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Sunday 27 May 2012

Is there a link between religion and worrying?

Tuesday, 13th January 2009

"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life." This is what the theologically-minded buses are saying. Let's pass over the weird first sentence and look at the second. Most religious reactions to this slogan have objected, with some indignation, to the assumed link between religion and worrying, and atheism and enjoyment. How dare you suggest that we believers are nervy, anxious, joyless types? We're jolly relaxed, you know – you should see us on the weekend in our zany knitwear!

I think this is the wrong riposte. It makes more theologically sense to accept the atheists' claim that they're cooler than us, more laid-back. Yes, we religious types are prone to take life quite seriously, and to get all het-up about stuff.

When God revealed himself to Noah he said the very opposite of 'Stop worrying and enjoy your life'. He said, 'Stop enjoying yourself and start worrying, and, in fact, build a big boat'. What he said to Abraham was not along the lines of 'Easy, Abe.' In fact according to the scriptures he told no major patriarch or prophet to chill out and have a good time. He told Moses that he had rather a lot of work to do (Moses understandably suggested that he try using someone else, but God refused). This trend continues with the prophets: Amos, for example, was a restless, disaffected type, angry that people were boozing and feasting while the poor suffered. Isaiah and Jeremiah kept bothering people with a highly irritating vision of perfection. And the Psalmist – oh dear. Maybe Prozac would have helped.

Jesus was in some ways pretty chilled out. In fact he told his followers not to worry about material things. But he also told them to fear Satan, to strive for perfection, and to give up everything for the sake of this vision of the kingdom of God. Not very laid back. And, like the prophets, he signally failed to enjoy his life in the way that the atheists seem to recommend. He could have been a doubting donnish rabbi, full of ecumenical diplomacy, instead of a fatally bold troublemaker.

So the atheists have a point: God is keener on unsettling his chosen than relaxing them. The available evidence suggests that he is not very interested in our ability to take it easy.

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Praguetory

January 13th, 2009 11:53am Report this comment

Nice piece. I don't think any religions argue that followers should fail to reflect on the world around them or their own behaviour. This campaign almost urges us to live for a narrow self-interest.

But far from being a counsel of despair, the Christian message is one of God's mercy where although we are all sinners, with repentance we can all be saved.

Moxon

January 13th, 2009 12:02pm Report this comment

It's very refreshing to have a theolgoical comment on the Coffee House. Makes a change from poring over the latest perturbations in the Brown-Cameron raitngs. So, good on the aptly named Theo.

But both the bus-message and Theo's theological riposte seem to beg the question - worrying about WHAT?

Andrew Forbes

January 13th, 2009 12:04pm Report this comment

Au contraire. I'm a Christian and the wonderful gift of being able to park my all worries with God, and have confidence that God's plan for us all is wonderful; the gift of eternal life in paradise awaits. This gift is available to all.

However, if I weren't religious, then this world is all there is, and worse, this world is all there'll be for our children. That's truly something to worry about. I don't think I'd sleep at night if I weren't a Christian.

Forlornehope

January 13th, 2009 12:12pm Report this comment

Reading the comments on CiF the atheists themselves seem to be a rather intense, intolerant, uptight bunch.

Ken

January 13th, 2009 12:21pm Report this comment

It's the word "probably" that has started me worrying...

Austin Barry

January 13th, 2009 12:41pm Report this comment

Paradoxically, as an atheist, I worry a lot about religion - principally Islam.

Reg Varney

January 13th, 2009 12:43pm Report this comment

I seem to recall Our Lord telling Martha to mellow out when she was clattering around with the tea set.

Athanasius (of Suffering World)

January 13th, 2009 1:06pm Report this comment

Slightly missing the point, I'm afraid. The worrying you refer to in Scripture stems ultimately from an absence of God, a wilful self-separation from Him. This is different from righteous anger at immorality, or desire for God, which enables us to "stay awake": not awake out of worry, but spiritually awake, expectant.

Being a Christian is not about being 'chilled out'; rather it is having the confidence to know that we can transcend our very real human anxieties. The worries of the world do not go away, but are made subservient to the real purpose of life.

On the whole, Christians do tend to be a happier bunch as a result.

Jobie

January 13th, 2009 1:10pm Report this comment

Aled Jones, on his Radio 2 programme, read a reader's letter: "Christians are kind to others so they will be rewarded in heaven. Atheists are kind to others because it is the right thing to do". Says it all really!

Philip Collinson

January 13th, 2009 1:40pm Report this comment

Christians who believe the Bible experience a stability and serenity in life that eludes the world. They find in the Lord a Rock who will never let them down (Psalm 62 verse 2). Is there anything else in life that people can depend upon with utmost confidence? Even "As safe as the bank of England" is no longer an absolutely true statement.

Wily Trout

January 13th, 2009 1:50pm Report this comment

Surely the worrying was about whether or not we were going to heaven? So now we've been told we're (probably) not, we can abandon all hope. That's a relief.

Andrew Forbes

January 13th, 2009 1:59pm Report this comment

Not entirely true, Jobie. Romans 6:23 (and a great many other places) states "the gift of God is eternal life". Heaven is a gift from a loving God, not a reward. We don't do good deeds for a reward, we do them partly because it is right, and partly out of gratitude and love of the who has given us His promise. That's why we don't have to worry. It's an unimaginably generous gift.

David Bouvier

January 13th, 2009 2:56pm Report this comment

Moxon - rats; you beat me to the "Theo" observation...

Forlonehope - my issue with your comment starts with "on CiF"...

Ken - "probably" was required by the ASA I believe...

Philip - Does "Christians who believe in the Bible" seek to distinguish you from Christians who don't?

Chris in UK

January 13th, 2009 3:01pm Report this comment

Athanasius - I find that many Christians seem unhappy unless I believe what they believe. This seems to worry them a lot. Some folk could say that they are genuinely concerned for the welfare of my eternal soul - others might venture that there is some battling against their own doubts going on as Christians try to convince others.

Personally I follow a non-theistic theravadan Buddhist path - and would sum it up by saying that we believe in not making a problem out of anything.

JONNY

January 13th, 2009 3:12pm Report this comment

'Stop worrying and enjoy your life' is just the sort of patronising condescending thing one might expect to drop from Prof Dawkins' prim little lips.

No business of yours ducky. If I want to be miserable I bloody well will be.

James Eaglet

January 13th, 2009 3:37pm Report this comment

Guys, I'm worried. Are you sure that the poster is refering to the Judeo-Christian God or perhaps one of the other gods? It's all so confusing....

HarryH

January 13th, 2009 4:16pm Report this comment

How can anyone read the Old Testament and not worry about meeting their maker?

HarryH

January 13th, 2009 4:17pm Report this comment

How can anyone read the Old Testament and not worry about meeting their maker?

dilys

January 13th, 2009 5:44pm Report this comment

Jobie
January 13th, 2009 1:10pm
Aled Jones, on his Radio 2 programme, read a reader's letter: "Christians are kind to others so they will be rewarded in heaven. Atheists are kind to others because it is the right thing to do". Says it all really!

Not so, Jobie.
A Christian will always try to be kind to others. Aetheists may, or may not, bother.

Max Kaye

January 13th, 2009 6:08pm Report this comment

I'm with you, Austin Barry.

THX1138

January 13th, 2009 6:40pm Report this comment

The imaginary friend bother's at the Church of England don't seem sure that their God exists either.

The strap line for the Alpha Course their cod philosophy, explore the meaning of life BS is

"If God did exist what would you ask?"

They don't seem exactly sure do they! Not so far away from "There's probably no God".

Athanasius (of Suffering World)

January 13th, 2009 7:34pm Report this comment

Re: Chris in UK

I cannot, of course, speak for all Christians, but I do think that you are making the fundamental error of confusing 'unhappiness' for oneself and 'unhappiness' in the form of sadness that others have failed to hear the Word of God.

Of the second kind, I think most Christians would happily accept to be accused - and not want it any other way. Paradoxically, this kind of 'worrying' only actually stems from a complete contentment that is only possible in the fullness of God's love.

A prominent atheist entertainer (whose name I now forget) summed it up perfectly when he was approached by a proselytizing Christian after a show: he asked, how much would you have to hate someone to know that salvation exists yet not to tell them about it?

'Worrying' about other people's souls is, in other words, a supreme kind of love for them and is, by extension, something good. In reality it is not worrying in the usual conception at all.

I would think that Truth and salvation are probably worth making a big deal out of. Yes, the search for it will often be difficult and involve doubt (which surely some Christians will deal with in an unfortunate and self-imposing way)and will nearly always be problematic since it challenges so much of what we think we know. But we can always have the confidence of God's grace to fall back on.

Commondog

January 13th, 2009 7:57pm Report this comment

THX don't you think they might be approaching it from the starting point of the typical mindset of the intended reader?

Basic communication skills - Level One, week one.

(You might also want to take a look at your use of apostrophes)

Commondog

January 13th, 2009 8:03pm Report this comment

Forlornehope, you have the atheist deeked perfectly. It's the same on any thread which brings together the atheist and the believer: the atheist lobby invariably gets in a right old ill-tempered thromby.

BTW, CiF? Is that pronounced 'siph'?

Jobie

January 13th, 2009 8:04pm Report this comment

dilys: How does being anti-gay (not you personally, but especially in the US) in the name of God/the bible square with your statement that "A Christian will always try to be kind to others"?

Ruairidh

January 13th, 2009 8:11pm Report this comment

Minor point but the equivocation in the first sentence of the bus-ad is more to do with not following foul of advertising standards rather than a reflection of a lack of conviction about the statement. Being more definite would invite a successful challenge of ‘prove it’ as it is there is still going to be a challenge from some Christian lobby group. They should know from the experience of Carlsberg that stick ‘probably’ in and you say almost anything.

Verity

January 13th, 2009 9:39pm Report this comment

Jobie - What do you mean by "anti-gay"? That is like saying people are "anti- clouds". Or anti-dogs. Most people are not stupid, especially if they don't vote Labour.

Expliquez, s'il vous plait. When you say "anti gay", do you mean "anti gay rights"? And if so, what gay rights do these notional people with whose thoughts you are so familiar feel negative about?

You write "especially in the US". How long have you spent in the United States, Jobie? Which part?

You seem to be a muddled thinker and I'm wondering how you are managing to plough your way through the mainly literate postings on this site.

And why ...

THX1138

January 13th, 2009 9:58pm Report this comment

Commondog Thanks for putting me right on my punctuation I do struggle.

Not sure you're right about the messaging though.

Who is the intended reader?

If it's only for the converted imaginary friend botherer
why add the doubt bit, "If God did exist"

Shouldn't it have read.

What do you want to ask God?

THX1138

January 13th, 2009 10:21pm Report this comment

Religion - Marcus Brigstocke

http://tinyurl.com/ypd7ma

Very funny.

Chris in UK

January 14th, 2009 12:39pm Report this comment

Athanasius,

The crux of the discussion for me is the difference between believing and knowing. You quote the atheist entertainer (could it be Bill Hicks?) as mentioning 'knowing that salvation exists'.

My contention is that no-one can know that, though they may believe it.

To try then to get others to do so seems to smack at least a little of attempting to recruit others in order to convince oneself.

Thanks to those who are concerned for the souls of others - it's kindness of a sort - just wishing us all well would suffice.

BTW - I find the Pauline interpretation of Christ's ministry frightening, disturbing, brutal, even nightmarish. I certainly don't find that view of what the cosmos has behind it to be reassuring or inspiring. The idea of a human sacrifice to appease a deity is to my way of thinking, primitive and backward.
If I really thought it were so - I think I might well be worried.

Fergus Pickering

January 14th, 2009 6:40pm Report this comment

But Jobie, atheists aren't kind to others. They're nasty people who want others to be as bloody miserable as they are. It comes from reading TOO MANY books. according to Hilaire Belloc. The last NICE atheist I can call to mind was David Hume. Himmler was an atheist, wasn't he? Liitlle four-eyed shrimp= bloody typical!

Chris in UK

January 15th, 2009 11:37am Report this comment

Fergus - you might find that Himmler was not an atheist as you state - he was an Odinist. It was Himmler who attempted to define a kind of Nazi spirituality linked to race and blood - hence his sending of a team to Tibet in the 30s to try to find evidence of the Aryans. He saw Aryan culture as carried on by the Vikings among others - hence the adoption of the runic double 'S' lighting emblem for the SS.

My experience has been that all of those who think membership of a particular spiritual group, tradition or community makes them 'nice' people are not nearly so nice as they think they are.

EGH

January 17th, 2009 3:22am Report this comment

From the atheists I've seen, their way of 'enjoying' life is materialist by definition and, therefore, either suicidal or illegal! You know, devotion to smoking; drinking; drugging; catching VD; getting silly girls pregnant; breaking up marriages; slandering people; ruining the careers of believers; cheating relations out of their inheritances; cheating a whole culture out of its heritage, etc.

In other words, the 'enjoyment' is itself short-lived, one-sided, and carries with it God-given consequences! Rather like those Labour and the euSSR have just landed us in.

So THE ATHEISTS AND THE ADVERTISERS SHOULD be worrying - even in their own materialist and earthbound terms. Of course, believers sometimes fall by the wayside and commit the same sins - but they are more inclined to see the hand of God behind the repercussions and to try to straighten out their ways.

Anyway, whoever is responsible for this untimely, immature, advertising? And what about PC? Does that say it's OK to offend believers - just don't offend Muslims and other foreigners?

The whole thing is too ignorant and crass. I'll certainly walk rather than use that bus company!
Time to pray and think will then be a bonus.

Anglica

January 17th, 2009 4:13am Report this comment

Chris on the 14th @ 12:39. I disagree with just about everything you say. However, your take on 'human sacrifice' raises an issue that I also have found troubling. I agree - it is primitive and backward; but human beings never cease to be so, and that is because they choose to be so. Otherwise all these misguided children wouldn't be running around seeking vengeance ... for what? To set each one of themselves up as Judge, Jury, and Executioner? For the sheer pleasure of killing?

I'm concluding, then, that human 'Death' means something to our benighted species that God wants us to get beyond! BUT HE DOES NOT DEMAND HUMAN SACRIFICE OF US.

Instead, He demonstrated His knowledge of our limited perception of Love - He sacrificed His Son in a way that 'humanity' would understand. But His Son also taught that the purpose of the sacrifice was Redemption (another human concept) of mankind from the Death that Adam and Eve (primitive and backward, indeed) had brought upon us. Christian ceremony and belief consequently move on from the primitive, and render human sacrifice symbolically. This serves as a reminder that God understands us, though we should admit that we are incapable of understanding Him (we can't even understand each other!). He leaves us the choice of accepting or refusing His gift of redemption.

I don't expect that means a thing to you - but it's the best I can do. Maybe Theo can help us both?

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