The sacrifice of truth to power

Verity

Awesome, Melanie.

David

"What’s happening in this terrifying, Orwellian US presidential race"

I stopped reading at this; it's my full quota of hysteria for the week.

Sherry Gerald

Absolutely spot on, Melanie!
I'm terrified of what life's going to be like if Obama wins the White House, and the Democrats control both houses of Congress - I'm afraid America will no longer be the 'land of the free and the home of the brave.'
One of the reasons Obama cites that Americans should vote for him is to restore our international image, which has been so 'badly tarnished' by Bush and the Republicans. All that hysterical Bush-hating screaming and shrieking by Europe is finally going to pay off, you're going to get your dream weakling U.S. president. And, by the way, Democrat Barney Frank has already recommended cutting the military budget by a third, so you people should probably start beefing up your own defenses - be careful what you wish for!

John Lankford

WOW! Nail -- meet hammer!

John Morton

To call the American Big Media a Fifth column may sound alarmist to some, but it accurately reflects reality. That they have become the propaganda arm of the far left, particularly during this election, is now clear for all to see. Honest, even-handed journalism has died in America, and because of it our republic itself is in peril. My only hope is that the heads of the major networks and newspapers (NBC, MSNBC, CNN, CBS, ABC, NY Times, LA Times, Washington Post, etc.) will some day be called to account for this treachery, which is not too strong a word for what they have done.

Michael Lloyd

The Americans that are willing to die for their country, are unwilling to die for Obama. It won't take Russia long to realize that America's men are done dying for other countries. Good-bye Georgia, Good-bye Ukraine, Good-bye Poland. And once the bear consumes those countries with no response, it will look for other easy meat.

Pot Head

Give it up Mel it's over you lost we won.

No one's listening. Its boring and getting a bit pathetic.

Susan in Texas

Well said, Melanie.
I'm losing sleep over this, and I'm worried sick about the direction of the US. The electorate is ignorant, the media refuses to do its job, and the leftists are steamrolling right over the rest of us. In my circle, the great majority are voting for McCain. The two Obama voters I know are beyond reason. Obama is their beautiful saviour.
God help us.

david skinner

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/us_elections_2008/7691631.stm

God Help America

idov

Prominent Jerusalem lawyer Ron Festinger, writing on the web site of the Israel's largest mass circulation daily Yedioth Ahronot Oct. 26, said that if Obama were in Israel he would go to prison for five years for accepting land next to his home from Tony Rezko, now a convicted felon.

The story was published only in Hebrew. I did this English translation.

http://www.root-1.co.il/corruption.htm

For those who read Hebrew, here is the original.

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3612196,00.html

exDemocrat

Wow, so there's ONE journalist left across the pond.

As Brits watch their own once-great Commonwealth embrace sharia law (what are you thinking?), we Americans have our own cross to bear: Barack Obama and his marxist friends and the media backing him 24/7/365.

I am voting for McCain/Palin and working my arse off to get them elected.

No matter the results on November 4th, I will next be working my arse off to destroy (figuratively? or not) the mainstream media and its ilk.

The BBC may even be worse than our current media, so no gloating.

On the other hand, if Bill Ayers gets his wish for "anarchy" in the 'States, rest assured that I will be exercising my new anarchist "rights" upon---you guessed it---Bill Ayers.

Grow some spine Brits...the spine you had when the Nazis were bombing the island nightly.

America baby....now and forever.

--An American Patriot

Doug

This is a fantastic article. I think a key point is not that Americans don't care about these issues, but don't know about them. The press in the U.S. will not report on anything that they think will hurt the Obama election. They will have front page stories on Palin's dresses but look the other way in reporting on ACORN and Obama. They do not even pretend to be objective anymore.

Highlander

Melanie,

I'm hoping for a miracle right now. There is still a chance Obama can be defeated, but there are so many Americans who yet ave no idea who or what Obama is. Too many still get their news from the MSM, and they eagerly drink up their lies. Many others cast their votes on a whim. When I hear their rationalizations, I want to weep. Bottomline: if Obama wins, it will be on the backs of a profoundly ignorant electorate. They will have earned their reward. The rest of us do not deserve such a fate, but we will fight on.

d1carter

I am praying that the American people will wake up in the voting booth. God save the USA!

Michael B

Yes. I'd place slightly different emphases and de-emphases in some areas, but in the main: Yes. The theme, "the sacrifice of truth to power," is most certainly representative of what is occurring. That is evidenced in many ways, on many different levels, but the manner and frequency with which a flippant and even sneering and vapid dismissiveness is invoked to counter responsible lines of inquiry is but one tell-tale indicator.

Verity

God, this blog is a tenth rate outfit, no matter the prestigious name. They have writers of the international quality and name recognition of Melanie Phillips, and they have, I suspect, one techie who puts up the comments. Melanie writes something outstanding, at a critical period for the politics of the Western world and it is going to be at least 12 hours before responses to her post are posted.

Surreal.

beckyfromfairview

Well said. God help us all.

Omar

Obama interview from 2001

- Confirmed -

He's a socialist with little to no regard for the constitution -or the truth:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31702_Obama_on_the_Redistribution_of_Wealth/comments/#ctop

Maureen B. Rice

Thank you. Your comments exactly describe the atmosphere here in Seattle. Supporters of McCain at my workplace are like a secret society. If Joe's life can be eviscerated in the service of a candidate, and Sarah Palin demeaned unrelentingly, what will happen if Sen. Obama is elected? Nothing can be said about him, no speculation about the mysteries in his life is permitted, his college records and medical records not provided: all inquiry is brushed aside in this stampede. We're to beoutraged at Palin's wardrobe budget, while ACORN's frauds, and now the emerging Obama campaign credit frauds, don't interest most news outlets. Whether I agree with McCain on every issue or not, I believe he is an honorable man, with the country's best interests at heart. The only interest Obama has shown has been in his own climb, using a troubling array of associates, as they think they are using him. But who he is at heart, no-one knows.
Yet I have faith that the American people, who are too busy working and living their lives to be screaming at rallies, will not elect this cypher.

Hayward Maberley

Among the Inmates, a brief report from one of the most rational boggers at The Spectator, Clive Davis.

Philip Horowitz

Melanie, to be brief. I certainly agree with you that "swathes of the UK population decided that ‘America had it coming to it’ because it supported Israel, and that George W Bush was the most dangerous man on the planet." But I am less sure that many Americans take so pathological a view - and I do live half of the time in California and move in strongly liberal Democrat circles.

I think people are rejecting Bush and the Republicans (and even the Republicans are rejecting Bush) because of the economic downturn and consequent fear for their jobs, homes and health care. I suspect many are also concerned about the costs of wars whose point may not seem all that clear to them.

I agree that Obama is something of an unknown but he has fought and managed and led a huge and wonderfully managed campaign which is an achievement that deserves respect.

To say that he will bring Socialism to the US seems silly to me unless you regard New Deal type measures as socialistic - and if you do, you put yourself on the far end of the US political spectrum and one which, after all, is probably being rejected by American voters.

As to Israel, I believe and hope that things will not be so dire as you claim. I doubt Obama will be as hostile to Israel as Bush père and popular sentiment would not allow him to run the kind ofpoilicy the Guardian would approve of and you and I fear.

HarleyDavidson

Obama's Chicago. THe Messiah who is going to "fix" America.

Body count. In the last six months 292 killed (murdered) in Chicago, 221 killed in Iraq.

Sens. Barack Obama & Dick Durbin, Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., Gov. Rod Blogojevich, House leader Mike Madigan, Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan, Mayor Richard Daley. . . . our leadership in Illinois. . . . all Democrats. Thank you for the combat zone in Chicago (a lot of good gun control does, huh?). Of course they're all blaming each other. Can't blame Republicans, there aren't any!

State pension fund $44 Billion in debt, worst in country. Cook County (Chicago) sales tax 10.25% highest in country. (Look'em up if you want). Chicago school system one of the worst in country. This is the political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois. He's gonna 'fix' Washington politics? Give me a break!!!

Ronnie

'Over the past seven years, the media has created the Big Lie that America is the biggest rogue state in the world'

It is reported that US forces launched an attack inside Syria killing eight people, including four children.

Join the dots.

Paul Weston

The biggest catastrophe of an Obama win will be the pre-emptive strike by Israel on Iran.

US elections are November the 4th, with the winner taking office on January 20th 2009.

If Israel genuinely believes that Iran will develop a nuclear weapon, be it in 2009 or 2011, then they have no option but to strike at some point in the future.

If Israel believes they will receive no support from an Obama led US, then they will have to strike before Obama comes to power.

If Obama triumphs on November 4th, it is likely that Israel would strike Iran before Christmas, with the support of George Bush.

Having said that, I still have confidence that the American people are not quite as gullible as the left leaning media think.

An Obama win is not a total certainty by any means.

And pray, for the sake of innocent Iranians, Israelis and the world, that Obama is rumbled before November 4th.

Conservative Cabbie

And the American public are sleepwalking into this, remarkable.

However I suppose when you don't have the media to open you're eyes, that's what happens.

My god, I hope they wake up in the next week.

lizzy

It is frightening. All you have mentioned above seems like insanity or a bad dream that never seems to end. Obama is the Manchurian candidate.

fellow traveller

One thing that has popped up before which I don't understand is Joe the Plumber:

"the press took apart the private life of an average person who had the temerity to ask a tough question of a presidential candidate... So much for speaking truth to power."

The press didn't do it because Obama told them to do it, they did it because Joe raised interesting points which McCain chose to bring up in the presidential debate. The media went out to find his story - all media, both pro-McCain and pro-Obama - so they could explain it to their readers. Turns out he wasn't quite what he claimed.

But it's essential for the press to find that out too, otherwise they would report as true every story told by anyone, anywhere.

It was not good news for Joe. But I don't see how the press *doing their job* can be blamed on some sort of pro-Obama bias.

Robert B Turkington

If only Melanie were writing in the NY Times....she is a voice America should be hearing.

Huw Thornton

FWIW I kind of agree with you, Melanie, about the way in which the "America had it coming" ideas built up in the UK. But nothing in your article shows that Obama believes this, or would endorse individuals or groups which believe this way. Are you anyway perhaps conflating exaggerations and myths prevalent in Europe with mainstream American ideas?

I would agree with you about the prevalence of this way of thinking in the UK. To change the subject slightly, I have been to several events (social meetings, even one wedding) where much worse sentiments were expressed than the ones you quote in your article. For anyone who wishes to show dissent, there is no good way of expressing disapproval - do you leave the event (quietly or noisily) or disrupt a social event by heckling? Genuinely, I do not know a good answer to this one.

And I'm not talking about events organised by racists or ideological nutters - just social events with mainstream people.

That's the danger of the kind of consensus thinking which you mention, Melanie. I just don't think that you've got any real evidence about Obama's involvement.

Dee Ranged

Wow!

roGER

"...hatred and hysteria which history tells us presages the twilight of freedom."

Alarmist twaddle that insults a great country and a great people.

And for your information, an election can't be "Orwellian." There were no elections in Oceania...

steve

Yes, it's all the fault of the media and the ignorant voters. Nothing to do with the economic malaise, the unpopularity of the Bush administration, the waste in lives and money through the war in Iraq, the failure to get bin Laden, a poorly run McCain campaign, choosing a vice president so lacking in knowledge that she can't even be allowed to hold a press conference, etc. And a candidate in Obama who has run a strong campaign after he similarly toppled Hillary Clinton's hold on the Democratic Party. You can mock the message, but hope and a positve outlook on the future of one's country actually draws more support than fear. So be bitter if you want and blame everyone else in the most exaggerated rhetoric imaginable (accusing Obama of seeking to "crush America and destroy Israel") but ultimately the Republican Party is in a lot of trouble and needs to do some reflecting once out of power (as conservatives such as David Frum who actually think about such matters have already argued) or it faces being marginalized for a considerable time.

Allan@Aberdeen

It's forty years from 1968 to 2008 but the soixante-huitards are on the brink of their greatest 'accomplishment' in their long campaign to destroy the west from within: to have one of their own as US President. What a disaster that would be for all of us.

Augustus

Why is America slumbering in a torpor of indifference and complacency? Not only is there a consortium of countries (Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela) with a common aim of reducing her economic, political, and military influence, and whose common goal is to change the world from a unipolar to a multipolar world, there is also the Islamic Salafist/ Wahhabist movement, financed by her so-called 'ally' Saudi Arabia, and motivated by a seething hatred of the USA and western democracy, and aiming to establish a worldwide Islamic caliphate, ruled by mullahs who want to revert to the good old days when the Prophet ruled by the sword, everyone studied the Koran, and non-believers (Christians and Jews) converted on pain of death.

Meanwhile, all these very real threats are compounded by a revisionist Marxist movement from within America, trying desperately to subvert and replace her values and institutions, and above all, her religious traditions, with secular humanism. All in preparation for an extremist socialist state.

Verity

Philip Horowitz writes: "... Obama is something of an unknown" (something of an unknown! Well, that's one way of putting it) "but he has fought and managed and led a huge and wonderfully managed campaign which is an achievement that deserves respect."

Incorrect. He hasn't managed or led anything in his life. He has always moved and acted at the behest of others who gave him his orders. His campaign has been managed by thuggish, experienced, dirty fighters.

Name one thing Obama has managed in his entire life. Repeat: zero.

Seven hundred million dollars - pissed away on the Obama campaign (oooooh, how many poor people could that buy housing for?) and all he's got to show for it is a 2.5 per cent lead as of yesterday.

You go on: "To say that he will bring Socialism to the US seems silly to me unless you regard New Deal type measures as socialistic."

Which they unquestionably were. That was the start of socialism in the US. Followed by LBJ's Great Society, which took Americans further down the path to welfare dependence. Dependence on the government as The Great Provider has never been a good idea in human history.

Huw Thornton asks, through mind-boggling ignorance, "Are you anyway perhaps conflating exaggerations and myths prevalent in Europe with mainstream American ideas?"

Huw, Huw, Huw - Britain is Britain. Europe as an entity doesn't exist. It's around 25 different countries with different governments and different traditions. The French and the British and the Germans are miles apart philosophically - and on the continent of Europe, they're kilometres apart. Geddit? I believe Melanie probably has the edge on you in her knowledge of the political scenes in Britain and Europe. Where the hell are you posting from, anyway?

The rest of your post is similarly ill-informed drivel.

Ganpat Ram

Verity: Would it not do Israel a world of good if it was forced to stand alone rather than depend on the US?

Israel has always been at its best when relying on itself.

I find Melanie's alarmism a trifle boring.

The Reopublicans need a walloping to clear their heads of their self-indulgent fixations about abortion and the like.

Obama, whom I do not like, will give it to them.

The Right have had it too easy for too long.

Pay up time.

In any case, who will ge more disillusioned than Obamites, after a year?

Gore, that rare serious man, for 2012.

Emmet

Dave, I suppose it was hysteria too when people worried about Pulitzer Prizewinner Mr Duranty (of that beacon of truth The New York Times) twisting the truth and reporting that Stalin was a great guy building a perfect society.

Ronnie

Augustus, that's not the half of it. You completely forgot to mention the Hittites...!

Everyone thought they had been well and truly smote; but who do you think is actually behind all the terrible dangers you talk about? Why do you think Senator Obama has been so coy about his real origins?

Thats right, the penny starts to drop.

Kennybhoy

conservative cabbie,

Further to Verity's comments above,they finally let me reply to your post of the 21st back at the "Does he even know whose side he's on?" discussion.

Keep the faith!

Kenny

ME

Fellow traveler - The press is biased because in one 24 hour news cycle they invested more resources towards bringing down a plumber from Toledo than they have in 12 months to informing the American people about the Democratic nominee for the Presidency. That's not just bias, it's blinkered electioneering.

Melanie, Philip Horowitz is typical of many Obama supporters. They are so caught up in the economy and the fiction that tax policies had something to do with a gross negligence of the credit market (for which both parties deserve some blame but for which the Democrats, against the advice of their own former president greatly enable by changing the fundamental requirements for loans and pushing forth risky loans in the name of the same kind of redistributionism that Obama favors) that they hopefully ignore the international danger that Obama presents.

Indeed, when you listen to some "conservatives" who have endorsed Obama, "hope" is the word that keeps coming up.

I thought conservatism was about seeing the world as it is based on hard experience. I'm glad to see you still understand that, where both Obama and McCain are concerned.

ME

Ganpat Ram rather self-indulgently writes: "The Reopublicans need a walloping to clear their heads of their self-indulgent fixations about abortion and the like."

So, the deaths of millions of unborn children is a "self-indulgent fixation?" This is the kind of unserious, petulant response that has propelled Obama to his current heights. Obama would not even support legislation in the Illinois statehouse to protect the lives of infants born alive during "botched" abortions (and the usual Obama-speak on this issue is transparently false - the existing law did not protect the infants due to questions of "viability" and the language in the law Obama voted against was identical to legislation Obama claimed he would have supported - even his campaign staff had to admit that, after Obama called others who pointed out the fact liars).

This kind of unseriousness demonstrates that we are not dealing with a reasonable electorate, even without the financial crisis.

nathan

Our country elects the leaders it deserves, and nobody deserves Barack Obama more than George W. Bush. Anger is a natural successor to fear, and both emotions are easy for politicians (and the media) to control. In 2004, we voted in fear. Now we're voting in anger. Don't like it? Stay on the other side of the pond.

Israel

from the blog of Atrios:

Financial Times, rejects incompetence, endorses Obama:

"Nonetheless, a campaign is a test of leadership. Mr Obama ran his superbly; Mr McCain’s has often looked a shambles. After eight years of George W. Bush, the steady competence of the Obama operation commands respect."

There are 160 newspapers in the states endorsing Obama and 59 in favour of McCain due to his incredulous pick of Palin and his response to the economic crisis.

In the news pages, they've been pretty much okay with Teh Socialism.

Mark Pendray

Excellent article as normal. Melanie is one of the best columnists in the UK. Dead smart, courageous, and she does her research.

Conservative Cabbie

Kenny

I'm desperately clinging onto my faith at the moment throgh bleeding fingernails, gritted teeth, buckets of sweat and wavering will power.

Whilst I don't think it's entirely certain that Obama will win, I'm being drawn more and more towards following a potential republican primary season and the manouverings beforehand. Only three and a half years to go.

Thanks for your belated reply.

Verity

Ganpat Ram asks me, inexplicably, "Verity: Would it not do Israel a world of good if it was forced to stand alone rather than depend on the US?"

I know very little about Israel, Ganpat, except that it is a tiny country, it is a formidable ally, and it has a right to exist unmolested. You are addressing your question to the wrong person.

However, from a non-emotionally involved observer, let me ask you this: what "world of good" would derive from forcing this tiny, brave entity, surrounded by enemies, to stand alone? I have sometimes found your comments interesting, but this one seems surreal.

You then bounce back to the US: "The Right have had it too easy for too long."

You refer to the eight years cleaning up after the incompetent Clintons? ... and the incompetent Jimmuh Cadhuh?

Conservative Cabbie

@Ganpat Ram.

Abortion a "self-inflicted fixation", where does that come from?

It is literally a life or death question. Slightly more important than a fixation.

fellow traveller

ME: "The press is biased because in one 24 hour news cycle they invested more resources towards bringing down a plumber from Toledo than they have in 12 months to informing the American people about the Democratic nominee for the Presidency."

No they didn't.

They followed the story for a day. Which is clearly what McCain, who has years of experience courting the press, calculated they would do. That's the only reason McCain mentioned him. McCain put this in play because he thought Joe was an advantage for him.

The fact that it didn't play out like McCain expected it to is symptomatic of his ham-fisted strategy in not checking Joe out first, rather than some press conspiracy to save Obama from scrutiny.

Spike

From the BBC's news report on the US/Syria attack:

"It's clear that if Senator Barrack Obama were to win the White House, his key advisers are among the strongest advocates of engaging with Damascus across a broad spectrum of issues."

Proof, again, of how bent the BBC continues to be.

Spike

fellow traveller: Dead wrong. Joe the plumber played out brilliantly for McCain. The message id Not the plumber, but what The Messiah said in response. "....spread the wealth around". It finally slipped out. He a Marxist. Perhaps like you?

Sherwyn Nabors

Even with the main stream media intentionally blocking, withholding or not tell the whole truth of Mr. Obama, his friends or lack thereof all of a sudden....ENOUGH TRUTH OF HIM AS GOTTEN OUT ANYWAY, SO THAT IF YOU VOTE FOR HIM, YOU STILL KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING. Then what CHANGE will you wish for? As you blindly follow a man with such a lacking of experience and so much criminal connections, let me ask you a question? What do we all tell children about not hanging around with the wrong people of questionable behavior and known bad people? PLEASE take some of your own 'medicine'!

Kram Ekosum

Verity, Melanie. Come off it... How different is Obamessiah really from Blair and Bill Clinton? The current Democrats are still to the extreme Right of the British Labour Party, for goodness sake! If the Republicans had ACTUALLY BEEN fiscal conservatives would there be any question marks over their stewardship the last 7 years?! Huw Thornton, you are a sensible and thoughtful chap. Let the petty insults drop off you. Just because one is not a liberal does not make you hate anything not right wing. The big O is not some sort of puppet from a quasi Sci-fi film. He will still be bombing countries and protecting the US economy from competition. STOP the scare-mongering and realize that despite credit default swaps, Lehman Brothers, Iraq, Halliburton et al America remains one of the most pluralist nations in history. Their main problem is that the military industrial complex has far too much influence and their top politicians are fundamentally always concerned about issues of War. Until this stops there will never be peace and prosperity in the World. Of course the bind remains that if MIC winds down many trillions of dollars would go missing and jobs will disappear both home(US) and abroad. That could never happen, could it?!

logdon

"Pot Head
October 26th, 2008 11:36pm
Give it up Mel it's over you lost we won.

No one's listening. Its boring and getting a bit pathetic."

I think Pot Head confirms Melanie's point quite aptly. Arrogant little men who should be on the margins of society now talking like the thwarted supremacists they are. Is he a council worker or outreach provider with a gold plated pension and a host of 'jobs' awaiting in the Guardian recruitment section? Ghastly!

The Dandiprat

Once again the question: how come it is left to this one commentator to do the groundwork and provide us with such vital information?

Let's all hope the American level-headed silent majority has something it chooses not to disclose until it has the privacy of the voting booth.

Oh and for YOUR information roGER - Your reading of Orwell is too restrictive. Literature just doesn't work in such a mechanistic, pound-for-pound way.
If in connection with any political/social issue, events unfold in such a manner as to be redolent of the situations portrayed by Orwell, then Orwellian they undoubtedly are.

logdon

"Ronnie
October 27th, 2008 8:08am
'Over the past seven years, the media has created the Big Lie that America is the biggest rogue state in the world'
It is reported that US forces launched an attack inside Syria killing eight people, including four children."
Join the dots.'

As for Ronnie has he heard the word taquiya? Always children isn't it? Tugging at our western heart strings but never a word of the thousands of Palestinian children being indoctrinated by Farfur comic mice and a daily diet of death to the Zionists. Plus the nice little earner this provides for families of the deceased death cult suicide children.

dp damato

The American media cannot control their glee at the prospect of an Obama presidency. They will continue to demean and degrade Palin and McCain to ensure the "One" becomes leader of the world. Their obsessive hatred of the remarkable Palin reflects their fear of conservative America. As much as it pains me to say, the Republicans need to lose this election. We have absolutely nothing relevant to say about economic and health care issues. We have allowed our business wing of the party (and their worship of the free market) shackle any efforts to pragmatically address the bread and butter issues. We refused to crack down on oil speculation, allowed "big oil" to reap huge profits while keeping gas prices high, allowed Wall St. speculators to run our economy into the ground, and most importantly did nothing about health care costs. Health care is an important issue but we do not touch it - so afraid to offend our anti government wing/ free market absolutists. This needs to change and the only way it will change is to marginalize the anti government wing. Only an election loss can bring about this change.
Fear not Melanie cultural conservatism and national security conservatism is alive and well, it is our libertarian wing that will have to go. They got us into this mess and they will have to pay the consequences. The Republican brand will always be strong, and after this election wayward Republicans disgusted with Bush's embrace of big oil and Wall St., will come home.
No Republican will ever forget the bile and hatred coming from the Left during this election. Readers of Melanie should never ever believe the "tolerance" mantra that the Left always attributes to itself. The unrelenting bile and gutter language of this campaign has come from NBC, the New York Times, the academic elite, the Hollywood blogosphere, the upper west side of Manhattan, and all the various left wing victim groups and so called human rights organizations. They will have their day in the sun, but we will be back. Their ridiculous claims to tolerance and enlightenment has been exposed. Their agenda never more transparent. Obama will quickly be seen as a false prophet, and all who supported him will repent and ask conservatives for forgiveness. IF we begin to address health care, we will retake the congress in 2010, and the presidency will be ours in 2012.

Verity

Kram Ekosum - "Verity, Melanie. Come off it... How different is Obamessiah really from Blair and Bill Clinton?"

Barely at all. His advisors are sharper operators and even more thuggish than Blair's and Clinton's advisors, his connections to mobsters have a longer history, his life has more hidden nooks and crannies that the media forgives him ... but the three of them are cut from the same cloth.

Logdon - a very astute post. (But I don't think you understand taqqiya.)

Ronnie

logdon, you are absolutely right. You have shown me the light.

What are the lives four particular children worth set beside the perpetual, and righteous, struggle of your choice?

You are in a deep hole of sick justification. Stop digging.

Ronnie

The Dandiprat, I guess the answer to your question is that so few writers are psychologically pre-disposed to write this kind of stuff.

I don't think we should argue with Melanie about her use of 'Orwellian'. She did, after all, win the Orwell prize.

Ronnie

Spike, Conservative Cabby often reasonably asks why the right are abused as being thick, and actually, there you are...

1 One of the major keys to moving things forward in the middle east is to break up the 'alliance' between Syria and Iran. Syria has shown itself willing to talk recently and to engage seriously in discussions with Israel. Syria now wants its economic development to speed up and they do not want to be held back by their previously counter-productive strategic policies any longer.

Of course, it might not come to anything but its worth a try. Do you have a better plan? Of course you have - economic warfare through continued sanctions and more bombing.

2 If we accept that western economies are now driven by enourmous levels of consumer spending, what is the thing that all these millions of consumers need in order for their economies to keep moving? Yes, that's right, sustainable levels of wealth.

Actually not spreading the wealth around is harmful to economic growth because you simply reduce the number of customers. Its actually quite simple and there is certainly nothing Marxist about it.

You have a better idea? Oh yes, mass unemployment and poverty.

You might not realise this but the availability of massive levels of credit to the entire population is actually privatised welfare. But of course, that system has now collapsed.

Huw Thornton

@ Verity -

Thanks for the feedback. I'd like to discuss points further with you, but I think we're on different planets - not least geographically, since I'm not sure that we'd be able to agree even on the location of the UK.

@Kram Ekosum

Thanks for your comments, and I think you've got a wise standpoint amongst all the hysteria. The US will still stay one of the most pluralist of all countries, whatever happens in the election. This is the source of strength which will get them through any twists and turns in the next few years.

The Misanthropist

What staggers me about me and all the other articulate, philosophically incisive posters on this site is why, with all the evidence of history staring us in the face, we still expect any political intelligence from the Lumpen proletariat or Lumpen bourgeoisie? - Of course they'll vote for the plausible stooge and shyster with the bright shiny teeth! That's what shallow-pated gullible morons always do! It'd be astounding if they did anything different! But these things go in cycles. Let's face it: this particular battle against Socialism is lost. The socio-intellectual war, however, is long-term. All we can do presently is regroup, and leave them to their drunken triumphalism. Subsequently, when, invested with the challenge of power, they begin to argue among themselves as bullies always do, then we can begin to fight a selective rearguard action - turn philosophical terrorists ourselves, if you like, and, in coming decades, begin to turn the tables by embarking on an even longer march through THEIR institutions! Obama's investiture marks the crest of their wave, a wave that must at some stage, crash and dissolve on some rocky shoreline...

Frank P

Spike

"Spread the wealth around"

You got it! Listen to it from the mouth of The Messiah himself, where he elucidates a little more comprehensively(and frankly) about what his intentions might be if he picks up the Presidency:

http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/bad_americans/socialism_sells.php

As for "Fellow Traveller": Marxist? I think we can find a clue in his non-de-plume, Spike!

EC

Religion gets God a bad name.

fellow traveller

Spike: "...spread the wealth around". It finally slipped out. He a Marxist. Perhaps like you?"

If prioritising help for the middle classes ahead of the super-rich is marxism, count me in. But it isn't, as anyone who has even looked up Marxism on Wikipedia would know.

But it's so much easier to believe everything you're told by politicians you want to believe - while criticising that trait in others.

Meanwhile, if it all worked so brilliantly for McCain, why whinge about liberal media bias? They did what you wanted!

EC

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." Denis Diderot

Once upon a time in a land far, far in the future Rowan might actually do something useful .....

Robert J. Avrech

Mr. Horowitz:

You write:

I agree that Obama is something of an unknown but he has fought and managed and led a huge and wonderfully managed campaign which is an achievement that deserves respect.

Sandra

Ronnie says: "Syria has shown itself willing to talk recently and to engage seriously in discussions with Israel."

So why was it caught red-handed trying to build a nuclear reactor that Israel had to blow up?

The recent US raid was not an attack on Syrian sovereignty, it is merely that the US is fed up with troublemakers trying to stir up trouble in Afghanistan and Iraq and intends to deal with them, to the benefit of coalition soldiers and innocent Iraqi and Afganistan.

People like Ronnie bleated away when the suicide bombs were going off a dozen to the day in Iraq, the US goes after the source, an arm's smuggler, saves hundreds of lives and Ronnie bleats.

Yes, it's sad there's always a human shield around these scum, but that's just tough. If we run away from taqyya tactics every time, we're all a goner.

Conservative Cabbie

I found this to be an interesting article (http://tinyurl.com/5scckx) by Bill Greener, a GOP political operative. It basically analyses The Bradley Effect using four races in 2006 involving African-American candidates. His conclusion is that any undecideds right now are effectively people who won't vote Obama because of race and Obama needs to be concerned in any race that he is polling at less than 50%. An extract:
"The University of Cincinnati conducted a poll the day before the gubernatorial election that did not include undecideds. Respondents who initially answered "I don't know" were pushed to reveal which way they were leaning. All respondents were assigned to a candidate.

The results showed Strickland at 59 percent and Blackwell at 37 percent and the independents at 4 percent. That's exactly what each candidate got on Election Day. Now recall that the Survey USA poll of the same race, which did allow respondents to answer "undecided" and was conducted the very same day, showed Strickland's support at 55 percent. It suggests that on Nov. 6, 2006, all the "undecideds" in Ohio, 4 percent of the vote, were really supporters of the white candidate, Ted Strickland."

In the interests of balance, this article takes issue with the above. http://tinyurl.com/5j42on

Interesting reads, make up your own mind.

Dr John Montgomery

Ronnie, seems you don't know anything about ecpnomics either. 'Spreading the wealth around' does not lead to more spending over time as investment levels fall and businesses shut up shop. High taxation does not produce wealth. As for mass unemployment, the unemployment rate in the USA is 6%, about half of what it is in France and lower than the UK. Europe is locked into a spiral of low growth because of statist socialism. The US is still not technically in recession, but in any event the coming recession wull be mild and short. Unless, of course, Obama wins in which case the economy will tank for 3-4 years.

Harry

Some of the trollers here on other threads deny the mainstream media smear about race. It's just been used by the BBC - surprise, surprise - on its 10 o'clock BBC1 bulletin by Gavin Hewitt (Oct 27).

It's not the first time but one of them wanted a specific instance. There's one. It's all we've heard for months. You must be deaf if you haven't heard this smear ad infinitum over the last nine months.

Dave M

To Michael Lloyd the question I'd ask is this: Would George W Bush or even Obama, for that matter, sit back and merrily strum their lyres if either Russia or China developed an anti-U.S. alliance on their borders, possibly in South America? The hysteria over Krushchev and Cuba in the sixties would indicate such is not the case. For the average Orthodox Russian, this is how NATO is viewed, (especially after the bombing of Serbia and handover of Kosovo). Of course, the Russians distrust any expansion of NATO either into Georgia or the Ukraine and with good reason. Whether conflict with Russia will be avoided if Obama gets into office is a question that should certainly be considered. As things stand, the whole NATO expansion issue could very well lead to a world war if the successor to Bush continues to ignore Moscow's red line on the issue.

fellow traveller

Don't worry Frank, if I seize power I won't have you and Verity and Cabbie and the guy who kept putting his qualifications on his screen name sent to the Gulag. Not even if President Obama commands me via our secret network! Call it blogger's loyalty.

Callie

Thank you for these posts. Its good to know that with all the Anti-American sentiment in the world, someone overseas sees the truth about this current election.

Nadia

For an even more shocking list of recent Obama associates look here:

http://tinyurl.com/israelo

Real

I find solace in the facts that US Newspapers circulation and evening news audience are dropping by 5% since last year. Continue the Boycot.

John Montgomery

Maybe that would be me Fellow Traveller? Sorry if it offends you. I'm new to blogging, so wasn't aware we are expected to hide behind silly names and pretend we are all thickos. Pol Pot didn't like people with qualifications either, nor did Mao. Mind you, you have a point when it comes to Lord Mandelson or Lord Rogers or Lord 'that idiot from Cumbria that can't write'. Do you have a chip on your shoulder?

Ronnie

Dr John Montgomery, please report back in two month's time and include the USA's debt in your calculations.

logdon

Verity
October 27th, 2008 7:14pm

Logdon - a very astute post. (But I don't think you understand taqqiya.)

Verity

Yes I do. It's just that you don't understand my understanding of it in the brief posting. Robert Spencer is a good start.

Roy

A good post among many others by Misanthropist, one day the wave will indeed break! Being a stoic I can do no other but grin and bare the interim period and relish the seeing of the change appear along with the pain of those who are left to explain their woefulness.

logdon

Ronnie
October 27th, 2008 7:29pm
logdon, you are absolutely right. You have shown me the light.

What are the lives four particular children worth set beside the perpetual, and righteous, struggle of your choice?

You are in a deep hole of sick justification. Stop digging."

Ronnie

So what are the lives of dead Iraqis worth at the hands of suicide killers ably assisted and enabled by Syria? Or do they not count in your monochrome mind? Justify that. US collateral civilian damage is simply that. Collateral. Civilian damage is an inherent part of the Syrian'game'. There is absolutely no comparison except by blind ideologists like you.

Jeff Tyler

The change is near. The new generation is about to be born. And Obama's official site has now a section that explictly targets kids age 12 and under, urging them to ask their parents and grandparents to vote for him. The same age group is protected by regulations even when it comes to marketing of products like candies and cereal.

http://drslogan.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/the-future-has-arrived-barack-obama-targets-kids/

fellow traveller

Dr John: people are pretending all sorts of stuff here, but no one is pretending to be a thicko.

The point is the opposite: your having a doctorate doesn't automatically make your opinions more valuable, just as being a Lord doesn't make you a better person.

fellow traveller

Dr John: "High taxation does not produce wealth."

Quite right, But that's a straw man.

Obama's "spreading the wealth around" means slightly raising the tax burden on households with income over $250,000. They get to keep all the money they would have kept on income under $250K.

This raises the tax burden for 2 per cent of US households. And not, we discovered, for Joe the Plumber.

If this is Marxism, then the list of non-Marxist places to live stops after the Isle of Man and Monaco... Which may be your point of view!

Conservative Cabbie

Fellow traveller

Called out by another leftist, I'm thrilled.

I'm prepared to martyr myself in the name of conservatism. I'd go to the wall sporting a great big USA flag pin chanting "Palin for President" and "I am Joe the conservative martyr".

Conservative Cabbie

Fellow Traveller

He also plans to raise takes on small businesses that earn over 250,000. That may only be 2% of small businesses, unfortunately, those 2% also create 98% of new jobs in the small business sector (the only sector creating new jobs in USA). That's hardly conducive to creating growth.

He also plans to significantly raise taxes for big business. Do you really think that they'll just happily accept this. Of course not, they'll just pass those costs onto their customers meaning that Joe The Taxpayer ends up footing the bill. Of course this is something Obama and his cultist supporters neglect to mention.

logdon

Ronnie,

More on the Syrian raid and not Jeremy Bowen's bent version.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/syria-iraq-bloody-border-messy-politics/

Conservative Cabbie

A message to all you Obama cultists out there who delighted in Colin Powell's endorsement of B.O.

In the trial of Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska who was found guilty on all charges of lying about gifts received, Colin Powell also endorsed Ted Stevens calling him a "trusted individual" and a man with a "sterling" reputation.

My, what a fine judge of character he turned out to be.

A word on the phrase "Obama cultists". I heard Michelle Malkin use it and it seems to accurately represent the blind devotion that so many supporters of Obama seem to display and I like it. Hence I'll continue to use it as a form of ironic jest - it is not meant to be insulting. (Well maybe just a little).

alan

Can you not say what you want to say in, say, a third of the space?

o.u.

Obama has lied so much, and he has so much to lie about.

Conservative Cabbie

If only Sarah Palin had been our PM, maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now.

From CNN.com

A June 30, 2007, Associated Press article quoted Palin as saying "we need to live within our means. … Even though we have a surplus, that doesn't warrant a spending spree on an unlimited credit card. Now is the time to save for the future."

Verity

logdon - Agreed. Robert Spencer is a wonderful start for enlightenment on any aspect of Islam and the current worldwide jihad. I am afraid I still think you misused "taqqya". I do not think that the issue you referred to, sleazy and manipulative as it is, is taqqya. I still think your referring to it was worthwhile, though.

Verity

Real - And it warms the cockles of one's heart to learn that the NY Times is in such dire financial straits that it is slicing entire tranches of its verbose rag.

Jack Burlbaugh

You are right Melanie--please keep telling the truth. It is only going to get worse.

The economic mess brought about by the Liberals who with the aid of the Liberal Press in this country have been able to convince a non questioning public have some how blamed George W. Bush for the actions of Barney Frank and Harry Reid and their co-consipirators--appear ready to vote even greater majorities to the Liberals in Congress. We must remain centered on the truth--for it alone will eventually set us free! And, hopefully with a batch of balanced non biased journalists who can understand the critical value of a true "Free Press!"

Bill Clayton

I've tahnked you for your comments about the American political system several times in the past. Thank you again. I truly fear that the Great American Experiment has finally come to an end. What is it about our species that makes so very many of us march right to the edge of the cliff without saying a word?

steve

Conservative Cabbie: Does spending tens of thousands of dollars on clothes and makeup constitute living within your means? While Palin has energized the core right-wing base, she's damaged McCain among independents and in the context of this election was a major blunder.

fellow traveller

Cabbie

Obama will end tax breaks for companies who are moving jobs overseas, and continue them for companies which continue to keep jobs in the US. There are incentives on capital gains, and for healthcare provision. He's offering tax breaks to companies that create jobs in the US.

That's a way to use taxes to try to nudge behaviour, rather than just give everyone a tax break and hope they do the right thing with it.

It's a different world view, I think.

PS It's impossible for you to become a martyr, we cultists control the media too!

cheryl katz

I know these people. Their radical ways are purely self-serving. They have no higher power than themselves. I went to a private school with girls exactly like Michelle Obama. Came to study for free and criticized the rest of us at every turn. Their mission in the world today as successful prfessionals is to help only themselves. Obama is and will be no different. We will all suffer under his regime while he sets himslef up for the greatest power and riches in his future.

Conservative Cabbie

Steve

I completely disagree with you, and your point about the clothese is churlish in the extreme.

You are right to say that she has energised the base although that is somewhat of an understatement. Whilst McCain is lucky to pull in one or two thousand to a stump speech, Palin brings in tens of thousands, she is as big a draw as Obama, that hardly qualifies her as an electoral liability. As for independents, who's to say a) how they'll actually vote on election day and b) whether they'd have voted for McCain anyway in light of the economic disaster.

As for the clothes, you need to do more research. She didn't buy them, the campaign did for the campaigns own ends. When Obama spends 800,000 to go on holiday to Hawaii and 5 million on his Barackopolis, I'd say 150,000 compares very favourably.

Sarah Palin's Wink

Steve - Thanks for yet another lesson in the sulky, childish illogic of the left!

"Does spending tens of thousands of dollars on clothes and makeup constitute living within your means ..." Well, yes, actually, if the organisation you work for has budgeted for these clothes as being necessary for your effective presentation. In this case, it was a modest amount well spent. (Even really expensive make-up doesn't cost tens of thousands of dollars by the way. At least we know you're not a drag queen.)

On the other hand, we find that Obama has spent $700m on self-aggrandisement and ego worship and campaigns to tell infants they should persuade their parents to vote for The One, and songwriters to write hymns to him.

Thanks for the giggle.

Nelson Palmer

A couple that ignores the fact that in his past Obama associated with, had connections to, or was involved in financing a racist preacher (Reverend Wright), Domestic Terrorist who bombed Washington DC (Wm Ayers), Acorn (A group that is under indictment in a dozen states for voter fraud and was defended, instructed, and received funding from Obama), The "New Party" (A communist Party in the United States), and other Islamic and socialist organizations, somehow feel that electing a President of the United States will have no affect on their lives or those of their children or Grand children.

It is like hiring a baby sitter who "in the past" was involved in child molestation or child pornography but thought it was "ok" to hire the sitter because the sitter says that they are different now.

Conservative Cabbie

Talking of nudging behaviour, he plans to increase capital gains tax and dividend tax meaning a slow down in investment. Looking at the stock market, I'm not altogether sure that's wise.

I won't engage too much on this subject, I'm an economic illiterate and fully aware of my limitations. I'll just resort to my usual arguement - "Obama sucks a big one!". There, beat that.

Word would get out of my courage and sacrifice.

fellow traveller

Cabbie: I'd find out if any domestic terrorists had been in the back of your cab and link you to them, raise speculation about where your taxi has really been when you say you're working, and find a few ex-passengers who will portray your political views as dangerous extremism.

We've got one week to see if our smear strategy would work. If it doesn't, we'll have to let you off.

fellow traveller

Cheryl Katz: You're saying people shouldn't vote for Obama because you went to private school with someone who you think is a bit like his wife and you didn't like her?

That's one hell of an education they gave you.

Chip Laisure

Hoora!!
Thanks for this! And for keeping up the good fight... We're doing our best over here in the "States"

Conservative Cabbie

So Obama said he'd give tax cuts to people earning under $250,000.

Really?

Why then in an advert at the weekend, did the Obama campaign drop that figure to $200,000. And why did Joe Biden say that the figure is now $150,000 p.a.

Obama promises a change to a new kind of politics. With dodgy associations, intimidation of the media, voter fraud and the campaigns lies, I have only one thing to say.

Can we have the old politics back please?

Roberta E. Dzubow

Obama propaganda squads' versions of every topic are swallowed whole. Obama's top advisor, David Axelrod, ran Philadelphia Mayor John Street's slur- filled racist campaign. It swept John Street into office, sadly for the city- and Philadelphia was soon called the "pay to play city."
Sam Katz, a successful, bright businessman had been defeated. John Street, a black citizen, won with ease - Philadelphia has a large black population. Axelrod knew all the buttons to push - then and now.

Louise

I've just seen, on Fox News, the reaction of the McCain camp to Joe the Plumber's opinion that an Obama presidency will spell "the death of Israel". They distanced themselves from that prediction. So it seems they will knock Obama on the economy but not on that. ("Whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad".)

steve

Sarah Palin's Wink: You're right. The story about the money spent on clothing and makeup has only helped the McCain campaign which is why there's currently a battle underway to avoid taking responsibility for it. Even Bill Kristol, a Palin booster, has recognized that it has been damaging to the Republican cause and to Palin specifically.

Rob-NY

Melanie
Heard you on the Mike Gallagar program in the States and your investigative reporting gave conservatives in the USA a great incentive to stop the defeatism and get out and vote.
Thanks for doing more than your bit for us in the States (and the world). We need a thousand more journalists just like you on both sides of the pond. Cheers!

fellow traveller

Cabbie

No one is moving the goalposts. The tax thing breaks down like this:

If you live on your own and make less than $200K, no tax increase.

If you are a household and you make less than $250K, no tax increase.

If you make less than $150K, you get a tax cut.

It takes concentration, but not so much that McCain could not have known he was conflating three different policies when he claimed Obama was changing the figures.

If you want a more detailed breakdown, then the Tax Policy Center breaks it down like this:

18,891 = $567 tax cut
$18,982-$37,595 = $892 tax cut
$37,596-$66,354 = $1,118 tax cut
$66,355-$111,645 = $1,264 tax cut
$111,646-$160,972 = $2,135 tax cut
$160,973-$226,918 = $2,796 tax cut
$226,919-$603,402 = $121 tax increase
$603,403-$2.87 million = $93,709 tax increase
$2.87 million-plus = $542,882 tax increase

Hope that helps!

Conservative Cabbie

Great line from of Ace Of Spades.

John McCain tortured by communists.

Barack Obama tutored by communists.

Conservative Cabbie

fellow traveller

not really as Obama has been spinning the 250,000 figure all election cycle, the 150,000 has never been mentioned - in other words he's been conning the electorate.

Of course in his whole political career, admittedly not all that long, he's never once voted for a tax cut, but of course we're supposed to believe him this time.

The last person to promise a middle class tax cut - Bill Clinton. It should be noted that when he got in power it never materialised.

On another matter, are you aware that if Obama wins and serves a full term, that will be the longest he's held a job in his entire life. Does that not even give you pause?

Conservative Cabbie

fellow traveller

You left McCains figures off that tax breakdown (which I was grateful for btw).

From about $70,000 dollars upwards, McCain actually gives a bigger tax break than Obama. So a couple earning the equivalent of approx £30,000 in our money would actually be better off under McCain.

Also to be borne in mind. McCain's tax plan would add 4.5 trillion to the national debt, Obama would only add 3.3 mil. Point to Obama you would think, but of course McCain has also promised to cut or freeze spending. Obama on the other hand has a large shopping list of spending plans as of course does the Democratically dominated congress. When Obama was asked in the final debate which of his plans he would cut owing to the bailout, he didn't name a single program.

What we are going to have is an old fashioned Tax and Spend President and Democrats in congress so beholden to their own special interests and determined to increase spending on their pet projects. Obama is going to be faced with a stark choice. Veto Congresses spending spree and face a massive inside the party bust up, or give into his party, face a massive rise in National Debt or a forced raising of taxes and the boot in four years.

I should also point out of course that a President can't deliver a tax cut, only Congress can which means he won't be able to annoy the party.

al

BRavo!!!! Bravo!!!! I sent this to liberal friends, while they are still friends, in the hopes that their eyes might open in the last minutes.

Donald Williams

We are captives aboard a "ship of fools" with Obama at the helm. We are adrift in a raging sea sailing farther and farther from our sacred,secured shores never to return to a way of life that use to be!

Henauder

I spoke with two people today who agreed with me that we all had a sick feeling in the pit of our stomachs when we thought of Obama as President and what he would do to our beloved country. He envisions a Marxist state that does not threaten Iran, Russia, China, Syria, Venezuela, or Cuba that transfers its valuable resources to African dictators. I hope he does not get elected, and, if he does, that we are in such bad economic straits that the damage he does will be limited. I do not think he would ever respond to an attack on us with anything other than protests at the UN and a battery of lawyers.

Henauder

We have no evidence that Obama is a native-born American, save a "hospital certificate of live birth," and no legal, State of Hawaii issued "birth certificate." I have worked in several hospitals, and "certificates of live birth" forms are readily available to anyone who works around the new born nursery. We have little of no evidence of how Obama financed his education. In the Illinois Senate he voted "Present" more times than "yea" or "nay." Was this to establish no trail of what he really believes? He has been very coy about many issues, and says one thing one time and another thing another time, e.g., his saying that he would remove the troops from Iraq within a few months when his campaign started, but now saying the troops should be allowed to complete their work. I believe the former position. From writing in his book that "if things turned ugly, I would stand with the Muslims," to recently giving his full support to Israel. I don't see how he could have it both ways, especially when he has close friends who are Palestinian operatives. He claims that no one making under $250K per year will have their taxes increase, but he supports letting the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010, which, clearly would result in an increase in taxes for the middle class. He support redistribution of wealth, and now the Democrats in Congress a starting to consider a way to do away with personal retirement plans and replace them with a government plan. The mortgage business has been nationalized and most banks were forced to accept billions of dollars many neither wanted or needed in exchange for preferred, non-voting stock and the right buy voting shares in the future if the government chose to do so, resulting in nationalization of our banks. What's next? Ford and GM? The airlines? Obama is from the corrupt Chicago political machine. He wants to tax productive people and businesses and give the money to drug addicts and alcoholics who produce nothing. Oh, he would say its for the working poor, but I don't believe it. The record of liberals running social assistance programs is one of putting as many people on the dole as possible, even if not legally qualified, and never taking them off. I know first hand that that's the way they operate. ACORN most likely has signed up many individuals to vote more than once with the intention of getting as many illegal votes for Obama as possible. I don't worry about Mickey Mouse being registered, unless Mickey Mouse shows up to vote and the poll officials let her. I worry about one person being registered at multiple addresses who goes to several polling places and votes on election day and/or votes absentee multiple times. Not likely anyone who does that would be voting for McCain. Obama is very likely to withdraw the US Navy from the Western Pacific and the Indian Ocean a give them over to the Chinese. Bye-bye Taiwan and South Korea. He would withdraw US forces from Europe, and Putin, with Obama's aquiescence would move on the former Soviet states and Eastern Europe. And there is almost no chance that Obama would have a better economic climate in the US in four years than we have now.

fellow traveller

Cabbie

America's at a historical low tax point - most of Obama's tax "rises" come about as a result of letting Bush tax breaks expire. Personal tax rates in the US are much less than 20 years ago.

Also the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget calculates Obama plans $990 billion in new spending, but also spending cuts of $989 billion.

Calling this "tax and spend" is a bit rich, but I take your point - there's a difference in world view here, just not the yawning chasm portrayed by all sides plus what's becoming a slightly hysterical media.

Chadders

Flatulent waffle. Obama's no more left wing than the reforming wing of the conservative party. Suck it up and stop whining.

kiwi

Chadders wrote: "Flatulent waffle"
Just passing through this forum are we Chadders?

Conservative Cabbie

fellow traveller

You make good points which I'm not really in a position to take issue with.

However, perhaps it's just my conservative bias, but raising taxes on wealth producers during an economic recession seems less than advisable. I also think he will stuggle to pass a budget without Congress hanging spending baubles on what will be a Christmas Tree budget. This is the Dems time with a super majority, they will want to get as much out of it as possible. Let's just say that Obama is genuine and has become a fiscal conservative (I'm not convinced), the question is will he have the strength to veto a big spending budget. I'm not so sure.

One also has to take into account his track record. I know this figure can be disputed but he has voted to raise taxes on 94 occasions and has never voted for a tax cut. Are we supposed to believe that he has now seen the light, or is this just a man seeking election who will use the worsening of the economic situation to renege on his electoral promises.

As you say, we have different idealogical positions, I'm hoping we won't get the chance to find out who's right about Obama.

Chadders

Does it matter?
If it walks like a duck.
I've got a number of problems with Phillips analysis. Firstly I am convinced that she is aware that Obama is no more a left wing radical than David Cameron, Ken Clarke or any other member on the reforming wing of the British conservative party. To portray him as anything else is either an attempt to shore up her blog profile or to pander to the demographic who think he's a Marxist. And lets be clear he's not raising the proletariat to seize control of the means of production, he's standing for election as president. It kinda makes me think he's commited to the whole democracy thing.
You might buy into this nonsense... I choose not to.
Secondly I'm amazed at her assertion of a left wing bias in the media. Just do the math, who owns what. Put it another way how many Marxist's own newspaper in the USA or the UK. Or how many Anarcho syndicalists own television stations. I'm not trying to be a smart arse ( please don't go with the obvious ) I'm just trying to point out that her analysis is based on tripe and onions. Check out the media ownership data I'm pretty sure you'll find its predominantly rich old white guys with a hankering for the status quo.
You may think that the far left has a foothold or even a stranglehold on our cultures. All that says to me is that your perspective is off.
Thirdly, whenever I've seen or read her she seems to have no thought that she may be wrong. She's absolutely correct .... about everything and that we are all somehow a little bit stupid for not recognising that.

Ronnie

Donald Williams

'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I've watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate.

All these...moments will be lost
in time, like tears in rain.'

Hayward Maberley

Kiwi,
Nice of you to drop in from the other side of the Tasman.
Have you considered my post on Republican Fiscal Responsibility?

Hayward Maberley

Chadders
You sum it up so well.
What Ms Phillips and, it appears, most of her claque rail against in the dread MSM is in reality a straw man.
MSM as they are wont to call them are all owned by as you so aptly describe them "rich old white guys with a hankering for the status quo" plus not to forget a hankering for ever increasing profits.
They are neither Foucauldists nor Gramscians nor leftists nor Marxists, just capitalists.

Hayward Maberley

Mr Williams,
You are currently on the "ship of fools" with Dubya and the GOP "adrift in a raging sea sailing farther and farther from our sacred,secured shores never to return to a way of life that use to be"
It is they that have wrecked the good ship USA on the financial shoals of big deficits, huge national debt and overseas military adventures. A change of pilot and crew is needed to bring you back safe into harbour.
Once you started on all those maritime metaphors, as some one who has sailed a fair bit, it was hard not to continue.

Frank P

Chadders

"flatulent waffle"?

If you're hearing waffle in the baffle when you flatulate, I suggest you see your proctologist. The old Chalfonts may need a bit of a tidy up.

Poosh

The world has no need for knights Miss. Phillips. You've always had faith in people but I think one of these days you will finally realise the world isn't worth saving. Few people care for truth anymore. Myself and others have given up and are going to go find a nice comfy hole and live out the rest of our days. I hope you can join us.

Sweet Britain, leased out!

Heather

This is an excellent article! I could not agree more with everything that was said! I am going to forward this article to everyone I know!

Michele

In response to the post below -

The media tears apart a US citizen (Joe) who just happened to ask a question of a potential US president, a question that pulled the curtain back on the wizard; yet the media rolls their eyes at Obama's long list of shady and questionable mentors, cohorts and associates, his lack of experience or anything else they should be curious about.

The media ignores Joe Biden's inability to count letters in words (Biden noted in a speech that "j-o-b-s" is a THREE letter word), just as they ignored his goofy statement about Roosevelt addressing the public via TV at the start of the Great Depression. Yes, the media ignores all this and turns their claws toward Sarah Palin and her wardrobe.

I could go on, as the examples are many.

Yet you believe the "press is just doing its job" ?

Wow! We're on two different planets.

*******************************

Fellow traveller Wrote:
October 27th, 2008 8:58am

One thing that has popped up before which I don't understand is Joe the Plumber:

"the press took apart the private life of an average person who had the temerity to ask a tough question of a presidential candidate... So much for speaking truth to power."

The press didn't do it because Obama told them to do it, they did it because Joe raised interesting points which McCain chose to bring up in the presidential debate. The media went out to find his story - all media, both pro-McCain and pro-Obama - so they could explain it to their readers. Turns out he wasn't quite what he claimed.

But it's essential for the press to find that out too, otherwise they would report as true every story told by anyone, anywhere.

It was not good news for Joe. But I don't see how the press *doing their job* can be blamed on some sort of pro-Obama bias.

John

Senator Obama is the "New Messiah." The world harkens to his every word and he has the charisma to turn the masses to his way of thinking. The West is doomed, Islamic victory. The "New Messiah" has finally arrived.

fellow traveller

Michele

The press so tore apart Joe the plumber that he's now stumping for the Republicans? He must have been devastated by the experience.

No one would have paid him any notice if the Republicans hadn't decided to make the third debate all about Joe. And its a bit ironic that Now we know more about Joe, we also know that he would get a better tax break under Obama than under McCain. Which is, I think, editorially relevant.

I note that fair-and-balanced Fox dug as hard as anyone else. So is that liberal bias too?

Samuel Allgreen

Reads like a true conservative pundit from FoxNews... Although this is much better in terms of content and execution. But still a far cry from what is quintessentially journalism, objectiveness and research.

Although you quote from the fantastic Mark Levin, it a shame you sighted such low-brow pundits as Mark Steyn, although its not the first or the last time such disgraces are quoted or paraphrased in Melanie Phillips' articles.

Michael Luo and Griff Palmer did an excellent piece "Fictitious Donors Found in Obama Finance Records" for the NY Times.

There is a reason people are not sticking to Ayers, or Trinity Church and the likes. His opponent also has questionable acquaintances and connections-such as Oliver North and Gordon Liddy.

If Ms. Phillips cannot perceive the size of the importance behind certain stories or the relevance to issues, she will still remain a mediocre spectator with no more insight than the rest of us.

fellow traveller

Quick media search shows, in the US print media for the last 30 days:

Articles mentioning "Joe the Plumber": 3370
Articles mentioning both Ayers and Obama: 4407
Articles mentioning ACORN: 3747

"That they have become the propaganda arm of the far left, particularly during this election, is now clear for all to see."

On this evidence, I disagree.

Hayward Maberley

Fellow Traveller,
Thank you for the work on numbers concerning the ever hot topics on this blog site.

It shows up the absurdly innaccurate claims made concerning MSM for what they are. Absurd.

fellow traveller

Just a couple more, and then I'll stop.

Articles containing Obama and socialism, socialist or Marxist - 3134
(about equal with Joe)

Biden and gaffe - 575
Palin and gaffe - 620
(roughly equal)

Of course, those articles reach many different conclusions. But what's obvious from this is that, whatever those conclusions are, all these issues are being discussed in the media. Biden's gaffes are not being ignored, and articles discussing whether Obama is a socialist are being printed.

Mug

Melanie, you are a voice of reason in a world gone mad. "In the land of the blind the man with one eye is king" no longer is true. Today, in the world gone insane the deceiver is messiah. This phenomenon cannot be explained but only observed in astonishment by those who are sane. Friends and family can no longer be dealt with rationally, elected government cannot be trusted, scholars are dishonest, teachers teach lies, preachers preach hate, the media are shills and destroyers of truth, old enemies are becoming allies and the world is changing. What is happening is of Biblical proportion and the hand of God can be seen shaping events while Satan, the father of lies, leads the parade.

fellow traveller

Mug

"Friends and family can no longer be dealt with rationally"

How do you advocate we should deal with them? I'd suggest that telling them that Satan, the father of lies, is outside leading a parade wont work. But it is Halloween.

Mug

Fellow traveler, I have family members and friends affected by the madness who cannot respond to rational discourse and so must be endured with patience and longsuffering. Of course having been overcome with Obama-mania they have lost the ability to discern right and wrong, good and evil, God and Satan and would only be confused by the metaphor of Satan leading their victory parade - even on halloween.

I find your blogs well written but you are so defensive. The vicious attacks that you agree with are not justified by the vicious attacks you don't agree with.

Your numbers that you present in earlier comments that indicate lack of media bias cannot be found in media watchdog reports nor by searching the web. A google search on "media bias" turns up a couple of million hits. The first 20 articles that quote studies are fairly consistent that across the country newpaper articles about Obama are 75% positive and 25% negative, while they are about 50 / 50 for McCain.

Hayward Maberley

Mug,
Obviously you methodology differs from that of Fellow Traveller.
Google uses PageRank. If you only use Google what appears is not necessarily the most accurate information, but basically the pages that have received the most hits and links.
An interesting take on your family and friends, simply on the basis of not holding the same ideas as you do concerning the upcoming election. And you generalise even further by claiming that anyone not believing and thinking as you do is not sane. That statement verges on the delusional.
In your estimation Fellow Traveller is defensive but that is is better than being as offensive as some who post here.

Mug

Hayward Maberly
You are very smart Hayward, different methodologies give different results. I revealed my methodology, but Fellow Traveller just gives numbers from a "quick media search" that cannot be verified.

Here's another methodology that can be verified, do a "quick Google search" on "Media Watchdog." You will get over a half a million results. Wikipedia comes up in the first 10 or so and gives a good definition. Avoid the blogs and editorials and look at actual studies with statistical results. Read their interpretation of the statistics. Discard the ones that you agree totally with and the ones you disagree totally with, they are partisan. If you are fair minded, you will be left with a number of unbiased studies that define what they mean by positive and negative, that count total articles for Obama and total for McCain and rate them positive or negative.

The results are inescapable, the media is in the tank for Obama. There are more articles about Obama, most of them favorable, and fewer articles about McCain, most of them unfavorable. By the way, MSNBC does not deny it.

As for my family and friends, I agree with some and disagree with some and we have wonderful discussions and debates. It's the sheeple who spoil the discourse with their irrational diatribes of hatred for Sara Palin and their Obama worship with mesmerized unquestioning lock-step jack-booted approval of undefined "change" and I could go on. Sheeple by the way is a metaphor for people who are easily herded like sheep.

Hayward Maberley

Mug,
I will time permitting carry out the Google exercise as you did.
I am aware of the term sheeple it has been use quite extensively by some on this blog.
What you failed to address is the my query concerning your doubting of some people's sanity "This phenomenon cannot be explained but only observed in astonishment by those who are sane."
An allusion to anyone not thinking like you do not being sane. As I said that does seem somewhat delusional. At the end of that post you then say "What is happening is of Biblical proportion and the hand of God can be seen shaping events while Satan, the father of lies, leads the parade."
There you start to sound like some prophet out of the OT, or possibly one of those strange tv evangelists. And that is supposed to be a sane approach?

Mug

Hayward

I think I would like you if I met you, you are curious and willing to dialogue. Read my earlier message again, I said there are those with whom I disagree yet engage in wonderful discussions and debates. I don't doubt the sanity of anyone just because I disagree with them.

I doubt the sanity of fanatics on either side who are intolerant of opposing views while unable to present a reasoned defense of their own views, who follow blindly without question. In past presidential electons the insanity has been pretty well balanced on both sides, but this time Obama-mania dominates to an "astonishing" degree. Tell any Obama-maniac that you question their messiah's qualifications and you will be assaulted with a long diatribe of why they hate Sara Palin and George Bush, but they don't present qualifications that include accomplishments of a presidential stature; they don't present qualifications to be commander in chief.

Biblical porportion is just that. Watch the old epic movies, "The Ten Commandments," "The Robe," "Ben Hur," "David and Bathsheba," and so on, the list is long. If you read the Bible, read Isaiah, Jeremiah, Amos, Daniel, and the other prophets in the Old Testament, or Revelation in the New Testament. It is a metaphorical comment Hayward, not an approach.

fellow traveller

Sorry, I'm a bit late to answer Mug. After this blog slipped off the front page i didn't spot it.

My methodology is to search the Factiva database, which is a professional research tool combining almost every media source, at least in the English-speaking world. You can do some pretty sophisticated searches on it, but mine only took a few minutes.

I'm not making any claim about the conclusions of the articles. The point I addressed was specifically that whole areas of debate were being ignored - for example, Biden's gaffes.

Also, one poster pointed out that J the P had been subjected to more media attention in 48 hours that BO had in the whole campaign. My search shows that this is obviously rubbish.

But I don't make claims for it beyond that.

An American

Your entitled to your opinion, however, all of this can be debunked and some of it is partial information (e.g. McCain authorized close to a half million to Khalidi's group). Do your homework! I have never seen such irrational hysteria and think some of you should do some self reflection. If you look at the diverse crowd that celebrated President-elect Obama's win and then looked at the all-white crowd at McCain's election night reception, then it becomes clear that the "concern" is really for reasons other than platform and policy. As a white American descended from a US founding father, I will be proud to see the Obamas in the White House.
Relax. The world as you know it has not ended and the sky is not falling. Anyone who can motivate and unite the number of Americans who turned out on election day, will also have that same number watching and participating in the checks and balances. We received the deepest of body blows on Sept. 11, resulting in a country-wide paralysis. Now, we're back.

Mug

An American

What is so hard to understand about conservative disapproval of Obama's liberalism? What is so hard to understand about skepticism of his centrist promises that differ from the far left evidence in his short resume? What is so hard to understand about wanting more details about past shady associations and whether they influence his world view in unacceptable ways? And especially why sir or madam do you and so many of Obama's adorers consider disapproval of him has to be racial? I am a conservative and I have diverse friends who are liberal and conservative many of whom disapprove of Barack. You say "do your homework." Melanie Philips did her homework and you trash it, but you don't present any homework of your own, you just imply that there is homework for us that will lead us to fall on our face at the feet of Obama with you. You say questioning Obama's credentials is irrational hysteria, but for those of us like Melanie who have done our homework, it is rational suspicion that he is not who he claims to be and that he doesn't intend to keep his promises. You are the one who has not done honest homework and blindly accepts the cool aid you are being fed. Hitler was elected by adoring sheeple who didn't do their homework and "their world as they knew it ended." I don't think Obama is a Hitler, but we don't know enough about him to determine if he is or not.

Robert

A lot of those fifth-column journalists need to be put on trial for treason and made examples of upon conviction! If their propaganda favoring the enemy and morally supporting the enemy is not the aiding of making war against their own country, then what is?

Veritatis

All that Melanie has succeeded to do is to whip up hatred for Obama. Unfortunately, the American people have spoken, and the verdict is clear. Where was Melanie when the press was whipping up anti-American annd anti-British sentiments? I believe her voice and pen were sleeping then. What has happened in Afghanistan, and in Irag as compared to North Korea? What Melanie, and her ilk forget is that, no nation will submit itself to be the scum of British and American imperialism on a scale reminiscent of African slavery. If that were possible, there will be peace in Afghanistan and Irag by now. Muscle flexing is not the solution, diplomacy born out of respect is. How many people die through road accidents, domestic violence, racial hatred, and just sheer madness of gun-totting Americans and British in a year as compared to terrorist activities? It it time for both American and British racists, and conservatives that, the nations of the world need them as partners rather than lords. Very soon, Obama will prove people like Melanie wrong as under his leadership, respect for Americans and their contribution to ensuring a peaceful world order will be restored. In ant case, does Ms Rice's engagement with Ghadaffi's son means she is dining with the devil?

Philippa Burton

How amusing, to hear a Zionist comment on the "Sacrifice Of Truth To Power" in the other camp. Considering Ms Phillips' outrage at some of the president-elect's contacts, she might care to comment on the contacts of his new chief-of-staff, Rahm Israel Emanuel, and in particular on his father having acted as a gun-runner for the terrorist Zionist organization, the Irgun, responsible for multiple attacks on British civilians and troops under the Palestine mandate.

J. Mike

Pothead:
So much for your use of drugs and the obvious lack in ability to analyse data. No further questions, your Honor