The thumb on the British windpipe

Dominic L-R

Although I have much sympathy with many of Melanie's complaints (which is one of the reasons I read this blog), I fear that the tone of this posting is unlikely to be helpful. The overstatement is bordering on deranged. Yes, there has undoubtedly been "intellectual bullying and intimidation" from some quarters, but to claim that this has resulted in "a public discourse from which truth, evidence and rationality have been exiled" is preposterous. For instance, the recent debate on the embryology bill showed measured opinions on both sides of the debate in all the major newspapers. I am certainly not suggesting any kind of appeasement of bone-headed ideas, but this kind of overstated rant is inaccurate, intellectually dishonest and makes the chances of ever changing anything virtually nil.

john doe

Melanie must have been in a really bad mood this morning. This article is a masterpiece of abrasive, righteous indignation and moral ferocity. That last sentence should go down in journalistic history as an example of a no-holds-barred and uncompromising calling-a-spade-a spade hatchet job.Excellent! keep up the good work, exposing the bitter and twisted ideological axe grinders corroding the body politic.

John East

Our cultural decline might meet stiffer head winds thanks to the effects of our economic decline. There's nothing like a good recession and the resulting realisation that we are taxed to death to force change at future elections. When we can no longer afford to keep the parasitic intellectual elite in their sinecures will be when our society starts to improve.

Dee Ranged

Melanie

Spot on.

steve

Well put Dominic!

Commondog

Yet again, this commentator goes in and does the job that most needs doing.

Pins down concisely and precisely, an issue which although crucial, is given very little airing.

Proof of its pinpoint accuracy in hitting a soft spot is the first comment: when they come back with this kind of measured, faux reasonability, you know they're winded.

steve

"The result is a public discourse from which truth, evidence and rationality have been exiled"- how does this point apply to the government's recent decision to reclassify cannabis, a move that Ms. Phillips supported? The evidence indicated that drug consumption had dropped since it was declassified. The reason the Brown government shifted gears was because of politics not because of a rational approach to the question that looked at the available evidence.

Jon_Boy

Melanies is spot on here. For ages I have noticed that the UK, much of Europe and Israel are dominated by intellectual and other elitest leftsts.

Where I might not be a fan of the other groups Mel mentioned she is actually right when she says we badly need them just as an alternative to the complete elitest domination that pervades much of Europe and Israel today.

I think that much of the anti America feeling from the European and Israeli left is in contempt for the fact that America is stupid enough to allow more people to have access to the media and a say in how the country is run.

They themselves do not tolerate this and therefore have societies which are dominated by only a small cross section of hard left leaning intellectuals and other elites.

Of course America is by no means perfect but it does traditinally allow more of its society to participate more fully in the national media and have more meanigful say in how the country is run compared to the Europeans and the State of Israel, which is unfortunately too much based on the elitest European models.

Unfortunately Melanie I think larger think tanks would not work in the UK as they would simply just reflect the current situation with the same old usual suspects. They would simply not allow the general public to have any kind of meanigful input at all.

Also with out something being done about the BBC everything would be rendoured meanigless as the BBC dominates and feeds peoples opinions. People seem to think that they have 'Their own view' when in fact ask people what their opinions are on most current affairs subjects in the UK and they will robotically regurgitate the BBC line they heard the night before.

Dominic L-R

Commondog: you refer to the first comment by me and you talk of 'they'. Just exactly who are the 'they' you are referring to? I happen to agree with Melanie on many points (e.g. Israel, education). I also disagree with her on many points (eg religion, global warming). This tendency to split people into 'us' and 'them' camps is detrimental to any debate. This posting by Melanie makes the same mistake, which ultimately stifles debate since the 'sides' have no interest in listening to each other. This is a football team mentality and should have no place in this kind of discussion.

roGER

Britain’s spiral of intellectual, moral, social and political disintegration (yes, I am indeed understating the case)

HAH! HAH! HAH!

Brilliant, Mel even by your standards!!!

Verity

Jon Boy - I have been saying for years that the BBC needs to be taken to a crossroads during the full moon and be shot with a silver bullet, after which it should have a stake driven through its heart. (The garlic's on me!)

Joanie

Melanie is absolutely right.

It goes well beyond what’s happening in our universities. Taking in almost any form of British culture is now like having to drink from a river into which the Left has emptied the sewer of its beliefs.

The Right doesn’t go in for attempted mind control like the Left, so you don’t see heaps of Right wing plays or comedians lecturing people on how to think. Quite the reverse is true of the Left, which is how we’ve ended up with their fetid cultural hegemony.

If anybody dares to transgress these boundaries, they are not allowed to carry on and defend themselves, but simply excluded from mainstream media outlets.

He’s not my cup of tea, but I don’t see why Roy Chubby Brown shouldn’t have his stand-up shows shown on television. But “Chubby’s” mistake is that he takes on the terrorists. Bad Chubby. You go slate America and Christianity and you’d have got yourself an entire BBC 2 series, just like the appallingly witless “Jerry Springer – the Opera” writer, stand-up Stewart Lee, who’s just been given his own six–part series on BBC 2.

Barely a month goes by when I’ve not had to sit through a new piece of writing in the theatre or a stand-up show where I’m just subjected to nothing more than a soap box rant against America, the West and so on.

Personally, I have always seen much sense in Mr Quentin Crisp’s view of the theatre as set out in his manual ‘How To Have A Lifestyle’. What business is it of a playwright to brainwash me? But The Arts Council won’t go in for that sort of thinking. They don’t give out money for entertainment. For them, a piece of theatre has to be addressed to this or that “community”. Peddle some thinly veiled anti-American trash in a play and they’ll throw money at you.

The irony that so many of these meejah dweebs wouldn’t be able to challenge the authorities - even in a subtle way - in places such as Iran, seems to escape them. Any opposition to a nutbag such as I’madinnerjacket is met with dumb insolence or more anti-Americanism.

Look at Dubai, where so many of London’s canting media set have sauntered off to for what they think is Canary Wharf in the sun to work on Western franchises of newspapers and magazines out there. But guess what? It’s an offence to criticise the Dubai authorities in newspapers out there – ah, a little wake-up call for our little wannabe dhimmis with more coke up their noise than sense in their heads.

So what do they do? Why, skip back home to come and criticise the societies where they have freedom of speech.

Don’tcha love the little weeds?

There is no counterbalance to the meglomaniacs of the East. They silence criticism at home and can rely on the useful idiots in the West to help their agenda by watching them turn their fire on hard won Western values. Once their pathetic little stalking horse has done its job, it’s Caliphate here we come.

I wonder if you saw Question Time last night, Dominic L-R. There was a question about Turkey joining the EU and one member of the audience said words to the effect of: “What if Turkey stops being a secular Islamic country and elects a hardline Islamist government?” Another member of the audience immediately renounced this as being “Islamophobic”. The man couldn’t even pose a simple question without being pounced on. This is the sort of “bullying” Melanie refers to.

The Left are often well aware of the flaws in their arguments and when they can’t face up to them, this is what they resort to. Accusations of “Islamophobia”, or Madeleine Bunting putting her hand over the microphone when someone tries to read passages from The Koran.

http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1395

I don’t ask that we have the acres of Left wing propaganda replaced with Right wing propaganda, but I do ask that people might get a voice to challenge their lies, distortions and censorship of what they don’t want people to hear.

Dr. Irene Lancaster FRSA

These are my experiences when travelling down to the BBC to help them with their webpage on Israel. The conversation with the taxi driver whose firm is contracted to the BBC, and the BBC reaction to his views on Jews are both interesting, as is the ensuing conversation at the BBC, should was surprisingly positive:

http://irenelancaster.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/05/a-thursday-morn.html

phil

Dominic,you are right that we should debate more calmly with one another,but it cannot be denied that the many of the younger ones in our society are tilting to the left -viz our debate with Aberystwyth uni some weeks ago and worse still the brain washing by many professors within those universities -check this thread ,roger and steve to me are symptomatic of so much of what is wrong ,destructive criticism and no solutions just sneers .I grew up in a land where ones family name and reputation was important ,where police were respected along with doctors -I never heard of attacks in hospitals or girls rolling drunk in the street boasting of their sexual conquests ,nor a land where george galloway would host a popular radio programme, of course I could go on but I think I have made my point -something is wrong and we now need to address it -sometime ago I half jokingly suggested putting the soccer hooligans in stocks in the centre of their towns for all to mock(not attack) -I would like to bet they would not wish to return as "respect" seems to be their currency-only this week in Manchester a policeman was nearly killed by these lunatics-I assume the lad will get some community service or a paid holiday -am I cynical?
Mel is right to highlight our problems even if she is sometimes a little severe for some .She normally is right on the money and I continue to applaud her although not always agreeing with her

phil

Joanie wonderful post -there is so much to say isn't there ?the left is only more fashionable than the right because of the shame of the second world war ,the extreme right or left is equally bad .but because the left claims to be socialist they get away with it -they haven't tried Stalinism here yet and he killed more than hitler -well done J

DB

The UK Film Council is another quango that needs sorting out. For example, recently it gave £5,000 to help promote US box office flop Redacted - Brian De Palma's grotesque hit piece on the armed forces of our ally in war – even though the film was funded by a dotcom billionaire.

Commondog

Dominic L-R

'They' refers to anyone who fudges around the facts with obfuscatory and flabby verbiage, thus:

"there has undoubtedly been 'intellectual bullying and intimidation' from some quarters, but to claim that this has resulted in 'a public discourse from which truth, evidence and rationality have been exiled' is preposterous"

You try walk into any education lecture hall, classroom or staffroom and try arguing outside the recognised boundaries, you'll soon find out how preposterous this statement isn't. Any questioning of the one dimensional leftist, anti-West, anti-Israel, 'not in my name' lobby is done on a basis which is recognised by all concerned as token, the real business to be resumed as soon as possible.

This is the state of exile which truly exists. The description of it, accurate.

The above piece is no 'rant'. It might be shocking, simply because there is hardly anyone else with the backbone to say it. "Intellectual dishonesty"? that's my favourite, there's your flabbiness. What is dishonest here, or did you read it recently and its scansion appealed?

"Stifles debate"? That's the very point: what debate?

"I am certainly not suggesting any kind of appeasement of bone-headed ideas, but...".
What an old one that is, roughly translated means, "perhaps we might think of appeasing"

Merely to flash your credentials as a broad-minded Melanophile on most occasions, who just wants a lovey-dovey going on, doesn't give any weight at all to your points.

Who are the "they" I referred to? Well if your name's on it I presume it's you, and all those people stood at the other end of the football pitch next to you.

David McAdam

Hear, hear, Melanie!
I've just graduated with an Open University accredited BSc in Social Science (so - called). Succinctly, this course was a tiresome five year toil in which my natural common sense was relentlessly subjected to un-natural linguistically, high fulooting postmodernist drivel of the most intolerable kind. Challenging this essentially deconstructionist/social contruct waffle dominated course content was met with regular summary red ink disapproval. For example, British identity was presented as a fiction and as such was always bracketed e.g. 'British' whilst there was no doubt or question about non -European identities. Contesting this assertion attracted the various labels of 'imperialist,' 'Eurocentric,'or the tediously repetative 'racist' epithet. Indeed, the course content labelled Japan a 'racist' nation simply because the country had no immigration policy. Christian and socially conscious individuals such as the formidable Octavia Hill were presented either as feminists that challenged 'patriarchy,' or 'middle - class' intruders that imposed 'middle - class values' upon the 'working class'. Of course when I pointed out that Hill did what she did for the poor out of Christian love and not because she had some ideological axe to grind,my point was totally ignored. We all know academia's relativist, Gramscian script re - liberal defined victim groups, two parent families, marriage, the family unit, church, sexual orientation,and 'gender'. It's unfortunate at present that this script continues to be determined by the distorted, rotten thinking of the left that controls the composition of university texts. As a mature student I was alert enough to distil the chaff from any decent crop of information that remained in the course content - hardly enough to make a decent bowl of porridge, figuratively speaking. I dread to think of the 'social science' course's indoctrinaire impact upon impressionable young students barely out of sixth form. It is to this vulnerable group that we owe a reconstruction and common sense restoration of academic discourse and its potency.

Frank Pulley

Joanie

I think we can safely assume that you are not Johann Hari posting under a soubriquet. Hope we hear a lot more from you on this blog.

Dominic L-R (and steve).

Your squeamishness is despicable and part of the problem. Sadly, few speak with the passion and lucidity of our host. The tenor of Melanie's remarks echo the thoughts of millions of people in this country who have watched in dismay as Gramsci's disciples have carried out his game plan to the letter. Far from being overstated, her powerful post is a comprehensive diagnosis of the ills of our culture and heritage and the root causes of the maladies. It is probably too late to repair the damage done by the metastases of cancerous communism to all the cultural edifices that served us so well for centuries; but Melanie's clarion call should be a starting point for an attempt to reclaim some of the lost ground. I wish people would stop calling righteous anger 'unhelpful'. The case against the counter culture cannot be overstated and should be shouted from the rooftops. Rout is the exact word, Melanie. Too much PC pussyfooting from craven journos has allowed much of the leftist crap to go unchallenged and keep much of the electorate in the dark. Keep it going, gal! The stronger the language the better: don't know how you can produce such invective without scatology but you do. And if you can't stand the heat, get of of the kitchen Dominic and steve! Your attempt to justify your craven stance by patronising her with faint praise "I agree with Melanie much of the time, but ..." raises my puke to near eruption.

By the way Jimmy - what happened to my previous comment on this thread? I know I haven't Melanie's talent for cursing without swearing, so to speak, but it wasn't all that strong!

Michael B

Restore a liberal society, yep, that would be nice, that would be grand. Good for Browne, a substantial piece which addresses a stratum that certainly needs to be addressed.

The hegemons in academe (who quite seriously fancy themselves as "open minded," doncha know) are an amusing lot, they essentially and in large measure provide a type of self-caricature and self-parody, a type of form wherein substance is vastly mitigated and at times is entirely absent. Yet people in general go about business as if all is well.

Saving the appearances.

But these academes form a type of priesthood vested by the state and it's inoften that a priesthood, vested in that manner, gives up power willingly. They will huff and they will puff and they will huff and puff - and they will blow your house down if at all possible before they will give up a feather-weight of their power.

Much enamored of theyselves, they are, very much indeed.

Ann

Dominic, you are wrong on every count. News about the USA and the ME, for example, is distorted every day of the week to fit the deranged leftist agenda. And when I say 'distorted', that's putting it mildly. The outright lies pushed not just by the Guardian and Independent but the BBC, have become gospel to all but a few knowledgeable and honest people. Anyone trying to counter those lies meets absolute denial, as the many documented examples on the Biased BBC site demonstrate.

BenSix

What a dreary piece of propaganda, Melanie, and I speak as a 'leftie' who hasn't yet had the chance to be brainwashed by the universities.

I think that citing Fox News and the Evangelic Churches as examples of brave warriors for a liberal society represent a new low. Do Bill 'Hitler would be a card-carrying ACLU member' O'Reilly and Jerry 'of course [the Antichrist] will be Jewish' Falwell really stand among your heroes?

ag

David McAdam, if your course was so bad or you disliked it so much why did you stay on it?

As to the rest, we had 15 years where right wing ideas were to the fore in this country despite the universities, the BBC and so on. The trouble is the party that espoused those ideas failed and those ideas were considered bankrupt. I accept that there is no-one with much credibility expressing a non-left wing agenda (although Cameron is trying hard) but I also suspect that if the ideas were truly attractive to the majority they would get listened to more.

Joe Strummer

I must admit I always quietly chuckle when the issue of British cultural life and the phrase "liberal society" are intertwined.

Our so-called British intellectual elite, our cultural, creative industries and television media are anything but "liberal" in the real sense of the word to those who don't hold the replicated, dogmatic extreme left-wing views of those holding the reins of power...or more realistically, agreeing with the views of those handing out those nice fat big money cheques be it local authority art council grants or juicy long term BBC contracts. Its only the "little stupid people's" money anyway they are doling out so what do they care or would they even understand.?

One wrong word or opinion of dissent on the left-wing official line on issues such as Israel, the USA or Northern Ireland will see career suicide rapidly beckon.

Those dreams of joining the coterie of pretentious, pompous fools who control your chosen field of work are over. You are now officially out of the social and employment loop for your heretical beliefs. That little faux-pas at the Islington dinner party of saying you thought Mrs Thatcher wasn't as bad as she is depicted which silenced the dinner table has suddenly cost you everything.

We don't have a free thinking intellectul society where all views are up for debate and to be challenged but rather a repressed, retarded, sick meeja society where a left-wing McCarthyism will crush anything opposing it.

Tas Walker

Which is why creationist groups have had to set up outside the university system to challenge the creation/evolution issue. What is accepted on this issue affects absolutely everything else. That is why the movie Expelled is greeted with such scorn and hatred from the left; because it challenges their root assumption. Have a look at the vitriol from this academic institution, The Geological Society of London:
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/5737/

Roy

Another admirable piece of summing-up by Melanie.

THX1138

Tas-Sorry but the reason that creationist groups have to set up outside the university is really simple, creationism and it's bastard prodigy intelligent design is insane crazy rubbish with no right to be taught alongside evidence based science.

Fabio P.Barbieri

Tas - this is the first time I find myself having to agree with THX1138, and I sincerely hope it is the last. Creationism is a joke (incidentally, it was rejected by Pope John Paul II - I suppose he is also part of the crushing left-wing consensus?) and the movie Expelled shows even less understanding of any kind of evidence-based knowledge than one would expect from a comedian. I only have to quote one enormity: that he claims that the fact that two different human species, one more advanced than the other, can be found to have existed at the same time, disproves the theory of evolution. Anyone who can produce such an enormity has no business getting out of bed in the morning, since he clearly does not know what planet he is living on. It does not demand refutation, so much as laughter. Stick to stand-up, Mr.Stein.

That is not to say that the prevalence of pseudo-liberal relativism and multi-culti know-nothingism is not an issue. A country where real intellectual debate took place would have no place for anyone as crude and ignorant as Richard DAwkins, let alone reward him with a "chair of the public understanding of science". That Ben Stein is a dolt does not mean that some of his opponents are not jokes.

Frank Pulley

ag

You write: "The trouble is the party that espoused those ideas failed and those ideas were considered bankrupt."

Tony Blair and Gordon Brown didn't think they were bankrupt; they were shrewd enough to adopt them as their own ideas in many respects. But then they spent the funds accrued by Thatcher & Co with wild abandon, bribing a whole generation into social dependency and setting up the biggest bevy of useless labour- voting quangos and other crony organisations which have not only bled the country dry, but landed it deep in debt. They have also filched vast amounts from the National Lottery Funds and blown that too on weird social projects. Let's not forget the Dome either! Now they are blaming extra-mural financial pressures. They weren't so keen to give credit to extra-mural influences when things were going good. That was all down to Brown's 'brilliance' as chancellor, according to the Nulab noddies.

The game is up! Just go quietly and let someone else clear up the mess, it's quite obvious that Brown's piebald 'successor' can't, even with the puppet meister still pulling the strings.

Dominic L-R

Despite the rather aggressive rebukes to my comments ("makes me puke" and "your squeamishness is despicable"), I stand by my original thought - particularly that phrases like "a public discourse from which truth, evidence and rationality have been exiled" are overstated. Some of the commentators on this site seem to think it a bad thing that I agree with Melanie Phillips on some aspects and disagree on others. Isn't this what most reasonable people actually do? - i.e be honest and say when you agree, even if someone isn't on 'your team'.
At the risk of raising the ire of Frank Pulley and Commondog to boiling point, let me say why I think this case is overstated.
Two examples: With respect to Israel, I agree that the liberal left has poisoned the debate and shuns anyone who even suggests sympathy with Israel. This is truly a deplorable state of affairs. So far so bad.
But this one-sided bullying is not true in every debate. In education, for years there has been a left-wing philosophy that has done much damage to the education system. However, I feel the tide is beginning to turn. For instance, Synthetic Phonics is now taught in over half of all primary schools. For years this method has been derided by left-wing thinkers as old-fashioned, rule-based and stultyfying. (not creative enough, I suppose..)And yet it is now being taught. Why? For the simple reason that it is the most effective way to teach young children to read. The evidence shows this unequivocally. If "truth, evidence and rationality" has been exiled from public discourse, how come synthetic phonics is being taught?
All I am suggesting is that the stranglehold of Gramscian thinkers on the culture is not quite as strong as is being suggested.

Verity

Heroic once again, Frank Pulley!

I note you ask James Forsyth, who is one of those who is attached to the word "unhelpful", what happened to your previous post.

I would like to know what happened to mine, as well. It was written with clarity and economy and did not refer to any ethnic group or gender group or disadvantaged group or religion, yet failed to make the cut.

Perhaps Mr Forsyth could issue his editorial guidelines for posters so we don't waste our time. We do, after all, write for free.

If Mr Forsyth only wants anodyne posts that toe the Gramscian guideline, he should let us know so we needn't come back.

phil

Dominic the problem with these threads apart from the racists.who waste space and make fools of themselves ,is that some of the posters who actually can and do write some sense ,cannot waste an opportunity to be sarcastic or to put down other posters even though they virtually agree with one another -I see you have run into mr Pulley and his "wit"-nothing new so have I ,even though I think he usually agrees with my input but not my style -I am "to nice" for him:)-so do not be put off-I cant agree with the stronger sentiments you expressed about Melanie but I have a lot of sympathy for the more subjective criticism of what is happening in our country.so I don't know why you got on the wrong side of Commondog who is always a sensible poster.I gathered he just wanted you to be tougher still.
We have good moderators here and I admit occasionally to have been pulled but only when I have gone in too hard with the racists ,so it would be interesting to know what mr Pulley was pulled for .surely not being rude ? Come on Frank smile and tell us what you did:) be nice -I am already ducking

Dipper

well unless I just missed something, the free-market capitalist system has just thrown in the towel and gone to the state and asked to be saved from itself. So the left now has a proper basis from which to address the issues of the day.

Which makes the situation you address above all the more disappointing.

Commondog

Dominic L-R

The synthetic phonics thing has to be welcomed right enough, but I think that leaves us still way off the sea-change you seem to perceive.

For one thing, why and how does it take a whole profession of intelligent people, forty years plus, to come to the realisation that they broke up a perfectly working system and replaced it with something which has deprived generations of children - now a large proportion of the adult population - of the single most important skill of literacy? They cannot tell other people what they really think and feel because the words have not been put there in sufficient depth.

To do that as part of a political strategy requires a very special vanity, and a wicked indifference to the young people in their charge.

Even now as you state, we still have half of primary school kids - well, suffering is not too strong a term - and in the face of as you say unequivocal evidence, and for what? The phrase 'dragging and screaming' is apt.

And this is just at primary level. Where the real mind-cramps are fitted is further along the way.

One example: the state school teaching of Poetry in England is weakly structured, spiritless and totally adrift from any idea of the crafting of verse, simply because there isn't time for any of that nonsense when there is an ideology to be grafted onto their little blank slates. So many junctions of opportunity to take a left or... another left.

And soon enough they find themselves at Uni, all primed up and ready to absorb the full treatment, or challenge it and be this intake's pariah.

Mine is not ire Dom it's just I can't see how in such a grossly and unhealthily one-sided situation, that the gravity of this imbalance can be articulated by anything short of directness. Your temperate approach, although commendable is insufficient for what I see as the job at hand.

Robert Wood Ottawa Canada

Given the political nature of enviro-mentalism, all enviro groups should have their charity status removed.

Water

“At the heart of Britain’s spiral of intellectual, moral, social and political disintegration (yes, I am indeed understating the case) lies the intellectual hegemony of the left” as a person who just finished university I couldn’t agree more.

Frank Pulley

Don't worry Verity; keep plugging away - what does make its way through from you despite the filtration process is supportive of our hostess, withering, informative and highly entertaining. And I comfort myself by imagining that there is even better company on the spike than on the blog at times. You just confirmed it.

verity

Phil, the mahatama, do tell us which "racists" you personally were "too hard" on.

I have never seen any racist comments here and am puzzled. Which races were Spectator readers belittling (I find this very hard to imagine, to be candid) and how did their comments slip past the moderator? - only to be caught by the vigilant Phil!

Let us know which race you refer to, and before you jump in, do bear in mind that Islamm is a voluntary belief system, not a genetic code.

Stewy

Leave the US style think tanks out! We dont need a PNAC style think tank thinking up ways of turning our country into a police state thank you very much!

Gavin

hmm - seems to be some censorship going on here! Wher is my comment, submitted this morning? - do only those blogs supportive of Mel's ravings get posted? Bit sad, eh?

London Calling

The Northern Rock fiasco reminded me of that game Kur-Plunk, whereby you make the mistake of pulling out the wrong stick and all the balls fall, and as in this case it was the British people who's marbles fell into place and rolled in a queue all the way down the high street, having lost faith in what they were being told about their cash and how safe it was in a rock that had obviously cracked wide open.

The positive from all of this is it opened Britain’s Pandora’s Box of which Melanie highlights in her post, from grass roots level to the top, in that we have so woefully got it wrong and this has resulted in crushing common sense, trust and sound Judgment in all affairs which affect’s us all..

Britain has so many talented people, who have been shunned and demoralised by bureaucracy and power driven maniacs, I think, therefore I am, certain that a Think Tank would be a positive step forward and that we will all be richly rewarded as a nation for it.

Ann

"A country where real intellectual debate took place would have no place for anyone as crude and ignorant as Richard DAwkins" -

ROFL. You should be so 'ignorant'. Dawkins has great knowledge, and expresses his incisive ideas in clear language. He doesn't pussyfoot around the nonsense of 'creationism', and doesn't allow theists to use dishonest weasel-arguments (e.g. use 'scientific' arguments when their whole agenda is to overthrow scientific methods). I call this honesty and clear thinking, not 'ignorance'.