Shouting abuse at fat people is not just fun. It’s socially useful

Joan Appleton

With reference to R. Liddle's article in praise of Cameron's speech north of the border.
Is here more than a whiff the jackboot here? methinks there is.

Paul Wallis

Telling someone that their furniture is crap is socially useful.

Matthew Wilson

Sorry, what's all this about Rod's furniture? Can someone kindly explain?

Excelsior

Remove the stigma and its no longer anti-social behavior

David Short

I wouldn't advise kicking fat ladies and their fat kids in supermarkets.

Highly possible there's a prison-lean, very fit 'partner' in the car park or a mobile phone call away who will kick you, or someone totally innocent, a lot harder. Or worse.

As for drinking too much, didn't I once read RL saying he opened a bottle of Rioja while listening to 'Today'?

Mind you, I can't blame him for that. Whoever's on, a sneering John, an overposh Edward, or a blustering James, he will make you reach for the bottle.

I did have to turn the radio off though when James Naughtie gave a reverential audience to Bob Geldof. No interrupting or interminable cross-questioning for Saint Bob.

Keep that for our elected representatives and the Ministers of the Queen, eh?

D Short

Mr Liddle, I am fat, and I'm not proud of it. Nevertheless, I am still a Geordie ready to use his fists. If you shout abuse at me, put up your dukes. Fair fight, I promise.

Bart

I am not the slightest bit ashamed of my excess weight, as it is the result of the expenditure of my hard-earned cash, not the dole. It is not the result of fast food or junk food. McDonalds never passes down my gullet. It is the product instead of years of travel, of experiencing pate in the Dordogne or Peking Duck in Beijing along with wines from Alsace, the Douro or even Argentine Malbec. Lots of prime rib, Kobe steak and lobster went into my girth. And I don't exercise much but when you have a lot of professional responsibility, you don't get a lot of time to exercise much. Mr. Liddle would, I'm sure, love to insult and assault me, however, he probably can't afford the restaurants I frequent unless the Speccie pays a lot better than I think it does. Salads are for wimps.

Air

Perhaps Mr Liddle would care to comment on the social uses of stigmatizing unmarried fathers -- from firsthand experience.

Shelagh

Rod, when last were you in Africa? Poverty there is often a causal factor of obesity, simply because porridge, sugar and edible fat are a great deal cheaper than leafy salads, lean chicken and sushi. And it's not a result of laziness either as many thousands of obese African women leave for work at 4.30am, walk to the taxi or bus, work for the lean and wealthy and return home after dark.

Ganpat Ram

Agreed, Liddle.

But be prepared to be punched.

Fat people will defend themselves with whatever means are to hand.

This society quivers before tough-acting Muslims.

A lesson for fat people there.

Does maintaining fat people cost the country?

Tough ! Pay up.

Dane Clouston

"Leave aside poverty for a moment"! I should think so too!.

How CAN intelligent people like the present Conservative leadership talk about poverty being peoples' own choice or fault when some people inherit hundreds of millions without lifting a finger while others inherit nothing during their lifetime? Is it a blind spot or collective self-interested hypocrisy from those who - or whose children - stand to inherit?

Reform is long overdue of the ludicrously unfair Inheritance Tax. Margaret Thatcher spread the private ownership of capital more widely with the sale of council houses. What are this bunch going to do about our ever growing and increasingly dangerous inequality of wealth? Whatever happened to the Conservative Opportunity Society and meritocracy? When can wealth be redistributed other than at the point of transfer from each generation to the next?

The front page headline of the Daily Telegraph on 23rd December 2005 was "Letwin: we will redistribute wealth" and the article went on to talk of "empowering people". Whatever happened to all that? No need now, perhaps, now that they are doing so well in the polls! If I were them, I wouldn't count on that..

A British Universal Inheritance of 10% of average national wealth (£90,000) could be financed by a progressive Unearned Capital Receitps Tax starting at 10% related to receipts - not to giving and bequeathing - of unearned capital in tandem with a flat rate 10% recording Donor Tax on the luxury expenditure of ALL bequeathing and giving capital, with the latter tax offset against the former to avoid double taxation.

Where are Conservative hearts? Imagine, for a start, a £9,000 British Universal Inheritance for every British-born British citizen at the age of 25, regardless of family or parental fortunes, generosity, saving or investment skills, (unlike Baby Bonds/Child Trust Funds) now , not in 18 years' time - in Glasgow East amongst other places!

See OPPORTUNITY - The Campaign for British Universal Inheritance - www.universal-inheritance.org

Ganpat Ram

This is a very old school-yard problem: sneering smooth-faced fellows like Cameron and Liddle picking on the classic soft target to vent their cowardly sadism: the fat.

Real tough guys do not pick on the fat but treat them with tolerant amusement.

Bullies always do pick on them.

The answer, as I know from much personal experience, is to call out the smooth-faced bully and punch him hard in his simpering treacherous Cameron-like face.

He will go away sobbing and leave you alone for ever.

Some of Britian's most belligerently admiranble men were fat: Churchill and Dr Johnson.

We have got your measure, Liddle.

Talia

"the wallets of you and I"?
Come on, Rod and Speccie, a bit of basic grammar wouldn't go amiss (should be "of you and me", if you're still struggling)

Joshua Judd

Bravo to Mr. Liddle. Everyone is a 'victim'. The burgler accidentally locking himself in the house he is burglering is a victim. I drove too fast and received a speeding ticket. I am a victim because my car goes too fast and television shows ads for fast cars. etc.. He should have kicked that fat harridan all the way to the community centre gym.

Barry F. H. Graham

Liddle comments that while people may make bad choices for their health, none choose to be poor. What about the astonishing over 10% of people in the UK on invalidity benefit or unemployment assistance?

Mr Moses

Oh, I do think this is a humourous article and worthy of wider publication. I love some of the responses too! Well done Ron Liddle!

Symian Foppe

Our Rod is fast becoming a living national treasure. The former Socialist Workers Party and LSE activist, thrown out of one of the better jobs in British radio for deriding the hunting lobby, these days demonstrates impeccable right- wing libertarian attitudes in his Speccie articles. But don't you just love the way there still linger in his pieces those quaint reflex mementos from the early days of his political journey, like old socks at the bottom of a rucksack ? For all his admiration for Cameron's words and courage, our Rod can't help himself: "effete public-school monkey" indeed. Silly boy. It's really very sweet, though. And reminds us all of his impeccable convert status. How many make the journey in the oppoosite direction ?

Laura Mars

While we're at it, let's stigmatize other undesirable behaviours, like adultry.

John havenhand

I'm with Rod on this one. We need to be more judgmental cos the cost of human stupidity is too expensive for the rest of us. (I don't care much if they are overweight - although it is carbon unfriendly - as long as I don't pay for it) Bit of economic determinism there - but don't be too judgmental on the SWP. It's produced some very good libertarians. Right on Rod!

Anne

Hey I've lost lots of weight and I've still got lots to lose but I'm no victim.
Hey what is wrong with the rest of you, why do you not like people who are a bit overweight?

schopenhauer

Great article! Just to be honest thought, while Rod is right that "fat can have a genetic component", the apparently social causes of obesity "more often than stupidity, laziness and gluttony" are also highly heritable. Not to say the problems cannot be overcome, indeed, quite easily overcome, but in addition to metabolic differences, leading internal risk factors for obesity include inherited low IQ, laziness and gluttony.

Richard

The collapse of the Labour Movement, something the Tories brought about, created a vacuum which the cultural Left filled.

The Tories allowed welfare dependency to escalate because the 'underclass' do not vote.

New Labour greatly increased this dependency and encouraged mass immigration to compensate for the loss of potential voters.

It will take more than a few harsh words from a Tory toff to start undoing the damage.

Policies might help: like signing people off after one year or so. This was just about the only good thing the Clinton administration done.

Foppe's admirer

Rod, harsh but spot on. Sadly it is rather unlikely that the Etonians will really see it through and reward good diets by providing fiscal and social incentives for people to eat and live healthily. The obese proletariat uses food, as it still uses cigarettes and alcohol as a form of entertainment and comfort. As any fule kno our modern society has no concept of delayed gratification. Children are brought up to expect things to be given to them when they want. How many parents ban their children from eating sweets, chocolate, crisps and cake? Yep, the uberconscious middle class worriers! Do children know what a "treat" is anymore? Everybody has rights and we want things here and now. Most people live in "relative poverty" compared to the rich, so they are never satisfied with their lot. Whether Left or Right are in office it will take a seismic shift in the moral compass(e.g. a World War or mass starvation) to alter the creed of instant satisfaction.

Andrew

Does Rod smoke? I notice he conveniently omits mention of this vice! We should be told.

David Short

Let's all go to Eton!

Then we'll all be lovely, thin, rich, well-behaved and generally a wonderful nation1

Hope we can all get in. Or should we have wealthy parents?

Now, how does 'one' arrange that?

Ganpat Ram

I support the reader who wants adultery to be something to ruthlessly abuse people for.

It breaks up families and puts a strain on our wallets by forcing increased social spending.

Boris Johnson should be a prime target.

I am sure there are other Conservative bigwigs who are guilty, too.

By the way, even if working-class obesity does cost the taxpayer money, so what?

This country's wealth was created by the working class in the past. Time for them to put in the bill.

The rich benefited disproportionately in the past.

Now it's the working class' turn to loaf and idle and indulge themselves.

How about it, Liddle?

John Farquhar

Would you be so kind as to give us ignoramuses a very short profile of the person who writes the Diary page each week?

Trevor Hogg

As Matthew Paris once pointed out you dont see fat people in pictures of concentration camp victims.

Paul Wray

The country is completely finished and you are talking about a few lard arses. Madness.

Roger

Oh dear, Rod, these posters aren't much fun, are they?

Well, I've had a laugh and emailed it to all me mates as well.

John Mortimer was great about about this on "This Week" a while ago. He just said I'm fat, so call me fat. He wasn't for any of this mamby pamby censorship of common sense language.

Do I dislike John Mortimer because he's fat? Of course not. But neither do I feel the need to think he is need of some special pitying.

He enjoys what he does and accepts responsibility for himself like a grown adult.

So why do some people think we all have to pussyfoot around the fat issue?

This is where victimhood culture leads us: to lunacy.

Mark Solomon

Rod Little is a fool-and an ignorant one at that. To start with he clearly did not understand the sentence Cameron uttered with respect to poverty - he did not include it in the list of things that were a person's fault, but rather one of the results (social excusion being the other) of this list. Personally I would argue that poverty indeed IS one of the unavoidable consequences of the decisions people make and very often is down to the individual (not taking education or work seriously, not getting qualifications, being lazy and untrustworthy does tend to lead to poverty!)-but that's another issue.

Given that he had problems understanding a difficult English sentence - although not beyond someone of education - it comes as no surprise to learn that he is as ignorant of diseases as he is of English.

Addiction in all its forms (and alcoholism is nothing more than addiction to alcohol) most definitely IS a disease-the BMA and American Medical Association and the World Health Organisation have recognised it as such for years and Mr Little reveals again his lack of education in asserting that black is white. Addiction is almost entirely comparable to cancer - a chronic life threatening illness, in this case an extreme obsessive-compulsive disorder of the mind. Would you blame a diabetic or a cancer patient for their condition? So why blame the addict? Rod should go and read the Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book, it's only been available for about 60 years, so you can hardly claim all of this is new and revolutionary. Unfortunately understanding the nature of addiction is too complicated for men of little brain, pandering to common prejudice is so much easier, but why the Spectator should print such an inaccurate and hateful piece is beyond me.

Now laughing at fat people, that's fine, after all there are only very few and very limited cases of clinical obesity as opposed to simple gluttony and stupidity.

Nicholas Storey

What an offensive, egocentric prig you are, Liddle; with your Acvtivia-based breakfast and your raw vegetable lunch and your 'organically'- grown asparagus for what you, undoubtedly, call your 'tea' - but - you have a point - the UK is on its uppers and the heavier that those (visually obstructive)'love handles' get, that lady at the check-out is going to find it harder and harder to get into her four wheel drive to get the bags of 'Monster Munch' home - that is, anyway, for as long as the HP company lets her keep the car...
NJS.

Ray

Believe it or not, Rod is actually right: the need to addictively imbibe alcohol is one of the criterion on the Disability Living Allowance form that will add points on your application towards receiving it.

So it's official: this obscene Government regards alcoholism as a 'disability' in exactly the same way it does multiple sclerosis or Down's Syndrome!

Alex Blakemore

Is this the same Mr Liddle whose own personal behaviour (particularly with respect to lone parenthood, alcohol and addiction to nicotine) is beyond reproach? He is not to be mistaken for an apparently overweight, Rioja-guzzling adulterous absent father with nicotine-induced hair streaks, often to be seen frothing at the mouth while shopping.
I would venture to suggest that telling someone that they are a pathetic hypocritical nincompoop is a lot more socially useful than legitimising social bullying and condescension.
PS I did wonder who that potato-faced psychopath snorting and twitching behind me in the supermarket queue was.....

JudgeJudy

How does Rod Liddle know what tramp-semen-flavoured nacho chips taste like?

Janey

What do you mean? Are you saying that all the abuse I have had in the past because I am fat, wasn't in fact abuse at all? All the stigma attached to me for being a fat woman was all in my head? Oh well, just be being over sensitive then. Sorry, I'll bend over now and let you kick me up the arse and I'll know that this time it was meant personally.

a bray

Mr Liddle

FYI

stu•pid•i•ty
–noun, plural -ties for 2. 1. the state, quality, or fact of being stupid.
2. a stupid act, notion, speech, etc.

Unfortunately for you, you fall into both of those definitions. I was wondering, maybe next time when you have verbal diarrhoea and spout rubbish when being highly paid for it, you may use your words more wisely, that is, if you know what wisely means.
I was horrified to read the article in relation to fat people, even more horrified to read on whilst your verbal rant continued. Iam fat. I am also not stupid. I have a degree and a Masters. I also am nurse. A very non-stupid one. I will look out for you when you arrive in A&E with injuries requiring treatment and use my non-stupidness in the decision to leave you crying with the pain.
All the best.

Meatcruncher

I am worried that I have a major character flaw. Having read Rod Liddle’s venomous and vitriolic article, all I can do is feel sorry for Mr Liddle.
Whereas obese people could diet, increase their exercise or even resort to bariatric surgery, and therefore meet the criteria demanded by Mr Liddle to be in his presence, I somehow doubt Mr Liddle will ever become a nice person who can improve the human gene pool and therefore will forever be excluded from the criteria required by society to be a decent human being.
Still, we all have our crosses to bear, and being an arrogant, nasty and obnoxious sub-human is obviously Mr Liddle’s. I am just grateful that my lot in life is to have been bullied all my life for being overweight, which seems to have made me more tolerant of those less fortunate than me. Rather that than a bully.

Slimshady

Did anyone see the photos of the party Brits in Dubai?
What a choice crowd of chubby booze chuggers.
It dawned on me that a solution would be to ship all the lardy butts there. In no time they'd be caught shagging, drunk on the beach.
A spot of jail time with all the 'foreign muck' food would do wonders for their weight. Sorted.

Crofty

Thank goodness that Mr Liddle actually believes that fat people and addicts should be helped.

Of course his brand of help consists of being bullied and humiliated.

I'm glad I didn't go to his school!

Tsz San So

It is quite right that Cameron has pointed out that the personal responsibility causes of social ills has often been neglected - there is so much the state can do if there is no intention on the part of the individuals. However, Rod Little is a little sloppy in his argument and overlooked the fact that obesity can be a by product of poverty - for example in the US the most fattening foods are also the cheapests. Also, healthy organic produce comes at a price premium.

Tsz San So

Need to make people realise that a lack of personal responsibility results in negative externality, a burden on others, and hence is morally objectionable.

Bart

The inanity of Rod Liddle and some of the posters is truly amazing.

The only reason that obesity is some sort of national problem anywhere is that the nanny-staters and puritans are taking over. If people simply said to each other, 'You live your life the way you want to and I'll do the same. I'm not responsible for your problems and you're not responsible for mine.' , we'd all be a lot better off. In other words, if Britain did not have socialized medicine, the alleged costs of obesity will be borne by the obese themselves. As a self-employed American, my excess girth increases what I pay for medical insurance by about 33%. If I smoked, it would increase by another significant percentage. The upshot is that my weight is my problem, not that of my fellow citizens. End socialized medicine and employer-mandated health care and the problem ends.

If it comes down to a choice between chowing down a kilo of prime rib and a 750ml bottle of Chateau Petrus, or not offending Mr. Liddle's aesthetic sensibilities, I'll choose the former. And, before he decides to hurl gratuitous invective my way, Mr. Liddle should be aware I live in a US State that permits the carrying of concealed weapons.

BTW,if obesity offends him so much, where does he stand on the fetid stench from tobacco products?

General Cancel

I offer prayers for 'the fat' at my church.

Sue Ward

I agree with Rod that some people are fat because they live sedantry lifestyles and eat more calories than they consume, I don't quite understand why being fat constitutes an antisocial behaviour though? After all, fat people don;t generally break into homes to feed their habit, beat people up after a binge and I don't recall anyone every dying from passive eating. OK so us fat people's illnesses might cost money to treat but as we are supposed to die sooner than thin people we won't be drawing our pensions or living long enough to contract the diseases of old age. Personally I am obese but I actually eat a balanced diet and am an excellent cook. I don;t really want people shouting 'fatso' in the street at me but then I think I don't deserve it because I am a middle class Speccie reading fattie who doesn't have Sky+ and has never eaten KFC! I strongly suspect middle class people like Rod who hate fatties, actually are snobs who hate chavs, and an awful lot of chavs happen to be lardy!

Hereford

"few people wish to be poor and most have the ability to make decisions which would enable them not to be so, were that possible. But except in a minority of cases, the choices are not available to them."

Rod, this is rot. Everyone has opportunities to become, at least comfortable financially. The world is full of people who were brought up in impoverished circumstances and, by dint of hard work and application, and without the benefit of education or inheritance, have dragged themselves up into relative affluence. The days when the only wealthy people in the world inherited their wealth, gained through slavery, exploitation of the masses and general upper class stuff, from rich land owning parents. Near where I live in Norfolk there is a huge enterprise which was founded by an uneducated and illiterate car mechanic who can't even use a photocopier.

Stop making excuses for the poor. They have it in their power to be better off. But to do so they will need to make choices and all choices should and do have consequences.

The worst thing we are doing in our society is an attempt to make choices consequence free. If you want to be more wealthy, you have to stop spending your money on fags, fast food and booze and start saving it, investing it and/or working harder.

Biped

Rod, me old mucker, I 'appen to fink you are a wordsmith of the highest calibre.

Aye doff my cap in your general direction for the lucidity of your argument, and for making me look like a gibbering moron for splattering me computer screen with the coffee I was drinking.

Well done!

Max

Nice article, really, nice, and extremely classy.

I think I can see what you are trying to say, but I feel your message has got somewhat lost within this display of gleeful schadenfraude.

It must be so much fun to be able to light the blue touch paper, and step sharply away from One's keyboard.

Krista Hyde

Hrm. And all this time I'd thought the AMA, the APA and the DSM-IV classified addictions as illnesses. Silly me.

Laura

Makes me hungry for Kentucky Fried Chicken

Bernadette Bosky

I'd like to think this is actually a humor column.

Whether people become fat because they are "stupid and lazy" or not, stigma will not help. Think of all the things people say about being fat: it is less healthy, less comfortable, less attractive. If it feels that bad to be fat, shouldn't fat people have enough motive to change, without stigma?

Actually, many fat people are very bright people who work hard at demanding, but sedentary, jobs. Typical computer programmer, anyone? Certainly not stupid and lazy.

Anne

"So instead of doing nothing I set the negro mother on fire with my Zippo lighter and, on the way out, kicked the smallest negro child hard in the gut. Nearly lost my boot, too; entire leg almost swallowed whole. "

Yeah I went there. Because hate speech is hate speech no matter who you're targeting and no matter how much you feel you're justified for it.

ikana

How about some social stigma applied to smartmouth commenters who deserve to have the stuffing kicked out of *them?*

R N

Wow I guess the fatties are out in droves given by the comments to this hilarious piece. Rod, you will be pleased to know, that you have caused a bunch of fatties at this "Fat Acceptance" blog called "bigfatblog" to huff and puff over this. They are the ones leaving comments like "This makes me hungry for KFC". Great job at dispelling the stereotypes about fat people morons. Being fat is not like being black, not like being gay and not like being anything (except self-indulgent and lazy). These fat activists make me sick. They dare to compare their frivolous obsessions such as getting plus size lingerie to the legitimate struggles black people, gay people etc. face.
They make a mockery of real struggles against very real discrimination faced by other groups, with their insistence that any mild condemnation of their tendency to eat say an entire pig at one sitting with a bucket of frosting on the side is hate speech. Ugh...
I have sympathy for fat people, but these fat activists are just deluded morons and they advocate a harmful ideology.

Sharon

RN wrote: "These fat activists make me sick."

The feeling is mutual, I assure you.

"They dare to compare their frivolous obsessions such as getting plus size lingerie"

Frivolous, is it? I bet you wouldn't think it so frivolous if we had to walk around naked because of not having any clothes to wear, I bet you'd explode in a fit of fury and suddenly start demanding that we clothe ourselves.

"I have sympathy for fat people"

No you don't. Don't pretend you have sympathy for people and then call them deluded morons in the next breath, it just makes you look like an idiot.

"..., but these fat activists are just deluded morons"

You're the deluded moron. You don't know anything about the eating habits of fat people, which are extremely similar to everyone else, but from your wrong beliefs you advocate abuse.

Maybe one day you will get fat, as a side-effect of medication, perhaps, and then you will find out just what it's like to be treated badly for no other reason than people not liking your appearance. Enjoy the experience you helped to cause...

Louise Hunter

Mr Liddle, you are no Jonathan Swift. Thanks for trying, though. I'm sure one day you'll feel much better about yourself.

Samantha

Article translation: Ron Liddle has low self-esteem and feels the need to be a total prick in order to feel better about himself. Picking on fat people is so original, right? Lame.

Jackie

What next Ron, do you suggest lynching fat people? How about burning crosses in their yard? Oh but don't stop there! There are still other things you can do, to attack the fat threat. Rape fat kids, and insure they will be so insecure and self-hating that they'll have to gain an eating disorder of some form, resulting in them being thin! Oh wait I know, pack them up in trains and send them off to camp! Oh..hold on, hasn't that been done before with another group of people? The lynching and cross burning too, hmm I can't remember who that happened with. Oh yeah, I remember now, Jews and Blacks, two groups of people, among others who have been horribly discriminated against. We now know that it was wrong to treat them that way.

Rod Liddle, it's not brave to incite violence and fear in a group of people whom you deem "undesirables" But hey, I hear they're having a sale on military uniforms over at the Salvation Army! Now all you need is to buy a fake mustache and your set!

In serious though, you are not funny, not original, and a complete waste of a life. You are no more clever than a bully in a high school.

Then in some way I pity you as well, I would hate having to live a life where I would need to feel such a vitrolic hate towards those different than me. I imagine it must be very stressful.

So you go ahead, go ahead and attack those who have been deemed society's current paraiahs. All you are doing is showing that you are a seriously flawed human being, who probably could use a trip to the psychatrist. It's people like you Ron Liddle, who need to be gotten rid of.

AnnieMcPhee

So, it starts out like A Modest Proposal (on crack)but seems to get quite serious, making the beginning pretty horrifying. Shouting abuse at fat people will not change anything, except to make you a nasty, abusive person. It doesn't make people thin, it just makes them mad. By the way, social stigmas are not exercised by shouting abuse. Unless you're like, 8. And no, there is no real evidence that most fat people are that way due to irresponsible behavior - quite the opposite. It is not like alcohol or drug abuse in that sense, which throws your whole thesis out the window. Not that it was a good one anyway. And, seriously, what the hell is wrong with you?

Bart, your answer was not only hilarious, it was downright inspiring lol. Perfect way to spotlight the absurdity in this ridiculous piece.

AnnieMcPhee

RN (I hope that doesn't mean nurse) you say, "They make a mockery of real struggles against very real discrimination faced by other groups"

Such as how fat people with fat children are having their children taken away from them? (For no other reason than fat? No abuse, no neglect, etc.) Or having deadly surgery to amputate their stomachs pushed on them? Or being called by the US government a worse threat than terrorism (with the accordant war on obese people taking place?) Or maybe you are referring to the people that DIE because they can't get medical care because doctors often can't see past the fat to treat the actual ailments? http://fathealth.wordpress.com/ This could go on all day, all these mild criticisms that we dare to call bigotry and oppression. Imagine getting angry because your child was removed from your custody due to fatness. The nerve!

"with their insistence that any mild condemnation of their tendency to eat say an entire pig at one sitting with a bucket of frosting on the side is hate speech. Ugh..."

And I suppose talk of lighting someone on fire and drop-kicking her child is love-speech. I assure you, studies demonstrate time after time that *most* fat people eat basically the same as *most* thin people. I know I average 1600-2000 calories a day (which is supposed to cause weight loss galore in someone my size and activity - oops! There goes that theory.) But even if they did eat more than most, that's none of you business and it wouldn't excuse what the author of the piece HIMSELF refers to as abuse.

"I have sympathy for fat people"

Why? No one wants or needs your pity or sympathy. We are not broken thin people. We are not subhuman. We aren't even gluttons and sloths. We're your neighbors, your co-workers, people with families, husbands, children, intelligence, beliefs, faith, hopes, interests, talents and hobbies just like anyone else. If we deserve sympathy it's only because of the discrimination and abuse we face from ignorant bigots.

"but these fat activists are just deluded morons and they advocate a harmful ideology."

Start googling the obesity paradox. Harmful my fat ass. You simply don't have a clue what you're talking about because you just bleat out what the media drills into you day in and day out without ever researching or thinking about it. I feel sorry for YOU.

Grim

Mark Solomon - "Addiction is almost entirely comparable to cancer - a chronic life threatening illness, in this case an extreme obsessive-compulsive disorder of the mind."

Hmm, it is a very sobering (no pun intended) thought when a doctor says you will die within a year if nothing is done.

"You have cancer (Hodgkins)"
"Ohh, what can I do to be rid of it?"
"Nothing, you will need chemo/radiotherapy"
"Fine - when do I start?"
"It's really unpleasant btw, but you will have an 85% chance to live"
"I don't give a f**k how unpleasant it is, I want to start tomorrow, and if I remortgage my house can I bump my chances up to 86%?"

Vs

"Your obesity/alchoholism/drug addiction will shorten your life considerably if it continues"
"Ohh, what can I do to be rid of it?"
"Well, how about stopping; you are an adult aren't you, you do understand the concept of cause and effect?"
"Aww, but I like eating/drinking/getting off my face"
"..."

NOT 'entirely comparable' by a country mile. As having chemotherapy raises the chance for other cancers for the rest of my life I took the wise decision to stop smoking - not hard at all.

I was in the club NO ONE wants to be a member of, full of people worse off than me. Of all the other members I met not one had a frown, not one was crying about fates cruel hand. I am very sure that every one of these people would have bitten your hand off if given the option of swapping their cancer for an addiction to beat.

A bit of perspective please.

AnnieMcPhee

And in the case of fat, Grim, it's not a disease at all, or an addiction to beat. Because it isn't a disease, it doesn't kill you. (A friend of mine was given 5 years to live due to her weight, if she didn't lose it...30 years later she hasn't lost a pound, and is not only alive, but in perfect health - **just like she was when she was told that.**) Keep trying to grasp this - it's not a disease. Fat isn't ZOMG killing everyone. Because it isn't an addiction, there's nothing one has to do to "beat" being fat. One need only live normally, eating when they are hungry, stopping when they are full, and exercising moderately and regularly in order to have the best health it is possible for them to have. It won't make thin, it won't guarantee they will NOT get cancer or otherwise sick, but it is a good rule of thumb for all people, no? Again, look up the obesity "paradox" regarding health.

Zak Neumann

I'm 20 stone. I also cycle about 90-100 miles per week and have a lot of strenght and stamina. I get verbally abused quite often. But never to my face ... cowards. Abusers are all the same, and usually quite fragile looking. I'd love to have my way with them, but I would go to prison for a long time. But, I'd be as bad as them. Don't let the b'stards drag you don't to thier level.

fred

I know of few people who are "willfully fat." Since Mr. Liddle didn't ask this woman how she got fat, but instead engaged in a juvenile fantasy about assaulting her, then turned around and passively-aggressively berated her in a public forum, it would seem to me he is the one with anti-social tendencies.

Here's a novel concept: There's no one to blame for obesity, because there's nothing blameworthy about the variation in human form.

He gives a nod to the role of genetics in obesity, but does not fully recognise that the genetic component of obesity is, in most cases, as great as that of height. Yet no one tells short people that if they just wanted to badly enough, or cared enough about themselves, or were responsible enough, or behaved as others told them to, they would surely grow taller! It also might shock Mr. Liddle and other holier-than-thous to realise that most fat people eat no differently than most thin people; that physical activity is far more important to health than weight, and that weight and health are not synonymous.

And obviously, the Spectator isn't going to realise any time soon that publishing bile like this does nothing to advance its reputation.

Jackie

"As Matthew Paris once pointed out you dont see fat people in pictures of concentration camp victims." - Trevor Hogg

Your point is? We should send fat people to concentration camps? Are you sick, or just ignorant?

AnnieMcPhee

Concentration camps? I can't believe someone said that. What a disgusting thing to say. No, you didn't see fat people in them, you saw *starving, emaciated, tortured, enslaved* people in concentration camps. I would have though it went without saying that that was, er, a BAD thing. A very very bad thing. And who do you think lasted through the starvation longer? Those who started out with more fat or less? But hey, great idea - throw all the fat people into concentration camps. You wonder if such people's moms had any children that lived.

Fred, your comment was spot-on from start to finish. Well said.

James

If alcoholism and obesity are diseases then they're the only diseases you should get yelled at for having.

Andrew

This is a shameful, hate-filled article. I am surprised The Spectator can endorse these 'colourful' views at all.

Please don't allow this aggressive and attention-seeking man to lower the tone of the publication in this way again.

Ann Coppens

Shame on you and your tirade. Good idea to encourage verbal abuse of the obese--it will encouage outdoor walks and nutritious shopping. When will cancer become one's fault due to eating the wrong food, or excessive negative thinking? There are predispositions to 'societal ills'-you seem predisposed to snobbery and a keen wit wasted upon a mean, vile, LITTLE man...

Sandra

Liddle's column is a masterpiece of prejudice. He really ought to take some time out from his hate-fest to read scientific research on the topics of addiction and obesity. But he won't, he's too stupid to realize that he's stupid.

Bridget Turner

It is difficult to know if Rod Liddle was being ironic in his article 'Shouting abuse at fat people is not just fun. It's socially useful'. Many of the comments made were judgemental, hurtful and ill-informed.

It certainly did nothing to encourage or help those needing or wanting to lose weight to do so. His stance assumes that people choose to be overweight - when there may be any number of social, psychological, educational and genetic factors that all play a part.

Indeed those with greater assets can afford to buy the support they might need to help reduce their weight and therefore reduce their risk of Type 2 diabetes and other conditions.

Over eighty per cent of Type 2 diabetes is caused by obesity - but that means that twenty per cent is not. Society needs to work together to deliver the services to tackle this challenge - providing the education , information, support, treatment and opportunity for individuals to help people to manage their lives and their health.

Chastising people because of their physical attributes or the conditions they may have does not help anyone - it only makes for greater stigmatisation.

Bridget Turner, Head of Healthcare Policy, Diabetes UK

Helena

Shame on the Spectator for giving the pompous, ignorant bully-in-the-playground Liddle space and endorsement. Why doesn't he tell us what was in HIS shopping trolley or what exercise HE does? His hate-article is far more anti-social than the fat people he hates so much.

Would he set fire to fat people like John Mortimer, Churchill, Roosevelt, Chubby Checker, Dawn French, Peggy Mount, Robbie Coltrane, Richard Griffiths, Pavarotti, Hattie Jacques, Orson Welles, Oliver Hardy, John Goodman, Roseanne Barr.

Or does Liddle reserve his venom for poor, ordinary, fat people?

I'm obese (and a graduate, and a professional author). I bet Liddle £10,000 that I eat less than he does AND that I get more exercise. When he loses I get to set him on fire and kick his children -- because he'll have proved himself more gluttonous and lazy than one of the obese people upon whom he heaps his astonishing tirade of abuse.

Lau

Such an article was sure to illicit response from every person who falls into one of the categories of fat, poor and stupid the author lists, especially the latter, as they are less likely to appreciate the tinge of exaggeration employed to make the point. This is not a tirade against anyone not conforming to the elongated ideal set by Thin People: It is simply making the point, that seeing a fellow citizen and countryman descend into such depths of obesity and ill-health brings shame on us as a nation. How are we ever to raise a nation of enlightened, healthy children when so many are being spawned by such creatures? Apparently, the approach taken thsu far hasn't worked, and whilst bodily arson and physical violence may not set the best example to the aformentioned young generation, giving the fat and lazy a good metaphorical kick is a liberating change. Why should we be ashamed to defend the idea of a healthy Britain?

John Creek

Excellent stuff - as usual - especially the bit about Shami Chakarabati's face...

Surellin

I think that, if a majority or even a large minority of the population doesn't meet your criteria for quality, then the problem is yours, not theirs. Further, I think that it is quite reasonable to fear the appalling arrogance of the utopian.

Tish

ok so there's a lot of overweight people in britain or wherever right...i am overweight myself and i take full responsibility for myself...i work...i go to college...i am extremely active...but i would like to make a point that just because i'm overweight, it most definitely does NOT mean i'm stupid. i was always one of the top in my classes and i got extrememely good grades all throughout school so how can you say that because you're overweight, you're stupid...no one has a fat gene in their head, being overweight doesn't affect your knowledge it affects your mobility more than anthing else...so if you want to talk about fat people...and how they're supposedly stupid...why don't you try talking to some of them and you'll see they're not all as dumb as you'd like to think...

Andrew Bougton

Reading Rod's work is a treat, but reading the online commentary a bit of a bring-down. I have spent hours relishing and laughing away. Ah, it lisfts the soul to see someone bash away at profound silliness. Then the silly people all come online and make profound analysis of flip remarks, trying to show that they can intellectually out-do a simply brilliant commentator - who's a great writer as well as a clear thinker - with pedantic, plodding drivel. No credit where due, no graceful respect for the talents of a clearly superior mind, just a pathetic, reactive: "So you think you're clever? Well, I'm cleverer. And nicer. You ... you ... bully you."

Dr. Mander

Um. Do you actually know any fat people? You know, as personal friends? Do you have any idea of what they actually eat, think, do, etc.?

I suspect not. Your sad, hateful, and ignorant commentary says it all.

addddddd

fattttttyyyyysss ruuuuuullllleeeeeeeeeee

Lottie Parry

I think obesity is different to alcoholism and drug addiction, to be fair. obviously the main difference is that people made the first step to take drugs in the first place.
I'm sure it's been pointed out before, but a little sensitivity could be useful, considering there are other reasons for obesity.. my sister has run 4 miles a day and eaten exactly what she is supposed to for 3 years and she's far bigger than me; I eat whatever I like and I am probably far unhealthier on the inside.
Another point, metabolism/ body shape etc aside, obesity can be affected by mental/ emotional problems. it is very easy to link anorexia/bulimia childhood problems, in fact 30% of ED sufferers experienced severe sexual abuse in early childhood. But could the same not apply for some overweight individuals? The ones who are not particularly lazy, but use eating as a coping mechanism? Should they not be given the same support as recovering alcoholics/ drug addicts/ anorexics, rather than mocked, bullied and teased until they are forced into a gym, at which point every time they crack and eat a chocolate bar they are told that they are weak and worthless?
one more point - kicking fat child is cruel. that child does not feed itself and who knows, maybe when it has control over its own life it will eat correctly, exercise adequately and lose weight! let not the child bear the mother's mistakes, at least until he/she has the opportunity to correct them :)

Frank

Brilliant. Sushi is not the only alternative. It is NOT expensive to eat home made low carb high veg content meals and fruit and go for long walks. I believe that most of obesity is self inflicted and self prepetuating and they should be ashamed of themselves.