The third and final try

aram karibian

Perhaps it is better to have Obama win the election and watch the county deteriorate over the next 4 years in preparation for a vast house cleaning in 2012. I cannot abide the thought of another tongue-tied, psuedo-conservative president daily eviserated by left-wing media and discrediting the principles that have made this country great.

Jeffrey Gene Johnson

Wow, have you ever swallowed a bill of goods hook line and sinker. Have actually done any research other than Internet searches on American right-wing nut jobs? Walter and Leanore Annenberg are republican philanthropists who have supported republicans such as Rick Santorum and Mitt Romney, and now have endorsed John McCain. They have created a wealth of educational television with their foundation. Why would they give William Ayers $50 million to advance a radical agenda? It doesn't add up, and neither do most of your claims and conclusions. You should try getting off the Internet and try doing some real journalism. Go out and talk to people and see with your own eyes. I didn't realize England was becoming as embarrassing as the US when it comes to a raving right wing that have become so enamored of the stories they tell that they have become entirely disconnected from reality.

Verity

Jeffrey Dean Johnson - you ask why the Annenbergs would give $50m to advance a radical agenda.

I have no doubt that they did not.

Do you honestly think that unimaginably rich people pick over the pitches of everyone who approaches them for a handout? You are unusually naive if you do.

They have foundations that are set up for the sole purpose of administering those funds, as surely you are aware but think we are not, for some reason?

William Ayers, I am sure, did not write a letter in purpose ink reading, "Deer Lenore and Walter, How are you? I am a poor boy who cannot afford materials to make boms, wich are kneaded at this time to rebild our society and kill peeple."

The pitch would obviously have been written by someone other than Ayers - probably someone with a PhD who was a tenured professor and probably an author of a tome or two, and had developed a name for being concerned about education, and would have been under the name of some reputable foundation.

As every skoolboy no.

Verity

Jeffrey Gene Johnson - Wows! I hadn't realised that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and N Ireland had been renamed England!!

You need to get out and talk to people who understand geographical and political realities! I mean right now. Get up off your chair and go out right now and ask people what the name of the United Kingdom is. Maybe you could ask Andrew Sullivan, who I am sure is a hero of yours.

Huw Thornton

I think that a rant like the one that you're suggesting, Melanie, would finally sink McCain.

But I agree with you that simply to bring Ayers into the debate would be almost as bad. Obama has had plenty of time to work out the best riposte. There are several tacks which Obama could take, each of which could actually improve his standing.

Ultimately, McCain has to look presidential, or his final chances will fade - no matter what he says in the debate.

N

Melanie,

You have a point, but do you really think that, unless McCain were to print off your blog and read it word for word, he will remember every argument to go against Obama? McCain backed out of the last debate and was quite limp wristed, what makes you think he would be any different tonight?

Hayward Maberley

Mr Karibian,
In observing what has happened in the past 8 years in the USA has not been seeing a country detiorate? Brought to a stunning finale by Dubya and Friends with the Wall Street Debacle causing the deficit to rise by another US$billion or so.

BA

From what I understand of Mr. McCain's campaign, that's exactly what he will do, as his most recent press releases show.

I agree with Verity (1).

Hayward Maberley

Verity,
I believe that Mr Johnson committed what is a common error, in the USA, in calling the UK England.. It is somewhat similar to calling the USA America, when in fact The Americas run from Greenland down south to Chile. Many of the citizens of the USA that I have met conflate the UK with England.

David Townsend

Melanie Phillips used to be a fine- not to say great- journalist but her latest offerings on the Obama "terrorist" links are really second rate and second hand. There is no "evidence" produced other than from the cuttings library of far from impartial and fairly dubious journos and bloggers.
30 odd years ago when Ayers was setting off bombs in the company of other homegrown terrorists in the US (and Obama was in junior school), the gallant John McCain in the company of thousands of other US
servicemen was enthusiastically bombing the crap out of Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos on account of Dr Strangelove Kissinger's "domino" theory which some of your US correspondents probably think is a pizza company. Millions of civilians were killed. If Melanis Phillips has to raise issues of terrorism she should give McCain a fair go too.

Hayward Maberley

Verity,
If my experience of helping to write a submission for a grant to a charitable foundation in Australia the picking over is done by the staff employed specifically to do do so. Charitable bodies in Australia, and presumably in most other countries USA included,are very careful in their vetting procedures. For the legislation that they are set up under demands accountability, and adherence to government guidelines,as well as their own, for who, when, where and how they may or may not support with funding.

Jeffrey Gene Johnson

My apologies to the Scottish, the Welsh, and the Irish members of the United Kingdom, although you could construe my omission as charitable. I'm certainly aware of your geography. Is it true that this kind of paranoid hysteria has infected the entire UK? I was hoping it was just a lunatic fringe centered in London.

The Annenberg's did not fund a radical entity. That is pure fantasy of right-wing fanatics.
Ayers never served on the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, he helped to start it. There was nothing radical about it. It was designed to improve education and training of teachers.

Ayer's did not kick-off Obama's political career, and has had no role in influencing Obama's political thought or his Presidential campaign.

There are a number of conservatives who have not taken leave of their senses, including Christopher Buckley, David Brooks, Matthew Dowd, Kathleen Parker, and yes, Andrew Sullivan, to name only a few.

Quince

"Call it the audacity of hope."

Call it rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic...

Bill M

Today, Obama distanced himself once again from ACORN saying his relationship with them ended more than a decade ago and that his campaign has nothing to do with the work ACORN is doing for this election. He called this all a "distraction". He blamed the bogus registrations on the timidity of the ACORN workers who are too afraid or intimidated or who are unwilling to do the work to register authentic and eligible voters. He said since they are paid by the number of registrations they turn in, they will just go to the phone book or make up names to register so they can collect their money. So, in the end, he claims, it is not ACORN's fault that they have all of these illegal voter registrations on their hands. By the way, he said, these bogus names won't be able to vote anyway. He forgot to mention they will be able to vote on absentee ballots. Here he is in all his glory:
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=196803

What a man of character. What a man of vision. Hope. Change. Believe. Their eyes don't want to see. Their ears don't want to hear.

I'm not a rabid supporter of McCain, but I do not want Obama. I know plenty who are rabid supporters of McCain and they will not be watching tonight.

The heart does sink.

Verity

Howard Mayberry seems to think he's telling us something new when he notes that many Americans conflate England with Great Britain.

NSS.

Jeffrey Gene Johnson writes that Ayers did not kick off Obama's political career. Oh? Despite the fact that Obama's political career was launched with a fundraiser in the living room of William Ayers and Bernadine Dorhn? That was the formal kick-off.

Don't tell us they'd been strangers until that point because it is not true. And Dorhn and Michelle Shrieky had worked together in the same law firm 20 years previously.

In Britain, the general perception of the disintegration of Andrew Sullivan's writing style is a matter of bafflement.

Dave

Dear Mr Moderator. I'd like to respond to Verity and be just as insulting to her (no more, no less) as she is to others.
Out of interest will you allow this?
If this post gets past you I'll assume that's a yes.
Cheers!

Byron in Wahroonga

It's five minutes to midnight but yes, McCain should go in hard on Ayers, Wright and all the rest of Obama's America-hating posse. If the mainstream media are so desperate to dissuade McCain from that course, it must be a rich vein to mine.

john east

Does the Obama/McCain debate matter anymore? With the collapse of the Western finance system, capitalism, and by association Republicanism, are now effectively dead.

Whether one likes it or not, and for what it's worth I'm in the "not" camp, Obama just has to avoid saying or doing anything stupid over the next couple of weeks to become the next president.

In this country we are seeing the same effect. Many thought that our useless former chancellor would be blamed for the coming recession/depression, but against nearly all expectations he's made a rapid recovery simply because being an interventionist socialist in the current climate of fear trumps all of his many failings.

All across the Western world capitalism and free market advocates will be blamed for what is about to unfold.

We are all socialists now.

Byron in Wahroonga

Perhaps it is better to have ***Obama win the election and watch the county deteriorate over the next 4 years in preparation for a vast house cleaning in 2012***

There's no guarantee of an aragula backlash in 2012. Keep in mind that an Obama administration would appoint ACORNers to government positions with orders to cement his position.

Think ZANU-PF, without the charm.

Byron in Wahroonga

***the gallant John McCain in the company of thousands of other US servicemen was enthusiastically bombing the crap out of Vietnam***

I think you meant, 'Vietnamese Communists.' And for that they earned the undying gratitude of freedom-loving patriots everywhere.

Israel

Jeffrey Gene Johnson:

Don't worry, not all of us over here have drank the Kool-Aid.

I commend you on your try but what you have here is a perfect storm of every insane, ugly, debunked smear about Obama on one blog. No matters what you post, what links you give, whatever you say which shows that what they say is correct it will make no difference. Some on this blog are just like the conservative character Biff in the latest Tom Tomorrow "This Modern Life" strip. You should check out some of the jaw-dropping comments conserning the debunked story over Obama's birth certificate!!!

The main problem is, after 8 years of neo-con bloviating they cannot understand how an American can be popular around the world and why he seems to have the ear of people around the world without having to make theats to other world leaders.

Laura

I'd like for Sen. McCain, or somebody, to ask Sen. Obama how he can defend being a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, a group that excluded Congressman Steve Cohen on the basis of his race. (Cohen is white but his constituency in Memphis, TN is overwhelmingly black.)

Patrick Neid

One can only hope...

Frank P

aram karibiam (6.30pm)

Other than the word 'Perhaps' your prognostication is spot on.

Despite Melanie's round up of the data relating to Obama's antecedents, which is quite generous actually as there are other issues that will eventually prove even more embarrassing once he is in office, it appears at the moment that the US electorate would rather have a 'good looking' (can't see it myself - he looks like President Gaddafi - though I can understand why Andrew Sullivan fancies him) charlatan as President, than countenance an elderly heroic veteran being rude to his his opposing nominee about his duplicity and dodgy connections.

Thus major hegemonies wither and die, from fear of confrontation.

Jill

'Obama would actually be one of the most divisive presidents in American history.'

yeah, just like his campaign...

People are holding their breath about a possible future *under* Chairman Mao-bama. My faith is in God. Events over the last six months have driven us to our knees. Only Jesus can save us.

I don't have to tell readers of Ms. Melanie's column to vote. I would like to encourage all of you though. Sean Hannity says there are things every person can do to retain control over their life no matter who is president. Take responsibility for your own life in the choices you make. We have more power over our lives than any politician.

I'll add that if, in the past, you have been a good citizen because you vote, write your congress members, show appropriate outrage, sign petitions, send twenty bucks occasionally, but you never volunteered for such things as voter drives or campaign help, please consider it for the next election 2010. We need to be bolder than we have ever been.

Republicans are invited to repeat after me your daily affirmations:

I'm good enough because I'm a Republican.
I'm smart enough because I'm a Republican.
And Gosh Darn it! People like me because I'm a Republican!

Today is the first day of the rest of our Republican lives.

Today is the first day of the backlash we have been promising. Why wait until Nov 4th?

God bless you all. It's going to be OK :) And who knows? McCain could win because Americans naturally hate statism, plus the polls were overweighted with Dems.

John Montgomery

Jeffrey Gene, perhaps it is because we have had 11 years of spin and lies from New Labour in the UK. Tony Blair 'sexing up' dossiers, Gordon Brown ex-communist, Alistair Darling Marxist, Harmann et al all fellow-travellers of Marxism Today in the 1980s (funded by the KGB). It is has not been established that Ayers and Obama were no more than neighbours in Chicago. In fact, they first met in New York in the 1980s. Yes it does sound like a conspiracy theory, but then that is because it might well be a real conspiracy. In 3 weeks America might elect a Muslim (by cultural upbringing), Marxist, black separatist church-goer, corrupt (Rezko), ballot-rigger (ACORN) to have his finger on the button. Watch out Israel. We can't believe that America has been taken over by fools and the gullible.

John Mongomery

David Townshend, John McCain was doing his duty along with many others. They were fighting communism, backed by Mao's China. Mao killed 70 million of his own people. A fat lot of good it did Vietnam being a dictatorship for the past 35 years.

Are you implying you suppost William Ayers?

Kevyn Bodman

Partly right, Melanie.
But it's not enough to provide reasons why voters should NOT vote for Obama, there need to be reasons to vote FOR McCain.
Negatives on their own don't work.

Kevyn Bodman

I largely agree with Verity but I do wonder if many readers understand what any fule kno and what we can expect to be learnt in skool.
More and more often references I make to the 'classics' go straight past my younger acquaintances.
Sometimes I would like to get away from this cultural paucity and I wish I was a spaceman.

elixelx

J.G.Johnson: in the early 70's I was part of a post-graduate study group at a Canadian University looking into the results of Canada Council grants for individual and collective research.
Our group found that, in the first 3 years after receiving their money, ONLY 3% of recipients had completely accomplished the goals set out in the grant proposal; 43% had accomplished more than 50%; 39% had accomplished less than 50%, and fully 15% had taken the money and run!
It was also noted by the study that individual recipients tended to be far more trustworthy than collective recipients; that individual grant proposals, while rougher than the collective proposals, also tended NOT to be written solely by the individual; and that the personnel of the Canada Council itself, while spending hours and days over individual proposals worth $8000 or $10000 would routinely rubber stamp smoothly-written proposals worth hundreds of thousands of $$$ that came bearing the imprimatur of "respectable" institutions. It was precisely these last which tended to accomplish least!
We were never allowed to publish our study lest it "muddy the waters" and provoke tighter regulation of the gravy train.
So here's what probably happened with the Obama Grant! The University of Chicago put it's name and reputation behind a proposal that was probably written by Bill Ayers but never bore his name. I'm sure it was a masterful presentation hitting all the right buttons and the Annenberg grant-giving body may well have given it the thumbs up without further ado! The accomplishments of the Challenge, while still virtually unknown, show that the culture had not changed--there was still a lot of take the money and run about!
There is an old Principle about groups infighting like cats and dogs over tiny budgetary proposals but being in unanimous agreement over the big-budget items.

elixelx

Mr. Maberley; one year ago, yesterday the American economy was BOOMING; 4.5% unemploymet, oil at $50, Dow Jones at 14,100 and Bush was going to be buried by Iraq, because nobody was blaming him for how GOOD the economy was!
Today, you clever little hypocrite, you are hating on him for ruining the economy while Iraq has left the building!
Have you noticed that the world has turned toward Bush recently to give leadership in the economic crisis?! Lame Duck, indeed!

grabber (winner of the mrs joyful prize for rafia work)

Dear Verity

it is with trepidation that I risk incurring your wrath, but I feel bound to point out that, according to the grate molesworth of st custards (hem hem), the corect speling is 'kno'

toodle pip!

David

Sorry- was Verity actually suggesting that people or charitable institutions just hand over $50 million without any information or checks?

israel

Quince:

To mis-quote Steven Colbert:

"McCain isn't rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, he's rearranging deck chairs on the Hindenburg!!!"

fellow traveller

Byron: "Think ZANU-PF, without the charm"

I'm just asking, but isn't conflating a Democratic presidential administration with the horrific nightmare of Zimbabwe just a tiny bit hysterical?

It's just my opinion, but might it be the tiniest bit insulting and self-indulgent to even begin to compare your disappointment over losing an election with the appalling suffering of millions in sub-Saharan Africa?

If, after the election, you meet someone who has had their house burned or been beaten or raped or imprisoned by Mugabe's thugs, I'd suggest you don't say "I know exactly how you feel mate. We've got President Obama in charge."

But I'd also guess that you haven't spent much time meeting the billions of people on this planet who live lives of suffering in ways which you can barely conceive - because if you had, you wouldn't make such an ignorant, asinine comment.

Antonio Archer

Jeffrey Gene Johnson: "My apologies to the Scottish, the Welsh, and the Irish members of the United Kingdom, although you could construe my omission as charitable. I'm certainly aware of your geography. Is it true that this kind of paranoid hysteria has infected the entire UK?"

Don't apologise to the buggers. That'd be dhimmitude and they'd love that! Their paranoia has been carefully nurtured by the nationalists peddling the politics of envy and ancient grievance. The usual brand of toxic snake oil favoured by nationalists and separatists the world over.

Once upon a time in Westminster .....

The Houses of Parliament were not originally built as a democratic institution but as an asylum where we sent all nutters and criminally minded who thought that they would like to run everbody else's lives for them. As least we knew where "they" were and no matter how hopeless things became at least we knew it wasn't really serious. Things remained much the same until 1997 when, after their "long march", Tony Blair and his gang of crypto marxists finally got lucky and defeated the aged and increasingly weary John Hindenburg at the election. Tone's first priority was to establish the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly whilst still allowing them to send their full contingent of 'inmates' to Westminster to bolster his majority. His second priority was to gerrymander the electoral boundries, especially in England, so that it would be impossible to ever lose another election even if, as in 2005, he got only 19% of registered voters to vote for him. His third priority was to expand public sector employment.... just to be sure.(ref. Turkeys and Xmas) His forth priority ........etc

That is how the tail got to wag the dog. Ref: 'Prison Diaries' Antonio Archer.

phil

There are so many accusations on these threads about Obama and much writing from Melanie -I for one have neither the time nor ability to find out the provenance of these claims -the only person that I trust is Melanie herself to tell me where the research is to support these claims .
The outrageous posts of the fragrant Verity do nothing to clarify the position in fact they merely cloud it further as her rhetoric will not be believed by any but her pack -I would like to know the truth and that means where does it come from -according to some we are about to have a monster elected, and seeing as more than 60 percent of the USA seem to favour him, am I to assume they are mad ? Most like me are not rabid left wingers either .

I have yet to see a polite or reasoned response from the fragrant one .just insults ,sarcasm ,accusations and nonsense -perhaps she will enlighten us as to where she gets all her information from -hopefully not just right wing sites on the net ,but I am not holding my breath-the history of month after month of pseudo intellectual psycho babble precedes her on subject after subject beautifully illustrated with sarcasm and invective .I can only assume that she is the wife in the story of a husband advertising his encyclopaedia Britannica for sale at half price ----" ******* wife knows everything "

If she can provide us with positive proof I am prepared to doff my hat and say thank you Verity -at the moment I don't have one .

Conservative Cabbie

Jill

I think I'm in love! Bravo, one of the best posts I've read. Take control of your own lives - the message we should all live by.

Conservative Cabbie

I love Israel, he comes on here regularly, posts a smear and then says "perfect storm of every insane, ugly, debunked smear about Obama on one blog".

Pot Kettle Black!

Byron in Wahroonga

***might it be the tiniest bit insulting and self-indulgent to even begin to compare your disappointment over losing an election with the appalling suffering of millions in sub-Saharan Africa?***

Not at all. But let's talk about the appalling suffering of just one sub-Saharan African: Obama's brother, in the slums of Nairobi. How contemptible is millionaire Barry, leaving his own brother to suffer on $5 a month?

Verity

Fellow Traveller writes: "t's just my opinion, but might it be the tiniest bit insulting and self-indulgent to even begin to compare your disappointment over losing an election with the appalling suffering of millions in sub-Saharan Africa?"

What on earth does one have to do with the other? Where is the nexus, or even the notional nexus?

This is one of silliest, most self-inflating comments I've ever read on the internet.

And to address your self-righteous point, Obama, through rabid socialism and ceding American freedom to run its own affairs, would bring misery to millions of Americans. Of course, you could say that by voting for him, they brought it on themselves, just as you could say that the Africans brought their condition on themselves, too. Sixty years and hundreds of billions of pounds in "soft loans", meaning free money, and they're still out there with the begging bowl.

I think it's time the Africans were left alone to help themselves as the rest of the world has done since time immemorial.

You did ask.

fellow traveller

Byron: neat sidestep. But let's get this straight: you think there's an equivalence between your situation if Obama gets elected and the plight of the ordinary citizens of Zimbabwe? Let's be absolutely clear on this - because, having some small experience of what this means in real life, your blinkered, ignorant, self-pitying self-obsession makes my flesh crawl.

Just so we're straight about this. Then we can all get back to discussing the important issues, such as which cabinet post Obama will award to which former member of the Black Panthers.

fellow traveller

One other thing: I was thinking to myself this morning, "entertaining domestic terrorists at the White house... imagine!" but then I remembered Martin McGuinness taking tea with President Bush in November last year and I didn't have to imagine any more.

But I guess that's different, because the IRA was *our* domestic terrorism in the UK, so there's no problem palling around with *them* these days. All the same, I think they killed a few more innocent people than the Weather Underground did.

Frank P

Jill

Bravo! (see my last post addressed to 'Reg' on the Previous thread).

David

"What on earth does one have to do with the other? Where is the nexus, or even the notional nexus?

This is one of silliest, most self-inflating comments I've ever read on the internet."

Yeah, that was his point. I mean, comparing Zanu-PF with the Democrats is just insane and insulting.

Byron in Wahroonga

***you think there's an equivalence between your situation if Obama gets elected and the plight of the ordinary citizens of Zimbabwe?***

No. That's your agenda-driven interpretation. But Mugabe and Obama both have hearts of stone. Putting politics and your convoluted bluster aside, how many millionaires leave close relatives, to beg in the streets? Apart from Obama, the only one I can recall is Cher, whose daughter was dumpster diving in LA for years. She's a fanatical lefty, too. It's no coincidence that Obama has repulsive friends, like Wright and Ayers. He's worse than either of them.

Byron in Wahroonga

***comparing Zanu-PF with the Democrats is just insane and insulting***

You obviously haven't seen the 'Obama Youth' video on Youtube.

They look just like ZANU-PF green bombers. Except their camo pants are neatly ironed.

moneyrea

See also http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/obamas_radical_revolutionits_a.html

fellow traveller

So, let's go back to this one more time. The third and final try, as Melanie would say.

1. His half brother, who Obama has met twice in his life, says that he resents the media portraying him as some kind of abandoned waif. “It seems there are people who want to destroy me and my family,” he told the unMarxist Times, “They say I live on a dollar a month, but this is all lies by people who don’t want my brother to win.” He doesn't beg in the street. he lives in a house In poverty, yes. But he expresses no desire to be rescued - quite the opposite.

2. Do you honestly say that the moral standards of Barack Obama, who hasn't so far raped, murdered or tortured any of his political opponents (although I'm sure someone's got a youtube video that "proves" he has) are the same as Mugabe's? Don't bother answering, you've already said yes to that one.

3. If you're looking for someone with a heart of stone, maybe Verity fits the bill - as she advocates leaving the 300-odd million people who live on $1 a day or less in Africa to themselves, complaining that "they're still out there with the begging bowl". That's what generally happens when you can't buy food.

4. And if you don't know that soft loans are rarely given out of kindness but in exchange for trade benefits, access to natural resources and political influence, you really have a profound ignorance of the reality of life for the world's poorest people. But that's another argument.

Having worked with many people who have dedicated their lives to helping the powerless victims of oppression, the people that the two of you degrade with your bizarre blog-inspired fantasies, all I can suggest is that you stick to Western politics - where your ignorance is marginally less offensive.

Water

Obama’s past affiliations are very, very, very dubious need I say anymore for it’s been covered (though I’m not calling him Mugabe by any means, though given some prior posts you’d be forgiven for calling him Obini-me, not that I am of course).

Chortle, chortle and jokes aside, if Mc Cain follows Mel’s prescription he may just be in with more then a fighting chance, patriotism is of course an American force to be contended with. Despite the torrid financial conditions such relations are most disconcerting for even the most open minded of individuals.

Furthermore the fact that Obama in his response to McCain's assertion about signing a pledge to accept federal campaign funds was something not to be shunned, as it was anything other then instantaneous, and it worked in favour of Mc Cain.

All the same the ACORN controversy (alongside the qualms of a shady past) may still win it for McCain; it is a while till Election Day comes around and a week being a year we have just under 3 left as of yet.

Ronnie

Actually, fellow traveller, I'm quite offended by their ignorance of western politics.

roGER

I think Mccain has lost simply by being so old.

The endless rigours of the campaign trail have (understandably) exhausted him; he wheezes and looks tired and shell-shocked.

The contrast with Obama is huge.

No, rightly or wrongly, I believe the American public will go with the younger better looking man.

Frank P

Once again Mark Steyn in NRO's 'The Corner' encapsulates the essence of last night's 'debate':

>Thursday, October 16, 2008

The Good Old Days [Mark Steyn]

One thing I liked about the Bush/Gore debates is that it was obvious both men loathed each other and they didn't care who knew it. That liberated them, for good and ill.

By contrast, for all the characteristically ponderous huffing from Bob Schieffer about "negative campaigns", McCain was never able to cast aside the Senatorial collegiality and really stick it to Obama. Why couldn't he have used the s-word - "socialism"? Why couldn't he have said that his opponent is a perfectly pleasant fellow but he has an all but blank resume so all we have to go on is his votes and his associations and both suggest a doctrinaire liberal well to the left of, say, Bill Clinton? Why couldn't he have pointed out that Barack Obama would be the most left-wing president ever elected in the United States?

McCain lacked the killer instinct. A man who cheerfully crashes planes and survives years of torture appeared nervous that clobbering his opponent might dent his image as Mister Bipartisan. You look at the way he sneered at Romney in the primary debates and compare it with his tentativeness toward Obama. His reluctance to whack the Democrat wound up, by default, elevating Obama. When a veteran Republican who's been on the national scene for a quarter-century and a Democrat whom nobody had heard of 20 minutes ago appear to be equal in stature, then by definition the Democrat wins.

And that, Kathryn, explains those insta-polls. McCain has no one to blame but himself.

10/16 12:37 AM<

Beutifully, though sadly, put!

Familiar Clown

Now that debate's over and 'experts' are proclaiming Obama the winner. But, who's really the snake oil salesman here? who's really the sales pitcher with a bunch of clever medicines, and claiming a lot of exotic ingredients? Who is promoting with such certainty that his 'change' agenda will be responsible for magnificent and beneficial results to so many? Who's the quack? I think most people know one when they see one.

Craig Strachan

Strike three - McCain's out.

Hysteria

and the election will be decided (in part) by people like these in this series of funny, ridicluous and scary interviews

http://www.bpmdeejays.com/upload/hs_sal_in_Harlem_100108.mp3

Byron in Wahroonga

***his half brother, who Obama has met twice in his life, says that he resents the media***

Pump as much smoke as you like, FT. The bottom line is, Obama has left his own brother living in a Nairobi slum on $5 a month. It's disgraceful, it's inexcusable, and it's an insight into his lack of character. Type as long as you want, but you can't spin your way out of it.

Byron in Wahroonga

***having worked with many people who have dedicated their lives to helping the powerless victims of oppression***

Send a fiver to Barry's brother? That will help a victim of oppression.

Hayward Maberley

elixelx,
It just goes to show that the chickens, economic, fiscal and fiduciary, have finally come home to roost.
As for the Iraq Fiasco again time will tell.
I am not sure of the clever, but I am no whited sepulchre unllike many of the others on this blog who cannot see past there Neocon noses.

israel

Byron in Wahroonga:

Why don't you tell us about Cindy McCain's two half sisters in the States who she doesn't help? I'm sure two nice ladies that close to Cindy and her husband could do with a hand up from their very rich sibling?

Hayward Maberley

Byron of Wahroonga,
Interesting nom de la poste. Judging by your posts you must belong to the Australian Chapter of Neocons. You nust have been disappointed in the last Federal Election. When the late unlamented Prime Mendacious aka Deputy Dawg aka The Lying Rodent© Sen.George Brandis, Lib. Old, manage to do the Bruce double, losing both the election and his seat.

Hayward Maberley

Fellow Traveller,
Lest we forget
President Reagan met with the leaders of the Taliban in March 1983. This when they like the later “Contras”, a gang of narcocrims were also regarded as "brave freedom fighters"
See @http://politicalfever.org/war/1525-1983-ronald-reagan-meets-leaders-taliban.html

Byron in Wahroonga

***why don't you tell us about Cindy McCain's two half sisters***

Cindy's not running for president.

John MOntgomery

Israel, I doubt whether Mrs McCain's sisters are living on $5 a day. Besides Obama says he wahts 'to spread the wealth around', but not his own obviously. Fellow-traveller, if Zimbabwe (Marxism, corrupt elections, economic collapse) is too big a stretch for you, how about Kenya where Obama 'campaigned' last year?

fellow traveller

I'm not spinning. Obama didn't "leave" him anywhere. You're criticising Obama for not doing something that no one (except you) has asked him to do and that his half brother says he doesn't want him to do. His brother also criticises you (not personally) for making political capital out of this apparent slight, representing him as helpless and starving.

It's odd, because I thought that the republican attitude would be to encourage ordinary Africans to rely more on themselves, which I'd agree has to be the way forward once enough people have the opportunity to thrive. Obama's brother seems to be the perfect example of self-help: he training to become a mechanic.

The point which you're apparently not grasping is that it's only appropriate to help people who ask for help. Your definition of whether he needs help seems to be different to his. Do him the respect of accepting his definition - because now he's expressed his opinion it's really none of our business any more.

phil

Anyone watching last nights edition of Newsnight will have seen the lies regarding sen Obama put to bed in the televised debate and subsequently in the analysis by the commentators -The vicious comments on these last few threads have demeaned all of us who take part here - It was obvious from the comments of the real participants ,namely the American people how little they think of it in the real context of this election ,and in fact they agreed that the negative campaigning of the Mccain camp had been a costly excersise .

Will I change the thoughts of the rabid right -NO but I am comforted by the knowledge that the American people will use their common sense to elect the best candidate and it is rather obvious to me who is the most able -which is the only basis on which this election must be won ,not only for the American people but for all of us too.

It is not often that I disagree with Melanie but on this occasion for the life of me I cannot see where she is coming from -roll on the election and then we can get back to better subjects for us to debate

Byron in Wahroonga

***it's only appropriate to help people who ask for help***

He! You're spinning like a centrifuge, FT. Obama's brother may be too proud to ask but there's no doubt he needs help.

John Montgomery

Phil, I am not sure you calling people 'the rabid right' gives you the moral high ground. I don't care about Obama's brother, but I do think he is wrong to redistribute wealth by taxation.

I scored the debate as a boxing match. McCain won on education, energy, tax, pork, government spending. I had them tied on health, their VP picks. Obama said nothing of real substance but floated above it all. The left says it wants to debate the issues, but all we get is 'change'. By the way, the Gallup poll is moving McCain's way.

Conservative Cabbie

Phil

I'm interested to know why you think Obama is the best candidate.

It can't be his track record, he has none. It can't be "change", although he talks about it a lot he's never demonstrated any effort to change anything but his mind. It can't be his foreign policy experience or acumen, he thought the way to deal with Russia's invasion of Georgia was to send it to the UN security council. Perhaps you like his running mate, or as I like to call him "Gaffe Central". Perhaps it's because you like his rhetoric, but is that enough for a President? Or is it just because he's not Bush or McCain?

I was being flippant above (my feelings for Obama are well known), I am however genuinely interested to know why you think he's the better candidate.

fellow traveller

OK John M, I'll bite. What's the relevant similarity between post-election US and Kenya that so strikes you? I've been to both countries and it's not immediately apparent to me.

Note: no one's come back to me on the Martin McGuinness thing yet. Why is it acceptable to have an unrepentant ex-terrorist visiting the White House if Ayers can't sit on a committee with Obama? I don't get it.

sergey

"60 percent of the USA seem to favour him, am I to assume they are mad ?"
Not mad, but duped, as millions before them, by a clever leftist demagogue hiding his true agenda and his repugnant past. All your logic boils down to "millions lemmings can not be wrong". Know what? They can.

Augustus

"It is not often that I disagree with Melanie but on this occasion I cannot see for the life of me where she is coming from..."

The future, perhaps?

phil

John Montgomery I am definitely not from the left ,actually right of centre by modern day definitions and we will have to disagree politely as to who won the debate :) you have made your points in a proper manner and not indulged in gratuitous insults ,that is all I ask for -it is hard to achieve from the usual suspects .

fellow traveller

You're absolutely right. The only way to interpret quotes like "this is all lies by people who don’t want my brother to win" is that he's saying the exact opposite. And so it inevitably follows that Barack Obama is exactly like Robert Mugabe. It's a shame the debates are over. This is political dynamite. I can't understand why McCain isn't using it.

phil

Conservative Cabbie-partly I admit because of age and the fear of having SP as president but also my judgement is that Obama is far more intelligent.We will have to see -I could be wrong -hope not because he is going to win .I have emphasised previously that it is not because I do not like MC -as I do have a high regard for him but I do not feel he is the right man at this time .

Huw Thornton

Hi phil -

I think that you're showing your usual good sense here. I'm not in one camp or the other - I don't think Sarah Palin is anything like as bad as she is painted, and I really respect John McCain. His campaign has been a disaster, however - if ability to run a national campaign is any guide to competency as a President, Obama has it by a mile.

Poosh

Ignoring the strawman arguments (as if anyone seriously thinks Obama supports terrorism or has Black Panther posters on his bedroom wall) his ability to pal around with terrorists and the most dubious of folks shows a pattern of vile associates - be it his racist pastor of twenty years or Ayers. I seriously doubt Obama has strong sympathies for these twisted creatures but none-the-less there is a consistency of him ’paling’ around with them i.e using such people as ladders to power or serving on supposed charities with perhaps the noblest intentions but ultimately not denouncing these people whilst present (for the greater good perhaps). It’s a pattern of bad judgement that most conservatives are worried about. He’s willing to legitimise wannabe terrorists such as Ayers just as he would legitimise tyrannies such as Iran by personally sitting down with their pseudo-Islamic leaders without preconditions.

Eric Watson

This election, and the 'news' coverage of it, is the result of unrelenting long-term indoctrination in higher education in the US.

The worship of the Ivy Leagues and the pseudo-intelligencia makes me want to vomit. There is no real value to "intelligence" for its own sake. I have met many people of very high IQ which were incapable of holding a job or even a conversation. (I have been accused of having a very high IQ myself, yet do not consider myself to be wise.)

This election has been a bad one, and continues the trend from the left to be ever more divisive and venomous while blaming the "right" for all of the ills of the world.

Whittaker Chambers was right. The "grand experiment" has been over for quite a while. With the rise of leftists in the House and Senate, and that of Obama, the corpse is beginning to stink.

The light at the top of the hill will soon go out. The world will have to muddle along without relying upon the blood and treasure of the US.

Regardless of the outcome of this election, the United States will continue down a path to poverty--and all of those who came here and ruined it will have no where else to go.

Pay attention. This is history in the making. Rome is beginning to burn.

Water

Poosh - I make no claims as to Obama being a member of some dubious organisation (though the democrats could certainly be construed as such).

The haystacks acknowledged, would you agree that the points raised in this article by Mel are hardly fallacious? ‘The fraud we can believe in’ entry was compelling to say the least.

This said, I wonder if people would hold McCain in the same light were he to have had relations of the same nature as Obama in his past, though, of a Caucasian racist inclination, as is so prevalent in certain parts of the US. Is this some inversed racial inequality that we are touching upon (is this hypocrisy at its best)?

fellow traveller

Don't be so modest Eric. Go on, tell us your IQ, you tease!

phil

Huw Thornton I fear common sense does not have much of a following here -insults and invective mostly seem to proliferate -thankfully they will not produce a president .
I think the cabby must have a lot of fares at the moment as he hasn't replied to my response ,SENSIBLE OR OTHERWISE :)

Poosh

I think you missunderstood me Walter, perhaps I did not explain it correctly. The response by Obama True Believers, including himself actually, have been "I was only 8 years old when these terrorist attacks took place, I clearly had nothing to do with them" which is a a perverse lie - the lie of course being that the attacks on him are actually accusing him of terrorism (i.e. being a terrorist). No one more or less has said such a thing (apart from maybe one person at one McCain/Palin rally in the entire country ha ha). The response - the strawman argument - is clever in its conception because ontop of the positive effects strawmen arguments can have when people are unaware of the straw, it also creates the lie that Obama is being smeared in this way by Republics. "Poor Obama! Look what the dirt-throwing Republicans are saying about him"! Thus adding to the myth that Obama has been the victim of a smear assualt by the Republicans - a truly insane myth - but one believed by most. And liberals think Christians are stupid for beliving in creation myths ...

Do you see?

EscapeVelocity

Melanie Philips, Ive become a big fan of yours. Keep up the great work.

PS - Dont be so hard on libertarians.

Conservative Cabbie

Huw & Phil

Loads of fares Phil, sorry I wasn't so prompt in replying.

In answer to what Huw said. Sadly I don't think the ability to campaign well has any relation to how effective a President one will be. I favour such intangibles as honesty, integrity, idealogical steadfastness, the ability to relate to the electorate and a lack of arrogance. sadly Obama has none of these qualities.

Phil

Fair enough, obviously I disagree but that's the advantage of a free society. I was going to insert something about society being less free under an Obama presidency but thought I'd go for sensible rather than otherwise.
As for Sarah Palin, she is unique among major politicians today in that she speaks to my values directly, I haven't found another like that. You talk about intelligence. B.O. (my thats some unfortunate initials) is an eloquent and thoughtful man. I just don't believe that's enough for a President, see my reply to Huw earlier. I worry about a so called intelligent man who for example feels that referring Russia to the UN security council following their invasion of Georgia is the right course. Even I know they have a veto, why doesn't Obama? I worry about a man that believes raising taxes during a recession is the correct course of action, conventional wisdom says otherwise. I worry that when facing a record deficit with an additional 700 billion being spent, he can't name a single program he would cut when asked in two debates. You say he's intelligent, he may be academically intelligent, he may also run a reasonable campaign although I would dispute that), I'm just not convinced that he is politically adept enough to be the main man in a predominantly right leaning country.

Hope that was reasonable enough for you (see nothing about ACORN, Wright, Ayers etc).

Ronnie

That's a great post Conservative Cabbie, I'm genuinely grateful for your logic and clarity.

I might disagree with some of what you say, but not as much as you might expect.

Water

Soosh I have misunderstood nothing and in all honesty. This said it did not seem as though you were explaining your opinion the first time around, rather more it seemed as though you were stating it… but whatever is befitting.

Maybe you have misunderstood me, it would certainly seem so. Now if you allude to my post dating ‘October 18th, 2008 1:16pm’ you will find I stated:

“The haystacks acknowledged [inferring that I understood everything you have stated], would you agree that the points raised in this article by Mel are hardly fallacious? ‘The fraud we can believe in’ entry was compelling to say the least”.

As such the question was a simple one, are you saying Mel’s argument is fallacious? Also there was one last point, do you think as I stated last time

“People would hold McCain in the same light were he to have had relations of the same nature as Obama in his past, though, of a Caucasian racist inclination, as is so prevalent in certain parts of the US”.

The other points you have stated are appreciated though that is not what I was questioning.

Cabbie good points.

Water

Also raising taxes would aid state possession of properties, for those on the brink, which sounds socialist enough for my liking. Not that I am saying this is the case, of course, but it wouldn’t do any harm in spreading the products of bricks and mortar.

Conservative Cabbie

Ronnie & Water

Thankyou.

Ronnie

The temperate me came out to play today. I don't know how long I'll be able to keep the other me under control. Probably until Israel comes here with another of his moral equivalence posts :-)

Water

No worries Cabbie

phil

Conservative Cabbie-glad to see you are having a rest from work:)-I take your points ,and on tax I also believe a low tax society is more successful -not only that but incentive for the employer is crucial -I know from previous experience that some employers will just close down rather than suffer high taxation and over- regulation-thereby costing jobs -they are the successful entrepreneurs who have sufficient to do that ,and obviously be job creators .Human nature is such that in the end they say enough is enough "I don't need this".Perhaps sen Obama can be persuaded to think again .

MRS Thatcher did just that,changed the whole scene ,got elected and oversaw a fine economy. I know this happened as I was part of the persuaders !!-Cast your mind back to TES and SET(nonsense from old labour)and a desperately overregulated economy and high,for then, bank rates -a time when people came in for a job interview with no intention of taking the job because they were better off not working -I do realise your fears of Sen Obama but I think times have changed ,and that he has a fine mind and will prove to be a fine President -As to his abilities i,m sure we can agree to disagree on that time will tell .If I am right your cab will be a cadillac rather than a chevy :)

Audrey Sims

I wrote to the McCain campaign before the last debate -- (I don't know what they read, so gave it a try) pointing out almost everything you did. They just don't get it and continue to mention the issues without pointing out Obama's ideology, current threat to education, promotion of radicalization, etc. McCain mentions "socialism" but only in relation to taxation. He doesn't link it to Obama-Ayres Marxist revolutionary ideas. They're letting it slip through their fingers.

Audrey Sims

I wrote to the McCain campaign before the last debate -- (I don't know what they read, so gave it a try) pointing out almost everything you did. They just don't get it and continue to mention the issues without pointing out Obama's ideology, current threat to education, promotion of radicalization, etc. McCain mentions "socialism" but only in relation to taxation. He doesn't link it to Obama-Ayres Marxist revolutionary ideas

Conservative Cabbie

Phil

Hoping for a big effin Palin-esque 4x4.

Happy to agree to disagree. Look, I think in his first term he's not going to be much more than a moderate leftie (by American standards). It's his second term that worries me. Whatever you may feel about his associations, they come from a hard left position. Similarly his early support in the primaries was moveon.org and the Daily Kos. Throw in the CodePink radicals and you have someone who is indebted to the left. I'm not getting all conspiracy theorist here, it's just that politicians usually have political debts to pay. Obama has also seriously moderated his positions on a number of things since the early primaries obviously to make himself look more attractive to the electorate. That's political tactics 101, the question is will he revert to type, will he honour the support given by his early backers or will he just become Clinton mkII.

BTW Absolutely agree with you on tax.

Water

Hey Audrey Sims, I can only but assume you’re talking (with reference) to me. Now, with regards to what you have said, I can’t say I have had the pleasure to write to McCain. Though what I will say is this; you stated “He doesn't link it to Obama-Ayres Marxist revolutionary ideas”, now I made no such assertion with regards to McCain in your framed context, though a separate point entirely of my own, that was all.

Also it’s good that you also pointed out “almost everything” I did. Were I not working of an internet café line I would give a less cursory account of my thoughts and explore the many ways in which your comment could be construed.

phil

Conservative Cabbie-lets "pray" together

Verity

I also posted this over on The Wall, but am not sure how many visitors it gets. Anyway, Joe Biden has just announced that if Obama is elected, there will be an international crisis within six months.

Way to go, Joe! Many thanks!

Poosh

Sorry Water ( I called you Walter earlier, my apologies! My brain did that thing where it fills in letters). I cannot fault Melanie's writing.

McCain did not do what Melanie hoped and it did not come off too well in the debate. I am not saying Obama is telling the truth, he is a slippery liar, but he had pre-written answers which to most would sound like he told McCain where to go.

It is self-evident that if McCain had even less dubious dealings with such men, though on the right, he would have been toast as they say in a few mere days. The thing is Water as Melanie often states, we're living in insane times. I have no hope left in humanity. The very fact that people actually hate McCain (I beleive someone fired a round at a McCain Bus in the last day) shows how mental the world is.

Everything you have written is to me obviously correct Water as well. I was a bit confused cause I thought you thought I was not in agreement with you/ perhaps my fault.

I think it is a problem though when you try to link Obama to these Ayers-ish marxist ideas because it often comes down to Obama's word against your own beliefs. He says he 'had' to work with Ayers and barely talked to him - I personally think he did more than talk to him and Ayers probably had *some* influence on him. However at the end of the day I think *most* people wil beleive Obama - not because he has a record of honesty but for the simple fact that he speaks well and can smile - i.e he appears to be honest. He's a used-car saleman and he does it *so* well.

Conservative Cabbie

Phil

The only thing I'll be praying for is a Sarah Palin Presidency at some stage in the future (and that I'll win the lottery).

Not sure you'll be joining me down on one knee for that one :-).

Ronnie

Oh Verity, he pointed out that there would very likely be an international crisis within six months of Obama being elected (a bit arrogant I thought). The crisis would not erupt as a result of Obama being elected.

Do pay attention. Talk about spin?

Conservative Cabbie

Ronnie

You're wrong. The point he was making was that a country will test his inexperience by seeing how he responds to an international crisis. They would not take the same action if McCain wins the election.

Ronnie

Hi again, Conservative Cabbbie.

I think a test within six months is likely no matter who becomes president. There are many issues unresolved out there and either Obama or McCain will have to deal with.

I don't honestly see why you think it won't happen if McCain wins. Iran will want to test his resolve just as much as they'll want to guage Obama's.

Can I please pray with you for a lottery win too?

Water

Apology accepted and a used car salesmen sounds about right for him, though the thing is he is selling more then rusty cars now (and as you quite rightly say, self evidently, these are more then just crazy nights). This said, I don’t blame you for having given up, when the proponent of hope is Obama, well you end up with a ghastly conundrum. With a clown to the left of them and McCain to the right you can’t help but feel pity for the children trapped in the tube, for the left seems to be taking a hold of it.

With regards to your thoughts on McCain and the debate it’s all very well, though, McCain should defiantly kick up more fuss about this now, hence my bloggin.

Further more, of course it is self evident that McCain hasn’t had dealings of the sort that I mentioned, especially if you condone the war he was involved in (but did not create, thus he is a hero)… but this done and said it is a testament to Obama and his ability to sell well a truck load full rubbish and as such should be acknowledged on every given occasion in hope that he doesn’t become the most powerful man in the world.

Also please read my last post more carefully, you will find that I stated the following (notice the quotation marks within the quotation marks):

“Though what I will say is this; you stated “He doesn't link it to Obama-Ayres Marxist revolutionary ideas”, now I made no such assertion with regards to McCain in your framed context, though a separate point entirely of my own, that was all.”

Now you will find I was typing with reference to Audrey Sims and her (well what I could only assume to be a woman) relating to such idea, I SAID NO SUCH THING! I merely quoted her. You see I merely made a separate point in relation to taxation and the reciprocal effect ‘this could’ be seen to have upon those who houses are on the brink of repossession due to the current financial climate.

Also in Audrey Sims saying she pointed out nearly everything that I said, this isn’t to say the dice move in the opposite fashion, I by no means pointed out everything she did.

Please read my last post again please.

Now you may see what I have written, but hopefully you will understand this time around.

Water

With you on the lottery cabbie

phil

Conservative Cabbie -don't know about the knees but i am with you on the lottery - I think I would use some of it to pay for some education for some of the posters here,who no matter how many times I read their stuff I do not know what they are trying to say -There are many complicated minds at work here on what is a very simple subject ,i,e who do you trust to do the job ? You have stated where that lies for you and I am happy to except you mean well ,as I do ..

We have said our piece without insults and lies ,so maybe we have persuaded the odd one to think again -in the end we shall see what we shall see .I believe neither of us is on an ego trip ,which I wish I could say about some who have posted here and who have turned this into a a pretty disgusting exchange of ideas including references to the colour of sen Obamas skin.

No doubt we will speak again, meanwhile best wishes to you

Conservative Cabbie

Ronnie

Only if you win in a different week, unlike Obama, I don't want to share the wealth. No offence.

You may be right on McCain, I was just responding to your point that Biden didn't say it exclusively about Obama. He did.

Let's be honest, the Dems are really trying to shoot themselves in the foot here. They were walking to a win and then:

1.Obama tells a member of the public something he's successfully avoided telling the media for 18 months about sharing the wealth.

2.Having done that, the Dems attack poor old Joe for having the audacity to ask Obama a question.

3. Obama tells the people of Phillie he's supporting their team in the baseball world series. Then goes to Tampa and tells them exactly the same thing. This is in two swing states where every vote counts.

4. John Murtha (Democrat) says the people of western pennsylvania are racist. By way of apology he changes it to only being rednecks.

5. Joe Biden makes his gaffe.

Not a good week for the Democrats. And what is it about the name Joe. Palin refers to Joe Sixpack to show she's one of the people and then we have Joe the Plumber and joe Biden. Methinks there is a message here, perhaps a connection to another famous Joe - Stalin who was a communist like Ayers. More proof for you there Ronnie.

Water

Hope you caught the C4 news, the FBI are looking into matters now. At least that is one positive step, or so it would seem.

Conservative Cabbie

Phil

Best to you too.

I think things will get heated here over the next two weeks as we get down to Nov 4th, it is the nature of anonymous online political discourse unfortunately. I always prefer reasoned debate over mud slinging, it accomplishes so much more. That's not too say I won't respond when some attack my values and beliefs unfairly.

We shall see on Nov 5th, I'm doubtful about my chances but not throwing the towel in just yet.

All the best.

Water

Politics and reason a wonderful idea.