Err...Cultural violence?

Senorviva

"I bet atheists’ kids are not so freethinking as to question atheism"

I may be going out on a limb here, but I suspect many atheists feel no need to have any discusion about the possibility of a god with their children.

Peter Roberts

Senorviva - not if you judge the sheer incoherence and numbers of comments on CiF Belief.

Kittler

The religious are also Atheists, about other peoples Gods.

Fergus Pickering

No, Kittler. An atheist is someone who believes there is no god. Someone who believes in a multiplicity of gods is a polytheist.

Seacole

Fergus, so Kittler was in the right then?

David Pollock

Theo Hobson's comment is sadly unthinking.

True, Humanist parents by and large do not bring their children up as humanists but as kids with enquiring minds, able (we hope) to keep open big questions like religion or belief (lifestance) until they are mature enough to decide for themselves. Most religious parents deliberately do the opposite.

But what is far worse - and the target of the adverts - is that the state should label children with their parents' beliefs and assign about 1 in 3 of them to religious schools, some of which are highly segregated and divisive.

As the ads say, if it is crazy to call a child a Marxist because his parents are Marxists, isn't it just as crazy to label the child Catholic or Hindu?

Aaron

Seacole, are you illiterate?

Seacole

Aaron, quite.

I do not think you appreciated the finer subtlety of Kittler's point.

This is no time for pedantic literalists such as you and Fergus.

Yow Min Lye

David Pollock - Contrary to what you assert, most Christians also bring their children up to have 'enquiring minds' - not least because we know ourselves that a true relationship with Christ can only be experienced personally.

Of my own two daughters, both accompanied me to church when they were young because they enjoyed the Sunday school and youth activities. One made a commitment to Christ in her teens, fell away after she left school and discovered both boys and R&B music, but now - in her twenties - is rediscovering her Saviour anew.

My other daughter has always been more sceptical and non-committal. I continue to pray that God will reveal Himself to her more fully in His own good time. However, the ultimate decisions about what she believes remain hers and hers alone.

Isn't that as it should be?

Fergus Pickering

I can't believe that a man who can't punctuate can make a subtle point at all. But go on, Seacole, explain it to me. I am indeed a pedant. I like punctuation. It makes for clarity of expression. And I am a literalist too. I like people to say what they mean. But I don't think Kittler knows what he means. And perhaps that is because he doesn't mean anything, though he may suppose he does. But alas, he is in error.

hadrian

It is sheer balderdash to imply unbelieveing parents bring their children up with 'open, enquiring minds' pefectly free to make up their own minds on the big issues whilst religious parents 'indoctrinate' their kids to be unthinking followers. The one ultra consistent 'humanistic' parent I know absolutely refused to allow her young daughter to attend church and even now makes it clear to the girl how angry it makes her that her daughter has chosen to believe in God. Christian parents know perfectly well that though their children must be reared within the values of the Faith, 'in the nurture and adonition of the Lord',nevertheless they must come to a personal persausion and conviction that the Gospel is true. It is called 'regeneration' or being born again of the Spirit of God who fosters and requires intelligent assent. The atheist parent just as sedulously and jealously seeks to instil a set of values as any believer. Their supposed superior 'neutrality' is a farcical delusion at best disingenuous at worst.

Matt

Sort of makes one long for the tranquility of Shaw vs. Chesterton.

Matt

But seriously...

“Parents who are earnest and conscious of their educative duties, have a primary right to the education of the children God has given them in the spirit of their Faith, and according to its prescriptions. Laws and measures which in school questions fail to respect this freedom of the parents go against natural law, and are immoral.”

An excerpt from MIT BRENNENDER SORGE, ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XI ON THE CHURCH AND THE GERMAN REICH MARCH 14, 1937

Martin Turnbull

Has the idea of allowing children to choose their own religion, been run past the muslims? If so, what was the result?