Michal Kaminski: An Astonishing New Twist

Nicholas

Having found a dagger and stabbed with it, the dying New Labour hegemony (state, media and academia) will no doubt twist it for all its worth. Desperation breeds desperate measures I suppose.

Are these skeletons in the closet any different to the Marxist communist extremism that many of the present cabinet evinced in their youth? After all, that ideology was/is responsible for the oppression, torture and deaths of millions of innocents but seems to bring no renunciation or shame on the part of its closet adherents.

As long as the government's priority appears to be attacking the opposition rather than . . . er . . . governing, their credibility is kinda thin.

TrevorsDen

Murray actually says "I knew Kaminski slightly" ah 'slightly'.
This would be the same pompous Craig Murry who ran and came nowhere in the Norfolk North by-election?

He says he is 'independent' but he is no more independent of trendy lefty views than you are. You are happy to believe heresay 'cos it suits your prejudice. And disbelieve the horses mouth likewise.

DavidDP

Twist is right. You appear to have twisted his words quite spectacularly. His point about Nazi crimes compared to those carried out by Poles is one he has made elsewhere, and what he actually said was that there is a difference, not in magnitude, but in that the Nazi regime was a state, and it's crimes a matter of state policy, whereas the Polish crimes weren't. That is why Germany needed to apologise as a country, but for Poland, it is the individuals concerned, not Poles as a whole.

I had a great deal of respect for you, but twisting his words like that? Shame on you.

Martin Bright

Mr Kaminski said what he said. It is up to people to decide for themselves whether he is an appropriate ally for the Conservative Party. I'm not a Tory so it's your call. I hope you make the right one.

Chris

>I found his responses to my questions on the wartime massacre of Jews by Poles at Jedwabne in north east Poland unconvincing.

In other news, a dog is rumoured to have bitten a man in Salford. And Craig Murray's aboard the good ship 'Lying Lefty', eh? Well, that's the Tories done for, and no mistake.

Fergus Pickering

Well, I'm a Tory, I've heard what he said and I've decided. The guy's OK. Is that the right call, Mr Bright?

Beer Moth

Martin, you're officer of the watch on the SS Jude. You're in the Med'. There's a fire below decks and you've got the whole crew up top keeping an eye out for icebergs.

So to speak.

Peter Buss

I have no time for Milliband but I do have a lot of respect for Martin Bright as a man of honour and principle.I am Conservative supporter but I can see no reason at all to believe that Martin Bright has decided just for the fun of it to harbour serious doubts about Kaminski.In fact it is because Martin IS a man pf principle that he is worth the Spectator in the first place!

I don't know who is right on this but this story just will not go away. I just hope that the paryy eally did do a proper screening process for the fact is that the Tories are actually led by this guy in Europe.I do hope the anti EU fanaticism of people like Dan Hannan has not led the Party to overlook things which wee better not to be laughed off just to set up an anti EU Group in Brussels for this is what it increasingly smells of to my mind.

I am someone who is now voting again Conservative becasue of David Camerons leadeship and One Nation politics yet this wretched business fit uneasily with the sort of guy Cameron is and stands for.

Dean

What's fatuous about this whole debate is the idea that we are being told anything new, or revelatory, about Eastern European politics. It is well known that anti-semitism has had strong roots in Poland. One of the reasons for that is the influence of the Catholic church. Another is the fact that Poland had the largest Jewish population in Europe before the Second World War, and some Poles (though obviously not all) felt threatened by that. It is equally true, however, that thousands of Poles risked their own lives to help Jewish families fleeing Nazi persecution.

It is also true that some Eastern Europeans, living under Soviet dominance, collaborated with the Germans against Stalin's regime during the War. This has given rise to a complex historical legacy about which many people in the region have felt, and continue to feel, highly ambivalent. This permeates politics at all levels, and for example one would be equally likely to find anti-semitic and homophobic views in centre left political parties in Poland. You just can't analyse and judge the politics of these countries through a British prism of political correctness. The bottom line is that we weren't there and didn't have to make those choices in the context of the time.

Kaminski may or may not be a disreputable ally for the Conservatives, but the same could probably be said about lots of other politicians on mainland Europe, particularly in countries where the influence of the Catholic church is strong. Scratch beneath the surface and you'll find all sorts of ancient prejudices in the least expected of places.

Any Colour but Brown

The findings of an inquiry came to the conclusion that a total of 40 Poles were involved in the massacre at Jedwabne. This is in contrast to the thousands of Nazis, who committed atrocities in the Jewish ghettoes and in the KZs like Auschwitz (something like 2 million Jews murdered) or Treblinka, where over 99% of the 850000, who were murdered in the camp were Jews.

On the whole, Poles, like most of the rest of Europe, helped the Jews escape from the murderous clutches of the Nazis.
Nazis murdered Jews as a matter of policy - they intended genocide of all Jews. A few Poles killing 340 Jews is a totally different order of magnitude and of social mentality.
If you can't understand the difference, you're just stupid.
To twist the words, for political gain is just sick.

Snowman

Dean's right. Forget about the war, look at some of the allies of Labour from the East European countries. Many were prominent members of the communist parties. That bothers you not Mr. Bright?

Baltic Boy

David Milliband, the son of a Communist is happy to distort history and portray the Tories as a bunch of Fascists. This just shows how desperate he is. When he accuses the Latvian For Fatherland and Freedom party of being associated with Hitler's SS, he is treading on very dangerous ground.

Mr Milliband, you are insulting all the peoples of the Baltic States by refusing to acknowledge their suffering under the hands of Stalin's Communist Red Army and the subsequent 50 years of terror under Soviet occupation. Every Latvian, Estonian and Lithuanian knows of someone in their family who was murdered by Stalin's evil army - Hundreds of thousands of men, women and children were thrown into cattle trucks and transported to the frozen wastes of Siberia to be shot or to die in Labours camps. The Latvians have every right to commemorate the moment when the German army put a stop to the killings and drove out the red army from their country.

Mr Milliband, you have fallen victim to Soviet propaganda. President Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin will be proud of you!Maybe you should consider becoming an advisor to the Russian Government after Cameron has been elected PM. There you can proudly carry on singing the Red Falg anthem which you sang with particular vigour at the last Labour Party conference.

TomTom

Alexander Kwasniewski was a Communist functionary who served under Jaruzelski during Martial Law. He lied about his past and won a bitter election by a very narrow margin. The smears are about par for the course as we see in British elections.

Miliband is a dimwit promoted way beyond his A-Level grades by a marxist father sponsored by Harold Laski.

Why not dwell on Jack Jones (TGWU) as KGB operative betraying the Wilson Governments to Moscow ?

Richard

Grow up Bright.

If you can't understand him that means that you are not as clever as you think you are, it doesn't mean that Kaminski is anti-Semitic. It is perfectly obvious to the rest of us (including Rabbis and the Israeli government) what he meant, and that he has no case to answer.

You then quote Craig Murray, the nutty conspiracy theorist. Wow. You expect people to take you seriously?

Actually, scrub all that. I don't think you're thick. I don't think you believe Mad Murray. I think you are desperately twisting to try to get a story where there is none. Pure, partisan politics.

You have not even addressed the issue of those in the EU socialist group who used to be communists, some who still are. That is every bit as bad as what Kaminski is accused of, and has the added importance of actually being true.

Cuffleyburgers

Mr Bright - Once again, the Tories being in an alliance with Kaminsky is not because they are anti semetic, but because on the most important issue in european politics, they are anti-federalist.

You comment regarding Churchill is instructive for its obvious stupidity. During the last major threat to our sovereignty we had to form an alliance with some fairly ghastly people in order to beat the Nazis. The odious individual with whom we considered ourselves allies and supplied with arms at immense cost in lives and cash was of course Stalin, who went on to murder more people than Hitler.

Nobody says that Churchill was wrong to do that.

By the standards of modern political debate, as a conservative, Churchill should presumably have been expected to ally himself with Hitler against Stalin?

You continual posting on this issue, and the left's thrashing of it in general really just highlights the paucity of your arguments, and the intellectual poverty and general moral bankrupcy of your side.

Chris

Martin

How about accepting that the politics in that part of the world are different to our own? Peoples views are highly affected by both catholicism and communism, and therefore it is difficult to align to our own views.

If he is so bad you could perhaps compare him to those now on the left in Europe who were complicit in the cruel and repressive aspects of communism. If you did that then you could make a proper comparison, but instead you seem to be intent on twisting words.

On travelling around eastern europe you will notice a hatred of Soviet Russia akin to our hatred of communism. For example I suggest a visit to Riga's Museum of Occupation, which is highly informative, and shows why people chose to fight alongside the Germans, namely the Russians would execute those who had not fought against them because they were complicit, like they would kill their own returned prisoners of war. We did not have difficult decisions about fighting for the the right sides. The people of eastern europe had to choose between to bad options.

Vulture

Dear Martin Not-Very
By and large British voters don't give a stuff abt what did or did not happen in Poland 70, seventeen or even seven years ago.
What they do care very much about is the fact that the sub-moronic party that you stubbornly continue to support has reduced this country to the status of a bankrupt municipal toilet over the past 12 years - and will be voting accordingly however often you try to flog this very dead old horse.

Bar Bar of Oz

Martin, the most interesting thing about your migration from the NS to the Speccie has been the change in the commenters!

Have been here for 8 weeks with a miserably resigned "Cameron is the (pale) heir to Blair" mindset until this issue surfaced.

My gosh, there is nothing, nothing more defining of the difference between Labour values and the Torys than Cameron's alliance with the fringe right in the EU parliament. And it's not just because of Cameron linking his party to odious neo fascism. It's because denying Lisbon is denying the future, something Blair would never do.

The Torys are paranoic about the possibility of Blair becoming the next president of the EU. They are not so much afraid of Blair personally as they are afraid of the ideas and policies he represents. But these ideas and policies will be advanced by the next EU president whoever he/she is - because this is the future. A future that is just been dramatically endorsed by 60% of the Irish electorate. It is also Labour's big opportunity.

Your commenters frothing kneejerk responses whenever you raise the issue reveals the government could mercilessly drive a train through the Torys on Lisbon and force Cameron to either back down or go to the election more honestly as the leader of the party of reaction, not reform and progress. But is the govt capable of making a sustained onslaught? Miliband at least has made a good start.

Ian Walker

Milliband, meanwhile, is in the same party as a war criminal ex-leader, an unelected Prime Minister, a law-breaking Attorney General, a corrupt Home Secretary, a fraudulent Business Secretary, etc. etc.

He's making the tactical decision to appeal to the hard-left rump of the Labour party that is all that will be left (ho ho) after the next election. No doubt he suspects that "Leader of the Opposition" is at the very uppe rend of his talents, so might as well get it out of the way.

In2minds

Ian Walker – You are right. I can understand this so can you, please give dear Martin more time.

Judy

Martin, you surely don't take Oliver Kamm as a right wing ideologue. He's one of many who has come to the conclusion that Craig Murray is not just unreliable, but a ludicrous and embittered crank with inter alia a track record of writing distorted defences of the most indefensible regimes, such as the Iranian one.

My family were victims of Polish antisemitism--one of my distant cousins was murdered by antisemitic Poles in 1946 when she tried to return to her home village after hiding as a partisan during the war. So I do take whitewashing of the Polish track record very seriously.

I don't like or agree with Kaminiski, but his attitude is a common one amongst survivors of Communist rule. It is not of itself anti-semitic but far too ready to gloss over Polish racism and related murders by a process of relativizing against much greater Nazi and Soviet murderousness.

However, I find that you do much the same. You keep on and on about Kaminiski as a stick to beat Cameron (who I don't support with) whilst keeping very quiet about some of the equally outrageous bedfellows of the Labour Party (both internal and external, including in the European Socialist grouping and the UK and allied trade union movements), including those who want to have Israel boycotted and excluded from developing trade relations with the EU, and those who are happy to recycle anti-semitic tropes about both Israel and those in the UK who try to expose their double standards and singling out of Israel.

I think on this point, Stephen Pollard is more authoritative than you and your continuing attempts to dredge up the likes of Craig Murray to support your case begin to make you look like you're acting as an advocate for Labour Party interests without acknowledging it.

As a fan of yours, I'm really dismayed by this.

Cottage Pie

I am astounded how the massacre of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children in the Baltic States by Stalin's death squads is never discussed in this country.
Chris says:
"On travelling around Eastern Europe you will notice a hatred of Soviet Russia akin to our hatred of communism.......the Russians would execute those who had fought against them because they were complicit.. they would kill their own returned prisoners of war. We did not have difficult decisions about fighting for the right sides. The people of Eastern Europe had to choose between two bad options.

This is probably the first time I have read a posting on a discussion board which shows that someone in the country has a grasp of what really went on during the war - which lasted for another 50 years for the Baltic states until 1991. Labelling the fight against Communism as neo-nazism as David Miliband has repeatedly done over the last couple of weeks is a sign that this brainwashed son of a Communist is not fit to be an MP, let alone Foreign Secretary of Great Britain.

Dirty Euro-

It is very unedifying to see tories justifying anti semitism. They need to take a step back and take a reality check on our how they are behaving. So the commies and jews are now the same are they?

denverthen

The dead horse clearly hasn't been flogged quite enough yet for the left activist/"journalists".

Truly woeful. In every way.

Lupus Lungfish

I'm sure I must be really dumb or something-could anyone explain why people hate Jews. I'v bumbled through life this past 30 odd years of adulthood, I know about the money lending stuff, I sort of know the Bible etc and in fact have had business dealings with them. I still don't get it!. I happen to think they are excellent hosts and know how to have a really good party (although a bit flash sometimes!) Could anybody enlighten me please?. The only thing I can hold against the Jews is they still like those sheepskin rugs, but hey, I'm prepared to overlook that.

denverthen

Blame the parents. I do. And I thank God for mine.

Catesby

From the Daily Mail (4 Aug 2007) quoting the Russian newspaper Tvoi Den:

in the Twenties the Foreign Secretary's grandfather, Samuel, then Shimon, Miliband... had fought under the command of Trotsky 'eliminating' white Russians opposed to Communism.

michael

Germany (and Austria to some degree)still suffer from the indoctrination brought about by the 'Hitler youth'.

A significant proportion of the older generation, largely those who did not fight, still believe.
For these people there is very much an anecdotal animosity toward Jews, the history of the holocaust is plausibly deniable, and the world is put to rights by the introduction of unser Adi(our Adolf)into a conversation.

Unfortunately for Germany it will be good few years before it can finally exorcise its ghosts.

TrevorsDen

"David Milliband, the son of a Communist is happy to distort history and portray the Tories as a bunch of Fascists." How so very true. Mr Bright has shown himself to be just another delusioned lefty.

SlavojHumboldt

Some words from a Pole of the centre right.

Mr. Bright is correct on this matter, I am afraid. Mr. Kaminski has been a force for the neo-Nazi/far-right for some time now. His party has very little in common with your Conservative Party, which is more akin to our Civic Platform. It really is enormously shameful and, indeed, inexcusable that your Conservative Party has made a pact with these groups. What the USSR did was bad, but this does not excuse the perspectives and opinions of Mr. Kaminski. The man is an anti-Semite, pro-Lisbon, homophobic and a nationalist. If your Conservative Party is comfortable with this? Then so be it.

Shame on all of them.
Do widzenia.

ingo

Judy, your comments on Craig Murray are not only false, but you can't point to one instance were your aquisations stick.
Instead of maligning as good source of information you should treasure it, as there are very few these days. Grow up Judy, try and source your aquisations or keep your trap shut.

Peter Jackson

Nobody cares

Charles Crawford

This Martin Bright piece merely echoes the Labour/Miliband 'dead cat' play against the Conservatives where Kaminski and that profound non-issue are concerned.

As formerly HM Ambassador to Poland from 2003-2007 I have written at some length about Kaminski and Polish anti-semitism on my website: www.charlescrawford.biz (see under the Poland, Europe left-hand link).

Three points for media and other folk to think about asking Mr Miliband:

- Was Mr Kaminski a guest at any lunch hosted by Mr Blair at No 10 following the victory by the Law and Justice party (PiS) in Poland in 2005?

- Did No 10 and the FCO encourage the Embassy in Warsaw to work hard with key Law and Justice advisers (such as Mr Kaczynski) and top PiS leaders to help secure the EU Budget deal under the UK Presidency in 2005?

- Did No 10 and the FCO express great satisfaction at the outcome of the 2007 negotiations on the Lisbon Treaty, when many concessions favouring the UK position were achieved thanks to Mr Blair's close working relationship with President Kaczynski at the key final negotiations?

You never know, you might get some answers.

Ben

Several commentators have referred to the enmity that exists in the Baltic states towards the Stalin-era Soviets and their inheritors. Yet hatred between Russia and its neighbours far predates Communism, and exists in a somewhat muted form in the post-Soviet era too.

Solzhenytsin tells in the Gulag Archipelago of the presence of imprisoned anti-Bolshevik Russian nationalists who railed against Latvians and other Balts, calling them slave-peoples and demanding that their national freedom be liquidated. Dostoevsky's books are full of contempt and derision towards all non-Russian peoples of the region. Bloody war between Russia, and Poland and the Ukraine and others, took place in the 1920's up until just a decade before WW2. The internet today is rife with extreme nationalist Russian blogs that evince hatred towards the Poles, Georgians, Ukrainians and others.

And the antipathy is reciprocated by the non-Russians. Meanwhile, the presence of large ethnic-Russian minorities in most of these countries ensures that the pot will keep boiling for the forseeable future.