Smoking Guns and the Morality of Parliamentary Privilege

Simon Stephenson

"The present crisis is a sign that the political class has simply forgotten that it is possible to act according to a personal ethical code without reference to whether something is legal or not"

But, Martin, the entire social development of the last 50 years has been towards encouraging individuals to behave precisely as they wish, with the rights and well-being of others being protected only by laws, not by custom nor by ethical codes. More or less the entire population below the age of 50 now sees individual fulfilment as the primary purpose in life, with social health and prosperity a long way behind.

Why should we expect MPs to behave in a way that is contrary to how most of the rest of society behaves?

If we think it's wrong, then surely the way to change it is to address the prevailing social attitude that is the cause behind it, not focus on creating a few scapegoats while doing exactly nothing about what is actually the problem?

Jeremy

Martin Bright:

"The present crisis is a sign that the political class has simply forgotten that it is possible to act according to a personal ethical code without reference to whether something is legal or not."

...and hence, I would suggest, the contempt in which they are held. The problem is with the personal ethical standards - the sheer venality, if you like - of so many within the "political class"; spread, as it is, across all three main political parties and beyond. They simply cannot be trusted...least of all with the destiny of the nation. The "legal literalism" to which you refer is symptomatic of how bankrupt of personal honour and decency of feeling so many of this class are.

This has truly been "The Rotten Parliament"...and it has done profound damage to the spirit and sensibility of the nation.

mark

Is it just me (OK maybe it is) but am I alone in noticing that the average amount "embezzled" by the parliamentarians is soemthing less than £3000 (I'm working on £1.12m /390 MPs.

Now say what you like, but that really doesn't smell to me like the stew of extreme corruption. Clearly a few MPs - those who will be prosecuted plus probably a few others have been corrupt. Trouble is that when you remove from the total the sort of amounts mentioned the average for the rest falls still further to the kinds of sum that reasonable people (i.e. anyone not wound up to a fury by lavishly expense accounted journalists) might excuse as accidental or, as some have alleged, that they were encouraged to claim. They are the sort of sum someone might underpay in tax or or overclaim by way of social security benefits over a similar period that the MPs claims accrued -perhaps innocently. Why on earth are we beating our constituion up over this?

resistor

'It is an utter disgrace that Devine, Chaytor and Morley believe they can use the principle of privilege to hide from justice.'

But you believe that Israeli war criminals should be able to hide from justice.

teledu

Mark - a crime is a crime. It's no use saying let's forget about it as it's not as big a crime as something else; that's rather like saying don't prosecute a rapist because it's not as bad a crime as murder. Where do you draw the line?

Martin Bright

Brave anonymous "resistor": I do not say that war criminals, Israeli or otherwise, should be able to escape justice. Please "resist" making inaccurate comments that misrepresent my views, which are publicly available. You might try reading the first sentence of the piece I wrote for the Jewish Chronicle when the issue of Tzipi Livni's arrest first came up: http://www.thejc.com/comment/analysis/25182/analysis-this-stuff-really-matters-labour-government

resistor

Complete garbage. You know the Israelis won't be charged at the ICC

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2002/6/Israel%20and%20the%20International%20Criminal%20Court

- but they can be here. That's why your employers at the JC and BICOM are lobbying to have the law changed.

Mark2

Resistor

You are wrong. The reason the law will be changed has little to do with Israel specifically but rather because no country is going to let its foreign policy - which includes of course whether foreign leaders and politicians can visit a country - be hi jacked by obsessives and wingnuts. Today its Israel in the spotlight but wait till someone tries it with say, China.