Faith schools are damaging religious identity

Yam Yam

It's less a case of faith schools attracting "posher punters" than them attracting any parent who desperately wants their seed to obtain the priceless gift of a decent education.

Fix the state school system (which hopefully Michael Gove's reforms will) and faith schools will then largely return to being places where they educate the children of men and women of faith.

Hugh

There seems to be a lot wrong for a short post: First, why should anyone who was truly devout care about "damaging religious identity"? What does that even mean? Nor, I suspect, was there a golden age where parents were religiously observant exclusively because they believed in God. There have always been and always will be those who are religiously observant for self-serving reasons. In fact, I'm fairly confident that bygone eras saw far more fake believers; in the past, many attended because it was simply the done thing (and it still is in certain places). Either way, I'm not sure it constitutes any sort of an argument against faith schools. Most good things can be abused; that's not a reason fro getting rid of them.
And the idea that most of those faking belief today do so because they are snobs and "feel too posh for the local comp" doesn't strike me as particularly charitable or particularly likely. Surely, it's more likely they look at the league tables and conclude the religious school is better, because it has better results. Whether they're right to think so can be argued but that doesn't change the motivation.
In fact, you don't really explain how it is relevant at all that those doing the faking are middle class. Would it be less of a problem from a theological point of view if they were working class, salt of the earth, religious fakers?

Occasional Ostrich

Hugh
December 17th, 2009 10:42am

Why can't yours be as succinct as the original posting?

Hugh

@Occasional Ostrich. The succinct version wasn't very nice. Anyway, I'm sure you can manage 250 words.

George J

Remarkable how a couple of those sentences actually make sense if you take out the word 'religious', as in:

"The row over admission policy at the Jewish Free School shows that faith schools are damaging identity, creating an aura of suspicion and anxiety."

"The average middle-class Londoner now sees identity as something that it might be in their interest to fake."

St Bruno

There has been ‘faith schools’ in England for many years whether Catholic, Cof E, or Jewish. There has only been a debate in recent years since the massive increase in the Islamic population and their need to have their own schools and other systems, their confessed hatred of other religions and Jewish in particular will always be a barrier, I trust, to the fulfillment of their needs. As an atheist friend once said that when he was younger he wanted to convert to Judaism but found it difficult and besides his mother wouldn’t allow him to.

David Bouvier

St Bruno - errr no, actually. There are two debates on faith schools:

one - are they are source of inter-community conflict through indoctrination (islamists, creationists, etc) and two - are they "unfairly" allowing "middle class" parents to actually get an half-decent non-PC education for their children, thereby showing up the "bog-standard" end of the state sector for the failing system that it is.

The first issue is not exclusively and not originally about Islamic schools.

This comment seems to be about the second argument - the weakening of religious identity; the first argument is about an excess of religious identity.

Shame to let a chance to mouth-off go by though, eh?

Jez

"Now it is just as likely to be that they can’t afford private but feel too posh for the local comp."

You're on about London for an instance?

I'd wail Hari Krishna from the lamposts if i knew it'd keep my children away from many of our inner-city 'local comps'.

And believe you me, i ain't posh.

TomTom

All Comprehensives should take on a C of E identity as this would allow all beliefs to flourish, and none. No other type of school can be so comprehensively Muslim as a Bradford C of E School and yet not be a 'faith' school with any doctrinal beliefs

hadrian

The usual liberal claptrap we expect from this site. The implication seems to be that responsibly rearing one's children in the faith encourages some degree of cheating and therefore the guilt is theirs, not the cheats'! Worse- overriding our freedom of religion must be the ensuring no such bad faith on the part of others can be permitted. This is outrageous logic. A fundamental right and responsibility of any faith - atheistic humanism included- must be that of nurturing our children in its tenets and practices. Indeed it could be argued state education itself is a form of world-view indoctrination in the false 'equal values'/moral equivalence view of all world views/religions. Nonsense and very dangerous nonsense at that!

St Bruno

David Bouvier
December 21st, 2009 3:49pm

Well said David.

‘Shame to let a chance to mouth-off go by though, eh?’
Feel I must say how sorry that my ‘mouthing-off’ should be commented on in such a sarcastic way.

Though I am aware of the debates as generated by the British media. I did not quite understand your argument. I have always been told: only answer the question. To which the answer is Yes!
I intended to mouth-off again but lost the will to live when it came to think of what to write. I put it down to the North-South divide and my excess of turkey, port and the very best stilton, oh, bliss.

ndm

The average middle-class Londoner now sees religious identity as something that it might be in their interest to fake.

Wasn't it ever so. I remember parents of women close to marriageable age suddenly turning to religion when it appeared a (church) wedding might be just over the horizon.

Rex Mottram

If religious schooling means that children who otherwise would be denied the benefits of an education in the Christian faith might be drawn to adhere to its teachings, that is more than justification for their existence. This is true regardless of the complex mixtures of motives that led to their parents placing them there.

The fact that the existence of faith schools drives pinch-faced liberals to hysterical distration, or, like Mr Hobson, to fabricate slurs about parents' motives, merely adds to the joy they bring.

Daniel McCarthy

Catholics are obliged to give their children 'a good Catholic education'.Neither the BBC nor HM Socialist Government like this very much.

ndm

Catholics are obliged to give their children 'a good Catholic education.' (my emphasis)

If they are so obliged they should oblige the rest of us by paying for it themselves.

hadrian

'..oblige the rest of us by paying for it themselves'. Well, there is a good argument that all education should be so funded. For sure, the State certainly doesn't fund Reformed or Protestant Christian schools!

fifer

Remind me again why I'm paying my hard-earned taxes to have someone else's brats taught that a) God exists and b) he chose as his representative on Earth a guy who used to be in the Hitler Youth?

al

The establishment have a disinclination that the population understand Islam - thus the Islamic schools (and to be politically correct faith schools) are one aspect of their attacks on Islam...

davel

Hello

As a new member I have not had chance to post. Faith schools were the only schools for some at one point. The idea that we use schools to reach people for God is a misnomer.

The idea was that compassion for people led some Christians to help educate children in the hope they could leave poverty behind.

God's vehicle for outreach is the church and the Bible, and he does not hold people to ransom, hopefully i can attend the lecture /debate as a born again fundamentalist. By the way the family is the important aspect, schools despite attempts to replace this unit have failed.

Public schools have a completely different remit.

mbdmbd

I agree. A comment should say more than just great post. In fact, why would you say great post without explaining your reason behind your words? Why not back up what you're saying and get people to interact with that? If you're going to leave a comment it's because you want to express how you feel to the author of the post and to whomever may read your comment and decide to add on to it further.
artho@electronic cigarette

Josh

Many faith schools are their own admissions authorities, which means they can give preference to children from families which share the religion of the school. Not only does this discriminate against pupils of the 'wrong' or no religion and infringe their rights by assuming their beliefs are identical to their parentsâ™, it also leads to segregation along religious and socio-economic lines - faith school populations are often far from representative of their local communities. If anyone can help me write my paper on this, it would be great.

Thanks.

Franko Damian

There are certain religious institutions that teach students to follow what they believe is right to live a better life. Just my opinion though.

Emily

Interesting article, and surprising that it is taking place in Saudi Arabia. Hopefully, the ban will be removed. Good post.
Emily

Joline Mercedes

In this society that we are right now, it may be but wise to take what are offered for free but it is also very important that those can afford to pay for private education will really pay for it. Anyhow that is investment wherein they will reap what they have put in later on. I love to read some essays about this.