Praying for patients

Chuck Unsworth

Yes, evangelists (of all denominations) are truly terrifying in their monocular view of the world and their god(s).

Simon

It is amazing how many theists omitted the salient details of this story.

The use of the prayer card is, perhaps, the key to understanding why action was taken.

I have argued elsewhere that religion should be kept out of the professions and this reinforces why mixing caring with evangelical behaviour is wrong.

If you want to pray for your patient - do so privately. Do not try to force your world view on them.

A patient is a vulnerable individual who should not be exploited.

Pray in private. Work in public.

Quite straightforward, I would have thought

Doug

Of course she can do what ever she wants in the privacy of her own thoughts. But it is very easy to imagine complaints about this from people of all religions and none. As a simple, no nonsense policy medical staff should simply inform patients of the availability of a chaplain and other religious facilities.

CS

The first sensible comment I've heard on this issue.

chrisp

On balance I might agree that the action was "misguided". However the "harsh" punishment contrasts fantastically with the indulgence offered to a venal political class and the professional vulgarians of the media: the deeper meaning of this affair is that in Britain "harsh" punishment is reserved for the weak.

John MacLeod

This prayer card information is certainly an important detail - if it is true. What is your source for the assertion information that those handed out by Nurse Petrie - not, you might have made clearer, on this occasion -'required the patient to subscribe to this particular view of Christianity by confessing that they were sinners, thanking Jesus for dying to save them, and asking Him to come into their life'? If this can be confirmed then it was certainly most unprofessional.

Dixon

Whilst I endorse the position taken on the political aspect of this case ( the suppression of indiginous culture in Britain today ) it is worth bearing in mind the medical aspect.

The Harvard Medica;l Journal not long ago published a paper on some sound and straightforward research on the effect of prayer upon patients. Between those who were not prayed for and those who were prayed for but not to their knowledge there was no difference in the outcome of treatment. However, there was found to be a a poorer prognosis among those patients who were prayed for and knew it.

In other words, telling a patient that you are going to pray for them is actually liable to damage their chances of recovery.

When you think about it, it also seems like "common sense". For example, a friend of mine reports that her father had been recovering well from cancer...until a priest showed up, wherupon he swiftly deterioted and died. Not surprisingly, given that his hope could only be diminished by the implications of the hospital summoning a priest.

Neil Turner

Absolute tosh.
You soon forget that without the Christian faith we would have no hospitals and no nurses.
I believe that the root cause problem to the UK's ills is NewLabs crimimalisation of Christianity.

Hugh

As I understood it, the prayer card was a different occasion, and prompted a warning at the time. In this instance, she was disciplined only for offering to pray - at least that's what the story you linked to and others I've read suggest. By your reasoning, therefore, she should not have been suspended.

Tom

I am sure that praying will soon be criminalised, but it will be perfectly acceptable to "keep someone in your thoughts n' prayers".

EC

"I hope Nurse Petrie will continue to pray for her patients. But that is all she should do."

I'd rather nurses washed their hands occasionally. Come to think of it, while they were near running water they could always put the kettle on a make a nice cup of tea. The patients would really appreciate that!

Oh, and how about NOT leaving patients in bed for hours on end to piss and shit themselves.

Susan Hill

CLARIFICATION

See below,extracted from the Daily Mail.

''One of the prayer cards Caroline handed out
Underneath is a brief prayer which reads: 'I am sorry for what I have done wrong in my life and I ask for forgiveness. Thank you for Dying on the Cross for me to set me free from my sins. Please come into my life and fill me with your Holy Spirit and be with me forever. Thank you Lord Jesus. Amen.'
Caroline, who has given out more than 50 of the cards on her rounds, recalls that the idea was not for patients to recite the prayer in front of her but, if they wished, say it alone when they had gathered their thoughts. If they just threw them in the bin, she did not mind. '
I gather since writing the Blog that Nurse Petrie was reprimanded on a previous occasion for handing out the cards and required to undertake a course of 'Equality and Diversity Training.' But she again asked a patient if she wanted to be prayed for and the patient said 'No' and reported the incident to the Ward Sister. Nurse Petrie was then suspended but has now been re-instated.

Paul

'She asked if she could pray and handed out a prayer card for the patients to use.'

As a Catholic I would not be in the least bit offended by this approach from a member of another denomination.

I would at least know that the nurse cared about me and wasn't just going through the motions.

There is another aspect of this case that I find disturbing. This is the assumption that the patient is some kind of victim.

If she did not like the manner of the nurse's approach then couldn't she have simply said so?

I am 'only' 49 but sometimes I feel that I come from a bygone age when adults were imbued with common sense.

Matthew Baldwin

Are these evangelical Christians really so offensive? I would have thought that anyone of any denomination who called himself a Christian would quite naturally agree he was a sinner, is eternally grateful Jesus died to save him and continually welcomes him into his life. Or perhaps Christianity is not what it once was and has abolished sin and the need for redemption.

Charlie

Surely someone in authority should have had a quiet off the record chat. This is a typical example of lack of common sense by managers. I am sure a matron who had run a major teaching hospital during the Blitz would have been able to deal with the situation with less fuss. The problem is that most managers appear to have never had to run a unit for prolonged periods of extreme danger and stress.

biggestaspidistra

What harm did Nurse Petri do? Probably, in her life she's done a great deal of good.

It appears her crime for which she must be punished is against equality and diversity.
Apparently a child in Crediton primary school fell foul of the same law of equality and diversity by talking about Jesus at school, and her mother is to be punished for discussing the matter with her church, according to the Telegraph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/4590870/Primary-school-receptionist-facing-sack-after-daughter-talks-about-Jesus-to-classmate.html

I am so deeply ashamed of my government and this new fascism. How meekly it has been accepted by journalists.

Barbara

I am a religious Jew. I had both of my children in a Catholic hospital, and my rooms had crucifixes on their walls. A nun who was the chaplain came to visit me and admire my babies.

No one asked me to convert, in fact, they were extremely sensitive in every possible way. The second time both the baby and I nearly died, and quite honestly, I never inquired as to the religion(s) of those many people who cared for and about us. I was aware that people were praying for both of us, and since I am quite sure that they were praying to the same God, by whatever name they used, I was grateful for it.

If the chaplain, for example, had handed me a prayer card, I would have thanked her and taken it, understanding that she only meant well. Over the years, many well-meaning people have tried to convert me to their religion(s), but I am sure enough of my own that I can appreciate their intent.

Some people are unpleasantly persistent, and one must sometimes be firm with them, but most people take no for an answer. I would much rather have someone kindly offer to pray for me than to be called names, or threatened with being sent to an oven, both of which have occurred on British streets recently.

EC

biggestapidistra: "I am so deeply ashamed of my government and this new fascism. How meekly it has been accepted by journalists."

Shame, yes. Anger, yes. It's a culture war and we are losing it.

At the moment I'm afraid there is no hope of recovery because, of the two main opposition parties, one is as equally infected our gangrenous government and the other is too weak to resist the infection.

And the "Mainstream Media are fiddling while Rome burns" - probably snorting coke - when there noses aren't firmly planted elsewhere!

Ray

The over-reaction to Nurse Petrie is symbolic of the general intolerance of politically-correct society towards one particular religion.

This blatant hypocrisy is manifest in a Government that moves swiftly to keep out Geert Willders in case he might offend Muslims, but which has proved singularly incapable of keeping out or deporting Muslim fanatics who consistently offend the rest of us.

Susan Hill

Dixon. You have a point. A retired GP friend tells me he was always very very wary of mentioning sendng for a clergyman and only ever did so if he was certain the patient/family concerned would want it because they were regular churchgoers. The very mention of the priest made people fear the worst at least some of the time. But then, I have been at death`s door twice in hospital, and asked if I wanted to see the Chaplain, who came. And here I still am.
It is probably not a good idea to ask if a patient has made a Will either ( and hand out a card with the name of good solicitor ).
@biggestaspidestra.
The Crediton story is another matter and a damned disgrace, just as is the case of the foster mother debarred frm further fostering because one of the children she looked after, a Muslim, became a Christian, of her own free will. It is undoubtedly true that a Christian young woman becoming a Muslim would cause not an eyebrow raised.

Ian C

Is it a crime to pray that this madness will just go to hell?

EC

More anecdotal evidence regarding priests at the bedside. I have a friend who has had "The Last Rites" said over them three times now! The last time was about two years ago. Thankfully, although not in a robust condition, my friend doesn't show any signs of going anywhere soon. It's all about the will to live.

Rex Mottram

@Dixon, Susan Hill: What a terribly materialist view you two subscribe to. Prayer, as my old housemaster used to tell us, is not a shopping list. Prayer should not be an attempt to bend God's will to our own. So why assume the purpose of prayer is to promote physical recovery? Many Christians' prayers would be for a good death rather than the prolonging of life. The fact that subjects who knew they were prayed for deteriorated physically could equally be the result of such a good death - reconciliation with God, contrition, acceptance of grace.

egh

Rex Mottram - a voice of sanity.
Thank you.

I agree with all who believe that the strengthening of anti-Christianity in the British media is part of the campaign for cultural invasion. I think Anti-Christ is showing his iron boots a little impatiently, though. His arrogance is getting the upper foot - and he's counting his successes before they've hatched! [I've started making a hidden sign of the cross - thumb on forehead - whenever I meet one of his henchmen].

Archbishop Cranmer's communicants have some great comments on all these cases also at: http://www.archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com

biggestaspidistra

I don't believe it is a different matter. Sadly we can't pick and choose between evils. Each is an offence against 'equality and diversity'. All this whilst the animals have very clearly taken over the farm.

Verity

Susan Hill, although I broadly agree with you and with people who say that offering to pray for a patient might raise the fear that the nurse knows something about their condition tht they don't know, the patient Nurse Petrie offered to pray for did not report her.

She merely mentioned the incident, in passing, to another patient. People have nothing to talk about in hospital and will chat about anything. The other patient mentioned it to a nurse, and the nurse bustled off officiously to report Nurse Petrie. The patient herself, despite not availing herself of it, seems to have taken the offer kindly.

Alan

If it is allowed where will it end? Voodoo rituals and animal sacrifice in the ward.

RC

It's part of the social conditioning of the people. The end goal is to completely remove Christianity by penalizing it.

Some what similar attacks on freedoms includes arms where legislation after legislation makes arm ownership burdensome. Or the new cap and trade where the indirect goal is to force people to adopt green technology because the price hikes in energy due to carbon emission penalties.

A private business would not do this to protected minorities likes gays and transsexuals.

Wilhelm

Alan sweetheart

Dont be silly, son.

Christina

Alan - yes, don't be silly. Your pagan world advanced beyond mere animal sacrifice long ago.

Many of our wards already practice human sacrifice to the god of socio-economics.

The associated rituals include PC, a mumbo-jumbo that provides an invisibility cloak for against Truth. It's well suited to obeah.

Andreas

This could only have happened with a Christian nurse. Imagine a muslim (or any faith) being suspended for offering prayers for the sick? The PC-mob would burn tires in the streets...