The C of E has forgotten its purpose. Why, exactly, does it exist?

Wilhelm

Rod Piddle

Do you mind if I ask you a personal question ? Do you get paid by the letter or by the word ?

David Barnett

As an Anglican myself, I am compelled to agree with every word of this article.

Mr Green

Good points well put.
Always an interesting read.

tim howard

I'm not sure what Wilhelm's point is but I think this article is pretty well spot on.
We really could do with a promotion of Christ's teachings but the people that should be doing it don't seem interested.

Nick Berry

I couldn't agree more with your complaint about the Church of England however I do think that there is a wider theological shift at work here. For many years now Western churches (including my own dissenting church) have focused on the holy spirit on earth rather than God in heaven. To take an example from the hymn book I have heard the traditional children's hymn 'There's a friend for little children' criticised because it focuses on the joys provided by God in heaven rather than those provided by him on earth. I don't criticise this doctrine per se but I think it is responsible for many churches (including the established church) equating a political stance on social issues with a religious one. For example my church has adopted the slogan 'free trade not fair trade' in many of it's services which I regard as too contentious a political discussion to be propagated by the church.

David Short

A tip that is always welcomely repeated here. When faced with a six 'page' article in the Spectator online, click on 'Print this article' then when the whole piece pops up, click 'Cancel' print, then you can read the whole piece without clicking five times to get to the next few paragraphs.

Wilhelm

Rod Piddle

It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen a anything quite like this before. Do you not know Rod that the Church of England has got nothing to do with religion, its a half hour comedy show on the BBC Sunday teatime with Dawn French or Derek Nimmo or Dick Emery ?

And we all we why it was created in the first place, dont we folks ? Fat slob Henry the 8th wanted a divorce because the wife couldnt give him a baby boy. Thomas More told him the church wasnt a Woolsworth's pick n mix, so the fat slob went off in a huff and nationalised the Church. Talk about childish.

Manfredo

This is all fine and good, but "Yes, Prime Minister" nailed the C of E on all these points 20 years ago in an episode in which the perfect C of E prelate is described as a "cross between a socialite and a socialist," the question is debated whether believing is God should disqualify a candidate for a bishopric, and a cleric is said to describe the Bible as "a sort of Christian version of the Koran".

Those observations then had the same effect on the "church" that these observations now will have--none at all.

Wilhelm

Tim Howard

Quite honestly, I wouldn't worry myself about that.

Manfredo

This is all fine and good, but "Yes, Prime Minister" nailed the C of E on all these points 20 years ago in an episode in which the perfect C of E bishop is described as a "cross between a socialite and a socialist," the question is debated whether believing is God should disqualify a candidate for a bishopric, and a cleric is said to describe the Bible as "a sort of Christian version of the Koran".

Those observations then had the same effect on the "church" that these observations now will have--none at all.

MikeF

I would have thought there was a major difference between the BBC and the Church of England. It is that while the CofE is merely passively accepting of multi-culturalism, the BBC is an active proponent constantly seeking to drive the concept on to new depths of absurdity and intolerance. You might say that while one is a disciple, the other is a prophet.

Graeme Thompson

How, well, 'divine'. Rod Liddle says nothing though of his own religious predilections. The Church of England has disestablished itself - from God. It's life could convince anyone of atheism.

glynis

i support a charity called 'open doors' that works on behalf of persecuted Christians. I receive their monthly magazine and each month feel thoroughly depressed that no-one from the church is speaking out vociferously on this matter. Due to a bizarre, seemingly complicit, disinterest by the BBC and the media as a whole not to mention the c of e most people are completely ignorant to the fact that, on a daily basis, Christians suffer untold persecution and debasement in over 51, mainly Muslim, countries.No one is ever challenged by this, muslim leaders in Britain are not questioned as to their attitudes to such oppression in their homelands yet the merest hint of islamohobia here sends out a clamour of alarm and appeasement.Large sections of their communities felt that the 7/7 bombing were justified because of perceived anti-islamism. Thank you Rod Liddle for having the courage to speak out on this matter the Church of England should hang it's head in shame for it says nothing as some of the most vulnerable people on this planet suffer in a way we cannot begin to imagine. God help us all!

A. MacAulay

The C of E has been taken over by Monarcho-Syndicalists.

teledu

As usual, an interesting read from Rod Liddle.
I've no objection to the C of E slipping into oblivion, but would be happy if all other religions did so too. The sooner people throw away the make-believe crutch of life-after-death and the fairy tales of Bible and Koran, the better for mankind. If I'd created the universe, I don't think I'd be too happy with how us humans "do" religion.

Ian mastin

Great article Rod. I'll be willing to accept that useful idiot from Oxford's argument when I hear church bells in Mecca or Riyadh calling the faithful to worship on a Sunday morning.

Cogito Ergosum

In western Europe since late Roman times we have had the tradition of dual authority. The Church may be like Aladdin's genie of the ring rather than the one of the lamp, but its very existence allows us to cock a snook at secular government.

Asking the People and the Church to take religion seriously only confuses things.

biggestaspidistra

Quite right, Mr Liddle. Lately I find myself in complete agreement with you. The muscle went to the Catholics, the CofE is political correctness in crisis mode. As is the BBC. And sadly, after listening to Matthew d'Ancona's radio4 Britishness series I think you can add the Spectator (with the exception of yourself and the other firebrand) to your list of the fantastically stupid.

Sharon Reid

Excellent article. Thank you Rod Liddle. Everything you have written is, unfortunately, very true.

Roger Carr

Depressing, Rod; but well worth reading and thinking on. Thanks.

sean

Excellent article!

Leah Owens

Christians in this country no longer have a church to speak up for them. The constant battering our nation's religion has taken, has encouraged me to wear a cross and talk up Christianity and the proud history of our country's past. I will also be celebrating St George's Day for the first time this year.

I don't see myself as a Christian but it seems we have a real battle on our hands - we either support our religion (not the Church - which is now only there to promote another alien and violent religion in our midst), or submit to Islam at some point in the not too distant future. When the Archdhimmi of Canterbury and his pathetic PC bishops start calling for Sharia law in the UK it is time to acknowledge that there is a battle to be fought. Choose your side.

NR

The Established Church in general is so full of its own self-importance that it actually believes it has a God-given right to exist. This means, like the BBC, it doesn't worry at all about the absurdities which make it so unpopular. As a Christian and a libertarian I don't respect "Establishment" in any guise, for its own sake. In church circles this irritates ordained ministers no end because they consider themselves really and truly superior to independent "lay" preachers or pastors when, in fact, there is no scriptural mandate for their Church more than anyone else's.

Cillit Brown (Bang, and the wealth has gone!)

teledu: Be careful what you wish for; nature abhors a vacuum.

malcolm Uren

First class article. I'm an Anglican priest and concerned about the liberal direction in which the Church of England appears to be heading.

Valerio

Excellent article. Spot on.

TomNightingale

I think you need to get off the fence Rod; it's all 80110ck5.

Roderick Crawford

The shortcoming of the CoE is largely its widespread failure to proclaim Jesus as Lord and to support Anglicans — and anyone else in the UK — in living a life in intimate relationship with God as Father, Lord and Companion: eternal life really does start here (and 'here' is through Jesus and no one else). The message of the church is the message of the cross and the resurrection, and it is a 'scandal' that is at odds with the modern Western world's loss of absolutes. The church should be turning the world upside down, not just Liddle's stomach.

Susan Gill

As an American, I see much the same thing happening within the Episcopal Church, that branch of Anglicanism in the USA. They are really no longer Christian nor, of course, is the C of E. In fact, many faithful Episcopalians who demand an orthodox interpretation of Christianity, have left for the oversight of the Anglican Churches in Africa who are more traditional, and Christ centered. What interests me is how many British people recognize this tragedy, but are unable to do anything about it.

Vaemar

Ron Liddle's writing gets better and better!

N

Are you surprised at this? Look at how much crap churches in the US get for opposing gay marriage. With Proposition 8 in California and the banning of gay marriage, churches have felt some serious heat. It's somewhat ironic that the same people who espouse tolerance (gays) aren't tolerant of religion. Considering that Britian is on the fast track to becoming a country ending in "stan" and Muslim, what did you expect? It's easier to sit back and be quiet then speak out and get your church and congregation bombed by a radical muslim. Speaking out implies that there is a problem, if there is no problem then everyone can go about happily in their lives. Look at the US and Saudi Arabia, the Saudis violate human rights but the US sits back and does nothing as long as they get oil.

Del

teledu: There is always a 'glib liberal' willing to impose their eutopian ideas of society without faith in any discussion of faith. It is normally accompanied by 'religion the cause of all wars. blah blah blah etc! A conveniently jaundiced view. With all due respect - grow up!
It is not difficult to argue the the current ill's that plague our society have become common place because of the collapse of a bould Christian church/voice in our country. Do you honestly believe the vacuum left by a diminished church will be liberal secularism? I think that you may be kidding yourself. Sweep the room clean of Christianity and,I believe, Islamic fundamentalism is the most likely replacment!

Phil

Absolutely superb article. The C of E has become so ridiculous and irrelevant that it is a laughing stock. Having abandoned the truth of Scripture that the reformers died for, they have no platform left to stand on. Hence they jump on every passing bandwagon. Their leaders are led. If the reformers who were burnt at the stake for refusing to return into the Roman Catholic Church were alive today, they would have walked out of the Church of England years ago on the same Biblical grounds.

Shane O'Neill

Might I suggest that the CoE's particular defects might be only a natural result of its less than savoury genesis? "He that soweth in his flesh, of the flesh also shall reap corruption".

It is now patently evident that the CoE is both impotent and unwilling to represent Christian values or to proclaim biblical truth, so what purpose does it serve? Time has come to disestablish Anglicanism and reestablish Catholicism.

Archie Wedderspoon

Given that I'm Scottish, Catholic and live in Australia, none of this should concern me very much. But I wonder, like Rod, what the point of the Cof E is. If the church doesn't represent the aspirations of the English people in general, why is it established? It can hardly be described as a reliious organisation.

Michael Dooley

Mr. Liddle: I have read your article and it is depressing. I live in the Midwest in the United States. In spite of the fact we are separated by one big ocean, change a few words and it might as well be about our own churches. I am a Lutheran. Yet, I have not heard or read any mention that our brothers and sisters in the faith, including our own fellow Lutherans, are suffering oppression, rape, theft and murder at the hands of that "peaceful religion". I know for a fact that our brothers and sisters in those killing fields are bewildered why we do not come and help them. But my church leaders seem more interested in keeping their "conspicuous liberalism" display. The day will come when we will have to answer for ignoring the calls of our suffering ones--and I am not looking forward to it.

John Emsley

Exactly!
The recent history of the C of E is one long climb down. Rowan Williams, apart from being utterly incapable of communicating at any level except to other theologians, seems qite prepared to do anything for a quiet life. How does the Queen, as his Chairman, see all this? The man has betrayed the basic values of the C of E and appears to be hell bent on continuing to do so. How does the Synod let him get away with it? They appear to be about as useful as the non-executive Directors of RBS. I won't make a direct comparison between the effect on their organisations of Williams and Fred the Shred-but by God I'm tempted.
I wonder what he thinks, by the way?

Old Man

Over the centuries all of the main Christian religions have shown themselves to be just as degenerate as any bog-standard institution or business - often more so.

But the history of the Church this last couple of hundred years has been the history of retreat. More and more, the Church has had to justify its place, is teachings and in the minds of many, its existence.

A reasonable appreciation of the Church and its place in society demonstrates an irony. It has become better, sweeter, kinder and more of a force for good as its power and influence has declined.

But now salvation.

The Muslims are coming! The Muslims are coming! Just like the 7th Cavalry charging over the hill. We’re saved! Hurrah! The Muslims are here.

At last, the degenerate leadership of the Christian Churches and especially the Anglican can see deliverance. No more of that silly need to justify what they do, to prove their worth. The Muslims will soon put a stop to that nonsense. The fact that they will blow a great big hole through everything Britain believes in and has achieved this last thousand years means nothing to the Church leaders. They think they will benefit from the chaos and are going to ride through that hole on the back of the Islamic tiger.

They just haven’t realised that getting on is easy. Getting off will prove tricky.

Inviting huge numbers of people from backward countries with fierce religious beliefs was an act of unparalled naivety; to put it at its lowest. Perhaps the first instance of a nation committing suicide.

We have to face the consequences. You cannot promote religion – any religion - without promoting Islam at the same time. That being the case, all religion is going to have to be reduced to the margins. A bit like homosexuality in the past; a private act between consenting adults and not in front of the children. If we don’t like it we shouldn’t have invited the Muslims here in the first place.

The alternative is unthinkable to reasonable men but not to our degenerate Church leadership who care only about themselves.

Wilfred

An excellent article. Too true, alas.

And, Leah Owens, I agree with you entirely and am of a similar mind.

teledu

Cliff "be careful what you wish for...." Indeed, man can't be trusted too much whether atheist or not.

Del: Oh dear. This isn't really the place to discuss if there's a god or not, but your rant rather suggests you paint all atheists with the same brush (I'm certainly no liberal), and I never mentioned religion being the cause of all wars etc,
(although...?) .
I suspect you're very sensitive about your religion and thus incapable of a measured defence to criticism (your "grow up" remark certainly gives this impression), but then intolerance and religious zeal are frequent bedfellows.

Christopher Chantrill

The whole point of the CofE since Henry VIII was to be a nice conformable Kate to the government in power.

If it wants to be anything else it's got to get free of the government.

See Michael Novak's three independent sectors of society: political, economic, and moral/cultural. The economic and moral/cultural sectors have to be free of the political sector. Otherwise you don't have a free society.

Alide

As an Anglican I have to agree with Rod in every aspect of his article. On a conference I attended the speaker referred to Christians as now being as persecuted as they were when they first came into being in the 1st Century. Sadly, few are willing to accept this fact. What is happening to the Church is not liberalism, but sheer abnegation of what Christianity is all about. We may be told to turn the other cheek, but that does not mean we should not stand steadfast for what we believe.

Wilhelm

By the way Rod

Its like a nation heaping up its own funeral pyre.

And Worzel Gummidge ( Rowan Williamson ) Has got the box of Swan Vesta matches.

Simon

As William Cobbett described the Anglican Church, and reiterated his description time and time again, in his "A history of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland" as:

a church "By LAW established" (and not by God established).

For Anglicanism to find its way again it has to accept that it is a Christian church and to stop bringing everything that is associated with Christianity in to disrepute.

Dixon

Brilliant, as usual.

David Short

Let me rephrase.

The Spectator has forgotten its purpose. Why, exactly, does it exist?

I've just seen the advert 'Dream Offer' for a 'Free headboard and the Spectator for a year' and cannot decide whether to laugh or cry.

A headboard?

Who made the Speccie so vulgar, vulgar, vulgar?

Rob Shields

'it seems to have swallowed whole every convenient shibboleth of modern liberalism'.

So the Church of England now allows atheists in its flock!!!

WoooHoooo!!!

Scott Mebeat

That was a nice, forthright article. However, it will have as much effect as shining a torch into the night sky to compete with the stars.

The Jesuits knew their stuff with the old saw about indoctrinating children before they are nine, thus making them yours for life. So do the advocates of many bonnet bees - for example:, socialism, feminism, carbon propaganda, or the debasement of history for political ends - who are targeting the schools with all sorts of politically-inspired indoctrination and propaganda to capture or warp young hearts and minds. It has been going on for so long that many people now regard it as the norm. Moreover, it has worked brilliantly well, as is evinced by, for example, the erroneous belief system that has grown up around 'man-made' carbon dioxide and global warming. (It used to be doom-mongering about an impending ice age.)

The Roman Catholics and the Muslims understand the power of capturing young minds very well, which is why political interference with the religious education of their children has received such a dusty response.

Stopping the compulsory Christian education of young children in Protestant Britain was only going to lead to one outcome in the long run, and we have more or less arrived. The disconnection of the British people from their Christian heritage is now well into the second generation, and many of today's parents don't have any empathy with Christ or the churches, and therefore don't understand what all the wittering is about. To them, religious occasions cause the free childcare to close, so they have the fag of looking after their children during the day. Good Friday introduces the inconvenience of Sunday trading hours, and that's about it.

The Church of England in Britain is largely ignored as an anachronism by the bulk of the population. Baptism, marriage, and funerals still feature through force of habit. However, I don't know if you have noticed, but people are now so divorced from the teachings of Christ that the Lord's Prayer has to be printed in orders of service, because children in many schools haven't been taught to pray it for over a generation

There is now so little demand for Christian religious education in Britain that there would be no significant parental backing for, and quite possibly a fair amount of resistance to, its re-introduction into the schools. The stable door has fallen off its rusty hinges. Yowling about it won't make any difference.

We have imported people of many other religions into Britain. The Muslims seem to be the most aggressively protective of their flock. Are they frightened that Western decadence might infect their people? Stalin was, which is why USSR soldiers 'contaminated' by contact with the west were not allowed back home after WWII. Could it be that Muslim cultural dominants don't want eventually to be relegated to the irrelevance of today's Archbishop of Canterbury? Do people get nasty when their power is threatened? Ask Galileo. Also, just how terrified are their males at the prospect of female liberation? Why have we brought this viper into our bosom?

A. MacAulay

"A people without history
Is not redeemed from time, for history is a pattern
Of timeless moments. So, while the light fails
On a winter's afternoon, in a secluded chapel
History is now and England."

T.S. Eliot's faith should be the answer to all lost Anglicans who look at their church and country and ask themselves, "Where did the mystery go?"

The Atkinson clique are convinced of their own rectitude and piety but have never intellectually gone beyond the fads of their student years, which is what makes their search for "relevance" seem so pathetically out of date, and insofar as the fads of the sixties represent a moment and not a universal truth, clothed in whatsover a tradition, they become irrelevant to that transcendant "truth" and as persons with a high responsibility become a genuine mischief.

This is the response of the church elite to, not that enlightened, humanistic secularism to which we owe so much of the advances and comforts of our civilisation, but to socialism with its crypto-fascist structure. This grovelling before Islam shows that they know nothing of either Christianity or Humanism and what they do know they are ashamed of.

The German philosophical term for persons of this type is "Arschlecker" which means exactly what it sounds like it means.

MJU

The c of e's purpose was to be independant from Rome so that the King ans his followers could have disposable 'wives' (to call them something).
To break from Rome meant to be "English": not Catholic (no need to care for non - english Christians), nor Roman, nor One... Without Rome there is not objective leadership; without being One, it is only logical that the muslims take over the c of e.
My advise to Europe:remember Lepanto and start praying!!!!
MJU

John Dean

Excellent article Mr. Liddle

Helena Mikas

Spot on and oh so true . A collection of those who missed being politicians . In a while we'll have Blair for Pope since his coversion .. Imagine him and Rown Williams .Two very ridiculous twits who are as sincere as vipers .There is zero 'Christian' about the C of E .

M.J.Anderson

Excellent article on the Cof E by Rod Liddle. Michael Nazar-Ali will be a great loss,but he clearly wants to be involved with the issues of cruelty and oppression in the wider world.It's a poor outlook for the leadership in the Anglican Church which lacks the teaching of its 'onetime' true values.

A. MacAulay

Ha ha, and a genuine Freudian slip in that I referred to an "Atkinson" clique, when I meant a Rowan Williams clique. Mistaking the A of C for a famous clown is quite apt.

A. MacAulay

P.S. the repeal of the Succession to the Crown Act 1707 which would allow Catholics to assume the throne is meant to pave the way for our first King by popular demand, Tony I.

Mark

No wonder Neville Kyrke-Smith became a 'muscular' Roman Catholic, having set up the charity Aid to the Church in Need.

There are several books by that organisation, highlighting persecution of Christians. Most of the intolerance occurs in Muslim countries, though China and Cuba also feature heavily.

It is also ironic that three of the most popular holiday destinations for this Easter are Turkey, Tunisia and Egypt, all of which persecute Christians !

Kifue

Wilhelm, calling Rod Liddle Rod Piddle is no longer amusing (if it ever was).
Could you stop it please.

Does the hairy lefty ever talk about Christian issues? Has he ever addressed a difficult topic and given us a moral kick up the arris over it? Like: adultery. Sticking in your marriage. Temptation. Being a better person. Projection onto other people. Anything about the problems that affect us mortal people in our daily struggles? Ummmmm - nope.

If I ever try and remember any utterance by RW, it is something like the NHS (default: left liberal. A given that the NHS is a Good Thing).

If I had wanted the man to be a politician along with the rest of the incompetent clowns, I would have liked the chance to NOT vote for him.

Jane Prior

I am deeply saddened and made not a little afraid by the abysmal leadership of the church today. With three noticeable exceptions the Bishops are a sorry ineffectual lot. I do hope this excellent article starts a real quest for reform. I do hope that the Bishop of Rochester will reconsider his planned move, there is more than enough scope for his campaigning in Britain, where not only Christians but British tradition and basic law is under real threat. Please let us have more journalist examination of church matters.

Philippe-Joseph Salazar

What irks me the most, barring doning a crown of thorns, is the cautious approach, to say the least, to what Easter entails for non-believers: to convert, that is to pass from false life (Jade Goody) to the true life (no example at the ready), or, to quote the Roman liturgy, to "tear the veil from your face" (loosely translated from the Latin, but what can you expect?). Of course, nowadays, to remind non-Christians who happen to believe in a God, that their heart is hard and their face veiled is not a safe thing to say. Let us see what the current sitter on the Holy See says on Sunday. Inch Allah!
Philip.

Tom Norton

Willhelm
If you are being serious in your castigating and rubbishing of the Anglican Church, why not try reading the recent articles by Bishop Nazir-Ali,and Archbishop John Sentamu on the Web. The Church of England is an extension of the English Church of the 4th Century AD. Many of the privileges you now enjoy were given to you by this Church. More importantly,
we are now entering a time when Britain is threatened by forces that could easily destroy it. Only Christianity has the power to save it. If that time comes, you will be needing its protection.

Wilhelm

Kifue squeeks ''calling Rod Liddle Rod Piddle is no longer amusing .Could you stop it please.''

Let me put it this way, Kifue, in simple terms that you can grasp.

NO.

David Gardiner

Of course the C of E is dying. Partly becuase religion itself is dying in the west, and partly because it has resembled nothing other than a branch of the liberal left consensus that governs this country. The prouncments by the present Archbishop of Canterbury have been little less than ludicrous and he has been the Church's counterpart to Tony Blair: both have done their level best to destroy tradations and Englishness in their febrile pursuit of a country which has forgotten its past and what it used to stand for.

William Pender

This is one of Rod Liddle's best articles. Penetrating, accurate, glowing with the painful irony of what modern Britain has become. More, please, Rod on this wholly unnecessary decline and the medicine to tackle it.

Adam Pole

The Church of England's days are numbered, I fear. Non-attendance and a drift into agnositcism for the liberals - and a switch to Rome for traditionalists.

Anna D

Michael Nazar-Ali's moving on to pastures new is a great loss to Anglicans in England and Wales. However, he may have grown tired of managing an organisation committed to managing its own rapid decline and the wind up of its affairs.

DHS

I am a member of my University's drama society. We were recently approached to put on a short production at a local church. We were very happy to do this, but I felt I needed to let the vicar know that all of those who would be taking part (as it turned out) are atheists. I feared our non-belief might be thought deceitful or disrespectful in some way. But, no, I needn't have worried. The vicar informed me that he himself was an atheist having lost his faith some 10 years before. It seems he's more of an actor than us!

Raymond Hardy

This is an England new to me,
The lady I left is changed;
'Though my captured heart through her, could ne'er be free;
Yet faithfully returned, 'tis now estranged.

For venturing in those unfamiliar climes,
Oft' times my heart desired them to embrace
And honour them, and cling to them as mine;
Yet could not still the haunting England face.

But I left her in a golden morn.
A smiling maid in silken dyes;
The flush of innocence her cheeks wore;
And 'twas gentleness in her sunny eyes.

I have been o'er long in my wanderings,
Forgetting that time decays;
And the pretty maid in her silken things,
Now wears the rags of more worldly ways.

Jim V

The Episcopal Church in the United Stares isn't much better. It is more interested in ripping itself apart over homosexuality, the secession of parishes and diocese from the national church, and the ensuing court cases over church property. It's "leadership" should be pastors to their congregations in this time of economic strife and uncertainty proclaiming Christ's Gospel and how we as individuals should live that Gospel. And above all look to Scripture and not the popular opinion and legal statutes for the resolution of its crisis of faith

Ms. Jeeti Johal.

The matter of self denial is one a appropriation, of understanding the underlying factors leading the will to crave and need. Sourcing any urgent need and driving force behind it enables the individual to address any such issue at source should he wish to do so, and unshackled himself of any habitual addiction frowned upon or non-conducive to his long term good health, standing or betterment.

The congregation may fear sacrificing its Sunday fruit cake and the self denial may not be entirely necessary or essential to any great cause. The issue is one of self control, self discipline and power of will. The Church of England is required to lead with logic and reason than pander and be seen to be indulgent of whimsical faddishness. It will undoubtedly be greater respected for adopting a moral authoritative stance than pandering for the purposes of solicitation for punters.

At this juncture in time the public desperately require moral strong leadership and pastoral guidance. The church thus opportune should avail itself of this arising tide of need and veritable vacancy for the salvation of the British people back into a unified congregation under a unified banner of COE.

God Bless Rod Liddle. ...

John Corfield

I hope you publish this comment you have a tendency to be like the Guardian moderators you censor seemingly innocuous comments on a secret pro PC ethnic-minority biased algorithm crafted by a policy wonk straight out of some media study group at college.
However at last someone has raised the idea of the complete uselessness of the current lot running the National Church.
My own views are that Church personnel are trained at the same colleges with the same curriculum as social workers and teachers and come out with in my terminology with the same "tree huggers" philosophy of having the head up their backsides coupled with complete appeasement to all things none Christian and anti-western sentiment.
Time for a return to the robust aggressive Cistercian warrior monk ethic that so completely captured my imagination at University and helped mould Western civilisation.
This bunch of religious conscientious objectors on all things pro-Christian today really makes them look like a bunch of very sad out of touch clowns in medieval costume a joke, a parody of the past proud history of the C of E in shaping our nation and history.
Its highlighted by the very person you are addressing Nazir-Ali and the Archbishop of York both Christians from abroad Asia and Africa who at least do not apologise for being Christians.

Basingstokeboy

Wilhelm
You are a tiresome bore, that idiot that sits at a bar avoided by all for his sanctimonious priggishness
I would like to put it in 2 words but would not get published
I hope you get the message

paul

unfortunately every word you say is true. Even if your not a member of the C of E it still gave a moral compass to the people of this nation and it sways in the wind of passing fads like a piece of waste paper.
If you think of the crusades and i mean the word literally it led against slavery, oppression and barbarism around the world. To seek accomodation with a religion that still advocates slavery of un believers it can make you weep.

Ruairi

An excellent article - may i suggest Mr Liddle that the solution to your problem is to become a Roman Catholic - an organisation that can never be accused of bending the knee to modern fashionable thinking.

If you doubt the accuracy of that statement ask Pope Benedict - with Catholicism you know where you stand.

Gautam

The central question is, Does god exist in the secular realm just as much as it exists in the religious domain? And the short answer is, yes. And when it is so, I wonder about the source of Mr Liddle's angst. Isn't it the purpose of religion to lead one inward to one's spirituality?

The plinth of any secular society rests on its forsaking public display of religious affiliations. Because one's faith is one's private matter. And in instances where religion doesn't lead to the awakening of one's spiritual nature, then it's not worth not talking about in the context of Mr Liddle's concerns.

The whole purpose of the second Vatican council was to "secularise" Christianity; to make it less confrontational with other faiths. The council succeeded in this sense: are there any Christian crusaders taking on jihadis? (The stray one who did was recently consigned to American history.) If churches in Europe have grown effete, it's a sign that their societies have grown stronger, more confident and less in need of the crutch of religion to defend their values and beliefs that, incidentally, remain Christian so to speak.

So why worry about the "nationalisation" of C of E as Wilhelm puts it?

Wilhelm

Basingstokeboy

1. Here's a helpful tip for you, try avoid reading my comments and then you wont be upset, will you ?

2. I dont drink in pubs.

Harry O

Never let it be said that he didn't have a sense of humour, Tony's revenge on the CoE was to appoint the Bearded One to preside over and its decline. Being born catholic I shouldn't care. But for good or ill the CoE was a once cornerstone of British morality and culture. It is fast becoming an despised irrelevance and there is nothing to replace it.

A. MacAulay

It is all very well to deplore the craven relativism of the CoE but there is also an element of "Whingeing Poms" at work here. The simple answer to those who are demolishing the traditional understanding the English have of themselves, their culture and religion is to start going to church! Or is that too difficult to understand? Fill the pews and demand priests with more mettle. Whiners like the AofC simply reflect the uncertainty and self doubt of the English.

I say this as a Scot and sceptical atheist in a Hume-erous way and mean it well.

Graham Lawn

I am sure there are other English bishops who agree with Nazir Ali but are not willing to make the same sacrifice. I will watch Nazir Ali's new work with great interest.

Forlornehope

Face it guys, the only reason the Anglican church exists is because a syphilitic old King wanted to get his leg over a young woman. Other countries went Protestant, either Calvinist or Lutheran, or they remained Catholic. The Church of England is simply doing what it was set up to do, by Elizabeth, bridging all the traditions in the country. The trouble is that these traditions don't just stretch from Luther to Rome, they now have to embrace Dawkins to Mecca as well. People who take their faith seriously almost always move on. Wesley went to Methodism and Newman famously "poped".

My apologies to Cranmer for this; I really appreciate your blog!

R Mitchum

Blair was clever - he appoints Williams and later "jumps ship" having his Iraq sins forgiven by the Catholic Church, and leaves Williams to do to the C 0f E what he had done to Britain. Neat but tragic for the rest of us.

Nicholas Storey

Rodders - Yep spot on again this week m'boy - the only slight fly in the ointment -tarnishing of the gilt on the gingerbread so to speak - is Wilhelm - could his vulgar abuse not be banned please? I don't mean that expression of his substantive opinions be stifled - if he ever gets that far...

Richards

The Archbishop of Canterbury apparently adopts the view that all religions and denominations are equivalent and then wonders why the Church of England has falling congregations

jane from sydney

John 16:12 - "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now" is the key to the coterie now running the C of E. They believe post-modernism, the construction of truth, the equivalence of all cultures & the embracing of "the Other" is the thing Jesus had to tell us that we have not been able to bear until now. After two thousand years, behold, a new thing is born, and aren't they lucky it happened in their generation?!

Tom Holden

I imagine this idiocy is the result of having New Labour PM's appointing the bishops for so many years past. It is all most depressing, and confirms that the UK is completely stuffed, after so many years of bad government.

Roy

Most seem to agree with the article and rightly infer the similarity to the BBC, both however go on and on and on; as if forever, unmolested in their war against truth. As a born member of the C of E but long time turncoat I could have stomached the founding by the debauched Henry V111 if it somehow could show some compassion for England and the English. Far from it, although in its title it is not for England at all. More so it is aligned to them who would delight to see the name expunged from usage. So as I practice my Maori haka I feel more at home than I would within smelling distance with the intellectual academic appeasers we discuss here.

Mr Gregory

How ironic that Mr Liddle approaches the Church of England as a (S)pectator, with a fundamental misunderstanding of the Church simply as the sum of its Bishops. A fundamental misunderstanding, I would argue.

What about the many thousands of Anglicans, congregants and clergy alike, who do good for the lonely, aged, unpopular and unloved.

Perhaps Mr Liddle and his merry band should stop chattering and start 'doing'. Christ was about more than words and chat. He was about acts of service and love.

aurelia

Ruth, when I first moved I visited so many churches and the last one I walked out of 3 sschools and got in my car and drove around for hours crying. Will save details for another time. I have gotten some very good magazine articles addressing the problems in the church today so did not feel like a lone wolf. I am trying also to discipline myself to study on a regular basis. I really relate to you yet I know what you all have invested in FAITH and I know it hurts to see what is happening and not be able to do anything. I grieve for the church today and pray Jesus will rise up and come soon.

alex

What is the point of Rod Liddle ?
beyond the obvious fact that he can both spout forth excrement and yet recieve industrial quantities of the stuff as a free gift from ..err
but still it has to be asked...
what exactly is the point of Rod Liddle ?

Neil Evans

when do you think that instead of political, ecological and social commentary we might actually get something Christian from the CofE? If we want politics etc go to a politician. Let's hope that eventually we'll get a Christian voice heard.

Roger Pearse

The article answers its own question -- the CofE exists to colour with religion whatever the politicians choose to force upon us.

Get rid of it.

Gadfly

Rod should investigate the process and criteria by which CofE bishops are chosen. He will then understand why so very few are faithful to the Founder's teaching, have much grasp of reality, or understand ordinary people and everyday life. If you have spent most of your life in libraries and the senior common rooms of Oxbridge colleges,and prefer - unlike the Founder - to view life and human nature through rose-tinted spectacles, then it should be no surprise to you that most people find it difficult to relate to you and what you advocate in social, political, or anthropological analysis; indeed, most probably consider you something of a muppet - or worse. Bishops are selected largely either for their intellect and erudition, or for their love of committees and talking a lot, or because its the turn for their churchmanship/party so that a broad 'balance'(of ineptitude?!) can be maintained. Very few indeed possess leadership qualities, have had any leadership training, or understand the difference between leadership and management: no wonder the flock are escaping! The great sadness and problem is that the bishops cannot see this whilst those who select them do not want to 'prefer' any who might challenge such a status quo. The Church of England is undoubtedly on its way out, with major schisms about to occur; but the Church IN England - which includes many ordinary Anglicans - is actually in pretty good nick, growing, and doing very effective work in many areas. Michael Nazir-Ali has been (privately) despised and villified by fellow senior clergy because he posesses a sound grasp of realiy and the integrity to speak out against woolly or wishful thinking, naivety or disingenuousness, and downright faithlessness. I hope - and I am pretty sure - that the CofE have not heard the last of him.

carole doherty

My mum bless her used to clean for the Church. Un paid. While she was looking after her terminally ill husband. one day scrubbing the floor the vicar swept in .'good morning' she said. he ignored her down on the floor with her scrubbing brush. She turned to the oh so poshlady doing the flowers and said 'Well a thankyou would have been nice' Oh so posh lady flower arranger replied:. 'You should expect no thanks for doing the Lords work.' My Mum left her scrubbing brush, never to return, save theday of her own funeral. So much for Christian values