Knox the symbol

Austin Barry

"The acts are evil, the people are redeemable."

No, sociopaths (and I'm not asserting that Knox is one) are irredeemable - it's a chemical thing.

Fergus Pickering

Sory to state the bleeding obvious, but lots of f*cking has always been thought OK in a male (say Robert Burns or Kingsley Amis) but not OK in a female - a slag, a nympho etc etc. And, to a great extent, things are still that way.

hadrian

Once again, Theo, you are off beam from Biblical theology if you dislike calling an unrepentant murderer 'evil'. The Lord in the Psalms does not hesitate to warn he 'is angry with THE WICKED every day.' Of course even a murderer can be redeemed but they still should face the death penalty and if they do not repent they most certainly are evil.

John Lea

Hi Theo. I'm just starting to get into Roth's novels. Any you can recommend?

Yam Yam

"The fact is that it’s amazingly difficult to object to the harmful smut that surrounds us without sounding like a killjoy reactionary."

That's because the Gramscian left and their fellow travellers have conditioned anyone who'll listen into believing that people who object to our society being bombarded with trivialised and objectivised sex are 'killjoy reactionaries'.

crimstudent

In response to the commment that socipaths are irredeemable, as a person who is both a criminologist and a Christian, I would have to disagree.

Sociopathy is indeed a very difficult condition to treat, but if we go by biblical history, Saul from Tarsus could certainly be classified as a sociopath and he was changed through the grace of God.

True sociopathy is relatively rare (and almost without exception only diagnosed in males) but the Bible is clear that God can change anyone. And, if you believe God could change the apostle Paul, you have to believe he can change others like Paul as well.

Avudale

It's clear to even the most cursory observer that Knox is a victim of Italian "justice".

David Bouvier

Avudale - it is never clear to anyone who has only paid cursory attention to media coverage of a trial whether justice has or has not been done. How could it be otherwise.

Sam Gisoad

"I therefore nominate Purves as a new sort of Mary Whitehouse"

I do hope not. I've always rather liked Purves, and that would be a terrible thing for her to turn into.

It's no skin off my nose that Purves dislikes smut. I, personally, find smut unannoying, especially compared to sanctimony, which drives me to towering rage. But these are value judgements, and therefore open to all. Purves can sit there unhappy that we are surrounded by smut, and I can throw my copy of The Times (or, more likely, someone else's copy of the Mail) across the room every time I read some pi piece of bigotry masquerading as 'common sense.' What I don't like is when such people attempt to bring prosecutions for obscenity, or to tell everyone else to agree with their own narrow view. And that is why I am wholeheartedly in favour of the many voices who will decry them as reactionary killjoys. Not because I think their views unacceptable, but because I dread them becoming enforced.

Unless, of course, the law is altered so I can bring private prosecutions for sanctimony, in which case it's all square again.

martinharell

Well, it is true that there is a big diffenrence regarding the sexes in how sexual behaviour is evaluated.

But especially I think that this difference SHOULD exist.

Now I will say something really old-fashioned.

Women have to defend their chastity. In men nothing comparable seems necessary.

Men can indeed score as much as they want, and it is alright with me. They should only show a certain disgression - but only for the sake of the ladies.

That is so because men arent women and women arent men.

A good woman is chaste.

A good man is ... something else.

This is the eternal truth.

Today people forbid themselves to see it. hence all the confusion on the subject.

martinharell

sorry... i meant of course discretion...

D.C. Thornbray

I think you were right the first time ;)

Snowman

Am with Austin Berry @ 12.50 on this one. Can you ever decouple evil acts, or any acts for that matter from people who perform them? Hmm

We talk about Beethoven as a genius not because of him per se, but because of his acts of music? Surely his music is inseparable from him as a person. Similarly with others blessed with the same capacity. If genius could be inherent in one’s persona why not evil?

The real cause of crime is the conscious decision of the criminal to commit it. She did, and should pay for it.

Avudale

David Bouvier, the litany of errors and the bizarre judicial system of Italy discredit any conviction and are obvious to even the most blinkered spectator. Deeper analysis turns up huge questions and the realisation that Knox would never have been convicted in Britain or America.

Snowman

Avudale: dunno, you think she committed suicide, do you?

Avudale

Snowman, they already convicted the actual murderer, who, without any evidence, fingered Knox. Read the news about the woeful DNA "evidence" (inadmissable in British or American courts), the forced "confession" (without a lawyer present and in Italian), the character assassination, the list is endless.

A sham trial by a sham country with a sham PM.

Snowman

Avudale @ 8.41:

Ever sat on a jury? People don’t convict that easily, and more often than not err on the side of the accused. The system may not be perfect, I admit. You have a better one to offer?

Also, you don’t have to get angry with the people, or the guy who runs it to make a point. It’s their country, you know.

Matt Wardman

Hmmm.

The Libby Purves article has been "vanished" from the Times website.

beachlover

Hey, who's going to mention that most guys would give their right testicle for a serious shagging sess with this pervy little minx!

S

Amazed at these comments here. Amazed at Libby Purves original article. Why are so many British people shocked over the Italian judicial system? You are all as misogynistic and twisted over here, in Britain. You think you are so clever, so liberal - the fact of the matter are that you're one of the most conservative, backwards countries in the western world. Not unlike the Italians. Go figure... Libby Purves should think more before she speaks (writes) and that goes for so many others here too. Today, after Knox and Sollecito's aquittal, these totally made up accusations and fairy-tales which made up ''the very probable evidence'' of the trial, that Purves so admired in her column should give some serious pause for thought. It's easy to blame women's sexuality for everything gone wrong in society, while not even sticking to the facts. While just spiralling further and further away from the tiniest bits of insights had about this case. And what is this eager, almost subconscious tendency a sign of, gentlemen (and perhaps a few ladies)? Yes - that's right. That times have pretty much stood still since Adam and Eve and the witch hunts of the medieaval era. Why didn't she devote any time to Guede (whose actual DNA was ACTUALLY Libby Purves should sooooooooo feel utterly and deeply and totally ashamed of hersef today. As a woman. As a journalist. No, Libby. You really need to start using your brain before putting pen to paper sometimes - get your facts right, will you? Or don't just write at all.