I don’t miss Italy. The dolce vita is a myth

cuffleyburgers

Oh Lisa Lisa - non hai capito un cazzo.

Certainly living in Milan isn't much fun, I have friends there and have lived near there myself.

What you haven't understood is that the Italians like to do things their way. if you don't like it, tough.

I live in Lucca and the quality of life is extraordinary.

Of course you're right about the postal service - but then nowadays most people phone or email.

You mention Waitrose - if you want to buy overpriced food that tastes of cardboard you're welcome to it. Personally I prefer Esselunga.

And why should the Italians embrace curry? There's no Indians in Italy to cook it, and anyway their own food is fantastic unlike in Britain where eating curry is the only way to get a decent meal in most provincial towns. And by the way Italian food does extend a little beyond risotto. You should have tried to spend some time in Piedmonte or some genuine tuscan Fiorentino steaks or fresh grilled dorata washed down with a half litre of house white on the coast down from where I am or else down in Puglia? Altamura "where they make the best bread in Italy" puts Hovis squarely in its place.

Politics is openly corrupt. And Britain is better? Where 80% of the laws anyway come from Brussels the most corrupt government in Europe, but the govt won't admit it or allow anyone to vote on the matter, or even to protest. At least the Italians have the wit to pick and choose which laws to obey and which not.

You say you don't miss Italy. I think you're lying. But I can assure you that Italy doesn't miss you.

anon

This article should not deserve a single comment . After 3 years in Italy all that the author can come up with are exagerated stereotypes. I could have written this article myself from far far away in a country where various governmental agencies lose hundreds of thousands of sensitive private informations every month , secret service officers forget sensitive documents in a train which is delayed on average by 30 minutes if not cancelled because of bad leaves on the track ; where rubbish is picked up only once a forthnight just like in most european countries before they discovered that it was one of the most likely cause of the plague , the police is never to be seen protect the general pubblic , the national Television which would put the Pravda to shame has a budget the size of a small country and must be subsidized by a tax on private citizens on pain of prison not to mention the free press where one of the leading opinion forming newspaper, obviously left leaning , has a very lucrative and ecxlusive contract with the Government on Jobs advertisments for those crucial and well paid appointments such as outreach director or 5 a day co-ordinator . Welcome back to Britain Lisa Hilton , enjoy the weather .

Ex Milanesi

I lived in Milan for seven years and I couldn't agree more with the author.

There are really very few redeeming features about the place. Apart from a small area in the middle of town most of it is really grim modern apartments swamped in graffiti, needles and rubbish.

Italian food is definately very good but as the writer says there is virtually nothing but. Virtually everything is inefficient, corrupt and works badly. Plus it is not cheap.

On the plus side the Milanesi business community are definately hard working, creative and stylish. All in all they are extremely impressive. It is just the city itself which really is quite souless, violent, inefficient and surprisingly provincial.

The author's thesis that one will not find la dolce vita in Milan is correct. It is mostly a small slummy business city where people work hard but mostly depart from to enjoy themselves.

Robert Baty

Yes, Italy does punch below its weight. It is not surpprising that Spain has overtaken Italy in GDP per person and gets about four times the number of tourists, despite Italy having the worlds richest cultural heritage. My only experience of the two countries is as a tourist, the food shops in Italy are grim, Spain has Hypercor which surpasses Waitrose.

Really it is all down to govermint; Spain's last about 8 yrs on average, Italy's 1 yr.

James H. Bonomo

I have been to Italy many times and have found a sense of beauty and humanness found nowhere else. Certainly, not to be found among the anal retentive brits, chocking on their medieval caste system. My grandparents came to my country (America) to chase an illusory American dream. Yes, they were better off financially, but had sacrificed a great culture and warmth which English speaking countries do not offer.

Richard Bates

I think this article is substantially correct. Rather than add my own comments, I'll pass on a remark made by a young Italian woman. Her husband had applied for a job at Manchester University, and it was likely she would be emigrating. 'Oh dear,' I said. 'Manchester! I don't think you'll like that. Rains all the time...' 'I don't care,' she interrupted. 'For thirty years I've had the sun. Now, I want everything else.' Nowadays most young Italians with experience of living abroad would probably agree with Lisa Hilton.

David Alexander

cuffleyburgers

Thanks, you saved me the bother!

jon livesey

I have often been baffled by the venom and counter-venom - and in some of these comments, extremely patronising counter-venom - that passes for comment when discussing living in the UK versus anywhere in the rest of Europe.

I've lived in the UK and also in several European countries, and IMHO there is no better or worse, only different. If you want a fast go-ahead society with plenty of opportunity, try London, but don't expect a fast city to go all slow and romantic for you. Don't expect people who eat on the run to eat on the run for two hours on some cafe veranda. Don't expect someone who needs to process twenty clients a day to have two hours to chat to you.

And if you like the slow life under Mediterranean sunlight, then give it a whirl, but don't expect your mail to arrive on time, or the Police to behave like London bobbies, or racism to be hidden, or public life to be free of corruption.

These are the rational positions. The irrational one is to expect to find a place that combines the best of all societies. There is no such place.

Oh, and don't project your own preferences on other people and then sneer at them when they turn out not to share them.

David Short

Bravo, anon.

No one asked this woman to live in Milan.

The vast, vast majority of people who live or work in London don't like being there; they are forced to.

Either because they were born there, or because they cannot find well-paid or even reasonably-paid work elsewhere.

Except for a few years when you're in your early 'twenties, London is a dirty, smelly, expensive, aggressive, unlovely sxxthole, and has been for a very long time.

No wonder people yearned to cash in their over-priced property and retire to a place in the sun.

Alas, their property is now not to over-priced so the option is less easy.

And I challenge anyone to say they are as uplifted by strolling through London as they would be in Rome.

And there are no yobbo lager louts in Rome.

And who would prefer Brighton (a place I do nevertheless like) to Amalfi?

Barry

David Short - why respond to one set of prejudices with another? I'm writing this in a part of SE London which is clean, quiet, safe and well provided with open spaces.

However, I like cuffleyburgers
comment about Italians liking to do things their way. I know SE Italy very well and they don't like foreigners moving in and moving the furniture. If that's racism, it's fine with me.

Phil Stein

Lisa Hilton is wrong about the food, which is the best in the Western world. This is not obvious – its excellence is not as obvious as French cuisine, and maybe three years is not long enough to grasp and understand this. It has to be said Italians make strenuous efforts to maintain and improve the standards, defend the quality and the right to use the name of Parma Ham, Parmesan and Gorgonzola, Chianti and Barolo etc., and recover ancient products and recipes etc.. There are several TV programmes every day on cuisine, almost as many as the programmes for hypochondriacs. Indeed the two genres merge into each other as every cuisine programme has a nutritionalist or a dietologist (these are apparently different) to tell you how many calories, antioxidants or omega-3 each dish has. And if you miss the cuisine and hypochondriac programmes you can’t possibly miss the advertising, with obsessive emphasis on health and above all ‘genuinità’. One of the biggest makes of biscuits is called ‘The Old Mill’ – you get the idea.

With those reservations Lisa is wrong about the food. And she is wrong about, er, that’s it. Oh yes, she is wrong about the culture. Not wrong about its present degradation and nonexistence. Wrong to trot out the conventional gushings “invented nearly everything civilised”, “most glorious cultural heritage on the planet” etc. Naturally supposing, since everybody said so, that this was indisputable I started to visit the galleries in various cities a long time ago. (When I was lucky enough to find them open – at least that is something they have taken in hand in recent years.) Since this art is all so wunnerful I tried to see it as such, attempting to reinforce my faith by reading of the guidebook commentaries which told you so and explained how revolutionary, how mould—breaking, was the naturalism of this painter. And that one. And the other one. (In fact all these painters of what looked like waxworks in rhetoric poses, all of them were revolutionary naturalistic mould-breakers. They must all have broken the same mould - that would explain why the results all look the same to me.) It took me quite a time to admit to myself that I was never feeling at all so uplifted as I was supposed to. And yet much longer to work out why.

Which was that anyone’s enjoyment of Italian art galleries would depend on how many Descents from the Cross, how many Annunciations to the Blessed Virgin, how many Heads of John the Baptist they want to see in one day. If you are a devout Catholic you may love to immerse and lose yourself in a world of Faith and its loving celebration. You might also be interested if you are a catalogue-minded scholar dutifully tracing the evolution of style. I don’t deny its historical importance to Western culture, I’m only talking about enjoying it or not. It came to me definitively when dragging myself round the Pamphilli Gallery in Rome. There are one or two good things there actually. The famous portrait of Pope Paul V. Or is it Clement V? Somebody V anyway – you know it, the one desecrated by Francis Bacon. And two busts of the same Pope, by Cellini or Bernini or one of the usual inis. You do not need the eye of faith to appreciate those - there is a real personality and its rendering. But the rest of it is the usual Descents, Annunciations, Heads and, I remember, at least two or three Flights into Egypt. Acres of paint and a real drag. Except that just at the end I saw one little Breughel about a foot wide and suddenly it stuck me - at last, something alive! Life! You know the Italian expression for a Still Life painting is Natura Morta. Well there is more life in a Dutch Natura Morta than in all the Lives of the Saints in all the Italian Galleries.

There is appreciable Italian painting actually, essentially that of the first half of the Twentieth Century, plus some years a bit to either side. There are Futurists and Metaphysical and innumerable other schools, almost as many as political parties. Quite prolific though not as well known nor as influential as that of the time in France and Germany, in fact by no means as well known I should say as it deserves to be.

Don’t go to Italy to look for it though, the place you can best see it is a little gallery in London, the Estorick.

Arnold Attard

You call Italy a Hologram, Luigi Barzini in his portrait of Italy
'The Italians' (1964), who knows the italians being italian himself, decribes Italy as a mirror immage, where everything is an illusion.
He also dwells into the character
of not just the italians, but also the english who live in Italy. From time immemorial he considers the english who live in this amazing land as a caricature of the italians: more corrupt than the italians themselves and certainly more daft, as some of the comments below seem to testify.

David Short

Barry, they are not prejudices. They are statements of fact. I am not, I am glad to say, acquainted with SE London, apart from a couple of terms living in Camberwell Grove when Camberwell was safe(ish).

When I speak of London or Rome, I am talking of the centre, that which makes up the capital city.

And that goes for any other city. If I express an opinion on, say, Manchester, I am not referring to Fallowfield or Chorlton-cum-Hardy.

Philippa

How sad, that someone of obvious intelligence should spend three years anywhere where they felt unhappy. Having 'done' miserable time (in England, I hasten to add), I sympathise.

I rather think Jon Livesey's post on 7 Nov @ 8.07h says most of what needed to be said. In support, I'd add:

I live in France (having lived there before, years ago) after decades of London-based life interrupted only by spells in a couple of other EU countries. All interesting and, mostly, enjoyable.

I've also lived in some ravishing, peaceful locations on the Welsh Marches - and wild horses couldn't drag me back to those mean-spirited, spite-infested hellholes!

It's a matter of horses for courses, wild or broken-in, isn't it? A question of whether or not a place suits you -or even you, it?

And as for governmental corruption, I rather think that of the UK takes the biscuit. MPs' pensions/allowances/WMD/Blair's subsequent career/Mandelson et al ... the point need not be laboured.

robert

Anyone who goes to live in Italy expecting to spend their time visiting supermarkets and post offices and watching tv is... the kind of person who produced an article like this

Odile Taliani

Sir,

I would like to add a comment to Lisa Hilton´s article (I don´t miss Italy.. Spectator 8th November). Her assertions are spot on, but she limits herself to dealing with the symptoms rather than with the illness

I have to administer a key property in Rome, described at length not long ago on these pages in flattering terms by Stuart Reid . I am in constant contact with all types of Italians from all over the country : civil servants , teachers, the legal professions, builders, tradesmen, artisans , staff, you name it.

To me the tragedy of Italy is: 99.999999999999999% of the workforce and indeed of population is very remarkable: hard working and original .They are in their offices at 8am , frequently you find them there still at 8pm; they give you their private cell phone contacts; they are available whenever you need them; they are, whatever their capacity, outstandingly intelligent, reasonable, faithful and kind- ; they love their city, they know it well; they want the best for it- and they have , across the board, a good taste which is the envy of the world

But then you have the other 0.0000000000000000009%. These are the terrors. Far too often, unfortunately they hold an inordinate number of the key positions . and are thus largely responsible for the basic infrastructure -They have no sense of duty, no community spirit, they are effectively corrupt beyond anything you might find in the third world, because they are also clever, and adept at covering their tracks. They operate exclusively in their own interests. You can do next to nothing about them except attempt, mostly unsuccessfully, to by pass them and keep your blood pressure down . Think Pushkin´s Bronze Horseman

They are like tumours . A tumour occupies only a minimal part of the body, but it fatally destroys the health of the whole . As Mrs Hilton rightly notes, the general attitude to them is one of “È così” but… what do you do about tumours? Mostly they are lethal, and anyway more powerful than you are. Of course you care . But the very best you can hope for is to try and live with them; where possible ignore them ; and in the meantime appreciate what is left to you. In the case of Italy there is much: for instance the other 99.999999999999%; the beauty , the art, the climate , the gay, and the picturesque-pace Mrs Hilton- markets. Is it absolutely indispensable to retreat back into Waitrose and Starbucks ?

C Powell

What utter tosh!

The places described in Christ stopped at Eboli are a long way south of the places described in Gomorrah, as even a cursory look at a map would have showed you. Nor do you appear to have understood either book. Naples itself is a much more interesting place to live and visit than you appear to realise - and I know - because I lived there for a long while myself.

You also made the mistake of choosing Milan. Milan is where you work not where you live.

As for the nursery, Italians take their responsibilities to their children seriously. Maybe electronic thermometers are a bit OTT but better that than the criminally negligent slob parenting which pertains in too much of Britain.

But 3 years there and you appear not to have learnt "l'arte d'arrangiarsi". "When in Rome..." etc.....

skyblues

Lisa, the perfect country doesn't exist. It's sad to see that you spent 3 years looking for it and in the process missing out on what what is really a great place. I've had had the pleasure of living in Italy when I was younger and people there will be the first to tell you that for many things it's not a easy place to live and do business, but life goes on just the same...and life can be very good in Italy. I've also lived in the UK (Coventry to be precise) and there were many things I could have spent my time there complaining about. Instead, I chose to like it for what it did have to offer; great universities, an international citizenry, the NHS, a rich history in its own right, and some of the nicest people I met in my life. If I were to rate the UK on the basis of supermarkets, post offices, food quality and television (at least Italy has original programming and doesn't rebroadcast US programmes wholesale), then Britain would rank dead last. You also seem to imply that racism is not an issue in the UK as it is in Italy. Italy has only recently been a recipient of immigrants. Let's not forget Enoch Powell, the Nationalist Party and some of the racial riots of the past years. Britain had it's time to learn to deal with it, so let's accord Italy the same opportunity. One of my worst memories of Coventry is hearing a 12 year old boy telling an Asian shop keeper that he and the other "muds" should be tied up and dragged through the bushes. Even after hearing this, did I make all Brits out to be the same? no I didn't. It also rained everyday, but much like Italy, life went on. Also, Milan is not the place to raise a young child, I'm sure if you lived in the periphery your experience would have been different. As far as government goes, remember that Italians prosper despite their government, not because of it. We have proven that you are your own best resource and this is reflected in our industry, creativity and ability to overcome every imaginable obstacle that comes our way. Now do you still feel more secure with your Anglo-style of democracy that hasn't been challenged in 60 years?

Italia

Aside from the silly theme of this article, it is poorly written and lacks flow. Grade school education at best (equals UK University graduate). Probably related to Paris Hilton.

Andy

At the end of the day, one weighs up the annoyances and the joys of where one lives - and whichever comes out top makes the whole experience enjoyable or not. I believe that, for Lisa it wasn't exactly the 'free choice' of where to live but she stuck it out for three years.

I've been here, in Milan, for four. We've found, what we consider, the best Indian, Chinese and Sushi restaurants. We manage with the supermarkets (but stock up on bacon and cheddar cheese when we go back to the UK). To be honest, the only difference between, say, Waitrose and Unes is that Unes has a lot less choice (and, of course, no real bacon or cheddar cheese).

But, for these things (and the post offices and the banks, the queues, etc., etc.) I love Milan and could never imagine myself living in London. Lisa, I know, prefers London and, surely, that's OK too since we can't all live in the one city, can we?

GK

I met some of the nicest people
too, Skyblues.

Giulia

Although i would like to emphasize the fact that living in Milano, such a busy city, doesn't reflect the same life of any other italian cities... i tell you, Lisa: you're right; but you did a serious mistake: you thought " Dolce vita" existed.
As i' m sure you know, " Dolce vita " is only the titol of a film that translates the romantic conception of Italia in nice images.
I just would like to tell you, but also to other people who think the same as you, not to expect any kind of " Dolce vita " from Italia.
As you discovered, Italia is a normal Country with the same problems of other nations.
If you come to Italia you should know we "invented nearly everything" so that you can appreciate our tradition..but it is different from trying to explain the complexity of a whole people only by remarking "the unwatchable tv" or "the pompous jounalism".
The politicians corrupted or the attitude to ignore our "beauties" are social problems to whom we' re trying to find a solution since 1861 (when Italia was created), while some people seems to amuse themselves enumerating stereotyped.
So, if you want " Dolce vita ", don t come to Italia but stay on your sofa watching Fellini's film;as we, italian people, dont come to England expecting to find a beautiful dandy like Dorian Gray or to live romantinc experiences like in " Wuthering Heights".
Maybe your stay in Italy should be considered as a kind of bad vacation in a foreign place (looking for pasta, pizza and Colosseo) in order to comparing Italia to England.
I'm addressing to people who never visited Italia...Roma Firenze and Venezia are however still waiting for you, showing their wonderful monuments but i suggest you to book in a hotel only for some days. You should be disappointed from real life.
E' cosė Lisa, credimi.

Ann

I live in London and i lived in Milan, yes Milan is not a friendly city, very foggy, and very provincial, but is never been the idylliac italian city!!Luckly you can drive 30 minutes and see AMAZING places, mountains, lakes plenty culture and traditions!Regarding postal office plenty parcels are lost from Royal mail,Uk right now is more corrupeted than Italy, wich democratic country hold A PM WICH WAS NOT ELECTED?Regarding food: Milan has plenty indian resturants and japanese,and when i lived in Milan i never misses the overrated Waitroise, Italy has the best food in the world , variety and quality, someone wich miss Starbucks should be neither be allowed to talk about coffe!!Regarding health service also in Uk you have to wait for a GP, at least italian heath service is much better than in Uk , where you can get MRS just visiting an NHS . Ms Hilton: Gamorra is not Italy , and about the italian TV 100 times better than the british tv where is full of programmes about selling second hand junk, ugly women bulling how to dress other women,soap opera at prime time, silly tv show than neither any demential italian show come close,and same film repet 50 times in 6 months etc, never saw programme as Quark, Voyager or other educative stuff on brith TV seem you only watched Striscia la notizia!! BBC never created films about Da Vinci, Verdi, Marco Polo etc as Rai did in UK they don`t have neither good presenter or journalist, everything is so shallow and depressing on british TV. Regarding the "showgirl" wich you mention, at the parlament now(M.carfagna), at least she did clean up some street of Italy from foreign hookers and wrote a far more interesting book than your!!! This country is obsesses with Jordan, Katona, Spice girls , wich they also publish their books and biography wich sell in millions this tell you how in bad shape british culture is right now, and you are one of them!! This article is very shallow and superficial and neither correct!!

Giuseppe

Wow!
It's unbelievable how many peolple still have this absurde, folkloristic idea about Italy and its way of life.
Yes, Lisa is right: The Dolce Vita is only a mith... a mith about a fabled Country that doesn't exist anymore and has, probably, never been existed.
Is La Dolce Vita in Rome and Milan?
Oh yes: why don't you try to relocate in Rome?
You will understand the "fantastic" quality of life in a city where you have to pay a lot of money to live in a horrible agglomerate of commieblocks: yes, because Rome, outside its relatively small historical center, is an endless urban sprawl of commie blocks and horrible modern buildings.
Just like Athens.
Period.
Oh, and yuou should try the traffic... wow...

Giulio

Cara Lisa
Reading your article is just like reading aricles,written by Jefrey Owen who write from rome foe "The Times". You say that italian newspapers copie article from the english press,well you and Owen,wheever the write about Italy,are article writen eathe in "La Rpubblica" or "Il Corriere", very well known,left newspaper.
There are few things that I agree,too, but in the 50'I lived in England and I still come very often (my is english)and it's not like England anymore,that I used to love it.
Every days,go and it loose the best of english society.
Read what Nicholas Farrell wrote today on "Libero"

Diego F.

Hi Lisa,

you won't miss Milan?

Well, surely nobody in Milan will miss you.

Best Wishes

Ciro GIlvetti

I feel obliged to dispute Lisa Hilton's article. It seems she has not lived long enough in Italy to explore the country deeply. It is a very facile article lacking in reasoned argument. I wonder, for instance, whether she speaks enough Italian to judge Italian journalism and television. Making up a list of bad things does not give any valuable information to readers but just offends an entire country.

Heading south to Italy, temperature and mood go up. People live there with problems just as everywhere else in the world but Italians manage to maintain a natural and unique way of living. Hypochondria is an unknown disorder for most Italians as their sense of humour does not allow time for that. Italian food is still one of the most appreciated in the world, so we invite Lisa to spend more time travelling in Italy; she certainly missed a lot.

Un Napoletano living and working in London

Elena B

I read the article and all the comments, and i am now curious to see how Lisa is going to answer to the rightly-given critiques to her partial, stereotype-driven, honestly quite useless article...i am surprised that a "journalist", after 3 years in a foreign country, couldn't write anything more interesting than this- I fully agree with all those who pointed out what Lisa seemed unable to understand by herself- which is, you cannot take the actual real problems of a nation (corruption, political problems, tv controlled by the government...i won't deny it) and take out of it a simple "life sucks over there". As somebody pointed out before me, it's a country with its problems (as britain is...blair had his dark moments too, if you recall). But taking all of it to end defining italians as "slavering drones" its just childish, and it only shows that she completely wasted three years of her life. As i wrote at the begin of the article, i am curious to see her answer, if she'll have to guts to actually form one. And by the way, we do have some newspapers that translate foreign press- so that i came to know about this one article- and not only anglophone one, but we also have journalists. good journalists, who wrote their own articles. maybe you should have spent your three years reading and observing more, instead of drawning in your useless "britain is better" attitude.

Mark Davis

What a terribly sad and badly written article. Pity you didn’t step out of Milan before slagging off a whole country and its people. I’ve lived here for over 22 years – nothing come easy it’s true and yes there are times when I too miss the telly and the Royal Mail but your criticisms on the food and the people and the country's culture are frankly infantile and short-sighted.
Go back to britain with its class sytem, gun crime, and alcoohol obsessed society.

Pity that your article has been picked up by Internazionale and translated (very well) for their excellent weekly. I expect you won't mind getting paid by the Italian press in this case. They'll be hearing from em too.

Thomas Rus

What’s your problem Lisa? You don’t sound like a foreign correspondent, but more like somebody who has just been dumped by her Italian boyfriend. I am Dutch, but I have lived in Milan for nearly seven years now, and my experiences are completely different from yours. If you expect to find the ‘Dolce Vita’ in a city like Milan, you will definitely be disappointed. But if you had come here with more realistic expectations, you would probably have enjoyed it. Maybe you should have opened up your eyes and you would have found the Indian shops where I buy my garam masala, fenugreek, cardamoms, turmeric, fresh coriander and all the ingredients you need to prepare a tasty Indian dish. Maybe you should have opened an online bank account, instead of complaining that banks are closed during lunch hours. That’s what I did. Maybe you should have sent your Christmas cards by e-mail. And yes, we have problems caused by traffic pollution, but isn’t smog an English invention? I am happy that I don’t live in London, but I would have never written such a childish article about any city in the world. Perhaps it says more about you than about Milan.

Jordan

The whole point of that Alimentari/Deli under the author's apartment not having anything except a curry-ish sauce is because that same alimentari has better prosciutto, mozzarella and about 30 other products than you can find anywhere else in the world. You've gotta trade endless choice in food products for unbelievable quality in the ones that are made best here.

As for outlets and malls, name me a country that isn't touched by them. It's globalization--no matter how beautiful the country is, you're going to find them all over the place.

Didn't you read "The Dark Heart of Italy"? All this was covered there, and he still found time at the end to paint a redemptive picture of the joys an anglo-saxon can find within life in Italy, despite all its problems. Doesn't mean one shouldn't criticize the problems, but really, an example of an Italian looking forward to starbucks means what, exactly? That Italians are sick of their own coffee culture?

Nah--I know plenty of Italians who swear by their coffee but love the idea of carrying around these huge American-style coffees in dozens of elaborate chai-latte-caramel varities. It's something new, but it doesn't say much about the culture.

And besided, the prices might send them running slightly--here you can still find a cappucino on almost every corner (even in the most horribly touristed corners of Rome) for a euro. There's a reason these traditions are still going strong.

I'll just venture a guess and say that if I came and lived in London for 3 years, I hope I wouldn't bid good riddance to it with an article that makes tiny, cursory gestures towards the things that are good about Britain while overcomplaining about all the horribleness one can find there, of which I'm sure there's plenty, just as there is in Canada, or Italy, or wherever.

(like the price of a monthly tube pass in London... what is that, exactly? In Rome it's 30 euros. Does that tell me any kind of deep truths about Rome vs. London? Doubtful.)

Is it that life in London/Britain, or the character of its people (if such a thing is still definable) creates people predisposed to complain about the places they find themselves in?

Of the few British people I met in my time here in Italy, half of them spent their time repeating these same complaints as Hilton does. Several of them were great people, but is this normal Brits-in-Italy behaviour, in the same way that wearing shorts in December is normal Americans-in-Italy behaviour?

I haven't found enough Canadians here to figure out what my country's contribution to expat behavioural habits is yet, but I'll find it. If I'm not mistaken, I think our main activity is correcting people who ask us what part of the US we're from.

A nice Milanese

Dear Lisa,
you'll probably never read this comment but I feel I need to write something here.
It's curious: I found this article in my favourite Italian magazine, "Internazionale" (which it's supposed to select the best of the foreign press and translate it for the ignorant italians) and I was so disappointed that I firstly blamed the bad italian translator. So I checked the original version here, and it was even worse.

I need to say that I am probably one of the most xenophile italian, and that is not because I desire Starbucks here(I am perfectly happy with my daily cappuccino which you can only dream). I often think about leaving Italy because I am aware of all the real problems of this country, but even most because I am curious about other countries's lifestyle and culture.

You came to Italy with a stereotype in mind. What is this Dolce Vita you're all talking about? I don't know, because I was born in the 80s.
I don't see we're scared of the weather, infact I don't need to carry an umbrella with me all the time. There's more: I have the fortune to have a nice terrace in my apartment in Milan, and I eat "al fresco" (haha) from April to September (I must be lucky with the weather, but hey, seems to me we're all under the same sky here).

You tell we have a primitive culture, but then you feel the need to go back to your sweet London, where you have anonymous Starbucks every corner, and everything works. We are maybe primitive, or maybe you could have used the word traditional, but you'll never read an article like yours in the pompous italian press.

The sad thing is that I would have agreed with you for many things, but your article ends up being a list of approximations and stupid commonplaces like "pasta, pizza, mafia and mandolino".
You might read the “Adonais” (Go thou to Rome) by Percy Bysshe Shelley to start understanding something about italian “ruined” beauty.

Milan is a difficult city, but it's very small and you can't hide for too long from nice people.
Tomorrow when I'll go to work and I'll have my espresso at Cucchi (do you know it? It’s less turisty than Cova) I will be thanking you for making Milan a different place, and not just another big and perfect one.
Happy life in London, amazing city. You have a lot of things more over there, but I can't help asking myself if you'll have the eye to get all of them.

ciao Bella!

And p.s. I love Sushi, and Indian food, and all good food.

Maria Caspani

First of all, an Englishwoman criticising Italian food: not acceptable. Your food is uneatable. If you wanna eat supermarket crap or ethnic stuff go to the States. I lived in NY and you would find it spectacular.
Second of all, Milan isn't Italy's most beautiful city but offers a load of things to do, from vernissages to clubs and parties, dining out and museums. Maybe you're too busy trying to find Indian spices.
Transportation is objectable as well as the postal service, that's a point, but is not impossible for a postcard to arrive in time at its destination.
The Italian press is not stupid or corrupted, it's usually just press, like yours. Oh, and we don't put naked girls on the third page of a daily paper (Sun, Daily Mail...).
Many things just aren't the way they should be but the beauty of our country remains vivid in our minds.
Your article was rhetorical and it demonstrates you didn't understand a single thing of the people you've been living with for three years.
PS I read your piece on an Italian magazine called "Internazionale". Check it out, you may learn something.

giulia b.

I agree with Hilton, I'm an italian journalism and I have rarely read a review true like this of my poor country. I love it buy it's very hard living here...

quasi blu

corrupted by the three amici's: politics, the mafia and the vatican.

Elena Favilli

Actually, the Italian for "That's how it is" is "è cosė" and not "e cosė". You should have checked your Italian better before losing your time in spreading wrong and old fashioned stereotypes.

Fiorenza Pisani

I presume your article gets "inspiration" from John Peet's one on The Economist (2005) and from Holger Schmieding's "Farewell Dolce Vita?" on Newsweek (2007) but I would suggest you to read them again. Similarly I would strongly recommend you to read again also "Outlet Italia" by Aldo Cazzullo, because I think you are missing some bits and pieces. By the way, besides "Cristo si è fermato ad Eboli" and "Gomorra", the Italian literature offers some other books that can provide you with a better insight of Southern Italy. Perhaps, are you also part of that big family thinking that Italy is only "pizza, spaghetti and mafia"? I am sure that a foreign correspondent should have a much deeper perspective...
In any case, I am glad that you have come back to Great Britain, where there a lot of expensive supermarkets, loads of spices and stamps that you can finally buy at the post office!! And, last but not least, there isn't any racism! Besides, life isn't "rubbish" as it is in Italy, and there are a lot of "ethnic restaurants", like the Italian ones perhaps, because probably there isn’t any other choice left!
You mentioned about some banal bricks revealed under baroque stuccos, but maybe those bricks were just medieval or Romanesque "banal bricks"!
Finally, I would like to remark that unfortunately corruption in politics is spread in every nation all over the world and it is not just an Italian privilege. I am sure you are acknowledged with the Cash for Honours...
I wish you all the best and...God save your Queen!

Lorenzo from Milan

Dear Lisa,

your article is full of common places; do you think that Italy was just pizza, spaghetti and mandolino for everybody? Some critics are true (politics, postal service and racism) but I don't agree with your comments against Italian press and Italy generally speaking.
Yes now ignorance is our great problem but I think that you have never experienced life in other cities like Modena, Verona, Cuneo, Urbino, Rome or Salerno; so close to Napoli and so different: clean, calm and safe. Why you are so irate? Maybe because all your stereotypes about Italy and Italians weren't true?
Have you aver been to a droghiere or a erboristeria to find your spices? They have them, a lot!
Most of your correct critics about Italy can be found on most of the Italian newspapers, those you don't like.
The rest is just a jumble of cliches.

P.S.
Waitrose is just a POSH supermarket and I hate Starbucks

LH's fan

That's right: Dolce Vita is a myth.
Now, what the hell were you convinced it was? The daily routine? I hope not.
Fortunately, not all the Italians are associated with Camorra - and not all the UK population thinks in the same way as Lisa Hilton.

Oh, and someone ought to correct that "E cosė". It means "And so".

tommi

i reported your article on my blog (translated by "internazionale", one of the newspapers that contain only badly translated and outdated articles lifted from the Anglo press) and one reader of mine asked how ended your love-story with the bad italian guy. that's could be an explanation to your rage?

jasmine serrurier sforni

Dear Lisa
Thanks for your wonderful article - I have been living in agony in Milan for 12 years and you managed to cram all the painful points into one perfect piece! jas

Bonnie

Dear Lisa,

I couldn't help but chuckle while I read your article on the Italian myth. I've lived in Italy for a while: in Rome (12 years) Naples (10 years) Sardinia (4 years) and Florence (7 years) and the chances to curse come daily, the frivolous male-dominated culture is detrimental to any thinking female, and the temptation to pick up and go back 'home' is always lingering for die-hard expats (what a horrible label!). But as I go home every 18 months or so, I keep postponing the big come back. Now I see my home state of California as 'a nice place to retire' now that real estate is more affordable, but only if by the time I become a pensioner there is some kind of national healthcare system.

Here are some of the other truths about Italy ... and which probably brought you here in the first place :)

Italians are what they eat and they look pretty good, honestly! Though I'm not denying that obesity is starting up in Italy too, it started late because the first McDonald's opened just over 20 years ago (Rome, 1987) and most Italians I've talked to don't really like the taste of those skinny plastic hamburgers and soft bread rolls with all those sweet sauces and ... a pickle? Luckily fast food is pizza and it's comparably healthy. Take a survey on any US college study abroad campus (there are 30 in Florence, where I live now) and ask them where they go for meals, Mac's or the Pizzeria.

Wherever you stop to eat in Italy there's always some local specialty to try, and the natives are so proud of their small but rich heritage. They tell you the history, ancient anecdotes, and hint at a secret recipe you will have to come back a second time to squeeze out of them. And what's really amazing is how one simple little thing like ragu' (a tomato sauce cooked with some kind of meat) can be prepared in countless different ways as you travel down the boot. Food is the focus for all social activity, and that is a good thing.

Italians are farsighted, I wouldn't really call them hypocondriacs. The public health system precludes being too obsessed with sicknesses since it takes forever to get a doctor's appointment and all medicine isn't free anyway, nor accessible for that matter. You can only buy pharmaceuticals in a pharmacy, not at the supermarket. Home remedies are still the most popular solution and any Italian granny will tell you that a bowl of boiled rice (not coca cola) will cure diarrhea, warm milk with honey before you go to bed will cure insomnia (not a sleeping pill), and extra vitamin C in the form of fresh squeezed Sicilian blood oranges will keep colds away in winter. Oh yes, and a clean shot of espresso will get rid of your migrains. Sorry, Excedrin.

If you really want to see what's on in a country, just look at what sells on TV. I spent two weeks in Colorado last year and there were more commercials for every kind of drug, pill, diet medicine, and medical apparatus than I have ever seen in my life.

TV sales in Italy still focus on items for your dowry like kitchen robots, pot and pans, some jewelry and a little bogus fortune telling.

Just to quickly comment on a couple of other points bugging you:

Yes, mail arrives whenever it has time to but I can tell you that it took the IRS 6 years to 'find me' for some tax issues when my address (the same for the past 7 years) and that of my CPA are both listed on each of my returns. The SSA has the same problem, plus they keep getting my SSN wrong and I keep writing back to them with a copy of my original social security card issued in 1973. Could it be something about public services everywhere?

No, Italians don't really ignore what's great about their country, they're just fascinated with foreign stuff, especially American and British. Look at how English has infiltrated senselessly into the Italian language, mother of so many languages and from such lexical nobility as Latin! The French would never have it, they will kill to preserve the pure Frenchness of French no matter how long and unfriendly the translated word turns out to be.

So let me get to the real heart of the matter: we can't really point the finger at Italians any more. Just like Berlusconi said after 9/11, 'siamo tutti americani' (we're all Americans), now we are all Italians.

Gomorrah came out just in time to see Governor Blagojevich of Illinois get impeached for trying to sell a Senate seat. One of my best friend's (a staunch Republican, bless her heart) was talking about the presidential elections and concluded, 'well, we don't want one of 'them' in the white house now, do we?' And since I'm guessing you are back in 'the real world', turn on the tube and see what's on. The world of reality TV was not invented in Rome and Jerry Springer is not the Pope.
Fox news? I won't even go there.

Sometimes it just seems like the magic is gone. Maybe you just have to look for it.

maria scotto

poor old lisa.... trying to be controversial. I am wondering if she is so bitter because she was trying to fit in with the milanese high society but, since they have great taste and elegance, rebuffed her, the glorious snobs they are. I met Lisa Hilton several times and she is a terrible social climber and since she just didn't fit in, she has to thrash everything.
sorry lisa, you are such a fake.

disgusted

Dear Lisa et al, I came here to Italy ( not Milan but a small town in Umbria) almost one year ago, I am fluent in Italian and have lived all over th world. If I had read this article before living here I would have probably agreed with some of the criticisms which you have received, however, sadly not only do I agree but I could say so much more. I have never net so many poor spirited self centered unprofessional incompetent but nonetheless arrogant people, mostly in positions of power which they abuse.
Woman accept and believe the only thing they have to offer is sex especially in the work place. If you are not lucky enough to have "contacts" you accept no promotions. I am shocked on a daily basis at how down trodden the "good people " are as they repeat with a sad beaten shrug "purtroppo e cosi" Today I sat and listened to the explanation that Italy has no worries regarding the Bird flu virus because they only here do they have such great antibiotics...their ignorant statements are said with such arrogance that I couldn't even be bothered anymore disagreeing.
I am sitting in a house I cannot refurbish because of the incompetence of the architects and notaio I used who assured me in advance that what I was buying was mine, now it appears to also belong to 5 other people from some old catasta information that has turned up and they are holding me to ransom. I am too tired to explain any more of my experience here, the magnificence of the spirit which created such beauty now is gone or stifled, they can only restore what was made in the past, and even then...well its only "truccato"... just ask the families morning their dead in Abruzzo. Honestly , please anyone thinking of investing in this country... be very very careful. Come on holiday, watch your bag then go home.

Sandra Johnson

I absolutely agree with you Lisa! After 10 years of living in Italy I could not wait to escape for many of the reasons you cite as well as so many others. Nice for a holiday though. :) An aside: I left my Italian behind as well.

Mona B

I totally agree that the politics is corrupted and that the Mafia are running rampant in Italy because the goverment doesnt carSilvio Berlosce NOTHING for its people or the animals.Silvio Berlosconi and is a disgusting , greedy and selfish man. My husband is Italian and he is from the south of Italy. Do you think Milan has problems, you should see the south! The whole of Calabria is so neglected and there are NO jobs being created for the future generations.The Catholic Church is gets a percentage from all these poor italians every month. Religions are evil and they divide people and make them into monsters. Look at all the countries that have the catholic church....they are suffering. May the God save beautiful Italy.

jedley

Many of the author's criticisms are spot on, and I could add dozens more after being in Milan for 20 years now.
What's missing is all the good stuff, which turns a potentially perspicacious essay into an extended, malicious whine.
I don't know about Ms. Hilton, but I really can't complain about gorgeous seasonal asparagus at 1.50 euros a kilo, one euro for 1kg of local cherries, or fish so fresh it's often still alive when you get it home.
Nor do I have any objections to Europe's most beautiful football stadium and two of its greatest teams.
Or to bartenders who know how to pour a drink, dammit, not those stingily measured shots you get in the UK and US at 3 times the price.
Nor is it true that all you can find is Italian food (even if it were, how bad woul that be really?) - there are many dozens of ethnic markets with spices and delicacies from all over the world to accomodate the large South American, North African and South Asian populations, and many hundreds of Middle Eastern, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Mexican and American restaurants - so many that the xenophobic Lega Nord wants to outlaw them because of the 'threat' they pose to Italian cuisine.
And while surface transportation may be unreliable, Milan has one of the most efficient undergrounds I've ever used.
Sure, the 'dolce vita' is rare in an industrialized metropolis (duh!), but Lago Maggiore, Lago di Como, the Alps, the Italian Riviera are all within a 90-minute drive, and they all feature countless little villages where the dolce vita is alive and well and charming as ever.
In the end, Ms. Hilton comes across here as less a commentator and more a crank.

Tango

I'm in exile in Italy from 1994, and everything you wrote is still true! I like very much your concept "hologram" ... as for "latin lovers"... now B. is away. Hope Italy awake...

tourismruinsall

dude. you have problems. what you don't understand is that you think of italy as a tourist wonderland; with beaches and restaurants and history. well italy is not a place for tourists, they don't belong. sure, italy is full of them, but they do not understand; they think that they are great because they have read everything about the churches. well guess what i think. i think that you shouldn't be sticking your nose where you should'nt be. so just go back where you come from because you are a real testa di cazzo!

Pan Per Focaccia

Well, since Lisa Hilton was KIND enough to post her views and experiences of Italy, I thought she might be interested in my views and experiences of England. I lived in Italy half of my life and at last had to move to England because of my wife's job.

Here is a list of our situation as it had been in a small village in the NW of italy:
the food was always varied and delicious (please do notice the varied)
we had, and still do, a huge amount of close friends
the weather was wonderfull in summer and my kids were not only able to, but did this as a routine, go to the beach every single day, as the water and temperatures were marvelous
people were kind and sharing and sure there were the (quite a) few arrogant idiots in power but it did not matter as the rest of the community was model behaviour

and at last, here is our current situation in England, after 10 whole years:
the weather is as if God puked on you daily (not to mention the summer when it should be decent)
the food makes me cry to think of it - just boil and boil for hours and you have made yourselves a meal!!! my kids bring food from home
we have no friends as although we have tried, the people are apallingly anti-social

now read this through and tell me honestly where you would like to live.

Harold

I have just moved back to the UK after 4 years in Italy. Living in both Tuscany, Liguria and Sicily for work. I am also part Italian.

Reading this article it was nice to see someone with the same opinion of a once great nation. Italy for me was a paradise I longed for, the beach, the weather, the food, it had everything I could ever want, until I dared to move there.

Living there I saw racism that I had never seen or heard before in my life. Given how many immigrants Italy has given the world over the years(myself included) this awful attitude and lack of integration was quite the sight to see. Then there is the sexism, again never in my life have I ever heard the comments against women, the cat calls, in Italy women are still very far behind when it comes equality.

Then there is the ageism, ageism towards the young. Young people find it so hard to get ahead in Italy. Many graduates are faced with internship after internship(unpaid) until they finally get there co.co.pro(3 month contract) that may lead to an extension. In Italy for a graduate to find a permanent job is virtually impossible.

Salaries are laughable, colleagues of mine in Sicily were working for 600 euros a month and putting in 40 hours a week. Nepotism is rife, I had friends who would study for an exam for a position, 100 people going for it in the hope that the person who was already lined up for that job declined it.

There are books and campaigns, one in particular the 1000 euro generation speaks of how impossible it is for the young to get by on Italy's average monthly salary.

Don't get me wrong, it is a beautiful country, it has a lot to offer. Yes the economy is bad in Britain, fine it is difficult here too. But Italy's problems go far beyond the economy and corruption.

People who say the quality of life in Italy is good are people who live there with money. If you have money then Italy is a great place, it is a paradise. Outside of that, you'll find a youth who have given up and are looking to places like the UK for a new life and a new hope.

sheesh

really Harold, really?

anonymous

why can't you people just stop fighting and agree that Italy is so much Better than the UK?