Church of England Inter-Faith Relations

devorgilla

I find this utterly unconvincing. It has not answered any of the points that Ms Phillips raised about the disgraceful treatment of Dr Patrick Sookhdeo and the CRIB meeting held by Brian Knell of Global Connections last summer.

francis

another pr job done! What has the link with Al-hazar brought to the faithfuls in Egypt? has it led to the acceptance of converts to Christian faith? what of persecution of the Copts at the hands of the government following conversion to Christianity Anglicans have conspired to be silent because of the protocals they signed do not think the diocese of Egypt will be safe!
While we are talking Christian preachers are being beaten in UK by muslims who do not agree with what they say can we speak on this issues too. How about the no go zones...

Mordechai

None of the above words, of course, explain why Anglican priest Rev Stephen Sizer (who has not been challenged publicly by the Church of England on this) forwarded emails from neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers:

http://seismicshock.wordpress.com/2009/03/08/yes-stephen-sizer-didforwards-emails-written-by-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-and-holocaust-deniers/

Sonya Porter

When the Saudis allow freedom of worship and allow Christians to build their first church in that country -- then I'll believe that they don't want a world Caliphate for Islam. Not before.

hadrian

The usual liberal waffle that seeks to offend none save those Christians who actually do believe the classic tenets of their faith and appallingly avoids the accusation that it is protesting fellow christians' persecution at the hands of fanatical moslems.
Disgusting. I am so glad not to be a member of the CofE.

hadrian

I meant of course that the CofE is FAILING to protest at persecution of fellow Christians.

william

1942, 1988, 2001, 2006. Why has the Church of England been so tardy in developing its relationship with Judaism and issuing such statements?

Alan

As a member of the C of E I'd be more reassured if I saw evidence of the Church seeking to rein in Christian Aid's anti-Israel politicking. You won't find any condemnation from them of 'those who engage in the evil work of seeking to bring about [Israel's] destruction', only condemnation of Israel. It's not enough to say all the right things when you're talking to Jews, Canon Wilkinson.

BrianG

Guy, you have answered NONE of Melanie's points!

No-one can explain away what is already on the record, like this:

The podcast of the ‘Unbelievable’ radio programme from 6 December - where Sizer debates with Geoffrey Smith of Christian Friends of Israel - is here:

http://ondemand.premier.org.uk/unbelievable/AudioFeed.aspx

At 21:20 minutes into the programme, Sizer says “Zionism is a form of racism”

At 47:31 Sizer says “Israel has never declared what its borders are, so how can it be recognised?”

At 1:14:30 Sizer says “My concern is with so-called Christian Zionist organisations that … equate the Gospel with helping Jews .. without telling them about the Cross … my concern is with those so-called Christian organisations that do not engage in Evangelism, that do not share Jesus with Jewish people: that’s antisemitism”

So according to Sizer, it’s antisemitic NOT to try to convert Jews to Christianity …

How can this be tolerated in the C of E, Guy?

Chris Ames

The Charity Commission’s Guidance Note CC9 gives guidance on political campaigning. They have to tell the truth, be "factually accurate and have a legitimate evidence base.”

Christian Aid has patently NOT told the truth. It called for the suspension of EU/Israel talks and claims Israel is in breach of international law.

As Andrew Roberts wrote in The Times (26 January), on 6 March 2008, Christian Aid with other charities published a report “The Gaza Strip: A Humanitarian Implosion”. The authors did not bother to hide their political bias against Israel, repeating standard Palestinian political rhetoric and including claims that Israeli policy “constitutes a collective punishment against ordinary men, women and children” and is “illegal under international humanitarian law”. The report was wrong on many counts, including allegations over the availability of food and basic necessities, which were later contradicted by both the World Bank and World Health Organisation. The fact that Hamas chose to pursue war with Israel rather than the welfare of its people was omitted. There was no reference to the fact that any of these claims might be disputed by the other side or by genuinely neutral observers.

As was shown by the BBC and Sky’s refusal to broadcast the DEC Gaza Appeal, Christian Aid's violation of the ‘inaccuracy’ requirement of CC9 is damaging its cause.

Comments, Canon Wilkinson?

DavidB

Dialogue with El Azhar?
As others have pointed out, indigenous Christians in Egypt are second class citizens. A Christian clergyman who worked in that country until recently tells me that if someone applies to the western clergy (such as him) asking to convert to Christianity, they are told that they should leave the country. And the dear old CofE has an interfaith dialogue with those who are doing this.
There is some sort of strange gap between the moral sensitivity of many of its clergy and the outrage of normal folk at oppression and persecution by other religions.

kate b

This piece doesn't address Ms Phillips issues.

The C of E as protestants are meant to be Bible believers. The boundaries of Israel are exactly as stated in Genesis and in Joshua more precisely, and not any political view of its carving up (as prophecised in Joel) it is not negotiable.

Outreaches don't really work.

The red words of Jesus speak for themselves - for example, the sign of Jonah is 3 days and nights by which 'good friday' to 'easter (Astarte) sunday' don't work, but Wednesday to Shabbat do - the black words can and have been meddled with but Christians don't know what they dont know and do not understand having the supper on the 1st day of unleavened bread is an impossiblity and doesn't fit with the rest of the New Testament accounts, also it must fit the Leviticus 23.

The Church speaking to Muslims - their Qu'ran often talks of being 'confimration' of the Torah and gospel (sura 3:3 for e.g) how can it be? Man is made from earth not blood and/or sperm (sura 96:2, 75:37). The Cow (Sura 2) is supposed to be what Israel was commanded to offer: a bright yellow cow! No! it is a Passover lamb. In Sura 7:150,154 Aron is guilty of the making of the golden calf and Moses breaks the 1st set of tablets - it is plain wrong and not an Abrahamic faith as the very point of scripture is missed (the Messiah).

Islam's prophet doesn't fit Deuteronomy 18:18-22, in fact Mohamet fails on all accounts - they have the point of scripture, but he has a bit part and not, the main part of suffering servant nor King of Israel. The Qur'an actually states Jesus (of virgin birth) is THE Messiah who creates life and takes it, clearly deity (sura 3:45-50) and no, Jesus does not permit that which was not lawful before, Jesus certainly doesn't condone what Mohamet is allowed by his god: waging war (this was done by certain pagan popes) crucifixion and amputation of alternate hand and foot (sura 5:33) in the Qur'an, the Sharia, the Muslim holy law.

I cannot respect leaders who don't get the books out. If Jesus shows us how to do Torah, why does Mohamet do it so differently? why no compassion? why no sure salvation? why no freedom not to follow? (John 6;66)

Jesus (John 10) says he must bring IN other sheep - there should be no separate or different religion from his, except for the doctrines of men taught as precepts of the Almight.

John Thomas

But all this "building bridges" might just consist of kow-rowing. Abp Williams, and the CofE, are vaey good at endless, decisionless conversations (vide Lambeth 2008), but does any of it change the entrenched hard-line Muslim hatred of converts, their misogyny, and a host of other bad things. Not a bit! Even poor old Prince Charles tried to get Muslim leaders to reject killing of "apostates", and got nowhere. Appeasement - however much we dress it up as something nice, like "dialogue", only benefits the aggressors.

Matt

Typical CofE waffle. waffle, waffle, waffle and more waffle. The church has been instrumental in the persecution of Jews for hundreds of years. Complete an utter failure to support the Jews and the clear biblical instruction to do so.

david reilly

The usual wishy-washy fiddling from the good old CofE.
The Muslims may talk to you, but it isn't in their psyche to negotiate their position. They will take as much ground as you are willing to give up.
I understand where the church is coming from in relation to the Gospels, but it should never forget that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Lydia P Troyer

The important document "Generous Love" is irrelevant while some religious or political fundementalist is hacking your vicar to death on his altar; documents of committment are easy, just words said about deeds still to be done. When every bishop resigns and volunteers his knowledge in Darfur, Kano, Timor and wherever else Christian worshippers are persecuted and killed for their existance, I will tithe. The CofE has no need of any bishops in Britain, the govt does it all, it's the 3rd world which has need of whatever skills an episcopacy can provide. And as for vicars "forbidding" their congregants certain hymns or carols, let the vestrymen advise the bishop that his man's apostolic call has been voted out and recalled. Replace bad churchmen not the church of England. Same goes for the state religion, the BBC.