The price of happiness

12 March 2005

Petronella Wyatt talks to Richard Layard, who believes that higher taxation can reduce envy and make us all happier

I reply that happiness, as defined by Aristotle — the pursuit of intellectual pleasures — is not possible if one is constantly worrying about bills. Moreover, in order to help others it is useful to have some money yourself. Layard is stubborn. ‘That is wrong. Richer people take on more financial responsibilities. This doesn’t make them happy.’

‘But how can you measure happiness?’ He allows that happiness fluctuates, but claims that people can be made happier over months and years. ‘What I am saying above all,’ he remarks, slowly, ‘is that we must have more equality.’

‘But some people are always more equal than others. The smallest differences cause just as much envy as the biggest. Are you saying people were happier in the Soviet Union?’ ‘Er, no. I’m not saying people were happier in the Soviet Union.’

We move on to one of his top indexes of unhappiness, the rise in crime — blamed again on ‘getting ahead’. I suggest that perhaps there is more crime because of population growth, the fact that there is more to steal, and a lack of discipline in schools and at home. Our education system turns out children without aspirations. If they were told by teachers that they could do well by legal means, perhaps they wouldn’t mug old ladies. Layard himself has ‘got ahead’ in the conventional sense. ‘Surely you are driven — an example of the man who pleased God in the Parable of the Talents,’ I say. ‘You contradict your own book. Unless you are unhappy.’

‘No, I’ve had a happy life. But I believe in realising talent for the benefit of others.’ I pause. ‘So you believe in selflessness. Would a selfless man have accepted a peerage?’ Layard turns peony pink and coughs so hard I wonder whether to hit him. ‘Erm, um, a, er, good question. The, er, Labour party, er, needed some more peers.’ He begins to laugh. ‘Obviously many people like to think they have something useful to say. But, yes, I do like it. I was flattered.’