Don’t mention the Afghan–Pakistan war

Hughey

For whatever reason we have our nose in Afghanistan's business, and noting that there will never be a satisfactory end result for the West, we are in another sovereign country.

Imagine some Arab army fighting and killing on the UK mainland for some reason, there'd be outrage and reprisal.

Oh yeah... that's what they feel about us as invaders in Afghanistan and why they're trying to get rid of us - it could be construed as reasonable.

David Short

"Pakistan, a country with an unstable government and nuclear weapons."

Whoops, that's us too!

Liberty Valence

Dear Me! An Afghan-Pakistani War is in the offing now - just when a nuclear-ambitious Iran is coming on the boil too!

London Calling

Pakistan, the continuous pregnant mother of Insurgents and corridor of death. The more troops we send into Afghanistan, the more a steady stream of trained fighters influx over the border from Pakistan into Afghanistan to fight the cause.

The route cause of Afghanistan’s instability is the insurgents from Pakistan, and all focus should have been priority from the offset of any planned invasion of our troops, border controls by Pakistan were weak because Pakistan is not in control and therefore without a wall of divide our troops and allies are doomed to face the onslaught of which they now face.

This is as quoted 'A Pakistan/Afghanistan War' and one we cannot win alone, and we should also be seriously concerned about Pakistan’s nuclear weapons should they fall into the wrong hands in the future, for when we pull back the curtain and expose the truth, Pakistan’s political instability would pose a threat to the world, and we are at present fighting the continuous circumference of that threat.

Dr Shahid Qureshi

US CHASING OSAMA IN FATA?

By Dr Shahid Qureshi

16th July 2008
The Frontier Post

Is there any man or woman in the Government of Pakistan who could stand up and tell United States and its allies that, ‘Osama does not exist any more’ as reportedly claimed by Benazir Bhutto. Zaradri led government including Musharaf are so weak, compromised and scared of the US that they are in hurry as some one said, “Visit US before it visits you’. Well if US want to visit FATA then ‘so be it. Some people say let Yankees have a feel because people are not Red Indians here. US must get out of the mess not drown in it?

Pakistan’s relations with the US should be ‘SOLID BUT NOT SLAVISH’. Many say, ‘US don’t like history lessons from British and do things differently, one can only pray for humanity’. One Afghan leader said, ‘there are thousands ways to enter Afghanistan but there is only one-way out and that is ‘defeat’. Be it today tomorrow or day after tomorrow. Sir Hilary Synot told a gathering at International Institute of Strategic Studies in London something like, ‘some one asked me do you know Afghan experts, I said, ‘well there are many but unfortunately they are all dead’. Those young 19th century British experts of Afghanistan and FATA left huge treasures of information, which might be lying, in the basements of Foreign and Commonwealth Office in London? But Americans don’t like history lessons or don’t like history at all?

If ex ISI informer Hamid Karzai thinks Pakistan is not a true friend of Afghanistan then he should take his 2.5 million Afghan refugees back to Afghanistan living in Pakistan for thirty years. Seal the Pak – Afghan border become a proper President. There seems to be an element of mistrust and suspicion from the US side perhaps the US and allies are listening more to the Indian military advisors than they should. Many say, ‘Hamid Karzai is running Afghanistan like a Kebab shop where Indian halal meat is served with American alcohol as Vodka was banned long time ago’.

In 2008 Osama Bin Laden seems is like Iraqi WMDs, which does not exist any more and every one has forgotten about them? It does sounds like movies in which bad guys place a dead body in some one’s house and then prosecute the whole family for murder. Search for Osama in freezing K2 Mountains is like searching an elephant in a dark room by a blind man. Especially when one knows he does not exist anymore? Osama is a ghost salesman of Arms dealers, a trump card to blackmail states. As reported CIA keep tab on the health of the world leaders by urine testing and definitely keep DNA and fingerprints especially when they go for official receptions and tours etc.

Keeping in view the reports about Osama’s severe kidney problems and dialysis requirements it is highly unlikely for him to survive for long time. Even with the kidney transplant survival rate of the patient is very low and time frame is short in normal circumstances keeping in view the use of rejection drugs and severely weak immune system? Unless one is kept in a sophisticated high class renal unit of a big hospital with latest medical equipment and guaranteed power supply. It is impossible to have that kind of facility anywhere in the whole region including border areas of Pakistan and K2 mountains. Many analysts believe Osama is no more. If he is alive he will be arrested or found just before US elections in 2008. Well he has been helping Bush by releasing messages at times whenever his ratings were down?

There is another report which Bruce Boyle wrote on 30th December 2007, “By the way, I heard this from a call-in on C-span, and have not directly checked this out, "that in an interview with a famous British Jewish journalist David Frost Benazir Bhutto said that Osama, ‘Bin Laden was assassinated at the end of 2002" and "claimed she knew who did it, when, and how," and suggested that the subsequent bin Laden videos and audio tapes (reportedly "released by Al Qaeda") are, in fact, "high tech constructs and slick patch jobs produced by a third party."

Every one knows that about the complete US intelligence failure on September 11, 2001 and who benefited out of those terrorists atrocities. Major beneficiary are Arms industry including a complete hold on huge job cuts at the Pentagon, which was due in September 2001. Criminals of September 11, 2001 incidents must be brought to justice in the court of law. Afghanistan was bombed and converted in rubble in search of one man created by the US to fight with the Soviets.

Interestingly when allies and US were sending arms to Afghans they were also sending payment invoices to the Saudis and Arab countries. It was not a bad deal at all, Afghans and US sponsored Muslim Mujahidin’s from all over the world were dying in Afghanistan to win the Cold War? Wars are also known to be good business and Americans are good at it.

In WWI 1914- 1918, according to available data 50,000 US soldiers lost their lives as compare to 500,000 British soldiers who were mostly from the colonies, France lost 1 million and Germany 1.2 millions. The estimated total allied costs were US $20 trillions + US $ 81 billions.

In 1913 just before the war started the total GDP of the US was US $39000 millions, which, by 1918 at the end of WWI rose up to US $770100 millions. In 1914 total value of US gold reserves was US $1526 millions; by 1918 the gold reserves valued were US $ 2873 millions.

Total expanses of WWII between September 1939 – August 1945 were US $925000 millions, United States US $335,000 millions, Germany US $272000 millions, Britain US $120,000 millions, Italy US $94000 millions, Japan US $56000 millions and France US $ 15000 millions.

It is important to remember that under the US law of ‘Land and Lease’, it provided loans to the war partners and received back with interests. US arms dealers become rich and richer. In 1937 US gold reserves were valued US $12390 millions and after three years of the war the gold reserves were valued US $24399 millions, the reason of this miraculous growth was because war partners including Britain had to pay in gold to pay off their debts.

If we look at the current rise in the oil and gold prices one can easily understand what is really going on. US companies have started signing with contracts with the Iraqis recently for more explorations not to mention Haliburtons moving its HQs in Dubai. It sounds like Iraqis and Afghanis are going to pay for the bombs dropped on them too?

(Dr Shahid Qureshi is senior award wining investigative journalist and writer on security, foreign policy, and terrorism based in London)

Dr Shahid Qureshi

Dear Mr Fraser, Many analysts agree that root cause of all the problems in Afghanistan and region is the US invasion without an exit strategy. Installation of Hamid Karzai who once reportedly paid £50,000 to become Taliban’s UN envoy has served his purpose an perhaps will be replaced by Zalmay Khalilzad? Its time for the invading forces to reflect on and look for a honourable exit. The foreign fighters coming into Afghanistan are reportedly coming form the former soviet side. Is it a pay back time for the Russians? Most arms and drug smuggling is happening on that side with the help of authorities? It seems you are too much sold to the Indian propaganda and have no idea about the consequences.

In an interview to Spiegel, a German magazine, the outgoing ISAF Commander McNeill confessed having inadequate trained forces to effectively counter terrorism in Afghanistan. Nato has only 47,000 soldiers instead of a required strength of 400,000 with a shortfall of 260,000 men. Nato is practically running on reserve, as very few units can be used in combat situation. While neighboring countries want peace in the region, manning a volatile country with only 47,000 Nato troops and practically no well-trained Afghan Army, the mission to bring peace to the region seems an uphill task, McNeill said. “

Where is NATO going to get these 400,000 troops and how much they are going to cost? Its time to come out of this blame game and review the WOT policy to save human lives and misery from all sides.

Verity

India has had nuclear Pakistan much on its mind for around 30 years. Britain has only just realised?

Mark Solomon

The fact remains that both Britain and Russia/USSR have intervened in and tried to police Afghanistan on many occasions in the last two centuries - and have been defeated EVERY time, often with disastrous losses. We simply have to learn from history and stop making the same mistakes, it is costing our soldiers' lives for nothing. With the fall of the Taleban we have no business being in Afghanistan whatsoever, we should get out now, while making it clear that any return to power by them would provoke another instant invasion like last time. That's all. If they want to have a civil war there, that's fine by us and has been their normal state of affairs throughout history, but there is no reason for Western soldiers to be in the middle of it as targets.

David Short

Most of the rest of the world exists quite happily without having troops on the ground in obscure, hot, dusty places.

In ten years' time, no one will care that we were there except the bereaved families of our soldiers.

Or perhaps the victims of car bombs and suicide bombs in Britain sparked by the outrage caused by our absurd presence over there.

Same with all little scrappy wars. They don't matter.

And it's costing a fortune to the taxpayer, for absolutely no good whatsoever.

Ask the Russians.

Or ask the 19th century British.

PT

Actually Dr Qureshi, Britain (not including colonials) lost about 750,000 in world war one. The French about 1.8 million. Quite a lot more Brits died than those from the colonies. I'm not sure where you got your figures from.

America did make a lot of money from it, partially from selling arms to Britain and France, and also from capturing markets. I don't think that the current war is big business for America as a whole, although individual companies are no doubt making a killing.

Kiffa

So Dr Qureshi, what would you do? If you were US/British leader, what policy would you follow?
Islam thinks it is being attacked by the West, and the West thinks it is attacked by Islam. It seems to me that certainly before 9/11 the West did nothing and never reacted to USS Cole/Nairobi/Dar es Salaam. So who is attacking who?
My secondary question is, why is Pakistan in such a mess, yet India is on the way to becoming a global player? You were all one country before 1945...

Hallvard

Once it was Cambodia, now it is Pakistan. Hot pursuit over the border seems the only solution now as then. However, Cambodia had no nuclear wepons, hardly any military forces at all. Still, we know that the result was dismal. Saying farewell to Pakistan as an ally and getting the only islamic atomic power as a sworn enemy is indeed opening interesting perspectives.

Nicholas Storey

The Great Question remains. The answer is still missing.

William

In Barbara Plett’s recent Newsnight report from FATA she interviews a local man whose home had recently been destroyed by Pakistani government troops; he laughs as he points to their continued and to him now futile presence on a nearby hillside. Fraser Nelson, you report an MOD source saying, ‘We have to start looking at this area as a whole battlefield, Pakistan included.’ I suppose the reader might ask, who’s “we”, or even ‘Who does he think he is?’-- a latter-day globalist Mahmud of Ghazni? And how can a NATO-led war for Pakistan prevent somebody, in any way and for whatever cause, from flying an aeroplane into a skyscraper half a world away? Is the idea to ‘deprive Al Quaeda of “a” base’? I thought Al Quaeda means/is “the” base.

The above comments are all sensible. Let’s get out! Dr Shahid Qureshi asks where are they going to get 400,000 men trained to fight in this ‘battlefield’ and far beyond (even to K2, never mind the two Hyderabads)? A Wiki check informs one that the actual FATA are a little bigger (on a road map) than Wales, but the Pashtun people live over much of Pakistan (including Baluchistan) and Afghanistan (including Helmand), and number at least 42 million, in very mountainous areas. They are heroes in Pakistan for winning half of Kashmir for the Muslim state in 1947. Dr Qureshi also asks will Zalmay Khalilzad replace Hamid Karzai? I hadn’t realized that they are themselves both Pashtuns from Afghanistan. Perhaps we (especially the British who should know better) should listen to them (their elders?) and the Pakistanis and Indians not NATO force commanders and western journalists (and still less western politicians with their progresses: Obama?) what their hopes and goals are for their future. I look forward to reading further informed and realistic input in the Spectator.

JW, Leeds.

I sent an email once to The Times which went along the lines of;

The Taleban get 50 mill for their smack....

ok, why not give them 60 mill for it- and then use it for medicine or just burn it.

No 'Brown' on British streets.

Promote a programme of crop production through paying them absolutely loads more for that than they would do for the poppies.

*Whisper* (but don't tell them it's us doing it!)

Do that and why not target the people who;

a. buy their Class A product
b. Supply them their weapons

Try to not blow them up as much- and this is very important;

-get the rest of the International W****** out there to pull their weight instead of doing sweet FA and leaving it all to us, which could help.

British lads and lasses are up against it big time- actually whilst we're reading this.

It needs sorting... this as my opinion only.

JK

Maybe the lack of Pak's progress like the rest of the Muslim world should be attributed to the unrepresentative elites (in Pak's case 22 families) that were imposed, western educated and between them controlling over 80% of the economy and the military... to date all they have done is squabble between themselves and rob the country of billions... the Bhutto family being notorious for this.

alexander

...a steady stream of trained fighters over the border to fight the cause...
All this military activity in Pakistan by Al-Qued...Taliban, like indoctrination madrasses, training camps, armaments, the whole structure costs a mint of money. Who are the financiers.

Riaz Ahmad

If the British Government is so good at finding the causes, then it should put its money where its mouth is. The British army should be fighting the taliban when they cross the border from Pakistan. The truth is that it is beyond the capability of Nato and USA combined, there are one million armed tribesmen, an endless supply of battle hardened fighters, it is easier to blame Pakistan instead. Pakistan is luke warm just like Nato countries, Why should the Pakistan army lose the lives of its soldiers to assist the imperial wars. Why should Pakistan lose the lives of its citizens through by inviting terrorist attacks for the sake of thankless west, noting but friend in the hour of need.The west started the war, not Pakistan.

Vicky

I want to say to Pakistanis stay at home with your families where you are safe. Don't believe what they say. Jihad is a load of crap. They use it to brainwash people so they get free soldiers to fight there wars. We also need to spread this message amongst our own Muslim population to counter act people like Abu Hamza.

Chris Andersen

Dr. Shahid Qureshi is full of crap. Hollow, but nuclear armed, Pakistan festers like a boil, and just like a boil only gets more painful to deal with over time. We can accept the pain now, or we can continue to wring our hands and listen to the invincibility crap from the likes of Qureshi, and feel far greater pain later. Looks like both Obama and McCain have figured that one out.

The West, for all its recent pusillaminity, is still a thousand times stronger than Pakistan and wiil prevail, though not without cost, if it strikes decisively. Do you want to pay now? Or do you want to pay more, perhaps much more, later?

dayana

the same will happen to the americans what happened to the british when only one soldier returned that to on a donkey during the great game and to the russians in the cold war. you cant tame these people they sleep with the sound of gunshots. its better that they leave now otherwise i wonder whether there are any spare donkey in Afghasnistan. The problem with west is that they havwent been able to understand the way these people think.So best of Luck, as for attacking Pakistan you couldnt handle Iraq you havent been able to stabilize Afghanistan where do you think from.

HSM

Lot of comments above reflect defeatist attitudes. If Taleban is not checked they will spread in the region like cancer imposing their laws of dark ages and causing instability in the region. The west and it's allies should continue to fight and defeat these terrorists. If Pakistan wants to survive as a state it has no option but to cooperate with the West or face disintegration.

Faisal

These are laughable excuses unfortunately. Cant control Iraq? - its iran's fault. Cant control Afghanistan - its Pakistan's fault. Recycled poor analysis doesnt make for an intelligent article. Maybe the bigger problem in Afghanistan is that its government cant even extend its writ beyond the green zone. All this silly talk of chasing bad guys in Pakistan..the question is, do you have the troops that have the valor to fight in the field against Pakistan. Remember, there will be no air force to pave the way...Pakistan has an airforce as well....its not like fighting against Iraq. No matter how sophisiticated the excuses, it boils down to this Hamid Karzai is a modern day Najibullah and the Americans and British are the new Soviets.

Quest

Fraser Nelson, "political columnist for the News of the World" really sums up this article.
To cheer lead for an expansion of the War by invading Nuclear armed Pakistan is irresponsible.
The British and the Soviets never managed to conquer Afghanistan, neither will the Americans. Bring home our troops now, end this slaughter.