy feely/ wouldn’t hurt and fly, tame irrelevance, a creation of their own wishful thinking - reflected in the proliferation of effeminate and feminised false clergy that we see in Britain, starting with Rowan Williams.

Statements like, “Jesus Christ the jew, (He) who re-interpreted the OT law so it would not undermine God’s love for ALL his children” come from only one place, a place that is still in the process of being prepared and getting hotter by the second.

In Matthew chapter 5, starting at verse 17, the Jesus, as revealed in the Bible says,
” 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

I didn’t say that, He did.

What about Matthew 10 :26:
"So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. 28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”
Or :
“If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.” Matthew 5:29

People are quick to quote John 3: 16 which says,
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him,” but they fail to go on to the following verse18,“Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.”

The shocking truth, that one will never hear preached today, because clergy have become too cowardly ( and I don’t blame them , because as Ann rightly points out, I would be just as Evanjellyfish as they), is the fact that the whole of the human race is only fit for eternal destruction, none of us qualifies to be in the presence of God; we have all gone astray. So that we will not have to go through the eternal torment of hell, Jesus Christ suffered on the cross , in our place so that you and I would not have to go there. That my dear Kate was not Jesus Christ re- interpreting or watering down the scriptures but fulfilling them.

Ann

Quoting reams of scriptures at me and condemning me to eternal hell fire - and then he calls ME 'fundamentalist and bigoted'. Pot and kettle, Skinner - or motes and beams.

david skinner

Dear Ann, God loves you infinitely more than I ever could , but you sound like someone storming into the radio and navigation room of the Titanic, just prior to its sinking, shouting don’t quote me all that stuff from your radio signals and charts, just tell me what I want to hear. The Christian only has the Bible to navigate his way along a route that has only one change in his journey, at a station called the first death. After that the final destination is judgement. For some this will be a second death whilst for others this will mean eternal life. But you can only your choice in the first part of the journey, in this life, not the second.

phil

David S what is the purpose of the continual sermons you are posting here -conversion is not on the menu and when you attack people like KATE A I think you are going to far -Kate is one that writes about decency and compassion without the need to quote endlessly from the bible -I do not doubt that you try to live in the way you believe your religion teaches you .but many of us do the same -it is very patronising to try to teach us your way -I certainly do not accept it is better than mine.
I for one search my soul for the answers and I do not doubt Kate does too-why not try searching your own soul for political answers to our problems ,you will not find them in the bible -try using pragmatism and the sense of right and wrong that god endowed all of us with.and stop this endless teaching battle between old/new testament /Koran .

david skinner

Phil, Kate is obviously far more of an authority on what and what is not true Christianity than I will ever be; I am, after all, only another venomous, mindless, ignorant , hate-filled, blinkered, narrow-minded, sad little man. I quite agree. There is also no way that I would want to argue with someone like Kate, whose decency and compassion is an example to us all and who took her primary degree at the Queen’s University Belfast, one of the last bastions of best academic achievers in the British Isles! So, if truly dedicated Christians should be out there, in Muslim enclaves, preaching the Gospel and she is so eminently qualified, why I ask myself doesn’t she do it herself ?

Phil, I hate to tell you this but conversion is very much on the menu . Whilst you, Kate and Ann are searching your soul for answers, Islam in ten, twenty years or less will have converted you - by means of terror. Meanwhile, during the interregnum, between this and the demise of Christianity in Britain, the secularist/ materialist government is busily converting its population by means of diversity training and conditioning, and a great raft of legislation that will have the power to impose evolutionary humanism on the population, through threats of public humiliation, fines, loss of job and terms of imprisonment. All this has already started and obviously you are all for it.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/mick_hume/article716301.ece

http://www.christian.org.uk/rel_liberties/cases/harry_hammond.htm ( Persecution and death of Harry Hammond even though Bournemouth Pride is deeply offensive and a moral threat to holidaying families and their children)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article2617655.ece ( 7 years prison).

http://www.christian.org.uk/rel_liberties/cases/green_ake.htm (Swedish pastor narrowly escapes prison for reading from the Bible).

phil

David your self flagellation is by your own hand .no,one has disrespected you .certainly not me -but I do not have to agree with you .nor will I convert to any religion .it is not necessary -God and not a preacher will judge both of us so I suggest you think hard about that -I don't doubt you wish to be a good person but you could be mistaken you know -the Pope himself has corrected the past teachings of the church .so if you think of kindness and goodwill to all men I believe you will follow a wonderful path just like Kate and me :)

david skinner

OK Phil. Let's leave it there; I think we have gone as far as we can go. Thank you for the discussion and look after youself.

Lynne T

David Skinner:

Prof. Barrie Wilson of York University, Toronto Canada would tell you that what you believe in would be more accurately described as "Paulism" -- the beliefs promoted by a man who may have lived at roughly the same time as Jesus, but never actually met him. Wilson points to Jesus's actual followers, particularly his brother James, as a better way to guage Jesus's belief, primarily the question of the rejection of Judaism. Wilson says there is no reason to believe that Jesus rejected Judaism, that this was Paul's move, motivated in no small part by a desire to promote his new faith to the Romans and other Hellenized peoples. http://www.barriewilson.com/

My point, if it isn't clear, is that to go on citing New Testament Scripture is not necessarily to share the beliefs of Jesus and his closest followers.