History starts again

Keith Kahn-Harris

So Melanie did you at least enjoy the British success at the olympics? I mean might it not be worth celebrating something for a change?

Michael Woodman

"It is the behaviour of a culture whose back is broken – and from Moscow to Tehran, our enemies know it." Indeed, indeed - this becomes ever more evident with each passing day. The EU appears to be leading the way in how not to conduct foreign affairs. Goodness knows what havoc they'll cause once they have EU foreign policies that we all have to follow.

Oh, and welcome back Melanie, we've been missing you!

Nice Jewish Girl

Welcome back, Melanie!

David McAdam

What has happened to a once courageous, stoical, and proud nation that produced warriors the esteemed calibre of Cromwell, Nelson and Churchhill et all? What do we now have instead? Milliband v Putin.

Ron Todd

Might not be the time for warriers. I see no way that we could intervene millitarily with anything like enough force to make a difference. Given the location I cannot see how even the Americans could get a big force in place without substantial risk.

The EU would be a wast of time as a military force. The southern european countries would not put up a fight. Italy would wait to see who was winning then join that side and France would surender before the snow melted off the Russian boots. It would be us Germany and the Scandinavians.

Our priority as it should have been thirty tears ago should be to reduce dependancy on imported energy. Even if the greens do not like it we have lots of coal.

Lech Konrad Powichrowski

Melanie,

your article makes honour to the very political sense, which seems to me innate to the British. I also appreciated the article by Sir Christopher Meyer in The Times, even if I disagreed with him in detail, but it was so refershing to hear something different than usual complains about dependency of the European countries from the Russian oil and gas. We've stepped fully into a war that nobody's given the name, but it started already a couple of years ago, and all is about the only genuine trump Russia has to divide Europe, namely hydrocarbons. The British are the nation, I hope, to understand instinctively from where the threat is likely to come - contrary to the Continentals, they were last invaded successfully in 1066. The French and the Germans suffered a recent crunch of all their beliefs in 1940 and 1945, not so a long time ago thus they had not time to get accustommed to the bitter taste of acrushing defeat. The Russians never experienced it, that's why I expect they will resume a series of revenge wars for rebuilding their lost empire. The entire Russian nation, I assure you, as I work and live in Russia , is in full heart with Putin's and Medvedev's venture to restore the Russian empire. There's a cost for everybody to build an empire but the Russians don't care. Regardless how weak in economical and military terms is Russia, the West's resilience is in its lowest point. Hope that there will be another Churchill to convince us all that the resistance is not hopeless (look, it's surprising to state obvious things like the enormous discrepancy between EU's and Russia's economic strength). There are simple things to do, everybody knows. We're in an undeclared war and earlier we'll understand it the better we'll react. Believe me, the Russians, all without exception, consider us the Europeans weaklings. This is not a good starting position. Best regards and God bless you. Conrad.

Augustus

Yes, welcome back Melanie.

I think I would prefer the Russian bear holding the oil can than an Islamist extremist. Once we realise that Russia is no longer a communist state but a capitalist one, we ought to be able to relax. Co-operation is better than confrontation. Put Nato back in his kennel and let him bark at Islamist extremists instead, they are the real threat to the world. By all means criticise the Russians, but don't start fighting them, or they'll shut off the oil and gas supplies, and then we'll all be in the SH one T.

Yosef

Yet again, another wonderful article.

Welcome back Melanie

Paul Hill

The problem isn't one of the West being too soft it's one of the West being too stupid

The provocations and terrorism in the areas of Ossetia have been going on for some time.They are orchestrated by people like the interior Minister Merbishvili ,partly to destabilise the Georgian Government,partly for the hell of it and partly to get people like Melanie to cartoon the issue as that dreadful Bear breaking loose again and pour even more(military)aid into the area on top of the $67 million they've had so far from Britain and the U.S

Russia has used every legitimate avenue to resolve the issue diplomatically for the past 18 months.

We've ignored them.

The U.S is too busy elsewhere.We don't have any Diplomatic clout and the Eudoesn't know what day of the week it is.

On the 7th August Georgian army and paramilitary units flattened Kurta,Avnevi and Tamarasheni with mortars and artillery.

It went unreported in the West

The rest is history as they say

Incidentally the belief of the Georgian armed forces in their cause is well illustrated by their headlong flight from the area

History isn't actually about cramming as much of Melanie's rather one dimensional predjudices and limited knowledge into a magazine article as an editor will permit-it's usually a bit more complicated

Joe Strummer

Why do I just laugh whenever I see the idiot Milliband on televison.? He is just too preposterous for words.

Herbert Thornton

I am sorry Melanie, but your accusation about Russia of carrying out "nuclear terrorism" in Britain sounds somewhat like hyperbole - surely the word "terrorism" should be reserved to things like the London Underground and bus bombings?

I also think it is a great mistake to declare that Russia is "intrinsically weak". We should remember what Khruschev said about Mao Tse Tung's description of the U.S.A. as a "paper tiger" - he reminded the world that the paper tiger had nuclear teeth. The supposedly "intrinsically weak" Russian Bear also has nuclear teeth.

It is of course prudent to consider terrorism including nuclear terrorism, but if and when a nuclear device is detonated in Britain, the idea of it being done by Russian agents is unthinkable. On the other hand the possibility of it being carried out by Islamic terrorists is frighteningly real. In that respect the World Trade Centre, Beslan, the London Underground and many other events around the world are conspicuous reasons for the entire civilised world to realise that not just Russia, but China and India too, are natural allies of both western Europe and the U.S.

I side entirely with Augustus.

WhoCares

I am never sure when reading Melanie Phillips' whether she proposes to cultivate incoherent rant simply as an art form for its own sake or she actually believes it to be a platform for a political reform.

Ray

Melanie's observations are largely correct. However, I can't help thinking that had Britain and the United States not squandered so much political capital chasing utopian delusions in Kosovo then we might have been in a better position to stand up to Russian revanchism. Likewise, the Islamic fanaticism that our misbegotten sojourn into Iraq has both fuelled and distracted us from confronting more effectively.

Saul Starozinsky

Dear Mellanie!
Thanks God Youve returned! During all the crisis i was waitting for Yours commentary.. And now You once more proved that You are the best!!!

Geoff M

The Wests disgraceful treatment of Kosovans (the real ones, not the Albanian muslim immigrants) handed Russia a free pass to repeat the Wests grotesque abuse of intenational law.

Sauce for the gander?

I never thought I would say this but I am enjoying seeing Russia humiliate the EU.

At least the Russians look after their own whereas I think the EU is intent on becoming the new Caliphate - Turkeys accession will seal that fate.

Seeing the likes of Millipede and Broon running around damning their formerly Marxist blood brothers is also sweet!

Barry Larking

I am reminded of a story I was read concerning the novelist Joseph Conrad who, on hearing the news that Russia had had a revolution in 1917 was quoted as saying "Leopards do not change their spots."

For all sorts of reasons the west must end its dependance on oil.

Roy

To repeat some others; thank god your back Melanie. Your reemergence is like coming up for air after a long dive and getting a lung full of life giving oxygen at long last. To be able to get a good assessment of today's world affairs from someone we know and appreciate is indeed a tonic.

Frank Pulley

Who Cares

More to the point I would guess that nobody here cares whether you care or not or what 'you are sure of'. If you stick around you might learn something, but if you have read Melanie's articles before - and this one - and still don't get it, may I suggest that you are as think as two short planks and are wasting both yours and our time by commenting here.

Robin

Frank, Frank,

You mustn't refer to "WhoCares" as "think as two short planks".

It's - well, rather, he's - "thick".

The thing about short planks is that they're pretty much useless for anything worthwhile.

"WhoCares"? Whatever.....

phil

Who Cares-do you actually have a point of any interest to make or are you just one more of those that get off by making anonymous and gratuitous insults --welcome back Melanie ,rested and ready .

phil

Greed and weakness by the west allow the Russians to threaten us from a position of weakness compared to the power of the west -Europe is teeming with the new nouveau riche from Moscow .no not the everyday Russian ,just those that have used their earlier power to make that wealth -send them back ,take away their visas and see how soon Russia changes its tune ,the powerful ones now have something to lose ,and wrap their notice in a copy of "flower of Scotland"

logdon

Like many other comments, thank god you're back. Since you've been gone I've been banned from the Times (or so I think, they do not inform just a big fat nothing to the mildest of comment) so really it'll be nice to the usual of being banned from a site of someone who at least knows what she's talking about. In this instance, however I'm with Russia who have been the EU and US whipping boy for far too long. The appalling double standards of Kosovo, Cuban Missile crisis and encroaching Marxism in South and Central America, but, hey if Russkie tries it on all hell let's loose. Then there's Miliband's juvenile antics? By the way on another tack how about the illegal extra EU money to the PA?

Lance Grundy

“Those who…fail to distinguish between aggression and self-defence. NATO is defensive; Russia is aggressive.”

Sorry Melanie, N.A.T.O. was not acting in “self-defence” when it bombed Serbia. It was engaging in aggressive war-making against a sovereign country. It is not therefore purely “defensive.”

You also say “N.A.T.O. exists merely to defend free societies against attempts to destroy them.” I’m not really sure what you are saying here. Surely if N.A.T.O. is “defensive” it can only defend ‘free societies’ that are members of the defensive alliance. However, you seem to be implying that N.A.T.O. exists to defend ‘free societies’ per se - in which case it would be justified in waging aggressive, first-strike, wars all over the world against any countries it considered were attempting to destroy what it had deemed to be a ‘free society.’ Sounds pretty “aggressive” to me. I can see how the Russians might get the wrong idea.

Jon

Kosovo set the precedent for altering borders by force so it is not particularly surprising that the Russians have taken a leaf out of Nato's book.
It is notable however, how many commentators are still quite unable to move on from an old fashioned Cold War mindset with regard to Russia.
Does the UK really have any stategic interests in Georgia? to the extent that we would be willing to send out troops to defend the Sakashvili regime (which is what Nato membership would mean). I rather think not.
We are in a new era and now live in a multi polar world and we need to grasp this reality.

Robbit

Welcome back Melanie!
And what a comeback - 4 more excellent articles in two days!

nicodemus31

"As Meyer says, we could start showing it we mean business by throwing out all its intelligence officers currently swanning around London."

How very gung-ho. Wonder where he picked up an attitude like that? I'm sure Putin, Medvedev & Co will order an immediate withdrawal of troops & open the oil & gas valves fully when they see that Great Britain "means business".

What rot. The conflict in South Ossetia & Abkhazia reminds me of Gabriel Garcia Marquez's famous response when asked about the Falklands War: "Two bald men fighting over a comb".

john mcdonald

Oh so wrong this time Melanie

Georgia killed 2000 of the Osetias capital city - an unprovoked attack planned by the USA who have a marine contingent in the country "training " the Georgians - No Melanie this is the USA of old playing its old world power games - and the reasons - pick any one of a half dozen - you let your prejudices get the better of you on this one "M" I am disapointed normally you are on the ball.

Tim lee

John MacDonald

The figure of 2000 killed in South Ossetia by Georgian forces is widely banded about but according to Human Rights watch has not been verified. It might just be propaganda by the Russians. Anyway, the situation is that we should be suspicious of the Russians based on their not so recent past. How many of the Baltic and East European states lately under the thrall of the Soviets look forward to the reawakening of the Russian baleful presence ..well only those "Russian" stooges in those countries that claim that they want closer ties with Russia..unlike the majorities who look to the west for reassurance and protection.

field

1. The project to extend NATO and give it un-NATO related tasks e.g. in Afghanistan was foolish in conception and execution.

2.Democratic countries do and SHOULD accept that disaffected parts of their states' territories can secede e.g. Slovakia, Scotland, Catalonia...Is anyone saying it would be right to keep these areas belonging to states they don't want to belong to?

3. But democracies must battle against the use of ethnic cleansing and use of violence to alter borders. So Russia must be punished. How does the EU punish Russia over Georgia? It...I'm not sure it even issued a condemnation.

No, we must show Russia, for every transgression a negative will follow and we should ensure that we defend those countries that can be defended.

Paul

"So Melanie did you at least enjoy the British success at the olympics? I mean might it not be worth celebrating something for a change?"

How helpful. Panem et circenses.

Leaving aside argument-free trolls like "WhoCares", it's amazing how many are taking up cudgels for Russia. Probably those whose hearts sank when the wall came down.

As Melanie has often pointed out, the Western ruling classes are no longer serious about anything much, save their own self-regard. The consequences of this are described passim in her writing.

Dave M

I think, on this occasion, Melanie is reading the situation regarding Putin with some contradiction. For a start, I recall quite clearly Melanie was dead against the U.S. recognising Kosovo as an independent State and, as it happens, Russia was also opposed to such independence. It was the U.S. and E.U. that made this catastrophic political misjudgement, against Christian Serbia, not Russia. So, it wasn't Russia here that was backing the Islamic cause in Europe, but America. As for a new Cold War, yes, we should be very worried as it seems to me we are entering very dangerous, uncertain terrain. Russia is a proud, nationalistic country that is now regaining its feet as some sort of global power. Therefore, Russia won't tolerate being surrounded by NATO forces on its borders, just as America wouldn't tolerate a threat to its own security when Krushchev located missiles on Cuba. Next, I think Melanie's point about some link between USSR Bolshevism (or simply modern Russia) and radical Islam is open to debate. If Russia is pushed into a corner by the West, yes, I agree, Moscow could well end up looking for allies amongst Arab Middle Eastern States. This is because ex Soviet States such as Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Bulgaria e.t.c. have not only cold shouldered Russia, but seem to harbour strong anti-Russian sentiment - an obsession over the crimes of Stalinism they refuse to let go of. Seeing as America appears to be exploiting such sentiment and even backing Georgia, this could push the Kremlin away from the West, away from democracy and somewhere towards either Asia or the Middle East. Historically, however, Russian anti-semitism isn't quite so straightforward as imagined. Lenin himself was part Jewish, as was Trotsky. Neither is Russia an Islamic country but Christian Orthodox. It was also Russia that spilt endless blood during the invasion of Berlin to rescue the thousands of Slavs, Poles, Jews and Ukranians in Hitler's death camps. To the Russian frame of mind, the encirclement of NATO on its borders, overall distrust and such acts as the removal of its WW3 memorials to fallen troops in the Baltics is a huge affront.

Dave M

As Jon notes: "Does the UK really have any stategic interests in Georgia? to the extent that we would be willing to send out troops to defend the Sakashvili regime....."
I've lived in Russia and I've also lived in Baltic States such as Estonia and Latvia. I can clarify that the amount of anti-Russian sentiment in those neighbouring countries is remarkable. It may be true modern Russia falls somewhat short of the ideals of a free, democratic society but, by the same token, it is far far removed from the times of Stalin and Kruschev. Yet former USSR member States seemingly cannot forgive the crimes of Stalinism and hard line communism and this has given rise to bitterness and ill-feeling towards Russia as a whole. There is also a naieve conception of the U.S.A. as the good guy and Russia as the bad guy. Yet America's invasion of Iraq without specific U.N. approval goes way beyond the intervention Medvedev sanctioned in Georgia. My point is this, however: For NATO to exploit the current anti-Russian mentality that is gaining ground in the Ukraine and Georgia is extremely dangerous. It's dangerous because ethic tensions and post Soviet neurosis in this part of the world could very easily explode. There is a feeling amongst some journalists in the West (not Melanie, I don't think), that a show of force by the U.S. in places such as Georgia or the Ukraine will lead to Russia backing down and a quick diplomatic victory for Bush or McCaine. Should such a situation arise, say, in the Ukraine, we could all suddenly find ourselves in a Hot War, instead of a Cold War. The present U.S. policy of getting directly involved with factions on Russia's borders strikes me as extremely dangerous and unpredicatable. In fact, I believe we may well be entering a new phase of Cold War that's far more likely to become hot than the ideological facedown that characterised the former conflict. You also have to ask yourself whether the Cuban crisis of the sixties would have led to all out nuclear war had Mccaine been in office and not Kennedy.