Hague’s EU policy would be suicidal for Britain

AH

Well thanks for that pathetic justification of your position. to put it another way, if we don't join in then everyone else will get upset. I have never heard such a weak defense of the wholly unjust action that was to deny the British people a say in the matter. I am ashamed that you represent this country, when then reality is you either don;t understand the issues, or you are just serving yourself. It's time for you all to go.

listen2thiseddie

Enjoy the job while it lasts, Bananaboy. The electoral clock is ticking...

The first act of the incoming Conservative government should be a simple bill explicitly asserting the primacy of Westminster legislation over that from Brussels. Only then should we look at which areas of our relationship with Brussels are actually beneficial to us.

David Cameron, please note.....

David,

You "bottled" a leadership election despite promoting one.

You knowingly lied about the Lisbon Treaty and conspired to deny the referendum that was promised.

Both acts of cowardice give a far greater insight into the type of man you are than this feeble, scaremongering article you have constructed.

The article, like its author, is weak and deceitful..........

David Cameron, if you read this, you have got to do better than Miliband. A referendum, post ratification, will strenghten your electoral voting base, which despite the poll lead is not a deep base just a wide one.

Chris

Hague is an utter liability and he's had a humiliating election defeat to prove it. The tory party needs to get rid of all the bnp/ukip fellow travelers if it's to be taken at all seriously.

Ray

This sounds like the same sort of pathetic "we must be in 'Europe' to influence 'Europe'" guff that British politicians have been feeding us for the last forty years or more.

Indeed, the only reason Margaret Thatcher was 'derailed' by the European issue is because she has so far been the only British prime ministers whose eyes have not only been opened to what the 'European project' is really all about, but also the only one who had the guts to break the conspiracy of silence and dare to challenge it.

It's time to end all this obsequiousness to the whims of our European 'partners'. The greatest achievements of British foreign policy have been when it has been firmly rooted in our national self-interest. And constantly having to bargain away our national independence just so we can achieve 'temporary derogations' over the manufacturing tolerances of some widget or other, is both demeaning and ultimately futile. The European superstate will roll on regardless.

I was once as enthusiastic a Europhile as you are, David. However, the more I observe how the EU works and what its true long term objectives are the more I have come to the conclusion that the only proper course for my country is to leave it and to leave it tomorrow.

Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure

Milibanana has obviously learned nothing from the Iraq debacle, which proved beyond all doubt that obediently kowtowing to what the US administration wants is absolutely no guarantee that Britain will have any greater influence in this so-called 'special relationship'.

Alan Clark was right when he once observed that, when push comes to shove, Britain will prove no more indispensable to the Americans than Taiwan.

The only guarantor of our national survival is to deal with the United States on the basis of cultural and historical ties reinforced by a resolute appreciation of our own national interest. After all, it's exactly how the Americans (and indeed, our European neighbours) deal with us.

Dextershut

Typicalmain stream political arrogance.
There is no mandate from electorate in this country to cede much of our Foreign Policy to an unelected official in Brussels.We have a seat on the UN Security Council to help influence world events, but now this is very often taken over by the EU "Foreign Minister".
Lisbon was a stitch up by Labour with weasly words more in line with a dodgy double glazing salesman. Even the promised Westminster scrutiny was a complete sham with Defence and Foreign Policy not even getting a look in. This level of deceit will not be forgotten by many voters both at the coming EP elections nor next general election.The whole drift towards a Federal Europe is done by stealth and deceit,so it's no suprise at all that the BNP are increasing their support.I'm off to the bookies to put £25 on there being at least three BNP European MP's after next month vote.
The only solution for the UK to effectively be able to work as part of the EU is with a clear mandate from us. Us? oh the electorate, dam forgot about them is clearly the view from Westminster.
I am not declaring as either pro or anti EU membership I just the reasonable democratic right to choose in a referendum.

Fritz

Miliband obviously doesn't read history. British involvement in 'Europe' didn't somehow magically begin in 1973: we have been playing an active part in European affairs for the last five hundred years.

The only difference is that until 1973 our involvement was predicated very firmly upon the basis of intergovernmental co-operation to achieve common objectives. Since then we have frittered away the very national sovereignty our forefathers fought so hard to defend in order to be handed down a semblance of 'influence' upon the remorseless march of an all-meddling federal superstate for which the very concept of free sovereign nations respectfully dealing with each other as equals is anathema.

Jez

"I can draw no other conclusion from my work with the US administration"

Egotism as well as being completely out touch. Great.

Seriously, what planet are you orbiting right now?

Major Plonquer

For all you crossword enthusiasts out there please make a note that 'David Miliband' is an anagram of 'A bad livid mind' in case it comes up in the Times crossword.

Major Plonquer

Sorry. I think my last post was in poor taste. Must take thsi more seriously when David Miliband is involved.

So if you crossword enthusiasts see a clue 3 Across: 'David Miliband mixed up like his predecessor', you'll know that the answer is 'I am blind David'.

And for future crossword solutions, please note that 'Ed Miliband' is an anagram of 'I am blinded'.

You couldn't make it up.

Andrew Cadman

For people like Miliband, life is all about the establishment and institutions. Reading the article its obvious that is his only frame of reference. After all, this man has known no other life.

After all the fog of talk of influence or economic benefit or whatever, the case for withdrawing from Europe can be distilled very simply: no organisation that is so clearly contemptuous of the democratic wishes of the people is one that a democracy should be a member of.

Scot Richards

Frankly, I never thought I'd see the day when I was presented with actual evidence of a British politician trying to destroy the United Kingdom for their own personal enrichment.

What a load of bollox, if I can be so impolite.

To start with, the EU is not the 'largest single market in the world'. Market for what? Bullsh*t, yes. Corruption? Yes.

Biggest market for cars? No. China buys more and tiny little Japan makes more. Commodities? No China buys more and even Australia sells more.

The truth is that the only thing the EU produces is red tape. They truly excel at that.

We the British people have NEVER been given a vote about whether we want to stay in the EU or not. Mr Miliband's last manifesto PROMISED us a vote. He lied then. Why should we believe a word he says now?

Barry Davies

Milliband is a liar and an idiot, the peoples of 27 previously free nations don't want the creation of the eu empire which the not the constitution will impose on us. The unelected much to powerful sleazeball barrosso will be handed even more power, and our elected representatives will become no more use than a school debating society. Britain never has, and never will have any influence on the fascist corruption ridden democratically deficient eu, and only idiots like milliband can't see that.

seb

European nations have foreign policies. The EU has a foreign policy. Shouldn't Birmingham and the Orkney Islands also have a foreign policy? If they did, we've already found a moron who could write in a newspaper that they are a 'reality' and that we needn't be afraid of them. What, in modern English, is this supposed to mean by way of political argument?

EyeSee

It is remarkable that a New Labour politician, of whom you would do well to expect nothing, actually turns in a below NL average performance. And just because he has to talk about Europe without mentiong Europe. I wonder if wavering Dave could sort out the little muddle he gets himself into. Is the EU subject to UK Foreign Policy decisions? Why is that? Does not the EU parliament hold sway over Britain, making the much-greater part of our laws? If it is a foreign state and you permit it to run British affairs, that would make you a traitor Mr Milliband; I suggest you hand yourself in to the authorities right away! What's that? The EU doesn't write our laws, we verify them in our parliament after two MP's with tea and biccies have nodded them through a 'committee', without reading them. Very, what was the word we used to use so commonly, democratic. The EU is a political project, full stop. For the maintenace of a nation and the good of a society, it has no role. No country needs to be in the EU, as Norway shows very well thank you very much. Little England (which has had to sort out European squabbles on several occasions) could not exist beside a powerful European superstate, so we need to be a part of it. Much like Canada has struggled, with the world superpower of America next door. The problem is for any politician is that there is nothing that can be said in support of the EU. Examine the history of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which is what the EU seeks to emulate and see if you think it is a good idea. Bloody hell Milliband you will be telling us next that, dueo to the inherent importance of Man on the Earth, we are causing world temperatures to rise!! You were an imp before you wrote this dross, Davey M and you have shrunk further. Aren't you on Jacqui Smith's list?

Derek Sibthorpe

The arrogance of Mr. Milliband is breathtaking. Mr. milliband and his cohorts are all Marxists in their hearts and it seems to me that they see the aims of the old Commintern as being achieved through corporations. This utopia has a bedfellow; Fascism. Unfortunately propaganda has melded fascism with the death camps of Nazi Germany, but, of course, fascism is Mussolini's child (no death camps in Italy between 1940 - 1945). The one theme that runs through Fascism, National Socialism and the E.U. is authoritarian tyranny gained through chicanery in democracies. Will we end up calling Mr. Borroso 'Il Duce!

Paul Widdowson

I do not know how old you were Mr.Miliband when good old Maggie resigned.Quite juvenile I would guess.It was nothing to do with Europe.She had a cabinet of spineless individuals
who had not got the guts to support her.
Now I would rather die than vote Labour but is the current situation with Gordon something of deja vue?

David Watkins

I have always despised the EU, but for those who like it, I have some disintersted advice - vote Tory! It was a Tory government that first proposed taking Britain into "Europe", another which succeeded in doing so, a third which forced the Single European Act through Parliament, a fourth which signed the Maastricht treaty. Labour OTOH, under Gaitskell, was firmly anti-"Europe" and under Foot fought the 1983 election promising to withdraw from "Europe". So Britain in "Europe" is and always has been a Tory project - even after the Lisbon Treaty Labour will still not have done a tenth as much for the cause. And we can be certain that whatever Europhobe noises Cameron finds it expedient to make now, in office he will be as reliably Europhile as MacMillan, Heath, Major and, yes, even Thatcher (at the crucial time) were. And Hague will either accept this or have to say goodbye to all political ambitions.

Bill Vincent

Utter, utter, utter crap, written by a random cliche generator programmed by an idiot.

There is no insult sufficient for the author of this garbage, except perhaps "Labour Cabinet Minister".

Rob Reynolds

If you want the treaty, give us the referendum that you promised us. Why should we ever believe you or your party again?

robert

Is this the same repulsive little hypocrite who had the nerve to lecture adult politicians in India and Sri Lanka about how to deal with homegrown terrorists? After he had voted in favour of UK intervention in Iraq?
If so, how he has the sheer nerve to lecture to us on this subject beggars belief.

seb

I watched UKIP's party political broadcast this evening. EyeSee's comment here sums up its key message: there is frankly nothing a politician can say in favour of the EU. One hundred billion quid pissed up a tree every year.

Roger Mortimer-Smith

How typical of the double-standards of Europhiles. They think nothing of the enormous costs of setting up the euro, but cite cost as an argument against any country leaving the euro and taking back its economic independence. Likewise Miliband was more than happy for the EU to spend the last five years trying to get the European Constitution, whoops I mean "Lisbon Treaty", past a European public that doesn't want it, but apparently to try and reverse the process even a little would "mire Europe in institutional wrangles when it should be focussing on more important things."

So to sum up, spending huge amounts of money and time is acceptable when the outcome is more power concentrated in the hands of unelected fonctionnaires in Brussels, but wasteful when the outcome would be power returned to nation states. Or as Orwell put it, the pendulum was to swing one more time and then stop.

Could the man be any more hypocritical?

euSSR GO HOME

HOME RULE FOR BRITAIN.
NOW.

Alan

"Leave to one side that our parliament has actually passed the Lisbon Treaty." As opposed to not being passed by the will of the British people in a promised referendum? Small wonder Millband and his corrupt government are held in such contempt by the British people they have betrayed!

William Humbold Jr

You can already vote online about the EU Constitution at www.FreeEurope.info (of course not sponsored by the EU)

John Haynes

Post rationalisation, self justification and total nonsense, did the Labour Party ever seriously consider this man could be its Leader ?

If so they are doomed, come to think of it, they are doomed anyway as a certain charming Avenger seems to prove on a daily basis. They are all in Office but not it appears In Power - time for a Dissolution methinks !

donald fraser

An EU Constitution is worthless without the dual provision of clauses to distinguish between the different democratic traditions of monarchies and republics.

The UK should establish a working party to collate in electronic format a comprehensive index of all published information on “electronic democracy” and other keywords of similar meaning. That appropriate weight is given under this index classification to observe Europe’s inheritance of democratic traditions to function BOTH AS MONARCHIES and REPUBLICS. To recognise within this appraisal process that Europe’s future path towards a more inclusive electronic democracy process cannot be safely done without proper consideration of how such traditions afford nations political safeguards. To apply the indexing and updating process so it identifies and highlights areas where protection of democratic freedoms will require the dual provision of statutory clauses in any proposed future European constitution.

DGS

You've convinced me Milliband.

I'm voting UKIP on June 4th.

Ed Bell

I can't speak for those with their nose in the trough but I'd rather be on the bones of my backside and secure in the knowledge that the UK has real sovereignty than well-off and part of some EU muppetocracy.

paul gilboy

we have already had an economic and political relationship with pakistan, we ruled them for a hundred and fifty years.
We left them law, constitutional government and one of the best infrastructures in south east asia. its a basket case that should be left to the indians and chinese to engage with.
I'll not bother reading the comments that will be left when you mention the E.U. As I dislike foul language directed at any one.
There is only one thing to say on the subject we supposedly joined an economic arrangement how has our law and democracy been subsumed to european control.
I don't think my grandfather walked across the somme for some germans or italians to impose their interpretation of what is right or wrong regarding our laws. And if i'm not mistaken your family sought shelter under our laws, when the europeans decided arbitarily to change theirs.
Entering into any arrangements with these people concerning peoples rights is a fraught experience.

Derek Jones

Cannot this arrogant fool(Milliband) see that we, the people of this country want out of the EU?
Of course America needs Europe. Europe is a big trade area. The special relationship will not suffer. The countries of Europe don't want to be involved in world matters, as can be seen by their reluctance to provide troops where needd around the worlds trouble spots.
Our trade, which is heavily in favour of Europe will not suffer. They sell us more than we sell them.
I don't want the Tories to negotiate terms in Europe, I want a referendum to get us out.
Who is Milliband kidding, us or himself?

Gerald P. McOsker

What is this man smoking? The EU will never stand to protect British interests.

Tony Gee

You are so right the current Conservative policy would be suicidal, yours already is. Our only hope is an in/out referendum and let the people speak. We have about 500,000 members of the three political parties running this country of 40 million voters.

Mike

Am I right in thinking that a recent leader of this gentleman's party said, "We'll negotiate a withdrawal from the E.E.C. which has drained our natural resources and destroyed jobs." This government has sown the meaning of the word humbug.

Jon Livesey

The comment by "DGS" is worth noting. At the next election, if the main parties have the same policies on Europe, they will find that they are opening the door to some rather unpleasant fringe parties who take the opportunity to represent pro-British and anti-EU opinion.

And those Parties will not miss the opportunity to make the point that being anti-EU is not the same thing as being anti-Europe. If the Europeans want closer integration without fighting yet another European war, good luck to them, but remember, they will say, that they have far more in common than we do with them, and further integration of the UK into Europe will mean loss of control of the few areas of national life that we still think of as national.

Another thing to remember is that when fringe extremist parties suddenly show up in the election results, they cease to be fringe and they are no longer seen as extreme.

Milliband ought to know this. The Liberal Party looked like a permanent feature of British political life until a fringe Party called Labour pushed it aside.

What goes around, comes around. Parties that get too sure of their own entitlement to exist can get sudden awakenings.

Angry

Perhaps Miliband can answer a question that has puzzled me for years. Why when Labour was in opposition were they firm opponents of the EU, yet on entering office became ardent EU enthusiasts. I mean they knew the same when in opposition as they did when elected? With Kinnock, pure greed, so perhaps it's the same with all the rest, and it's sod the electorate as long as our nests are feathered.

And why the deceit and lies over the years if the EU is such a good, democratic entity, why the silence from politicans, of all colours, on what the real aim of the EU is, total destruction of nation states and complete control of its people.

And if anyone refers to me as a 'citizen' again I think I'll punch them on the nose. I'm an English person, NOT an EU citizen, and never will be, whatever they threaten.

The EU is an odious, malicious, elite, corrupt organisation that should never have been allowed to get so powerful, it needs to be destroyed, completely.

As for the above article, drivel, pure drivel.

Perhaps Milipede is preparing the way for a lucrative job in Brussels after his job with Labour is recycled.

JohnAnt

The EU has nothing more to do with the cultural and intellectual greatness of the European peoples. It has developed into a corrupt, bullying, anti-free trade sleaze n' preen opportunity for unelectable party hack has-beens like Kinnock and Mandelson to pretend they are still elected. You would fit into it extremely well, David.
Your attacks on Hague and the Tories are wasted, by the way. Neither Labour, nor - to a less disastrous extent - the Tories, will get much satisfaction out of the June elections.

Minnie Ovens

I read this article with complete disbelief.
Mr Milibrand is foreign secretary of Great Britain and, I am told, an intelligent fellow.
Yet the thinking in this article is vacuous, convoluted rubbish.
I do not know what else to say. I am quite shocked.

James Christie

David Miliband, you talk utter nonsense, total and utter drivel. And you get paid handsomely for doing this (MP'S salary), something I can only dream of.

william Haines

The point is to be an independent self-governing country again. Whether the Americans approve or not is neither here nor there. I have no more desire for us to be the American poodle as I have to be under the Brussels thumb. We should be charting our own course not making policy according to whether or not it pleases the Americans and maintains a special relationship with them. A relationship is only worth having if it is not fawning or subservient. Better be free and independent even if one is not in some imaginary driving seat. Anyway, why should there be a driving seat? Even if there was why should we be in it? Every country should be responsible for themselves and their own foreign policy.

Martin

I must admit I find Mr Miliband's opinions on the EC somewhat astonishing.
Mr Miliband knows only too well that the British have always been most cautious towards Europe and especially hegemonic rule which has led to abuse of power.
In, I think, 1939/40 Mr Miliband's father came out of the Warsaw Ghetto to England owing to the possibility of fortcoming opprssion.
This was an astute move.
Why, when Mr Miliband is a rare survivor of a Warsaw Ghetto family, does he ridicule those who have a deep suspicion of the EU? Why does he have such an admiration of something which has Germany as a prime force?
If Britain then had had a similar position to Mr Miliband and the present government now, his family may never have had a bolt hole to which to escape.
Mr Miliband is entitled to his personal views but I find it very insulting that he should preach, as a member of a Government which promised a referendum on the EC, against the very policies that enabled his father to find safe harbour.
A word to the wise, David. "All things change, yet all remains the same".

V-S

Ah thank God. Reading the magazine I thought the economist had been wrapped in the spectator cover. At least some people were as cross as me.
So to stop global protectionism we have to strengthen the single market. Mr. Miliband have you noticed that the single market includes only EU countries not the whole globe? And the support of Nato and the US for EU foreign policy… Might that not have something to do with the fact that more than a handful of EU troops might turn up?
Elegant attack?? (see page 15 this week)….Hmmmm

AndyLeeds

Miliband is not only abusing our money with his inflated expenses, he is now insulting our intelligence. He fought an election on a commitment to hold a referendum on the EU Constitution. The Lisbon Treaty is over 90% of the EU Constitution which was rejected by the people of Ireland and Holland. WE want OUR say too, just as he promised. It is not for him and his ilk to sigh away our rights and liberties; they are ours not his. So my message to him is simple: grow up and do what you promised to do and were elected to do. You are quick enough to fill your pockets with our gold, but not so quick to actually keep your word.

Jeff

Such arrogance as to tell us what we need - this is pure Frankfurt School teaching and Critical Theory in practice. Say it often enough publicly and it eventually becomes fact. It won't work Mr Milibrand we know 'New Labour'relies on its Demos training for every move it makes towards the Soviet Republic of Europe. So preaching repeat slogans to us makes you look incompetant as well as arrogant. All you have to do to re-establish some credibility as a party and as a collection of dicredited politicians is hold a correctly worded referendum and let the people tell you what they really need! Then we'll back whatever the decision is; thats what we call democracy.

International worker

I worked in Canada when NAFTA was negotiated. It is a trade agreement with no federal implications. That is what the EU should be and it would work just as NAFTA works, as I know it would because I have worked in France Germany Holland Belgium and Italy as well

david

Come on this BOY!! is looking for his next job. IN EUROPE!!

a. Bakker

It is rather naive to think thet the 'special relationship' means anything for the US of A. Yes as long as Britain is the lapdog of the Americans , like Blair during the GW Bush years. Other than an good place to put up the listening posts of the USA Britain does not mean much. Only the British tend to think that there is this special relationship. When you the British finely learn to walk on their own instead of needing the Big Brother over the Atlantic?

Josh

Im voting UKIP June the 4th

paulgilboy

This article is riddled with false propositions and false conclusions. For example, you state.. America shares intel and Military assets because we are in the E.U.Really! is this the same America who's previous president never took a telephone call from the French. and the same America who threatened to withold information if we did share it with the Europeans.
This is just one example and, the rest of your essay is riddled with claims that have no basis in reality.
We don't buy the spectator to read such nonsense.