What Next for the "Decent" Left?

Marbury

"We on the left like to think of ourselves as good people"

Those on the right, of course, like to think of themselves as evil.

Matthew Blott

Excellent piece, as usual. Keep up the good work Martin.

Jack R

A strange, largely unconvincing political stance, Mr. Bright.

You leave much political territory unmentioned. And you elevate 'Guantanamo' apparently, above mass immigration, opposition to membertship of the E.U., etc.,etc.

And you remain utopian in your afterthought, point 1.), about "building networks within the Muslim community", for whom the Koran, and all it represents, remains the highest priority of that "community".

It is odd that someone associated with the 'Jewish Chronicle' has nothing positive to say about solidarity with Israel.

And there is nothing about positive political engagement with non-Muslim, non-neocon, non-'multicultural' people around 'Jihadwatch', which has one of the most solid critiques of Islam, something largely missing from the 'Left'. Go to 'Jihadwatch', etc. for explanation of Islam, and your final point 3.).

It seems that the myth of a politically pliable "Muslim community" comes first for you.

You still are, but I have hope for you, - as you describe yourself - "a classic woolly liberal".

Andrew S

Since when has an ardent desire to return the world to the middle ages been a part of any political ideology (other than perhaps eco-fundamentalist)? So why do you characterise some forms of Islamism as "extreme-right"? Right wing how exactly -extreme or otherwise? You'd have more of a shot at convincing me that there is anything decent about the left if you stopped these quasi-Maoist attempts to imply guilt by association.

Andre

Decent left? An oxymoron if ever I heard one.

Phil

I'm intrigued by your definition of the Iraq invasion as wrong in retrospect but correct at the time.

Look at it this way. If the invasion was wrong (as you now believe it was), then presumably the world would be a better place if it hadn't happened. But in that case those of us who opposed it were right to do so.

Alternatively, if the world is a better place for the invasion having happened, then those of us who opposed it were wrong to do so. But in that case the invasion isn't wrong in retrospect either.

Obviously I'm stating these alternatives in very stark terms, but they're the terms you use. You don't reach a nuanced position by combining two opposites.

Dan Davies

When you say:

"Incidentally, I now think the invasion was indeed an error: carried out at the wrong time, by the wrong coalition for the wrong reasons"

doesn't this therefore mean that you are now, in 2009, arguing that the murderous Ba'ath regime should have stayed in power? And therefore, isn't this, now, on your conscience just as much as it is on that of the anti-war left? There seems to be a strong case of having your cake and eating it here - you want to retrospectively oppose the war, while condemning people who did so at a time when it might have made a difference.

Dan Davies

(and also, if you don't think that it should be allowed to chuck around charges of racism, then you might want to be a bit more careful about writing articles like "What makes the left vilify Israel?" (linked in the sidebar), and in general to have a word with your mates at Harry's Place.

Sarah

Perhaps another problem for the 'decent left' (for its bloggers at least) is that it seems to attract fanboys from the indecent right (as opposed to the decent right!).

mac

What's next?

Same as always, of course: convoluted, earnest discussion following ever-decreasing circles, quoting malign or misguided (and invariably foreign) theorists, all leading to impractical and ruinously expensive policies.

@ Marbury: HaHa!

blueharry

'Earlier this month I was asked to address an audience about what future there might be for the “decent left”. '

Was that the overdue funeral for the long deceased Euston Manifesto?

Cuffleyburgers

But Martin, the Decent Left presumably still believes in socialism, ie a high tax redistibutive regime which effectively rewards laziness and stupidity, and penalises enterprise, hardwork, honesty and courage.

I am all in favour of a "hand up" to the unfortunate, but what has been created by labour is a massive "handout", and furthermore an immense industry of non-productive non-jobs to administer the whole lot. I am totally opposed to this approach.

Your other opinions, eg on foreign policy seem so woolly and ocnfused that you wouldn't want to base a foreign policy on that.

That would presumably explain why labour has been so keen to outsource our sovereignty to brussels - so they don't have to think about difficult stuff, and can concentrate on recruiting diversity outreach officers.

Rhoda Klapp

I think I understand. The decent left want, reluctantly, to take my money and give it to the undeserving or otherwise waste it on fruitless projects, whereas the other left want to take and waste the same money, but also despise me and spit in my eye.

Dave Weeden

The thing Martin Bright seems to have forgotten when he says "that of a classic woolly liberal: hedging my bets, not sticking my neck out," is that the causus belli was also wooly in that there were at least two clear narratives -- the humanitarian one (Saddam is a right bastard, feeds people into plastic shredders, etc) which the Decents apparently signed up for -- and the 'clear and present danger' WMD 45-minute one which, I think, was the one which Parliament actually voted on. (There were others; Gulf War I not really finished; Saddam helping al Qaeda, but there were never convincing.)

I never believed the dodgy dossier argument, and its existence in parallel with the humanitarian one made the second unconvincing too. It wasn't the opposition that was wooly, it was the reasons for the war. Strange how long it took all our Decent friends to oppose Saddam when he came to power in 1979.

Martin, you were right to think that the Iraq invasion "would probably lead to fratricide, sectarianism and the break up of the country into Sunni, Shia and Kurdish enclaves." It did.

Colin

"Decent left"?

I've heard of the Thick, the Naive and the Evil left. There's no such thing as the "decent left".

Sorry, nice try...

jimh

sorry. don't think so. While you may believe that leaving Saddam in power would have been on my conscious - it would not have been an issue. Am I to have on my conscious the things that Mugabe, Kim, and others do that I have no power over? Unless you believe their countries have no sovereign rights and it is our responsibility to impose our structure of law and rights on other cultures? While I am not even going to attempt to say that all cultures are equal or that we can't call things barbaric, it is not for me to determine anothers fate. Considering the questions surrounding the US election in 2000 there is no way we should be invading other countries because we don't like the electoral results - true or fake. That is up to the local population as it always is to demand their own rights. Otherwise they will get taken away with the next regime. Look at the US where many civil liberties have been infringed or lost and not many have given a shit. How are we to make the determination that this right or that right is fundamental for others when even the ones in the constitution don't apply for us anymore.

ndm

Spot the hypocrite:

-- a tendency towards anti-Semitism in some left-liberal discussion of Israel and the Middle East.

-- 2. Fight the charges of neoconservatism and Islamophobia. These bald terms of abuse should be challenged at every turn. I am not a believer in using the laws of libel, but it should not be acceptable to call people racist as a matter of course.

Ah, yes, assertions of neoconservatism and Islamophobia are despicably base libels while anti-Semitism is a fine term-of-art for "some left-liberal discussion of Israel and the Middle East." As Martin Bright knows full well the utterly despicable slander of anti-Semitism is routinely used against anyone who dares criticize the militant racism that forms the central ideology of modern Zionism.

The primary goal of what Bright refers to as the "decent left" was and is to provide moral succour to the decades-long Israeli oppression of the Palestinian people. Indeed, the "decent left" cannot write an article on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict without spewing words like anti-Semite and anti-Semitism all over the page. But to the Martin Bright's of this World this is presumably acceptable "as a matter of course," because as he knows full well these accusations are far more frequent and far more serious than accusations of neoconservatism and Islamophobia.

It is time we had a word with the moral force of anti-Semite to describe those Western public intellecutuals who rush into print apologies and excuses for each and every transgression of international humanitarian law committed by Israel. They are destroying the country Israel could have been.

sarah

I've just been reminded - by a very irritating article by Nick Cohen (whom I normally agree with) about working women exploiting cleaners - of another problem with the decent left. They seem rather prone to lapse into sexism - it's just a slight trend and obviously doesn't apply to all 'decents' - Norman Geras for example has never struck me as remotely sexist.

@Andrew S - I take your point but phrases such as 'extreme right' or 'far right' have generally accepted connotations which have nothing to do with free markets or libertarianism (and yes I do accept that many of the BNP's policies could be described as left wing.) I would have thought the average Conservative would shy away from anyone who might be described as 'extreme-right'. Certainly I, as a Labour voter, would react far more negatively to someone who was described as 'extreme left' or 'far left' than I would to a Conservative voter.

steve

Ah, the old 'not all the Decents supported the Iraq war' meme. Weird, though, how signing the Euston Manifesto demands a commitment to supporting acts of foreign policy exactly like - but *obviously* very different from - the Iraq war. If you can name a single Decent who didn't support Iraq, and who has consistently voiced opposition to the US/UK presence there, I'd be grateful to hear it.

As it is this is a thoroughly disingenuous piece of writing. As others have pointed out, you claim to have been equivocal on Iraq yet claim that those who didn't support the war have blood on their hands - but surely this means that all of us have any blood spilt, anywhere in the world, on ours hands? including you Martin? You claim that unfounded accusations of racism are abhorrent yet in the Jewish Chronicle you explicitly stated that UK left opposition to the actions of the Israeli Defence Force has its root in antisemitism. This article on decency makes absolutely no sense and it's typical of the 'one rule for us, another for our 'enemies' approach of Harry's Place et al.

And your action plan for the Decent Left is to... keep doing exactly what they've been doing for the past eight or so years. Thanks for that.

I'd have a lot more time for the Decent profession of commitment to bridge-building if they didn't start smear campaigns and witch-hunts - usually involving utterly despicable charges of racism and mental illness, exactly the stuff you're meant to be opposing, Martin - against anyone who didn't uncritically support the Iraq war and who doesn't give carte blanche to the IDF whenever it starts another pointless onslaught. Witness the unfortunate recent case of Seph Brown, among countless other examples.

I appreciate that people like alan Johnson liek to think of themselves as good people. But their actions speak for themselves. The Decents are, in general, utterly reprehensible and the exact opposite of what a group committed to 'building bridges' should look like.

Charlie

The Labour Party lacks the Ernie Bevin and Don Concannon type of members. The late Quenn Mother described Bevin " As a proper Englishman". Physically tough people who had undertaken arduous and dangerous work; who were generous of spirit, naturally socially conservative, patriotic, embued with common sense and practical outlook on life; who wanted to improve the quality of life of the working class. Thse people tend to be free of resentment and the class war mentality.

What the Labour Party has become is an organisation dominated by left wing, often former trotskyists , white collar arts educated middle class types, invariably government or quango employees, who have never undertaken skilled,difficult or dangerous work; are resentful, mean and vindictive and wish to impose their views on others. They have little experience of working class life and it's values and in fact are contemptuous of many of it's socially conservative value such as loyalty to kith and kin and patriotism. Many hard working, honourable and tough working cass people live a chivalrous life and phrases such as " Fair play to you", " You do not kick a man when he is down"," Do not stab a man the back", "Pick on someone your own size" but accepted that two equally matched men sorting out their differnces with their fists was a perfectly honourable state of affairs. Which it is.
The middle class labour member would sorts out differences by stabbing people in the back.

This why the Labour has failed to increase technical training at the same rate as arts training which has led to decline in manufacturing and allowed housing to be appointed on a needs system, rather than the old fashioned British queue system. Improving the standard of craft training benefits the working class, increasing expenditure on degrees in arts subjects at ex-polys primarily benefits the left wing academic. Many arts degrees from ex-polys are likely to become sub-prime.

Hugh

The Decent Left at its core is the left-wing branch of the Israel lobby. Because of the centrality of Israel to your project you’re stuck with whatever Israel decides to do. So the future of the Decents is the same as the past - you’re going to be spending your time thinking up left-wing justifications for why we should support, or at least not criticise, Israeli policies and foreign policy objectives.

ndm

The American name "liberal hawk" is a far more honest and descriptive term for what Martin Bright lauds as the "decent left." More honest still would be the name "liberal vulture" because there doesn't seem to be an upper limit to the number of Muslims they want dead as proof of their decency.

neill

capcha: as in "beneath contempt revisionism from some archimedean anal cavity"

zosima

WTF, Martin?

How can you say that you oppose the War in retrospect, but opposing the war before the war is tantamount to supporting Bathists?

That is just plain dumb, unless you're trying to tell us that you heart Bathists.

People like myself opposed the War because we've read a few history books. We understand that all wars are messy, tragic, and painful. That wars should not be treated as whimsical endevours; as props to promote success in domestic politics. Or maybe its just because Saddam's "automated drones" were held together with Duct tape.

Only very stupid and deluded people actually believed that a country like Iraq posed a serious threat to us.

Only very ignorant and mypopic people believed that the collateral damage of war would be small enough that the war wouldn't constitute a humanitarian crisis.

Alun Reynolds

"extreme-right"? Right wing how exactly -extreme or otherwise?

Oh that's easy. Like most Leftie Liberal Journos Martin is lazy and categorises anything and anyone extreme as 'Right'.

They forget that Hitler was a leftist, Stalin was a leftist, the BNP are leftist.

No bad people can't possibly have leftist tendencies. That would be unthinkable.

Tom Griffin

Perhaps if the Decent Left were doing more to expose the neoconservatives' alliance with Islamophobic and indeed anti-semitic groups on the US Christian right and the European far right in the 'counter-jihad' movement, it would be easier to tell them apart.

Martin Bright

The Decent Left belongs with Cameron's Conservatives.

Good state funded education, a secure NHS, tough measures against crime.

The Unpleasant Left has much in common with the Far Right,
as it always had.

Communism & hard core socialism only exist when violently
imposed. One Nation Conservatism give citizens most of the
demands of "respectable " 19th century Leftists, including the
Chartists.

No mature adult wants permanent revolution.
The Conservatives will bring a better standard of living & quality of life to the poorer classes, whose lot has deteriorated over
the last 25 years.