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Jobs at Telegraph

Mary Wakefield Welcome to the United States of Amnesia

24 May 2008

Gore Vidal tells Mary Wakefield that America has forgotten its constitutional roots, and explains why Bobby Kennedy was ‘the biggest son of a bitch in politics’

And now here he is, sipping whisky and soda: grey-haired but still kempt and handsome, looking at me with pale, candid eyes. It makes me nervous. I’m a Vidal fan. I think Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace should be a set text; his memoir, Palimpsest, is brilliant, but he’s not fond of hacks. ‘I’ll never give another interview to a print journalist,’ he wrote in 1994. Though of course he has (lots), the sentiment behind the vow remains.

I begin with his beginning. Nina Vidal wasn’t an ideal mother was she? ‘No. She was a drunk and a monster,’ Vidal shrugs. ‘But I didn’t take her seriously, I just ignored her. It was the only thing you could do with her unless you wanted to kill her. But — let’s be equitable — I don’t think many women are good mothers, or men good fathers.’ He lifts his glass and toasts Nina’s ghost.

It’s true — Nina does sound a fright: a rager and a boozer who resented her son’s success. But thankfully little Gore spent most of his childhood at Rock Creek Park with T.P. Gore, the blind but brilliant (and first ever) Senator of Oklahoma. ‘My memories of him? Oh, they’re joyous really.’ Vidal’s voice softens. ‘My grandfather loved books, and so did I. I was the only one of his descendents who had any brain, so I read to him endlessly: Voltaire, Gibbon, Shakespeare.’ Did you inherit his political views? ‘No, I didn’t inherit his views. I ground out my own political ideas.’ The bite’s suddenly back in his bark.

Did you ever make up stories for him? ‘I did write him a poem once, when I was very young. I was an extremely bad poet, but at least I knew I was bad, which is more than some of the poets today do. It was about a rose; about death and mortality and so on, the sort of things the Victorian guys liked. It went like this,’ Vidal adopts a theatrical voice and declaims: ‘That rose is dead. That rose is no longer red.’ Pause. ‘There. My grandfather burst into tears every time I read it to him. Very Victorian. Of course in my family, the Gores of Mississippi, something like 18 were dead in one generation of diabetes.’

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Not Even LIkely

May 22nd, 2008 8:47pm Report this comment

Let's all just lay down and die then, just to please that pompous ass. At least he's a vain egomaniac who thinks he knows everything about everything. God knows, there will never be enough such people.

ghostof'lectricity

May 23rd, 2008 3:05am Report this comment

When I was 17 and Nixon was busy subverting the constitution and there were fears he would declare martial law before allowing to be impeached/convicted and/or forced from office, I, too, thought of middle Americans as porcine oafs, the American body politic as a corrupt excrescence on its death bed, and routinely called police officers "pigs" when engaging in smirking and self-satisfied conversations with my equally self-infatuated adolescent peers. About 35 years later, I still consider myself a liberal, still mourn much of what America is and does, but have come to view things in a much more complex and ambiguous manner. I even think of Nixon as a human being with redeeming features, however flawed he was overall. In short, I stopped being 17 and grew up. Mr. Vidal, sheltered by his inherited money, his snotty mannerisms, and his easy and cowardly self-exile in his Italian redoubt (no corruption in Italian culture, society, or body politic, eh, Signore Vidal?), has continued to be the smirking and contemptuous and loathsome adolescent he has always been, even well into temporal octagenarianism. Not Even Likely, bless you.

Zack Rinderer

May 23rd, 2008 2:49pm Report this comment

Yes, America has forgotten a lot...mostly that people like Gore Vidal know what they are talking about or writing about. Vidal is an elitist who still thinks people like to read his books and hear his words. I tried to read his works but the bad writing and poor stories kept getting in the way. Yes, the Russians had no bad thoughts about the missiles in Cuba and the Islamic fanantic haters really didnt mean to hit those buildings on 9/11. It was all America's fault...maybe it was America's fault that somehow we did raise Gore Vidal to the level of people who really were good and talented and accomplished.

William Esslemont

May 23rd, 2008 3:15pm Report this comment

I liked that - made a refreshing change from all the self serving piffle that often results from a 'celeb' being interviewed

siamdave

May 23rd, 2008 6:34pm Report this comment

- he'll be showing up at a place he'll be welcome when he crosses over - Green Island http://www.rudemacedon.ca/greenisland.html

STOPUSAGiveaway

May 24th, 2008 6:50am Report this comment

I know the problem--is there someone out there who wants to attack those who are causing them? We know we are not under the US & States Constitions

Bill Ross

May 24th, 2008 3:05pm Report this comment

It is not just the yanks who have forgotten, it is our entire species and civilization who have forgotten how to survive and be free. The correction will not be pretty and the costs will be staggering. The sky is truly falling. Whether this is believed or not, there is no avoiding it.

The "rule of law" is a precisely defined law. It is the highest law of mankind, stated below:

“the suppression of forceful and fraudulent methods of goal seeking”

“all are treated equally by the law”. This means ALL, including king and judges

“absolute property rights”

This in turn is based on the fact that human behavior (the topic of law) is about goal seeking. In the seeking of any goal, there are only three possible methods: force, fraud and honest trade. Any transaction that is not an honest, mutually agreed trade will cause a self-defensive response (conflict) from the victim whose survival has been affected.

"The Rule of Law" is the glue that keeps all of mankind acting together in common interest, tied together by mutual dependence of trade, on an evolutionary path to excellence. Force and fraud creates conflict and destroys civilizations. Mankind is now on a devolutionary path to extinction because the co-operation once forced by "the rule of law" has been replaced by legitimizing force and fraud for those who incorrectly believe they wield power.

Rule of Law, Defined: http://www.nazisociopaths.org/modules/article/view.article.php/c1/34

Purpose of, Reasons For: http://www.nazisociopaths.org/modules/article/view.article.php/36

Mathematics of Rule (explains current economic stall):
http://www.nazisociopaths.org/modules/article/view.article.php/c1/32

Bill Ross
(Electronics Design Engineer)

Richard

May 24th, 2008 6:38pm Report this comment

I don't think Not Even Likely or ghostof'lectricity read THIS article. So thanks for bringing your preconceptions and confusing us about wtf you think of one rich old guy who's not afraid to question the official story.

Looks like you have some of Uncle Sam's salad on your face.

Its amazing that to not initiate a war has become synonymous with laying down and dying. Or that pigs are inherently respectable when in uniform.

I wish I could remember when police were helpful, and America peaceful, so I could continue to delude myself, too.

Hambledon

May 24th, 2008 9:28pm Report this comment

It's "lying down," actually, you illiterate swine.

Bob Robertson

May 25th, 2008 1:01am Report this comment

I appreciate Vidal's caustic insights. Being woken up is not a pleasent thing. However, he directs his ire against "conservatives" while forgetting that both Truman and Wilson, who he attacks for their policies in this interview, were Democrats. FDR nationalized and socialized great swaths of American life, also a Democrat, building upon Hoover's policies of economic control, a Republican. Not Dem or Rep, Liberal or Conservative, are innocent of the crimes being committed against the Constitution. They cooperate with each other, voting for each others programs, in order for each to gain yet more power. The Constitution and Bill of Rights, if enforced, would cut Washington DC to the bone. I agree with Vidal that the lot of them should be locked up, at least, and many of them shot for treason. If the entirety of Washington DC were to vanish tomorrow, the world would be a better place. Same for London, Rome, Moscow, Madrid, and all the "hives of scum and villainy."

contrarywise

May 25th, 2008 1:26am Report this comment

Oh, my. I'm crazy about Vidal's NON-fiction, but it can't be denied that he is and was damned bitchy and jealous as hell of the Kennedys.
But right on about the American empire.

Brian McCandliss

May 25th, 2008 4:47am Report this comment

"Constitutional roots" mean nothing without the state sovereignty to enforce it. Ever since Lincoln, big industry and mob rule have resulted in nothing but higher taxes and fewer freedoms. To date, the "experts" up on whom the people depend for their information regarding the law, have never scrutinized the federal claim of national authority over the states. Mr. Vidal doesn't have a clue.

Cassiopeia

May 25th, 2008 6:24am Report this comment

I like Gore Vidal. He is honest. He sees things through
different eyes; he is brilliant; well-traveled; street-wise (or elitist-wise). I do think that he sees through
hypocricy and he isn't afraid to say it like it is. I think that his childhood has left a painful scar and his rhetoric at times is rough. We all have
pain and we all express ourselves from that pain.
He is a patriot no matter what.

Oferseon

May 26th, 2008 3:40am Report this comment

Thank god Vidal is impressed with himself................for that is all he is left with.

Max Kaye

May 26th, 2008 10:55am Report this comment

Gore Vidal is mostly wrong and utterly irrelevant.

His bitchiness is entertaining, however. (Although he does somewhat lower his standards by shooting [sic] at easy targets like the Kennedys - who richly deserve any opprobrium heaped on them. I suppose, however, that this is a novelty coming from someone on the Left).

Anthony Ozimic

May 28th, 2008 12:31pm Report this comment

Vidal's answers reveal the true face of liberalism: rambling, evasive, unconvincing, capricious and hubristic. His books alone are proof-positive of the need for strict censorship.

peter adler

May 28th, 2008 11:36pm Report this comment

Slightly false marketing here. If Vidal did "explain *why* Bobby Kennedy was ‘the biggest son of a bitch in politics’", the interviewer regrettably does not pass it on to her readers.

laurie macdonell-sanchez

May 29th, 2008 8:52pm Report this comment

You've ALL missed a very important point: If there was a cherry in that "Scotch & soda," then he was actually having a Scotch sour--or two, or three, or--

Wilf

June 1st, 2008 12:57pm Report this comment

No fool like an old fool.

David Short

June 1st, 2008 11:41pm Report this comment

By the way, Vidal repudiated this article, saying the 'girl' got it wrong and that he didn't say many of the things she reported.

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