The distant sound of breaking glass

Tiberius

I would turn your penultimate paragraph round a little, Melanie, and say that if a Tory Government does not deal with the existing encroachment (and I can see no other one doing so), social disorder will follow. I'm not sure anything the defenders of the realm do will increase the pace of encroachment - it's moving apace as things are.

edster

congratulations to Austria for waking up

Fabio P.Barbieri

The Berlusconi government in Italy is, however barely, on the right side. Berlusconi himself recently publicly compared Ahmedinajad to Hitler, provoking a public protest by the Iranian government. Of course, the European left, with Zapatero in the van and the Italian opposition not bothered by the fact that they are defaming their country and people, are all screaming fascism and racism.

We are in for bad days. The left is becoming increasingly fanatical and deaf to reason. There are people in my own family with which it is literally not safe to talk about anything except the weather. How did we come to this?

Ron Todd

I know a lot of prople that would happily admit to being well to the left of centre who are as worried as the rest off us about mass immigration. Islamic imigration in particular.

I think that it is greatly to the credit of the people of this country that there is not more support for the far right.

soupy

how can we be so sure that these parties struggling in defence of christian europe are in fact "fascist" and/or neo-nazi? where's the proof?

Gareth

As the neo-Nazi parties gain support, they are bound to become more moderate. If, for example, there are 10,000 fascists in Britain and the BNP has 10,000 members, they could all be fascists. If the membership increases to 100,000, the fascists will be outnumbered by 10 to 1.

Nick Kaplan

Can we please stop being so complicit in defining racist scum like the BNP or the Austrian Freedom Party as the ‘far-right.’ These monsters hate the all those things that those of us on the right hold dear like individual liberty and the rule of law. They are not right wing; they defy political classification under the simple left right divide. It is only the left that define such people as right wing in order to shut down debate by tainting sensible comments from those actually on the right with the suspicion of racist motives.

Jutta Starke

Dear Melanie Phillips
I am Sorry, You are definetly totally wrong. The FPÖ in Austria and the little Party Pro Köln or Vlaams Belang are never Fascists or Nazis/Neonazis. Politically Correct Media name and fight them like this.The Nazis fight them too - they love the Holocaust-Denyer Ahmadinetschad.
Hitler was a friend of the Mufti of Jerusalem, and that was the beginning of the Islamisation of Europe: Bat Ye`or "Eurabia-Land of Islam-land of Dhimmitude"
Straches Party does not fight against foreigners or even muslim People - they fight against Politics, Media and churches, who are responsible for the Islamisation.I get tears in my eyes, because these small Partys are faught by the lefts and the extreme right, just like in a sandwich.
But not you too! Please!
This is a wish from Hamburg

floriangeyer

The collapse of financial markets always wakens the mind of those previously 'drugged'by government largesse paid for with our own money. The marxist agenda of those who rule over us is now exposed,bare of our money that concealed it. Right minded thinkers everywhere know that the answer is definately not the 'mess' of multicultural states,whatever their ethnic group.

anonymous

Dear Europe,

Yes, as are we in America, you too shall reap the whirlwind. By allowing the left to run riot over your culture, economy and government you have invited it. The reason: the left does not want to make your world a better place, they want to fundamentally alter it, to recast it according to their quasi-religious beliefs about economics, society and human nature. They must first tear down the existing order, and they are using islamists and immigrants as tools to hasten their revolution, while hiding behind the impenetrable shield of multiculturalism. Take them at their word at your own peril.

David

I suppose we could call this a Weimarisation process.

The basis of British and American conservatism was evangelical Protestantism. The basis of continental conservatism was Catholicism.

The secularisation of Europe has strongly undermined the possibility of a return to the practical conservatism of old.

The only current alternative to toxic identity obsessed leftism is now the toxic identity obsessed far right.

Andy Gill

My sentiments exactly, Melanie. There is a real democratic deficit in Western Europe these days - and particularly here in the UK where the political class has completely misread the attitudes of ordinary people to culturally unsustianable levels of immigration.

Ramming multi-culturalism down our throats has not worked, and the cracks are beginning to show. Increasing Islamification has angered a historically tolerant population, who are now turning to thugs like the BNP in the hope of reasserting the primacy of the host culture.

steve

Haven't you noticed that it's the left and their "antifa" goon squads(along with Islamic allies) that are playing the role of the Nazis in this historical period? You're repeating the mistake of those who once said "better Hitler than Blum." It is absurd to think that a NS revival is possible, the historical (not to mention the demographic) conditions are completely different today.

Stephen Fox

Jutta Starke's comment is moving, and illustrates how tiny our manoeuvring room is. Anywhere to the right of 'Dave', and we're immediately in trouble, labelled as fanatical racists.
Desperate to avoid that, we have to disown people who want their countries back as we do, but who dare to say so in too forthright a manner.
Fabio: happily my (small)family 'gets it' on the whole but many of those I used to call friends are strangers to me now. It really is like 'Invasion of the Bodysnatchers'.

Horatius

While I agree with Ms Phillip's general thrust, it is exaggerated to call the right wing parties, FPÖ and BZÖ, Neo Nazi. There may be some diehards in the background but the two parties gained 29% mostly as a protest against the centrist grand coalition. Ordinary voters are increasingly worried about loss of control over their lives - particulalry the increasing level of Muslim immigration and the effect of EU policies on the economy.The FPÖ/BZÖ policies are what conservatives would have advocated 30 years ago -Eurosceptic and for strict immigration control. Unfortunately the Conservatives have moved to the centre leaving a vacuum on the right -just as here in the UK.

Fabio P.Barbieri

The people who said that as the fascists gain more votes they must become more moderate should consider Hitler with his progression from two to forty-two per cent. Sure became more moderate, didn't they?

These men are thugs. They are distrusted for a reason. I have seen them and spoken with them; if unhappy conservatives deserted by mainstream politicians resort to them, they will abuse and betray them exactly as they did in Italy, Germany and several other countries. Don't allow yourselves to be deceived; the fact that Scylla wants to eat us alive does not mean that Charybdis has suddenly become vegetarian.

Daniel

The deplorable academic tradition of bundling together parties which the Left finds unpleasant as the "far right" needs to be challenged vigorously. Some of this unpleasantness is seeing its own ugliness in the mirror and creating a fiction to feel better about itself.
The real Nazi party was actually leftwing and most of its racist rhetoric was directed against the Jews as the secret masterminds behind Capitalism. The Jews in Nazi Germany were not outsiders but were the most well integrated ethnic group in Europe at the time. The Nazis hated them for their success so the Nazi hatred was closer to class resentment than race resentment. An historic anti-semitism is inherent in leftwing ideology ranging from Karl Marx to its presentday ranting against Israel. This has nothing to do with "the right" and that the Left has been so successful in embedding the notion that National Socialism is rightwing speaks volumes for their Gramsci-esque control of academia. This fiction should not be repeated here.
Much the same could be said about the Left's favourite insult about Rightists "fascist". Oswald Mosley, who was a Labour MP and socialist before converting to Fascism, called it the "hard centre" which is a more accurate description than Far Right. Mussolini and his followers came from the Left. Perhaps the "far right" should be called the "dark side of socialism" or "socialism's dirty secret".
As you say, Melanie, the Left has used its anti-far right (and by association any sort of genuine Rightwing thought)rhetoric to close down legitimate debate. This must be strongly countered by not by using the Left's own bogus terminology.

Byron in Wahroonga

Dismayed that you of all people would so frivolously toss around 'Nazi', Melanie. No wonder the menace of that word has steadily been diluted. And posting a pic inferring the subject is giving a Hitler salute? Please enjoy your break, I'm looking forward to the return of the level-headed Melanie we all admire.

Russ Green

Melanie you are completely wrong, please take a look at these websites, you will hopefully see what is really happening www.cpexposed.com
www.tpuc.org

N

I'm not sure what to say, one person commented and asked if we really know if these groups are neo-nazis, that's a good point. On the one hand neo-nazis and a pro-hate regime isn't a good thing, but if they are the only ones willing to stand up to the muslim encroachment.... Good for them? I guess the situation could be viewed like that of the US in WW2 making deals with nazi scientists to keep them safe and free from prosecution if they handed over their knowledge and worked for the US instead (Operation paperclip). The idea behind it was to make a deal with the devil to save heaven (from the other devil USSR). So i guess if we want to "live" past the muslim encroachment we really do have to sell our souls.

o.u.

soupy re: "are these [white] nationalist parties actually neo-Nazi?"

The BNP in England and the Swedish Democrats definitely have strong neo-Nazi roots, although both have rebranded themselves in the last decade, dropping ther high-profile anti-semtism. (As Nick Griffin, the new leader of the BNP said to the old, Tyndall, "The many photographs of you in neo-nazi uniform ... are a public relations handicap for the party." http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/jul/20/otherparties.thefarright )

It's documented that Hans-Christian Strache wants to legalise Nazi symbols (illegal in Germany & Austria), and has held memorial services honouring SS veterans.

And quoting from http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2005/austria.htm :

"Under its new chairman, Heinz-Christian Strache, the FPÖ reverted to being a radical opposition party and intensified its racist rhetoric, satisfying neo-Nazis both within and outside Austria. Since most remaining FPÖ politicians have an antisemitic background (such as former membership in student fraternities and pan-Germanic groups), antisemitic and Nazi apologetics increased in 2005."

"In an interview to the Viennese weekly Falter in March, Strache said it was obvious that the Republic of Austria was not responsible for Nazi crimes. He labeled deserters from the Wehrmacht ‘perpetrators’ and saw no difference between the fascist Austrian regime, the Nazi regime and the Allied occupation [...] "

Yes, they are basically neo-Nazi.

Allan Sharp

Looks like Austrians are seeing with their own eyes that what the EU tells them really ain't so. And how many millions of Turks do they want or 'need'?

Joe Strummer

It is a truly sad day when ordinary voters all over Europe feel the only way to get their collective voice heard is through these fascist nutters.

The suffocation by the EU, political correctness, unfettered and un-controlled immigration, the loss of individual civil liberties, the ratcheting up the police state, surveillance cameras, etc, etc.

The "mainstream" political parties have not only lost touch with European electorates but are on some distant planet from ordinary people.

The answers aren't simple but addressing some of the above by the political elites just might bring some sanity back before its too late.

Frank Pulley

John B

"Yes it is very hypocritical of that die hard communist Gerry Grable to decry in his publication "searchlite" that Nick Griffin has and uses the power to dismiss any member when he so obviously has needed that power and used it to dismiss the very type of people you decry."

His name is Gerry Gable not Grable (don't get Hollywood tits and bum movies mixed up with serious politics). Gerry has been one of the most successful investigative journalist in this country, both in print and on TV. He worked for the London Programme (LWT) at the height of its success in the 1970s, working with people like Barry Cox, Martin Short and John Shirley in exposing villainy. His assistance to NSY in investigations in the bombing of synagogues in the 1970s was invaluable to people such as "The Old Grey Fox" Bert Wickstead who successfully investigated ant-semitic groups at that time.
He also did excellent work in exposing organised crime and its connections with the corrupt police cabal that almost destroyed New Scotand Yard in the 1960s/1970s. Do not underestimate the veracity of Mr Gable's statements. Whatever his politics, I can vouch for his integrity, which is unassailable, John B.

The pedigree of the BNP is somewhat less transparent and while I have never hidden my hatred for subversive communism, masquerading in myriad guises; neither have any sympathy for right wing extremists masquerading as patriots. I monitored their earlier manifestations under various labels and their noxious activities for too long to have any doubts about their odious aims and strategies; they are inimical to Britain.

More importantly it is extremely sad that the Conservative Party has strayed so far from the people it once represented as the party of traditional British values, that people are looking for alternatives to the current egregious crooks in the Government. I hope they will not be gulled into thinking that BNP is anything other than a band of thugs, straining to get into jackboots. I hope instead they urge the Tories to get their act together before taking over Government in 2010.

Horatius

There's an excellent, perceptive article on this issue by Daniel Johnson in the New York Sun.

http://www.nysun.com/opinion/dubious-defense-of-democracy/86832/

If we had proper conservative parties in Europe (rather than centrist "conservatives")there would be little problem with the far right.

Frank P

ndm

"The increased influence of these ultra-right parties is a direct consequence of influential columnists like Melanie Phillips providing moral succour to them."

Utter bollocks! There is no alternative way of describing your nonsense in that post and all the others from you I have bothered to read: not too many just recently - I gave up, and you normally get the old scroll solution, but as it was only 5 lines I decided to check whether you were still 'at it'. You are.

john doe

I'm sorry to see a number of BNP cockroaches spreading their spiritual disease all over the thread.

Hadrian

People never learn, do they? Replacing one bunch of thugs for another lot won't get rid of the thuggery! It'd be comforting to think it's just something in the Germanic genetic code that makes them turn to 'the Strong Leader' but then, you look at the Russians and the French before them and you realise it's part of the fallen human condition. Look for false, human messiahs and bring about utopia by human potential being realised in (political) self righteous effort. Result- fantaticism.
Oddly enough many of us anti E.U. folk in the U.K. are such precisely because we don't wish to be formally linked to these extremes, nor do we wish to see our society and culture further invaded and swamped.

D Gray

'If this truly frightful outcome is to be avoided, it is imperative that social democratic politicians in Britain and Europe wake up from their trance and realise just what it is they have to defend, and against whom'......Well they will never do this so where do people who want to fight against the demon of islamism go?LibLabCon.....?

Straydingo

ndm,

why is that left always attack the person vs. the argument.

is it possible for you to consider that your views may be wrong - are you objective enough to consider an alternative opinion?

Byron in Wahroonga

***the increased influence of these ultra-right parties is a direct consequence of influential columnists like Melanie Phillips providing moral succour to them***

Ahem. Melanie has condemned the Freedom Party, NDM. Seek help, for your comprehension problems.

Russ Green

NuLabour have "with poltical correctness" dictated to all of us what words we can use, what jokes we are allowed to tell, they are about to force us all to carry identity cards, they have already forced us all to accept a multicultural society, without even asking wether the people actually wanted it or not, they have banned us from smoking, they spy on our ever move, they threaten people with the loss of their jobs if they join a political party that disagrees with them, they are killing countless innocent Iraqi's in a war that the vast majority of our people was totally against, they silence anyone that disagree's with them, and there are so many more of our freedoms about to be taken away, when they eventually force us into europe, again against our will. if this isn't 'fascism' please tell me what is,

field

Germany has shown the correct way to deal with these matters: having a strong office for the protection of the constitution, which can investigate and recommend for banning parties which are using democracy as a cloak to advance anti-constitutional programmes (whether Nazi or Communist).

Only democrats should be allowed to stand in democratic elections.

Austria doesn't appear to have a similar mechanism.

jose garcia

The increased influence of these ultra-right parties is a direct consequence of leftist traitors like the MSM media , most of the politicians and useful idiots justifying islamic terrorism as freedom fighters, imposing a new social structure without any lasting moral references but a nihilist humanism,

destroying a country and a democracy from within

(diluting national identity thorough inmigration, destroying morality by continous smearing of cristian faith (when was the last time you heard something about catholicism in the MSM apart from paedofile priests? or the Da Vinci Code smears about the nature of Jesus)+ the undermining of christian institutions like marriage and traditional families.

high taxation, removing power from people to the state, unaccountable supranational institutions like the UN, or EU.
plus the joining up together with anyone who can help them redefine the country socially, like gay pressure groups, and islamic extremism being unchecked , unchallenched and promoted in the name of freedom while constant gagging, ridiculing of anyone who doesnt toe the new LIBERAL lines

a goverment/media who is more worried about the rights of criminals, terrorists, and islamic fundamentalists trying to change a country from within

cant complain when similar ideologies with a very diferent agenda grow, because what is the difference between fascism and the extreme leftwing politics of nowdays?

just the content of their ideas, i see no diference in their moral equivalence or their methods.

Archie

Well, indeed so, Miss Phillips; but where is your typical indigenous working-class voter to turn?

JohnW

Russ,

Well said, Sir. Fascism by stealth is still Fascism at the end of the day.

You really have to hand it to Liebour - their cunning is impressive. Oh that they could channel this talent into wiping the floor with our Islamist enemies.

Consul-At-Arms

I've quoted you and linked to you here: http://consul-at-arms.blogspot.com/2008/10/re-distant-sound-of-breaking-glass.html

EC

" .so where do people who want to fight against the demon of islamism go?LibLabCon..?"

SNP?

o.u.

"Thirty percent for people who portray national socialism as innocuous," wrote the commentator Hans Rauscher yesterday, "Who crawl around in forests with neo-Nazi mates, who are surrounded by skinheads; who campaign against foreigners; make common cause with the European extreme right; toy with antisemitism; campaign against Muslims, and develop contacts with the Serbian Radical party whose leader, Vojislav Seselj, is in the dock at the war crimes tribunal in The Hague. Austria is tops in Europe again."

(from http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/ )

john doe

Isaac Brown: Nothing is too vulgar to describe the BNP and anyone who supports it. It is rotten to the core and disgust and contempt is the only sane response to it. What part of 'Jew hater' do you not understand? And please don't say they have left that behind. A leopard does not change its spots. And having a Jewish councillor on board means nothing. There are plenty of self-hating Jews for them to recruit.
I understand your concern to salvage British culture. But I do wonder what's left of it. And how many white Anglo- Saxons are there left who haven't addled their brains with too much alcohol, TV and sport? Is there anything left worth preserving?

john doe

Russ Green said "they are killing countless innocent Iraqi's in a war that the vast majority of our people was totally against"

There is no war in Iraq right now but a process of post war reconstruction for the good of the Iraqi people. To say that countless innocents are being killed by British troops is totally insane and beyond reproach. The killing there is Muslim on Muslim, Sunni on Shiite and vice versa.And not just in Iraq. Can't you see that?

phil

"congratulations to Austria for waking up"
edster yes and tomorrow it will be probably you they are after .Are you a Christian ,Jew,Homosexual ,even a pacifist ,perhaps slightly mentally impaired ? if so you had better watch out -it will be your turn next and people like those that write here will not be there to help you.

john doe

Bertie Bert: All very nice indeed. Can't argue with any of it. Hitler pretty much covered all that too plus building the autobahns, hospitals, improving health care, banning smoking in public places, planting forests and so on. Fascism is very attractive to a frustrated and angry people. And that is exactly Melanie's point....the BNP will fill the vacuum and probably do all these fine things. But the price to be paid? Just look at history.

o.u.

I was going to reply to the BNP supporters bertie bert, Craig Pond, and Isaac Brown, pointing out their lies and the vile nature of their party, but perhaps in some cases it's better to let them speak and befoul themselves.

It's unusual to see such a collection of stupidity mixed with low cunning. I think this is one of the defining traits that I've noticed in the modern BNP.

Rev Sean Ursus

Once again the tin-pot journo dictators define anything remotely right wing as Nazis or anything "White" as fascist? The only Nazis are the Lib-Lab-Cons that seek to destroy Britain and its long glorious culture! Shame on you for not having the stomach to tell the truth and roll on the day when the BNP run the show all we need do is let the Lib-Lab-Con buffoons carry on as they are doing!

phil

Why is it every so often this column gets besieged by BNP supporters .who sends them ? who do they think they will convince? Some I accept are merely frustrated people who genuinely want a better Britain ,but have been indoctrinated into believing they are on a path of righteousness-Millions were deluded by hitler,and millions more paid the ultimate price .Ask again who leads you all and what their history is -leopards do not change their spots ,so if you want a better Britain ,pressure the main parties and do not stop until they listen -at least you will get something done rather than waste your time .Hugh T we have been through this before I know and I accept you mean well ,but many of your co-voters do not and exhibit their feelings well here -we reject them and I hope eventually you will too.Your colleague rev ursus ,what church accomodates views like his ? but methinks he is a joker or maybe a black bear (ursus)

o.u.

For those who are interested in information about the history and current nature of the BNP :

http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/uncovered/uncovered.htm

john doe

"Where are all the victims of BNP violence? Where are all the ethnic minority people beaten black and blue by marauding gangs of BNP members?"

That's hardly a good strategy for winning votes. The BNP is playing squeaky clean for now,hiding its barbarity behind a veneer of respectability. Better to get the seats first and the reins of power, and then stick the boot in. And it will not just be Muslims. The kind of nationalism that the BNP represents is brutish and suspect.

JeanRaspail

more trotskyite (neocon) rubbish....

dp damato

Europe is not a nation. It is a conglomeration of many different tribes. A Croat is a Croat. A German is a German. An Englishman is an Englishman, etc. A Latvian and a Spaniard have no emotional connection with one another. There is no sharing of myths, history, national narratives and of course no common language. Right wing parties in Europe always seem to fall back into tapping this tribal identity. The best way they do this is to make contrasts with the other - the Jew, the Muslim, the communist, the Gypsy, the cosmopolitan, the American. European right wing parties need to get beyond this. Playing into tribal grievances only helps the left. Once a right wing tribal party gains power they do not know what to do. There is no positive agenda.
Right wing parties should just look to the Republican Party in the US for the example of a right wing party that is capable of achieving power and doing something with it. Too many right wingers in Europe won't look to America due to the mistaken idea (constantly repeated by the left) that American style politics doesn't apply to Europe.
All conservative parties in Europe should be pro life. The pro life movement affirms Judeo-Christian values, it removes the nasty tag (how can we be uncaring when we want to save the unborn), it highlights the hypocrisy of the left wing "rights" language (what about the rights of the unborn), and it allows for the insertion into the political debate of values language (a proven winner in US elections).
All right wing parties should emphasize the unshakeable belief in free speech (highlights the difference with the PC speech codes of the left), conservative parties should also be in favor of gun rights - (fightback against the EU and the socialist's belief that only gov't bureaucrats are allowed to be in charge of your security), conservatives should be unabashedly patriotic, not nationlistic (anyone who opposes patriotism in the US is un-American - very effective in marginalizing left wing candidates).
Other right wing parties in Europe (especially Holland) assume the mantle of defending the values of the Enlightenment against the Muslim onslaught. This is too airy and intellectual. Sharia law cannot be tolerated because, simply, Muslims must integrate into the social fabric of Europe. They have no other choice. In the US we obligate all immigrants to love our country or leave it. The obligation is on them. If they profess love of country they can stay, if not we don't want them. Finally, all conservative parties in Europe should be pro-Israel. If you really want to tick off the left and send them into fits of hysteria, proclaim your strong support for Israel.

phil

Andrew you need to read your history -the last time the Austrians exercised their rights to discuss immigration the Jews were whipped on the streets of Vienna and made to kneel down and clean the streets ,that was a joy to what happened to them next.Is this what you call democracy ?

phil

from craig pond BNP organiser Stoke As Chair of the Stoke Policy Group I've come up with an idea about winning power. I say we withdraw the right to vote from those still voting for the 3 "main" parties that make up the collective " 9.34 october 1

"ANYONE REMEMBER THIS STUFF BEFORE -echoes of a distant past ?

Hadrian

You cannot destroy fanaticism with fanaticism! Who can people turn to is the repeated plea we hear. Well, the only way to avoid self-righteous idealistic driven madness is returning to this nation's tradition of Protestant Christian faith which slowly but inexorably give us respect for and dignity of the common man, education and social compassion and our democracy with the mother of parliaments.We need the realistic sense of personal sin and short-falling and the resultant humility that goes with it.Only Christianity provides the balance between proper 'idealism' with its sense of the value and sanctity of human life on the one hand and the realism on the other of our human moral frailty.

Michael Sullivan

Good article; but there is just one flaw. The BNP are not fascist; but our present ruling elite most certainly are.

Andrew

Phil,

You need to understand, this is Europe 2008, not 1930s Germany.

If we thought more carefully about history, understood what happened and why. We could learn from it. Then, we would never have ended up in this situation.

Nationalism is not a dirty word.

Sergey

The last conference in Brussels on immigration and islamisation of Europe, organized by Vlaam Belang and other euroskeptics, invited Bat Ye'or as a guest speaker, and she had a warm reception. How this can be reconciled with demonizing European nationalists as Nazi sympathizers? Antisemitism is now a speciality of the left, not of the right, and of liberal elites, not of unwashed masses. So the fears of right-wing populism are out of date and mostly paranoid. If for return to normalcy Europe needs a brief feat of nationalist madness, let be so.

phil

Andrew .you will have noted that I for one never write to you with insults and I have in the past acknowledged that some of what you suggest is what many people would like to be on the agenda of the main parties -most of us indeed are fed up with the behaviour of the militant Islamists ,but I think that is where we part -we have no agenda for repatriation and the mark it puts on perfectly decent Muslim citizens .We do not have leaders who have been on trial for racism ,nor do the main parties have the history that yours does with its previous leaders .Laurie Lee has asked me when do I expect the three to answer our requests -I do not know but I will not give in ,nor will the general public .The next election no doubt will be a platform for all those parties to show whether they are listening to moderate people and their genuine concerns .

I have written to you about Austria and the path that went down in the past and whether it is now or 70 years ago is irrelevant.Those that do not learn the lessons of history will no doubt suffer in a similar way . I am not writing as a defender of the Muslim community but as a person who cares what happens to all of us .Your party are the modern descendants of Mosleys party -he was a man with silky words and solutions ,a supporter of hitler and a hater of Jews .The BNP seems to be replacing them with the Moslems ,a larger and easier target -I have no doubt that had they been in Germany in the thirties they would have been the target rather than the Jews as they would have been a larger minority to pick on,.and many more millions to have been murdered- does that make it better ?well in case of any doubt I say no it does not ,nor do I wish to see whether I am proved right in Austria .

I believe you are a young man and I envy that, but as my granddad told me many moons ago "I wish I was your age and knew what I know now " I didn't know what he meant then but I do now . I grew up as a youngster who cared passionately that the world would be a perfect place ,no doubt like you ,but with age and experience I have learned pragmatism and patience -my pragmatism tells me you will achieve nothing whilst attached to the BNP but that you could be a force within the main parties with your obvious passion .

To finish I hope none of this is taken as patronising because that is not my intention ,but as a genuine hope that you will move on and away from an environment of which you may well feel ashamed of later in life .

Frank P

The BNP inherited a reputation that it fully deserves: the fruit of a poisoned tree. No amount of disassociation can rid it of its repugnant and odious beginnings. It needs ripping out by the roots and burned; the ground around it cauterized.

The same with the subversive leftist counter cultural hegemony that has been even more invasive and pernicious.

There is room for everybody to exist and prosper in the vast hinterlands between these two extremes.

A virulent plague on both their houses!

phil

Sergey-do you think Jewish people will feel better because the Muslims have taken precedence in the feelings of hatred ,rather than them-do you think it makes a difference ? I wish the slaughtered millions of many different religions and countries could answer you from their graves .

Perhaps I have too many posts on this thread ,but these comments need to be answered and my friend Adam B who usually answers these kind of posts seems to be away .He has persuaded me that to let things pass assumes we agree .I very much doubt the Bat Yeor would agree with your interpretation nor get comfort that the Jews are not now the target of the right (dubious

john doe

"Antisemitism is now a speciality of the left, not of the right, and of liberal elites, not of unwashed masses."

This is absurd and is pure denial. Right, left, rich, poor----all of them poisoned by the same bigotry and hate. Antisemitism is everywhere like a lethal pathological mental disease. It is already the virulent plague that Frank P refers to and should be treated with extreme prejudice and zero tolerance. And that includes the BNP.

o.u.

Andrew,

How am I meant to feel about those who support a party that was, until recently, openly racist and whose leadership (both Tyndall and Griffin) strongly pushed in their speeches and publications the mad anti-semitic fantasies that have led to the evil of the Holocaust? Either they are ignorant of the true nature of their party, or they know and still support it. I'll leave you to come up with an appropriate phrase to describe such a person.

Your dismissal of the Stop the BNP website as being full of disinformation and lies is weak - please do point out some of the website's alleged falsehoods. Hamas' propaganda concerning Israel and its leaders is easily disproved with basic fact-checking, I challenge you to do the same in this case. I don't think you will be able to, as the historical evidence against the BNP is overwhelming, and I'm amazed that you're trying to argue it all away as propaganda. You are obviously happy to historically revise your party's shameful past.

Russ Green

o.u. You didn't say which Holocaust you were refering to, the one in Germany under Adolf Hitler, Millions of innocent people put to death, The one in Russia under Joseph Stalin, Millions of innocent people put to death,The one in Cambodia under Pol Pot, Millions of innocent people put to death,or the one that is unfolding right noe in Iraq, under Bush, Brown and Blair, God only knows how many innocent people are being and will be put to death, may i suggest you should condemn all atrocitys of mans inhumanity to his fellow man,

o.u.

Russ, sorry not to be clear, I was referring to the one that happened closed to home, the Holocaust of WWII.

Joe Strummer

The sad thing is that the social conditions for the likes of the BNP to exist and flourish have developed.

Uncontrolled immigration has changed vast swathes of this country engendering alienation amongst the indigenous population yet a sinister and strange silence from the mainstream political parties for fear of being branded "racist" on this issue only breeds more suspicion and contempt for the "legitimate" political parties. If the BNP are to be stopped in in their tracks then both Labour and the Tories have to speak up to end this unfettered immigration madness or witness the BNP actually winning seats in the Commons which would have been unthinkable even five years ago.

john doe

Russ Green siad, or should I say spewed:

"o.u. You didn't say which Holocaust you were refering to, the one in Germany under Adolf Hitler, Millions of innocent people put to death, The one in Russia under Joseph Stalin, Millions of innocent people put to death,The one in Cambodia under Pol Pot, Millions of innocent people put to death,or the one that is unfolding right noe in Iraq, under Bush, Brown and Blair, God only knows how many innocent people are being and will be put to death, may i suggest you should condemn all atrocitys of mans inhumanity to his fellow man"

To compare the events in Iraq with the Holocaust is crass ignorance of the most nauseating kind. You need to get past you're idiotic myopia and educate yourself. And I am wondering why I am bothering to address such a moron. Probably a troll.

Andrew

Hmmmm....What happened to my posts (again)?

Several appear to have been removed whilst a number of others have simply failed to appear.

Enjoy your "debate" guys.

Not Andrew

Andrew,

Why have your posts been removed?

I would really like to hear BOTH sides of the story.

Russ Green

Fascist :- someone who believes that their opinion is more important than other peoples opinion, someone who believes they have the authority to snuff out the opinion of anyone who disagrees with their own opinion, someone who oppses democratic discussion, i have this question for whoever deleted the pro BNP comments from this thread,................. who is the fascist now ????

phil

o.u may I say it was a mistake to acknowledge russ green and his thinly veiled anti-Semitic abomination and that word anti -Semitic is one I have rarely used -none of us need address people like this -he cares neither for us nor the unfortunate ones who died in other holocausts -the mental sickness of some people never ceases to amaze me .just a little self gratification -surely he knows another way .
would you BNP members be proud of these words if he is one of you ?

Russ Green

Phil, If only you only knew how completely and utterly wrong you are, i am as far as you could possibly get from a fascist, I hate fascism, I vehemently believe that "eveyone" is fully entitled to freedom of speech and freedom of expression, in the words of Voltaire:- "I may not agree with what you have to say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it" !

bertie bert

Bit pointless bothering to write into this "have your say" anything pro BNP gets deleted, So who are the DICTATORS?

john doe

"I hate fascism, I vehemently believe that "eveyone" is fully entitled to freedom of speech and freedom of expression, in the words of Voltaire:- "I may not agree with what you have to say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it" !

Voltaire was a virulent antisemite...one of the worst in history. I do not think he is the right man to quote when defending free speech.

Russ Green

Well John Doe, i must admit i had no idea that Voltaire was an antisemite, but whether he was or not, I myself am most definately "NOT" an antisemite, in fact i have never even met an antisemite, or at least not knowingly.... and bertie bert, it is obvious to see who the dictators are, and what we have seen here, proves that debate is not only being stifled by these people, but "they" are indeed the undemocratic dictators that they are claiming to be opposed to,

Herbert Thornton

Like Andrew, Not Andrew and Russ Green, I too notice that several posts have been removed.

If free and reasoned comment and discussion is going to be stifled, it will detract very much from the stature of blogs like this - and from the stature of the Spectator.

Jai V

The scribes may dub you the Cassandra of our day-or not. Time will tell. But perhaps it won't be long before they're piping out the Cry of the Valkyries ad nauseam in Austria.

There probably is a lesson in it somewhere for you country.

On this occasion however the East may dampen some of continental europe's darker, more atavistic impulses.

o.u.

phil, you're right, it was a mistake to acknowledge Russ Green's attempt at provocation

john doe, quite so -Voltaire was also against democracy, and spent most of his time trying to gain a high position at the royal court. He revealed himself as a man of little stature when he tried to put down Leonard Euler, possibly the greatest mathematician of all time, by saying "All you do is write and write" (paraphrased).
Also, he never actually said those famous words quoted above - they appeared in a much later play in which he was written as a character.

Lee Laurie

Thanks to Phil for answering my question.
Unfortunately my question has since been removed from this blog.Why,I do not know.At no point did I show support for either side of the argument on this blog I merely asked Phil how long we had to keep pressuring the three major party's about immigration given that the polls show an 80% support for a halt to it.
It would seem that in todays Britain even asking a question such as this leads to censorship and and yet we still have writers complaining of Fascism.
With this in mind I ask all of those on this site to ask themselves who are the true "fascists"

Eric Martin

The far-right, and neo-nazi parties have taken up the mantle of the defenders of western democracy against Islam. Yes, there will be blood on the streets, and civil wars will break out all over Europe. Britain will not escape. melanie is right in thinking that the apparent cowardice of the liberal-establishment governments has caused this......But their reluctance to act against outrages committed by Islamists is deliberate....always has been. They anticipated civil war, and chaos. What comes out of this chaos? Martial law, of course! And then, the New World Order......which will then either kill, or deport all Muslims, since they have done their work. What amazes me is that Melanie, and all the other erudite journalists, have missed this planned deception! There's no stopping them now, since the hatred of Muslims by the vast majority of Europeans, and Britons, is visceral.....We're in for it!

Andrew

Frank,

"A virulent plague on both their houses!"

This shows how out of touch you really are. We already have this virulent plague. Mass immigration and creeping Islamization.

Coming to a town near you, soon. I hope that you enjoy it as much as I do.

Russ Green

Exactly Eric, well said and the websites i put on this thread in my first comment goes one heck of a long way to prove our point,... www.cpexposed.com www.tpuc.org

Roy

Well said Joe Strummer. I'm afraid my comment was adjudged unprintable.

Geoff M

None of my posts so far have been shown. Most unusual.

No debate.

No solution.

Peraps Melanie has joined Common Purpose or been replaced by a New Labour clone.

Tancred

A new song of resistance against anti European, christian and traditional peoples?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt-xfuUroK8&feature=related

When we do awaken the politicians will regret what they have tried to do to us.

The tide is turning.

john mcdonald

disappearing posts - this blog has become non-impartial - disagree with Melanie and that is just not on - my post which was up for several days has now gone - pathetic melanie =- looks like you are moving to the dark side

phil

I took the trouble to visit www.cpexposed.com wondering what I would find -sadly it is the usual garbage that one might expect from such a source .then I went to common purpose http://www.commonpurpose.org.uk which seemed a perfectly normal and responsible organisation -I then phoned the head office and questioned them about their activities -maybe I am deluded but one lot seemed exactly what we need and the other was posting totally incomprehensible garbage and an hour and a half of video that didn't even open !! so much for russ green and his friends -I suggest anyone who is wavering visits both sights and make their own mind up -I don't think it will take you long .

Herbert Thornton

john mcdonald - I hope that suspicions about Melanie's blog abandoning impartiality turn out to be unfounded.

Perhaps it has happened because Melanie has been temporarily absent and some politically correct nonentity has seized the opportunity to do mischief?

Russ Green

Phil, The vast majority of people haven't even heard of "common purpose" even less of us realise just how influential and powerful this organization is, not to mention the huge amount of our taxes it recieves, If as you say it is exactly what we need, why is it so secretive, I have asked questions in local government amazingly most of the people working for my local Council have never even heard of this organisation, Yet these unelected people have huge influence on what our children are being taught at school, they run a huge range of training projects etc, If you are happy to give your tax and your trust to such secretive organizations then that is your prerogative, but i for one will continue to ask questions until i get to the bottom of it and i sincerely hope that more people are doing the same,

phil

Russ Green they are not in hiding ring them 020-7608-8100 I did and got some honest answers .a lot more than can be found on the ridiculous web site you gave us -unless you are fluent in gobbledegook you cannot understand a word .

I posted this to you earlier but in keeping with what seems to be web site misses mine got lost so here is another try -see below

Russ Green you need to realise that with freedom of speech comes responsibility and that you have not exhibited -you insulted the memory of those that died in the holocaust and it is irrelevant which one you think it is -sarcasm has no place with a subject like that .
As for bertie ,maybe you are getting our message that this world has little interest in your message.

.Andrew has chosen not to reply or perhaps his words were unacceptable and therefore pulled -who knows-This has been a difficult day and I have better things to do than to spend it opposing the sentiments of the BNP ,but I am grateful that I am not the only one .

-one does not have to be a nationalist to love one,s country .people with more gentle views can be just as passionate and proud, and the many who have expressed their disdain for the views espoused by the BNP have proved that here this week .They are a small minority and will remain that because despite our many different views we are still proud of our heritage and reputation for welcoming those that wish to live amongst us in peace

Russ Green

Phil, I have no idea why you seem to be filled with such bitterness, i have not been sarcastic you must be the only person that would think that i have, the site you refer to concerning "common purpose" isn't even the tip of the tip of the iceberg, this organization is behind a multitude of projects, the more that you try to find out about them the more of these dead ends, ie domestic abuse etc etc etc, you run into, they are very influential in government, schools, higher education, councils, security, the police, etc, and by the way Phil, there really is no need to get nasty with me, i have never shown any nastiness towards you, and i won't, every discussion must have opposing veiws, and we must show respect to one another or we will never get anywhere !

Andrew

Phil,

"Andrew has chosen not to reply or perhaps his words were unacceptable and therefore pulled -who knows"

I replied to all posts directed at me.

The words were not unacceptable.

Unless of course, defending British folk tired of mass immigration, creeping Islamization and EU federalism, against accusations of anti-semitism/racism is seen as unacceptable here.

My comments have been removed or blocked. That's quite obvious. So, of the ones which were removed (which you obviousy read, as you replied to them) what comments would you deem were unacceptable?

Your arguments are poor and easily dismantled and I'm not the only one to suffer censorship when exposing this. But you may give yourself another pat on the back and claim some kind of hollow victory, but everyone can see what's really happened here.

The referee has stepped in to stop the fight.

Frank P

Perhaps it is no coincidence that the number of comments on this thread has reached 88; I shall therefore, with this comment, change it to 89 lest it attracts other purveyors of the dark arts of Der Fuehrer.

edster

phil,

Since you ask, I am none of the above. They'll have to go pretty far down the list in their big black book before they get to me. So please, don't get all Niemoller on me because I don't care. I'd rather have a party sticking up for their kinsmen than some failed trotskyists and marxists running around in Brussels.

Paul

I am thankful that Melanie has finally put the term 'the far right' in quotes. The BNP and their ilk are socialists --- race-obsessed socialists, but socialists, nevertheless. ...Just like the BUF, the New Party and the whole, vibrant Nazi-lovin' community.

It is good to call a thing by its proper name. ...If only to irritate the Leftist academics who perpetuated this fraud.

phil

edster you will have to forgive me if I use my own judgement as to what you are -your use of the great man,s name in vain says enough for me -I,m sure I will not change your decent into the dark world and frankly it does not bother me but until my friend Adam B comes back to answer the likes of you I will plough on lest anyone thinks we agree with you -comprende hombre ?

Russ Green

The rise in crime, mass immigration, polital correctness, the systematic breakdown of society, the arguing amongst ourselves is all being manufactuered by a group of people that are at this very moment in time pulling all of the strings they are creating a situation in which people will eventually accept marshal law, with marshal law will come dictatorship, "no more elections" please believe me i have no reason to lie, we are all heading for the same hell hole of totalitarianism, the people pulling the strings are using you,to bring about their dictatorship, we will "all" be the losers in the end. everyone PLEASE "WAKE UP" !

Lee Laurie

Phil.......I notice that a copper in Manchester has been sacked because he was caught wearing a BNP badge whilst off duty at a football match.
Your thoughts please on Fascism.

phil

Russ Green-I must start by telling you I am in no way bitter and if you see what I write much of it is with a sense of humour (ok well I think so)but I defend our democracy and racistfree way of life .I note from your responses that you seem hurt by my reaction and that of others here -well we came in when you insulted the holocaust of the Jewish people and of course many other tragic peoples -the massacres of many other races does not make one more important than the other but innuendo such as was perceived by your remarks will not endear you to many who write here -if it was misunderstood you have had a chance to put it right and then maybe your other opinions would be taken more seriously-

You will have seen that the teachings of the BNP are not popular here even though they do coincide occasionally with the fears of our society. The fact that we worry about uncontrolled immigration of those that do not want to conform to our historic way of life does not mean we are BNP voters -in fact it feels to me like it is a virus that is trying to attach itself to mainstream views and that we will have to inherit all the hateful opinions that go along with it -no sir not for me !

As for CP that was the first I had heard of it and I will repeat I rang them -you have their telephone number -they are not a secret society bent on our destruction -find out for yourself what they do and then come back and tell us .Your other web site is unintelligible as most are that pour out racist bile -perhaps you can understand but I cant -enlighten me I was truly mystified .

phil

Andrew I have had some censorship on occasion when I have said things that even I knew were unlikely to be posted -I have even rung Pete and said I would understand if they were pulled -usual it would have been to some sicko and I would have got it out of my system .So my point is I have to assume that far from demolishing my "hollow arguments "you wrote something just unpalatable.Your BNP will continue to pander to the disaffected and sometimes to the genuinely frustrated along with the out and out racists -a rather mixed and sad bunch wouldn't you say ?

As for the referee stepping in as a boxing fan I must tell you he only does that when the loser is unable to defend himself.-Your fourth paragraph sounds like a man on the ropes crying ,so why not write again and dismantle my arguments ,but in a way that will not be venomous -I for one will "listen"

edster

Phil,

I live in Spain and when I see, as I have for the last month, hundreds of dull, fasting moros staggering around the streets I feel angry. Zapatero is a moron and if the Spanish equivalent of the Austrian parties came on the scene then I for one would jump for joy.

Russ Green

Phil, I am sorry if a website i put here is confusing, but i have relatively resently began making these enquiries myself, please try this site www.stopcp.com ,Phil you are free to vote for whoever you choose to vote for in fact you should damn well be free to do so, and i would condemn anyone that called you a cockroach or a vile person, no matter what your choice may be,

phil

Russ Green I think this is really for the benefit of those without the time to spend looking at the places you send me to !! that site is out of George Orwell.s worst nightmare and if you believe it I DO WONDER WHY I AM EVEN WRITING TO YOU -IT HAS LINKS TO THE THOUGHTS OF DAVID ICKE !!and it sounds like it is from a discarded boy friend of Julia Middleton -BITTER AND TWISTED !!

btw WHOEVER WANTS TO CALL ME A COCKROACH MAY DO SO if it makes them happy -for edster -es muy bien para mi .
(sorry cap lock gone barmy) it doesn't bother me but thanks anyhow (lol)-Meanwhile you did not respond to my original objection to your post .nor answer any questions .

Laurie Lee -I agree with the chief constable of Manchester would you like to be a black man or an Asian stopped by a BNP constable ?-ok

Edster - donde vienes en Espana -no he visto los gentes de este clase . The ones I have seen are unobtrusive and certainly not falling down -perhaps you are mistaking them for the yobos in the bars or the gunmen operating drug gangs -sadly many from the Uk and western Europe .Madrid has had its problems with terrorists but I don't think you are referring to them are you ?just a little more bigotry from a kind and gentle man .

edster

Phil, don't embarrass yourself any further in Spanish on my account. Unfortunately the delay in the postings being published makes it too annoying to sustain any sort of communication.

phil

Edster- embarrassed for what? English will do if you cant speak Spanish -did the remarks embarrass you ?well don't worry -I know we are from different planets but I could suggest you try Austria rather than Spain where you would probably be far more happy .Sache for Zapetero and beer for ribero del duero ,you would love it -I can visualise you now in a pair of those pants with braces included and long socks -oh boy !!

edster

It was rather concerning your atrocious Spanish.

phil

Edster its good enough to speak to Spanish people -can you speak it too? fun this isn't it ?far better than your nasty thoughts on other races .which part of Spain do you live don't worry I won•t come looking for you (lol)

edster

Phil,

They are pitying you. It is always rather bizarre how the emptiest vessels do indeed make the most noise.

phil

Edster you are of course right and you have just proved it you never have an answer ,just a cliche -so goodnight son, he terminado con tigo-tu es un bien juguete para mi but now I have other things to do vaya con dios whoever that might be for you

edster

Bye Phil, I'll always have the expression "los gentes" to remind me of your mastery of Spanish.

Russ Green

well well well "PHIL" I was beginning to wonder why you kept on telling such vicious and nasty lies about the BNP, But that was before i realised it was you, This is the last comment i will make on this blog,... The tide is turning and you know it !!!

Lee Laurie

Phil.......I would be more worried about being a white in Manchester and being stopped by a member of a radical muslim group.
Even in La La land they do exist you know even if they don't wear a badge.(Have the police officers? in Alum Rock,B'ham who made racist remarks to the two preachers been thrown out of the force yet,for example?
And by the way it seems that the police officer involved in the BNP case has denied being a member of the BNP or ever having worn a BNP badge.This may be true or not but one thing is true and that is he has been denied natural justice.Something that seems to be becoming more prevalent in Britain lately.As a caring individual,as I'm sure you are, surely you should be worried about such a state of affairs as this is the sort of thing that became the norm in Nazi Germany in the thirties.
Do you agree that he should be denied natural justice or do we just ruin a persons career on the mere utterance of some unsubstantiated accusation.

Andrew

Phil,

I repeat. There was nothing unacceptable about my posts. And I'm not the only one to suffer censorship on here. What is apparent though is that all posts opposing your point of view have been removed or banned.

I won't waste my time posting on here again. The fragmenting of this disscussion makes it worthless.

You must be a favourite on here, judging by your numerous postings whereby you may attack other peoples views and recieve protection from a moderator when your own views are questioned.

It's quite obvious that any support for or defence of the Austrians who voted for far right parties, or those in Britain tempted to do the same is disallowed here.

phil

Edster -I don't claim to be a master of Spanish,it seems you are not either as you never managed one word , but I was trying to help you as it seems apparent that you do not understand English -Anyhow I thing on an otherwise quiet day I brought out your essential character for all to see and that was my real purpose -I don't think anyone now will take you seriously ,racism has never gone down well here .I think now that it is monday we can let everyone else have their say .que sueñes con los angelitos.

phil

Russ Green sorry I cant understand your last post .what did you mean "didn't understand it was you "-you have me beat there-please enlighten me -I am intrigued -- I cant find any lies I have told about the BNP either -I definitely do not approve of them but that is my right as it is yours to vote for them -

phil

Lee Laurie-I am getting a little embarrassed here -I am not the columnist ,just a normal interested poster and this last day or two seem to have done more than my fair share -but yes the man should have natural justice ,and as you have said I am just an ordinary caring person who abominates far right politics

phil

Andrew please read what I have said to Laurie lee -I am neither the writer nor the moderator and they have never met me -if they are moderating your words you need to look again at what you have tried to post -this thread has descended into a place for many BNP voters to air their views and in the absence of others to refute them it seems it has fallen to me to do so -I really have other interests in my life but I will not stand by and read some of the outrageous posts that have arrived here without defending a more middle of the road way of life which Britain is famous for -I have no wish to dominate this thread,but if others do not post I cant help that

.Perhaps you can tell me what my views are that you wish to oppose -I think I have only ever espoused moderate ones which would be in accord with the vast majority of our nation .

.As for AUSTRIA they are repeating their history and anyone with an ounce of sense knows where that led-If you dont agree you can discusss with edster but as you are aware I always hoped you were not aligned that way .

Russ Green

Andrew, we are all wasting our time on here, the only person Melanie "PHIL"lips doesn't censor is herself,

phil

Russ Green ha ha -now I know what you meant ,but sorry so you are wrong I am male -not a journalist,and I don't always agree with Melanie (not often)-I am sorry you are upset even though your politics mystify me -I hope you will read the CP web site and ring them -I am waiting for your report

Russ Green

Ok Melanie lets forget the pretence, i think you already know about the massive influence that this group of people hiding behind the label of "common purpse" have on our society, I notice you mention David Icke, well i agree this man is a bit strange but he does have one heck of a bigger following than you !

r.krishan

dr.johnson said, "hell is truth seen too late. west is in a slipery slope. apocaliptic views are not welcome to those in imminent peril. i feel sad that probably the highest civilisation despite its religious racial excesses is in terminal decline.

Andrew

I once thought that Mel was part of the solution.

Now I'm convinced that she is part of the problem.

Well done to the Austrians who used their democratic right to vote against multiculturalism and mass immigration.

Shame on those who can not accept and respect the result.

phil

laurie lee -here you are I have been working for you -this is from the centre for social cohesion web site
The BBC has reported that a Greater Manchester police officer, Stuart Janaway from Irlam in Salford has been forced to resign his post after he was seen wearing a British National Party (BNP) badge at a football match in Old Trafford in September 2006 while off duty.

Terry Sweeney, Acting Assistant Chief Constable and head of the Professional Standards Branch, said: "Item six of the Chief Constable's Order of 2004...makes it clear that officers are banned from being members of the BNP, Combat 18 or the National Front. This requirement extends into the private lives of police officers and police staff." hope that helps

phil

Russ green -you are being silly now -Melanie has enough problems without you saying she is me -if you really believe that I can see why you are so paranoid about CP and also believe the nonsense on those web sites you have recommended .I SHOULD THINK YOU COULD WORK OUT FOR YOURSELF THAT IF MELANIE WISHED TO HAVE AN ALIAS IT WOULD NOT BE phil!!

Lee Laurie

Phil...thanks for your replies.
Unfortunately I've been censored again which can only re-inforce the opinions of those who believe that their voices are being ignored by the political/msm who seem to run the country.
Just in case this one gets past the fascist who decides on who is to be heard on this site I will precis my last post.
'The Daily Mail reported in July 2007 that the intelligence servicesa in UK had identified up to 8 serving police officers /staff who were members of Al Qaeda.They have not been dismissed from their posts.They are still employed by the taxpayers of this country.
I was under the impression that AQ was considered a terrorist organisation by the British Govt.The BNP is,as of this moment,a legitimate political party under the laws of Britain and yet their members are subject to dismissal and harrasment by the police heirarchy,amongst others.
My question to you and,perhaps,to Melanie,is why the discrepancy....can you explain?

phil

Lee Laurie-I have no idea , and I DO FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE -perhaps I am naive but I do trust our authorities and I do believe we live in a wonderful democracy -it has flaws obviously but you will be hard pressed to find better .
You may wonder why I do not take the BNP seriously ,then read what RUSS GREEN WRITES -he thinks I am Melanie !!and that CP whoever they are, are subversives -it is pure paranoia-------Andrew never answers any questions and is moderated (i think)because he is writing bitter accusations -edster writes nonsense (tontoria-if he is reading this )-his only contribution is complaining about whether my Spanish is perfect .

Cant anyone say anything practical that would work other than attacking the Muslim community .I would emphasise that I am not their defender but I despise attacks on any minority solely because of their ethnicity .I really think I have answered enough questions on this thread ,some must think I have a monopoly here -well I assure you I have not .
Just one more thing Laurie ,are you the same person as Laurie Lee or am I writing to two different people -You have been civil to me so I hope I have responded in kind .

I think this thread must be coming to and end very soon so why not recap the garbage that has been written here by the likes of"rev"ursus .ndm ,bertie bert and other ,smaybe then Laurie you will realise why I think they are so foolish --Herbert T. writes with reason but he is few and far between - my best wishes for all our futures .

Russ Green

Lee Laurie, Maybe i can give a better answer to your question, it is quite obvious that someone is taking the BNP very seriously, if the BNP where of no consequence, why does the moderator of this blog find it necessary to delete pro BNP comments, how come these people are all so eager to deter people from finding out the truth, all i say is don't listen to me, but don't listen to the fascists either, just do what i did find out for yourself and then make your "own" mind up,

Andrew

"Andrew never answers any questions and is moderated (i think)because he is writing bitter accusations"

Wrong again Phil, Andrew answers all questions put to him. The fact that those answers are either removed or blocked tells me everthing IO need to know about this site.

It seems that your constant drivel is never disallowed though, despite your own "bitter accusations", that the likes of me and others have been disallowed a right to reply to.

Fact is, I gave good counter arguments, but I'm not interested in repeating myself only to have posts blocked again.

If you would like to suggest another website where I could air my views uncensored, I would be more than happy to counter your arguments there.

Herbert Thornton

Melanie has just written a blog headed "Guilt by participation".

That has an interesting ring to it, but in the case of this thread, people who support the Unmentionable Party can equally argue a case for guilt on the part of whoever manages this thread because they have not been allowed to participate - can't they?

phil

Andrew why do you think you are blocked ?could it be because your opinions are odious to a moderator whose job it is to make such decisions and is usually very easy ?Do you not in your more lucid moments think that you are espousing the ideas of a party who are despised by the mainstream ,and that there is just a chance that you are the johnny who is marching out of step rather than everyone else -

My "bitter remarks and drivel" do not attract much criticism outside of your colleagues posts -I find it sad that a person of intellect is so driven by hatred of others,and so supported by those that are obviously paranoid -I repeat that you never answer a question ,certainly not in a manner that the moderator finds printable and this magazine is rather welcoming to many views ,some pretty extreme .Do you know anyone else who would print Marcus from the USA ,a man who shames his own flag by his hatefilled rhetoric .

Lee Laurie

Phil...no I'm not Laurie Lee.If I was I'd be a re-incarnation of someone who was a true socialist unlike the fascists who masquerade as socialists now a days.
However I am British and I am getting increasingly fed up of the way the true British citizen is being treated by the loonies who seem to be intent on destroying our way of life.That does NOT make me a fascist or racist in any way but does make me look around for some group or other who will listen to my concerns and at the moment the liblabcon/msm group isn't doing that.
To read that in my home town of Birmingham I am soon to be in a minority ethnic group is bad enough but when I also hear that a,so called Labour politician,regards this as "exciting" I feel like an animal in some sort of laboratory experiment and quite frankly I am getting angry....just like a lot of people in UK.

Andrew

"Do you know anyone else who would print Marcus from the USA ,a man who shames his own flag by his hatefilled rhetoric"

.....And marcus's post is where?

Levy

We Jews should all emigrate to Israel, where we belong, because it is clear what, after the Weimarisation process is complete, might well come next.

Herbert Thornton

Levy,

You are fully justified in being fearful, but your fear is concentrated on an imaginary menace instead of on the real one. It is as if I - when contemplating the fact that Pol Pot had people murdered because they wore spectacles - believed that as a wearer of spectacles, I might well come next.

There is certainly a belief system that wants to exterminate you - and me too - but it is far removed from what we might call the Weimar mentality. It is older by far than that, and Israel is, alas, closely surrounded by it. Moreover, it threatens not just Jews, but all infidels.

To put it another way, you - and we - should be worried not about Weimarisation, but about Jihad.

Levy

Personally, I'm more fearful of what lies beneath the Western Christian psyche than of Jihad. Although the conflict which Israel currently finds itself in has the potential to be deadly, I do not believe that the disdain we encounter from the Arabs is really as deep-rooted and entrenched in terms of history and relgion and therefore as murderous as that which Jews have experienced and continue to experience in the West.

I believe that in the end we will live in peace with Islam but there will never be real peace with Christianity as the damaging effects it has left on Christians cannot be reconciled.

Herbert Thornton

Levy -

If you really believe that murderous intentions towards Jews are more entrenched in the West than in the Islamic world, then the only word I can think of to describe that belief is paranoia - and considering the number of my own countrymen who were killed and maimed in their war against the Nazis, I find it hurtful, though I concede that allowances have to be made for it in light of the horrors of Belsen, Auschwitz and so on.

But aside from that emotional reaction on my part, a cooler assessment makes me simply hope that you can be brought round to what seems (to me) to be a more rational assessment of our mutual interests.

Anne Palmer

Sadly Melanie, it is the undemocratic European Union that is encouraging the rise of these different Parties. The people are prepared to join any Political Party that MAY take them out of the EU, and that is what the BNP wants. The refusal to allow the people a say on the Treaty of Lisbon has done more for recruitment into the BNP that any leaflet they might have paid for themselves could possibly have done.

I hope the people use the European Parliamentary elections as the referendum the people were denied, not just here in THIS Country but in all the 27 Nation States.

Rather THAT than the terrible events that I fear might take place. The people here in the UK feel oppresed, spied upon already, I dread to think what the end result will be.

The Politicians will not wake up, as you put it in your last paragraph, because all they can think of is their own position, money and vast expenses. How can they wake up when it is their agreement with the EU that has caused this situation?

Even now they are continuing the destruction of this, their own Country in order to 'fit in' become part of, integrate fully into this European Union that has proven already that it has absolutely no interest or concern for the people?

Lee Laurie

I see that a bloke in Cornwall had a disagreement with his German neighbour.
During the contre temps the Cornish bloke said something like 'remember Dunkirk'.
The German complained to the police who decided that in modern day Britain words such as these now constitute "race hate" so they sent 5 'gestapo...sorry police officers ...round to the scene and arrested the Cornish bloke.
As an example of how the ethnic British are being treated in their own country this would have to be one of the best.
Race hate? Between two persons of the same race?
Yet rave about taking over Britain and killing Kuffars and homosexuals,Jews etc. and the law just doesn't want to know about it.
And there are still those about who continue to vote for this bunch...liblabcons...and wring their hands in anguish at how many votes the BNP will get at the next election.

Ps. Anne Palmers post at 10.54 on the 8th. says it all.