Reasons for cheer – and concern – in Egypt

victor jara 67

Islamism defines itself as being against western involvement and interference in Arab/Islamic countries. Its rise is the result of such interference.

It is a mistake to lump all Islamists and in this case the Muslim brotherhood as extremist Jihadis. Within the organization there is a wide spectrum of views from the extreme to the moderate. It is ill informed propogandists in the right wing media who continue to misinform and lump them as an homogenous group.

Richard Manns

@ victor jara

That's not the common definition of Islamism. You are misinformed. Were your definition to be correct, Nasser would be an Islamist, which rather illustrates the absurdity of your self-penned definition.

Your description instead lumps Arab Nationalism with Islamism, ideologies that are historically very opposed. It is you who lumps disparate groups together, not the "right-wing media".

victor jara 67

@Richard Manns
I was specifically referring to political Islam and its rise over the last decade.

Take for example Hamas. Its rise has been due to the corruption within the PA and Fatah and the vacuum left by a lack of a settlement to the I/P conflict. In Gaza they now represent a strain of Palestinian nationalism.

Erica Blair

Except the Egyptians don't see themselves as split between secularists and Islamists. Bright is urging a continuation of divide and rule.

What is certain is that any democratic government in Egypt will be less friendly to Israel, which is Martin 'Hasbara' Bright's real concern.

Richard Manns

@ victor jara

Your definition is wrong, or at best, horribly incomplete and missing the central tenet of Islamism, which is to impose a highly proscriptive and theocratic regime supposedly in emulation of a bygone Golden Age. Rejection of outside influence predicates on that central point, not as an axiom as of itself.

@ Erica Blair

Given the Muslim Brotherhood's epic failure to even leap onto the band-wagon, I can't see they'll be that big in the post-Mubarak era (assuming there will be one). If Egyptians as a whole do not perceive a difference, I'm pretty sure they'll learn one. ElBaradei is unlikely to chop your hands off, for a start.

Matt Pryor

"What is certain is that any democratic government in Egypt will be less friendly to Israel, which is Martin 'Hasbara' Bright's real concern."

And it should be yours as well, unless you actually WANT to see another war break out. Peace between Egypt and Israel has been beneficial for both countries and the region, as well as the UK. Only the most deranged and obsessive Israel hater would want to see it end.

victor jara 67

@Matt Pryor,
Off course no one wants to see a war but the Egyptian people were rather fed up with Mumbaraks enthusiastic coperation in the oppression of the Palestinians. Any new Government will not be so accomodating of maintaining the prison that is Gaza.

Matt Pryor

So you're saying that the next Egyptian government should allow unlimited arms and personnel into the Gaza strip so that neo-Nazi HAMAS can renew their war with Israel?

That sounds distinctly like a recipe for a second Shoah. Cheered on by you and all the other champions of "palestinian" rights.

And when the HAMAS come marching down my road, I'll have you to thank.

victor jara 67

Oh spare us Matt. Why do Zionists always use holocaust analogies to justify their oppression and bloody excesses

michael G

Victor, let me simplify this for you.

Whatever the hell the Egyptians decide, we will not allow the Islamists to destroy Israel. Whatever you say, think, or do. You have been warned.

Patricia Shaw

Matt, if Israel allowed the US and its cronies to engage intelligently with it's neighbours, ESP now,instead of bombing, assassinating and demonising ghem, it would not have so much to be worried about. Zionist arrogance and bloody mindedness is as outdated as the regional despots it supports. The future belongs to educated, globally aware, ambitious young people, ideology, racism, superiority and hatred is for biggots.

Erica Blair

Look out your window now Matt, here comes Hamas.

Too late, they're under your bed with the Reds.

Patricia Shaw

Michael, you are the enemy now.

This is the time for the people of Israel to stand up and be counted, to fight the poison within, to find peace with those from whom they have stolen so much and common cause with their progressive, aspiring peers in the region who want to turn their backs on zealots, ideology and racism, on both sides.

This is a time opportunity for everyone in the region, including the people of Israel.

Matt Pryor

Substitute "Zionists" for "Jews" in the above comments by Patricia Shaw, Erica Blair, victor jara 67, and feel the hair on the back of your neck rise.

Dark times are upon us.

Patricia Shaw

'How to Manage the Middle East'

Or

'Social Democracy, My Role in its Downfall'

by Melanie Phillips

1) Ensure U.S. keeps maleable local despots in power, preferably for all eternity.

2) Get America to reward their silence on Israeli aggression with yet more arms and assistance. When their people complain, import the tear gas.

3) To enable resulting election fraud and commit more human rights abuses, get more gas.

4) If locals manage to revolt, quickly blame it on completely unreasonable extremists and blame anyone with a beard

5) Make sure revolutionaries' hatred of Israel is interpreted as ideological anti semitism. Never allow western media to connect it with Israeli colonialism and brutality towards the Palestinians.

6) If despots complain, remind them what happened to Iraq, mutter darkly that same thing will happen to them if they don't shut up, while smiling sweetly and
pretending Neocons' agenda had nothing to do with you

7) Exploit situation to stoke fear and fury in the US and secure even more financial and military gifts at US taxpayer expense.

KERCHING !

Patricia Shaw

Matt, Speak for yourself and don t taint Israelis with your own preudices.

The vast majority of Jews are NOT racists or zealots.

They're the ones who have to bring about a New Israel, in the recognition that the shift to democracy in the region demands a fundamental shift in strategy at home.

Matt Pryor

People that stand up for Israel are the "enemy" now? I didn't realise I was commenting on an Iranian publication. Anyway it's interesting to see just how demented the far left are these days.

Good luck to Egyptians, I hope and pray it turns out well for them.

Erica Blair

'Matt Pryor
February 2nd, 2011 2:37pm
Report this comment
Substitute "Zionists" for "Jews" in the above comments by Patricia Shaw, Erica Blair, victor jara 67, and feel the hair on the back of your neck rise.

Dark times are upon us.'

Martin Bright is a Zionist, he is not Jewish. For you to replace "Zionist" with "Jew" is anti-semitic.

Matt Pryor

I suggest "Erica Blair" reads Martin Luther King's opinions on the matter:

"... You declare, my friend; that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist'. And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of G-D's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- this is G-D's own truth.

"Anti-Semitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic, and ever will be so."

http://www.internationalwallofprayer.org/A-022-Martin-Luther-King-Zionism.html

Matt Pryor

Apologies, I have since learned that the above was not what King said. What he actually said was:

"Don't talk like that. When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism"

Regardless of Martin Bright's political opinions or his religion, when people use "Zionist" as an insult they mean Jews. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you may not understand this or you may be in denial of it. The forces that Israel faces know it all too well.

Patricia Shaw

I wonder how many Jews watching tonight s programme about ultra orthodox settlers will find anything at all to associate with.

Merlyn

The rise of the Muslim Brotherhood is well laid out in the following website.

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html

TrevorsDen

Democracy has a chance to flower because Bush and the US removed despotism from Iraq and have isolated Iran. Libya too has given up its atomic bomb programme.

Democracy has a chance in the middle east.