The universities' witch-hunt against the Jews

Terry

Shameful. The Nazis are winning a posthumous victory via the leftofascist movement. That's why we need Israel. A place to which Jews can ultimately go to seek refuge from this racist pseudo-academic scum.

Water

"If the Motion is passed it would expose Jewish members of the Union to indirect discrimination... Additionally, the Union faces potential liability for acts of harassment on grounds of race or nationality" that's terrible and out right injustice. All the Jewish scholars I've come across have been incredibly amiable. This is just despicable, ghastly, and truly wrong.

Water

"If the Motion is passed it would expose Jewish members of the Union to indirect discrimination... Additionally, the Union faces potential liability for acts of harassment on grounds of race or nationality" that's terrible and out right injustice. All the Jewish scholars I've come across have been incredibly amiable. This is just despicable, ghastly, and truly wrong.

"A Time To Speak"

Let them boycott -- if the clique can get it passed. And if the still-sane British academics go along with it.

It is Israel today that is on the cutting edge of research and advancement of knowledge, and creativity in the sciences.

A boycott would be a loss for Britain, not for Israel.

N. Simon

It looks like it won't be too long before the UCU force Jews to wear yellow stars stitched to their clothing...

Shy Guy

"And I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse..."
- Genesis 12:3

Nuf said.

Water

Shy Guy sounds like a Karma in a manner of speaking.

Dr. Irene Lancaster FRSA

This is indeed a very dangerous move. The next stage will be that academics from British universities whose subject matter deals in any way with Judaism, Israel, or have colleagues in Israel, will also have to pass the UCU test.

No wonder that standards at many British universities are now deplorable. Academia has become a joke.

The sooner that academia begins to invest time and money in teaching and research - the better. Otherwise, the best British students will opt to study elsewhere and British academics will find themselves out of a job.

Ron

This latest attempt is just another reminder of the sad state of the British Academia and to some extent the society as a whole.
Israeli academics are attracted to the UK for many reasons, a major one is familiarity with the language but they should ask themselves whether that’s enough.
Do they really want to spend there time in such a morally decaying institution that is going against its own principals and those of the academic world. It is rather the Israeli academics who should do all to avoid this ‘sick man’ of the European Academia.

Shy Guy

Water
May 28th, 2008 12:28pm

Shy Guy sounds like a Karma in a manner of speaking.

Yeh. Me and Sharon Stone.

john

Boycotts peacefully indicate disapproval. We can recall successful boycotts of South Africa. Is the difference here quite as enormous as the supporters of Melanie Phillips' position seem to maintain? The left is generally identified with the pro-Palestinian cause in a way that the right tends not to be. Does this make them monsters? I would think that the assumption of UCU that left-leaning causes belong to them to promote by right was just as significant a complaint.

Nick

Just wondering: would all those university teachers (and this country badly needs more social scientists) like to press for a boycott of British universities because of Iraq? After all that would give them (even) more time on their hands to mount more boycotts. And i doubt anyone would notice if the country's sociology departments stopped working

Adam B.

When I was growing up, we learned at school how Nazism grew in Germany, how an entire country became psychotic, a mass madness. It seemed distant, as if such a phenomenon was consigned to history. Now, with this disgusting and almost unbelievable step by UCU, I see how these things can develop, in small stages at first, until the madness becomes mainstream, and voices of reason and moderation are sidelined,into the wilderness. The Green Party incidentally has also made boycotting the Jewish state official policy. That's ONLY Israel, no cause for concern in Burma, China, Zimbabwe, Iran etc. It truly is a mass psychosis.

Ravi

Boycotts peacefully indicate disapproval. We can recall successful boycotts of South Africa. Is the difference here quite as enormous as the supporters of Melanie Phillips' position seem to maintain? The left is generally identified with the pro-Palestinian cause in a way that the right tends not to be. Does this make them monsters? I would think that the assumption of UCU that left-leaning causes belong to them to promote by right was just as significant a complaint. You just don't get it do you? The process of the boycott in interrogating members of the UCU as to their beliefs over the rights of Israel and subjecting ONLY Israel professors and students to the point "Either you support a boycott or we don't deal with you" or "If you support the State of Israel then we won't deal with you" is RACIALLY BASED intimidation. This breaches common law and the UCU's own charter. Hence, it is illegal. It is NOT illegal to Boycott Israel or Israeli goods. Go ahead, except it is impossible. I urge everyone to read the legal opinion. It is a master-class in outing Antisemitism and directly linking criticism of Israel to Antisemitism.

Dee Ranged

UCU SHAME, SHAME AND MORE SHAME!

Kim Hartveld

Why not simply reintroduce the Nuremberg Laws and get it over with?

FinanceDoc

john

Just wondering: did you even read the legal opinion linked by Melanie? The issue here is not a "peaceful" boycott as you suggest -- in itself wrong-headed and discriminatory as it fails to deal even-handedly with Arab rejectionism of a sovereign state and relentless acts of terrorism directed at Israeli civilians.

The issue is that with this proposal, the UCU is openly advocating discrimination and harassment against anyone who does not toe the line of the UCU governing board -- including and particularly Jews who can be expected to be sympathetic to the Israeli view.

That's what makes this motion particularly odious and frankly, Nazi-esque.

Brian

Melanie, thank you for publicising this unbelievably shameful day in academia.
Will this hideous Motion also be applied to the Jewish doctors, dentists and research staff who teach at the medical and dental schools within British universities?

It can't be that many years now, before we watch on the evening TV news, gleeful mobs burning books outside British academic and other libraries....

During Mao's 'Great Cultural Revolution' which gripped China forty years ago like a collective dementia, one of the most demented of its images was film of an emminent and frail Chinese professor being paraded through the streets in a rubbish cart wearing a dunce's hat and a placard which apparently proclaimed he had 'erred' in some academic opinion. Young storm-troopers in olive uniforms, brandishing Mao's 'Little Red Book' rained scorn and abuse on him.

Perhaps, if it happens here one day, we will (if we are still around) remember this day when every Jewish academic in Britain - and by extension every Jew - was made the less secure, the less free, the less equal.

Nice Jewish Girl

Melanie, why are you so surprised? The anti-Israel, anti-Jewish liberal left runs the british educational establishment at all levels. Just take a look at some of the Opinion threads on tes.co.uk if you really need evidence of anti-semitism in the education system.

Robert (Kettering)

Interesting that these same Universities and Colleges are receiving money from Saudis without question?!

Maybe the "Union" would like to ask the Saudis and their Islamonazi supporters about their views on women's rights or perhaps Gays?

Quite a worrying development.

N. Simon

In Moscow in 1954 Zionism was a crime. It was outlawed, illegal. Jews could not openly show their support for Israel.

Today leftists in the UK and elsewhere, Stalin's heirs, who include Jews and Israelis, want to outlaw Zionism in Britain and to criminalize its supporters.

We just can't allow this to happen again, here in Britain, today.

N. Simon

In Moscow in 1954 Zionism was a crime. It was outlawed, illegal. Jews could not openly show their support for Israel.

Today leftists in the UK and elsewhere, Stalin's heirs, who include Jews and Israelis, want to outlaw Zionism in Britain and to criminalize its supporters.

We just can't allow this to happen again, here in Britain, today.

Robert Forde

I want to suppress my sense of horror for the moment to ask how the UCU can discuss measures that contravene British and European laws.

Can anybody enlighten me?

Richard Lilley

Is deeply shocking and shaming, a disgrace. My sons an academic I've just rung him up and shouted at him. I honestly used to think Melanie Philips had gone a bit right wing and bonkers when she left The Guardian but I now realise she is a voice of sanity and reason in the increasing Lingua Tertii Imperii of the terrible new order emmerging in the world. The compliment and comparison with one of the greatest voices (German, Nationalist and Jewish) of the terrible 20th century is by way of an apology.

Thinkster

They wonder why Israel exists! Idiots!

phil

hitler rides again it seems -I never thought I would live to see a day that will live in infamy as this day does here .how many millions died to save the world from atrocities like this .what sort of people could dream up such an idea ?I HOPE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE WILL BE MADE TO PAY FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE AND I MEAN THROUGH HEAVY FINES IN THE COURTS WITH THEIR PERSONAL ASSETS .I have no doubt their morals will not support a loss like that. I have not been one to use the word anti-semitic ,particularly just because someone does not agree with us but this has gone too far and something must be done -Some Jews are of course Zionists and support Israel.but there also are those who do not -only Nuremberg laws would attempt to lump them all together -I am virtually speechless.

Chris

"The Universities' Witch-Hunt Against the Jews" is a somewhat inaccurate title. The post is about the UCU, of which I believe in any case that well under 50% of academics are members. Of these, many have only joined for the legal insurance the union offers.

The national UCU activists are far from representative of their own union, never mind UK academia as a whole! It's a fact of life however that those of us who wish the Union would stick to representing our interests, and avoid political campaigning of any kind, tend to prefer to spend our time doing our actual jobs instead of getting involved in the union...

Brad Brzezinski

john: We can recall successful boycotts of South Africa.

Ravi and Finance Doc gave you good answers and I'll just add that causing South Africa to be handed over to the communist trained ANC is really not working out so well. It's not only racist but is well on the road to being unable to provide basics (electricity, food, water) for its people and the lack of disincentives to violence are finally making the news now that refugees are being burned alive.

To whom will Israel be handed when your boycotts finally succeed?

Water

"Yeh. Me and Sharon Stone." haha

Tina

With all due respect, Chris, it is an umbrella organisation and so claims a group mandate regardless of whether every member is signed up to this filth.

Moreover, it comes on the back of other sinister goings-on in British universities, of which the Aberystwyth post in this archive is just one example.

It's important that people are alerted to these disgusting ideas so they can do what many did to the National Union of Journalists and just resign their membership if they feel they're being roped into a cause they do not support or even vehemently oppose.

That this is going on in British universities suggests the Titanic has gone down and we are now fighting it out on top of the icebergs.

The situation is as unreal as it is repellent.

God help us all.

GaryL

This is not like the Nazis. It is like average antisemitism before the Nazis. The Holocaust, and the easing up of restrictions on Jews after the Holocaust were an aberation. We're returning to normal antisemitism after a half century break.

phil

Chris its good to hear there are decent people in the UCU too,but without wishing to sound patronising it needs the likes of you to stand up and make a noise with these people -i cant remember the full saying but it goes somethiong like this "evil prospers when good people stay silent" its always the same in these groups, the bad ones always turn up and ordinary people just want to get on with their lives ,sometimes its necessary for the good ones to say enough is enough -i hope you will .my good wishes to you

John Doe

This really makes my blood boil. I used to be a member of this union when it was NATFHE and the Socialist Workers moonbats were running the show. They're thugs and psychotics indeed...contradict or challenge their weltanschaung and they tremble and shake with hysterical rage. They suffer from a peculiar pathology ...ideology. Lethal.

Ann

"Boycotts peacefully indicate disapproval. We can recall successful boycotts of South Africa. Is the difference here quite as enormous as the supporters of Melanie Phillips' position seem to maintain?"

Maybe, maybe not. The boycott by Harvard 'academics' of individual South Africans qua South Africans was racist. So is this one.
I wonder how many people who support this latest example of the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of British academic institutions, would be OK with compulsory DNA tests on individual academics suspected of being Jewish, to determine whether or not they should be subjected to this discrimination?

Fluffy Ostrich

Melanie, you appear to have induced mass hysteria on this website itself, with the somewhat ludicrous suggestion that the entire educated class of Britain is in decline, as demonstrated by this move. Whether or not it is indicative of intrinsic anti-Semitism, as some of the more excited commentators seem to suggest, is irrelevant, surely, given that the direct racial link that Jewish [and, bizarrely and rather foolishly, Israeli] would have to have to Israeli affairs, is ipso facto unfair.

That said, the Biblical threats and tales of cataclysm and sudden pro-Nazi accusations that have been regurgitated on this post seem to me to be hopelessly over-reactionary. It is, surely, just as wrong to denounce and suppress one side's views as it is to unilaterally side with another?

Seguin

Well, if you British Jews wish to move, you are certainly free to come to the States or Australia.

I would say Canada, but from what I hear, they're heading in this direction as well.

Ann

"Some Jews are of course Zionists and support Israel"

I sincerely hope you are not saying that these people DO deserve to be discriminated against - which, as others have said, brings us right back to Germany 1933.
It also is (still) illegal. I also hope the perps get prosecuted for incitement to racist discrimination.
Oh, it's the old Natfhe, is it? All becomes clear now. It was run by certifiable lunatics when I was a member 30 years ago.

nadeem afzal

I think this step by UCU is a disgrace, Israeli universities are world class and at the cutting edge of research and I hope that UCU will reconsider this very very bad own goal which serves no one and does not help anyone.

nadeem afzal

Israel
Robert Aumann, Germany, Economics, 2005
Aaron Ciechanover, Chemistry, 2004
Avram Hershko, Hungary, Chemistry, 2004
Daniel Kahneman, Economics, 2002
Yitzhak Rabin, Peace, 1994
Shimon Peres, Poland, Peace, 1994
Menachem Begin, Poland, now Belarus, Peace, 1978
Shmuel Yosef Agnon, Austria, Literature, 1966

list of winners from israel with regards to the Nobel prize...

how many from the rest of the Middle East???

Anat

Although a London University alumna and for most of my life an anglophile, I have not set foot in Britain for about a decade now and I don't intend to. Not that anybody will notice, but it allows me to be at peace with myself. Brits visiting Israel are, of course, an entirely different matter, and always welcome.

Ann

"Whether or not it is indicative of intrinsic anti-Semitism, as some of the more excited commentators seem to suggest"

I suppose you regard it as an enlightened, humanistic move indicative of the true spirit of even-handed academic enquiry, right?

For the record, a couple of years ago an academic at Worcester College, Oxford (if memory serves) tried to prevent an Israeli postgrad from cmoing there to do his doctorate purely on the basis of being an Israeli. Perhaps you regard that as non-racist also.
The college and uni authorities, to their credit, disagree with you and discplined this academic for his racist behaviour.

Manuel

When will the odious UCU organise its own Jewish book-burning, followed by its very own kristalnacht?
We are still awaiting the left, the marxists, their islamofacist allies and sundry assortment of pathalogical Jewish haters to organise boycotts of China, Zimbabwe, of all the islamic state sponsors of terror organisations such as Hezbollah/Hamas/Al Queda etc - these are cold blooded killers not freedom fighters, Sudanese muslim mass killers in Darfur, muslim killers in Nigeria? Need we go on?
Anti-Semitism is the new old game,the UCU is a 'worthy' heir of the nazis.

Barry

British anti- semitism has been underrated for a longtime. The UK tennis champion Angela Buxton of the 50's is still not allowed to join the All England club at Wimbledon.No reason is given. Of course she is Jewish.
The coverage of Middle East conflict is hysterical and irrational.Yes anti Zionism and anti-semitism.

Ahad Ha'amoratzim

Phil, I think you have in mind the quotation attributed to Edmund Burke, usually rendered as ""All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." I have never seen the original in context, or I would offer more information.

YA

"how many from the rest of the Middle East???"

A lot: Sadat and Arafat.

It doesn't matter what these stinkers think, or thinkers stink.

The world becomes segregated, anyway. What awaits us, is all- out cantonization. Communal tax, communal education and communal police/defence force.

Let they teach their children Protocols, Islamic law, global worming, multiculturalism, and history of hip-hop music, in their mickey mouse universities.
Run their mediocre economies and enjoy their garbage art.

People with intelligence, decency and humanity will find ways to cooperate, defend themselves, and prosper.
See above, Israel.

And, oh yes, - concrete fences and machine guns in between. If needed.

Brian O'Connor

GaryL wrote: "This is not like the Nazis. It is like average antisemitism before the Nazis. The Holocaust, and the easing up of restrictions on Jews after the Holocaust were an aberation. We're returning to normal antisemitism after a half century break

This is exactly right, and I don't think it can be stressed strongly enough.

What we're seeing is merely a return to European "business as usual." But unfortunately, "business as usual" is not a static state, but a progressive movement.

How chilling is that?

Reid of America

"No British royal has ever paid a state visit to Israel, although Prince Philip, husband of Queen Elizabeth II, visited the Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial in Jerusalem in 1994.

He attended a ceremony honoring his mother, Princess Alice of Greece, for saving Greek Jews during World War II."

I believe the royal family also has a problem with Israel. Are they setting the tone for British society or is it just a coincidence.

I believe Britain and Europe have culturally inbred anti-semitism. It is like the herpes virus. It can be under control but when you least expect it you get a virulent outbreak.

Jeffrey Levine

If this measure doesn't directly link the ideologies of the Brtish, Msulims, and the Jewish left to the actions of the Nazis, I don't know what will. It's time to start pointing the finger at the true neo-Nazis of today. Why not start building the gas chambers again? I've heard the smell isn't that bad.

Fuzzy

The title of the article should be "Universties' Which Hunt Against Zionists".

Zionist oppression and their brand of aparthied should be condemned by every good Jew.

Shalom/Salaam.

Shayla

WHAT??? Are you people insane? I'm an American, but even so, when I see this kind of bigoted stupidity, I get angry.

Did these people learn NOTHING from WWII? Or did they learn something? Only it wasn't good.

Man. If I were in Britain, I'd be taking to the streets.

And I'm not even Jewish!

Thinkster

@Fluffy Ostrich: You are wrong - and I can prove it, sort of. Melanie is spot on, again. a) Until moving to London in 2000 (now Oxford, even worse), I had never in my life even been conscious of being Jewish. (I'm your typical middle class guy who has had an agnostic upbringing, bacon for breakfast, shop in Waitrose etc, but I 'feel' Jewish - and have no chip on my shoulder at all.) Anyway, the moment someone in my social circle publicly outed me (he guessed I was Jewish!), I was treated differently from that moment on. And it made me feel 'different' although I behave just like the rest of the 'lads' (get drunk, fart etc). b) The anti-Israel and anti-American feelings in London and Oxford are everywhere - and I mean everywhere. And this is not due to the specific actions of any (citizen) Jews in the US or UK, but the fantastic propaganda machinery of Israel's enemies in the Middle East. Their ability to brainwash journalists, create typographically excellent protest placards and very professionally designed web sites reminds me of another 20th century entity with first rate PR skills! (Perhaps Mr. H taught the Grand Mufti a thing or two about the value of PR?) Anyway, this business with the UCU is very worrying - and for the first time in my life, I am actually starting to be concerned for my future - and I think when you worry as an individual about your personal security and sense of place in your country of birth (England), the situation is very very serious indeed. So Fluffy Ostrich, unless you are also of our creed, it is best to show a little empathy. (If you are indeed an Israelite, then pardon the comment, but you are doing that thing that Ostriches sometimes do with their heads! Please extract from ground now and look around you - carefully! Thank you.) :-)

Joe Strummer

I'm not Jewish but of Ulster Protestant descent,not that it matters, and I am appalled that sinister and really disgusting proposals like this could even be mooted in the 21st Century against any religious group, race or creed.

Make no mistake, the Jewish community have every right to be concerned as to the vicious and quite evil campaign that is now being waged against them by obviously highly organised and motivated anti-Semites.

This is sheer mindless bigotry at its most naked and nasty and should be opposed at every turn by genuine "liberals" and all other free thinking peoples of the world.

phil

Ahad Ha'amoratzim thank you i couldnt remember it as I was too angry at the time -but the quote is so true

phil

ann if your outburst referred to what I wrote please be good enough to read carefully what people write before you insult them -I have to assume you can understand the written word so please read again and then say sorry phil I misunderstood or if you prefer ask for an explanation .

phil

Fluffy Ostrich ,no doubt you mean no harm but sadly this is the type of thought that allowed the nazis to insidiously gain power whilst the ordinary decent people said "oh they will not really do that "- well they did and then it was too late "in the end not only 6 million Jews died but so did 40 million others besides .if you really care please wake up before this thing gathers too much steam and cannot be stopped -you may not be safe either .

Michael Halbert

And people are willing to pay for the right to be educated by these crypto-nazis?

Positively disgusting - and unfortunately, just one of many signs that the world has gone mad with liberalism.

Brian Gould

Even McCarthy in the fifties didn't single out Jews, or any other racial, ethnic or religious group, in the "UnAmerican activies" witch hunt. So what we're seeing now in Britain is, in a way, worse than McCarthy, because it's McCarthyism plus racism.

George Steiner

I notice much eloquent indignation. But in practical terms it is as useless as a tit on a bull.

As long as antisemitism is cost free it will flurish. Think about it British Jews.

GV

This is neo-antiSemitism. Ignore the great human-rights abusers -- the Iranians, Arabs, Chinese, Russians, etc. -- and pick on the Jews. Well, they may be small in in number but in academia they're huge. We'll see how the British universities fare when Jewish Nobel-Prize winners boycott them.

Lawrence

To those who wonder why Israel is "singled out" for criticism, it's quite simple. Israel is viewed in the Muslim world as an extension of Western colonialism. As such, Israel's bad acts increase Muslim resentment toward the West. Therefore, it's perfectly reasonable for Westerners to be more concerned about Israel's human rights violations than those of, say, China.

Regarding Melanie Phillips's Israel obsession, here's an idea: Just move there already.

Laura

Isn't it about time that Jewish and even non-Jewish supporters of Israel turn the tables on these nazis and boycott British academics?

Ravi

The title of the article should be "Universties' Which Hunt Against Zionists".

Zionist oppression and their brand of aparthied should be condemned by every good Jew.

Shalom/Salaam. I guess the Salaam gives it away. Since there is no Apartheid in Israel then there is nothing for any Jew or non-Jews to condemn. You really need to get someone to explain what Melanie has written about. The legal opinion states that the process of their discussion to vote on a boycott, as well as their intention to target Israelis, is Antisemitic. Hence it targets Jews. The process itself is against the UCU's own charter and they would lose any legal challenge should they be so foolish as to proceed. (Please, let them go ahead with the process because I'd love to see them in court!)

LS

"Just because your are paranoid, doesn't mean that everyone isn't after you."

Sarah

I'm reposting this as it didn't seem to get through before and I've added an extract from the UCU website which seems to conflict with the way events were reported by Melanie Phillips.

@chris - you're quite right I think. I'm a member of UCU and (like most academics) don't find union politics very interesting! The only issue which has inspired me to vote has been this one - I've used my vote to try to get anti boycott officials elected. I've never met a single person who says they support this ridiculous and (perhaps unintentionally) demonising move – though I don’t think it’s quite so sinister as some of the posters here do! My university – a new one, and thus perceived to be more left wing perhaps – has major ties with Israel and I’ve never heard anyone object to these. Please don’t assume the people who support the boycott are representative.

A series of motions called for greater links and solidarity with trade unionists from Darfur, Zimbabwe, Palestine and Burma. Delegates debated a Palestinian motion at length and passed one which supported solidarity with Palestinian academics and did not call for a boycott of Israeli academic institutions.
'Because of the constant misreporting of the motions considered by UCU's Congress, I feel I have to state that we have passed a motion to provide solidarity with the Palestinians, not to boycott Israel or any other country's academic institutions. I made clear to delegates that the union will defend their right to debate this and other issues. Implementation of the motion within the law will now fall to the national executive committee (NEC).'

Nick Kaplan

Fluffy Ostrich: you say “It is, surely, just as wrong to denounce and suppress one side's views as it is to unilaterally side with another?” But this fails to make a distinction between denouncing and suppressing, two fundamentally different activities. As a libertarian I believe it is wrong to ‘suppress’anti-Israel views or even antisemitic views (unless they are incitement to violence). I would also say a right to express such views is also possessed by the BNP. However, this in no way implies it is wrong to denounce these views as the ludicrous, racist or ignorant bile that they happen to be, whether expressed by members of the BNP or by ‘academics’.

Fluffy Ostrich

Thinkster,

Thanks for the views. To suggest that, if I am not of "[y]our creed" and "indeed an Israelite" so as to be able to air my views in a way satisfactory to yourself on the matter, smacks and indeed reeks of a vile combination of cronyism, nepotism and in fact, the very outward discrimination that the offending views are being accused of. In any case, empathy is to be earned, not demanded of another. There are many of us, including myself, who understand the raison d'etre of the Jewish homeland. But, like many other created states, it lacks internal cohesion (behold its politics) altogether, and I disagree with some of its policies. Without wanting to justify myself, as I am not on trial, I have several Jewish friends, who share my views. Lastly, ostriches never do, as a matter of fact, bury our heads. It is a fallacy par excellence.

Nick Kaplan,
I agree with your views.

Hereford

An interesting sidebar to this is the protests outside Nottingham University screaming for academic freedom. The freedom they want is for young men to be free to access jihadi websites which have instructions for the manufacture of bombs. The bias of the academic sector is appauling, clear and obvious. Academe is a cancer on the body of the nation. BTW, before any academics scream that I am a know-nothing outsider, I work in the sector.

Roy

If there is one point in a democratic country a subversive will look to imprint a tender young impressionable and supposedly intelligent brain box; it is the universities. In the days of communistic high fever this was the area the carrier of the time paid particular attention. Strangely it is the leaders and lecturers of these institutions that propagate, fertilise, and cultivate the growth of these implantation's. One would think if any one thing was worth putting about by the intelligentsia it would be for the betterment of the country and not idle discrimination and a miasma of foreign ideology. Can anything of use ever arise from these springboards of thought? Or are they forever to stay springboards of whatever is the subversives flavour of the day?

N. Simon

Fluffy Ostrich,
"But, like many other created states, it lacks internal cohesion (behold its politics) altogether, and I disagree with some of its policies.

Of course people disagree with some policies of nearly every state, including the UK, but do we boycott every country in the world?

As for newly created states, there are so many. If we take the newly created states (less than 100 years) in the middle east, such as Jordan, Lebanon, etc., no-one will totally agree with all their policies either, BUT are they subject to boycotts?

IF people really wanted to boycott Israel, they should throw away their diabetes, heart medications, etc., refuse up to date scanning technology, throw away their mobile phones with voicemail technology, throw away their computers with intel chips, windows oeprating systems, etc., and turn down the latest cancer treatments.

It would be a highly effective boycott, even if hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people would die in the process, but what sort of a boycott would it be, if people weren't prepared to die for their cause?

After all, when women wanted the vote, they were prepared to die in their protests.

No doubt, you won't be posting any more because of your computer having Israeli developed technology.

Goodbye.

Cybertiger

It is difficult to respect a country that ‘defends’ itself by shooting Palestinian children with chilling discrimination … and resists an international ban on the use of cluster bombs. Israel has become the land of bitter lemons … and it’s time those scholarly lemons were squeezed … until the pips doth squeak.

Ann

"Zionist oppression and their brand of aparthied"

You've been listening to the senile Carter, then?

Ann

Phil, I think am entitled to ask a civil question about a section of your post that struck me as objectionable (and still does) and expect a civil answer, but clearly you disagree and think that the appropriate response is to hurl mindless insults. So be it.

Ann

"It is difficult to respect a country that ‘defends’ itself by shooting Palestinian children with chilling discrimination"

Another one of those antisemitic blood libels that should not be allowed to see the light of day on this blog, methinks.
Moderator?

Ann

"like many other created states, it lacks internal cohesion (behold its politics) altogether"

I take it you have never been to Israel, then, since clearly you know nought about it. Not that this stopped you from posting this ignorant nonsense.
Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people, which has shown amazing cohesion for thousands of years and still does, as the sense of togetherness in modern Israel proves to anyone who's been there.
Created state, eh? Israel was a state 3000 years ago.
Jordan was invented in 1922, Saudi Arabia and Iraq and Syria and Lebanon around that time, too.

Miranda Rose Smith

My reaction, on reading this, was the same as my reaction to a similar proposal over a year ago. Israel should cut off all contact with Britain, including the sale of medical technology, the medical technology used to treat Parkinson's disease and multiple sclerosis. Then I decided "No. Its wrong to punish sick people, and anyone who would have anything to do with boycotting Israel is so hateful, heartless, and stupid that he wouldn't notice or care if his parents were dying of Parkinson's disease and his children were dying of multiple sclerosis."

Ben-Tsiyon (ha rishon)

"In other words, two fingers to the Jews." Well, here's a Jew's two fingers to them!
My late father, 'though not well-educated, was a very wise man in many ways. He warned me many years ago to remember, after he was gone, to watch out for "the signs" and not leave it too late to get away. Looks like the time has come.

Stanislav Koblinski

Recently it's become fashionable for anti-Zionists ("Jew haters" to you and me) to complain that any criticism of them and their antisemitic opinions is "the new Macarthyism".

So what do they call a committee that questions Israeli and Jewish academics in order to judge their politics before allowing them into the university?

Ted Tedford

Cybertiger: It's tedious to spell it out again, but I will, because I'm bored at work, and comments like yours are a pleasure to refute, particularly when expressed in such odious language.

War is a human activity: non-combatants get killed. But this is more likely to happen in conflicts where one side uses non-combatants as human shields while deliberately attempting to kill as many adversary non-combatants as possible, and the other side takes scrupulous care to avoid as far as is reasonable such deaths. Israel holds its armed forces to a far higher standard of accountability than any other in the Middle East, and more so than most in the world. Palestinian and Iranian terror groups *know* Israel has more regard for life than they do - or they would not site weapons systems in school-yards or next to hospitals.

When non-combatants *are* killed, there is an inquiry; and the Israeli government is quick - often too quick - to admit responsibility. Often, as we know, thanks to the efforts of people like Ms Phillips, the supposed deaths of children and massacres of civilians are pure fabrication and distortion: yet there is little or no acknowledgement of this in the world media.

Several countries want to resist the ban on cluster munitions, for sound reasons, both practical and moral. The ban makes no acknowledgement of the possibility of achieving responsible use of these munitions, nor procedural drills that can massively reduce the impact of non-combatant deaths. It seeks to lump professional armed forces, like those of the UK, the US and Israel, in with the far less accountable militaries. In doing so, it further constrains the freedom of action of responsible military powers, while doing absolutely nothing to impair the actions of the irresponsible.

Your post, in singling Israel out for 'punishment', for consequences that are not unique to Israeli policies, is itself evidence of the loss of moral clarity in the west.

Fluffy Ostrich

"senile Carter..."

Not my views, but screamingly indicative of the spirit "Woe betide he that disagree with the Zionist cause".

Ivan

For goodness sake, there is a difference between objecting to the behaviour of Israel the state and the global population of Jews.

The fact that the other side in the middle east troubles are just as bad should not exuse the frankly vile behviour of the State of Israel.

And criticing those who object to such behaviour on the basis of anti-semitism just blur (intentionally?) the logical divide that should exist between Jewish-ness and Israeli-ness.

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Cybertiger: Israel doesn't defend itself by shooting "Palestinian" children; it shoots terrorists who fire rockets from populated areas and use their own children as human shields. And if the Arabs can ignore an international ban on suicide bombings and Kassams (assuming there is one), I see
no reason why Jews can't ignore an international ban on cluster bobms (assuming there is one.)

N. Simon

Cybertiger

The IDF DO NOT target civilians, nor children, but aim for the perpetrators of terror attacks... but when terrorists use school playgrounds to fire their rockets, the inevitable result is that when Israel does retaliate, some innocents are inadvertently killed. AND there are times when the Palestinians have "work accidents" and kill their own innocents, whom they dub as "martyrs" for the cause, as we've seen happen so many times before.

On the other hand, the Palestinians DELIBERATELY TARGET Israeli civilians, especially children, and thousands of Israeli civilian deaths are due to Palestinian terrorists.

phil

Ann you have a way of turning reasonable remarks into hatemail ,nevertheless for the sake of others if not you my comment was that UCU are treating all Jews in the same way no matter whether they were pro Israel or not or even whether they wished to be seen as Jews or not ,that is what the nazi,s did ,and in any case you are well aware of where I stand on all these issues so please use some common sense before you attack not only me but so many others too -needlessly

S Brown

Lawrence: "Regarding Melanie Phillips's Israel obsession, here's an idea: Just move there already."

Do you also tell black Britons to go back to Africa?

London Calling

Which Jews are they?

Those Jews who support occupation of Palestinian Land, of which Arial University was built ?

Or Those Jews who speak out against it?

http://www.yg.co.il/Ariel-College050504/index.htm

Here we have a classic fragment of view, although intertwined with fragments of truth and untruth.

There are many angles to this augment, and I am disappointed that we have only been presented with a small section of it here in which to form a conclusion and I am surprised that although we pride ourselves on Freedom and Democracy, I have yet to date witnessed a balanced view of both sides of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

If it is Freedom of speech that openly allows us to criticise Britain and those within that are not just or truthful and threaten the fabric of our society, then it is wrong in my view to enjoy such freedoms and at the same time remain silent when it suites our own interests or we are in denial of the bigger picture.

With Regards to Arial University
and those who run it and how this has caused concern here in Britain, boils down to one word:

Occupation

And whilst this augment may be iced over with anti Jewish slogans, we need to grasp the thread of injustice that is felt
by the Palestinian people themselves.

“Israeli universities are very important to the fabric of Israeli society and to the occupation.
“Carefully researched material reveals the links of Israeli universities to the army. They house strategic research institutes which do a lot of the type of thinking behind military initiatives. Many high-profile Israeli academics are closely identified with the planning and execution of the occupation strategy,”

http://www.pacbi.org/boycott_news_more.php?id=742_0_1_0_C

About 320 of the 7,000 students at the Ariel college are Arabs, but the local Palestinian population can hardly be said to benefit. The neighbouring village of Salfit lost large tracts of land to make way for the settlement, and soon its residents are to be penned behind the West Bank barrier which will reinforce Israel's grip on the settlement.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/may/26/highereducation.internationaleducationnews

I conclude that the ‘universities' witch-hunt against the Jews’ is an attempt to create an apartheid against Israeli policies in conjunction with Ariel college, who stand accused of being heavily influenced with military initiatives in Israel, and this is the route cause of the Universities and Colleges Union’s argument for a boycott, although I disagree with this stance and whilst it may be at the discussion stage, I am strongly against it.
What is required is an open discussion regarding the influence biased points of view are having on Academia here and in Israel, and the acceptance that there are two points of views and our University’s need to accept both without being partial or aggressive towards innocent Scholars attending regardless of their views, providing they do not impart and force them on others. The University’s have a responsibility to remain un political in all situations and this should also be represented in Lectures also.

earle rosenberg

Hitler lost World War II because he exiled many Jewish scientists and future Nobel Prize winners.
England's future may well suffer the same fate.

phil

Fluffy Ostrich I see you took offense to what "thinkster" wrote and I think you were wrong as there seemed nothing nasty in what he said ,but I will tell you that apart from a few of our own nutters most Jewish people who write here would defend your right to have a different opinion to us provided it is not out and out anti Jewish propaganda ,which yours is patently not -read him again he is one who writes a lot of sense here and many times we get a better understanding of one another by expressing our thoughts freely ,so I hope you will continue .

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Ivan: Give me one example of "frankly vile behavior of the State of Israel."

Miranda Rose Smith

Note on my previous posting: "Cluster bobms" should be "cluster bombs."

Stanislav Koblinski

Are Chinese students and academics cross-examined on their views of the Chinese occupation of Tibet before being allowed into British universities?

phil

ivan please read what I wrote to fluffy ostrich but also answer miranda -tolerence is a two way street

phil

Cybertiger if you actually had any pips many here would ensure they were squeezed,but you are a brave man and would not dare to say such things face to face .so we will remain amused by your nonsense

Ivan

Phil, an answer to Miranda will come as soon as it gets through moderation, although I suspect her position is rather entrenched. Once you believe in deities allocating real estate then such problems are inevitable, I'm afraid.

But irrespective of position I find it deeply concerning how many posters supporting the Israeli position appear assume congruency between Israel and Jews. For sure this position is possible to understand but it seems to be a rather nasty trick, becuase once you close that boundary it then becomes very difficult to criticise Israel without coming over as anti-semitic. This exacerbates tensions in what is already a very sensitive and complex area and I wish people would stop doing it.

GNO

Jews in this country are being stimatised like no other group. Soon it will be socially unacceptable to openly be friends with Jewish people.

The Fascist Left are winning. Dark days indeed.

Ahad Ha'amoratzim

I agree that this is nothing new. Anti-semitism in Europe (including the UK ) is the norm; the temporary suspension of overt anti-semitism in polite circles after WWII was the exception, not the rule.

See what Orwell had to say in april, 1945, when the true horror of the Nazi genocide was finally made public. Antisemitism in Britain. An excerpt:

** Here are some samples of antisemitic remarks that have been made to me during the past year or two:

Middle-aged office employee: “I generally come to work by bus. It takes longer, but I don't care about using the Underground from Golders Green nowadays. There's too many of the Chosen Race travelling on that line.”

Tobacconist (woman): “No, I've got no matches for you. I should try the lady down the street. She's always got matches. One of the Chosen Race, you see.”

Young intellectual, Communist or near-Communist: “No, I do not like Jews. I've never made any secret of that. I can't stick them. Mind you, I'm not antisemitic, of course.”

Middle-class woman: “Well, no one could call me antisemitic, but I do think the way these Jews behave is too absolutely stinking. The way they push their way to the head of queues, and so on. They're so abominably selfish. I think they're responsible for a lot of what happens to them.”

Milk roundsman: “A Jew don't do no work, not the same as what an Englishman does. ’E's too clever. We work with this 'ere” (flexes his biceps). “They work with that there” (taps his forehead).

Chartered accountant, intelligent, left-wing in an undirected way: “These bloody Yids are all pro-German. They'd change sides tomorrow if the Nazis got here. I see a lot of them in my business. They admire Hitler at the bottom of their hearts. They'll always suck up to anyone who kicks them.”

Intelligent woman, on being offered a book dealing with antisemitism and German atrocities: “Don't show it me, please don't show it to me. It'll only make me hate the Jews more than ever.”

I could fill pages with similar remarks, but these will do to go on with. Two facts emerge from them. One — which is very important and which I must return to in a moment — is that above a certain intellectual level people are ashamed of being antisemitic and are careful to draw a distinction between “antisemitism” and “disliking Jews”. The other is that antisemitism is an irrational thing. The Jews are accused of specific offences (for instance, bad behaviour in food queues) which the person speaking feels strongly about, but it is obvious that these accusations merely rationalise some deep-rooted prejudice. To attempt to counter them with facts and statistics is useless, and may sometimes be worse than useless. As the last of the above-quoted remarks shows, people can remain antisemitic, or at least anti-Jewish, while being fully aware that their outlook is indefensible. If you dislike somebody, you dislike him and there is an end of it: your feelings are not made any better by a recital of his virtues. ** [Sorry, don't know how to block quote on this blog]

Read the whole essay at http://orwell.ru/library/articles/antisemitism/english/e_antib

phil

Ivan the problem is people post here with items they have read from propaganda sites deeply offensive to both Jews AND Israel without ever checking the authenticity of those pieces-I refer to both Jenin and Lebanon for example -accusations are routinely made ,found to be untrue and never given the same publicity as the original -this as you can imagine is very provoking as we wish for high standings both for ourselves and from Israel -that was its ambition and what we all strive for -personally I wish the other side had such ambitions and peace would be a realisable objective ,sadly that does not seem to be the case -some here respond with real anger as you will have seen but most try to debate in a reasonable way -you will have found out who to ignore so exercise your privilage

James McClellan

I'm an Academic at a British University and at most 1-2 of my Departmental colleagues belong to the ridiculous rabble that masquerades as the UCU. Motions such as the one discussed by Melanie Phillips largely explain why.

Lawrence

S. Brown wrote:

"Lawrence: "Regarding Melanie Phillips's Israel obsession, here's an idea: Just move there already."

Do you also tell black Britons to go back to Africa?"

My answer: To the extent that any such people put the interests of their "homeland" over those of Britain, yes.

As I stated rather clearly, Israel's bad acts create problems for the West. Those in the West who interfere with the West's efforts to rein in those bad acts are, like Ms. Philllips, putting Israel's interests over those of the West.

Ben-Tsiyon (ha rishon)

Of course, the people that Papertiger and his ilk respect are those who fabricate atrocity stories (with the help of the gutter media), brainwash their children with hatred and incite them to commit murder, among other things. As for the clusterbombs, he/she should take a long hard look at his own country's record on this, and at its general record over the last two or three centuries.

Ann

"senile Carter..."

"Not my views, but screamingly indicative of the spirit "Woe betide he that disagree with the Zionist cause"."

Utter tosh. Carter IS senile, or at least, I regard that as the kindest interpretation for his ignorant antisemitic rants. He screeches about Israeli 'crimes against humanity', but cares nothing about real crimes against humanity in China, Sudan, Iran etc etc.
His idiotic claim about '150 Israeli nuclear bombs' is another example. What, he went and counted them? All the way from Gaza? This prat has not been in office for what, 25 years; he knows nothing.

He was a useless man in office, the worst president in 50 years. He certainly has not become any more intelligent with age.

Steve

Well, I’ve always felt that inside every non-judgemental multi-cultural liberal there is a raving Nazi trying to get out.

Ann

Nonsense, Phil. The hate mail is all coming from you. I asked a civil debating question. You seem unable to take even the mildest possible criticism of a single sentence maturely, flying instead into a hissy fit.

Ann

"The fact that the other side in the middle east troubles are just as bad should not exuse the frankly vile behviour of the State of Israel"

And you have first-hand knowledge of its behaviour? How, pray? Have you ever been there? Or do you believe the non-stop stream of hate, distortions and lies emanating from Al Beeb?

"And criticing those who object to such behaviour on the basis of anti-semitism just blur (intentionally?) the logical divide that should exist between Jewish-ness and Israeli-ness"

This divide is constantly being ignored by the Jew-haters, who simply use anti-Israel hate-speech as an alibi for what they are really saying, which is directed against Jews, and then whine when this weasely tactic is exposed.

Ann

I can't decide if Lawrence is taking the mick or is being serious. Israel's 'bad acts' consist in defending itself against genocidal savages. I am sorry that Lawrence finds this so inconvenient, but I suspect Israel is going to continue defending itself all the same.

Israel is one of only a handful of civilised countries that actually does something to defecd western values against a new Dark Ages.

Ann

I can't decide if Lawrence is taking the mick or is being serious. Israel's 'bad acts' consist in defending itself against genocidal savages. I am sorry that Lawrence finds this so inconvenient, but I suspect Israel is going to continue defending itself all the same.

Israel is one of only a handful of civilised countries that actually does something to defend western values against a new Dark Ages.

Ben-Tsiyon (ha rishon)

So, Lawrence would dare to tell those UK-born Islamofacists who have blatantly run down this country , have burnt the national flag in the streets, have incited their fellows to hostile action against the state, have openly declared their intention to replace British law with Sharia, etc. etc. to "go back where (they) came from" or accuse them of "dual loyalty" (an oft repeated slur against Ms Phillips)! I don't think so! Those declarations are strictly reserved for use against Jews who have the temerity to speak up for themselves and for their brothers and sisters in the land of Israel.

Fluffy Ostrich

Many thanks, phil, for your last comment at 1.34. I was not in fact offended by thankster, despite the mood of my responding message. I shall make sure I eat before posting the next time, as food appears to alter my outlook for the better! [smile]

I do find this comment objectionable and shall desist from comment:

"...is one of only a handful of civilised countries that actually does something to defend western values against a new Dark Ages."

Ravi

It is difficult to respect a country that ‘defends’ itself by shooting Palestinian children with chilling discrimination … and resists an international ban on the use of cluster bombs. Israel has become the land of bitter lemons … and it’s time those scholarly lemons were squeezed … until the pips doth squeak Are you on the same medication as Dhimmi Carter? What you are really saying is "Israelis deliberately target Palestinian Children" (ie being discriminate). Antisemitic Blood Libel again.

Stanislav Koblinski

Ivan says:

"But irrespective of position I find it deeply concerning how many posters supporting the Israeli position appear assume congruency between Israel and Jews."

Perhaps because many of those who criticise Israel are only doing so because they really want to criticise Jews and the excuse that they're only anti-Zionists, not antisemites is used for protection.

The one thing that antisemites hate more than hating Jews (or Israel) is being called an antisemite.

Remember:

You can take the Jew out of Israel, but you can't take Israel out of the Jew.

Ravi

As I stated rather clearly, Israel's bad acts create problems for the West. Those in the West who interfere with the West's efforts to rein in those bad acts are, like Ms. Philllips, putting Israel's interests over those of the West. So Gordon Brown should move to Israel because he's the Honorary President of the JNF. Various ministers who object to the boycott too should have to resign then? Any Jewish member of Parliament should be forced to resign if they don't denounce Israel. Perhaps the many Jewish Entrepeneurs should sell up and take their business with them. Have you got your black shirt and swastika yet? Which high street is in for a bit of window smashing tonight eh? You imply that any Jew who has an affinity with the only place they won't meet Antisemitism in the street and workplace ought to go there - which is an Antisemitic concept itself. At this point I have to pay homage to Britain's 300,000 Jews who are able to run British opinion so well and control the other 60m. Daft isn't it?

atheling

Why don't they just ask Jews to wear a yellow Star of David, and "relocate" them to "camps" in order to indoctrinate them to the "correct" view?

After all, it's not like they have to reinvent the wheel... there ARE precedentes. /sarc.

Ivan

Ann "And you have first-hand knowledge of its behaviour? How, pray? Have you ever been there? Or do you believe the non-stop stream of hate, distortions and lies emanating from Al Beeb?"

As it happens, I have very high level primary sources particularly with respect to the 40s and 50s, and a _considerably_ closer insight than most into current international Jewish politics. So no, this isn't necessarily from the BBC or any other mainstream source.

All this puts me in a position to see the sheer claptrap that has been spouted (on both sides) in this thread.

But my main concern in this matter is the number of people on the Israeli side who simply fail to see how anyone could object to the country and the way she behaves.

I was particularly amused by tho