Why is Rome keeping schtum about Pastor Nadarkhani?

Alan Wilson

Have you any thoughts on why the BBC has nothing to say on the story?

JohnBUK

Alan Wilson - I suppose it might upset Iranians or any minority faiths living in Britain?

Dan

If the Vatican spoke out a loud during World War II instead of working behind the scenes hundreds of thousands more Jews would have been killed - as well as more Catholics as one Dutch Bishop(s) found out - when as a result of his remarks a number of Catholic Religious and Clergy were gassed.

Slanderous comments without basis are really not worth typing - however pray, sacrifice and penance are key - I'm sure the Vatican are assisting, make a petition and have faith I'm sure this Pastor does as endures his trial.

Paul

It is hardly surprising that the Catholic Church is once again displaying no moral authority at all. It has shaped its entire existence over the past 500 years on denying the truths of the Reformation, and the habit has become impossible to break. Denial is the reflex response of a Church.

James

Don't forget that the Vatican is also a sovereign state and could have diplomatic channels open to Iran that are secret and more effective than public condemnations. I believe this definitely concerns the Vatican. This is the sort of issue they normally speak out on, but Iran is a hot button. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they are working behind the scenes.

Dan

Hi Paul, The reformation – that's a funny one, with tens of thousands of truths, pick your own brand of Christianity. We all know that with every generation truth changes in the reformed Church. Martin Luther had some good points but unfortunately he jumped out of the boat and the reformers having been falling ever since.

Andrew Karl

The Mullahs and the Vatican are two peas in a pod. They deny rational thought in favor of fear and superstition and mythology. Ancient dogma sold as "faith" poisons the human brain at an early age- whether it happens in Tehran or Alabama. How many Muslims were executed by the Church? The best hope for mankind is that people everywhere turn to reason. God Gave Us Reason, Not Religion http://www.deism.com.

Rita Warfel

Please don't compare Christians to Muslim extremists. We believe in the love and forgiveness of God, not extermination of any opposition.

Courtney

You are right to mention that the Vatican maintains diplomatic channels with Iran as a state.

We also must remember that it helped secure the release of British Naval personnel back in 2007, and did so in complete silence. It is very likely that this is the favoured strategy between the Vatican and Iran, seeing as it appears to have been effective in the past.

We only know about it through the Wikileaks release of US Embassy cables, the excerpt I copy below:

Iran

----

17. (C/NF) The Holy See is deeply concerned about the recent violence and ongoing human rights violations in Iran. It has been publicly silent to date on the current crisis, in part to preserve its ability to act as an intermediary if an international crisis emerges. (The Vatican helped secure the release of British sailors detained in Iranian waters in April 2007.) It is unclear how much clout the Vatican really has with Iran, however. NOYES

Alejandro

Wow! There are quite a lot of poorly thought out comments here! The Vatican has repeatedly defended religious liberty around the world and His Holiness has been quite adamant about protecting Christian minorities. It is quite possible that the Vatican is using its diplomatic channels and, as is usually the case, is doing behind the scenes work and not calling attention to itself. Those who start rambling on about WWII, Pius XII, and other Black Legends would do quite well to pickup a history book and read a bit. It pays to know what your talking about.

David Lindsay

The Holy See does not have bad relations with Iran. Not great ones. But not bad ones, either. In fact, Iran has had an arrangement in place for several years whereby the Vatican would mediate in any dispute with the United States should that matter ever really come to a head.

Why risk that, which has the potential to save far more lives if it ever needed to be put into operation, and why risk the safety of Catholics on the ground (who, again, do not have it easy, but do not have it too hard, either), to save the life of one man who comes out of the rather clod-hopping American-backed circles that do in fact make the lives of the ancient indigenous Christians in the Middle East very difficult indeed, and who probably believes the Papacy to be the Antichrist?

As, in fact, it must be. Unless all of its claims about itself are true in full. So, which is it? Are the Papal Claims true in full? Or is the Papacy the Antichrist? It must be one or the other.

David Lindsay

Oh, and if this sort of thing is routine in Iran, or at least quite common there, then how come this case is such a big story?

Noa.

This may help to answer Freddy Gray's question:-

*ttp://www.news.va/en/news/pope-benedict-xvi-pray-for-persecuted-evangelists

And on a matter of equal concern:-

*ttp://www.news.va/en/news/vatican-archbishop-hon-tai-fai-calls-for-religious

As an occasional visitor to this blog I am amazed at the visceral anti-Catholicism of some the posters, which appears to be beyond rationality.

John Kent

I agree - why so vicious about Catholicism? It is not as if Atheism does not have a blood stained history with Mao, Stalin and Hitler causing the worst genocides in history.

Holdsworth

Anti-Catholicism, from a variety of sources, is practically part of British culture.

You'd think the Catholic Church was some kind of evil force in the world and in the UK in particular. When in fact it provides massive amounts of infrastructure (eg. 25% of the healthcare in Africa) and generally Catholics are law-abiding, responsible people with low rates of unwanted pregnancy, divorce, and so on, who give large amounts of their time and money to help others. For example, the German Catholic Church gives more to the third world than the US government. But naturally these kinds of statistics aren't publicised.

I think that part of the problem is that Catholicism is so explicit: it's easy to pick holes in something that is so easy to find out about and label. Most people don't subscribe to such a prominent creed, and so their own beliefs can't be picked apart publicly like that. Many people don't even have strong views about what it means to be alive, what goodness is all about, and so on. I've found this when having discussions about Catholicism with atheists/agnostics: I request the right to ask the same kinds of questions I am being asked, eg. the issue of free will, where the idea of human rights for all comes from (actually - Christianity), and so on. It's harder to put together understanding than it is to criticise someone else's...

Anyway, this period of history in the UK when the Catholic Church was the subject of a few hostile pieces from the likes of Toynbee, Fry and Hari just isn't that relevant. The Church has been around for 2000 years. It is the most influential institution in world history (because of the teachings of its founder) and on a global level it is continuing to grow.

It has had many dark periods, not least the recent child sex abuse scandals, but it remains the single most powerful force for good in the world. Most Catholics are humble and just want to contribute to that great enterprise.

David Bouvier

Dan - so it is the Christian thing to do to not speak out in the face of evil, in case evil gets annoyed.

I would love to see some gospel references to show us the appeasment of evil is "what Jesus would do".

daniel maris

This is v. difficult moral territory.

I think ultimately it is wrong to moderate condemnation of cruel totalitarianism in order to "save" innocents. One cannot predict the future. To moderate criticism may result in horrendous genocide as happened under Nazi Germany.

One should be principled: condemn cruel totalitarians and seek to frustrate them, undermine them and defeat them.

Trevor

Are people seriously still accusing the Church or remaining silent during WWII?

Pius XII was a consistent critic of Hitler. To state otherwise is historical ignorance.

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0040.html

It's funny that so many Brits hate the church, seeing as how their own secularism has done nothing but destroy their own culture.