Freedom now stands alone

Twinky Winky Pony Palin

It's called democracy Melanie. Suck it up.

Or are you not entirely comfortable with that idea?

Twinky Winky Pony Palin

Oh, and where is 'freedom standing alone' exactly?

kiwi

Talking the talk is one thing, walking the talk is entirely different. I, for one, will be interested to see Obama put his (lots of) money where his mouth is.

THX1138

Leave the wingnuts to circle their wagons and howl at the moon. I'm off out to enjoy myself.

jose garcia

with the way he has manipulated the system to silence any critics
BEFORE the election, imagine what he can do now that he has the power

logdon

Twinky Winky Pony Palin
November 5th, 2008 11:06am
It's called democracy Melanie. Suck it up.

Or are you not entirely comfortable with that idea?

Stupid name. Even stupider comment. Suck it up? Maybe Twinky Winky (I could think of something more appropriate with one letter change) is revealing more than he/she thought. Or is he/she a Hoover sales person? And is this an object lesson in puerile cliche'd patronisation? 'Comfortable with that idea'? Grow up Twinky.

Daniel

Melanie - I have always admired greatly your strong defence of Israel and stand against Islamic extremism, but I'm afraid your judgement has deserted you on this occasion, in a way that detracts from your overall message. The passage of time will prove this to be the case. Obama will support Israel and take the fight to Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, which is where the primary focus should always have been.

However passionate your belief in the war against terror and Islamic extremism, I just don't see how you can ignore or dismiss the disastrous legacy of the past 8 years. You simply cannot expect the US electorate to continue endorsing foreign and economic policies that have proven so miserably ineffective in achieving their stated objectives. The America of George Bush was not the America that came to Europe's aid in two world wars and the Cold War. The neo-cons were extreme, ideologically blinkered, dogmatic and ultimately - like all ideological zealots - the authors of their own demise.

A final point: my best friend at college was once a member of the militant tendency - does this make me a communist? (In fact, I am a member of the Conservative Party.) You make far too much of Obama's past associations and need to lighten up a bit. It's not going to be the disaster you think - promise!

Howard

Your man and your ideals were beaten fair and square. Obama deserves credit for his victory and the way he achieved this. Comment should wait until he actually takes office.

Be like America and embrace change. Clearly you do not understand the country or it's culture. The States is fed up with the old order and wants to be renewed. That is precisely what will happen.

Be positive for once!

sadjoe

Our media Obamanation is born. No excuses now, they own the country. Obama must be more than "present" in the White House - I'm agnostic, but today pray for him and my country.

Ronnie

So logdon, what you are actually saying is...what are you actually saying?

David

Absolute piffle.

hippiepooter

Great words Melanie. If President Elect Obama is the hard left, black power anti-semite that I fear he is, no doubt after he's freed the Al Qa'eda terrorists from Guantanamo, he'll put his opponents there instead.

Patrick

Daniel, you sound competent but in the end you've lifted the same old vapid, nebulous cliches the pro-hope-and-change camp. No, your militant friend does not make you a communist, this is a pathetic argument. But every shady, suspicious and downright dangerous association from Obama's past are totally relevant to his political and ideological present and future. They were'nt just old friends. They were allies. They served on boards together, handed out funds together, received funds together, "community organised" together, learned from, been mentored by, and much more.

Melanie has not "made too much of them". Like so many pragmatic conservatives, she hasn't made enough.

"It's not going to be the disaster you think - promise!"

Don't make promises you can't keep.

Huw Thornton

I don't agree with you at all about John McCain, Melanie. He fought until the end, and I think that no other Republican could do anything like as well as he did. His concession speech was a model of decency, typical of him. Due to his efforts, what could have been a wipeout is a simple defeat - the Republicans live to fight another day.

It's too early for post mortems. I'd only say that if the Republicans were to adopt the mean-minded childish paranoia which certain participants have shown in the debate, they would turn defeat into permanent eclipse.

Allan@Aberdeen

One should also know this about Obama and his records:

1. Occidental College records — Not released

2. Columbia College records — Not released

3. Columbia Thesis paper — ‘not available’

4. Harvard College records — Not released

5. Selective Service Registration — Not released

6. Medical records — Not released

7. Illinois State Senate schedule — ‘not available’

8. Law practice client list — Not released

9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate — Not released

10. Embossed, signed, paper Certification of Live Birth — Not released

11. Harvard Law Review articles published — None

12. University of Chicago scholarly articles — None

13. Record of baptism— Not released or ‘not available’

14. Illinois State Senate records—’not available’

Ronnie

Hippiepooter, do you ever think that these people should be tried in a court of law on the basis the evidence that has been gathered against them? Or are they to be detained without charge, indefinitely, as would be the case in a bog-standard dictatorship?

Mr. Blobby

If you dare criticize or publish a bad news article about Obama, they will call it a "smear", even if its true; it wont appear in the world media.

Watching the news reporters ask Americans live why they are voting for Obama and they have no idea, they fail to respond and chant: "CHANGE!".

The media won this election, journalism died.

Jan

Melanie -- You are sooo right and now we in America will pay dearly for what has just taken place. Thank you for your honesty and straightforwardness -- something we did not see in our local media at all. We are no longer the USA as we are not "united". America has made a huge mistake and will absolutely regret this.

Tony Blair's cousin (twice removed)

Obama Hussien Barak has beguiled America with fine words in the fashion of a snake-charmer. He imitates the Tony Blair effect that we eventually came to abhor.

We should not judge the man by what he says, but what he does.

His history demonstrates important abiguities about his origins and background. His early association with Islam and his dubious connections with Keynan politics and the emergence of a thugish Islamic influence resulting in riots and death in Kenya. Then there is the former lengthy connection with a black racist church and his association with former terrorists who currently regret their previous ineffectiveness. And what about his connections with organised crime?

Such a background would prohibit his membership of the FBI or CIA which he will soon control.

No wonder he was silent on many questionable aspects of his life. It will be interesting to see what emerges in the future that will be another smear on his character.

America's new dawn is going to prove a nightmare in which the race issue will exacerbate its progress hitherto.

Rob van de Broek

@Daniel
How are Obama's policies going to be more effective in curbing rising islamism and the danger of 9/11 type attacks? Bush was perhaps too ambitious in the war on terror, but Obama doesn't seem to have a vision at all, other than talk talk talk, and we know how well that worked for the middle east "peace process".
Chavez, the PLO, Putin and friends are rejoicing today, they disagree with you and think the US had grown weak.

Ronnie

Patrick, you forgot to say that they are unrepentant.

Pete in Albuquerque NM USA

Melanie,

Well said. What scares me the most is that liberals who are bent on destroying America as we have known it actually fervently believe they are right. They have drunk the kool aid.
To live in a society where the norms of the "last great generation" are now held in mockery is a very odd thing indeed.

Americans have become so obsessed with their own individual rights and feeding their own insatiable appetite for self realization that the have by and large turned their back on all that is objectively right and good and instead believe the lie that they are the beginning and the end.

I believe Barack Hussein Obama is sincere in his world view. I am also sure he is sincerely wrong. I am sure it will mean the of much that is good in our society.
As an American, and as a Christian, I will pray for him, hope for my country and do my best to shine a light as the world becomes darker.

David

Medical records, eh?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/03/palin-campaign-stonewalls-on-medical-records/

LAKEWOOD, Ohio (CNN) – With less than 24 hours to go before the presidential election, Sarah Palin still has not released her medical records and there is no indication the campaign is planning to do so.

John McCain, Barack Obama and Joseph Biden have all provided details about their medical history.

Daniel

Patrick - if Obama is as bad as you and Melanie think he is, why did Colin Powell endorse him? Or is even he now to be labelled and smeared as a surrender monkey? Re: the war on terror, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and I have an open mind on whether Obama can make a better fist of it than George Bush and his right wing clique. He could hardly do worse! Have you any idea how many Iraqis died because Bush didn't commit enough troops to begin with?

John

Melanie, I live in a Kool Aid Nation.

Tas Walker

They must now look elsewhere. Where to?

Frank P

Remember Dunkirk, Melanie! Battle lost, but the beginning of the fight back began in the desert before the war was eventually won. Back to the sand and searing heat! As for the poor bloody infantry already there and holding the fort, what must they be thinking about the decadence that they may (or may not) come home to? We must resume our support for what they are attempting to achieve; this Hollywood farce has been a distraction; it has also now become a reality that the entranced ones will have to live with as the pop corn and tear-stained tissues get swept up after the jamboree and they realise the promises are about as ephemeral as the scripts that he read out; the scripts of lies that will follow the tissues into the garbage cans. Already the apologists in the Media are at work - "He will have to pick up the mess left by Bush ... Bush ...Bush ... Bush ... Bush .... Bush ... Bush ... Bush ... Bush 'n’ Cheyne-ne-ne-ne-ne .....! (echo fades as all echoes and excuses must).”

Whether a Barack in the hand, will be worth much in the burning of the Bush, remains to be seen. My forecast is that this line of propaganda will singe The One’s wings very quickly. The fate of Icarus will ensue. The punters will soon get fed up with excuses and start to make their inevitable demands.

Freddy and Fanny f****d it for ya, folks! Not Georgie-Porgie. You couldn’t afford that crap. There's nothing left in the pot. Boil the scripts and eat those, they may sustain you for a while as Statism begins to bite and Ingsoc begins to boom over the Tannoy. Good Luck to my many America friends, but remember (as some of you pointed out when you told us to butt out) we couldn't vote in this fiasco so it's down to you.

Rupert

Bravo Melanie, thank you from Kansas!

Dixon

The thing that baffles me most these days is quite where Christopher Hitchens now stands on anything?

Neuroskeptic

"Millions of Americans remain lion-hearted, decent, rational and sturdy."

They won.

Birchsmirch

John Birch pontificates:

Hope trumped fear and it must be galling to have no one listening to your demonizing.

David

Israeli daily newspaper Haaretz called the U.S. election an "example of democracy at its best," citing Americans' "plethora of opportunities" to learn about the candidates' policies and stance on key issues. It also paid tribute to Obama's unifying influence, saying, "Whites and blacks, Jews and Muslims, all decided to give their votes to a candidate who is young, black and lacking in governmental experience," and expressed its hope that the President-elect would "rehabilitate the status of a superpower that remains unrivaled in its influence over the peace and welfare of all humanity."

Robert van de Broek

"Already the apologists in the Media are at work - "He will have to pick up the mess left by Bush ... Bush ...Bush ... Bush ... Bush .... Bush ... Bush ... Bush ... Bush 'n’ Cheyne-ne-ne-ne-ne .....!"

hehe exactly how every dutch newspaper editorial reads this morning. the media is shedding all pretense of neutrality today, raving about the messiah coming just in time to save the world, but one step a time ofcourse because Dubya "brought america to the edge of the abyss" (thats a quote from a news-article, not an opinion-piece)

Ronnie

Do you actually write this mess Frank P, or do you simply cut and paste very randomly from the internet?

You are trying too hard. Let it flow.

Ronnie

Mr Blobby, give it six months and you will have plenty of negative articles on President Obama to celebrate. The fashion will pass as it always does.

An American

All of the Commies are slithering out of their holes and proclaiming victory. Obama will be timid at first then with time will go into his Socialist mode. I compared Obama to Hitler several weeks ago and got shot down for it....give him time...he fits the mold. The only difference is instead of destroying and conquering Europe, Obama is intent on destroying the US and everything it stands for...He hates this country and its people with a passion. His call for the Fairness Doctrine, a strong National Army and past anti-gun votes are just a few signs that point to subjugation of the masses. But on the positive note, Obama under-estimates most of the American people. We're individualists, unlike the Germans, and its hard to subjugate individualists. He's got a real fight on his hands. Pray for us.

Gone to Texas

Melanie, my husband and I think your take is right on target; the many negative comments you are getting here make the point. We are grieved our nation is rejecting and villifying the principles it was founded upon -- sold its soul for a mess of pottage.

Mary from Illinois, USA

What pushed it over for Obama was the youth vote (18-29 years old) who (interestingly) got their info from the internet as opposed to the traditional news sources (as if that would have made a difference) I hope the Americans who voted for Obama are content. You know that saying: "be careful what you wish for"? This is a wish I did not want granted. No time to lick our wounds however as we conservatives have much work to do. God bless America!

An American

Melanie, Your column is right on. McCain never had a chance...those of us in the southwest didn't even get to cast a vote in our primary for our choice for President...McCain was proclaimed our candidate. So conservatives marched to the polls, held our noses and voted against Obama...not for McCain. McCain ran a terrible campaign...Palin was the only bright light true conservative in this race. Obama was a sitting duck...but McCain didn't have the guts or intelligence to take the fight to him. Conservatives never liked McCain...it would have been better to have lost with Romney and kept our conservative values and souls.

Jorge Banner

You couldn't be more right. The nuts have taken over the asylum. God help us. This is a dark day for the human race.

Emmet

No matter what catastrophes Obama presides over, Bush will be blamed. We really are in an Orwellian world. The lefty nutters have taken over the madhouse.

Flashy

Millions of Americans remain lion-hearted, decent, rational and sturdy, and they voted for Obama.

Joe Strummer

So The Messiah is elected. I can only say God help America.

Shocked and Appalled

"at the suspension of reason and its replacement by thuggery"

Have you even been paying attention over the last 20 years?! Does "reason" mean "going against all available evidence"?! Does forcing through laws and WARS despite incredible resistance and protest not count as "thuggery"?

"And it was a Democrat-controlled Congress that helped provoke the sub-prime lending crisis that triggered the current financial meltdown."

Crises like this don't just happen. They take decades of bad decision and build-up. Wanna look back over the last 2 decades and see who's been in control to make this one happen?

What planet exactly are YOU living on, Melanie?

Rob van de Broek

the alcoholic bums taken to the polls by Acorn
the black masses who went voting for "da brother"
the new KiDz which got their KeWl education from bushorchimp.com
the feminists who were "totally insulted" by Sarah Palin

to some they are lion-hearted, decent, rational and sturdy.

Si, N

Ha ha ha aha ha haha hahaha haha hah hahaha hahhhha hahahaha haaha hahah ahaha haha hah ha aha ha ah aha ha ha ha hah hah hah ha aha ha he ho hoh

tee hee heeeh hahahahaha haha ha hah hahaha hahaha hahaha hahhaha hahahaha haaha haha haha haha haha hahaha ahahahhhaha haha

Tee hee!

nicodemus31

@Daniel 1.02pm)

"Patrick - if Obama is as bad as you and Melanie think he is, why did Colin Powell endorse him?"

Surely a rhetorical question. How can any serious assessor of this election claim that Obama's victory has sounded the death knell to the racist underbelly of the American political & cultural experience when we are reliably informed that 95 percent of the national non-white vote went to Obama?

The sight of the BBC & Sky news people fighting back the tears of joy as they announced the result made me want to vomit.

Pip

A sad day.

This is just the beginning of the end. What a darn shambles. So many idiots, so little time.

An marxist loving idiot just posted, elsewhere:
By far the most important event since 9/11

I prefer: By far the most dangerous event since 9/11

Well said Melanie.

derek

Democracy (which I assume everyone here believes in) chose Obama. Deal with it. Hope for the best. It required all my strength to remain sane during Bush's last 8 years. I did it. You can too.

A question to all you doubters - what can make you have faith in Obama?

EC

Joe Strummner: "So The Messiah is elected. I can only say God help America."

Wot! You mean that HE that walketh amongst us is only the messenger??? This is such a disappointment because I had hoped that HE was going to be the next regeneration of Dr Who after David Tennant. Also, it is a well known fact that Time Lords don't "do" birth certificates either - for fear of creating a paradox in the space-time continuum. Spooky!

Nick Kaplan

Hope is the first step on the road to disapointment...

How can Obama possibly live up to the expectations put on him? If I had thought he deserved to be President in the first place I would feel sorry for him. Now is time to sit and wait and watch the inevitable happen, how long will it be before people are fed up of the fact that this mans real abilities will never match his rhetoric?

Verity

Dixon writes: "The thing that baffles me most these days is quite where Christopher Hitchens now stands on anything?"

Never mind, Dixon; at least we know where Andrew Sullivan stands. Pro gay marriage. Very pro gay marriage. Extremely pro gay marriage.

AF Austin, Texas

I wonder why the Obama lovers even bother to comment on your site. Strange.

We are now entering into the slow slimy slide into socialism. I am truly horrified that we may become England. I read Dick Morris to get hope.

You are right on target, ignore the nuts who spend time to post here and say nothing.

Robbit

Brilliant summary of the situation, Melanie. Yet again.
Thank you.

Joe Strummer

On reflection, I don't really blame Americans for taking the easy way out and voting for Obama. They knew they'd face accusations for years to come of how their country is institutionally racist to the core if they'd done otherwise in electing McCain. So let the mad parade and worship of the Great Leader Kim Yong-il, sorry, Barack Obama begin....let's just hope he doesn't end the world during his tenure.

David

"Pro gay marriage. Very pro gay marriage. Extremely pro gay marriage."

That's nice. What's wrong with people who love each other wanting to get hitched?

George

Eben Marks (November 5th, 2008 2:29pm) queries "the suspension of reason and its replacement by thuggery".

The suspension of reason comes has been abundant in the mainstream media's point blank refusal to ask questions of this candidate's past, his judgement and his character.

Instead of concerning itself with Bill 'We didn't do enough' Ayers and Jeremiah 'God damn America' Wright, they targeted Sarah Palin's wardrobe - as if a few autumnal classic separates are going to undermine the American Constitution.

Remember the mainstream media devoting whole front pages to hanging chads?

Compare that with the litany of thuggery carried out by Obama supporters. We even have some first-hand accounts on this blog by some posters.

This has been going on in the run-up to the election and even on election day itself yet it has hardly concerneed the press.

Melanie is right, freedom stands alone. It's no longer under a flag - our flag.

From a lifetime of hanging on our porch, Old Glory was brought in today and will now be furled out indoors. America - the real America - remains in our hearts. Our flag doesn't belong out in the 'America' of Barack Obama - I won't have that man sully the values of my country.

Let America die if that's what the useful idiots think will help.

The rest of us must retain her values for when the same snivelling creeps come back wanting to be rescued.

Michelle O de Vulgarian

To keep the people dumb and dumber, so eventually a "rock star" is in the white house. Yes, it is democracy. Democracy can be so easily manipulated especially if the majority cannot think for themselves. Hugo Chávez, anyone? The thug of Venezuela will be so pleased he is having a big cousin now. A president elected via infomercials and Hollywood marketing. Fantastic! Infomercials are used to push useless junk products to gullible people. I can certainly see the parallel. God BLESS AMERICA! People in Taxas, I salute you!

BTW, did you see the old relic of hammer and sickle flag O supporters waving in their "irrational exuberance"?

Laura Richburg

Hold off on the post-mortem of American exceptionalism just yet, Melanie. Obama does not have a monarchical hold on congress and he has not yet amended the constitution to establish his permanent dictatorship. It is not for nothing that we have and embrace our 2nd amendment. We were formed in the fire of revolution, and enough of us still remember that.

Chingford Man

Another characteristically brave article by Melanie, especially on a day like this. To those who criticise her for not joining in the hype, some of us remember 1997 and a sleek, TV-friendly lawyer full of soundbites but with a strange vacuum at his core. That's why we absent ourselves from the party. We realise what Britain looks like today.

America, you have been warned.

An American

Derek,
You aks what can make me have faith and believe in Obama?
How about a lobotomy?

Mary from Illinois, USA

CRISIS NUMBER ONE? RUSSIA ANNOUNCED (WED.) IT WILL MOVE MISSILES NEAR POLAND

Brenda

This is so well said and so true.

Those who do not understand, do not have the foundation of America's Original Documents and Doctrines internalized.

They have not perceived True Freedom for Mankind.

They seek refuge in smallness and the satisfaction of immediate needs alone.

Well done, Melanie Phillips!

May we see a true return to American's Founder's ideals in 4 years, and the minimal departure therefrom in the meantime.

An American

George,
I agree with you on the press...they did everything but place the crown on the Messiah's anointed head. We can fight back however....stop watching liberal TV, stop buying all the products they advertise and let the companys know why...stop buying and reading all the liberal newspapers and magazines...same with their advertisers...let them know...money talks. Get your information from the internet. Stop supporting Hollywood.
Let's destroy the socialists newspapers, magazines and Hollywood that are helping destroy America.

john

Daniel,

Only time will tell. I am really worried about all the people Obama has had backing him from the state of Illinois and what favors he needs grant for this victory. America has been taken by a slick ad campaign where there has been much sizzle and hardly no steak.
I would like to see the culprits that allowed this financial crisis to take place be held accountable but since the majority of them are democrats and organizations like ACORN justice will not be served.

An American's Husband

derek
you can convince me to have faith in obama if you can show me that:
- socialism motivates people to work harder
- conversion of 90% of the u.s. power supply to solar and biomass can occur in 10 years.
- a voting democracy can sustain itself with 9 appointed judges in robes making new laws because they think it is the right thing to do.
- freedom of speech can continue to exist when federal laws will be passed to shut the opposition up. (momentum for the fairness doctrine is already building. google senators bingaman and schumer)
- a federal police force that is "as strong as the u.s. military" will not turn into what it has become in many other countries, a gang of thugs.
- that nationalization of the finance, drug, banking, energy, insurance enterprises will not lead to the demise of capitalism.

and so on.
pretty easy to lay this out for you. but this kind of convincing only occurs in fiction like orwells' 1984.
cheers
an american's husband

Johan Potgieter

What a nation of morons. Maybe there is hope yet in Sarah Palin's Free Alaskan Republic. If I were an Israeli Jew, I'd be very, very worried right now.

Harvey

Pete - You're just no fun ;)

See that nice Mr Obama won btw...

phil

Melanie this time you have got it wrong .the Republicans lost because they chose the wrong candidate ,a decent man too old for this task and not fit for purpose ,that was obvious to anyone who could see, and a vice P who was unelectable -that was the incompetence of their party.Now if they wish to complain they should look inwards at themselves and admit they lost a winnable election !

Ronnie your "friend" Frank P of course cuts and pastes along with his pal Verity and both massage each others ego,s on a regular basis by writing nonsense and applauding each other --- -he recently wrote 28/10 on "the content of his character" thread , that all our PM,s were bonkers- quote - "Suggestions please - and be prepared for some explosive scoffing and hysterical snorting if you attempt it!"--ok I offered Winston and of course he didn't reply or back down -he,s just full of P and wind-well they say there is no fool like an old fool,!! these threads have been full of this for months but now they will have to shut up as we have a new president and hopefully a better future

.The fools and bigots have been shown up for what they are even to the extent of giving the supreme idiot SiN a belly laugh at their expense .,how on earth can they have sunk me so low that I have been seen on the same side of the fence as him ?
None of them know what Obama will bring ,nor do I of course but we can hope and pray that he will be what he says he is, rather than what these people have accused him of without a break .The American nation has spoken loud and clear and they are far more numerate and knowledgeable than V and FP,

Sorry Melanie you know I have respect for most of what you stand for but this time I believe you were wrong ,but I retain the fear that you might just be right -we shall see .

An American's Husband

i went to bed in a semi-capitalist country and woke up in a socialist one. it is like a bad nightmare that has no end. however, this was not totally unexpected. it has been coming on for years but it was my selfish but fervent hope that i would pass along before it reached a tipping point and
became irrevocable. unlucky me. i will see the demise of the american way: nation of laws, free markets, freedom of speech, secret elections and so on.
obama (during this campaign) has opined that our constitution is fundamentally flawed. as a result the courts, particularly the supreme court, has only weighed in on matters of legal justice and has chosen not to be concerned with social justice. obama goes on to say that the latter is
"redistributional justice", code words for taking money from some and giving it to others who have not earned it. as a constitutiional scholar i assume his positions are carefully considered and not just off the cuff. since obama will appoint the next three supreme court justices. redustribution
will become the new american way.
during my lifetime i have seen the slow strangulation of free enterprise in this nation. we have in effect nationalized insurance, financial markets,
banks, hmo's and many other industries. we are well on our way to nationalizing oil and other energy-producing industries and the proposed total conversion of our electrical supply to wind, solar and biomass will have the heavy hand of the federal program managers directing it. in addition, the government will pick winners and losers. obama will (promised during this campaign) make cap and trade on carbon emmisions so onerous that any investor who tries to make electricity with coal will "go bankrupt". his
words, not mine.
there have been numerous recent assaults on freedom of speech. i am not
just talking about speech codes on campuses and the terror that
conservatives are subjected to when they attempt to articulate their points of view at campus seminars. that sort of stuff is just mob rule. i am talking about free speach becoming a violation of federal law. for instance, schumer, bingaman, pelosi and many others have promised to institute the
fairness doctrine that is just a thinly disguised move to silence the opposition. obama and other democrats will eliminate the secret elections
for the formation of unions. i believe that obama's porposed "national police force that is as big and powerful as the u.s. military" will see to
it that these laws are enforced.
i have not commented on the personal shortcomings of obama. he may or may not hate america. but he certainly has embedded himself almost exclusively in a group of people who do. it makes one wonder.
i have two closing thoughts. first, giving wealth to those who do not earn it
destroys motivation and hard work. the second relates to the largest voting block in the history of the u.s., namely the 40% who pay no income tax who
voted in extremely high percentages for obama. the quote that is relevant is
from benjamin franklin:"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

John M

Where is the over qualified cabbie. Too intelligent but still a cab driver. Has he left the universe?

David

"CRISIS NUMBER ONE?"

Bush is President until January 09.

It would really help if people knew what they were talking about.

Mark Solomon

McCain did run a terrible campaign, but he was the only candidate the Republicans could have run. Once the financial crisis hit, that was it anyway. Obama's election is a terrible muddled headed mistake, as usual the sheeple have been taken in by the glib and empty headed self propagandist and will pay the price.

The big news today is Russia moving missiles back into the Kaliningrad enclave to directly threaten Poland and the US ABM shield. That is what American enemies think of Obama - that he is weak and will not respond to their threats. They tried the same trick on JFK but he called their bluff. I suspect Obama will simply overlook the move. Europe got the man they wanted but now will have to pay the price - spend more on defence. A sad day for us all.

Robin Levett

@Patrick:

The board that Obama and Ayers (a respected education professor at the time) served on together did indeed dispense money. That money was from the Annenbergs (which is why the initiative was called the Chicago Annenberg Challenge); that's Ambassador Walter Annenberg (appointed Ambassador by Nixon), and his wife Leonore Annenberg, appointed Chief of Protocol at the State Department by Reagan. Both Annenbergs "palled around" with Reagan; and Leonore endorsed McCain's campaign for the presidency. So either you have to accept Nixon, Reagan and indeed McCain "palled around" with not just terrorists, but funders of terrorists; or you can get a bit of perspective? Unappetising prospect, perhaps, but those are your choices.

Conservative Cabbie

Congratulations to the Obama supporters, FWIW, some thoughts.

1. President Barack Obama - never thought I'd see a black President in my lifetime. An historic achievement.

2. I find the notion of a black first family even more remarkable than a black President for some reason - proof of what a great country America truly is.

3. All is not lost for the right, this wasn't a defeat of seismic proportions. I don't want to diminish Obama's win, 52% of the popular vote is a substantial endorsement, but it is not unassailable, it is only as many as Bush won in 2004. A lot of those votes have been loaned for now, a lurch to the left or a failed foreign policy will send them back to the right in four years.

4. No real Palin effect it seems, neither positive or negative. Americans really do vote the top of the ticket - as it should be.

5. The GOP don't need to lurch to the right or veer to the left, America is still a right nation. The message does need to change though. Whilst still retaining their principles, the right need to put a more positive spin on their values, demonstrate why conservatism is good for the people and the country. Invite people in, don't force people away.

6. The right need to be steadfast in their resistance to government excess and attacks on American's freedoms. It will be tough with a diminished minority in congress but they need to take principled stands against excessive spending, card check, the fairness doctrine et al. The American people will reward them in four years.

I switched on Fox today hoping to watch a stump speech, find out what the latest poll says, see if any scandal has hit. Nothing. What am I going to do with myself for the next three years?

BFree

OH dear, Chingford Man.
What a choice you had in 97.
Worn out/washed up Major, or bright change Blair.
Next time it'll be GB, or a sleek TV friendly ex PR man full of soundbites but with a strange vacuum at his core.
Hard choice again for you?

An American

David,
Your statement on the Israeli newspaper's congratulatory statements to Obama was so naive.
Obama's America will not protect Israel's safety. Several months ago Obama promised Hamas he would support them taking half of Jerusalem...Obama asked that they keep this secret until his election...but they just had to annouce it yesterday in celebration of the Messiah's victory.
I wouldn't want to wake up and be an Israeli this morning. To my friends in Israel...you are in my prayers.

Frank P

Twinky Winky Pony Palin

"It's called democracy Melanie, suck it up".

This is obviously a photo of you, twinky:

http://instapinch.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/dentures.jpg

Jill

Thanks for expressing it for us, Melanie. There are a silver linings and signs that we are not finished at all. We are just getting started.

The elite conservatives abandoned us. We have evidence of ugly discrimination against the working and middle class. It cut across party lines: Remember Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin. Good riddance to the elites.

The Democratic Party controls the White House and Congress and will appoint judges, but they did not win in numbers they hoped in Congress or in local elections across the US. We'll build again from the ground up, since the only other option is to quit. Obama and the far left will be a flash in the pan.

Let Americans experience "spread the wealth" and "civilian national security force." It will be the best argument conservatives ever had. We'll be able to defend the US Constitution and freedom with power because people will understand through negative experience. Small business and pro-family Immigrants who come here from socialist countries are rabid anti-Marxists. Americans after just one or two years of Obama may be pleading with conservatives for rescue.

The MSM is already excusing Obama in office to reframe and direct the population’s future angst. They know Obama's popularity will fall. They compare the economy to the Great Depression as a way to blame capitalism and grant Obama license to make mistakes without accountability. They do not want us to do to Obama what they did to Bush. There are numerous pro-Bush articles this day talking about the things he accomplished, things they should have been reporting for the last four years. They are wooing conservatives who are mad at them, and they are making a slow transition in style and tone so we won't notice any stark difference in reporting (Bush to Obama).

I'm listening on conservative talk radio to an American boy (around twelve years old) who wrote a book, "Define Conservatism." (Go to defineconservatism.com) He says, "[conservatives] need to fight and can't wait for someone to come along and pick them up." (We can't look elsewhere, Melanie. That's what moochers and big babies do.) The boy says ‘the Republicans did not clearly articulate the definition of capitalism to the electorate. This [election] is our process; it is peaceful, and there are consequences and responsibilities that come with elections.' (So cute.) There is always hope when such statements come from children.

Rush Limbaugh makes a good point, too. He says, conservatism was not on the ballot yesterday...bi-partisan liberal republicanism was. And about the elites, he says we should make certain they don't come back. He says it will be easier for conservatives since moderates got what they want, and it did not work. They are the ones who hindered us. We have the rebirth of principled conservative opposition to the extreme left. All the moderate liberal Republicans lost their seats in Congress!!! yeeeee hahahahahaaaaaaaa!!!!

There is always this: There is a slim hope that Obama will not be just another big government, anti-business, pro-terrorist, tax and spend Democrat... (crickets)

Dont give up on us, yet, Melanie!!! We have a three part election: this election we got rid of moderate liberal Republicans; the next two elections we will get rid of the socialists.

David Lindsay

At the same time as they voted heavily for Obama in California, and comfortably for him in Florida, they also voted (very strongly in Florida, at least) to define marriage as only ever the union of one man and one woman.

That is one of several illustrations of the fact that this is a victory for morally and socially conservative foreign policy realists (as far from pacifism as from neoconservatism).

If Democrats, whether permanently or even for the purposes of a single election, they are only ever and by definition Democrats for economically populist reasons. Which are, of course, the right reasons.

Those who the people who have put Obama in. And those are the people who could and should put him right back out again in 2012 if he does not deliver the goods on all three of economic populism, moral and social conservatism (at the very least, don't make matters any worse), and foreign policy realism.

Yes, of course he is going to beat Sarah Palin anyway. But he has no absolute right to be the Democratic nominee at all.

Look at the huge numbers now registering as Democrats. They cannot be Hard Leftists, diehard liberals or peaceniks, since people like that were already registered Democrats.

And they might not always have nowhere else to go.

derek

an american's husband:

- socialism motivates people to work harder
* you have no clue as to what you are talking about if you think Obama is a socialist. that's just not my liberal MSM telling me that either.

- conversion of 90% of the u.s. power supply to solar and biomass can occur in 10 years.
* you don't like energy independence as a goal?

- a voting democracy can sustain itself with 9 appointed judges in robes making new laws because they think it is the right thing to do.
* and what new laws might a Supreme Court that currently only has 2 justices that were appointed by a Democratic president make?

- freedom of speech can continue to exist when federal laws will be passed to shut the opposition up. (momentum for the fairness doctrine is already building. google senators bingaman and schumer)
* Obama and I are both not fans of the Fairness Doctrine. But the extreme right-wing slant you pulled by describing the Fairness Doctrine has an attempt to shut the opposition up is typical of a Limbaugh fan. How about the freedom of speech that went out the window with the Patriot Act?

- a federal police force that is "as strong as the u.s. military" will not turn into what it has become in many other countries, a gang of thugs.
* again, an extreme right-wing slant. this one is pretty insane too. if you listen to the whole speech he is explicitly describing Americans serving their country in the way of community service - not as a police force. is this seriously an argument you are using? i can only hope you take the time to find out these things yourself instead of from Limbaugh/WND/Drudge/etc.

- that nationalization of the finance, drug, banking, energy, insurance enterprises will not lead to the demise of capitalism.
* there are whole sectors of the market that are too risky for any capitalist to invest in. had the financial industry been operating under some regulation, the market lends itself to capitalism as well as production. there is a balance needed. The complete lack of government involvement in the financial industry is why we are where we are today.

- pretty easy to lay this out for you. but this kind of convincing only occurs in fiction like orwells' 1984.
* yeah...i still believe there is hope for you.

derek

Happy, Windsor

Seems there is a Comment Deletion virus on this thread!

Doesn't like the word 'Smear' (or its derivatives) by the look of it.

David

"Your statement on the Israeli newspaper's congratulatory statements to Obama was so naive."

It was the paper's own statement.
Further 77 per cent of Jewish voters voted Obama, according to CNN exit polls.
Obama was the first US presidential candidate to explicitely state Jerusalem was the eternal capital of Israel; conversely Bush was the first US president to state that there must be a Palestinian state along the 67 borders.

Which one is best for Israel?

"Whilst still retaining their principles, the right need to put a more positive spin on their values, demonstrate why conservatism is good for the people and the country. Invite people in, don't force people away."

I agree. The problem is, the GOP is increasingly becoming populated by negatives. Against gay marriage (I thought marriage was supposed to be something consrvatives support?) , against imimigrants (I thought hard working people who get off their arses and seek work to better themselves and their familes was something conservatives support?) etc etc. There's a whole raft of things that conservatives are for, but which the GOP has decided don't apply because they don't like a particular group of people.

Which is another thing I though conservatives were for - not telling people how they should live their lives.

There is a positive way forward, and McCain of 2000 showed some of it (see South Park for the rest...). But I'm becoming increasingly convinced the GOP cannot see it.

Brendan M. Kelly

Has Mark Steyn been channeling Melanie Philips?

"I congratulate Senator Obama on a remarkable and decisive victory. It was in many ways the final battle in a war the Republican Party didn’t even bother fighting — the “long march through the institutions.” While the Senator certainly enjoyed the patronage of the Chicago machine, he is not primarily a political figure: Whether “educators” like William Ayers or therapeutic pop-culture types like Oprah, his closest associations are beyond the world of electoral politics. He emerged rather from all the cultural turf the GOP largely abandoned during its 30-year winning streak at the ballot box, and his victory demonstrates the folly of assuming that folks will continue to pull the lever for guys with an R after their name every other November even as all the other institutions in society become de facto liberal one-party states.

Bill Bennett asked me on the air the other day why voters were so hot for this hope’n’change mush, and I suggested that it’s the dominant vernacular of the age. Go into almost any American grade-school and stroll the corridors: you’ll find the walls lined with Sharpie-bright supersized touchy-feely abstractions: “RESPECT,” “DREAM,” “TOGETHER,” “DIVERSITY.” By contrast, Mister Maverick talked of “reaching across the aisle” and ending “earmarks,” which may sound heroic in Washington but ring shriveled and reductive to anyone who’s not obsessed with legislative process. This dead language embodied the narrow sliver of turf on which he was fighting, while Obama was bestriding the broader cultural space. Republicans need to start their own long march back through all the institutions they ceded. Otherwise, the default mode of this society will be liberal, and what’s left of the Republican party will be reduced (as in other parts of the west) to begging the electorate for the occasional opportunity to prove it can run the liberal state just as well as liberals can."

mike

i'm sure your people can go back and rig the ballot again like last time. there's still time!
and by the way, what is the problem? the last eight years of right wing republican blunders have been what exactly? a success?

fellow traveller

Cabbie

thanks for that reasoned response.

Melanie

"...teaching American children to despise the founding values of their country and hijacking discourse by the minority power-grab of victim-culture."

Which is about as far from the actual content of his patriotic, "yes we can" acceptance speech as you could possibly get.

I've no problem with anyone here saying that Obama is untested, that republicans should be a strong opposition, that we still have to create workable solutions to the problems of fundamentalism. Change brings risks and will upset many people.

But taking all the available evidence and manipulating it to make it say the opposite of what was actually said is just a way to distract from the real problems we all face today.

daniel

Brendon, re. Mark Steyn's contribution, I used to read Mark avidly when he had interesting things to say about the war on terror and appeasement of islamic extremism. The last time this happened was about five years ago, ie before his confident assertion that Osama Bin Laden had been reduced to a few specks of DNA proved a little premature. This, after all, is the man who predicted that the Iraq War would be a "cakewalk". Now he's just another has been neo-con, put out to pasture like all the rest. He's right, of course, that the Republicans need to re-think their strategy, but he's part of the problem, not the solution.

Verity

Daniel, a lot of deeply unsophisticted posts on this thread this morning, but I'm choosing to respond to yours because it encapsulates everything that is wrong with Marxism in its fight against civilisation.

Do you really think Mr Bush is responsible for global turmoil and the collapse of the financial markets (I know this isn't your point, because you're too provincial to appreciate its gravity; it boils down to your hatred of Republican principles - but the hands of the President are tied, quite rightly, and if the Congress doesn't let him do what he wants to do, he cannot carry out a programme. This Congress will bend the knee to Obama and we will see major disasters from his hate-driven, ill thought out "policies"). Now you've elevated the mobster complicit in the collapse of the American mortgage industry and sending the world teetering on the brink of financial turmoil, to run the show - and a Democratic Congress may be complicit, although I would hope for some voices of sanity, even among Democrats.

How very naive and stupid. You also have, for the first time in American history, a First Lady who has publicly stated that she hates America.

Way to go.

You write, with a silly little ignorant grin of triumph, "A final point: my best friend at college was once a member of the militant tendency - does this make me a communist?"

I'm not getting the connection here. Had your friend murdered 13 people and stated publically that he wished it had been more? William Ayres, who sponsored the beginning of Obama's run for the presidency in his living room, with fellow terrorist/murderer Bernadine Dohrn, who has also stated, "We didn't do enough" has publically avowed his continued interest in destroying America. This terrorist also slid Obama - as unqualified as he is for anything other than being a poster boy for affirmative action, into important, destructive organisations, like ACORN. Obama, after three years in the Senate doing bugger all is, out of over 300 Congresspeople, the second-largest recipient of funds from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. To help you with the maths - he's 298 ahead of every other senator and representative.

Prediction: When things get really, really bad, look for secessions.

I can't wait to see Texas an independent republic again. Its motto is currently Six Flags over Texas. Let it be seven! There's a similar robustness of spirit and contempt for Washington in Alaska, and I would look at them as a possibility, too. The two richest states in the nation.

And what was the state referred to, the one with vast reserves of coal, when Obama said he was going to "bankrupt the coal industry". Expect them to go, too.

But never mind. They're ecstatic in Kenya.

SAL

About 10 years after Hitler wrote Mein Kampf—Hitler’s manifesto on HEGEMONY of the German people—a Sardinian Communist intellectual by the name of ANTONIO GRAMSCI, while also in jail, wrote his own manifesto on how to subvert western societies from within. Since Marxism was a failure, Gramsci reasoned that the only way to topple the repressive Western institutions was by, what he called, “a long march through the culture” subverting the main pillars of Western civilization, including Christianity, capitalism, authority, the family, morality, tradition, sexual restraint, loyalty, patriotism, nationalism, heredity, ethnocentrism, convention, conservatism and especially the language. At the heart of his teachings were to covertly take control, you had to secure HEGEMONY over the elites in a society starting with, and in order of priority:

1. Academia
2. The Media
3. Judicial
4. Pop culture
5. Political

On November the fourth, a giant step forward on that long march through the culture is complete.

George Steiner

Somebody asked the question who will Obambi toss under the bus first?

As his Moslem heritage and his own inclination dictates, as a socialist and a lawyer, he will toss first Israel.

He will engage with all of the enemies of the United States, Syria, Iran, Palestinians, et all. And as he said, will change the world.

At least he will try. Since by this time Israel will have a new government lead by Netanyahu instead of the hapless Olmert, tossing will not be easy. You may not have noticed but when asked a direct question. Will you defend Israel? Obambi’s answer was “we will do a cost benefit analysis”.

This is a good answer. Netanyahu will be able to make a good offer of the cost to the Arabs and Obambi will see the benefit of not tossing. This will be the first lesson in cost benefit analysis. But he will have many more.

David

"They're ecstatic in Kenya."

And the US, which is the most important thing. The parties looked fantastic.

James

56 million Americans voted against Obama despite everything. This is a day of mourning. Our Republic is in peril. Terrorists everywhere are rejoicing and sending congratulations to Obama. They know who their friends are. To those celebrating keep this in mind: you are on your own now. We will not help you. Good luck or better yet salaam (get used to Arabic).

Marco Polo

I pity the true Americans like "An American's husband" and others on here who are dismayed at the Election of Obama. He is very correct that he has woken up to a Socialist USA and that is a very worrying situation. Socialists are absolutely fantastic at creating new ideas, bringing in change and of course creating as many new laws as they possibly can. The only problem is they don't think it through. They just haven't got a clue what to do when it all goes pear shaped and always leave it to the right to sort it out. Oddly enough the right are right by name and nature. Maybe we should change the left to 'Wrong' going along the same lines?
I would hate to be an Israeli Jew right now and in fact in the future. I really wonder what's going to happen when the new US administration sit down with the Islamic Terrorists:

USA : What could we do to stop Al Qaeda waging war on the West and USA in particular?
Terrorists : Let us destroy Israel
USA : Erm...that's a bit drastic, I don't think we could....
Terrorists: Ok we continue to wage Jihad on the West and USA.
USA : Ok, erm you can attack Israel, you and as many other countries as long as we have your word that you will stop attacking the West?
Terrorists : Ok, we attack Israel and then we talk about the future of West....
USA : But wait I though....
Terrorists: No, your choice, we destroy Israel and remove the infidels from Islamic Soil and that is for payment of all the Muslims America has killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, then we talk, or else we have no deal?
USA : Erm ok, we agree....

It's sad to see that the USA is about to experience the same as what Britain's experienced here under NuLabour.
It still amazes me that the Left wing are just so intent on sitting on a tree bough while they saw away at the trunk. Nothing more than madness. America, the most powerful Nation in the World in 2.5months will be under the control of a Man with very dubious ties and a society, that has voted him in because of his colour. They will watch as their country becomes even more multicultural. They will watch as immigration increases and they are given more rights as Americans. They will see their tradesmen get frustrated as they lose work to foreigners undercutting them by 50%. The Left will then realise when they haven't got work and their company's being sued by Ali Babah because he had to walk through a room where people were eating bacon, that voting in Obama was about as clever as putting a chocolate fireguard in from the fire. They will look on in dismay as American soldiers are spat on and attacked by the many 'new' Multiculturals living in the USA who, unlike previous ones, have no intention of embracing American culture and ways of life but instead to come and destroy it and instil their own, from their land of birth. They will pull their hair out as more political correctness comes into play and calling anything black will end them up on a law suit for racism...

I can see it all now and I have to say I'll laugh when the left wingers in America, the ardent Democrats realise that they've really got it wrong this time, just like many Labour supporters here. The problem is, will you realise soon enough or will the rot set in and seriously damage the very foundations and strength of your country? Remember that once something's gone, it's gone for good. I may be the Harbinger of Doom like Melanie Phillips and others, but let's just hope that the above doesn't happen to America and Obama does pull through, because if it doesn't you're all really going to :

Remember, remember the 5th of November the day you elected Obama. Your country will suffer, your freedoms will die and you'll be pulling your hair out screaming "oh Mama"!

emberposse

Not much change: Democrat wins and the west's biggest enemies line up to offer congratulations.

Oh, and Kenya has a national holiday. How sweet.

I'm looking forward to former President Carter being given the job of SoS and talking to Iran without pre-conditions.

Have a fun 4 years people.

Kennybhoy

conservative cabbie wrote

"What am I going to do with myself for the next three years?"

Invest in gold or a nuclear shelter maybe....?

For myself "I am off to die with Odin."

rob r

Oh the howling and gnashing of teeth! You'd think Stalin had seized power by force rather than a liberal centrist being voted in by a huge majority...

Groovy Times

I usually agree with Melanie on issues concerning Israel and anti-Semitism, and admire her courage, intellect and incisive prose on defending Jews and their rights, but I can't get my head round this anti-Obama obsession. Is he not a product of the democratic values that Melanie espouses? And the alternative? - Sarah Palin second in charge to that whistling old fogey?

Conservative Cabbie

David

I agree largely on conservatism going forward.

The conservatism movement should primarily be a low tax fiscally responsible movement. It should target education reform (America performs terribly) and energy independence as two of it's main policies. I see energy being the main debate come 2012 assuming the economy recovers somewhat and there are no new wars.

Social conservatism is fine, but as I said, they need to adopt a more positive, embracing culture here. It's fine to be pro-life, that's a fundamental tenet of the American conservative movement, but rather than criminalising people, they need to focus on adoption and support as ways to encourage women, particularly young women, to not abort.

As for gay marriage, I believe I'm right in saying that all the propositions to ban gay marriage passed - they appear to be on the side of the majority here. Personally, I have no problem with it. However, I do understand that religious values assert that marriage should be between a man and a woman. Again, this view should be tempered by ensuring that the rights of gay couples are protected.

There biggest problem is going to be immigration. If they have a chance of winning in 2012, at least 1 if not 2 of Nevada, Colorado and New Mexico will need to be won. They got hammered last night by the latino vote, something they will need to turn around. Unfortunately, this is an area I don't see the right compromising on - I'm not even sure what the compromise can be. Amnesty will be unacceptable to the right and a "path to citizenship" seems to be unacceptable to the latino community.

The conservatives will need a dynamic, principled leader. Who that person is, Palin, Jindal or whomever, I don't know although my early money's on Jindal (although I want Palin). Bill Kristol made an interesting point last night about the future of the GOP. Four years ago following Kerry's defeat, Barack Obama was just a state senator. Perhaps the future leader is someone we don't even know about yet.

Herbert Thornton

It will not be surprising if Obama succeeds in implementing some policies that turn out to be unsuccessful, or even cause more harm than good, but I am not so pessimistic as to believe that he is going to be a disaster. Even with a Democratic majority in Congress, his power will fall a lot shorter of dictatorship than is usually the case with the office of Prime Minister in any of the British Parliamentary systems.

Melanie cites - presumably as a Bad Thing - the infiltration of "Islamic Banking" principles into the U.S. banking system but I do not understand her objections to it. Banking is quite a different matter from stoning innocent women to death for being raped.

The current banking system of the entire western world is certainly not ideal as is shown by its allowing the devising and proliferation of worthless "securities" that caused the financial crisis, and by the fact that it has allowed those who touted and trafficked in these worthless financial instruments to enrich themselves on a scale that deserves the description of "criminal".

If the principles of Islamic banking would have prevented this disaster then they deserve at least to be looked at - the fact that the word "Islamic" is attached to them should not, of itself, make them unthinkable - any more than the stigma of "Nazi" that people tend to associate with Hjalmar Schacht's highly successful financial management on behalf of Hitler should render his financial concepts unthinkable.

On foreign policy, I am not so ready to condemn Obama. I prefer to keep an open mind. For example, if he fulfills his indications of support for Israel and a stepped-up campaign against Al Qaeda it will be something we should welcome.

With respect to Russia, I have no idea what direction he will take. Some people are saying that Obama will fail to curb Russian ambitions. I think we should hope not that he will increase hostility between the U.S. and Russia, but that he will lessen it.

The U.S. has already made great mistakes - under both Presidents Clinton and Bush - in its policies with respect to the Balkans and the countries bordering on Russia. President Bush's cavalier rejection of the Russian offer to cooperate in the establishment of radar facilities that would detect Iranian missile launches and his insistence instead on positioning radar sites just outside Russia's borders was a very great mistake.

We have to hope that Obama will come to a rapprochement with Russia: if he does, it should not be condemned as weakness, but welcomed as statesmanship. Russia is in fact potentially America's most important ally in the current struggle between the civilised world and Islam. Obama should do everything possible to turn the American-Russian relationship into a firm alliance.

Kathie in Arizona USA

My name is Kathie and I live in Arizona in the States. I read a few of the comments written here and I'm afraid many of you don't quite understand America. First of all I voted for John McCain because he's a very good man and a strong leader. Second of all, everything about the election seemed fixed or predetermined and that is really not fair in an election. Before all the count was in - he (Obama) had been elected President. Here being a man who has a Muslim name, who went to a church for years that spewed hatred for whites, a man who rarely changes his expression and doesn't make very good eye contact, who doesn't salute the flag or feel patriotic and one who doesn't really seem to care about the people as much as he cares about being the "First Of"

And unfortunately, our country is now filled with drug controlled, lazy people who want to be taken care of and bailed out of problems. They don't want to work but the rest of us work hard. It's the people who are unwilling to change themselves that wanted the change - but at what price?

I was sad with the election results and many other people here are as well - only in the United States, everything is deemed politically correct and most people do not speak out or against what the majority wants. And that, my dear English friends, is the sad part of this story.

You can take that or leave it or what is it you said to Melanie - Suck it Up!

Norm

My take on this is that McCain was a sacrificial lamb. My American friends who are lifelong Republicans voted for Obama because of Bush. The Rebublicans knew this would happen so they put up someone who was decent but expendable. Just like Tony Blair v The Tories in 97. The people were sick of the Tories just as Americans were sick of Bush. So McCain introduced Palin. The Republicans now have someone who can attack Obama and will get heard because she's a woman and she may well become the first woman President. In four years when the country has seen Obama for what he is and Palin who by that time will have been groomed just like Obama will succeed. The democrats are scared of her that is why she has suffered such a mauling in the media. But next time around Obama will have a record to defend and that is when he will be vunerable. The left has cut the heart out of Britain and America is next in line.

Barackobama

Verity has hit a nail on the head with her suggestion that the confederate states should secede. The problems with US politics can be summarised into three items:

1 The president is too powerful. Apart from being able to make war and having a qualified power to veto congressional legislation, the president has massive powers of patronage. This is good if you like his/her politics. But bad when you don't. The US came into existence principally because the small number of rich, white males who controlled the economy of the colonies in 1776 didn't like King George III (since no more people could vote after the revolution than before, the break with the crown was not about democracy, and since slavery was implicitly allowed in the US constitution, it wasn't about human rights either). They replaced the unwritten UK constitution with rules that vested power in an American King, called president so it sounded different, to prevent anarchy/libertarianism. Since 1783, the British monarch has been stripped of power, but the president of the US just seems to get more. Conservatives that fear Obama and libertarians that want to end presidential fiat should combine to strip the presidency of all but ceremonial duties (then it wouldn't matter if Obama was an Islamic Marxist terror agent).
2 Congress doesn't work. The principal of an elected legislature with a limited term debating and passing laws is the cornerstone of democracy. If it's not working, reform it (difficult, I know).
3 The US is far too big (and diverse). A management consultant might suggest five or more homogenous sovereign but associated entities: the confederacy for Verity and conservatives; New England for Liberals, Marxists, Islamists and terror gangs; the Pacific coast for the culturally heterodox; the southern Mid-West for Catholics and the northern mid-west for people who like snow. Alaska should, of course, become independent under President Palin.
This would defuse the tensions mounting in the US between people who, from what I read on this blog, seem to hate each other almost to the point of violence. At a stroke, there would be an end to big government in Washington (because it would return to being an irrelevant border town between the north and south). It would probably be more economically efficient. And it would be less threatening to the rest of the world (and also be less likely to be blamed for everything as well).
I suspect this may have been what the Founding Fathers really intended.
True conservatives and genuine libertarians should welcome the abolition of an inherently defective innovation in government that has been tried for more than two centuries and still, it appears, doesn't work. Alternatively, Americans could continue being very rude about each other. This is something that I was taught was evidence of being badly raised.

Elizabeth

Being an amateur family tree historian I'm rather concerned at the entries I found when I googled "Barack Hussein Obama"+"birth certificate". Reducing the problem to its basics, if BHO was born in Kenya (as suggested in some detail) then he was ineligible to stand for the Presidency (IIRC Henry Kissinger was never able to stand for President because he was born outside the USA). If this is the case then BHO has lied one of the biggest lies of all time - now why would that be? One internet poster has carried out a very detailed technical analysis of the Certificate of Live Birth purported to be that of BHO that makes disturbing reading. I very, very much hope that I'm wrong and that there's a reasonable explanation for this state of affairs.

logdon

At the risk of repeating myself, I'll repeat myself. Here's a morality tale.

Obama’s leaky plumbing

Barack Obama discovers a leak under his sink, so he calls Joe the Plumber to come and fix it.

Joe drives to Obama’s house, which is located in a very nice neighborhood and where it’s clear that all the residents make more than $250,000 per year.

Joe arrives and takes his tools into the house. Joe is led to the room that contains the leaky pipe under a sink. Joe assesses the problem and tells Obama, who is standing near the door, that it’s an easy repair that will take less than 10 minutes.

Obama asks Joe how much it will cost.

Joe immediately says, "$9,500."

$9,500?" Obama asks, stunned. "But you said it’s an easy repair!"

"Yes, but what I do is charge a lot more to my clients who make more than $250,000 per year so I can fix the plumbing of everybody who makes less than that for free," explains Joe. "It’s always been my philosophy. As a matter of fact, I lobbied government to pass this philosophy as law, and it did pass earlier this year, so now all plumbers have to do business this way. It’s known as ‘Joe’s Fair Plumbing Act of 2008.’ Surprised you haven’t heard of it, senator."

In spite of that, Obama tells Joe there’s no way he’s paying that much for a small plumbing repair, so Joe leaves.

Obama spends the next hour flipping through the phone book looking for another plumber, but he finds that all other plumbing businesses listed have gone out of business. Not wanting to pay Joe’s price, Obama does nothing.

The leak under Obama’s sink goes unrepaired for the next several days.

A week later the leak is so bad that Obama has had to put a bucket under the sink. The bucket fills up quickly and has to be emptied every hour, and there’s a risk that the room will flood, so Obama calls Joe and pleads with him to return.

Joe goes back to Obama’s house, looks at the leaky pipe, and says "Let’s see - this will cost you about $21,000."

"A few days ago you told me it would cost $9,500!" Obama quickly fires back.

Joe explains the reason for the dramatic increase. "Well, because of the ‘Joe’s Fair Plumbing Act,’ a lot of rich people are learning how to fix their own plumbing, so there are fewer of you paying for all the free plumbing I’m doing for the people who make less than $250,000. As a result, the rate I have to charge my wealthy paying customers rises every day.

"Not only that, but for some reason the demand for plumbing work from the group of people who get it for free has skyrocketed, and there’s a long waiting list of those who need repairs. This has put a lot of my fellow plumbers out of business, and they’re not being replaced - nobody is going into the plumbing business because they know they won’t make any money. I’m hurting now too - all thanks to greedy rich people like you who won’t pay their fair share."

Obama tries to straighten out the plumber: "Of course you’re hurting, Joe! Don’t you get it? If all the rich people learn how to fix their own plumbing and you refuse to charge the poorer people for your services, you’ll be broke, and then what will you do?"

Joe immediately replies, "Run for president, apparently."

Last laugh for the plumber? Ha, bloody ha!

D Day

Unfortunately, there is no where else to look. Certainly not Britain. You appear to be a lonely voice among "Conservatives" who have no principles at all.

Daibhidh MacAdhaimh

I might have agreed with your assessment before I went to sleep last night. However, when I awoke to the election results this morning, I felt a pleasing sense of relief.
Call it the work of an epiphany or some other ethereal experience if you like, but Obama's victory seemed to me to be a welcome breath of fresh political air - and boy, don't we in the socially and economically conflict ridden West need it at present.
I was once a bitter leftist who over years of dissilusionment has lurched steadily towards and occupied right-wing bitterness - not a healthy frame of mind for anybody to sustain. Nah, I can't bring myself to viewing Obama's win through a glass darkly; it'd eat me up again if I did. As the bible says, all authority under heaven is given by God. Therefore it's not just the people but more importantly, it is God that has appointed him head of government in the same way He appointed the present incumbent whether or not we like either of them or past presidents - God is no respector of man. I'm not persuaded that Obama is a full-blown socialist certainly not in the 'to every man his need' category unless he plans to lead by example. If anything, his plans look set to be a reprise of Keynesian economics.
Americans only digest so much of a president's ideology. They have the assurance of congress and senate elections every two and four years to check any excess.
If conservative instincts do need to be stroked reassuringly, perhaps de Valera's 'the majority are not always right' dictum suffices for now.
In the meantime, I've sacked my right-wing tendencies and their collective bitterness and retreated to the centre of political gravity from where I am prepared to give Obama the benefit of the doubt.
May God bless and protect him in the exercise of the compelling and challenging governing task that lies ahead.

john doe

Here's Martin Luther King on Israel

http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/ml_king.html

I can't imagine such an impassioned plea from Obambi

Hayward Maberley

SAL,
Surface Air Lifted?
Godwin's Law, first formulated in 1990 by Mike Godwin, states;
"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Dodds Corollary to this states;
"When debating a particular subject, if a comparison or implied connection is drawn between the opponent's argument and Hitler and the Nazi Party, the maker of that statement is automatically discredited and the debate is automatically lost by the person or group who referenced the connection to Hitler or the Nazis."
Congratulations & commiserations

Richard

The worst part is going to be the bloody smugness exuding from every liberal, leftwing and wet conservative rag and reporter.
The McCain campaign was incoherent to a degree but it was also a very honest and decent campaign. In my view, the incoherence of the campaign actually stems from the incoherence of mainstream rightwing thinking. Intellectually the fightback against liberal-leftism has only just begun. I've posted on my blog and elsewhere that the Republicans need to tackle the domestic issues - they have ruled on foreign policy thanks to McCain and Bush's bravery on the "surge" in Iraq. But this election was decided by the media and by the issue of the economy - where were the journalists who would look at the Democrats slogans on the economy and shred them as nonsense, explaining that lack of restrictive regulation was not the cause of the crisis but the sub-prime market, pushed by the Democrats? The answer is that those journalists are confined to a few like Charles Krauthammer or on excellent papers such as The Weekly Standard.
Conservatism has to pick up from here and develop a One Nation model. We should care for the poor and unfortunate, create openings so that capital and wealth can flourish, creating work and in that way, "spreading the wealth around".
If the conservatives in the USA cannot bring themselves to contemplate an NHS style system, then I have proposed an alternative "lite" model that will outflank the Democrats and play a part in a fightback centred on patriotism, reform of government, honour and ethics.
I'll put it here below:
"The federal government provides a basic healthcare voucher which consumers can use to shop around for the best healthcare deal. In return for the abolition of corporation tax on healthcare providers, the government and the healthcare providers agree on a basic regulatory framework of consumer rights, a set of standardised insurance plans into which consumers must buy and an agreed limiting of drug prices based on a compromise between market and R&D costs and affordability for consumers. This would act in the same manner, I believe, as the regulatory framework the British government uses for energy, telephony etc in Britain where the companies then compete on price and service within a framework that guarentees a competative market."
The education system must be tackled, starting at state and district level to start to eradicate the poison being fed into young minds but above all to restore the education system to its real mission - the effective and competative EDUCATION of children. Children in the USA and Britain cannot do Victorian or Edwardian mathematics...they cannot do the mathematics taught to me in the early 1990s (and that wasn't up to much).
"Progressive" liberal ideas in education aim at dismantling class barriers but by aiming at equivalence actually reinforce these by making family money the deciding factor in education. Private schools by and large provide a better standard of basic education than the state schools - this is not due to any inherent virtue of private education but to the drivel that teachers now teach. Even if in Britian we started on an ideal reconstruction of education, because the teachers know nothing but the National Curriculum, it would take two or three generations to repair the damage wrought since the early 1970s.
I come from the Labour Party and remain there because there are still a few who will fight Islamic terrorism, who believe that national defence is NOT a form of state terrorism and who despair at the intellectual state of the West. Why am I not in the Conservative Party? Because the Conservatives will not care about the poorest but will ignore or spit on them. Because of David Cameron, who though I applaud him for attacking the BBC over Rossgate (even though he was saying only what everyone else was thinking), remains in my estimation, a vapid, hollow salesman. I'll attract derision here for saying Tony Blair was not at anypoint that. Blair was and remains a decent, principled and noble man for whom I have the deepest respect - even if he is wrong on AGW.

Verity

SAL - Although I certainly agree with your post, most of the people who mention Gramsci on these pages - and he is mentioned two or three times every week in various contexts -refer to "the long march through the institutions".

I believe this is the correct quotation. "Long march through the culture" just sounds so namby-pamby and New Labouresque.

Anyway, the rest of your post was interesting and if you want to make dark references to Gramsci in the expectation that people will know who you are talking about, you are in the right place.

Roberta

I can’t say I buy of the analyses being made about what it all means.

Daniel Finkelstein (who normally knows better) in The Times today says the momentum behind this victory is mainly to do with demographics. Yet if we look at the popular vote it was 53% for Obama and 47% for McCain.

This was despite McCain’s dreadful campaign (I have never found him an inspiring candidate, this election was always about the lesser of two evils), despite the tainted Republican image for incompetence in Washington over the last eight years and despite the level of media bias against him.

Even with all those handicaps, the polls still show that the turning point for the McCain camp was the financial meltdown.

The lesson - and either many right wing commentators don’t get this or don’t feel they should actually put it in writing - is, if you can, shut your mouth. Don’t start offering up analyses such as the ‘fundamentals of the American economy are strong’ - or whatever it was McCain said - and any other hostages to fortune.

What was the Obama soundbite to counter that? There wasn’t one. He knew the right response: just hide behind your aides as much as you can.

On the subject of media bias, Channel 4 News has just had an interview with Time magazine’s senior correspondent Joe Klein and he was joking about how Michelle Obama teased him about how he couldn’t write a book on them because they were so boring. Jon Snow picked up the joke by mentioning Obama’s Mandelsonian mortgage.

Klein’s response? There isn’t any politician in America who doesn’t have a skeleton in their cupboard.

So that’s all right, then. Let’s all take our cue from Time magazine and say Mr Mandelson should be pardoned.

This epitomises the mainstream media’s handling of Obama. All normal levels of scrutiny are simply abandoned. The story of a dodgy mortgage involving a convicted felon is left cold. Why?

Imagine a contemporary remake of All The Presidents’ Men. What would it be called now? All The President’s Fawning Men?

Deep Throat: “Follow the money.”

Reporter: “Everybody’s got a skeleton in their cupboard, go back to bed.”

The End.

Roll credits.

This film was brought to you by the Hollywood for Obama campaign.

Verity

Anyway! Who do we want to be Palin's running mate in 2012?

I still favour Bobby Jindal and he will have completed two terms of governorship of Louisiana (God willing) by then.

Palin's attractive, quick of wit and the First Dude is a looker, and there is an independence of spirit about them. Bobby Jindal is witty, urbane, vastly competent and has a beautiful wife.

They're both dedicated to freedom and free enterprise and they're both immensely personable.

David

Of course, logdon's tale fails if you have Obama saying "Oh yes, that sounds decent, fair enough."

It's actually reminiscent of how many doctors operated pre-NHS. They charged their richer patients more in order to allow them to treat the poor for free.

Joe Camel

Melanie, I look forward to reading your views on Obama's choice of chief of staff, fellow Chicago pol Rahm Emanuel.

Apparently strongly pro-Israel, close to AIPAC, the son of an Irgun fighter, holding (one source says) dual Israel-US nationality . . . Sounds promising, wouldn't you say?

JK

I just heard this from a friend in Chicago.

Someone asked one of the platform workers why the bulletproof glass for the acceptance speech was so high.

He goes: “Have you seen the size of the chip on Michelle’s shoulder?”

derek

Verity,
Do you really think Sarah Palin has any chance to be successful in a run at President? if she is the Rep. Party nominee, they will lose again and again and again.

I'm all for having the best candidate, regardless of party. Sarah Palin would be worse than GW Bush.

Republican American

Just like American companies sell their products through advertising so did Obama sell his candidacy. And like people fall for the promises of marketers so fell the majority of Americans.
I agree with many of Melanie’s concerns for the years ahead but let us not forget that one man, even a President, cannot change the infrastructure of America. Even with a majority of Democrats in Congress there are still checks and balances to ensure that all US citizens are represented.
I fervently agree with John McCain’s statement -
“I urge all Americans who supported me to join me in not just congratulating him[Obama], but offering our next president our good will and earnest effort to find ways to come together to find the necessary compromises to bridge our differences and help restore our prosperity, defend our security in a dangerous world, and leave our children and grandchildren a stronger, better country than we inherited. Whatever our differences, we are fellow Americans.”
Obama’s reign will be scrutinized and any and all shortfalls will be noted (not by US media of course) and in 4 years (or 8) he too will pass to the arena of million-dollar-ex-president-speakers.

Dave M

Daniel is quite correct in all he outlines in his comment. Yes, I can see why Melanie has misgivings over the possibility of the U.S, abandoning its Anglo/European values as this is what happened to the Romans when more ethnically diverse emperors were put into office. Even so, Daniel points out correctly what a disaster for the U.S. Bush has been. He's spent billions of dollars to overthrow a secular Iraq, strengthen Iran and inevitably weaken Israel. True, Bush does have a sound knowledge of American economic matters but is a virtual ignoramus when it comes to the rest of the globe around him. Obama, on the other hand, is an educated African American who overcame many obstacles to get where he is at this time. He carries a huge burden on his shoulders as he will not wish to let down all the thousands of black and white voters who trusted him to deliver. His task will be to rebuild a strong economy, use more diplomacy in international affairs and, sure, he will support Israel when push comes to shove. The real difficulty here is Obama, through no fault of his own, is a divisive figure. Many thousands of Americans are horrified he has come into office and genuinely believe he's going to bring about huge changes for the worse. In reality, I suspect he will be very level headed and cautious. Time will tell.

fellow traveller

Kathie

"our country is now filled with drug controlled, lazy people who want to be taken care of and bailed out of problems. They don't want to work but the rest of us work hard."

I don't want to be divisive at that time, but that's certainly not Barack Obama's fault. Maybe part of his vision for the US is that in the future there will be fewer of these people, which would be good for all of us. It certainly is in the substance of his policies (tax breaks for companies creating jobs in the US) and his rhetoric last night.

I understand how you feel though.

Me

Verity, whom every is Palin's running mate they must have money and lots of it. Too bad Schwarzenegger was not born in America. The Terminator would surely keep the riff raff out of our country ;)

Hickory

...and the winner is, democracy!
The people have spoken. But I'd like to thank Melanie and others for all the dire warnings. I, being a careful type, shall don my hard hat when outdoors so that the sky shall simply bounce off my bonce.

USA CITIZEN - Beth

Thank you for your perspective Melanie!

I first learned of your column from your very poignient paragraph (below) that is circulating throughout the US. The Media sold Obama to America. The US Media didn't investigate him at all, or ask him any tough questions - they slammed Palin who is sharp + impressive. The entire NEWS industry (aside from FOXNEWS?) needs to be put under an oath for UNBIASED NEWS. Does this problem occur in the UK? It disgusts me + 56,079,500 Americans (vs. the 63,423,384 that voted for Obama).

McCain didn't get a fair shake. McCain + Palin were the ones who campaigned with honesty, integrity, they were straight-forward and ready to put-forth change. They only had ~20% of the funding that Obama had.

- 'Obama Accepting Untraceable Donations' (Washington Post 10/29) from non-citizens, untraceable credit cards, where McCain's donation system would not allow such donations that could not be proved. Obama's campaign was filled with lies + called all the McCain truths about him "Smears".
- Acorn- a public tax-paid business that OPENLY endorsed Obama.
- Obama's Aunt Zeituni is living illegally (since 2004) 'on the dole' in Boston Public Housing.... "refusing to leave the U.S. for her Kenyan homeland when a judge rejected her request for asylum four years ago, the Associated Press is reporting.""
- Many questions of Obama's heritage, nationality + religion.

THE ONE GOOD THING ABOUT AN OBAMA PRESIDENCY:: The African American people will finally believe that Americans (white, hispanic, other) are not prejudice, and that they all have a chance to succeed- don't blame race for your problems - they are in control of their destiny, let's hope they take advantage of that.

Apologies for rambling...

Thanks for keeping it real Melanie.
-Beth

--------------------------------

Allan@Aberdeen- THX - VERY GOOD points re: OBAMA hiding his history! If a person cannot be truthful about themselves, what else do they have? I think what he is hiding may be dual citizenship (Indonesian) and/or religion (Muslim).

THOSE BRITS DO HAVE A WAY WITH WORDS!
"You have to pinch yourself - a Marxist radical who all his life has been mentored by, sat at the feet of, worshiped with, befriended, endorsed the philosophy of, funded and been in turn funded, politically promoted and supported by a nexus comprising of black power anti-white racists, Jew-haters, revolutionary Marxists, unrepentant former terrorists and Chicago mobsters, is on the verge of becoming President of the United States. And apparently it's considered impolite to say so."
- Melanie Philips, The Spectator ( UK) 10/14/08

Lynn Brooks

The Bible tells the story of ancient Israel who told God thru the judge Samuel: "We want a king! We don't want a judge and we don't want God to be over us. We want a king like all the nations around us."

God warned them, "A king will tax you, take your property, make you work in his fields and send you to war. Having a king will destroy you."

They insisted and "God gave them a king"...who taxed them, took their property, put them to work for him and sent them to war. Having a king eventually destroyed the nation.

America wanted a king...

Dave

Kathie

"our country is now filled with drug controlled, lazy people who want to be taken care of and bailed out of problems."

What, like bankers?

Nevergive up

Melanie...I could weep for my country today.

You are so right in most of your observations. I differ a bit with you about McCain. I didn't agree with him on everything but he has spent his life serving this country and serving it well. He has decency, honesty and integrity and wants the best for our country. You saw that in his concession speech last night. Will this country produce men like him again? I don't know, but I fear not.

An American

Republican American,
Please don't quote McCain's concession speech to me. He was a weak candidate who was afraid to say how dishonerable,dishonest,cowardly and ineffectual his fellow Senators and Congressmen have been for decades... McCain was more concerned about what his fellow Senators thought of him than his concern for the future of our country. McCain is 'old' Washington and old Washington must go.... if we are to save our country from a socialist future. And may I say you may be a Republican but you are not a Conservative and neither was McCain...that's why he lost. He didn't have a strong conservative message or platform to stand on.
I will not come together with and support the political and press socialist thugs who spent 7 years vilifying President Bush while trying to destroy our great country...Shame on you...why don't act like a real man instead of a complete wuss!

Joseph Czarniowski

I wrote this Open letter to Family and friends early this morning.

Shalom Mishpachah, extended Family,

Now we glean from what has been the most turbulent election process that I can remember.

There is one thing that stands out in this fiasco, one man took the public by storm, in every way possible, aside from penitentiary style incarceration.

But, in the long run we will find out just how much we have been incarcerated in our own little world of what we were calling freedom, as we determine from coming events that we were never a free nation. Held up to its own longings for self surrender, we have given over to hype, solace, and vagabond initiatives that will choke off the blood flow to our lifeless brains, and that, the American public.

So, my friends, this is the final blow that sets up the One World Government Globally. Make no mistake of it, we are in for a turbulent ride down a waterfall, and at the bottom is death by drowning in the underflow and hydraulic suction seen only a few times throughout HisStory.

We got the President we deserve! As a people, we have given over to forces we cannot even imagine, the control of our very lives. In the aftermath of coming events there will be a rainbow promised in Scripture, but mark me well, "Few will live through current events to see it." I say 'current events,' because it will relent as one big tumultuous corridor of corralled and pent up disarray, and we will be again fooled daily by smooth words without content as we have these past few years, only to give everything over to forces not in our best interest as either a Nation, or a People.

Tomorrow will tell the tale of this hungering for true freedom we thought we have fought for, for decades. Now we are going to listen, as we see less hope as time marches toward the biggest train wreck this Planet has ever seen. Our hopes, will be seen as dashed away one by one over the next few years. Both mankind's ruthlessness for power, and Biblically Prophetic occurrence will be our food as we slip down the slope to disarray in both our lives and in our families. The betrayal spoken of in Scripture is here, but will be seen vividly shortly and there is nothing we can do to stop it. Time has come to draw in your personal forces and proceed with self made plans to combat the onslaught of mans inhumanity to man, as it invades our lives. Time has taken its toll on unsuspecting followers of men, instead of following our Creator and His warnings of things that will come are here for the tasting, and the food we have from now on will be difficult to swallow, but swallow we must, for the end of what we know and have known as life on this planet is going to reveal itself like the snarling teeth of a wild boar which this country has dined on delicately for so long in the face of its own demise.

So my friends and family, take a good look around in these coming months, for you will never see these times again. What has passed, has passed blindly, and very soon we will long for what we were thinking we had. Pure foolishness has been our food both politically and spiritually, as even our so called teachers in Churchianity have helped lead the masses into discontent unknowingly, and from these mussings we will be brought to the ground, returned from where we came.

Regards
Joseph

rob

Suck it up Twinky Winky? I think the point was that America as defined by its historic values may, very soon, no longer exist, and that this will be a consequence of media hype and a subversive , destructive left wing campaign. Very soon we could all be 'sucking it up' and missing the America that the (progressive ??????) left has selfishly attempted to destroy for decades. Look at Obamha's past, his racist outlook and central part in Americas current economic problems. Ask yourself what sort of country contain's voters that vote for a president based on colour, 97% of blacks voted for Obamha, many because Obamha is (50% anyway) black, and then heralds it as progress. Maybe this is something that you twinky winky should'nt be entirely comfortable with.

USA CITIZEN - Beth

Thank you for your perspective Melanie-

The MEDIA SOLD OBAMA TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. Plain + Simple.
McCain + Palin ran an honest, truthful, straight-forward campaign, it's amazing they did so well, considering what they were up against.

-Palin is smart + thought-provoking. The Media pounced on her, unfair.
- The US Media did not thoroughly investigate Obama or ask him tough questions. Obama had a pass on relationships with his angry friends.
-Obama had big $$ received illegally for flashy graphics, a big staff of bloggers who disputed 'Obama Smears' (which were, in fact, truths).
- Obama had twice as much money than McCain, due to Obama's illegal funding... FEDS are investigating now. "Obama Accepting Untraceable Donations," Washington Post.
- Obama's Aunt is living on the dole as an illegally in Boston
"Barack Obama's Aunt [Zeituni Onyango] revealed this week to be dwelling in a Boston slum, is living in the United States illegally, refusing to leave the U.S. for her Kenyan homeland when a judge rejected her request for asylum four years ago, the Associated Press is reporting."
-Obama had a pass on his religion, what is it really? Muslim? Christian? his nationality? Arab?, his citizenship? Indonesian/American?

AN American: I'm with you, maybe we shouldn't be blogging, they might come to our house....

USA CITIZEN - Beth

oh yeah,
Does the UK press act in a biased manner? Do they take an 'oath of truth' or anything when they report on the ""NEWS""?
Thank you from across the pond.

Steve Klein

This is a good piece overall. Only Melanie Phillips still does not get it. We are in this situation largely because of Bush's immoral policies. Phillips insists Bush did not begin appeasing our enemies until he was into his second term of office.
Phillips: "But in the second term, Bush stopped being Bush. His foreign policy lurched from paralysis to appeasement...."
Stopped being Bush? Need we remind Ms. Phillps?
ARIEL SHARON, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: : “I call on the Western democracies and primarily the leader of the free world, the United States: Do not repeat the dreadful mistake of 1938 when enlightened European democracies decided to sacrifice Czechoslovakia for a convenient temporary solution. Do not try to appease the Arabs on our expense. This is unacceptable to us. Israel will not be Czechoslovakia. Israel will fight terrorism.”

CNN's JOHN KING: What angered Washington most was Sharon's comparison to Europe ceding parts of Czechoslovakia to Hitler, suggesting that in its aggressive effort to court Arab nations for the coalition against terrorism, the United States was turning its back on Israel's security.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: The president believes that these remarks are unacceptable. Israel can have no better or stronger friend than the United States, and better friend than President Bush.

KING: Secretary of State Colin called Sharon once to voice the president's displeasure, then again later, after the prime minister agreed to issue a conciliatory statement.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0110/06/smn.06.html

CNN SATURDAY MORNING NEWS
Israel and the U.S. Involved in a Public Spat
Aired October 6, 2001 - 09:21 ET

Jill

Verity
November 5th, 2008 6:37pm

Thanks, Verity.

Larry Shapiro

What a neagative and unwarrented criticism of Barack Obama by Melanie Phillips. Demonizing him because of the actions and philosophies of his associates without any evidence whatsoever that he shares these attitudes denies him the simple justice inherent in being considered innocent until proven guilty.

Jill

Me
November 5th, 2008 10:36pm
Verity, whom every is Palin's running mate they must have money and lots of it. Too bad Schwarzenegger was not born in America. The Terminator would surely keep the riff raff out of our country ;)
--------------------------
There's a handful of younger Conservative leaders, like LA's governor. I read today that the Republican Party must change the way they choose delegates and get rid of any centrists--the kind that choose McCain and ignore conservatives. They should choose some of us at this thread.

Fred

You are right Melanie. 'They must now look elsewhere'. But where? There are now very few options anywhere. Whereas during the 1930s, when the Germans launched an horrendous assault on civilisation and the middle classes everywhere, there was still a free USA, not to mention the British Empire (given huge support at the time by the Australians, who had a magnificent all-volunteer army that was critical in defeating the Germans in North Africa, not to mention earlier on the Western Front). But now there is no-one and certainly no hope should be put on the weak and dispirited Europeans.

Tregonsee

Melanie,

We here in the colonies had a true perfect storm. I agree, as a Republican, that we let our principles slip. However, we were also guilty of the same sort of blindness to what was happening on the Left that the Clinton administration was toward terrorism. The signs were there, and a few noticed them. By any standard, Barack Obama is the most unqualified major party candidate in living memory, nurtured by those who do not wish the country well, and who would and did go beyond the law to insure his election. When he swears to "protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic," he will by his own words be lying. And I use that word in the true meaning, not the way it is so casually misused. Even now it is hard to believe that polics left over from the 1960s could suddenly be the principles of an administration in 2009.

Treg

Sharon T

I just caught the full victory speech. Tears and gibberish. The ‘Princess Obama‘ tag fits him perfectly.

“Respond to Pearl Habor. Yes, we can. Put a man on the moon. Yes, we can. Tie my hollow rhetoric into all these historic events to make it look as though I’m actually saying something? Yes, you can. Get away with it? Yes, you can.”

It works, though.

Kathie points out:

“our country is now filled with drug controlled, lazy people who want to be taken care of and bailed out of problems. They don\'t want to work but the rest of us work hard.”

Our ‘fellow traveller’ says: “Maybe part of his vision for the US is that in the future there will be fewer of these people, which would be good for all of us. It certainly is in the substance of his policies.”

The substance of his policies, fellow traveller, is to hand out tax credits to people who don’t work ie, who don’t pay tax.

His policy is to do exactly what New Labour does: let the middle classes break their backs twice over - once to pay for everything for themselves and then a second time to pay for all the spongers and layabouts.

Apropos Daniel Finkelstein, I also didn’t get his other criticisms of the Republicans’ messiah ads. He didn’t like them. But the polls showed they worked.

I will say, though, that the Republicans backfired on their two picks. The Republicans made a very good calculation on the political character of their two running mates. The maverick element was strategically right - but only if these two could perform in the arena. They didn’t.

Neither could do A-grade hand-to-hand combat either in interviews or the debates.

Sarah Palin has been very spitefully treated when compared with the Ayers, Wright and other Obama skeletons but you cannot afford to blow interviews with C grade performances - especially with such a hostile media.

I agree with The Spectator’s Americano blog on which it noted that McCain had to show - not tell - in his debates. He did not.

In their defence, McCain and Palin may not have been so bad had the election been about national security, which is what I think was planned on.

No matter how bad the economy, this presidency will, given the times we live in, be judged on national security. The terrorists and their taqqya accomplices aren’t going anywhere. That will show up Obama’s failings, but the sad thing for the rest of us is that time is running out and having him in the White House will waste precious time.

In relation to Britain, the Conservatives can console themselves with the fact that compared with McCain, Call Me Dave can defend and attack in interviews and debates to the required standard.

The frustration I had watching the presidential debates was that someone such as Rudy Giuliani really would have drawn out Obama’s weaknesses in a much clearer way than McCain ever got close to. Leadership above all is about communicating. The Republicans need a performer as effective as CMD.

One final thought, the Republicans must - above all else - reacquire a reputation for competence - that was what destroyed the Conservative Party.

I speak to many Americans who are aware that they face cultural annihilation at the hands of radical Islam but they need to get through the day, too. They want to know they have jobs and food on the table.

Funny, too, how Obama directed his clinging to guns and religion comment not at the Islamists in the Middle East, but at his fellow Americans. As if the jihadists there sit there cross legged in the desert reading Susan Sontag and Richard Dawkins in some post-Allah world. Another double standard observed by the mainstream media.

To return to the point, people cannot live without job security and financial security and many Republicans just seem to want to get that message into their party’s dumb head and get the snouts out of the trough.

Mehran

This is Oprah Winfrey's reaction to the victory of the One:

'It feels like hope won. It feels like it's not just victory for Barack Obama. It feels like America did the right thing. It feels like there's a shift in consciousness. It feels like something really big and bold has happened here, like nothing ever in our lifetimes did we expect this to happen. It feels like anything is now possible.'

As you see every sentence starts with 'it feels like'.

This election result has been the culmination of years of Oprah-fication of America, where critical thinking cool-headedness and reason - never the forte of the 'arty' types - have been actively discouraged by the (extremely well-paid) liberal media personalities, such as Miss Winfrey, in favour of touchy-feely emotional incontinence. (Something that is sadly also happening in Britain).

The election of the Messiah, far from being the realisation of the American Dream (as it's claimed)is actually the product of a self-pitying and declining culture: a nation no longer confident about its abilities to change the change the world for the better. It is truly heart-breaking to see a once vibrant and confident power being reduced to this.

sean birnie

"Ha ha ha aha ha haha hahaha haha hah hahaha hahhhha hahahaha haaha hahah ahaha haha hah ha aha ha ah aha ha ha ha hah hah hah ha aha ha he ho hoh

tee hee heeeh hahahahaha haha ha hah hahaha hahaha hahaha hahhaha hahahaha haaha haha haha haha haha hahaha ahahahhhaha haha

Tee hee!" ...ad infinitum.

Thanks Si, N for the most eloquent moonbat comment of the night and one that I can actually agree with. You wanted him, well you got him... tee hee hee ha ha ha etc.

Pure schadenfreude of course. I'm so looking forward to when reality, as described by Melanie, actually sets in. After all, you do love poverty, chaos and war, don't you?

Or don't you?

Israel

Me:

"Verity, whom every is Palin's running mate they must have money and lots of it. Too bad Schwarzenegger was not born in America. The Terminator would surely keep the riff raff out of our country ;)"

Ermmmm..............

I suppose it would be silly of me to point out that a fictional character played by the Austrian ex-strong man wouldn't really be an aid in keeping the riff-raff out of the country expecially as you're someone whose party had Foghorn Leghorn impersonator Fred Thompson as a serious candidate for president.

Or would that be rude?

Vicki

Melanie, thanks so much for your articles. They are thought provoking and articulate a lot of what I would like to express. I look forward to them and pass them on to others.

It is a sad day for human life. Everyone wanted change so bad they would have voted for the devil (they did, didn't they?). Voters wanted change, Hitler promised change. Voters wanted prosperity, Hitler promised that. They didn't care about life, Hitler didn't either.

Sad and mourning here in Arizona!

kiernter

We've heard for eight years how horrible the United States is. Now all the libs have finally gained release-- they love America again. But for how long?

d1carter

God Save the USA...

Jill

Your man and your ideals were beaten fair and square. Obama deserves credit for his victory and the way he achieved this. Comment should wait until he actually takes office.

Be like America and embrace change. Clearly you do not understand the country or it's culture. The States is fed up with the old order and wants to be renewed. That is precisely what will happen.

Be positive for once!
--------------------------

You sound like an Obama supporter when you tell people when they can talk. At least 56 out of 118 million Americas are talking and saying things Obama might not like.

As for waiting until he's in office? You want McCain supporters to show the same respect and loyalty to Obama that Democrats showed Bush? Here, you have an advantage because Obama's opposition is pro-American. We will not ridicule the office of presidency around the world, lie about our young fighting men and women, vote to cut off funding to them, or instigate world wide economic catastrophes--all for political gain.

You did not see Republicans on the streets smashing shop windows and stealing TVs. We did not threaten to “move to Canada” if O won. You did not see Republicans refusing to accept the outcome of the election--as Obama was prepared to do. You can count on us to do the right thing. You can also count on us to disagree loudly when we disagree. We operate through the process and play by the rules and everybody knows it. That’s been one of our “weaknesses.” Another weakness has been moderates in the Republican Party. They are gone.

Liberal Republicanism lost yesterday, as represented by the bi-partisan reach-across-the-aisle and get- your-arm-broken McCain.

The Democratic constituents who voted for Obama need to learn to take criticism—even from overseas!, and learn how to lead.

I demand of the next president to continue the Bush Doctrine defined as a perfect record of ZERO American civilians murdered by terrorists since 9/11.

[ABC Primer for Ovoters: Between 1979 and 9/11 there were 10,000 American civilians killed in the same war on terror.]

One last thing, several studies came out this year debunking the grumpy conservative myth. It turns out that conservatives are naturally cheerful. They have a well-developed sense of humor. They beat the liberals on both scores. Add principles and a tendency to crunch data in casual conversation. What's not to love ;)

Dixon

Actually, all this hoopla seems strangely familiar...its like that night a neighbour where I used to live was running about ecstatically proclaiming to the world the landslide victory of New Labour!

His loud demonstrations of joy seemed to be a "get back" at everyone he didnt like ( basically anyone who wasnt a venal lefty dirt-bag like himself ) ...on the basis that said people were all "them" and presupposed to be Tory. Well, he had his "one in the eye" ( as he saw it ) on the "us" ( as he deemed it )...I wonder what that dimmock feels about New Labour today?

The same is going to happen with Obammie. He will either be dissapointingly sensible to the Looney Left who voted for him, or else he'll be as Loony Left as the sensible voters who switched to him refused to believe. One way or the other, he's destined to be detested by one half of his supporters!

Bill M

This is funny and perhaps quite true for many:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/89632

Jill

Good post Kathie in Arizona. :) thanks for sharing.

Dee Villa

I am from the USA and proud to be an American. What has happened yesterday is trully a travesty to our freedom. I couldn't agree with you more. As a matter of fact you didn't go far enough. You should have brought out about Obama's marxist connections that he's surrounded himself with for the last 20 years. And why has he had sealed all of his college records ??

Dee Villa

To Allen@Aberdeen. You are so correct. What is going to happen to the country that we love so much ? I knew of some things that were kept hidden but you have surely opened my eyes even wider. Thanks

Verity

Dave - This is the best yet: " Obama, on the other hand, is an educated African American who overcame many obstacles to get where he is at this time."

He is? He did?

Oh? What "obstacles"? Like favouritism? "Reverse discrimination"? "Affirmative action"? He was perfect. Handsome, well-built ... biddable ...

I have always sensed something weak, insecure and biddable about this individual

He's an "African American?"

As defined as a descendent of people who were captured by their own people and sold to Arab slavers and transported across the Atlantic in holds of ships, in chains, to be auctioned off in the United States?

Until the British Navy shut down the lines, this is what was happening.

Obama's family was part of this?

No.

His father came willingly, determinedly to the US of his own free will, obviously expecting to benefit from his colour.

He was an opportunist. Nothing wrong with that, but let's not pretend he was taken to the United States in chains in the hold of a ship. By the time Obama's daddy hopped a ship or a plane the world had changed.

Obama had a very disturbed childhood, to say the least and he seems to have no history between when his mother carted him back to Hawaii after "marrying" and presumably divorcing his stepfather, and suddenly turning up at Harvard on a "reverse discrimation" programme.

This man reeks of privilege. As does his wife, on two "scholarships" to study, well, nothing it seems ... but aggression.

Obama's a weak man on a gravy train. He's not in control.

Sue

Well said Melanie!

Fellow Traveler...
" Maybe part of his vision for the US is that in the future there will be fewer of these people, which would be good for all of us. It certainly is in the substance of his policies (tax breaks for companies creating jobs in the US) and his rhetoric last night."

There is absolutly NOTHING in Obama's plans for redistributing the wealth in America, that will "create jobs". These sort of tax and spend policies have been tried by Democrats and liberal Republicans before...it always means fewer jobs, more inflation, and ultimately more folks on Government handouts.

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.

You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.

You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.

You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.

You cannot build character and courage by taking away men's initiative and independence.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves." -- Abraham Lincoln

Mr. Sutoro has managed to purchase the Obama presidency, in spite of multiple nefarious associations in his personal life, which point to a very worrisome militant, leftist ideology. By hook or crook, with the generous help of a shamelessly biased press, and millions of dollars of support provided by powerful liberals, Barry made it in.

Informed Americans shudder at the socialist future that awaits this once strong democracy. As Barry "levels" the field, and rewrites our country's constitution to fit his leftist agenda, I predict a massive wave of 'buyer's remorse'. When the consequences of his tax and spend policies begin to ripple across this land, the reality will set in.

Socialism doesn't generate jobs, and businesses are already laying workers off in anticipation of the financial effects of an Obama presidency. So hold on to your hats ladies and gentlemen, it's gonna be a rough ride.

Antimedia

Look elsewhere? To where? There IS no elsewhere.

Antimedia

"A final point: my best friend at college was once a member of the militant tendency - does this make me a communist? (In fact, I am a member of the Conservative Party.) You make far too much of Obama's past associations and need to lighten up a bit. It's not going to be the disaster you think - promise!"

Really? His father was a communist. His adopted father was a communist. His mentor was a communist. He writes in Dreams of My Father that he "sought out Marxist professors". He worked hand in hand with a communist for 20 years on projects to pervert education to socialist propaganda mills.

The only consistent thread of his entire life has been Marxism. I doubt that he will abandon it now, now that he has grasped the brass ring.

Vladimir Weissman - Copenhagen

Thanks, Ms. Philips!
But I hope you are wrong. The millions that e.g. defeated the "Illegal Immigrant Bill" will not give up.
Remember Carter? That's what it looks like. The Cons will come back. They have emphatically learned a lesson. Already in 2010, they can form a new Congress. And Obama might still choose good cabinet ministers and key advisors.
So: cheer up. And keep us informed.
Thanks again and G-d Bless!

Veronica Redmond

I worked my buns off for McCain/Palin this year - contributed lots of money,made daily calls on the phonebank, walked the neighborhoods and carried those damn signs in the rallys. I was shocked by the margin BHO won. However, I, for one, will support him as my
President and pray daily that he makes good and wise decisions for our country. I will support him until he does something that doesn't deserve support. It's a great time for the conservatives to regroup and come back strong and organized in two years. After all, isn't that what a democracy is all about?

Roy

Well said Melanie, your opinion I would value more than all the Greek Philosophers the whole British establishment and all these valued comments put together. One would like to think you are wrong but knowing British standards have unredeemably sunk never to be seen again, that surely seems the way it’s going. Having first hand knowledge of some Commonwealth countries who are gathering momentum to follow suit as if being pulled by a piped piper playing a mixed melody but always intoxicating enough to blind and disable before dropping us into the pit of pacifism and impotence.

Slack Alice

Can I just add that he is far from far left???
I dont understand what the fuss is about?
He will no doubt turn out to be just like all the other before him.
A true far left leader will not happen in our life time. Relax.

Slack Alice

Can I also add that America is was corrupt from the on set. I see people commenting about the "One World Government".
I suggest you do your research as this has been on the cards since America gained independants. Federal Reserve anyone???

david skinner

Unless folks recognise the world of spiritual forces, they will be blind to what Obama stands for. If people not only cannot see an iceberg coming up but wilfully and purposefully refuse to see it , no amount of pleading and discussion will penetrate the concrete casing, a billion miles thick that surrounds such of a mind . Christians have stood in amazement that a whole nation, nay the whole world has been seduced and deluded by this man. Why can they not see and understand the patently obvious? Only the spirit of Jesus Christ can penetrate such darkness. Though Christians are the largest faith group in the world, nominally at least, they are still in the minority. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Worldwide_percentage_of_Adherents_by_Religion.png

John Birch

Conservative Cabbie: Fox News is now offering details on McCain's Palin problem. Apparently, she didn't know that Africa is a continent, couldn't name the countries in NAFTA, was difficult to work with, and refused preparation help for the interview with Katie Couric. When she flopped in that interview, she then blamed staff and was apparently difficult to work with in general. In other words, don't count on seeing her as the Republican candidate in four years because undoubtedly there is more of this to come out yet.

mixed metaphors on speed

Joseph Czarniowski

You wrote that open letter to family and friends.

Did any of them understand a word of it?

Dave

Verity: Palin for 2012? Really. I suspect even you might change your "mind" as more information comes out about her.
Latest news, she didn't know the countries in NAFTA and thought Africa was a country rather than a continent.
Source? Fox News. Fair and Balanced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZHTJsR4Bc&e

phil

Joseph Czarniowski- how sad to read your words -we may well be entering a brave new world where all people will have a fair shot at what they aspire too -please do not condemn us all to your depression without giving it a try -I remember Kennedy and he broke new boundaries didn't he ?

Norberto Collado Abreu

Sarah Palin, a woman who according to FOX NEWS, doesnt know whether Africa is a country or a continent, and thinks that South Africa is a part of a country...I really hope this moron runs for office in 2012, because that will guaranteed victory for Obama

Tancred

America has a long history of snake oil salesmen.

They just keep falling for the same old lines.

Personaly I judge a person by the company theu keep.

Obama doesn't come out well from such scrutiny.

Perhaps they need 4 or 8 years of such rule to realise that just what am unfettered Liberal Left will reak upon their nation.

Thankfully however, unlike the British, Americans can still bear arms.

I fear they will need them as the socialist tide advances across their land.

The Liquidator

'but as the result of a culture war in which western civilisation is losing out to a far-left agenda which has become mainstream, teaching American children to despise the founding values of their country and hijacking discourse by the minority power-grab of victim-culture.'

You have got to be kidding me.

David

One of the amusing things to note is that Arnie is more left wing than McCain, being more like a Guliani Republican.

Mary from Illinois, USA

TO ALL CONSERVATIVES IN USA: I JUST PURCHASED MY JINDAL 2012 BUMPER STICKERS! NOW THIS IS HOPE!!!

Leon

Howard, ( "You do not understand...it's [sic] culture", clearly has Obamaesque pretensions to be an agent of change. Howard wants to change English grammar/spelling.

David

Well said, Veronica. You are a credit to your party.

Mondragon

OOOaahhh (to the tune of 'The Laughing Policeman)
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Ohh Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha
Ohh Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha HA HA HA

So decisive the reps couldn't steal it. The world is the winner.

Hayward Maberley

Vicki in Arizona,
Godwin's Law, first formulated in 1990 by Mike Godwin, states;
"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Dodds Corollary to this states;
"When debating a particular subject, if a comparison or implied connection is drawn between the opponent's argument and Hitler and the Nazi Party, the maker of that statement is automatically discredited and the debate is automatically lost by the person or group who referenced the connection to Hitler or the Nazis."
Congratulations & commiserations

The TriGuy

Melanie has many good points. But Twinkie (by the way, I love your pastries!) is right: it is a democracy and the people have spoken. That's what so wonderful about this country. But I hope that Veronica's ideals (which are similar to those of my family) will be the path we follow. Everyone deserves the opportunity to succeed.
As to McCain, he was not my choice in the beginning. He was weak, lacked direction and was too much of an appeaser to suit my taste. History is rife with examples of what that has gotten in the face of strength of will and purpose. As to his campaign, he appeared to be more concerned with keeping friends in the Senate--when he returned--than in winning the election.
All that being said, I am so very glad this whole thing is over. Can we get on with life now?

Hayward Maberley

Melanie et al.,
Well the audience was not convinced. McNasty and The Diva failed to impress with their performance,.
Not quite Götterdämmerung more like I Pagliacci, it all ended in tears.
And now the reviews are coming in, with even the faithful on Fox panning The Diva.
Ther is plenty of room and the time for improvement before 2012. With a lot of coaching and remedial classes in current affairs,geography and politics The Diva might give a better performance in 2012.

An American

Norberto and his fellow liberals are intent on destroying Sarah Palin. The reason is that there is a future for this intelligent, energetic, photogenic Conservative woman. First, I don't believe what McCain's so-called staff said about Palin. Second, McCain has always been a jealous, petty sort and I think he and his staff resent that Palin came off better, was more popular and had a larger following than McCain. I very much appreciate Palin's hard work and contribution to this campaign. She is a moral person who walks the walk and doesn't destroy innocent sweet babies because they are less than perfect. She has my respect.

derek

Funny how Fox News is reporting the same stories that the liberal-biased MSM was reporting before the election was over.

Wonder why that might be????? Maybe the MSM was reporting the real stories the whole time and Fox News was reporting the conservative-biased news during the election.

all you all that are blaming this on the MSM need to acknowledge reality.

Dixon

Slack Alice
November 6th, 2008 7:52am:
" Can I also add that America is was corrupt from the on set. I see people commenting about the "One World Government".
I suggest you do your research as this has been on the cards since America gained independants. Federal Reserve anyone???"

Can anyone actually understand what "Slack Alice" is trying to say?

All I can fathom is that he/she connnot distinguish between similar sounding but verydifferent words, such as "independence" and "independants".

Dixon

...in fact, "independants" is not a word that actually exists at all!

hennesli

Neoconservatism died yesterday and the world rejoices. Ive been thoroughly entertained all day reading the hysterical ramblings of those like melanie and the drones at LGF in response to the Obama win.

Norberto Collado Abreu

"An American", please believe me when I tell you I dont want to destroy this woman, I want her to run in 2012, because that will all but guarantee Obama 8 years in power. And if you dont believe the rumours from McCaines aides, lets just examine what he have heard from her mouth: When asked what newspapers or magazines she read...
Sarah Palin: I've read most of them, again with a great appreciation for the press, for the media.
KC: But, like, what ones specifically? I'm curious.
SP: All of 'em, any of 'em that have been in front of me over all these years.
KC: Can you name a few?
SP: I have a vast variety of sources where we get our news too

She had absolutely no idea what the Bush Doctrine was, she embarassed herself over the whole "Alaska is near Russia, therefore I am qualified on foreign policy" fiasco, and so on.

The woman is moron, an utter imbecile, but as I said before, she has my full support as the Republican candidate for 2012

Verity

Jill writes: "Verity, whom every is Palin's running mate they must have money and lots of it."

That's why we have what is known as "fundraising". If I'm not mistaken, thug and low-life Barrack Obama raised $800m for his campaign.

Tregonsee writes: "Even now it is hard to believe that polics left over from the 1960s could suddenly be the principles of an administration in 2009".

Yes. Put so bluntly, it is chilling.

Dave 8:34, who whimpers that Palin did not know that Africa is a continent - trust me, if ignorance of geography is a yardstick, do you believe Tony Blair would ever have made it into No 10? He knows where Africa and the Middle East are now, but had you asked him to point out Africa, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Brazil on an UNMARKED atlas before he warmed his seat on the gravy train, you would have had an equal fit of the giggles.

Guliani would have been a better candidate for fighting the Obama abomination because he's a meaner fighter, which is what it would have taken.

Wetherby Pond

"She is a moral person who walks the walk"

Yes, but she doesn't talk the talk, does she? Unless it's been carefully pre-scripted and rehearsed to within an inch of its life, otherwise it comes out as incoherent gibberish - as we've all seen on too many occasions to list.

She never did give that promised press conference, did she? Or indeed a single interview that could in any way be described as tough, come to that. Is this really someone you want leading your country?

David Lindsay

Conservative Cabbie, Obama took ninety-seven per cent of the black vote, and no one is more hostile to illegal immigration, no one is more sceptical even about a great deal of legal immigration, no one is more committed to America as an English-speaking country, and nop one is more conservative morally (although plenty of other people are equally so), than the blacks and their churches.

The blacks and their churches are among those whom Obama owes in a very big way.

By contrast, McCain wanted to give an amnesty to illegal immigrants. But then, any "free"-marketeer must by definition be in favour of unrestricted migration.

Ben-Tsiyon (ha rishon)

Dixon missed out his middle name ! His full name is Christopher Creep Hitchens.

King Prawn

Melanie,

I am shocked at the way that you are still berating Tony Blair.

He is the only British politician who can see the Islamic threat that we have. This is a man who risked all to rightly support the Iraq War and eventually lost his job because of his support for Israel during its 2006 war with Hizbollah.

I am afraid he brought the Labour Party as far as it could be brought to responsible government. You could see where he wanted to go on important issues like the education, NHS and welfare reform.

To compare him to Obama is a joke. Obama is a person who will negotiate away the West's freedoms with any movement from our enemies.

Everyone thinks that Afghanistan is the real front in the War On Terror. It wasn't, Iraq was.

Everyone says the Iraq War was about oil. I don't think so. The war was about drawing the jihadists into a war on American terms many miles away from Western land. And let's be honest, if that is the case then its been so successful that the Iraqi Sunni population is now totally rejecting Al Qaeda.

It may be impossible to believe now, but Blair and Bush will probably be seen as great leaders in a few years time.

Frank P

Sue (4.45am)

An excellent post and one worthy of the America I know and love. It will be a rough ride, as you point out, the repercussions will be felt over here, but the mooncalves that have swallowed the stale socialist hackneyed agitprop, and regurgitate it on this blog, are blind to anything that shines light on the deceit and false promises of their Utopian nonsense.

Jealousy drives them; the undeserving ugly, weak and lazy, demanding that the able and ingenious not only share the rewards of their ability and ingenuity but submit also to the dictates of a state run by the parasites of their own persuasion. History shows us that tolerance and generosity is always perceived as weakness and exploited by such creatures. Levelling down is their subliminal mantra. Your country will retain its innate strength, despite the current upsurge of 'liberal' (Ingsoc for Marxist) politics. This sham will be exposed for what it is quite soon as the OBambi shill becomes so much veal in the abattoir of the Washington political meat factory.

In the meantime the world will have to adjust a little on its axis as it realigns, before it resumes turning in the same old way. Never lose sight of the fact that although the European mainstream media portrays public opinion over here as predominately anti-American, Melanie Phillips represents a much larger body of opinion that the MSM would admit - and I'm sure you know why.

The transatlantic alliance must be maintained at any cost in the dangerous times ahead; despite the damage reeked on the markets by the destructive subversive leftist elements on the one hand and the opportunistic exploitation of the 'unacceptable face of capitalism' on the other. It is the free market that will prevail and find its own equilibrium quickly despite the setbacks that the Obama 'experiment' will bring in the short term.

From this side of the Pond the demographics are worrying; your assimilative structures are more adaptive to migration than ours (though I understand that your current levels are testing). You insist on the American element of citizenship being the over-riding factor in your acceptance of their entry. Here we cede the Britishness and subvert our own culture in favour of theirs: virtual Dhimmitude. Thus we aboriginals look west for whatever is left of our culture to survive and south to our Australasian cousins. The UK is virtually a goner. Blair was the Trojan horse that was allowed through our gates. Beware Obama! I’m confident America will not be the push-over that the UK was in the face of the Gramscian march, despite this ominous set back. I suggest you marshal the bailiffs for as early an ejection of the incoming tenants as you can achieve, even before they take up occupancy, as I’m sure the processes will take some time. We’re into 11 years of squatters in No. 10 here and still not sure of an eviction even using 2010 as a provisional target date. And the faeces on the walls there may be traceable for years to come even if we succeed.

Good luck in your endeavours. Melanie doesn’t get involved in the fray of the commentariat here and who can blame her? But speaking personally I’m grateful that you have and others from the US have expressed their support for her on this blog. I hope it gives her the strength to keep battling, albeit against a background of abuse from the usual inane suspects.

Verity

Wetherby Pond writes: "She never did give that promised press conference, did she?"

Who stopped her, I wonder? Who ruled it out? Senator McCain?

Jill

Rush said Obama will probably be like Clinton in this way: Clinton never stopped campaigning all through office. Obama will do the same. He already started campaigning for his second term.

As for his legacy, Elites are working on it. There will be a unity among the elites to blame Republicans for every failure of the Dems in the White House and Congress (nothing new). However, part of the reason will be to mitigate widespread disappointment in O's job performance. It would crush so many people if O makes a mockery of Blacks; but we know the election already has. There was a concerted effort to make sure O wins because they feared he did not merit winning.

It's the kind of discrimination that results from political correctness, as well as collective guilt within the Democratic Party, and those who do it don't recognize it. They will continue promoting him during his term. There will be a concerted effort to make sure his popularity remains high. He won't be accountable for his actions in office. We can look forward to at least four years of being called racists and divisive if we criticize the president's job performance, or if we disagree with the Democratic Party. History will rewrite his presidency to purge any embarrassments; and those mistakes that cannot be purged will be pinned on Republicans.

If you doubt me, which of the two parties represented slavers and segregationists?

a) Republican
b) Democratic

Which of the two parties fought against Jim Crow laws and the KKK at the end of the Civil War until 1964 Civil Rights Act?

a) Democratic
b) Republican

Of which two parties did O-supporters have to fear "a Bradley effect"?

a) Republican
b) Democratic (also called "yellow dog Democrats" for their undying southern-inspired loyalty to their great-grandfather's party.)

(answer for all is b.)

You will look long and hard to find a historian who will tell you that the KKK was a terrorist arm of the Democratic Party. Any historian who does suffers public flaying. The Democrat's genuine history has been sanitized, and they hijacked the Republican’s record on civil rights. Republicans did not stop them. Republicans stand up for everybody else except for themselves it seems.

Black Republicans, however, have been working hard to set the record straight. Many black defenders of the Republican Party had fought for civil rights as Republicans in the 1950s and 60s. They did not defect to the Democrats in exchange for socialist promises. They rightly discerned that social programs increase social problems. They also knew from experience that blacks had already achieved middle class status in the 1950s despite Jim Crow. (Capitalism in a free market overcame racism.) For them, it was not materialism they were fighting for, but national principles of our founding. The Civil Rights movement was about forcing southern state and local governments to recognize the US Constitution’s “Bill of Rights.” The goal was accomplished.

Neither party’s nature has changed. The Democratic Party runs over the US Constitution’s “Bill of Rights,” and the Republican Party tries to stop them. The irony is Dems are using a black man as President to do it. To me, this is the greatest mockery.

There was a time when the Democratic Party and Thomas Jefferson were the same. They will not find healing until they return to Jefferson.

Thank you for reading.

derek

HELLO???
Does anyone think it's a little disturbing that the McCain campaign are basically admitting they were ready to put a person who didn't know Africa was a continent a heart beat away from being President. Now THAT's what an American collapse would look like, people. Get real.

phil

Veronica Redmond how refreshing and oh so different to the hariden verity who shames us all.We need to get together to bring this world back to where it should be and your sentiments are a wonderful message to all those who tried there best ,some winning and some having to try again -I raise my hat to you ,YOU ARE A TRUE aMERICAN LADY

Mary from Illinois, USA

Not to fret Melanie. We Americans may on occasion get knocked down but not for long. There is already a renewed energy and focus on rebuilding the conservative movement. In fact I already purchased my Jindal/Palin 2012 bumper stickers! I think "The Fair Tax"(.org) is another movement whose time has come--it is anti socialistic--The People can and will change America in the right direction if they are willing to get involved

john doe

"it is a democracy and the people have spoken."

Utter nonsense. It is not a democracy. It's a system of mass indoctrination, brainwashing and mind control. In a true democracy the population is informed and educated about what is going on behind the facade of snake oil salesmen, soft shoe shufflers and frauds that specialise in hoodwinking the people into believing in them. The people have not spoken. To speak you need to know. The people do not know. The Germans democratically voted Hitler in, but they were also relentlessly mesmerised and saturated with seductive promises and glib vague concepts, giving them hope for change. Goebbels would be so proud of the MSM and Obama's propaganda machine. It has been run exactly on the principles he laid out for effective manipulation of the people.
Democracy? Humbug!

phil

Veronica apologies the capital A in American lady slipped on my keyboard -a senior moment :)

Simeon Collins

It seems certain people don't actually now what they're fearful of in regards to Obama's pending term in office. Let's clear a few things up.

1) Obama is not a socialist. There is a gigantic difference between 'socialism' and social development. Whilst many of you have expressed fear that Obama will 'take from the hard-working rich and dish out to the slack and lazy poor' I must inform you that you are greatly misguided. Obama's long term plan is that of any socially aware leading politician in that he wishes to improve the quality of life, healthcare, education and employment opportunities of the lower classes, which will in turn lead to less crime, a boosted and strengthened economy & and a greater quality of life for all Americans (which I assume everyone can agree are ideals that would once more enhance the view of America as the greatest nation on earth). Policies like this can only serve to promote the idea of the American dream which has sadly been impossible to attain for so many impoverished citizens.

2) "I'm so looking forward to when reality, as described by Melanie, actually sets in. After all, you do love poverty, chaos and war, don't you?". Sean Birnie this is perhaps the stupidest comment I've ever read on a Melanie Phillips blog (and there are plethora of nonsensical ramblings to choose from I assure you!) Obama's intentions are to reduce poverty (which is fairly obvious from looking at any of his social/economic policies) and end the war in Iraq (which as we know is a war which has divided your country and was started by a Republican Government without UN backing) as well as discuss in civil terms the situation in Iran with a view to a peaceful solution. I think your irrational fear mongering is truly representative of the current negative stereotype of Americans and Republicans who loathe change. Let us be clear, the current system has failed so many Americans it is ridiculous, if you would truly prefer an anti-utilitarian world where the greed of the few restricts and ruins the lives of the many then not only are you a lousy American and Christian, you also suck as a human being.

3) Islam and Terrorism. Whilst there are a certain dedicated few that believe Terrorism is a neccessary course of action, I assure you this is not the case for the vast, VAST majority of Muslims. There is (an arguably justifyable) hatred of Americans in the middle-east at this moment in time as the war on terror, in particular the invasion and occupancy of Iraq (perpetuated by clearly false intelligence involving WMD's), is viewed as a sham and just a method for large American oil companies like to get their hands on the rich natural resources that Iraq possesses (see the 'food-for-oil' programme for evidence of this, possibly the mmost dispicable doctrine ever created). The fact that Obama has a name influenced by Islam means nothing. He has said frequently that he is not a Muslim. If he had ever truly been a Muslim and he denounced his faith is the fashion that he has, then under Sharia law he would be executed for rejecting his faith. I think that is evidence enough that bringing Chritian America to its knees submissively to hail the great Allah is not very high up on his agenda as President... The fact that many Muslim counries are ecstatic that Obama was victorious owes to the same reasoning that most other nations in the world are ecstatic, its time for a positive change, which is what Obama has intention of doing. Don't fear the enslavement of the American people, he has remarked on a large number of occasions that his story is one that could take place only in the realm of the United States, proof enough that his love for the country he serves is unparalleled.

4) The mainstream Media effect. This is the part I hope to explain without sounding patronising. For many publishers and reporters who possess, as the nature of the job would entail, a view of the wider world, there was only one option for Presidency. With his progressive and developmental plans for education, healthcare and foreign policy, Barack Obama was clearly the way forward not only for the United States but for the world in general. This, I believe, also ties in with the 'a vote for John McCain ties into racism' debate. For some, perhaps foolishly, a vote for the Republican candidate would have been seen as such step backwards for America that anyone who voted this way must have some sort of prejudice towards a man with a Black heritage. Although this view is pretty blinkered, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a multitude of people in the less cosmopolitan areas of the US voted in this way.

Although nobody in recent US history has been anywhere near as divisive as Barack Obama, have faith that the majority of your compatriots voted in a Democratic way to elect him as 44th President of your country, and at very least give his ideals a chance. Let's face it, he guaranteed to be a better job than the incumbent!

Regards from the LDN.

Dougal

Wetherby Pond: "Is this really someone you want leading your country?"

Well WP these morons don't want her running the USA, they want her to be the worlds largest superpower!! God help us all if that happens. SHhe is certainly not intelligent, and I simply can't trust anyone who hides behind that much makeup.

David

"Who stopped her, I wonder? Who ruled it out? "

Anyone with any sense after the previous car crashes of interviews.

Conservative Cabbie

John Birch
Israel
Derek et al

Ah, the joy of an uncritical mind - it must be nice to live in a world where you just accept facts reported with no thought as to why they are being reported so. I can see why Obama won, such slavish acceptance of an uncritical media by uncritical minds.

This is why I love Sarah Palin.

When asked about tension in the camp, she replied that there was no tension, that: "I love him...I honour him". Asked about going rogue, she jokingly told the interviewer that that just meant she was returning phone calls to reporters behind the campaign's back. Asked about hurt feelings, she replied “This is politics! Of course not. It’s rough and tumble and you’ve got to have a thick skin just like I’ve got.” asked about the media she replied “disappointment in the media — don’t take it personally.”

Class, integrity and humour. I realise, as Obama fans, that these are alien concepts to you, they're not exactly the top characteristics on Obama's resume, but those are the reasons I love Sarah Palin.

Conservative Cabbie

Verity

It's really annoying when this site just swallows up replies, I posted one this morning in response to your question about the 2012 ticket. I'll give it another go.

Firstly, I think it's a toss up right now between Jindal and Palin as to who gets the top spot, it'll depend who the party and the fundraisers get behind. Whilst the base will want Palin, I suspect the party will choose Jindal, as a Yale graduate and Rhodes Scholar, even arrogant liberals won't be able to accuse him of being dumb.

On to the VP choices.

1. Have a look at Eric Cantor. He's a representative from Virginia, looks to become the next chief whip in the house. He's young, 44, and is the only jewish rep. the GOP have. He's served as Chairman of the Congressional Taskforce on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare and has served on both the House Financial Services Committee and the House International Relations Committee, so he has some strong knowledge. He's also very pro-Israeli, he believes in cutting off all financial support to Palestine so I imagine Melanie will like him.

His plusses are that he's Jewish , a demographic that overwhelmingly supported Obama, he's from Virginia which will be an absolutely crucial state come 2012, he apparently is an excellent fundraiser and is popular in Pennsylvania and Florida too.

2. We've discussed General Petreaus before. Trouble is, we don't know whether he even is a republican or whether he has political ambitions. Like you, I think he'd be better as Secretary of State or Head of the Joint Chiefs.

3. Fred Thompson. Very popular within the party and a real attack dog. Apparently though, he doesn't like campaigning so probably a non starter.

4. How about Michele Bachmann, check her out on wiki, she's a representative from Minnesota who made her name recently calling Obama and other members of Democrats in congress un-american. She's an anti-abortion campaigner (the type that stands outside abortion clinics praying). She believes intelligent design should be taught in schools alongside evolution. She is basically Palin plus. I'd love her to get it just to witness liberal descent into complete derangement, if you thought their response to Palin was dispicable, I'd love to see how they react to Michele Bachmann. Andrew Sullivan's blood pressure would go through the roof.

Michael

Hey Conservative Cabbie!

I'm glad you love Sarah Palin.

Maybe you two can get together, and you could, I dunno, maybe teach her where Africa is? And what it is?

Ideal first date territory that.

raymond joseph douglas

I.too feel abandoned,by the main parties here in the UK.

Conservative Cabbie

John M

Where is the over qualified cabbie. Too intelligent but still a cab driver. Has he left the universe?

The one thing I never lay claim too is intelligence.

As for over-qualified to be a cabbie, not me, I have the worlds worst memory, not exactly a good qualification for a Cabbie - thank God for sat-nav.

Israel

Conservative Cabbie:

"Class, integrity and humour. I realise, as Obama fans, that these are alien concepts to you, they're not exactly the top characteristics on Obama's resume, but those are the reasons I love Sarah Palin."

Cabbie mate, l luv ya and i'm in a great mood two days later (so are a lot of people here in my part of South London l may add) and l know you would like a bit of a set-to to make you feel better about the fact that the US sent such a stinging rebuke to McCain/Palin by leaving them with Texas, Kansas, South Carolina and the surrounding states. You may think that "Class, Integrity and Humour" are alien concepts to Obama fans, but l can hold my head up with pride as l know that President Elect Barack Hussain Obama has not been found guilty of ethics violations (as well as facing more when she gets back), did not charge his state for nights spent at home, and when he mentioned his opponents name at his rallies and people booed he on every occasion said "You don't need to boo, just vote". How something like that lacks class l don't know. Everyone on both sides of the campaign ticket had a sense of humour, the top one being McCain (his delivery of the McCain Fine Gold during his SNL appearence had me rolling) if you didn't find it funny thats up to you. I know youy don't like him. I know that you agree with Melanie and spout most of the same things as her (even though you don't use drudge as your main information pipeline). The simple fact is that MOST PEOPLE IN THE STATES DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. You will have many more chances in the next four years to act like Richard of Gloucester (or more likely King Priam's daughter Cassandra) maybe even starting next week, if reports of what the Bush administration have done now are correct. Keep up the dialogue, l would hate to see you disappear and l will keep reading your comments with interest. Now Arsenal are out of the title race and the scousers are going back to last season's form the football season is starting to get interesting again. I am surprised that there hasn't been a further commentary from Melanie though. Surely she must have something to say now, or has the massive Jewish support for Obama left her more than a bit shell shocked? I would have thought she would have something to say about that moron Clarkson and the BBC as she had a lot to say about Brand and Ross!!!

Augustus

Of course the world has changed overnight:-

-America will be loved above all nations.
-The terrorists will have no reason to attack ever again.
-There will be no more wars or poverty.
-The planet will cool during the next four years.
-The slaughters in Darfur and the Congo will miraculously end.
-The military can now be disbanded.
-Everyone will get free medical care.
-Government will be both mother and father.
-There will be no more racism.
-Crime will subside dramatically.
-China will suddenly stop building a new coal-fired power plant every week.
-North Korea will end its nuclear programme.
-The Arabs will love the Jews.
_Hamas and Hezbollah will amend their charters and embrace Israel.
-The Government will simply print as much money as they need to pay for everything.

And all to thunderous applause!

Jakes Combri

As a South African, I can only say good luck to the poor guys and girls in the states, we had the first black president, and we are paying for it with our lives, our livelyhood, and more, when the USA accused us of being racists, we had to swallow it, now it is their turn, all of the best there in the land of the born free and taxed to death.

Conservative Cabbie

Israel

I don't like John McCain. Don't know where you got that idea. A true American hero.

I'm glad you're happy Obama won, if you'd read some of my earlier posts, you would have seen that I was happy to acknowledge his success and was pleased for his supporters. Maybe you're unclear about the meaning of class - I think of it as being able to resist the temptation to gloat, to win gracefully. Try it, it'll make you feel good in yourself.

Israel

Cabbie:

My Cassandra analogy was wrong.

Her curse was to predict the truth and not be believed. The idea that you or Melanie are in anyway like that crosses the border of the absured and into the land of ridiculous fantasy.

The Misanthropist

So! Politics is, as see once again so crudely demonstrated, the simplest of games, and as such appeals inevitably to the simple-minded: no amount of reasoned analysis on this or any other blog can dignify its essential puerility. - Witness the infantile, nay, emotionally-arrested tongue-sticking out pose of victorious 'Democrats' whose exhilaration seems to stem from nothing more intellectually complex than a playground exclamation 'Look daddy, look mummy - we've elected a black man! Aren't we clever?'- That said, if you decide to play the game yourself, you'd better be prepared to play hard. The playgrounds of history are full of snot-nosed kids crying into their torn jersey-sleeves. Black Republicans - and there are many deeply admirable such voters need - now more than ever - to stand up and offer America a way out of Obama's vilely inverted racist culture. And their white brothers and sisters need to support them in every way they can. Two can play the inverse race card game...

Ozzy

Excellent article.

The vultures of tyranny have been circling the gates of freedom for some time now.

As soon as Obama siezes the key I expect the gates to be flung open to welcome in the carrion birds of horror to gorge on the twitching corpse of liberty.

Verity

Augustus - On your list, you forgot to mention the endorphin effect. Not just will the oceans cease to rise, but so will weight! Endorfins will flood the bodies of every American man, woman and child and there will be no more comfort eating and no one will ever get fat again! Pets, too, will slender down from the feel-good factor of their owners.

Conservative Cabbie - Many thanks for your very interesting assessment. Both Palin and Jindal are strong, personable characters and they're both have natural presence - as in, they have natural star quality.

I tend to agree that the choice for president may be Jindal, partly due to the Rhodes Scholar thing - although Bill Clinton was also a Rhodes Scholar... uh ...

I am not sure that Palin would stand for VP again. No matter what the circumstances, she's a one-time loser for this position, and Americans just don't take to losers. She could get the nomination for president by saying she's Number One-spot material, which is actually true. Had she been running for president with McCain as the VP candidate, I think they could have won. As it is, Obama only squeaked in with 53% of the vote. Anway, that's yesterday's battle.

I do follow your reasoning, though. Unfortunately, in Jindal and Palin we have two excellent presidential candidates, but neither of them would shine as VP (IMO). Do you think one would run as the other's VP? I hae ma doots.

But they're both very viable for the top spot.

For VP, from what you've written, Eric Cantor looks very good. And understands that terrorism isn't about revenge for feeling misunderstood, so that would make a welcome change.

General Petreaus, agreed. We don't know where he stands politically, and we shouldn't. (Of course, we don't know where Colin Powell stands, either, except all over the place wherever there's a job opportunity). Best reserve Petreaus for Joints Chiefs of Staff or Sec'y of Defense, as you noted. Don't know the Michele lady, but she could frighten people off. Also, people may have gone off the name Michel(l)e by then.

Thanks for a thought-provoking post! (Agree about Fred Thompson, which is a pity; but there it is.)

Thanks again and have a good day!

Jasmine

Look at this from Simeon Collins:

“Obama's long term plan is that of any socially aware leading politician in that he wishes to improve the quality of life, healthcare, education and employment opportunities of the lower classes, which will in turn lead to less crime, a boosted and strengthened economy.”

This is why people link Obama with Blair.

This has all been done in the UK over the last decade. The education system there has had the biggest investment it has ever had in the history of that country.

Result? Business leaders there are in despair at the decline in literacy and numeracy.

The UK’s healthcare system is a mess. One of the reasons being the NHS - the taxpayer - picks up the tab no matter what. That means people don’t have any incentive to take care of themselves. Want to get in a bust up on a Friday night? In the UK it’s OK, you won’t have to pay the bill - the state will. That is one of the reasons why the country is so violent.

The NHS is also routinely exploited by what the Press over there calls ‘health tourists’, people who take a plane from anywhere in the world to give birth, have their illness or whatever - and who pays for it? Their taxpayers do.

No wonder their country is in so much debt. A look over a few British websites soon opened my eyes to the truth of what actually happens with a state healthcare system.

As for crime and the economy. Which country was it that made it to the front of Time magazine for its world class youth crime rate? You guessed it.

The ‘boosted’ economy, says Simeon? Guess who has the worst banking system now outside of Iceland? Yes, it’s the UK.

Oh, and look at this headline:

‘IMF: UK to be worst hit in global economic downturn’

http://www.financemarkets.co.uk/2008/10/08/imf-uk-to-be-worst-hit-in-global-economic-downturn/

Anyone who has studied British politics will know that Obama is borrowing a lot of domestic policy ideas from Blair. These can be summed up as: spend, spend, spend on useless social programme after useless social programme - as set out in Simeon Collins‘ apple pie nonsense.

Simeon’s delusions go on: “Obama's intentions are to… end the war.”

Really? What’s he going to do?

Have a chat with Allah and get The Koran revised?

The call to “Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate” was uttered before our country even existed.

It’s not a response to George W Bush and it certainly won’t disappear once he’s out of office. This is a war that goes back to the Gates of Vienna and beyond.

It only stops when we all submit to Islam. Us, Israel, India. Everywhere. That’s the deal on the table - submit.

It was the same centuries ago and it’s the same now.

“There is (an arguably justifyable) hatred of Americans in the middle-east.”

What’s justifiable about this?

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

And this:

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

And so on:

"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastize them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

This is what they’re up against in Delhi, up against in Paris, up against in Madrid and what we’re up against because we‘re the only country with any chance of stopping it.

The mainstream media share your delusions and wish that entering a state of denial might yield better results than trying to tackle the problem head on.

It didn‘t work in the 1930s and it won‘t work now.

jdona

Everyone needs to slow down some here. Don't overlook that 56 million Americans did not vote for Obama and will stand in firm defiance of him and in between him and his ideologues. The President has power, but he is subject to the laws and the princples of the American Constitution. The Republicans are already regrouping and they will wage a fierce comeback for the next congressional elections in 2 years. And they will have a lot of help from the groups that don't support Obama and consider him too extreme. Americans like change to a certain extent, but they don't like to go overboard. There are so many watchdog groups that are already springing up the biggest risk is that his administration will be paralyzed from day one. And he hasn't even been sworn in yet. So I don't think anyone needs to worry here. He doesn't have a filibuster proof majority and the Republicans are not weasels. They will fight back, along with about 20% of the Democrats who did not vote for him and who do not support him.

Marlene

I reluctantly voted for McCain because not voting was a vote for Obama. McCain had similar solutions as Obama, cap and trade, global warming etc. Obama is a self-invented empty suit egomaniac. I was trying to stay positive, and now after reading your what is for me icing on the cake column, I am going to have myself a good cry. I am a Jew born and raised in Brooklyn, thank G-d I moved to Georgia...I still have my common sense.

David

Conservative Cabbie,

When the press were slavering after Palin's daughter and her preganancy, Obama said "My mother had me when I was 18"

Class, integrity and decency? The man has it in spades.

Israel

Cabbie:

I wasn't gloating, and l hope you don't think that l have totally lumped you in with the pessimistic ranks of negative hyperbole that have infested this site in the last 48 hours. I am extremely proud of Obama for winning the election in the way he did. Did he resort to the same kind of attacks that those who were employed by McCain did back in 2000 on McCain himself? There are many, many skelentons in McCain's closet but Obama didn't go there. There are many who are involved with missing POW's from Vietnam who have a deep hatred for McCain who would of come forward at the drop of a hat to critcize him, and before anyone else thinks i've gone too far or stepped over the line to put forward the idea of criticizing a war veteran and hero just two words for you, John Kerry (oh yeah, l forgot I.O.K.I.Y.A.R). Yes, there are those who are supporting Obama are gloating on this site, but are you really surprised? Some of the vitriol aimed at the candidates has been intense on both sides, but if you really think that some on the side of McCain on this site (expecially Melanie, logdon, Frank P, an american and Verity) would not have gloated extensively if McCain had won then l will swap you your house for the five majic beans in my pocket!!!

By the way, Man City have just scored!!

Israel

The Misanthropist:

Since there hasn't been a black republican in the House or Senate since J.C. Watts lost just where are you going to find one to put forward to advance the republican message? Do you really think that McCain/Palin stump speeches have been a booster for black republican recruitment? It's been a few years since Ken Mehlman has been in charge of the RNC and even that didn't do too much good did it.

derek

Conservative Cabbie,
I certainly don't appreciate you saying I have an uncritical mind, because by all definitions, I believe that to be not true, and have never specifically disrespected you.

However, that's besides the point. The complaints are that the MSM is too liberal, but they didn't even get to question Palin enough to let everyone in the world know that she did not know who was in NAFTA or that Africa was a continent and not a country. Who won that battle of getting their agenda across???? Conservatives! Can you imagine the horrible state of the USA had Palin (who has shown over and over how little she knows and understands of the rest of the world) been president?

And the Obama supporters are "uncritical" and over won by fan fare??? Give me a break.

I hate to say it, but probably everybody who posts on here is smarter than that girl. And for the Republicans to seriously put her up for VP is considered "anti-American" in my book. Heck, that could even be considered treason to some. Think of the liability. Jesus.

derek

"Country First" seems like a joke now.

Verity

Conservative Cabbie - I looked up Eric Cantor and he looks good physically. Intelligent, with a strong face. Good presentation.

But he's only a Representative! He's not even a Senator ... and I really don't like the idea of Senators standing for the top jobs. They are engaged day after day talking and doing deals, not running anything, and the President needs strong chief executive experience. (Which is another reason Obama is going to fail. He's a sub-surface wheeler-dealer, not a chief executive.) Joe Biden's been a member of the world's top talking shop for God knows how long, but he couldn't run a bath. (As an aside, he claims to have graduated in the top half of his class in law school. Turns out he was 189th out of 297 students. I recall that Jimmy Carter claimed to have graduated Number One in his class in - was it? - nuclear engineering or something, and he was actually way down the list of achievers. Interesting how the Dems have to lie their way into jobs.)

That's why a Governor is always to be preferred, IMO. I just don't think a Representative, no matter how intelligent and quick witted and right thinking he is, can possibly qualify to run for President or Vice President.

Jen

I am an American and your last paragraph sums up exactly how I feel. I did not vote for Barack Obama and there were millions and millions of other Americans (55.8 million to be exact) who did not get caught up in the Obama hype (63 million). Let's not forget, he only won a little more than half of the popular vote. He didn't win by a landslide.

south american italian

You guys wouldn't be so optimistic if you were down here in South America.

Obama incorporates anti-americanism. Either he will fit the image - and that will be disastruous for the whole world - or not - and that will be disastruous for Amercica. Thus, for the whole world.

Conservative Cabbie

David

Don't understand your post. I'm not being funny, I just don't get the 18 reference, please expand.

Israel

Do I really think Obama lacks class? Actually, no. Do I have genuine concerns about the way he views freedom of speech and democracy? Yes. However, the people have spoken and for now I'm on the losing side, that's OK, that's the way it should work.

As for me agreeing with Melanie on everything she writes, I'm afraid you're mistaken. I don't believe in a marxist conspiracy, a Gramscian plot or an Islamist one. I think Obama will rule from just left of centre in his first term (he'll want re-election after all). I have plenty of problems with Obama though, which I've been able to think of all by myself. Not bad for a rightist.

Ps Football. Pah! Namby-pamby prima donnas. If you're looking for a prober sport, baseball and American Football, now we're talking. Go Sox, go Patriots!

Conservative Cabbie

Verity

I agree that a Governor for the top job is the best way. After this year, I'm not sure we'll see a legislator get nominated for the top of the ticket by the GOP again. However, the VP does provide a link from the executive branch to the legislative branch so I think he'd be fine for VP. I really named him as he's a new one to me and he looked interesting.

As to Palin and Jindal, they'll go head to head in the primaries. I think a lot of it will come down to fund raising and who has the better surrogates. Both have strong conservative credentials, equally pro second amendment and pro-life, who will the advocates for those positions support? Palin has one big advantage right now, the local party dignatries love her because she mobilised volunteers in massive numbers, something always necessary in campaigns. Unfortunately, she has one big disadvantage too, she's got a huge target on her back right now. The Dems will bend over backwards to beat her when she goes for re-election in Alaska,the media will continue to gleefully report her negatives and not her positives and GOP insiders opposed to her will continuously snipe at her. I'm not sure she'll be able to survive all that politically.

It might make sense for both Palin and Jindal to sit out 2012, let Romney get beaten. Americans tend to give their Presidents two terms. In 2016, both will have served two terms as Governors, Jindal will only be 45, Palin 50ish.

I was kidding with Michele Bachmann, I would just love to see Andrew Sullivan's reaction. From a purely male perspective though, it really would be the hottest ticket in town.

Hayward Maberley

Melanie et al.
From Clive Davis Blog
Niall Ferguson adds his thoughts to a mini-symposium in today's Guardian:"I started out as an adviser to your rival; you won me over. It wasn't so much your rhetorical skills, though they are second to none. It was the substance of what you had to say, from talks with Iran to taxation. It was also your extraordinary composure under pressure. Well, you are going to need that quality in the four years that lie ahead, and especially in your first 100 days. Because I have some bad news for you. You've talked of tax cuts and spending increases that could cost around a trillion dollars. Unfortunately, that money has already been spent by your predecessor in bailing out the banking system. You won't easily be able to spend it again. So watch out for the bond market; it's getting nervous. And tell your fellow Democrats to try to copy your composure. Winning this election was a phenomenal achievement. But now the really hard work begins - of governing in a recession."
A rational and reasonable statement would you not say, from someone who uses such in his writings.

Tom - Brazil

Absolutely precise article.

Progressists throughout the world have been trying to literally criminalise the conservative values and agenda. They count on the precious help of objective allies such as islamic extremists, african dictators and south-american socialists to keep on imposing this new agenda, which stresses in its first article the hate of USA and western civilisation.

All different sorts of left-oriented groups still cannot stand their defeat on the economic level and regrouped themselves for a different battle in the cultural field.

Unfortunately, conservatives have not yet realised that they are under a massive attack and refuse to battle back arguing that "communism" is over just because the former leftists adopted market-oriented economies. They seem to forget that free economy is just one of the aspects of a free society. Some key cultural values are as important as the economy in a free society. In fact, these values are the background of the entire society and they are under severe attack. Obama´s election is just the last and most significant sign of this attack.

It is time for conservatism to prepare for this battle. The first step has to be admitting its existance.

James Hanley

It's sad to know the UK has such blithering idiots, too. Look at the type of people here who are agreeing with you-the fear-mongers and vicious haters. I'd be ashamed to attract such company.

André Morais Filho

I'm brazilian, but conscious of the importance the United States have for the West. It's said Melanie, but we're seeing the America of Whitman and Emerson turn into the America of hip-hop, to say it briefly.

josef krystof

Please get a clue. The "the suspension of reason and its replacement by thuggery" was from 2000 to 2008. That's when the president broke the law with impunity to spy on and lie to his countrymen, torture his enemies, and shred the constitution he swore to protect.

We want a liberal country, an sensible social democracy. All those "thugs" trying to use "socialist" as an insult when in fact what the USA could use is a leavening of our capitalism with more socialist safeguards.

Cathy

I for one, am an American who did not vote for Obama and the only thing that I take issue with Melanie's piece is her closing statement that my country is no longer the home of the free and the brave.

There are many of us who are profoundly disturbed by the potential direction in which Obama could take us. Freedom isn't free. It is going to cost us a lot of hard work, involvement, and increased public service (activism even). (Yes I am a registered Republican) We are networking even now. We will be putting pressure on our congressmen and women, to hopefully steer their decisions. We are casting aside our complacency and our getting ready to work.

We did learn one thing from Obama. "YES WE CAN" preserve our nation.

Travis the Adult

You're right! You're all right! Us American's, we sure did it. Look what we've gotten ourselves into now! How stupid can we get? I mean really... honestly... for God's sake! We're so stupid! We've got some kind of death wish don't we! We're like tiny infants with no understanding of how things really are! How can we even be expected to make decisions for ourselves? The fabric of society is going to tear apart and the earth is going to open up and swallow our country asunder! Fire balls from the heavens will rain down upon our heathenist society and engulf every last creatin who voted for Obama! He is the One that is foretold by the Good Book... Or maybe you're all just a bunch of over-reacting nutjobs. Grow up and listen to yourselves! It must be really sad to live with such fear... I truly feel sorry for all of you. Now... I and the rest of the adults are gonna roll up our sleaves and start working towards making things work in this country for once. You guys keep on wailing away... and maybe when you've tuckered yourselves out, and blown your noses, things will have changed. No thanks to any of you.

Howard H

Yes it is a democracy and we should be proud for that fact. The unfortunate part is that it is to easy to run for candidacy of our highest office. BEFORE anyone even attempts to run for President they should meet certain criteria and pass security checks. (I know I will get comments like; "Oh well who is going to decide what those should be") I would answer, "lets let common sense guide us" but after this election I dont have much faith in common sense anymore.
Some of those pre requisites SHOULD infact be the mandatory release and submission of certain documents and records that reveal a sense of history into who this candidate really is, so that we can see for our selves and NOT just see or be blinded by what the candidate wants us to see, or by who ever he decides to portray himself as when he woke up that day and decided to run for President.

I mean come on this is the highest office in our country and I am not comfortable enough to say that ANYONE really knows who this guy REALLY is.

I have to say he did run a very good campaign. Close to flawless. He is a very inspirational speaker, I agree. I learned early to beware of those who talk so smoothly. They are the ones you have to watch out for. His campaign went so well, because he had a huge war chest of campaign funds and avoided any REAL topics and issues. And Guess what? The American People and the MEDIA let him get away with it. He said what every he needed to depending on who was standing in front of him at that moment, and basically promised the American people that ALL their problems will magically disappear if he was elected. They media portrayed him to be who they wanted him to be, and not for who he REALLY is, what he REALLY stands for, and most importantly WHO stands behind him. HELL yes a presidential candidate's past associations and track record should matter. If he was a republican candidate, (black, white or other) he would have been held to a much higher standard, and none of what so easily was tossed aside with Obama would have been let go and dismissed as easily.
He based his WHOLE campaign on the fact that he was NOT George Bush or a Repulican, that along with the fact that he is a black man was ALL he needed to get elected.
I asked many personal friends who they were voting for, and the ones who were voting for Obama, like robots, and products of a well paid for campaign, they all answered "I'm voting for change" or "No more of the same" COME ON!!! Very few, if any actually had an intelligent answer, and moreover knew anything of substance about the candidate they were going to elect for president.
I am proud for America and that we have grown enough to elect a black president. NO im not a racist and every time I spoke against Obama or for McCain that was the first thing I was called. But aside from proving that a black man can run and be elected president, Obama proved that even the White House is for sale.
I do fear for this country and its future since the outcome of this election. Half of me wants Obama to do EVERYTHING he promised to do, so that when this country turns to crap and goes deeper into economic turmoil, I can gloat like the Obama supporters are gloating now, and I can point my finger and say "I told you so" The other part of me wants Obama to be like every other politician and NOT follow through with their empty promises, so this country can survive and stand strong!

We have change... Now lets HOPE!

David

"Let's not forget, he only won a little more than half of the popular vote. He didn't win by a landslide."

Interestingly he got a higher percentage share than Reagan on 1980 and 10 million more votes.

CC,

When Palin was picked, one of the things the press did was to go after her daughter, who was a pregnant unmarried teen. Obama at a press conference said that his mother gave birth to him when she was about the same age and that he respects Ms Palin's choice. It killed the story stone dead, and got the press off of Ms Palin's case.

It was the measure of a decent man with integrity. Both he and McCain conducted the campaign with decency in the face of certain others who would have resulted to scrabbling in the dirt.

Pedro Erik

To me, Obama presidency will be fun, because we will see that "the change" will be timid. But for the world, I agree with you, it will be extremely dangerous. The world needs a strong America. Sorry, but the Europeans used to be weak in defending western principles and culture. Despite they had witnessed Churchil and de Gaulle, and have theorist like Burke, Chesterton and Gibbon (Ok, all British).

Let me say that I reached your blog through the best blogger in Brazil, called Reinaldo Azevedo.

Verity

First, these Blogs pages were perpetrated by the illiteratti of the computer world. They don't understand the use of actual words and making it convenient to use them. The notion of putting the Comments box at the top of a blog which may have 200 comments on it, to be scrolled through by someone reading the last post and wishing to add their own comment could only have been thought of during a full moon.

Does this illiterate not understand that people scroll back and forth to check facts, quotes and spellings and no one wants to spend half their lives scrolling through over 200 comments.

I intended to respond to Conservative Cabbie, but by the time I'd scrolled up again through over 200 comments, I'd forgotten the sentence that provoked my thought and what the response actually was.

This is the act of "a website designer". I cannot put it any more strongly than that.

Move the Comments box south.

Hayward Maberley

John Doe,
It is interesting that many of the NeoTheocons now posting keep bring up Hitler/Nazis.I have posted before concerning Godwins Law & Dodds Corollary.
However you then introduced Dr Paul Joseph Goebbels, he who together with Hitler were, if not the creators of The Big Lie, two of its most adept practitioners.
However Five Deferment Dick and others in the noisome Cabal of NeoTheocons were pretty adept as well. Well past the absolute proof that Iraq had nothing to do with the events of 11 September Five Deferment Dick was still spouting that Big Lie
as well as the others such as al Qa'ida being in Iraq prior to the Fiasco. Of course he was joined by The Poodle with his own whopper concerning the 45 minute launch and the very dodgy dossier.

phil

Cabbie you are taking the result in a classy way ,,well done,I knew you would ,as is veronica -this is what is needed in a proper society -to try one,s best until the race is run and accept winning and losing with equal grace .sen Mcain did precisely that -just wish others would do the same and try to pull the world out of the mess it is in

-I see the usual suspects are still carping even looking for the next incumbent before Obama has even had his first day in office .My judgement is that you are worth more than that and I wish you didnt associate your beliefs with the fragrant one whose whole ethos I find despicable .The man needs to be given a fair chance to prove himself and his words -I will be the first to shout foul if he does not .

Dan Dartington

Melanie,
you watched his acceptance speech I presume. In it he stated the exact opposite of what you assertion in the penultimate paragraph. He talked clearly and eloquantly of his belief in the ideals of America. What's the point in commenting when you don't go from what he said but from what you believe he's thinking? It's not analysis in any meaningful way. When he's president you, and anyone else, can comment on his actions, but right now you're just making stuff up.

You allege that Mr Obama believes the constitution to be flawed, possibly by his use of the term 'perfecting our union'. As originally ratified the constitution contained the following; "Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons" The 'all other persons' means slaves, by the way. Not hard to see why someone might think it's flawed, apart from you apparently. More importantly his phrase "perfecting the union" is a deliberate echo of the preamble to contstitution ; "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union..." The concept of the continuing perfecting of the Union is there at the begining and is the ideal that Mr Obama is claiming as his inheritance, the inheritance of John Adams, Thomas Jefferson et al.
but you wouldn't see that would you?
have fun for the next four (eight?) years
Dan

Sue

dereck said:
"Funny how Fox News is reporting the same stories that the liberal-biased MSM was reporting before the election was over.

Wonder why that might be????? Maybe the MSM was reporting the real stories the whole time and Fox News was reporting the conservative-biased news during the election.

all you all that are blaming this on the MSM need to acknowledge reality."

Hog wash, the MSM includes FOX, particularly now. FOX softened it's investigation and commentary as the election approached, preparing themselves to "fit" in the new paradigm. They want to keep their jobs. They'll play devil's advocate with liberals until the two party system shifts. It's not a surprise that they aren't defending conservative values and are back peddling on there positions. It a business, not a mission. They, like so many conservatives have decided to become "politically correct".

blackessej

Hmmm...I've felt abandoned, horrified, and deeply apprehensive about the future for the last eight years. Now I feel like a weight has been lifted. I think it's because the jerk who's been supposedly representing me and my country has been running around kicking all of the ant hills of the world and stirring up fear and contemptment while simultaneously encouraging apathy and indifference among his populace. Now, finally after all these years, I feel empowered, optimistic, and courageous.

Fernando

Not only Americans feel that way, but freedom-lovers from many countries. America stood up for freedom many times in the past. Will this happen again in the future?

George Steiner

For what it is worth fellows, I don’t know what the Obambi euphoria is all about. As far as I know most American blacks are descendants of slaves. Obambi is descendant of a white mother and a black Kenyan Muslim. A real first generation Kenyan American at best. Had he been a real American black man, descendent of slaves I would go along with some of the euphoria.

Americans have in fact elected a foreigner as their president. I know he is technically an American. Maybe. But he has proclaimed himself to be citizen of the world. If I said such a thing as a throw away line signifying that I am comfortable anywhere, that would be one thing. But the One didn’t mean that.

The first group of people who will be disappointed will be American blacks. And they will show it. Many of you claim to know what the One is or isn’t. Still he is for sure a converso. They in the original have kept their old faith in secret. May be he does too.

Having a star studded cast of helpers takes only money. But they will squabble and how will the One know whose advice to take?

Sue

Frank P.- Thanks for the hearty welcome! Yes, it appears Melanie is a gem, and I'm happy to have found her. Though I certainly appreciate your hopefulness for America, I'm none the less dubious about the ability of this country to reverse the slide at this point.

Somewhere on this posting, "Jill" made a splendid commentary/prophesy about future Obama presidency.

Verity

Fernando writes: "Not only Americans feel that way, but freedom-lovers from many countries. America stood up for freedom many times in the past. Will this happen again in the future?"

Yes, Fernando, we all understand that everyone wants to be "free". What countries have actually fought for freedom, Fernando? Could you name some? The United States, which you admit fought for freedom in the past and perhaps again in the future? (against who, by the way?), Britain, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, India ... can you see where I'm going with this?

Of course everyone wants to be free. Who actually fought for freedom?

Verity

Move the Comments box south.

Who will join me in this plea - or, in today's terminology - demand?

Verity

I have to come back to Fernando's self-indulgent flaccid idiocy: "Not only Americans feel that way, but freedom-lovers from many countries. America stood up for freedom many times in the past. Will this happen again in the future?

The whole world are "freedom lovers" Fernando. This does not give them a badge. If they haven't done anything to preserve freedom, they don't count.

Also, site designers, move the Comments box south.

Israel

Conservative Cabbie:

I went to a live American Football game once and once only when l was in the US. I WANT THAT FOUR HOURS OF MY LIFE BACK!!!

Now if you said Lacrosse, which l played as a teenager until girls and strong larger became more interesting, then you would have a buddy to share the tab with.

I'm really amazed at some of the right wingers on this site. Eight years ago Bush ran as the candidate for change who would be bipartizan in his approach to govern. What he meant was "agree with everything l say, no matter what". Under him you saw the largest growth in government as well as the largest expansion of debt, and the standing of the US plummet due to his stupidity and braggadocio. He was aided by a congress who walked in lock step with him every step of the way for six years and not a peep from most on the right, just a smug view that he "had a mandate" and that was all there was to say. Well, Obama has a true mandate. He received more of the vote than Bush, he won more States and he has a large caucus in the House and Senate. As much as some here would like to say that after two years of campaigning they don't know what Obama is for (the irony of people using the internet to discuss Obama's policies while his website, which has a list of his policies, is just a couple of clicks away can be refected apon by others) a lot of others do. On Palin l have to say that it will be interesting if she does come back for 2012. She has strong support from the religious right, commentators like Kristol and bloggers like Johnson of LGF but from the reaction of people like George Will and Peggy Noonan expecially to the revelation about Palin and Africa she may not have the following that some on here think. In fact, there seems to be the beginning of a circular firing squad happening right now. Personally i'm interested to see how that goes!!

Relugus

Its funny how Melanie is enraged at the thought of socialist policies being implemented for the poor and working/middle class. Strange, then, that looking through the archives, it seems Melanie was not at all offended by the socialism which Bush used to bail out the Wall Street fat cats. Melanie, if she is, as she claims to be, a "conservative", should have been furious at the bailout, yet she was, curiously, silent. To her, welfare handouts to the rich is just fine and dandy.
Corporate welfare exploded under Bush, but not a word from Melanie.

The Bush Administration f***ed up everything it touched; inept planning and execution of the Iraq war until Petraeus came along and used smart "soft power" tactics.

Obama takes Afghanistan more seriously than Bush (who was only ever interested in Iraq) ever did.

Bush spent taxpayers money the same way he used to consume alchohol. Tell me, Melanie, how does borrowing money from China make America safer?

Cathy

Howard H-
Hope is not something that just comes magically to you. Hope is something you create for yourself, out of the fruits of your own aspirations and labors.

So if you don't like the Change that is about to come upon us, but would Hope for something better in the future, roll up your sleeves and get to work.

Whatever your party affiliation is or is not, get involved, even in small ways. Keep track of how your congress people are voting. Contact them and let them know where you'd like to see them go. If you can blog here, you can just as easily email them. And there are websites where you can track just what they are doing in congress, and follow specific pieces of legislation.

This is going be especially important during the course of this administration.

My take on this is that those of us who took the time to study the candidates and place a well thought out and educated vote in this election (yes I confess bias in that statement) are now going to to have take the extra time and effort to make up for those who didn't, and get more involved. Criticize me if you wish for making what I admit could be a judgemental statement. Simple fact is, we need to spend less time watching TV and more time following what's happening in Washington, and communicating, communicating, communicating with those who are representing us.

Simeon

jasmine

1) are you baffled enough to suggest that the NHS is a worse system than the current US healthcare plan? either you are completely void of any empathy whatsoever or you simply do not know. Over 50million Americans DO NOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE and worse still is the pre-existing conditions scandal which allows insurance companies to select who they treat in disgusting manner. If you seriously believe in letting the poor rot and die in such a manner then god help you!

2) Tony Blair is not Barack Obama. Let me also include that Labour won the 2001 election by an even larger landslide than in 1997 because the first four years of blairs term were seen as a success, however, the decision to follow that buffoon Bush into Iraq (a decision which was ALWAYS going to alient blair from the british people) was clearly his downfall, the conservatives didnt win that election largely because Michael Howard is possibly the least likeable man on planet earth. If our two nations hadnt been fighting a war we couldnt afford the money could have been put to somewhat better use. Also let me inform you, UK borrowing is currently at around 35% of GDP whereas US borrowing is nearly double that, a far cry from 8yrs ago with the surplus Clinton left the Republicans wouldnt you agree??

3) Islam is not a violent religion. september 11th was truly a tragedy. however if you consider the meaning of the word tragedy you will understand that I mean it was of the US's own making. Less than 10,000 Americans died in 9/11 (that is not me for a moment trivialising the loss of innocent lives), do you know how many arabs have died in the Gulf and Iraq wars??the figure dwarfs anything that Islam and radical muslims have done to the western world. also Jihad does not mean violent war. the main meaning of Jihad is the battle within oneself to become a better muslim and person. the external jihad encapsulates what is just when you feel your people are being degraded (Guantanamo bay) and slaughtered. The fact is, however much you wish to quote from the Qu'ran, christians have killed far more innocent people than muslims have, please do a little historical research if you are honestly ignorant.

on a personal note jasmine if you have this little faith in the people of this planet, feel free to go somewhere else...

Bob in Obamination

So now, finally, the media decides after it's far too late to unjump into the abyss, to take a few tepid steps in the direction of doing the job they should have done a year ago. Charlie Rose, John Meacham, and Evan Thomas had a nice, fearful discussion about the fact that they had no idea who Barack Obama is. That there was even a "creepy personality of cult" about him.That he's "deeply manipulative". A few nights ago, the same thing with Tom Brokaw. "There's a lot about him we don't know". Where was this even a month ago, let alone a year? That despite two books, no one knows anything about him. These self absorbed prima donnas who are supposedly the watchdog of the political system have been so busy protecting the yard of the democratic party, that they had no idea that they did their best at defeating someone with a more liberal than conservative ideology, has proven that he can and will reach across the aisle. He's stabbed more conservative Republicans in the back than anyone. McCain was their darling 2 years ago. Now they've stabbed him in the back so they could have the honor of having the first black president. Never mind the fact that the man has spent only 143 or so days as a senator. They, along with the leftist machinery in this nation have elected a man who no one knows anything about, who associates with a list of shady characters, and one murderer on that list. They chucked their well known, record proved, old buddy overboard in exchange for Barack Obama. By their own admission, a complete unknown. A plebe with a messianic complex is about to be in charge of a multi-trillion dollar corporation. His one promise is to spread the wealth. The stock market has had the largest post election sell-off in history. And that just after an already massive sell-off. The democrats have already been talking about their upcoming attack on free speech (the "fairness" doctrine). Now, they are talking about buying out, federalizing, all 401K plans. That is, removing them from the stock market.

Have you had you "uh-oh" moment yet? The media is just starting to.

Frank P

Melanie

Pretty please ... I'm with V - move the commentary box south! Or, after numerous vain requests from Verity me and several others since this site opened, do we not deserve a rational reply as to why not, perhaps?

Pete H/James F? Not much to ask given the hits of which you are so proud? An explanation? A good one would shut me up, but by Gaaard! It had better be really good 'un.

Verity

You need to read Protein Wisdom's last entry about Sarah Palin (and the comments thereafter) Caption: Carl Cameron and Shep Smith Fox News Uberdouches; there is mischief afoot and I hereby nominate you for membership of the outlawry!

http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=13611

Appears that Fox, for obvious reasons, has gone all O-barmy after the act. Hell, I'm gonna write a book called "Melanie Alone". 'Mongst the paid hacks this seems to be it!

Particlarly as The (Other) One (yes - our Great Leader Andrew Neil) remained in the Big Apple, shipped over his two regulars on the couch and invited Gerry Springer, and other Obamites for an away fixture of 'This Week' (at great expense to us licence fee payers and maybe a double dip on expenses from the subscription of this Magazine, justified in the exes by the piece in Coffee House, no doubt). It was an Obama lovefest with nary a voice of dissent. Completely racist in content, until they suddenly caught themselves on and tried to readjust. Utterly feckin' nauseating, with Diane Abbott oozing ...erm ... well just oozing! They even called the Scottish by-election as a win for Brown! Hope they're wrong, but the way things are going ....?

diana

well obama was not my choice buti will support him. now can we get the republican party back from
the loonies.

Frank P

Sue

Sorry, just spotted you comment about Fox; we're on the same wavelength there too, as you can by my message to Verity.

Verity

Cathy - You are right! I seriously intend to take some time off from weaving my peace baskets.

Dixon

...which by MY analogy, makes the person I quoted one of the snakes!

derek

Cathy,
You say "My take on this is that those of us who took the time to study the candidates and place a well thought out and educated vote in this election (yes I confess bias in that statement) are now going to to have take the extra time and effort to make up for those who didn't".

But somehow Obama had the endorsement of the most Nobel Prize winners of any presidential candidate ever. You're right...those guys must not think about what they are doing.

Bob Builder

This is quite simply rubbish. Where are the justifications for "thuggery"? For the "teaching American children to despise the founding values of their country and hijacking discourse by the minority power-grab of victim-culture."??

I don't think I have ever read anything less reasoned. This is not journalism, it is shouting "It's not FAIR!"

Sue

Dan Dartington said:

"More importantly his phrase "perfecting the union" is a deliberate echo of the preamble to constitution ; "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union..." The concept of the continuing perfecting of the Union is there at the beginning"

You’re wrong Dan. There's nothing in the preamble that states in any way that the founding fathers viewed the Union as being subject to or in need of any continuing "perfecting".

The statement reads in the PRESENT tense, and the term is "perfect", used as an adjective to describe the Union.
No tinkering necessary, no verb tense implied. Echo? Hardly!

I'm sure Melanie heard Obama's speech, and that her comments rose from what she had already learned of the man...not just what she imagined he was about.

I'm not an investigative reporter, but it didn't take me long to find actual recorded interviews of Obama making questionable comments about his views on the constitution and his belief that it needed changing. Melanie didn't "allege" anything that wasn't already available on the internet for the persistent researcher.

Add that to his long associations with nefarious individuals, who clearly have indicated their hatred for America, you get a pretty good idea about this guy's ideology at least.

I heard the speech and what I heard was the bleating of a Judas goat!

Here's one of the interviews, hear it for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

Oh, and DO NOT imply that anyone who is not black can't really understand his point of view. It's not gonna fly. There are loads of people in America now, who have come from countries that more recently than 200 years ago have perpetrated slavery and all sorts of human rights crimes.

If any playing field is more level now in America, it is race. Although you wouldn't know it to see the news. This is one Polish/Irish/American Indian that has NO guilt about what happened to black men and women in early American history.
Do I have sorrow and compassion for those who suffered? Definately! Do I protest such behavior as slavery? Undoubtedly! But that was then and this is now...get over it.

I'm not beating the poor me drum, looking for reperations over what happened to my great, great, great, great grandparents on the Trail of Tears, when white men drove the Cherokee across the nation to resettle in the west.

Stephen Williams

Palin seemed to more of a conservative but she is now under attack from her own side, any thoughts on this?

Conservative Cabbie

David

You're right on Obama's point about Palin's daughter. However, he's also the man who literally gave the bird to both Hillary and John McCain, called a reporter "sweetie" and told Hillary "you're likeable enough". I'd say he's batting .250 on the classy scale. I also believe, although I'm sure you'll disagree, that the "lipstick on a pig" comment was deliberate.

Phil

Are you suggesting that I shouldn't be talking about who the GOP should put up in 2012? I don't see the problem with it, I've really enjoyed the campaign over the last year, I need to fill the hole. Whilst I can acknowledge his win, I'm afraid I can't get excited about his Presidency, I need my campaign fix.

Conservative Cabbie

Verity

Seconded.

Conservative Cabbie

Hayward

Reasonable comments, except, he says that Obama won him over with his substance on taxation but then goes on to add that Obama talks of tax cuts and spending increases but that there is no money in the coffers to do this. I'm sorry, but if someone as dumb as me can see the gaping hole in that logic, then I'm afraid I don't agree that his view is at all rational.

Those of us on the right would say that this is symptomatic of the lefts loss of critical thinking on Obama, they've just accepted seriously flawed thinking without questioning it at all. They've clung onto intangibles and catchphrases. "hope", "change", "post-partisanship" - where's the substance?

He won though, so what do I know.

Conservative Cabbie

Simeon

Like Obama, you call 9/11 a tragedy. No Simeon, an earthquake is a tragedy, a volcano is a tragedy. 9/11 was cold-blooded murder on a gargantuan scale. To liken it to events in Iraq and Afghanistan is ridiculous. I'm happy that American and British troops never deliberately target civilians.

The accidental death of innocent lives, now that is tragic, murder is not.

israel

Is Melanie okay?

From one or two posts a day to now nothing?

Has the massive swing of Jewish voters in the US to Obama surprised her? I mean, all those people who don't believe that he is some sort of secret radical muslim socialist wanting to convert them all under the sword!! And his choice of Rahm Emmanuel!! Wow, what an anti Israeli pick he is!!!

Nothing from Melanie on Clarkson's comments or the overly PC brigade's attempt to deny good people the chance to be foster parents because they smoke?

COME ON!!! There must be something in the last few days she would like to comment on!! It's not like the world has just stopped is it.

yank in london

I am a "lion-hearted, decent, rational and sturdy" American who does not find myself "abandoned, horrified, [or] deeply apprehensive for the future of their country and the free world". That is a description of how I, and a great many of my countrymen (also "lion-hearted, decent, rational and sturdy") spent the past eight years.

Jill

Jen wrote: I am an American and your last paragraph sums up exactly how I feel. I did not vote for Barack Obama and there were millions and millions of other Americans (55.8 million to be exact) who did not get caught up in the Obama hype (63 million). Let's not forget, he only won a little more than half of the popular vote. He didn't win by a landslide.
--------------------------

Hi Jen, I am proud to be an American for the same reasons as you, reasons that have nothing to do with the psychological ability to vote for a black Marxist instead of a white Marxist.

Here's something that might cheer us up. Lucianne has a cartoon today. The front page on a newspaper from 2004 says, "Bush Won 51%: Nation Divided;" another one says, "Obama Won 52%: Nation United."

Don't be shy to round your figure to 56 million. The Democratic Ministry of Current Truth (Mainstream media) would if it was them. They would add ten more. My figures are 56 Counter Revolutionaries to 62 Marxists. The numbers changed slightly over the last few days as they are still counting ballots in some areas.

Apparently, Obama won by only six million in popular vote. He squeaked into office just like Bush.

Are you ready to backlash? Get ready to rumble in Congress and at local level. I wrote the Republican Party congress members and told them to boot the moderates out of leadership (i.e., anyone who voted for the bailout). We do not want compromisers in leadership. They should not be allowed near a Republican telephone or computer, either. Any Republican who says "reform" or "bi-partisan" automatically gets a cherry belly. Don't forget to call and show your unsupport for liberal Republicans.

As for voters, I'm preparing a series of editorials for the local newspapers. We have to candy coat basic economics principles so the ingrates or uninitiated in freedom issues might accidentally learn something. They are not going to suddenly pick up the "Declaration of Independence," and read it for the first time. But, a lot of them are suddenly looking at newspapers for the first time in their lives.

We need to be there for them when they become disenchanted with The One.

Until then, don't forget to stop payment on the rent or car insurance for any unmarried women or youthful Obama voters in your family!! The exit polls show 70% of unmarried women voted for O. I know exactly who that group is. Tell them to get a second job (like you did) or go stand in line like in Cuba for five hours for their check from Obama and that you are buying gold for your old age. When you are older you will move in with them. What ever we do, we should not reward stupid behavior.
Hannity, I think, did a few man on the street interviews this fall. Some O voters thought Sarah Palin was Obama's VP.

Glad you are keeping the faith.

Chris

I understand that it stems in large part from a culturally-ingrained patriotism and a deep (and admirable) attachment to the vision of the founding fathers for America, but what exactly is the rational objection to the notion that the Constitution is not perfect? Constitutions should be living documents, and politicians should be brave enough to recognise where and when they need updating. The founding fathers were obviously wise and intelligent men, but they weren't all-knowing, and the document they drafted reflected the values, politics and legal environment with which they were familiar. It doesn't seem to me that it should be too controversial to suggest that what they produced was imperfect, particularly when viewed and applied in 2008; in fact, refusing to examine it critically and, where appropriate, propose revisions, strikes me as the worst kind of intellectual poverty/cowardice.

phil

Conservative Cabbie-no not at all,I have realised from way back that you apply common sense and good humour to your views even though I do not agree with all of them .It is of course absolutely legitimate to think of who your next candidate should be ,but the difference is when some here(who I will name)do it in a way to disparage the newly elected president of a nation that they do not even belong to. A president who has not even been given a chance to make good on his words and promises .
A free nation has overwhelmingly approved Sen Obama and whilst you may feel it is the wrong choice and begin to prepare for the next election ,I believe respect should be given to the American people and their president-who has felt joy right round the world except in these threads.

Your words do not offend me but those of verity and frank p (the two backslappers) demean all who might have preferred a Republican win .Their incessant despicable criticism of someone they can know little about sickens me and is continuing in spite of knowing the race is run.-their self approval knows no bounds ,no matter that the world disagrees with them perhaps someone will arrive in their attics and give them a taste of honey instead of the nail biters remedy of bitters -Veronica is a fine example of how to accept the nations choice (not defeat,just choice) Sen Mcain has done just that and I SEE HIM AS A MAN WHO DIDNT LOSE ,JUST DIDNT WIN so I congratulate them both as a true example of how humans should behave .

I have said all along that I found Sen Mcain an admirable man but not in this case fit for purpose ,in fact one whose age and choice of VP had put us in a potentially very dangerous position-Sen Obama was certainly not my original choice ,but I warmed to him and to some of his ideas -no not high taxation and trade restriction-America has said no to the signs "no Blacks ,Jews or Dogs need apply"- they have said no to the dialogue of Donald Rumsfield et al , they are giving an example to those parts of the world who will preclude others because of their skin or religion ,and it wasn't only the great Martin Luther King who had a dream that one day this would happen -I did too.So I applaud their choice and pray that Sen Obama will become a great president of a great nation.

Grumpy

Hey Melanie - wassup.

Israel-kinda agree with you mate-what sort of undercover islamist would pick not one but two Jews (Emmanuel and now David Axelrod the strategist) to work in very close conjunction.
Kinda getting a good feeling about this new lad!

Jill

Israel-kinda agree with you mate-what sort of undercover islamist would pick not one but two Jews (Emmanuel and now David Axelrod the strategist) to work in very close conjunction.
Kinda getting a good feeling about this new lad!
-------------------------

The kind who would support Obama's radical marxist agenda. Emmanuel is a rabid partisan. The choice signaled to the Republicans across the USA that bipartisanship is off the table. The choice means O is governing from the far, far left.

Jim T

You think the US will be radicalised overnight? Or the US has changed dramatically? Don't think so. One black President does not mean Instant Communism people, just get a grip! After 8 years of rather thorough conservative government I suppose a centrist politician would appear like Lenin. Don't Americans remember FDR, JFK or LBJ? Much more radical then Obama ever promises to be, but clearly not communists. LOL!. Indeed these days they are considered Presidential Heroes. Looking at Obama, his most "radical" plans - universal health care and middle income tax cuts - is a policy supported by both sides of politics within the other Anglophonic Western allies of the US (Australia and the UK, for example). A little comparative analysis here would help, no Melanie? Are Australians less "free" due to near universal health care? Is Britain a socialist republic because it taxes the wealthy more than the poor? Honestly, the USA will still be the USA we all know, just a bit more centrist, and frankly judging from Obama, not by much. A centrist America is a good thing.

Jeb, Texas

Simeon, you say: “Islam is not a violent religion.”

Jasmine never said it was.

She just quoted The Koran - and the first thing you wanted to say to that is: “Islam is not a violent religion.”

Go figure.

Grumpy

Jill
Marxist agenda - obviously by that you mean somebody who intends to help out the large group of ordinary wage earners rather than the Texan oil interests and good ole dickless cheney.
As for partianship and 'far far left', lets wait and see shall we. Although some of you uber conservatives could interpret something like a more equitable medical scheme, I'm sure as something hatched in the halls of the old Kremlin.

Jackie

On Melanie Phillips’s post directly below this one, ‘Join The Dots’, someone else pointed out the fears that the Brazilian Olavo de Carvalho has over Obama in his piece ‘The Candidate of Fear‘:

http://www.olavodecarvalho.org/english/articles/081024dc_en.html

and he was sneered at. De Carvalho was described as “out there” by one of the commenters.

Yet via the power of the web on this post we learn just how many other South Americans share de Carvalho’s concerns - and I agree with them.

I was earlier today trying to translate your piece to a friend of mine out here and I think I did OK. They may speak a different language from you out here, Melanie, but one language they desperately understand is that of freedom.

It seems that Melanie Phillips is one of the few commentators in Europe who even understands the fundamentals of freedom. The rest of the chatterers seem to have forgotten what underpins their societies or are just so drunk they‘d rather not understand.

Well, not in South America. There have been and are still so many spiteful left-wing leaders down here who present themselves with the same phonily ‘progressive’ veneer that Obama does that they see straight through him.

Joe Camel

Jill, you see Rahm Emanuel as "a rabid partisan" and conclude that "the choice signaled to the Republicans across the USA [is] that bipartisanship is off the table."

You are clearly much better informed than Lindsey Graham, a Republican senator, who stubbornly refuses to see it your way. In fact he goes so far as to assert in a press release:

"He can be a tough partisan but also understands the need to work together. [. . .} I worked closely with him during the presidential debate negotiations which were completed in record time. When we hit a rough spot, he always looked for a path forward. I consider Rahm to be a friend and colleague. He’s tough but fair. Honest, direct, and candid. [. . .] I look forward to working with him in his new position."
http://lgraham.senate.gov/public/

(Thanks to tim at Harry's Place)

Dixon

My last comment was a footnote to my previous comment. But the previous comment didnt appear. Thus making my last comment open to speculative misinterpretation. Or, at best, unintelligible.

Sorry about that!

Mandy

The most terrifying aspect for the United States and the world is that this man will, right after he is sworn in, have access to the nuclear codes.

Joe Camel

Cabbie, it's news to me that Obama told Hillary "you're likeable enough". He's starting to go up in my estimation already, given that the Rodham must be one of the most dislikeable personalities ever to have contaminated US politics.

Remember when "Stop Hillary" was the neo-cons battle cry? Well, Obama stopped her, didn't he?

Augustus

Freedom Now Stands Alone, and without the press:-

ABC (All Barack Channel), NBC (Nightly Barack Channel), CBS (Covering Barack Seriously), and others; and they all get goose bumps when he speaks. When the Evil Bush is gone, what will they have to talk about? Barack's favourite food? The thoughts of the great leader?

The unification of a subservient press, a socialist president, scary economic times (ironically brought about by the party who has just benefitted from it), and an uncritical electorate, all hold grave implications for liberty. Who will be left to tell the story?

Verity

Simeon says: "Over 50million Americans DO NOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE."

But they have free access to county hospitals, which are roughly on a par with the British NHS, so bugger off. I'm sick of this manipulative whining about health care.

More drool from Simeon: " Islam is not a violent religion." Are you out of your friggin' mind? Have you read the Q'ran?

1. What about the hundreds of "honour killings" of young girls/women who refuse to marry the man (often a drooling knuckle-dragger with a recessive gene from a cave in Pakistan or somewhere) her parents have chosen for her. Don't listen to your daughter! Just solve the problem by killing her. Or sending her overseas to "see relatives" and they will kill her there for you.

2. What about the gruesome mutiliation of the genitals of little girls?

3. Again, at the risk of inducing a giant yawn in those who've read it before: What about the take-over of the US embassy in Teheran, with extreme violence against people who are protected by international agreements - embassy personnel - and holding it for a year? What about bombing the Israeli embassy in Bueones Aires? What about driving a truck loaded with explosives into the US Marine barracks in the dead of night and murdering more than 200 sleeping Marines? What about the first attempt on the WTC? What about the murder and mayhem in the train station in Madrid? What about the killings and maimings on London Transport? What about the killings and maimings of young people on an evening out in Bali? What about the dim-witted attempt on Glasgow Airport where a truck loaded with explosives was stopped at the entrance by bollards, duh?You dismiss the 3,000 who died in the second WTC attempt. What about the public hanging of homosexuals because they happened to have been born gay? What about burying women who are suspected of committing adultery in the sand up to their necks and indulging in the sport of stoning them to death? "Har, har, har! Looks like I broke her nose! Mint tea all round!"

Bob in Obamination: "the media decides after it's far too late to unjump into the abyss." Brilliant phrase! In fact, your whole post was most readable.

Frank P - Thanks for Protein Wisdom. I will go there this morning.

Again, this blog was designed by website designers who cannot use joined-up writing. It's how it looks that counts for them because they are largely illiterate about anything outside html.

If Melanie is to get over 200 comments, asking posters to waste their time scrolling back and forth, often several times as they check back whata fellow poster wrote, is too juvenile. Someone needs to order these people to change the design of this page by putting the comment box, as in every other publication in the world, at the bottom of the page after the most recent comments.

Cathy

Derek - Thanks for the Ditto.

Jill - Thanks for the inspriration. I second you on pressing our congressmen and women to not only strengthen our party, but also to follow the direction of We the People in Washington.

I also like your idea of writing editorials, and my copycat you on that one.

I am mad as hell, but how I feel is not important.

What I am going to DO ABOUT IT is.

Barackobama

Sarah Palin is a bad representative of the conservative case who will, if allowed to pursue her impulses and encouraged by opportunistic political hacks, undermine support for the cause she ostensibly champions. Conservatism is intuitively compelling to practically everyone with a mature mind. But it has to be supported with an interest in learning as well. Palin’s ignorance reflects the fact that for most of her life she was a member of a millenarian cult that restricts teaching to what is in the bible, and a highly distorted interpretation of the Holy Book at that. This approach has no historical basis in Christianity (or Judaism) where engagement with the world has been a cornerstone. There is nothing in Christianity that suggests you should retreat to Alaska to avoid the flood you expect to signal the end of times and other ideas pedaled by the cult she was raised in. Palin’s mental formation and a view of the world skewed by decades of anti-intellectual teaching is dangerous to the future of conservatism in the US. This requires conservative politicians with an educated view of the world as well as a high degree of personal integrity (which Palin seems to have in great amounts). The last thing it needs is disciples of anti-thought post-Christian fads that have gathered up millions of followers, mainly from the ranks of the millions failed by the US education system. People like that repel the conservative majority. And they make conservatives look as hapless as Palin did practically ever time she uttered an unscripted word.

Verity

Augustus writes: "ABC (All Barack Channel), NBC (Nightly Barack Channel), CBS (Covering Barack Seriously), and others; and they all get goose bumps when he speaks."

What about that fool newsman who said he "feel a tingle up my leg when Obama speaks". He is still all of a tingle? Has the tingle subsided? Has it migrated further up his leg? Inquiring minds want to know!

derek

You know what's funny -

The comments section has turned into an debate between the radical-minded who think Obama is too radical, and the moderate and level-headed who think Obama is moderate and level-headed.

Dave M

I don't think Obama will be anything like as bad as Conservatives imagine and he may turn out to be a competent President. What worries me more is something Maggie Thatcher once referred to, namely that America is losing its European/Anglo identity. Not that Obama himself doesn't hold western liberal values but in the future there may be other presidents who will be of a different mentality. Basically, Obama was voted in by a strong block of African American and Hispanic voters. In a couple more decades the Hispanic voting block or immigrant voting block will possibly make the Republicans obsolete. My argument against multiculturalism and liberal immigration has always been based on what we see in the U.S. today, comparing that to the Roman experience. Essentially the Romans did lose their national identity and values that made then a world power because they embraced multiculturalism and winded up with many ethnically diverse emperors. Some of these were good ones (as I believe Obama will be) but others introduced religions and values that undermined the entire social structure. If you don't have single national identity and set of tried and tested values that unite that society, the whole edifice will come crumbling down. The more diverse America becomes, the weaker it's going to be in the final analysis.Indeed, today, America reminds me of Rome in 200 A.D. when Rome was on the verge of collapse but somehow managed to stay afloat and delay the final fall.

Karl M

Wow. Are we on the same planet!?

Obama's election means the Bush-clone McCain doesn't get to wreak further devastation on the world in the name of 'America', and there is more hope for all of us.

I was surprised by a transformation of feeling towards America almost overnight as a result of Obama's election. He may or may not deliver a better America, and a better world, but he's got a far better chance of succeeding in those aims than McCain would have had.

I continue to await the day that Melanie says something that makes _any_ sense to me...

John Birch

Conservative Cabbie: Obama did not "flip the bird" to Clinton and McCain. Watch the video of both instead of relying on a still posted by Drudge on his website. Btw, one of the big losers of this election has been Matt Drudge who was touting a tightening of polls by cherry picking ones that served his own agenda. As for the "sweetie" comment, he personally rang the reporter the next day and apologized.

phil

The fragrant one says"What about that fool newsman who said he "feel a tingle up my leg when Obama speaks". He is still all of a tingle? Has the tingle subsided? Has it migrated further up his leg? Inquiring minds want to know"

OBVIOUSLY CANT INCLUDE HER THEN
oh boy at least every so often she does amuse me. come on verity send me an insult .I,m beginning to think you don't care-I will send you one of those M+S 10 pound dinners for two as a thank you ,maybe you will share it with frank p.--don't worry no southern fried chicken and black eyed peas .

with all these gifts frank might even honour his promise to comment on my choice of CHURCHILL on the content thread -well ok I know you don't read my more serious stuff -now there,s a chance for an insult.:)
This really is fun after an unpleasant few months

phil

Derek you are far to sensible for this thread and any number that have preceded it.We plough a lonely furrow but I sleep at night especially when I think of all the unfortunate people who will benefit from this momentous week.
.The other consolation is that every other place I read on this subject ,joy prevails-and so much of it from people normally right of centre like me .My hero Melanie has been having a lot of bad hair days these last few months (she has really lost me on this subject) so I hope we can all get back to reality now and may her good sense revisit us very soon .
As it is nearly my birthday may I have a wish that the fragrant one nods off into the M+ S free moussaka that I have offered to treat her to,she may well find her darling frank under the béchamel sauce -oh lovely day
-best regards to one of the few sane posters here recently .

An American's Husband

chris
our constitution is a living document. the founders recognized it was imperfect and added a method to change it. the amendment process has been used 27 times. most of these changes were good: bill of rights, universal suffarage, etc. a few were bad: allowing income to be taxed. but the amendment process is difficult to avoid capricious tinkering and the founders never imagined that judges in robes would mold our constitution to fit their own personal views

Mary from Illinois, USA

To Simeon Collins (11/6): You are correct Obama is not a socialist--he is a communist! Your rhetoric is so freshman (naive). You should be so proud of yourself for the ability to spout the leftist garbage--you bought it hook line and sinker, Comrade!

Simeon

Jeb, Texas

You need to re-read what Jasmine wrote. her assertion that Obama could not end the war without being able to 'change the Qu'ran' implies that the Qu'ran preaches war and is in effect violent, thus justifying my introduction of 'Islam is not a violent religion'...

manfromlaramie

Hate to break it to you Mel, but the last bastion of freedom to which you refer is surrounded by a 20ft security fence, together with a large slice of another country.

Hysteria

@ Verity - agree the comments about the website build - we need to move to a chat environment - perhaps with some logon security thingy - the present system is no lnger fit for purpose espcially as there is an increasing contribution level from outide the UK time-zone.

This is leading to some disjointed comments, missing posts and so on.

But do we hear any feedback from the moderators or the Spectator - ?? Nope

Hysteria

oh - and where is Melanie?

derek

Sue,
If you really think FOX NEWS has a liberal bias (or is a member of the "liberal media elite" I've heard about during this campaign season) you have a very distorted view of the world and ideologies.

Bob in Obamination

"Islam is not a violent religion. september 11th was truly a tragedy."

Laughing out loud. Anything that follows that bit is wasted energy Simeon. Read an effing book. Paul Fregosi's "Jihad" would be a pretty good starting spot.

fellow traveller

Jackie: "They may speak a different language from you out here, Melanie, but one language they desperately understand is that of freedom."

I too have some experience of Brazil Jackie, and one thing I know for sure is that de Carvalho does not reflect mainstream Brazilian opinion. His arch-enemy, president Lula, now has popularity ratings nudging 80 per cent - and not surprising, considering that he has finally done something practical to help narrow the gap between rich and poor that is a scandal in a nation potentially as prosperous as Brazil.

de Carvalho's lazy anti-Marxist scaremongering might be all the rage with Sao Paulo's cocktail party set, but if he had any respect for democracy, he'd put a sock in it.

(PS this blog swallowed my last comment on de Carvalho's allegations about Obama: if you want the true story about why anarchists targeted the RNC, just go to their web site to find out it was 1. Because that's where they lived, and 2. They specifically say they hate the Democrats just as much, but democrats weren't in power. It seems your philosopher's research didn't actually extend to much more than exaggerating a news story for credulous people who were unlikely to read the truth in English)

rinpoche

So in the end you did think it was a "joke Republican ticket consisting of an erratic old man and a brainless, wacko, gun-toting beauty queen" after all?

Regrading Obama's comments in terms, the US constitution is happily not set in stone (mutton chops whatever) and is amended from time: the terms were a somewhat obscure and academic radio debate some years ago, the civil rights movement and the amendments to that constitution they have secured.

Similarly your last two paragraphs are so absurdly over-stated as not worth further notice.

However something has to be done about Iran's nuclear ambitions quite soon and I for one will not raise my hands in outrage should Israel pre-empt the issue in the coming few weeks (the irony of course is that they will be obliged to use tactical nuclear weapons).

Failing that the United States has time enough to engage in direct presidential diplomacy with Iran as Obama wants to try: 'jaw jaw' thus and who was it advocated that?

Pete Hoskin

Verity and all other calling for a comments box at the bottom of the page: your request duly noted. I can't make a unilateral decision, but I'll discuss it with folk in the office. Will keep you all updated.

Frank Pulley

Try this on for size:

http://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2008/11/rahm-emanuel-was-on-freddie-mac-board.html

And so the pieces fall continue to into place.

h/t Dan Collins at Protein Wisdom (Pub)

http://proteinwisdom.com/pub/?p=2343#comment-101199

Verity

My post dated 2:12pm, beginning Simeon says: "Over 50million Americans DO NOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE." ... has only just been posted, having apparently been lost and since superceded by later posts. Anyone who is interested can scrawl up four or five posts.

What they do at The Speccie, is, they lose posts for hours on end, in the meantime continuing to post other contributions. When the missing post is finally found, rather than stick it on the end as the latest to be posted, they stick it in what would have been the correct time slot.

This is so absurd it beggars description, but it is consonant with the placement of the Comments box at the top of the thread.

Frank P - Very entertaining posts on Protein Wisdom. Many thanks!

Sue

Cathy: Dittos to you!

Bob in Obomination: Yeah, I’d say that the wave of “Uh Ohs” will soon echo across America like a vast moan as half the nation ‘comes to’.

Derrick wrote: “But somehow Obama had the endorsement of the most Nobel Prize winners of any presidential candidate ever. You're right...those guys must not think about what they are doing.”
Just because someone wins a Nobel prize, it doesn’t mean they’re anything more than someone admired by the Nobel prize commitee. Don’t hold such “prize winners” up as proof that whomever or whatever they endorse has the ‘smartified seal of approval’ and is therefore a good thing. Did you also vote for Obama because Oprah and other Hollywood elites endorsed him? Be banished!
Jill, Kudos and Dittos on your well reasoned plan to work for the ‘re-conservatization’ of the Republican party.

Grumpy said, “some of you uber conservatives could interpret something like a more equitable medical scheme, I'm sure as something hatched in the halls of the old Kremlin.”

It will never happen. It’s a promise that’s trotted out every election, but never achieved.
When Clinton hit the White House it was Hillary’s “mission” to provide healthcare for everyone. Nothing else was mentioned after a year or so. It’s a smoke and mirrors promise.

Jill...great plan for helping to re-conservatize the Republican party!! Kudos

Oh, and those who want to fuse about the comment box location. You're just being silly. Is it too much effort to scroll up the page using the bar on the right of the page?!

American Voter

Verity: You are quite correct about the prehistoric manner of this blogsite and let's not even go into the lack of linked links... Perhaps we should take up a collection to send some poor soul at the Speccie on a Computer course.

Meanwhile, to Joe Camel: Rahm Emmanuel served on the Board of Directors of Freddie Mac when alarm bells were first beginning to ring but did nothing. His appointment by Obama as "Chief of Staff" indicates both his own stupidity and the contempt in which he holds the American public coupled with his assurance that Old Media will protect his butt in this as in everything else. First signs of defection from the ranks of the All Admiring, All Adoring:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6201900&page=1

Augustus

Ahmadinejad has congratulated Obama, and that, folks, is bad news. Not since 1979 has an Iranian leader congratulated the winner of an American presidential election. as Obama has intimated that he will sit down with all dictators he has already squandered his trump card. America has voted in a Chamberlain while a second Reagan was what was needed. And to think that there are even people who find it stange that Putin now aims rockets at Poland.

Biden was right on one point, Obama will be tested and they (the dictators) will pull out all the stops. I wish the free world every success, but Chavez, Putin, Ahmadinejad, and Castro, couldn't be happier now there's no imminent danger from the US.

Dixon

The insanity begins:
According to Obamas own web-site, he intemds to introduce compulsory community service for all age groups from the cradle to the grave:

"The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start."

Verity

Just as a point of interest, The Telegraph is running NINE fawning articles on Obama on its formerly highly respected editorial page.

Brennen Bearnes

"But they have free access to county hospitals, which are roughly on a par with the British NHS, so bugger off. I'm sick of this manipulative whining about health care."

Myself, I'm a bit weary of people making stuff up.

Rob

Melanie, you get madder and madder. So Obama may believe that divided, unequal and, to much of the world, hated America can change for the better, that health reform is imperative, that the war on terror hasn't worked, that cowboy capitalism actually doesn't work and makes the world less secure, you believe that this makes him "dangerous"?

No, it is neocons who couldn't tell the difference between secular Saddam and the Saudi regime, rightwingers who privatise profit and socialise costs, and losses and have screwed America's and Britain's economies, and who, above all hate and fear things that are dangerous. People like you, in fact

Liberal

The thrust of Melanie Philips' article is that the election of Barack Obama means the probable end of liberal democracy in the USA and the collapse of the West.The evidence for this wide ranging assertion is somewhat tenuous.However,I would agree the western world is in serious danger of[ economic] disintegration.The evidence for this is not tenuous,it is overwhelming.It is only necessary to read the business pages of centre-right newspapers to see the despair.I believe this is something to do with uncontrolled speculation in the financial world which turned out to be much more dangerous than terrorism or a few Trotskyites in the educational system.People on the right in the UK and USA did not notice the damage done by the enemy within.Anyway,a black US president has arrived---a cause for celebration given the history of the United States.

Conservative Cabbie

Verity

That fool newsman was chris Matthews of MSNBC. He is now saying that it is his DUTY to help Barack Obama be a good President. Funny, somehow I doubt he felt any such duty during Bush's eight years.

I love America, but sometimes (like the las year), I despair at the quality of journalism over there, they have been negligent in their vetting of Obama.

Jim

I will believe in Mr. Obama when he stands up before the world and explains why he attended a racist church for 20years, why his Aunt lives in a slum while he lives in a million $$ mansion "redistribute some wealth", provides a certified copy of his birth certificate, why did his wife receive an abusrd salary increase and then her employer a $$ million $$ funding grant approved by him, why did he receive the largest donations from freddie and fannie mac corps.,why did he say mobster Rezco only donated 15 THOUSAND when it was alot more. Mr Obama has not shown he posseses good character. Synonym of Fiber Honesty Integrity Principle. However the populist vote has spoken and now we will all see if he keeps his promises he made to the masses.

Jill

How do you define radical and moderate, Derek?

Jessica Hulcy

I just found you on the world wide web while attempting to find honest journalism to use as an example as I teach homeschooling moms in the US how to teach their tots about honesty/dishonest journalism. You're writing is a breath of fresh air about to be introduced to elementary and junior high homeschool kids as an example of one who articulates truth. Nice to meet you. Please keep up the excellent work.

Barry H

The poster who calls themself “Israel” at November 7th, 2008 11:07am asks:

“Is Melanie okay?

“From one or two posts a day to now nothing?”

True to form, this poster has trouble with facts. Melanie has penned a whole essay for the National Review on the Obama victory, ‘Preventing National Suicide’, which the rest of us have already read by clicking on the link at the right of her page at her site.

They don’t call these people ‘sleepwalkers’ for nothing. If you can't see it, here it is:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjljMGU3ODc0YzcxMDkxYTlkYWQwOWY2NDMyZDVlYTY=

Verity points out many of the legion flaws in the argument for state-funded healthcare and she is right. The charity-funded hospital care in the US means that at least people can see where the money goes.

The state-funded NHS has tried to ‘live the dream’ but in reality it is just a bottomless pit for taxpayers‘ money.

We don’t just pay for British residents, we also pay for people to come from every corner of the world to come and get ‘free’ healthcare. Of course, it’s not free at all. We pay for it - and they don‘t.

You set up a state-funded system like ours and you’ll get taken for a ride, just like we are. It’s not like the Michael Moore film on the subject, really.

What I find so weird about the campaign has been the emphasis on Obama’s colour. It feels as if it has been exploited as a sort of forcefield from any criticism from all of his radical associations. Ask a question about anti-white racist Jeremiah Wright et al and up comes the cry: “racist”.

Would this have happened had it not been for all the Jeremiah Wrightesque baggage he brings with him? That and the Harvard background has been airbrushed out for a ‘poor me’ story. The man isn't even descended from slaves.

I somehow doubt race would have been in the foreground in the way it has if the candidate had been Colin Powell. I agree with Richard Littlejohn. It’s a shame his wife stopped him from running a few years back.

By the way, I am told Olavo de Carvalho presently resides in the US but broadcasts into Brazil (in Portuguese) via the net.

He also has a book that has a peculiarly pertinent title given what the American electorate has just done.

It‘s called ‘The Collective Imbecile’.

Conservative Cabbie

Phil

I'm not going to speak as to how others react to Obama, only for myself. I'm never going to grow to like him politically, we stand at opposite ends of the political spectrum.

Having said that, I take the view that now the election has finished, I will judge him purely on his decisions and his actions.

Interesting you talk about the race issue, that is clearly one of the most positive aspects of this. I saw an interesting point online about this, namely to what extent did George Bush apponting two African-American Secretaries of State (Powell and Rice) show the american people that black figures of authority are perfectly acceptable and thus pave the way for their acceptance of Obama. Whatever people who dislike Bush think of him, the one thing they cannot accuse him of was racism.

Finally, the one inconsistency in liberal condemnation of those who criticise Obama, how is it different to the vitriolic attacks on Bush that we've witnessed over the last eight years? I'm not going to speak for you, but we've hardly been witness to a spirit of bi-partisanship from the left or respect for the decisions of the American people in the past.

The one thing we can agree on, America is a great nation - I'm sure that in four or eight years time, it will still be so.

Madmel

"The most terrifying aspect for the United States and the world is that this man will, right after he is sworn in, have access to the nuclear codes."

Yes. We should have given them to Sarah Palin.

Rob-NY

"No longer the land of the free and the home of the brave; they must now look elsewhere"

And where would that be?

Jill

Jill, you see Rahm Emanuel as "a rabid partisan" and conclude that "the choice signaled to the Republicans across the USA [is] that bipartisanship is off the table."

You are clearly much better informed than Lindsey Graham, a Republican senator, who stubbornly refuses to see it your way. In fact he goes so far as to assert in a press release:

"He can be a tough partisan but also understands the need to work together. [. . .} I worked closely with him during the presidential debate negotiations which were completed in record time. When we hit a rough spot, he always looked for a path forward. I consider Rahm to be a friend and colleague. He’s tough but fair. Honest, direct, and candid. [. . .] I look forward to working with him in his new position."
http://lgraham.senate.gov/public/

(Thanks to tim at Harry's Place)
------------------------------

You're right. I should have said, "Conservatives" instead of "Republicans." Thanks for the heads up on Graham. Voters need a reminder who the sell-outs to conservative principles are. The guy Emanuel was Clinton's henchman during the Bimbo explosions. I found some extra information for ya:

"As chairman of the party caucus he is officially the fourth-most powerful Democrat but his reputation might even be larger than some more important Democrats. Many see the Chicagoan as intensely partisan and the Republicans have attacked Obama for his choice.

From Politico:

Republican National Committee spokesman Alex Conant issued a statement calling Emanuel "a partisan insider" and referring to him by his nickname of "Rahmbo": "Barack Obama's first decision as president-elect undermines his promise to 'heal the divides." The RNC started a new series called "Obama's Broken Promise," starting with the naming of "Hyperpartisan" Emanuel.
Our friends of the New Republic have another interesting nickname for Emanuel, "the Tony Soprano" of Congress. The LA Times paints a picture of Emanuel as a fiery but effective political operator:

Along the way, Emanuel earned a reputation for a colorful intensity unusual even in the hard-hitting world of politics. His profanity is legendary and seems designed in part to throw his interlocutors off-balance.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2008/11/06/206117.aspx
END QUOTE

Those quotes are pretty mild and kind. He's a Chicago thug politician.

There's a story about him slamming a steak knife into a table repeatedly naming off the names of his enemies: "So and so," stab the table, "Dead!" "So and so," stab the table, "Dead!" He had a whole list of liberal "traitors" and Republicans. There's another famous quote when he says, "F the Republicans!" He has a foul mouth and is full of revenge. But other than that, he's a real nice man. Good choice!

Jill

Grumpy wrote: Jill
Marxist agenda - obviously by that you mean somebody who intends to help out the large group of ordinary wage earners rather than the Texan oil interests and good ole dickless cheney.
As for partianship and 'far far left', lets wait and see shall we. Although some of you uber conservatives could interpret something like a more equitable medical scheme, I'm sure as something hatched in the halls of the old Kremlin.
---------------------------

Then we understand each other perfectly, Grumpy.

"The characteristic feature of modern capitalism is mass production of goods destined for consumption by the masses. The result is a tendency toward a continuous improvement in the average standard of living, a progressing enrichment of the many. Capitalism deproletarianizes the "common man" and elevates him in the rank of a "bourgeois." [...]

"those shops and plants which cater exclusively or predominantly to the wealthier citizens' demand for refined luxuries play merely a subordinate role in the economic setting of the market economy. They never attain the size of big business. Big business always serves--directly or indirectly--the masses.

[...]

"They are the customers who are "always right," the patrons who have the power to make poor suppliers rich and rich suppliers poor."

[...]

The profit system makes those men prosper who have succeeded in filling the wants of the people in the best possible and cheapest way. Wealth can be acquired only by serving the consumers."

[...]

"the control of the material means of production is a social function, subject to the confirmation or revocation by the sovereign consumers."

Ludwig von Mises

hadrian

What horrifies me is the quasi divine status that's been so extravagently afforded Obama by a nation that traditionally is much less fixated on the potency of politics and State power. His gradiloquence and the virtually hysterical responses it called forth would be laughable if not so frightening. If it's true that many younger Americans have succumbed to this crypto socialist claptrap then the free world certainly is done for. It's what conservative theologian, R.J. Rushdoony has dubbed 'the politics of guilt and pity.' Alas, guilt for quite the wrong things, and pity extended to quite the wrong people or in such a negligent manner it can never properly ameliorate.
Still, for all that, one has to hope against hope the inflated expectations will not disappoint too deeply and common sense will prevail.
As for the colour of the man's skin it surely is entirely irrelevant though it does gainsay the charges of racialism often levelled against the States( and not without reason in the past.)

Jill

Somebody wrote this: (Sorry, lost the post!) I understand that it stems in large part from a culturally-ingrained patriotism and a deep (and admirable) attachment to the vision of the founding fathers for America, but what exactly is the rational objection to the notion that the Constitution is not perfect? Constitutions should be living documents, and politicians should be brave enough to recognise where and when they need updating. The founding fathers were obviously wise and intelligent men, but they weren't all-knowing, and the document they drafted reflected the values, politics and legal environment with which they were familiar. It doesn't seem to me that it should be too controversial to suggest that what they produced was imperfect, particularly when viewed and applied in 2008; in fact, refusing to examine it critically and, where appropriate, propose revisions, strikes me as the worst kind of intellectual poverty/cowardice.
---------------------------

Jill writes: Culturally ingrained? intellectually impoverished? Not rational? Founders might be w…r…o…n…g? We were born from rationalism…natural law...ok…I'm pretending you are not from the USA to prevent my heart from palpitating. Yes, you are not from the USA because I see you misspelled a few words. ;)

If you were from America, I wanted you do something in your car at the next ridiculous and useless STOP sign that you came to. I would want you to STOP completely. Exaggerate your law and order skills with a full complete STOP. Recite the pledge of allegiance ten times before proceeding. This would be your penance.

Now, some of the founders did not want the Constitution. They were happy with the previous document that was a loose confederacy in imitation of the Iroquois nation. The critics (ex: Patrick Henry) feared that if you write specific rights on paper, that politicians, like Obama, will think those are the only rights from God that exist. The government would assume the power to grant those rights that are not specifically enumerated.

However, the US Constitution won because of the need to limit the power of the government because any government will naturally assume power whether you name rights or not. They gave the people a fighting chance when they constrained government’s boundaries.

I'm not sure what else you mean. If the founders are wrong, it means we have no rights or that the rights come from government. What the liberals, including Obama, wants is to replace "inalienable" with "federal government." A change like that cancels out all of our rights, essentially overthrowing our government and overthrowing the American Revolution. This is why I have fought Obama so hard.

If the gov't has the power to give you a right, they have the power to take it away. If you give them power to, say, establish English as the national language, then they have the power to forbid English. Those decisions are made at the state and local level.

Whatever is not specifically stated for the federal gov't to do, is given to the states, known in the US Constitution as ‘the people.’ The closer the seat of government is to the people the more control they have over it. If Obama gets his way, he usurps our sovereign rule.

Obama and the Marxists are more than welcomed to create a town or even a state; they can name him as king and establish communism. It's been tried before in the USA. Every community like that has failed, though, just as any nation fails if they go that way. If a town or state wants to legalize homosexual marriage and mandate that every woman should have five abortions, they are free to do it. The problem comes when Vermont wants to tell Georgia to adopt Vermont’s laws. In other words, one town, region or state cannot usurp the sovereign rule of another. People in a state or community that want things the rest of the population does not want are free to leave and establish a place they like. They have constitutional freedom to do it.

It makes sense for people in Miami to declare Spanish as the official city language, but it makes no sense if the Feds tell everyone in the United States that they must speak Spanish. If they change laws at the national level, it runs over the rights of every other community in the nation. This is the battle with abortion as a national issue, along with the use of federal taxpayer funds. The Amish don't want to finance abortions in NYC.

The answer is go back to the US Constitution that gives unnamed rights to the states (in one of the clauses); let the states (aka towns, communities, the people) decide for themselves instead of a special interest group housed in a commune in Vermont. (I usually pick on California, but they voted to preserve marriage. Vermont is my second choice.)

I'm not a lawyer, but I know where my rights come from. It's more important to know where the rights come from than to be able to name them. It means I recognize a threat to my freedom when someone like Obama opens his mouth.

I don't know if I answered your q.

FYI: Socialism/Liberalism/Communism are a gutless choices and intellectually bankrupt. oh, I know, entire industries are built around them. But, if you deconstruct, say, a Raymond Carver short story, it always points to personal responsibility. Reality is the final check and balance.

Jill

jdona writes: "the Republicans are not weasels..."

the Republicans are not weasels....

the Republicans are not weasels
-------------------------

hahahahaaa I agree with your Jdona, it's just this one line is making me laugh. Did you hear about that lady jogger who ran a mile with a rabid fox on her arm?

God Bless the Republican Party. :) They need us.

Jill

Quote from radio blog:

...Ahead of a widely-expected crackdown on free speech and political dissent by the incoming Obama administration, our Dear Leader has appointed a new FCC transition czar to oversee the process.

Henry Rivera, a longtime radical leftist, lawyer and former FCC commissioner, is expected to lead the push to dismantle commercial talk radio that is favored by a number of Democratic Party senators. Rivera will play a pivotal role in preventing critics from having a public voice during Obama's tenure in office.

Rivera, who resigned from the FCC nearly a quarter-century ago during the Reagan years, believes in a doctrine of "communications policy as a civil rights issue".

His exit during the Reagan Administration paved the way for the Fairness Doctrine's repeal when the late president appointed Patricia Diaz Dennis in 1986 to fill out the rest of Rivera's term. Had this not occurred, talk radio as we know it today would not exist.

That gives Rivera's new task a great deal of personal urgency: it's a late-career, second chance opportunity to shut down opposition voices that have been allowed to flourish since his depature from the commission...

------------------------

ok people, here we go...the first wave...This is what Melanie is telling you.

There are about five thousand talk radio shows nationwide.

The above quote is from a radio blogger:

http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2008/11/obama-appoints-radical-media-activist.html

There is some concern the new czar will include the internet. I personally doubt they will touch cable because of too many liberals on cable. Liberals tried talk radio but nobody listened to them. They had to work off grants and then still couldn't make it. I heard two Dems in interviews that do not agree with a Fairness Doctrine, but they are not leaders of The Officially Approved Party.

Frank P

Where are you, you idle sods? In your bunkers trying, like me, to escape the miasma of BO that has pervaded Planet Earth? Or just recovering from jet lag, harmful substances and eurphoria?

Israel

Jill:

"The kind who would support Obama's radical marxist agenda. Emmanuel is a rabid partisan. The choice signaled to the Republicans across the USA that bipartisanship is off the table. The choice means O is governing from the far, far left."

Eight years of the Bush administration, six years of a republican senate and house under the rubber stamp rule of Tom Delay and NOW people are supposedly worried about bipartizanship?

My god what a bunch of WATB's. The republicans and bush have been the best example of the Midas touch in reverse. Everything these people have toched has turned to moose droppings, and all McCain could offer was more of the same AND THE PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT IT. Maybe if the republicans hadn't done such a p***poor job these last eight years more people in the US and around the world would be backing their position. Maybe if they hadn't treated traditional allies in such a sneering dismissive way they would be looking at a world where they would be respected. What, do you really think that any neo-con will be able to spout their usual rubbish now they have been repudiated and exposed for what they are, flat track bullys but without the gang behind them backing them up. The circular firing squad has started with the fiscal cons going up against the extreame christianists to see who will get control. It's going to be fun, and l for one will be watching with a big tub of popcorn.

Stephanie H

Melanie Phillips used to write rational articles for the Observer. Is this the same woman? Surely that Melanie Phillips would not have written the extraordinary article posted in September saying that a 'star was born' (Sarah Palin). Or was Ms Phillips writing it while sitting on her London porch, all the time insisting that she could see America? Time to return to school Ms Phillips and discover the art of rational debate. You have forgotten how to look at the bigger picture.

Jill

Hi Slack Alice,

Question: Which Corrupt Collectivist said it?:

"It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, All Americans between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service. ...

Here's how it would work. Young people will know that between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five, the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service. They'll be asked to report for three months of basic civil defense training in their state or community, where they will learn what to do in the event of biochemical, nuclear or conventional attack; how to assist others in an evacuation; how to respond when a levee breaks or we're hit by a natural disaster. These young people will be available to address their communities' most pressing needs.
Emanuel and co-author Bruce Reed insist "this is not a draft," but go on to write of young men and women, "the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service." They also warn, "[s]ome Republicans will squeal about individual freedom," ruling out any likelihood that they would let people opt out of universal citizen service.

As chief of staff, Emanuel will not be in a position to directly introduce public policy, but his enthusiasm for compulsory service, combined with Barack Obama's own plan to require high school students to perform 50 hours of government-approved service, suggest an unfortunate direction for the new administration."

Answer: Rep. Rahm Emanuel wants to force people 18 to 25 to labor for the government.

Should also fit well with Obama's call for a "National Civilian Security Force." You know, young people with guns checking old people's garbage for environmental crimes while terrorists run free.

Republicans will be busy next year.

Sue

Barackobama,
Since you don't do us the favor of proclaiming your church affiliation here, I can only assume that you have been taught some sort of a preterist view of the Revelation.

It is quite unfair to proclaim yourself educated and enlightened and mock Sarah Palin, and proclaim that she is in a millennia cult. There are more scriptural references to support a futurist view of eschatology, than a preterist view. Especially when reading and interpreting the scriptures literally.

Sarah Palin's church hardly qualifies as a CULT. They have practically the same statement of faith as most fundamental evangelical denominations. Especially regarding the most important aspect, and that being the way of salvation. Where they differ from most is a belief that miracles and signs are working today through the Holy Spirit, just as they did at the time of the apostles. So at her core, Sarah Palin is a biblical Christian, influenced, instructed and spiritually nourished in the Word of God. The world view of most evangelicals is considered “out there” by the world, because atheists and hedonists don’t see the world through the lens of Christianity and the Word of God. They don’t interpret world events based on prophesies of the last days in Scripture.

Read Melanie’s commentary for October 16 and you’ll understand the real problem that the world has with Sarah Palin, or any like-minded conservative. Ironic, in that it is precisely our faith, which establishes within us the conservative ideals and values that have been a hallmark of the Republican party.

Carolyn

The change McCain purported was in the corrupt culture of Washington.Obama led the charge to embed it further.Don't forget, only 47% voted for him not 51%.The press, whom he treated poorly and actively went after during the campaign
in various ways counter to our Freedom of Speech, morphed into a propaganda arm of his campaign negating to vet him.Thus, we have no idea of who Obama really is .We do know he has a cadre of associates who are some of the most nefarious characters possible.
Obama actually broke the campaign laws and has been given a pass.He exposed the element of Black Liberation hate of which most Whites were unaware.
The 50 plus millions who voted for McCain will not stand still,
especially, to have the 2nd Amendment nullified.They will take up their arms, first, and
Obama is playing with fire.
He was not disciplined on message. He changed it as the wind blew, and was not clear until a citizen, who came to be known as Joe the Plumber, asked him a question and he did not know the mics were open.That is when it was outed he planned to redistribute wealth.In fact, his original promise to take the limited campaign money from the government was dropped opening the computer for massive fraud and illegal contributions.His message of unity evolved to be a wedge between economic classes, pitting the Middle Class against
the wealthy.The first net amount to have proposed tax hikes earned $250K, then, $200K, so that by the end of the campaign it was $120K, or $150K.He is out to destroy the American Dream.That is what he attacked. His concepts and strategy used the Saul Alinsky playbook, "Rules for Radicals."
His allegiances of at least twenty years, were thrown under the bus when they became political liabilities.
Have no illusion, America has its supreme meglomaniac tyrant.His wife Michelle is his primary adviser.Watch her. These people are driven by Hate,
dual loyalties, anti_Semitism, anti-White motivations.He is tied in with Arab leaders, criminals, hate mongers and practitioners, and Wm. Ayres, an admitted homegrown terrorist.
Together they could constitute
a psyche ward. America has been very, very good to these people.They simply prefer to hold down their Black followers,
function with the notion the ends justify the means, and control by intimidation. Hitler's societal structure is
his example.That will become very clear in short order.He hasn't a conscience.
The Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, will deliver Obama's submitted legislation.
It will be interesting to see how many in Congress, and for how long,will
fall into lock step with her.
The Republicans became inept in countering the Dem.s' lies.Thus, the Republicans are being blamed for what the Democrats did, in reality.Obama and Michelle are Affirmmative Action beneficiaries.This economic mess Bush tried no less than 25 times to correct and was overruled by the Leftist
Dems, falls right in Clinton's lap.
Do read Thomas Sowell's pre-election campaign columns
at National Review ( NRO.com).
In closing, Martin Luther King,Jr.was a Republican and never would have voted for Obama.Justice Thurgood Marshall
in his brief, or argument, for the Brown vs. Board of Education at the US Supreme Court warned of tyranny by the minority.

Joe Camel

Frank P (today at 1:19 a.m.), could I be one of the idle sods you have in mind? The election is over. My side lost it.

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/issuecartoons/2008/11/10/cartoons_20081103?slide=6#showHeader

A new game has started now, with different rules and a different scoring system, calling for different tactics. But we’re still playing to win.

AspenUSMC

I don't think anyone can make too much of Obama's past associations...mostly because they are NOT left behind him in his youth where many of us indulge in emotionally driven pursuits that the rational and sobering responsibilities of adulthood bring us away from.

No.

Obama has relationships TODAY with Ayers, Khalidi, Rezko, and Wright. A terrorist bomber who sympathizes with Soviet-brand communism, an anti-Jew activist with tenuous ties to the PLO, a mobster that helped him buy his palatial home by shady methods, and an anti-white, anti-American bigot who hides himself behind a pulpit.

I'm sorry, sir, but his "past" associations cannot be made too much of...because they are not in the past. They are here in his daily life...today.

Emmet

One man who will be celebrating is of course Osama Bin Laden, who can now expect a return to the appeasement and cowardice of the Clinton era. Who knows, the new Democratic admin might even give him a pension. Certainly Bin Laden can now reasonably expect to live to a ripe old age - just so long as Bush doesn't get him in the last few weeks of his tenure. (Note too, Al Qaida has actaully welcomed the new president - though this has not, of course, been reported by the mainstream media).

Conservative Cabbie

Israel

On partisanship, I'm afraid you're missing the point. Obama campaigned as a post-partisan candidate, it was part of his "change" mantra. Therefore, by appointing a very partisan CoS, with his first act he's going back on his promises. And with his second act, it now appears that his much vaunted tax policy might be off the table. Four days and he's in full reverse.

Conservative Cabbie

Carolyn

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you. Technically you're right, Martin luther King might well have been a republican, but that was a legacy of the civil war. The Democrats in the south were the party of racism, blacks voted republican because that was the party that freed them slavery. However, following the civil war legislation under LBJ, black voters switched lock stock to the Dems, southern whites switched to the GOP as a protest against the legislation. I'm fairly sure, Martin Luther King would have become a Democrat as they were the party that gave rights to the black community (and therefore most likely have voted for Obama). Of course, Obama had plenty of communist associates, another reason why he would have voted for Obama.

Only kidding on the last bit.

Danielle

ALL THIS COMMENTARY IN THE WORLD'S PRESS! OBAMA WON BECAUSE THE POPULATION SECTOR HE REPRESENTS IS REACHING 50% OF THE US! HE IS SEPTIMUS SEVERUS. GET ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY.

Barry Unlikely

It's useful to remember that during the Reagan years Frank Gaffney was once a member of the wonderfully named 'NUTS' - the Nuclear Utilisation Theory Section'who advocated attacking Russia on the basis that 100-150 million US dead was a price worth paying for the defeat of Communism, and never mind how many Russians would die, nor that the world would essentially end. More recenty Mr. Gaffney's position on journalists at Al Jazeera - themselves often criticised by Arab countries for airing Israeli views - were that they were fair game in the war on terror and should be killed if they broadcast any material supplied by Islamic militants.

Killing the messenger, and deciding that hell-on-earth and the ultra-mass killing of even your own citizens on the basis of a personal ideology, is so hugely insane that the people Philips so despises seem like nobel laureates in comparison.

It's also worth bearing in mind that two of the greatest threats to innocent American lives is not terrorism, but diet related heart disease and gun ownership.
Sadly, lion hearted people kill each other at a rate every year that outstrips the entire death toll atttributable to terrorism since 1982.

I happen to like America very much. I've always liked their people, and I think they deserve so much better than the delusions that Philips and Gaffney and the NRA and Bush and all their ilk serve to them.

Whether Obama can provide this remains to be seen.

Tony

Jill [November 8th, 2008 1:15am]

This is exactly the nature of what we have lived through over the last decade.

On the surface Tony Blair presented himself as a centrist and moderate but his radicalism has completely changed our country for the worse.

This is Ms Phillips writing on 6 Nov 2008: “[Blair’s] government either directly promoted or did nothing to stop the long march through Britain’s institutions — the systematic undermining of the country’s fundamental values and traditions, in line with the cultural Marxism strategy of the philosopher Antonin Gramsci.

“It tore up Britain’s (unwritten) constitution, devolving power to Scotland and changing the composition of the upper parliamentary chamber, the House of Lords, destroying the delicate equilibrium of the balance of power…

“Obama has talked about remedying what he sees as the flaws in the U.S. Constitution which promotes only “negative liberties,” or freedom from something rather than positive rights to something.

“Well, through human-rights legislation Britain has exchanged its historic concept of “negative” liberty — everything is permitted unless it is actively prohibited — for the ‘positive’ European idea that only what is codified is to be permitted.”

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjljMGU3ODc0YzcxMDkxYTlkYWQwOWY2NDMyZDVlYTY=

One thing the Republicans must not do is tear themselves apart. The margin of defeat was not very high and neither McCain or Palin excelled in the debates. I agree with Simon Heffer (a British writer) that either Rudy Giuliani or Mitt Romney would make great picks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/11/08/do0801.xml&page=2

The Republicans must not go into a panic like the Conservatives did and must not try to serve up an Obama imitation (as Mr Heffer puts it, they “will get nowhere by trying to out-Obama Obama”). The Conservative leader tried to be an ‘heir to Blair’ at one time and soon dropped it when he realised how foolish it was.

A solid performer like either of those two would almost certainly have had the edge over Obama in the debates. As an outsider, I was dumbstruck when the Republicans didn’t go for Giuliani.

Jill

Jill wrote: "The kind who would support Obama's radical marxist agenda. Emmanuel is a rabid partisan. The choice signaled to the Republicans across the USA that bipartisanship is off the table. The choice means O is governing from the far, far left."

Isreal wrote: Eight years of the Bush administration, six years of a republican senate and house under the rubber stamp rule of Tom Delay and NOW people are supposedly worried about bipartizanship?

My god what a bunch of WATB's. The republicans and bush have been the best example of the Midas touch in reverse. Everything these people have toched has turned to moose droppings, and all McCain could offer was more of the same AND THE PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT IT. Maybe if the republicans hadn't done such a p***poor job these last eight years more people in the US and around the world would be backing their position. Maybe if they hadn't treated traditional allies in such a sneering dismissive way they would be looking at a world where they would be respected. What, do you really think that any neo-con will be able to spout their usual rubbish now they have been repudiated and exposed for what they are, flat track bullys but without the gang behind them backing them up. The circular firing squad has started with the fiscal cons going up against the extreame christianists to see who will get control. It's going to be fun, and l for one will be watching with a big tub of popcorn.
---------------------------

Jill responds: You're right for some wrong reasons. I never fell into the habit of blaming Bush for everything even though I did not vote for him in 2000. Blame Bush was a successful Election 2008 campaign strategy and the Democrats are loathe to give it up. It is their crutch. However, mainstream journalists are now finally reporting what Bush has accomplished in the last eight years. For one, he passed the terrorism test on 9/11. Between 1979 and 9/11, ten thousand American civilians died due to terrorists. Since then, zero died. The economy was rock solid until the election year because of the tax cuts bearing Bush’s name. The surge worked, and Bush’s second term was completely the opposite of his first term. The MSM just didn’t talk about it because it would ruin their chances in Election 2008. Melanie has written about Bush’s accomplishments and the political blame game recently. You can peruse her latest articles. It is truly a disgrace the way Bush has been treated.

You seem to fall for the false idea that the economy belongs to the executive branch. It actually belongs to no branch. Nobody is responsible for it any more than they are responsible for the sun rising today. However, the legislative has power to make laws and the president can either veto it or not. The president creates an agenda, but Congress doesn’t have to read it. You also seem not to understand that since WWII, Republicans controlled the house for only twelve years (not consecutively.) They controlled the senate for only fourteen years (not consecutively.) The Democrats controlled both the House and Senate for an uninterrupted forty-year stretch. The Democratic Party created institutional obstructions on economy in that time (mixed economy aka Keynesian).

A recent example with catastrophic results is the Democratic Party’s Fannie and Freddie, which triggered the worldwide financial problems. Bush, McCain, and the Republicans, as usual, do all they can to save the Democrats from themselves. You can find quote after quote after quote of them calling for reform of Freddie and Fannie, and quote after quote after quote of Democrats denying reality.

You sneered: “Maybe if they hadn't treated traditional allies in such a sneering dismissive way they would be looking at a world where they would be respected.”

I don’t see anti-Americans as deserving of respect, and I don’t care what they think of us. We were attacked on 9/11, and the anti-Americans among the allies backstabbed us. We should seriously consider pulling out of NATO especially with Russia eyeing Europe, now.

You sneered: “What, do you really think that any neo-con will be able to spout their usual rubbish now they have been repudiated and exposed for what they are, flat track bullys but without the gang behind them backing them up.”

I don’t know what a neo-con is, nor do I understand this sentence or some of the phrases (ex: “flat track bullys.”) When I see neo-con it is usually in the same paragraph as Bush. It might be a word for far right, but Bush is not far-right. He’s closer to the center and may even rest on the left side. He is a moderate. Define neo-con.

You are right for the wrong reasons. The Republicans have lost their commitment to conservatism and have suffered for it. McCain represented the new moderates in the Republican Party who engage in bipartisanship, and nine million conservatives did not vote in this election to teach the Republican Party a lesson. (Obama won by six million.) Every Republican Congress member who signed on for the bi-partisan bail-out struggled to keep their seat. Republicans have successfully booted every moderate congress member from the North East. That fact will have a profound effect on the Republican Party in returning to their roots.

Conservatives view Bush as a bipartisan and do not like it because when you "reach across the aisle" you get your arm broken. Negotiating with Democrats is like negotiating with terrorists; terrorists will negotiate how they want to kill you. The Conservative voters in the USA rejected moderation or socialism mixed with capitalism. Meanwhile, California and three other states voted to preserve the institution of marriage. The majority of people in the USA are conservatives according to PEW research and a study of elections. It is the Republican Party’s fault for thinking they had to become like Democrats and market their candidates as a “brand.” Conservatives do not have to sell ideas; they simply have to articulate the principles that enabled American growth and prosperity, and they win elections. It happens every time.

You are right to criticize the Republican Party, but blame rests on moderates in the Republican Party, popularly called RINOs, “Republicans in name only.”

You sneered: “The circular firing squad has started with the fiscal cons going up against the extreame christianists to see who will get control. It's going to be fun, and l for one will be watching with a big tub of popcorn.”

The Republican Party foundation does not rest on groups. It rests on principles and individualism. You'll see conservative principles shoving out the moderate theories. What exactly is an “extreame christianists?” Would that be someone who doesn’t want to die in a terrorist attack? Or someone who is not a CINO, “Christian in name only?” It’s hard to follow you because you skim from the top of the Democratic Party’s narrative (official version of events produced for mass consumption) and lack depth that comes from deeply held convictions. Enjoy your popcorn :)

phil

AspenUSMC can you help an ordinary uninformed Brit -where do you get this information from?it is of course a very important statement by you and I am intrigued as to how so many of the US voters have not been aware of it ,in particular why did 77 percent of the Jewish vote go to what you say is an anti semite -they surely are normally a very aware community.I hope you can help me settle my mind ,I would be most obliged .

You will have noticed that I actually read other peoples posts and do respond unlike so many narcissistic writers who I am sure only read what they themselves have written .am I thinking of the ace narcissists frank and verity -who knows ?

John Birch

Emmet: You talk of appeasement toward bin Laden during the Clinton era. What did the Bush administration do to get bin Laden from when it took office up until 9-11? How did invading Iraq and shifting resources from the fight in Afghanistan help to get bin Laden? What do you think George Bush meant when he said the following on March 13, 2002: "I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."

Huw Thornton

@ Conservative Cabbie

"The one thing we can agree on, America is a great nation - I'm sure that in four or eight years time, it will still be so."

Absolutely. Obama's election is not the dawning of the golden age on the one hand, or a harbinger of the end of the world on the other.

Jill

Sue writes: Where they differ from most is a belief that miracles and signs are working today through the Holy Spirit, just as they did at the time of the apostles.

Jill writes: Good post! Enjoyed it. You really know your stuff. I believe like Sarah's church believes that miracles are for today. In other words, I believe in miracles! I hope the Conservatives do, too. Here's a scripture for us:

"He will indeed give what is good, and our land will yield its harvest. Righteousness goes before him and prepares his steps."

It's in Psalms somewhere. It's one of those scriptures you memorize the words but not the reference ;) It's for our times.

Hayward Maberley

Verity et al.
Your whinges about where the comments box is on this site are interesting....“First, these Blogs pages were perpetrated by the illiteratti(sic) of the computer world. They don't understand the use of actual words and making it convenient to use them. The notion of putting the Comments box at the top of a blog which may have 200 comments on it, to be scrolled through by someone reading the last post and wishing to add their own comment could only have been thought of during a full moon.”
“Does this illiterate not understand that people scroll back and forth to check facts, quotes and spellings and no one wants to spend half their lives scrolling through over 200 comments.”
“Move the Comments box south.”
Who will join me in this plea - or, in today's terminology - demand?
“Also, site designers, move the Comments box south.”
Then Mr Pulley chimes in,
“Pretty please ... I'm with V - move the commentary box south! Or, after numerous vain requests from Verity me and several others since this site opened, do we not deserve a rational reply as to why not, perhaps? “
Then you Verity are back with,
“Again, this blog was designed by website designers who cannot use joined-up writing. It's how it looks that counts for them because they are largely illiterate about anything outside html”
“This is so absurd it beggars description, but it is consonant with the placement of the Comments box at the top of the thread
Then Hysteria chimes in
“@ Verity - agree the comments about the website build - we need to move to a chat environment - perhaps with some logon security thingy - the present system is no lnger fit for purpose espcially as there is an increasing contribution level from outide the UK time-zone.”
Then American Voter chimes in
“Verity: You are quite correct about the prehistoric manner of this blogsite and let's not even go into the lack of linked links... Perhaps we should take up a collection to send some poor soul at the Speccie on a Computer course.”
Verity, in the above you refer in your usual disparaging fashion to anything/anybody that does not suit you frame of mind.
A reponse from Pete Hoskin @ The Spectator,
“Verity and all other calling for a comments box at the bottom of the page: your request duly noted. I can't make a unilateral decision, but I'll discuss it with folk in the office. Will keep you all updated.”
Well I may be able to give ta probable and rational explanation that Mr Pulley seeks,
until The Spectator management see fit to, although it may not please you Verity et al
I doubt that the IT personnel maintaining The Spectator sites are “the illiteratti(sic) of the computer world” nor would they be lunatics.
I suggest this because my son-in-law to be is one such IT person and he is neither illiterate nor lunatic. He does much the same for a publishing organisation in Australia. He says that all the blogs and postings to them at The Spectator would operate in the same way.
What has probably happened is that management at The Spectator has chosen a specific application to manage the blogs and the posts to those blogs. The “illiterati”, only two of t as you call them, Verity, may have been consulted but the final decision was not theirs, it was probably the “bean counters” One of several applications has been chosen, possibly Vignette or Fatwire, on the basis of efficiencies in cost, effort and time. This enables the blog contributors to load their blogs in the easiest and most efficient manner AND that that the posts are all handled in the same way.
An easy solution, Verity et al. is to C & P the article that is of interest as a document, put in the comments around the topic to be addressed, D the unwanted sections and P the piece back as a post.
No scrolling up and down and no need to whinge!
Another, though more difficult solution, Verity, is to start your own blog. Then it can be set up and run exactly as you would like it to be.
Anyroad it is only a blog, it is not a life and death matter

An American

Funny....US comedians are now saying that Obama is just too 'cool' to make fun of...they might be right...maybe there isn't anything about Obama to laugh about. When people are too much in awe or fearful of being called bigots when making fun of our leaders...it shows that our free speech continues to shut down. Obama hasn't changed...he continues to surround himself with some very unsavory, strident, far left people in his upcoming administration. And now we can't even laugh at this self-important ass...Bush jokes are going to get awfully old.

Jill

Thank you, Tony. Melanie clarifies issues so elegantly, and prioritizes them. She reminds me of the saying, do not major on the minors. I don't know anybody who voted for McCain in the Primary. The centrists in the Republican Party were running the show. Giuliani might have been good except he had a nasty public divorce, and he is pro-abortion. That was the biggest strike against him. All these things are worth digesting, but we have to move on...Congress will be on our front door step soon.

The Dems first thing, I think, will be something "small" like another stimulus package. They will choose something they "small" in order to release Republican steam. If we go head to head with all our cannons on the first challenge to the people's sovereignty, we might lose steam for next bigger battle, like the unfairness doctrine, or embezzling private savings accounts, or youth hit squads. Maybe we can use the moderates for caving in on relatively smaller things, which makes them happy. However, that may not go down very well with the nine million who refused to vote this year because the candidates were not conserv enough. They and many conservatives can't wait for the first battle whatever it is...Conserv representatives may want to rumble over first issue that pops up just to show their constituents back home they are fighters. While the public is eating up bandwidths on that issue, the Dems will schedule a midnight vote on youth hit squads.

I'm aware of picking and choosing battles, or pacing, as a citizen advocate. We're in this for the long victory. Melanie focuses on the majors. We should keep reading her editorials because she is the only writer I know who relates issues in the UK to US politics in a way regular US citizens "get it." She is sharing UK's experience for our battles. She doesn't hate us, either. Her articles are like salve poured on wounds. But, she might have a slight elitism about her because of a few things she says about Sarah Palin, who I love. I haven't figured that part out yet about Melanie. I would forgive her because nobody is perfect, and she is a freedom fighter. She might think defending our values is more important than winning popularity polls for individual politicians. I would argue that some individual politicians represent our values.

We'll keep reading and writing :)

Jawbreakeralpha

No it's not called Democracy, it's a Representative form of Governance, "We the People." Not the thugs that rose to the top of this election through fraud, deception, lies and the "dead" accomplices other wise known as the main-stream-media.

Bob from Virginia

Michelle Obama said "Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed."

Anyone remember Juan and Evita Peron. I really don't feel the need to have anyone require me to "put down, come out, move, push, shed" or do anything I do not want,or am I going to lose this option?

The best thing Obama could be for the country is awful president. I hate to thing of the US being transformed into a glorified Banana Republic complete with all providing Caudillo-patron. It can happen here.

I have not shed my cynicism as you can see.

John Birch

An American: You're right about Obama surrounding himself with far left radicals. We should be worried that his economic advisors include Paul Volcker and Warren Buffet. I've always been suspicious of Buffet and his support for meritocracy and opposition to inherited wealth. He clearly his a socialist, hence Obama's recruitment him as an advisor.

Verity

Sue writes: "Oh, and those who want to fuse about the comment box location. You're just being silly. Is it too much effort to scroll up the page using the bar on the right of the page?!"

Oooh! A question mark PLUS an exclamation point for emphasis! Well, yes, actually, Sue. For those of us who respond to the posts of others, take care to quote them accurately and take care to spell their names properly, yes, scrolling up through 250 comments and then back down again two or three times to post just one item is too much trouble, as it happens.

Liberal writes: "Anyway,a black US president has arrived---a cause for celebration given the history of the United States." You condescending twerp. How much more patronising can you get? "Black" (which Obama is not; he is half white, but that's irrelevant to your point) is not a qualification for anything. Humans are infinitely varied and have a varied, to say the least, moral code to guide them. If Thomas Sowell had been elected, I would have drunk Champagne right out of the bottle. (Not that he would dream of running.) To count black and half-black people as all one entity is creepy, needy and chillingly condescending.

Jim - Why shouldn't Obama's auntie and uncle live in a slum, his brother George lives in a shack in Nairobi on a dollar a day. Besides, the aunt doesn't live in a slum; she lives in sheltered accommodation in Boston at the expense of the Massachusetts taxpayers, despite being an illegal immigrant to was ordered out of the country four years ago.

Stephanie H - Melanie "sits on her front porch in London"????? Not very well travelled, are you, dear?

BTW, when Sarah Palin was chosen as the VP candidate, a star was born.

H Mayberly - I saw my name mentioned a few times as I scrolled over your post. Be informed that I don't read anything you write.

Pete H - Thanks for your acknowledgement of the intense discomfort this site puts posters through with this Heath Robinson set up. Not only should be comments box be moved south to accommodate those commenting on the latest posts of others, without having to scroll back and forth through 200 plus, but you chaps and chapesses should number posts. LGF can get a thousand posts on any one subject, but people find it easy to reference them because they're numbered.

That said, don't imagine for a minute, Pete, that you're not sincerely appreciated!

Dixon

Now that health care is being dragged into the debate, I would suggest that the comparisons are topsy-turvy. Instead of the US emulating us, we should be more like them.

The NHS has become a decadent absurdity, a warped perversion of its founders intentions. Instead of attending to the illness of the living, it now tries to extend the life-span of those who ought reasonably expect to have reached the end of their days. The replacement or organs that, as often as not, the recipient destroyed through abuse ( I speak with reference to a brother of mine, but look at that creep George Best for an example ) is an immensely expensive industry. For it to be available for free is a sickening, dizzyingly exorbitant illustration of how our society has lost touch with reality. And before anyone asks, no, I won’t be opting to undergo such “therapy” if I am given the choice. I realise that sooner or later we all die.

Then add in other areas of absurd over facilitation: hip replacements in people so old that they should just consider it remarkable that they are alive at all. Fertility treatment. If people want to breed they can do it at their own expense! Surely!

Altogether, the NHS could be hacked back to a third of its present scale and still do everything it was originally intended for.

Edward Cameron

Melanie claims Western Civilization is losing out to a left wing agenda. What absolute revisionist nonsense! Western Civilization is built on the Enlightenment, which champions reason and evidence over ideology. Melanie Phillips and her ilk abandoned reason long ago both on the issues and in terms of perspective. This week Americans chose to drain the poison of the Bush years from the body politic. Americans have embraced reason once more.

Jill

Especially for An American
November 8th, 2008 12:31pm

Grab a Shovel, the Future Looks Bright
By Comrade Whoopie
10/28/2008, 9:55 am

Comrades, our Dear Leader has spoken romantically of the Great Depression, a time when the people came together (to stand in soup lines). A time when our last Dear Leader for life, FDR, instituted the Civilian Conservation Corps. When comrade Obama takes control, we shall again see a return to that progressive era. So let us recall those bygone days.

http://thepeoplescube.com/red/viewtopic.php?t=2502

Enjoy :)

Jill

For your consideration:

Marxist tsunami won't douse liberty

Posted: November 08, 2008
1:00 am Eastern
Henry Lamb

It is not just a victory for the Democrats; it is a Marxist tsunami. The principles that have guided President-elect Obama to this point are deeply rooted in Marxist philosophy. He is now in the position to infuse government with this philosophy through his appointments and legislative agenda. Democrats Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Schumer, Frank and others with recognizable names are only the face of what's in store. Behind this face is a force teaming with the power to obliterate the U.S. Constitution and the machinery of self-governance it created.

The God to whom our founders prayed for guidance has been thrown overboard by the modern Democrat Party. For at least a generation, Karl Marx has provided both inspiration and guidance to the people who are now in control of America. Republicans have not just been out-maneuvered and out-campaigned; some Republicans have been willing participants, joining the Democrats in the worship of Marxist ideals.

This Democrat tsunami is not only a defeat of Republicans; it is a defeat of freedom.

Freedom, as defined in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution, cannot exist when government ignores the limitations placed upon it by the Constitution. Government, led by both Democrats and Republicans, started ignoring these limitations long ago and has now grown into a people-management machine that would make Karl Marx proud.

This transformation has been possible only because the people have allowed it. Now, a majority of people expect it, and even demand it. When this tsunami settles across the land, the federal government will truly be the people-management authority of the United States. And what's worse, Democrats are likely to welcome the global central bank to be discussed at a global economic summit this month, which would transform the United States into an administrative unit of the global people-management authority – the United Nations.

Those people who have been called to carry the torch of freedom will not jump ship and move to another country, or throw in the towel and shrink into the shadows. Freedom lovers will survey the losses, inventory the resources, build a new strategy – and go to work.

The losses are not limited to the White House and Congress. Freedom has been defeated in the schoolhouse, as well as in the courthouse. To be successful, a new strategy must recognize this reality and design ways to retake these foundational institutions.

Try as it may, the Marxist tsunami cannot extinguish the flame of freedom. Freedom lovers are not without resources. In every state and every community there are people who still believe in the principles of freedom set forth in the Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution. These people, and their faith, are a powerful resource against which even the gates of hell cannot prevail.

It took the advocates of Marxist theory several generations to convince people that government should manage all human affairs. It will take time for the advocates of freedom to convince a new generation that individual freedom spawns free enterprise that produces prosperity and a far better way to live than can be realized under a Marxist people-management regime.

The Russian people welcomed the Marxist tsunami early in the 20th century. By the end of the century, they were crushed by it. Americans who refuse to recognize that the current ascendancy of the Democrats is a Marxist tsunami will be swept up and eventually crushed by it, whether they recognize it or not.

Those who are called to carry the torch of freedom into the 21st century will find one another and begin anew to free the nation from this latest threat of tyranny. Ironically, this new strategy will include many of the tactics used to build the Marxist tsunami. For example, community organizing is a tool widely used by those who teach and advance Marxist ideas. This tool works equally well for freedom lovers. Already, in communities across the country, small organizations are working to teach the principles of freedom and how they can be incorporated into local ordinances and state law. Already, there are organizations working to get the principles of freedom restored to the institutions of education and returned to the textbooks used at every grade level.

Those who are called to carry the torch of freedom will find these organizations, get involved and go to work. Success will come, and freedom will be restored only when everyone who enjoys the fruits of freedom shares the burden of defending it. The champions of this Marxist tsunami will dance and drink and celebrate their great victory, ignorant of the giant they have awakened.

From every corner of the country, regular Americans are feeling the call and rising to find fellow patriots who are not about to let freedom die. The pending tsunami may damage the pillars of liberty, but it cannot quench freedom's torch. Together, in a thousand ways, in ten thousand communities, the flame of freedom raised by each individual will light the way and chart the course to reclaim the schoolhouse, the courthouse, the White House, Congress and the future.

Henry Lamb is the chairman of Sovereignty International and founder of the Environmental Conservation Organization (ECO).

Hysteria

@ a number of people !

I have used both the NHS and the US health system in anger (how many other contributors have first hand expereince of both?) - I know which works better for me and my family. (The NHS is superior IMHO)

The poster talking about us cutting and pasting to a separate document etc etc to get the blogs in - yawn - these systems should be easy to use and built around the user needs not the conveniance or technical wizzardry of the designers. Is the IT industry one of the most arrogant in this regard? Anyway - numbering the posts would be an obvious first step to improve (mind you I do not recall a blog with this many posts in the Spectator website)

Roberto Leandro

Hello

Sue

Verity, You're pleas have been heard.

Pete Hoskin wrote:

"November 7th, 2008 5:40pm
Verity and all other calling for a comments box at the bottom of the page: your request duly noted. I can't make a unilateral decision, but I'll discuss it with folk in the office. Will keep you all updated."

Congratulations Verity, I could see how important this was to you. Now if you could get all the posts listed in sequential order that would be great.

Please note that I used not a single exclaimation mark in respect of your sensibilities. :D

Frank P

Pete Hoskin

Re commentary box. Thanks for seeking assistance on that request, we await the decision with extended patience. After all, if I recall correctly, all the other blogs under the aegis of the Speccie have their commentary box after the last comment to be posted, so it can't be impossible with the software you are using. I have been trepidatious about following up previous requests because I thought perhaps Melanie had a reason for keeping it that way and I would certainly always defer to her wishes about her own blog and put up with the inconvenience - to facilitate the best progressive (in the true sense)journalist/author around.

Joe Camel

No Joe, I wasn't addressing the 'idle sods' remark at any of the commentariat; the blog was left unattended by the 'moderator' for at least 12 hours yesterday (I gave up in the end) and I was suggesting that all the Speccie staff were still non compissed mentis from (a) the boondoggle to the US, or (b)the celebrations of the New World Order in Old Queen Street yesterday. :-) Wouldn't dream of offending our American friends - except the the pricks (and prickesses) who voted for the cabal of creeping communism and their flaky, furtive, front-man.

Dixon

If we are now debating the set out of the comments thread, I would suggest that a very simple measure would be multiple pages.

On another site I go to it is very quick and easy to go straight to the latest exchanges. whereas here ( on my dial up connection ) it takes several minutes of waiting for the page to load and themn more irritating scrolling up and down to locate where one left off.

also, a system which permits direct quoting of other posters comments works very smoothl;y and makes the whole debate much clearer in all respects. The different "he said she saids" otherwise get very complicated, as in this thread, where about seven different topics are under discussionsimultaneously.

That last conjunction of two words kind of resembles it!

I agree with another poster, the IT obsessives seem to think that IOT is the be-and-end-all of everything rather than a tool for other, more important, purposes. Whats more, people who design programs seem to have little experience of how absurdly over-elaborate they often are in general use. Onbe false twitch of a finger on a mouse and hours of work up the spout!

Using a PC shouldnt require the manual dexterity of Jehudi Menhuin!

phil

Hayward Maberley you are a lucky man, count your blessings the fragrant one ,her of narcissistic tendencies does not read your posts ,mine neither .but of course the lady lies because we know she does .Both her and her follower frank p pretend to ignore us .I find it flattering and so should you ,as they both are unable to deal with normal people i.e. those that state their thoughts without resort to insults and innuendo .Stand tall Howard you are a man of reason in a sea of right wing thoughtless lunatics.I absolve the cabbie ,who tries to use reason .and any others who have not joined this class of haters .

Verity

Frank P - I've just scrolled up over 250 posts to respond to yours and ... I've forgotten what I was going to say.

Oh, yes! It's not just Melanie's blog. It's all three Blogs that are cursed with this format. Stephen's, Melanie's and Clive David's.

BTW is there a Spectator-imposed hair code for Eponymous bloggers? Do Melanie, Stephen and Clive go to the same hairdresser?

George Steiner

The Obambi apologists will want to contemplate this.

Your 40 or 50 years past, what you have done, where you have been, whom you have known has no bearing on who you are, what you will do in the future.

So when you go for your next interview or meet your next date, just offer Hope&Change. The interviewer will throw you out, and your date will laugh at you.

Frank P

Verity

I stand corrected; two of the three personalised blogs are upside down and without wishing to be invidious (would I?) Stephen doesn't attract enough traffic to matter, while Clive has dumped his comments box anyway. It was the Coffee House and The Wall blogs that have the box sensibly located.

While you're there, take a look at this garbage:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Racism-In-Labour-Party-Would-Block-A-British-Barack-Obama-Says-Watchdog-Chief/Article/200811215147184

They won't give up, will they? Not until 'merit and quality first' is superceded by 'skin colour first (provided it's black), socialism second, meritocracy - WTF does that mean?'

When is somebody going to start demanding that capable experienced people should be elected to government, regardless of pigmentation and that chips on shoulders are a disqualification.

Sue

Jill, Great comments all. Thanks for sharing other juicy commentaries in lieu of Melanie.

I've just ordered a fist full of bumper stickers renouncing the 'fairness doctrine' and praising free speech.

They're not going to get that one without a real revolt on their hands.

Hm? Maybe a new revolution wouldn't be so bad? Keep the powder dry!

kat in your hat

Melanie, they are brainwashed. They just don't understand because they are unable to see it. I'm a democrat and saw it easily. Then again, I am also someone who doesn't have faith in the MSM, and I always questioned my teachers. Most people accept just about anything. I am telling you, even if something horrible happens (and it will) these people will still not be able to put two and two together.

AF - Austin, TX

"1939 December

7th – Thursday. “Lift up your hearts”. Five minutes of devotion on BBC for first time. Then physical exercise."

Funny isn't it. 1940's BBC Devotion....Ha

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/britainatwar/britainatwarreadersmemories/3234265/Britain-at-War-War-through-the-eyes-of-an-Ascot-family-1939-46.html

Verity

Highly regarded English columnist Matthew Parris has called Obama "a daring opportunist" and I think that is close.

How could anyone with his background - or, actually, non-background as we know absolutely nothing about him - ever have entertained the notion that he could run for President of The United States and win?

To me, the whole thing is eerie and has been since day one.

Conservative Cabbie

Re Rudi Giuliani

A couple of posters (too much scrolling involved to find out who) have stated that Giuliani would have been better opposition to Obama.

Need I remind them just how poor his primary campaign was. He ignored the early states, Iowa, NH and S Carolina, and focused entirely on Florida, California and N York. By the time super tuesday came round, McCain already had momentum, Romney and Huckabee were already demonstrating that they were the main opposition and Giuliani hadn't even got started. When political scientists study how not to run a primary campaign, it will be Giuliani's they refer too.

Conservative Cabbie

Israel

In an earlier comment, you referred to Fred Thompson as a criticism of the republican party. Leaving aside the fact that I quite like him, need I remind you that it is the Democrats who are seating a former member of the KKK in the senate. I'll take Fred over a member of the KKK any day of the week.

Tina

Yes, Frank, I too saw the ludicrous comments by Trevor Phillips, but he is paid to say that sort of thing.

If he doesn’t, he puts himself out of work - and he won't do that.

If someone is paid taxpayers’ money to whine, they will whine. That’s why that wretched quango has to be scrapped.

I just thought it was reminiscent of the whole Ian Blair thing.

Having spent years nurturing chips on shoulders, the Labour Party gets hoist on its own petard. Serve them right.

It will never end so long as we have that rotten quango that Trevor Phillips heads.

The whole method was so predictable too.

The calculation in Trevor Phillips' head was something like: “Race is always pretty untouchable and never more than this week because of the Obama win.” So off he fired.

But then the backlash came.

And what did Trevor Phillips do then?

Easy. What he and his useless ilk always do. If the first card in the PC deck doesn‘t work, pull out another. So Trevor Phillips duly said words to the effect “oh no, it was broader, I meant gender and class too”.

Course you did, Trev.

It’s the only method of attack and defence these people know. If one PC argument gets shown up, drag in another and another so you get more grievance groups to back you up.

This man is a millionaire from this grievance industry. So if you’re struggling to pay the mortgage this winter, get your chin up because he and his quango is paid for all out of taxpayers’ money.

Sue

Frank P., Verity and all,
Here's a tip for comment/scrolling delima. Open a new document and as you scroll along reading, stop and make remarks in the document. Once you've scrolled and read and responded to everything you want to, cut and paste the info into the box on top.

It's even handier than relying on the box on the bottom, in that it will always be on the ready for your comments. Cheers!

EC

The comments box is exactly where it should be. One can leave a comment without having to wade through, in this case, 365+ deposits. Putting the comments box at the bottom would be a really dumb idea. The user should have the choice of displaying the comments in whichever chronological sequence they like. However this still might not satisfy the professional malcontents who it would appear will accept nothing less than a procession of golden elephants. In defence of programmers I would say that if the "illiteratti"(sic)of blogosphere cannot be bothered to use the slider bar and/or if the inconvenience and discomfort of making FREE use of these facilities becomes too unbearable then blog off elsewhere.

Hayward Maberley

Verity et al.
"Oh, yes! It's not just Melanie's blog. It's all three Blogs that are cursed with this format. Stephen's, Melanie's and Clive David's."
Top Comment Box Blogs at The Spectator are, from a quick browse ;
Melanie Phillips, Stephen Pollard, but not Clive Davis. For Clive you send an email to him at AOL.
Trading Floor is as well. Interesting that is has a contributor by the name of Peter Hoskin. Could this be the same Pete Hoskin that put up a post here addressing the problem?
The Americano, The Billabong, a strange blog name for a concession to readers in the Wide Brown Land are all Top Comment Box Blogs.
Only blogs put up on The Coffee House seem to be Bottom Comment Box.
So it must be possible to do so for the others if they really want to do so. I find it hard to believe that their application would be that hard to change.

Frank P

Sue

Thanks! Always grateful for good advice and never too old to learn.

EC

Heh,heh,heh. That's another way of looking at it. But didn't you just wade through 365 'deposits' in order to read the suggestions, and then wade back to the comment box to veto them? I think that's what Verity was getting at. It's the repetition of ploughing through posts that you've already read (or in some cases deliberately not read having noted who made it) that is sometimes irksome. But Sue's suggestion is cool, as my grand kiddies would say.

As for the 'FREE' jibe, I subscribe to the magazine, don't you? And as the techies undoubtedly get paid and the commentariat contributes its 'illiterate' efforts and time for bugger all, voluntarily, it seems a fair exchange. Are you suggesting we pay for commenting? Most of us, it seems, are here to support Melanie and her seemingly inexhaustible efforts to enlighten us with excellent research and splendid analysis. As for those who disagree with that last sentence, then perhaps it is they that should, as you amusingly suggest, blog off! But then, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, aren't they? And if anyone thinks this is a good place to express one without getting some flak, then they will soon be disabused of the notion. I'm still with Verity, as your point (on this occasion) is not persuasive.

Verity

Sue - Do you mean your post seriously or as a bit of Marx Brothers? What's your real name? Heath Robinson? (Or, if you're American, Rube Goldberg? We're bilingual in these parts.)

Max Marandino

Regarding south america , witch is where i'm from . We can only expect the worse from a Obama mandate . Talk means enemies of America are gaining time . With a mandate coming to a end for Álvaro Uribe the last stronghold of rule of law in the region , Latin America doesn't have a bright future . It's a shame .

Verity

Sue: What's a "delima"?

I'm not going to scroll down through 350 posts in case you explained it in your comment.

You seem to be bossy and boring. Never a good combination.

Sue

I've been searching on line for any grassroots groups getting started to resist the Obamanization of America. I've been particularly concerned about hints that Obama plans to try and get the 'fairness doctrine' reinstated, and also to have it drift over into sites on the internet.

I found a great site if anyone is interested in working to protect America from this socialist.

The website says: "FreedomMarch.org is a vehicle for American Citizens to participate in taking back our nation. Obama slipped into office by being actively sheltered by the mainstream media, and should Obama enact even a portion of his radical agenda, our nation risks serious and permanent injury."

Check it out: http://www.freedommarch.org

Israel

Jill:

Love your responses, most are very funny. You are right no US civilians have died on American soil since 9/11 (which actually happened on bush's watch or do we just ignore the Aug 6th 2001 security briefing about terrorists determined to attack in US like he did?). You fail to mention that before that the largest deaths due to terrorism was actually Tim McVeigh but i'm sure you just mean brown skinned terrorists so lets more on. Of your ten thousand killed how many were actually military? I only ask because they would not be classed as civilians, would they?

You say the economy was rock solid until the election year? Some would say differrent, l mean, it's not that long since Enron crashed is it? And i'm sure that you read the predictions by Paul Krugman a couple of years ago where he predicted that the foundations of sand that the US economy was built on would be washed away. Then again what would a Nobel Prize winning economist know?

I did know about the democrats controlling the House and Senate for fourty years. When the got too bad and too useless they were voted out first under Gingrich in 1995 until the defenestrated him and then again in 2002 under Delay until he fell under the weight of his own corruption. The question you should be asking is why did they only control Congress for such a short period of time? What is it about republicans when in charge of Congress they do so badly that people quickly remove them from control?

I love the fact that republicans have latched onto the canard about the 2006 deregulation of Fannie and Freddie should not have happened !! It's as if Milton Friedman had never been born!! What is also funny is the mass collective amnesia on the right about the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (which McCain voted for in 1999), which passed in the Senate by a vote of 54-44. The deregulation bill loosened restrictions on the activities of banks, brokerage houses, and insurance companies. This was accompanied in 2000 by The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 introduced on Dec 14th 2000 in the House and a companion bill introduced in the Senate on Dec 15th 2000. Don't you think that creating the CDS (credit default swap) market which ended up being a $62 trillion dollar market (an increase from $900 billion in 2000), which is FIVE TIMES the size of the holdings of the New York Stock Exchange, allowing brokers to dip into hedge funds and use their money to speculate on the scock market did more damage than a man in Des Moines who was unable to meet a payment on his mortgage? This crisis is due to greedy speculators in unregulated markets which is what people are trying to deny.
You say the anti-American allies backstabbed the US? My god, the entire western world was behind the US after 9/11!! Even Arab countries were showing their support!! There was a real chance for real consensus and bush cocked it up. Maybe you should compare the countries who went into Iraq in 1991 to the ones who went into Iraq this time. The simple fact is that what was being pushed was not true and was not believed, unless you are going to say that WMD's WERE actually found in Iraq, if so you had better tell the bush administration (and Donald Rumsfeld as he was sure they were around there somewhere).

After eight years of bush you are trying to say that you don't know what a neo-con (as in Neo-Conservative) is? Really? So the guys in the White House and the policies they have been promoting and the Bush Doctrine are all things you have never heard of? You are trying to say that you have never heard of PNAC (Project for a New American Century) and the 25 people who signed the letter to Bill Clinton calling for regieme change in Iraq in 1999, most of whom ended up in the bush administration? REALLY? I'm also amazed that you actually consider bush as a bipartizan leader. Are you forgetting aht he said after the 2004 election about having political capital that he was going to spend? Or the media loudly proclaimg that he now had a mandate? In the six years that the republicans controlled the two houses in Congress the only bill from bush l can remember not being passed was the privatization of Social Security.
You claim the institution of marriage was preserved, me l say it was never in danger. Then again personally l don't think marriage is that important. I know the Mormons and the Catholic Church did, look at all the money they pumped into this fight to win it!! Of course you do have that "Seperation of Church and State" thing but why let little inconsequential things like the Constitution of the United States get in the way when you're out to stop teh gay, eh? You say that the majority of the US are conservatives according to PEW? Thats interesting because only 22% of counties voted more republican in this election and that was in the Appalacian region. The rest went democratic including NORTH CAROLINA!! . An impressive 26 states -- over half -- sported double-digit gains over 2004 for the democratic ticket. Indiana was the biggest gainer at +22, followed by North Dakota at +20. Western states including North Dakota (+20), Montana (+17), Nebraska (+17), Utah (+17), New Mexico (+16), California (+14), Nevada (+14), Colorado (+12), Idaho (+12), Oregon (+11), Washington (+10) all saw large gains for democrats. That doesn't really tally with what you are saying.
I know that i'm right to blame the republicans, thank you very much, but the ones l blame are those who would demonize people who disagreed with them or didn't follow their extreme christianist views. Oh yeah, you say you don't know what an extreme christianist is. They are the hypocrits who scream abstinance instead of promoting contraceptive methods which would cut down pregnancies, the morons who would deny research to ease suffering because they view it as against their backwards thinking version of religion as spouted by some sweating fat bejewelled faker in a "mega church" whose 900 toll number flashes on screen to relieve the gullible of their hard earned coin, the scumbags who are more concerned with the rights of the rapist that they have no problem or compassion in forcing a woman to carry to term that rapist's baby "because all lives are sacred" but would jump at the chance to pull the switch at an execution, who at the drop of a hat would go to war and see nothing wrong with the deaths of civilians in other countries as they think they are of "the wrong faith", but most of all l mean those who think that Exodus 20:2–17 should be the most important tenet of the christian faith instead of Matthew 5:3-12 and Matthew 25:35-45. These viewpoints l have actually come from deeply held convictions but then a party of closeted self-loathing gays, serial adulterers, users of prostitutes, convicted criminals, procurers of underaged sex from boys and girls supported by a thrice married, drug addicted, bloated, overt racist radio host wouldn't know that would they :-)

Israel

Israel

In an earlier comment, you referred to Fred Thompson as a criticism of the republican party. Leaving aside the fact that I quite like him, need I remind you that it is the Democrats who are seating a former member of the KKK in the senate. I'll take Fred over a member of the KKK any day of the week.

Cabbie:

Yes l know about Robert Byrd. I also know that he has expressed regret for what he did and the decisions he made. I suppose he's there because of the spirit of forgiveness from those democrats who believe him sincere. It's not like he's George Wallace or Strom Thurmgold is it? That's not to say that republicans are'nt forgiving just look at Larry Craig and David "Diaper Boy" Vitter!!

Israel

Cabbie:

Thank you for your post on Dr Martin Luther King. I'm sure if l had posted it it would have been sneered at. I really don't know what type of brain freeze has happened to some commentators on the right. Dr King opposed the Vietnam war, do they really think he would have agreed with the Iraq war?

By the way, someone really should try and check up on Melanie. It's been four days now!!!

michaeld

Thank you,thank you for speaking our minds!

Ronnie

Conservative Cabbie, re Rudy Giuliani, I agree with you 100%. I've never seen such a cack-handed 'campaign'.

In a modern primary campaign you need media exposure, as much and as early as possible. If you are not there at the begining, then you are just not there. You never catch up on votes and you do not attract the funding to allow you to have a continuing impact once you've wasted your initial 'war chest'.

Giulian's approach was arrogant and lazy.

fellow traveller

Jill: "Henry Lamb is the chairman of Sovereignty International and founder of the Environmental Conservation Organization (ECO)."

Just a bit of background on Henry: Sovereignty International is a wacko collection of right-wingers that claims the united Nations is using environmental regulations to establish a "one world government".

The Environmental Conservation Organisation is one of those wacky groups that does the opposite of what it sounds like: it's a front for land developers to fight against regulations that preserve your environment, and funded by them.

EC

"Spreading the wealth around."
Ever wondered where Obama was going to start? Ever wondered what advice Gordy gave to Barmy? An annual raid on pension funds. Well, it worked for Gordy. BO might go one step further and even take them into state "care."

Why anybody with a job or savings voted for BO is mystery. Mass hypnotism?

Ronnie

Jill, thank you for your 'Marxist Tsunami' post. I read it while listening to Anchors Aweigh.

In common with most of the other hysterics around here, you wouldn't know Marxism if it jumped up and bit you on the ass.

Ronnie

Frank P says, 'But then, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, aren't they? And if anyone thinks this is a good place to express one without getting some flak, then they will soon be disabused of the notion.'

Really Frank? Aren't you the P who complains about those who disagree with you having the temerity to post here?

Aren't you the P who proudly announces that he doesn't read the posts of those who dare to disagree with him? As if anyone actuallly cares.

I think changing your post name to 'Frank P' was ill advised. Those who have recently joined us here won't know what the 'P' stands for.

Or will they...?

Ronnie

Israel and Cabbie, does this mean that Robert Byrd has 'repented'?

Benjamin Croft

So easy to take this position. Forced into looking at things from a ridiculous angle by articles like this: I'm not black myself but, having some sympathy with a black radical agenda, hasn't the pendulum just swung the other way? After having more or less white religious wierdo racists in power - just a point of view - (for at least 8 years but perhaps longer), just for the sake of equality should we not try it the other way? How is it going to be any worse? Only for the whites who have had so good? Presumably some of the people who are spreading vitriol about the Obama campaign. In any event, even if this were true he couldn't mess things up like the supremely incompetent bush administration.

Barry H

Peter Hitchens is agog that Barack Obama has been allowed to get away with the list of sordid allies he has built up in his past. What other politician could get away with this?

Hitchens goes from the lunacy of that to the ridiculous speeches Obama has been allowed to get away with - especially the one he gave upon winning.

We have a politician here called David Cameron who tried two seconds of this sort of guff by talking about 'letting the sun shine through', or something, and he was nearly eaten alive by the press. Although, funnily enough, when Obama spewed the same sort of tripe, the journalists who criticised Cameron here, grovelled before Obama.

Hitchens summarises:

"The United States, having for the most part a deeply conservative people, had until now just about stood out against many of the mistakes which have ruined so much of the rest of the world.

"Suspicious of welfare addiction, feeble justice and high taxes, totally committed to preserving its own national sovereignty, unabashedly Christian in a world part secular and part Muslim, suspicious of the Great Global Warming panic, it was unique.

"These strengths had been fading for some time, mainly due to poorly controlled mass immigration and to the march of political correctness. They had also been weakened by the failure of America’s conservative party – the Republicans – to fight on the cultural and moral fronts.

"They preferred to posture on the world stage. Scared of confronting Left-wing teachers and sexual revolutionaries at home, they could order soldiers to be brave on their behalf in far-off deserts. And now the US, like Britain before it, has begun the long slow descent into the Third World. How sad. Where now is our last best hope on Earth?"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1084111/PETER-HITCHENS-The-night-waved-goodbye-America--best-hope-Earth.html

john doe

My God...some people on here really do like the sound of their own voice. Too much verbal diarrhoea. I think some commenters here are writing full blown long winded op-eds. Tiresome. Whatever happened to keeping it short and simple.
Apropos the layout...I recommend the Little Green Footballs system. It's very user friendly with the comments box at the bottom, numbered comments and quote/reply options. Pity about what's happening over there though with CJ demonising and banning Robert Spencer of all people. Tragic.

Joe Camel

The Wall Street Journal seems to have found a bright side to look at. There’s an interview with Rahm Emanuel in Saturday’s paper. An excerpt:

“Mr. Emanuel has a reputation as a bullying political operative who stops at nothing to fill seats in Congress with Democrats. In 2006, he made a tactical decision to recruit candidates who opposed abortion rights and gun control to run in more conservative-leaning districts. It meant passing over more ideologically pure candidates, which didn’t sit well with some orthodox liberals. [. . .] An Obama administration could very well be planning to govern from the center.”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122611134918910647.html

Rob

Many of the comments on this blog scare the piss out of me; the ignorance aout the world, political understanding and the hatred and fear.

Obama is not a socialist. He could just about fit onto the right of the spectrum defined in Europe as "social democrat" I hope so. I cn never understand what the right, and particularly the brain dead variety posting on here, don't like about people receiving medical treatment according to need rather than the ability to pay, why obscene inequality is not good for social cohesion, why protecting the environment is a good thing, why supporting corrupt regimes does not win friends... it really isn't rocket science - even Sarah Palin might begin to understand.

The west is more in danger from the craven support for the vile Saudi regime than it is from talking to pragmatic politicians in Iran, for example.

The US now has an articulate leader who is broadly supported around the world. The sad and mad neocons and rednecks, who delight in their ignorance aand anti intellectualism lost last week and good riddance.

Colin West

Now that the UAS has 'suspend[ed].. reason' and replaced it with 'thuggery', opened the way 'for sharia law to be imposed upon America’s banking system', provided solace to 'enemies of [...] freedom and the west', by electing a man who 'Pals around with terrorists' -- I can only hope that good conservatives, like Mel (if I may), Peter Hitchens and Sarah Palin keep the courage of their convictions and declare war on the United States of America. After all if these were good enough reasons for war in Iraq and Afghanistan -- and for bravely supporting the Isareli invasion of Lebanon -- it would be invidious and irrational for my fellow conservatives not to advocate the same military decision to this disgraceful democratic decision.

Dixon

john doe
November 9th, 2008 11:39am:
"Apropos the layout...I recommend the Little Green Footballs system. It's very user friendly with the comments box at the bottom, numbered comments and quote/reply options. Pity about what's happening over there though with CJ demonising and banning Robert Spencer of all people. Tragic."

Now you mention it... Much as I recommend LGF still, I think that CJ has gone a few cycle trips too far. As a poster who supported all the core themes of the site I was utterly appalled to find my comments twisted and traduced into "holocaust denial". What I had actually said was that there ARE some people who deny the holocaust, not that I was one of them. He knew this full well but popped up on the thread to selectively mis-quote me and suggest I was a holocaust denier. Then at about 4AM UK time, when I was in bed, asked me to refute this charge!

I hurriedly logged on next day to post my unambiguous deneial of being a denier...only to find I had been banned without being given the opportunity.

Thats LGF CJ's perverse version of "justice" and "democracy". His personally skewed "take" on the things he sets himself up as championing!

Verity

BTW, does anyone know why, at their victory party, Michelle was wearing an old couch cover? Couldn't she have had some outfits sent over to choose from? Or maybe she did! She's no Jackie Kennedy, that is for sure.

Dixon

EC
November 8th, 2008 10:22pm:
" In defence of programmers I would say that if the "illiteratti"(sic)of blogosphere cannot be bothered to use the slider bar and/or if the inconvenience and discomfort of making FREE use of these facilities becomes too unbearable then blog off elsewhere."

Simple fact forgotten by those who take broadband for granted ( paid for ):
YOU CANNOT USE THE SLIDER BAR UNTIL THE PAGE HAS LOADED, WHICH, WHEN IT IS THIS LONG, TAKES AGES ON DIAL-UP! IF YOU TRY, IT JUST KEEPS FLIPPING BACK TO THE TOP!

My comment about programmers, had you read it properly, clearly did not refer to forums or the internet but applications, such as in graphics programs, in which there are thousands of nuances accessed by conditional application of a few input variables, resulting in a requirement that the user carefully navigate every mouse-click.

Perhaps the corollary to “verbal diahorrea” that you mention is your own “gadfly eye”, skimming across the surface of the written world blithely misinterpreting the opinions or statements of everyone around you!

Verity

I'd like to note how much I appreciate Jill, and others, showing the British how insisting that legislators listen to the electorate is done. I lived in the US for several years and was impressed by how Americans would formulate group actions and insist that legislators act as the electorate wishes.

They don't do that in Britain, which is why Tony Blair, and now Gordon Brown, got away with ramming programmes through that the electorate didn't want, and dismissing criticism with a sneer. It's why Gordon Brown broke, without apology, his firm election commitment not to sign Britain into the Lisbon Treaty. And had the unutterable gall to say, "Oh, it isn't a real treat, so it's OK." The British should have stormed No 10 (except they are frightened of the riot police which have almost Stasi-like powers now; but the British have allowed this to happen).

Protest in Britain is individual and ineffective. Someone will sit down and spend hours crafting a letter to an MP in the hope that it will impress him/her with its eloquence and reason. He'll get some standard, "Thank you for your input" response and that will be the end of that.

I have urged American style group action for years - bullying, if you will - those people who are supposed to be representing the electorate, not their own interests and career advancement.

The Americans have a firm grasp of this, and organise themselves and utilise the power of the group. Three or four thousand emails in a legislator's mailbox from constituents who all say, "Do not vote for this measure", has a mystical resonance for someone who wants to get reelected and continue their privileged life.

I hope the Americans posting will keep us all up to date on the results of their lobbying. It would be nice to see the Brits take the gloves off and deliver a few blows to the body politic.

(Bringing back the unutterly vile wide boy Peter Mandelson is but the latest demonstration of the contempt in which Gordon Brown holds the voters.)

The British voter would do well to take a lesson from our more effective American cousins.

Israel

Colin West:

Very good p[oint mate, but expect some of the worst types on this blog to try to sneer at what you have written (Embrace it!! Think of it as a rite of passage)

Ronnie: Robert Byrd has been on record reffering to his regret for his decision to join the Klan. He knows it will always be a stick used to beat him with but i'm sure he can handle. I meant to add that but l did write my post during the boxing so got distracted.

Frank P! An American! Verity! Jill! Cabbie!

Five days now and nothing from your girl Melanie!! Is she ill?

Dixon

Verity
November 9th, 2008 2:20am
"Sue - Do you mean your post seriously or as a bit of Marx Brothers? What's your real name? Heath Robinson? (Or, if you're American, Rube Goldberg? We're bilingual in these parts.)"

What Sue said makes absolute sense. Its a very convenient technique. Verity, you do know that its possible to run several programs at once dont you? Even several browsers all showing different parts of the same web-page! Such as one of this page on the comment you are referring to and another of this page at the comments box, ready for you to put things into it.

I agree that IT people often get blinded to the needs of the non-specialist in that sphere, but as a person who last had computer training thirty years ago when programs were entered on punch cards I have to agree also with those who comment upon your need to learn at leasta little about the tools you use... and not rant off at people who are only trying to offer advice.

Frank P

Great PW thread: Freedom will survive!
http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=13619#comments

Verity

EC, who doesn't seem to have an official voice at The Speccie, nevertheless chooses to speak for them by writing:

"In defence of programmers I would say that if the "illiteratti"(sic)of blogosphere cannot be bothered to use the slider bar and/or if the inconvenience and discomfort of making FREE use of these facilities becomes too unbearable then blog off elsewhere."

Regarding the commentariat, who contribute to the blog FREE, if they took their orders from you and blogged off elsewhere, the Speccie wouldn't have a blog any more would it?

Sue

Frank P, I'm glad you received my suggestion about writing responses in a document the way it was intended. I was merely offering a possible solution to what to many has been a frustrating situation. Verity on the other hand accuses me of being a "bully and boring", which makes no sense to me. And uses my misspelling of the word dilemma to have another go.

Anyway Frank, thank you for your graciousness.

Frank P

Barry H

Thanks for the Hitchens link; I usually give either of the Hitchens Bros a miss lately as it would need a very good psychoanalyst, if there is such a thing, to work out the motivation of either. Both once from the deep left and each transmogrified in different ways; their fraternal antagonism, commercially exploited; the external and internal inconsistencies make it almost impossible to take either seriously and without suspicion, except as exceptional wordsmiths, which both undoubtedly are. Has anyone a rational explanation for Christopher swallowing the Obama obfuscation? Did perhaps he and Peter agree to take different viewpoints to jazz up the polemical schism? How do you figure someone who takes on the appalling Galloway in public, then snuggles up to The One? It can't just be the effects of the bottle.

Those reservations aside, Peter does describe particularly well, in this article, the Obama phenomenon. It also exposes the impotence of truly objective investigative journalism and the so-called New Media (including blogworld). The liberal MSM called the shots throughout this campaign from start to finish, as it has for the past half century and will continue to do as it speeds up the implementation of the revised and now not-so-covert counter-cultural soviet scheme. There is no ‘hope’ and the only ‘change’ will be a swerve to the left by the one country that I thought was probably the most resistant to the scourge of 'socialism'.

Btw - you're not Barry Humphries of this parish, incognito (almost) and in serious mode, are you?

Frank P

Israel

No, Melanie is not ill. As someone has already indicated she is still in operational mode as you can see from her right hand side-bar - a piece for NRO, read it, it's great. She is undoubtedly involved in busy-ness, not necessarily within these shores as she is much travelled. The short hiatus here will very likely result in further interesting stuff for this blog in due course. Patience! It is touching, that given your persistent carping about her output, that you miss her so much. I thought you were just here to blow off and you can do that regardless, can't you? I suppose taking on Verity is too painful as she bites back. It’s easier sniping at Melanie, as he policy seems to be to let her logic speak for itself and just keep defining it the way it is.

Sue

Dixon wrote: “What Sue said makes absolute sense. Its a very convenient technique. Verity, you do know that its possible to run several programs at once dont you? Even several browsers all showing different parts of the same web-page! Such as one of this page on the comment you are referring to and another of this page at the comments box, ready for you to put things into it.”

Thanks for saying this Dixon. I’m a bit astounded that my simple suggestion provoked the accusation from Verity that I am both “a bully and boring”. I suppose I should be grateful that he can’t form an opinion on my wardrobe as well!
Anyway, I remind Jill and other like minded conservatives to check out http://www.freedommarch.org to join up in the grass roots efforts to resist the brass knuckles gang coming in to power.

*KEEPING THIS SPACE WARM FOR MELANIE UNTIL SHE RETURNS.

Augustus

Building on his extensive knowledge of geopolitics, his extensive study of the roots of Islam and the basis for the intense hatred of the West which is shared by a dangerous segment of Muslim Jihadists bent on our destruction; Bob, posting on Remembrance Sunday, 12.49pm, states with utter conviction that "many of the contents on this blog scare the piss out of me". He states, in effect, that supporting corrupt regimes is a jolly good way of winning friends.

Forgetting the crudeness of the man for a moment, are there actually people out there who believe that thoughts of friendship and cooperation are reciprocated? Surely it is obvious that the United States cannot count on China and Russia to dissuade Iran from building nuclear weapons? They are strategic partners, joined at the hip. They are itching to step into the vacuum created when Obama keeps his promise to abandon and pull out of Iraq. They seek to build a powerful surrogate in the region which will fill that vacuum, ensuring influence, access to oil, and the ability to strangle the world economy. The implications of a nuclear Iran, flush with billions in oil revenues, bent on the destruction of Israel (our eternal ally), armed by China and Russia, and able to choke the world's petrol pump, are simply too frightening to imagine. Unless, of course, you are, as Bob would know, 'brain dead'.

Barry H

Hi Frank,

No, I’m definitely not that Barry H - although I am a big fan!

I had a chat today with a South American academic and he is simply beside himself with what has happened. He has family back at home who watched the TV in silence as it all unfolded. From the way he described it to me, it was, as Ms Phillips
has called it, a “pinch yourself” moment for them.

Everyone knocks the only decent authority figure in the world we have had over the last eight years and who will prosper now the headmaster has been tied up? The bullies: Russia, China, Iran and so on.

Too many of this cosseted generation of Americans has taken their freedoms and - more importantly - what underpins their freedoms too lightly.

They are prepared to sacrifice what they have for the promise of a Utopia. Well, down in South America, they know just where such naivety leads.

He also referred me to this website. The bulk of its contents will, in some shape or from, probably be familiar to Ms Phillips’ regular readers. Nonetheless, it is breathtaking to see it all catalogued in one place.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1511

Pinch yourself indeed.

PS Pete Hoskin, if you do re-jig this website, can you leave the font size as is? The Telegraph's webpage font size for comments is tiny. I also like the clean look on these pages, not too busy and the column width is nice too.

Jill

Sue wrote on November 9th, 2008 4:49am

I've been searching on line for any grassroots groups getting started to resist the Obamanization of America. I've been particularly concerned about hints that Obama plans to try and get the 'fairness doctrine' reinstated, and also to have it drift over into sites on the internet.

[…]
Check it out: http://www.freedommarch.org
--------------------------

Jill responds: Thanks, Sue. I'll check them out. You might be interested in grassfire.org. There was a link at lucianne that said, "Join the Conservative Resistance." They offer blog space and email alerts. They are watching for the unfairness doctrine issue. They seem to rely on petitions, which I don't believe has the same power as personal phone calls, letters, and emails.

For example, Boehner (R-OH) changed from supporting the bail-out to rejecting it in twenty-four hours because of emails and phone calls. We know he eventually sold out (either because he is a moderate or because moderates pressured him).

I'm amazed that nine-million individual conservatives over-ruled majority conservative voices when the former refused to vote at all. Did you run into people who threatened not to vote because 'McCain is not conservative enough'? I ran into a few; I had no idea how many of them were out there. Well, they got their way and forced the rest of us to support them--"NOW!" Here we are.

We've come this far in getting rid of moderates (and amputating parts of our body); we might as well go the rest of the way and join forces. We cannot go back. We are just like the children of Israel, and there are giants in the land.

O has already started several online websites. One is for campaign contributions. He wants the donations from all over the world to keep pouring in, even though it is against the law and has overthrown our election process. Another new O website is for organizing and indoctrinating the population for the National Civilian Security Force.

We have several important disadvantages in comparison to the Marxists. We don't have the leisure time for activism. We aren't as rich as they are. We have to work. Our nature is different from the Marxists. We aren't sore losers like those who refuse to accept the outcome of a vote, like Prop 8. It's not our nature to overthrow the "will of the people." We ARE the people. Our willingness to follow rules has always been a disadvantage, but we won't give up integrity. We will find our way.

We'll have plenty of support and listening ears once O starts in January "fixing" the economy and "saving" the world. Keep stubborn faith :)

Maybe I'll see you at either of the resistance websites.

Nice talking to you. :)

Ronnie

Augustus, you seem to have missed the fact that Iran has, over the past few years, already stepped into the vacuum created by the invasion and disintegration of Iraq.

Your strategic 'thinking' is so far behind actual events that I must ask you where you have been all this time? Or are you another of those who have talked themselves into thinking that the current situation is stable, made possible by the all-singing, all-dancing surge?

Jill

Fellow Traveler writes to Jill: "Henry Lamb is the chairman of Sovereignty International and founder of the Environmental Conservation Organization (ECO)."

Just a bit of background on Henry: Sovereignty International is a wacko collection of right-wingers that claims the united Nations is using environmental regulations to establish a "one world government".

The Environmental Conservation Organisation is one of those wacky groups that does the opposite of what it sounds like: it's a front for land developers to fight against regulations that preserve your environment, and funded by them.
----------------------------

Jill responds: You mean he defends Constitutional property rights of all Americans, current and future, from abusive drunk-on-power government controllers hypocritically using environmentalism as justification to privately enrich themselves off the labor of private citizens that pay taxes and provide jobs while simultaneously empowering those intent on overthrowing our form of government? Go Lamb! I like him even better.

Emmet

Mr Cameron, if western civilization was built on the Enlightenment, as you say, then, by implication, western civilization didn't exist before the eighteenth century. So, Plato, Aristotle, Roger Bacon, Copernicus, Isaac Newton, etc etc had nothing to do with western civilization. Oh, and the humane ideas of western civilization, (such as the sacredness of human life), were built on the ideas of a guy called Jesus, who lived 2000 years ago. He too, by your definition, had nothing to do with western civilization. Even the Enlightenment writers, if you had ever bothered to read them, admitted that their notions of human rights were based on Christian principles. Please refrain from making such silly comments in future.

Twinky Winky Pony Palin

"Freedom", as Melanie states and as we all know, "Now Stands Alone." Although it is never made clear where "Freedom" actually is.

I'm guessing Georgia. Possibly Alaska. Shangri-La? Unfortunately Melanie gives no clues.

But after 411 exhaustive posts, I believe we have finally arrived at the nub of the issue:

Should the comments box appear at the top or bottom of the blog?

I'm not quite sure where Jesus stands on this critical matter.

EC

Frank P: Most of us, it seems, are here to support Melanie and her seemingly inexhaustible efforts to enlighten us with excellent research and splendid analysis.

Exactly so. I also enjoy reading certain commenters who can also be informative. As for the rest, I have said before that there is enough material here for a psychology PhD thesis.

As for the comments box, I really don't care where 'they' put it but I could make a novel suggestion. Nothing is perfect, and if the page is slow to load then Dixon could always get to grips with putting the kettle on whilst he's waiting for his golden elephants to arrive.

Dixon: "... but as a person who last had computer training thirty years ago when programs were entered on punch cards ..."

Stand by for that call from those Speccie Techies!

AND, you'll probably also deny that the first "diahorrea" to be found on this thread was yours. Literally.

HarleyDavidson

No conservative idea was beaten "fair and square" by Obama. None. Or does "fair and square" mean a completely one sided media, domestically and internationally, who shamelessly cheered for Obama and write puff pieces about the boy wonder. While at the same time viciously attacking Palin especially day after day after day after day. When the domestic media ran out of attack material they gleefully "borrowed" puff pieces or attack pieces from the international media.

Fact: Does anyone know where Obama stands on the new aggressive Russia? Besides saying Georgia and Russia were both at fault that is?

Does anyone know where Obama stands on terror groups anywhere in the world?

Does anyone know where Obama stands on African leaders who do little but rip their peoples off and the many wars ongoing on that continent?

Does anyone know where Obama stands on North Korea? On Iran? On Iraq? On Afghanistan? On Pakistan?

How, for instance, does one "give" a tax cut to people who pay no tax?

How will Obama "find" the money to "pay" for his health care plan?

Will the Iraq war suddenly end in January? In Afghanistan? Will the terror groups in the middles east and elsewhere throw down their arms and stop their reign of terror even to their own peoples?

Will Israel suddenly find itself at peace now the Messiah walks amongst us again?

Will the "world" economy blossom in January? With a democratic total majority in all houses?

Will China and India suddenly stop selling child labor products to the US? Will the big three auto makers suddenly become profitable again? Or will unions stop holding the big three hostage while "foreign" auto makes stop selling to "help" the big three auto makers?

Will America suddenly "discover" domestic oil and gas and make themselves self-sufficient like Obama promised? That is without oil and gas from Canada? From Mexico? From Venezuela? From the Middle East?

Will America suddenly find all the "green" energy and replace oil and gas as Obama promised?

Did Obama "explain" where, how or even when any of this was supposed to happen? That is "different" than George Bush was doing all along?

There's "kookaide" folks have been drinking. That can be cured by refusing to drink anymore. Then there's downright stupid and that can't be cured.

Frank P

Barry H

> Nonetheless, it is breathtaking to see it all catalogued in one place, [62 pages of it inclduding sources]:

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1511 <

Indeed it is thanks very much for that, I've read much of it in segments, but not all of it in once piece before. It would be interesting to know whether there is anyone in ANY of the mainstream papers in this country who would be prepared to run this as a story. Panorama would be a start on TV. The guts of it should be picked by a journalist from this Magazine, too: how about it Andrew/Matthew? Melanie has done her bit: follow through!

Not only are the American electorate being kept in the comparative darkness, the UK Obamaflock are too.

Hayward Maberley

Jill,
Israel seems to have had more time than me over the weekend but here goes.

“Between 1979 and 9/11, ten thousand American civilians died due to terrorists.”

An interesting figure but from where did you obtain it.
I have done fairly comprehensive searches in databases and journals and the most I can come up with up until 1993 is not exact but somewhere between 80 and 90. In 1995 it jumps considerably due to the Oklahoma bombing, another 165. The attacks of 11 September 2001 added 2,992. This gives a maximum total of somewhere around 3,247. Where do the other 7.000 plus come from.

“You also seem not to understand that since WWII, Republicans controlled the house for only twelve years (not consecutively.) They controlled the senate for only fourteen years (not consecutively.) “

But from 1994 , with the Contract with America, Newt Gingrich, Tom DeLay the Republicans controlled the House and The Senate until the end of 2006. That alone is 12 years. They only lost control at the start of 2007. Furthermore there was a Republican Administration in from 2000.

Maybe the 2 FMS contributed to a certain extent but this was not the prime cause of the Wall Street Debacle. It was caused by, as ex Fed Chairman Greenspan admits, with a mea maxima culpa to Congress, a “cheap money” policy.
This led banks/finance & mortgage providers to...
Aggressively sell loans/undercut each other;
Take on "CEO's" with obscene amounts in bail out packages/short term bonus payments;
Lend people more money than the house they were buying was worth;
Have managers neglecting the fundamental principles of lending that they were taught in economics/finance at university through greed/hubris/stupidity;
Provide ever more finance to developers when it was evident that buyers were defaulting on mortgages.
All happened under the current Republican Administration.
The most culpable are the packagers of the debts created. For their wonderful "securitisation”, such a decent sounding word for an indecent practice what in truth is the selling of debt as an asset.
Once packaged up and securitised, the packagers, merchant banks/broker dealers say Lehmann Brothers, somehow have a ratings agency, say Moodys give what is actually debt a rating as though it were an asset. Then to cover their arses they, Lehmann Bros take this faux rating to an insurer, say AIG, and have them insure against default. Thus the round of mutual pocket pissing begins and continues.
Then someone from Goldman Sachs, say Hank Paulson pushes a case to the SEC to allow a certain five firms to legally violate existing net capital rules that, in the past 30 years, had limited broker dealers debt-to-net capital ratio to 12-to-1. The SEC chief Steve Cox, a Bush appointee agrees. This exemption, only given to these five firms , allowed them to leverage up to 30, even 40 to 1 Who were the five that received this special exemption? Bear Stearns, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley. The result after 4 years of big bonuses for the erstwhile Masters Of The Universe? Three of the special Five have gone to the wall and the Wall Street Debacle has swept around the financial world and is now hitting the real world. An allegation being made by Lee Pickard, a former SEC official,, who says that rule change in 2004 led to the failure of Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch.
"The SEC allowed five firms,the three that have collapsed plus Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley , to more than double the leverage they were allowed to keep on their balance sheets, and remove discounts that had been applied to the assets they had been required to keep to protect them from defaults."
Making matters worse, according to Pickard, who helped write the original rule in 1975 as director of the SEC's trading and markets division, is a move by the SEC this month to further erode the restraints on surviving broker dealers by withdrawing requirements that they maintain a certain level of rating from the ratings agencies.
"They constructed a mechanism that simply didn't work," Pickard said. "The proof is in the pudding — three of the five broker dealers have blown up."
Moral Hazard is ignored by those erstwhile MOTU. They know they will be bailed out by Governments or through government intervention. Just as in the S&L and LTCM. Now the WSD, whose cost could increase the US deficit, yet again to close to US$1.5 trillion and is sure to bump the National Debt past the US$9.5 trillion already forecast for 2009.
Yet for these erstwhile MOTU there is a Santa Claus, it is the long suffering taxpaying citizen of the USA, who gets to pay the bill for some more Republican Fiscal Irresponsibility.
Finally for those who still like to crap on about Republican "Fiscal Resposibility"
It is interesting to note that from 1978-2005 under Democratic Presidents, Federal Spending went up by 9.9%. Federal Debt by 4.2%, GDP by 12.6%.
For the same period under Republican Presidents Federal Spending was up 12.1%, Federal Debt by 36.4% , GDP by 10.7%
So which is the big spending, big debt and drag on the economy party?

Verity

Sue and Dixon (if memory serves) - I was curt because I think it is counterproductive to suggest further inconvenience as a solution to solving a problem, viz, the upside down nature of this comments section.

It is the core problem which should be fixed. This whole section, which was apparently designed by a designer who is no longer there - hopefully consigned to programme designer hell - loses comments and malfunctions in other ways.

I don't want to be put to the inconvenience of working round their problem by opening more windows.

Pete has said he is bringing these malfunctions to the attention of someone.

Jill

Max, are you concerned about the trade agreement?

Augustus

@ Ronnie, Nov.9th, 6.07pm

You are blinkered if you believe that radical Islam has completed its spread from the Mid East into Europe and the United States. The indoctrination of millions of young Muslims who will grow up preaching hatred of the West and all 'non-believers'. Who will then supply and train recruits for the next generation of Jihadists bent on the destruction of our civilization. The dream of a Caliphate that stretches across Europe, and some day across North America is already being financed by petrodollars from Saudi Arabia, who are cheerleaders and active participants for radical Islam. Americans do not see the reality - that the world's richest economy has been actively financing jihad against America while pretending to be a staunch ally in the region. And you are surely also blinkered if you do not think that the threat from a nuclear Iran, financed by Russia and China in terms of reactors, weapons and infrastructure, is somehow unreal, or only in the minds of right-wing elements. And with regard to Iraq, I can only comment that I believe the situation would have been more secure in the hands of a retired Vietnam war veteran like McCain, rather than in Obama's hands. Obama is a radical to the bone. His Democratic platform in no way resembles the Democratic platform espoused by President John F Kennedy, in fact I doubt in fact if John Kennedy would agree with Obama on very much at all.

Tim

Correct as always Melanie.

Celia

Ronnie, Iran has been doing what it has been doing since 1979. Nothing is going to stop that government plotting apart from a thumping good wallop.

As to Rob (November 9th, 2008 12:49pm): “Obama is not a socialist. He could just about fit onto the right of the spectrum defined in Europe as "social democrat".

Heaven forfend the Messiah should use that word! But what else would call someone whose mentor was Frank Marshall Davis, a member of the Soviet-controlled Communist Party USA?

Obama himself was so ashamed of this mentoring, he gives only the Christian name Frank in ‘Dreams of my Father’. So affectionate for this man and yet to shy about him. It was left to others to find out what the surname was and then the jigsaw comes together.

Rob‘s venom goes on. Posters here are people who “don't like… people receiving medical treatment according to need rather than the ability to pay”. But no-one said this. Of course people should be treated according to need but that doesn’t have to be via an incompetent state system.

One ‘need’ that we certainly shouldn’t be paying for is the legions of health tourists who come here year after year.

“Obscene inequality is not good for social cohesion” - where did you pluck this out of, Rob? Who has argued for obscene inequality here?

Again: “Protecting the environment is a good thing”, who here said it wasn’t. Just because you don’t believe in global warming, it doesn’t mean you want the environment ‘attacked’.

BTW just to show how far the man-made global warming witch hunt has spread, David Bellamy reveals how the BBC seem to have dropped him as soon as he revealed he was a sceptic:

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/69623

Rob, where have these self-righteous delusions come from?

Too much time looking at The Guardian perhaps?

Ronnie

Jill writes, 'We have several important disadvantages in comparison to the Marxists. We don't have the leisure time for activism. We aren't as rich as they are. We have to work. Our nature is different from the Marxists. We aren't sore losers'

It must be great to be a Marxist. They are on holiday all the time and never have to work. They are stinking rich, allowing them to spend their endless leisure time on their yachts. Yip, sounds like a bunch of classical Marxists to me. You can see them rushing to branches of Thomas Cook at lunchtimes...

I can see why you nuts are all so afraid of the Marxists (at every corner), they are holiday makers and there is nothing worse. Just remember, while all Marxists are holiday makers, not all holiday makers are Marxists.

And Jill, of course you are not a sore loser, you are just looking for resistance groups to join.

'Snow White in 2012'.

Ronnie

Augustus, thank you for telling me all this even though I don't understand why you feel the need. You have ignored my point, much as you seem to ignore a great deal of what is going on around you, and wondered off into your own end-of-the-bar monologue.

I would, however, like your views on the very close relationship between the Saudi royal family and the leaders of the current Republican adminstration in Washington. It seems that the Bush family, and others, does not share your suspicions. Now, can you focus on that for a minute?

Celia, you are absolutely correct regarding the Iranian government. As they like to say out west, 'hanging is too good for these people, its a good kick up the backside they need.'

Jill

tinky winky brings up "Alaska."

Interesting. I read that only Alaska and Washington DC are safe from recession right now.
------------------------------
To you Marxist clowns (you know who you are):

Jesus rules and reigns forever. Get over it!

Sue

Howard Maberley wrote: “Provide ever more finance to developers when it was evident that buyers were defaulting on mortgages.
All happened under the current Republican Administration.”

The following URL will take you to an excellent article in the Wall Street Journal which refutes your charges against the Republican legislature.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122212948811465427.html?mod=googlenews_wsj#printMode

Sue

If you're looking for a good read while waiting for Melanie to gear up, try this:

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd411.htm

Jill

Thomas writes: Jill writes, 'We have several important disadvantages in comparison to the Marxists. We don't have the leisure time for activism. We aren't as rich as they are. We have to work. Our nature is different from the Marxists. We aren't sore losers' It must be great to be a Marxist. They are on holiday all the time and never have to work. They are stinking rich, allowing them to spend their endless leisure time on their yachts. Yip, sounds like a bunch of classical Marxists to me. You can see them rushing to branches of Thomas Cook at lunchtimes...

Jill: You haven’t paid much attention. And why defend Marxists?

Thomas writes: I can see why you nuts are all so afraid of the Marxists (at every corner), they are holiday makers and there is nothing worse. Just remember, while all Marxists are holiday makers, not all holiday makers are Marxists.

Jill: You don’t make sense.

Thomas: And Jill, of course you are not a sore loser, you are just looking for resistance groups to join.

Jill: Scared, eh? Sore losers are those losers protesting prop 8. They seek to overthrow the process and the will of the people; thereby denying fellow citizens a voice. Losers are intolerant of dissent. They demand uniformity. They throw temper tantrums and threaten public safety until they get their way. Winners (grown ups) accept the results of elections without rioting or party leaders lecturing the citizens who disagree with them. Conservatives are defending your freedom to vote in the next election through the process, our process that you praise when it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling and self-centeredly rip to shreds when it doesn’t. Your teachers failed you.

Thomas: 'Snow White in 2012'

Jill: ‘Opie and Barney 2008’

Jill

Well, so much for the process...What the hell is Biden and Obama saying the world needs to control the "American resisters" for? ...

Can anyone confirm any of this?
-----------------------------
Warnings from world leaders all within 72 hours
"Australian PM Kevin Rudd - “Nuke strike would make 9/11 insignificant” and other weird warnings"

"Over the last 72 hours there has been a strange melange of cryptic messages leaked from world political leaders about what could be in store for America over the next few months.

These predictions of impending doom come from England, France, Australia and the United States.

Biden told the top Democratic donors that a “generated crisis” will develop within six months and Barak Obama will need the help of community leaders to control the population as unpopular decisions are made and Americans resist.

Biden speaking at the fundraiser, “I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate, And he’s gonna need help. And the kind of help he’s gonna need is, he’s gonna need you - not financially to help him - we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.”

Biden’s ominous language at the Seattle Sheraton are followed with statements by long time establishment insiders Colin Powell and Madeline Albright both say there is a massive crisis on the horizon and Biden was simply making a “statement in fact.”

“The problems will always be there and there’s going to be a crisis which will come along on the 21st, 22nd of January that we don’t even know about right now.” Powell told Meet the Press.

Lord West, adviser to Prime Minister Gordon Brown on national security says, “There is another great plot building up again and we are monitoring. It dipped slightly and is now rising again within the context of severe. The threat is huge. We have done all the things that we need to do, but the threat is building - the complex plots are building,”

Across the channel from England you have the French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner warning the press that he believes Israel will strike Iran before they can develope nuclear weapons completley ignoring the fact that the chief of the International Atomic Energy Agency, Mohammed ElBradei, said that Iran lacks the key components to produce an atomic weapon.

“The devastation that could be wreaked by one major nuclear weapons incident alone puts 9/11 and almost everything else [in] to the category of the insignificant,” Rudd said.

Why are there so many high level politicians around the world in a seemingly coordinated effort warning of huge threats and developing crisis’ that may include a nuclear device? Are they preparing the masses for an event or series of events that have been in the making for some time? Is the public being prepared for new and forming enemies with a potential to plunge the entire world into war?"
----end quote---

A number of notable public figures, to be sure; Biden, Rudd, Colin Powell, Matelaine Albright, Lord West and French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner. Taken alone there are plenty of ready explanations, but within 72hrs.?

Are there any more recent examples out there?

(Daily News Caster)

---------------------------

if you ask me, it sounds like an insider plot to take over America so them can oppress the world without challenge. If this is so, then Obama is a manchurian candidate.

See, this is the stuff we keep seeing, and we're not supposed to be scared? We aren't supposed to run out and buy more guns and load up on amunition?

Ok, count ten...we need confirmation.

Dixon

Jill said:
“Between 1979 and 9/11, ten thousand American civilians died due to terrorists.”

Hayward Maberley replied:
November 9th, 2008 8:01pm

"An interesting figure but from where did you obtain it.
I have done fairly comprehensive searches in databases and journals and the most I can come up with up until 1993 is not exact but somewhere between 80 and 90. In 1995 it jumps considerably due to the Oklahoma bombing, another 165. The attacks of 11 September 2001 added 2,992. This gives a maximum total of somewhere around 3,247. Where do the other 7.000 plus come from."

I dont think a numbers game is really relevant, but if you are going to contest it, Hayward, then youve blundered already by leaving out the 250 killed by one bomb at a barracks in 1982. The 300 odd passengers on the Lockerbie flight. The Americans aboard the Korean Air 007 flight in 1983, So thats nearly ten times the number of "90" thatyour "extensive searches" turned up in the period 1079-1993! Just for starters, off the top of me ed!

My hunch is you are too young to remember these events. It again illustrates the dangerously misleading effect of the "pseudo-knowledge" that is provided by the internet. Discussing this with my brother, a mathematician, back in 1980 ( yes, many years before most people outside of science fiction circles had even imagined an internet ) he pointed out to my youthful chagrin that its not possible to look up data on a topic if you dont know that topic exists. I'll illustrate that by saying "Achille Lauro". Ever heard of it Hayward?

To further illustrate thius, on another thread I asked...rhetorically...who remembers "Death of a Princess"? Someone replied by suggesting "put death of a princess in Google" . Doh!

Peter Barry

But the Obama Messiah is a LIAR and he is STILL fighting tooth and nail NOT to produce his 'vault' birth certificate . What has he got to hide? He is also a PROVEN LIAR when he says he has ALWAYS been a Christian when documentary proof exists which shows that at the MULTI FAITH school he attended in Indonesia where he could have resgisterd in ANY faith he was a registered MUSLIM and even too additional NON COMPULSORY Koranic studies. That is not to mention the countless LIES he has told about his past associates and his membership of a Black Supremacist Church closely allied to Louis Farakhand and the Nation of Islam. The Obaminator with the compliance of a gutless left wing MSM has been elected.

Conservative Cabbie

Ronnie

"Giulian's approach was arrogant and lazy"

He was confused by the GOP system of giving all the delegates to the winner of a state. In theory, if he had won Florida, he might well have been successful, but as Josh Lyman in The West Wing says, it's all about the big mo'.

Rufus T Firefly

hi, Verity

I notice that your poster girl, Sarah Palin, could not identify Mexico, your present country of domicile, as one of the nations of North America (or Canada, for that matter).

Do you feel that your love is perhaps unrequited?

Conservative Cabbie

Israel

My, that was an interesting diatribe you made in response to Jill against those of us on the right.

Hypocrites, morons, scumbags - interesting phraseology, glad to see the power of rational arguement is alive and well in Israel's world.

If you don't mind, I'd like to deal with some of the issues you raised, as those were my values you were attacking.

Abortion - If I remember rightly, it was you that made the oh-so rational arguement a while ago that life begins at birth because otherwise we wouldn't get birthday cards. I'm going to assume you were being flippant because I'm not so sure that that is an acceptable philosophical, scientific or theological arguement. Like social conservatives, I believe life begins at conception. For many, that is a religious value, for me it is a philosophical one. However, whichever way one arrives at the belief, it is completely unacceptable to condone abortion under any circumstance save to protect the life of the mother. Circumstances involving rape or incest are unbelievably tragic, but one cannot justify abortion even in those circumstances if one believes in a living foetus. as a thought experiment, imagine this scenario. You believe in life at birth presumably, now imagine a young girl who gives birth to a baby that was conceived as a result of rape but the constant reminder that the baby gives to the girl of that horrible event is to much and she decides to kill the baby. Would you find that unacceptable? Hopefully your answer is yes. The only difference between that scenario and the value that I have is the question of when life starts. I'm prepared to debate that philosophical point with you but to call me a scumbag because of a philosophical difference seems somewhat excessive. I should add, as a man, whilst feeling strongly about abortion, I recognise that it would be next to impossible for me to understand how a woman feels in really trying circumstances and thus, whils opposing abortion, I'm never judgemental.

Death penalty - I'm actually against the death penalty and I believe it is a stain on a great country. However, finding a moral equivalence between the killing of an innocent life and that of a disgusting piece of humanity like a murderer is so liberal and so wrong.

Abstinence - So you believe that encouraging young people to value relationships and to learn personal responsibility is somehow wrong. Of course, your way leads to child poverty, teenage pregnancy and a welfare dependent society - nice!

I'm lead to believe, usually by self-congratulatory liberals themselves, that liberalism speaks the language of tolerance. I find it amusing that these so-called defenders of diversity only value the kind of diversity that suits their own political end. Well if the double standards that you've just portrayed is an example of the modern liberal, thank God I'm a conservative!

On the number of conservatives in the US, I'm going to have to take issue with both you and Jill. You are right to contend the view that most people in the US are conservative. 28.7% of people this year referred to themselves as conservative, this figure is statistically insignificant compared to the 2004 figure of 30% - so there aren't less conservatives in America just because Obama won the election. Your listing of the votes in states was very impressive, it just served no purpose in proving your point. you made the mistake of confusing republican and conservative, there are a number of conservatives registered as Democrats too. All your facts did was support the fact that in one election, the Democratic nominee did better than the Republican one. To determine a seismic shift, you would need a pattern and one election does not a pattern make.

Good day Israel, now stop calling me a moronic scumbag!

Ray

Grief! 432 blog comments by 0853hrs on Monday. Is this a world record even by Melanie Phillips standards?

Ronnie

Dixon, I don't want to butt-in here but I do know that Hayward certainly doesn't rely only on the internet for his information. I'm sure he'll come back with full chapter and verse on his day job. However, that doesn't mean that what he sasy is indisputable. For example, in your case, it wasn't just US citizens who were killed at Lockerbie.

As for mentioning the 'Achille Lauro' as some kind of test, that's just a little patronising I think.

Ronnie

Conservative Cabbie, what ARE we going to do for the next few years? There are courses, distance learning, that could satiate our demands. Its the only thing I can think of to fill the gap.

phil

Rufus Firefly ,is that really where she lives -it could account for the hot flushes and fiery remarks due to the chillies consumed .very incandescent stuff.

Ronnie

Jill, I think Thomas, if I may speak for him, was pointing out that your hilarious inability to properly identify Marxists crucially weakens your capacity to oppose them effectively.

The parts of Thomas's post that you don't understand were, he tells me, weak attempts at ironic humour. He apologises.

Thomas also tells me, by sat. phone from his yacht, that he would be grateful if you and your conservative friends would stop defending his right to vote as he prefers to do that himself. He is very careful about the associations he makes in case people use them against him in the future.

Conservative Cabbie

Rob

"don't like about people receiving medical treatment according to need rather than the ability to pay,"

Yes, waiting year and a half for an operation is a good thing isn't it? Not being able to get the medication needed because N.I.C.E don't see the cost/benefit equation matching is just what the doctor ordered (or at least a doctor working in british socialised medicine). Having one of the lowest cancer survival rates in the western world is a fine dedication to your bugle call for socialised medicine.

"why obscene inequality is not good for social cohesion"

You're right, punishing the successful and bailing out the indolent is brilliant for social cohesion. It's just crap for the economy and it and goes against any rational notion of justice.

"why protecting the environment is a good thing,"

Protecting the environment from what exactly, nature? Yes we could attempt to protect the environment by forcing poor people in developing countries to rely on ineffective "green" technologies for power. Nevermind that it only impoverishes them further and hampers any hope of them developing. Perhaps we could legislate and force people to do things against their will because as is becoming apparent, the people aren't particularly important to the liberal mind, just the notion of governing is.

I noticed at the end of your comment, you refer to neocons and rednecks. I'm sorry, I didn't realise you didn't want to be taken seriously.

An American

Isreal,
Thank you for the compliment...you included me in the company of those I respect.

On another subject, I was recently among a large crowd of Americans for three days and many of them are still shell-shocked...The main question among them was how do we go about fighting what everyone perceives as a creeping Marxist agenda? People are feeling pretty helpless right now...Some suggested changing our voter rep. cards during this transition to 'Democrat' to better help us have more clout when we call or write the now dominant Democratic representatives in Congress...their staff do check for affiliation. And then change affliation back to Republican before important elections.
I believe that's what Democrats did in the primary to force McCain down our throats.
I'm at a quandry where to start...any good ideas to pass along.
All of this exchange of ideas is good and most are well intentioned, Isreal and a few others excluded, but we need to do more.

Richard Eis

Perhaps, just perhaps you should give the new president a chance before deciding he is the new satan. At least this one is literate and intelligent. That will make for a change at least. and when the alternative would be Palin after a couple of years can you really blame them for voting that way?

An American

Verity,
Thank you for my morning laugh. Michelle's victory dress did look like an old couch cover. I love British humor...This is one ugly woman. I'm sure our liberal press will continue to, for the next four years, tell us something different than what our eyes tell us...

An American

Conservative Cabbie,
Thank you for taking that smuck Isreal to task....your comments were right on...I always enjoy your insights.
I find it interesting that so many Brits take an interest in American politics...Thanks for the concern and support.

Conservative Cabbie

Ronnie

"Conservative Cabbie, what ARE we going to do for the next few years? "

I work nights so sleep during the day. When I get up, I still switch on the computer with the intention of checking the polls, I still watch Fox but there's no interesting electoral news anymore, the US states have less meaning for me now, (Ohio down 3, Colorado is a statistical tie etc). My life is now meaningless and sad, I sit here firing off missives about abortion or the state of conservatism in the vain hope that I can recapture some of the glorious partisanship of the past few months. I feel the need to call a liberal dumb or to pontificate on Obama's failings, but the will is no longer there.

God, I'm sad.

BTW - Great post on 'Thomas' being afraid to form associations. Made me laugh.

Conservative Cabbie

Richard Eis

We've had 18 months to form our opinions about Barack Obama, we've gone through a primary campaign and a general election and yet you expect us to 'give the new President a chance". You've known about Sarah Palin for just over a month and have already formed your opinion. Consistency we can believe in perhaps?

Israel

Cabbie:

I would never deem to call you a moronic scumbag due to the fact that l actually value your opinion as l find that you make rational arguements.

The moronic scumbags l refer to are the extreme christianists who seem at this point to dominate the leadership of the conservative movement, hence my disgust at those who have the loudest voices raised on the issue of abortion yet do not blink when saying yes to the death penalty or are ambivient to the deaths of innocents civilians due to the fact that they are "of the wrong faith". You cannot tell me that they do not exist as we have heard from them a lot over the last seven years.

You are right, l would be against a woman who has been raped and forced to bear the child killing it when it was born, anyone who says different has to be lying, but the difference is that l believe she should be given the choice as to weather or not she should have the child in the first place. It's not that this arguement has not happened before but one of the things that struck me as hypocritical (and l don't put you in this bracket) is the fact that the former Vice Presidntial nominee felt that it was perfectly suitable to leave the choice of having a baby and marrying the father up to her 17 year old daughter but was fighting hard to deny the same choice to women who were not in her family. Can you see why some would be more than a little angry?

On the death penalty there is no moral equivalence that can be made the only arguement comes to when you believe life begins. When you are on different sides of the arguement it's hard to find the middle ground.

I always shake my head on the abstinence arguement put forward by those who would promote it because they do their best to ignore the 2 ton mound of elephant droppings in the room, namely the fact that TEENAGERS ARE GOING TO HAVE SEX!! Isn't it better to make sure that, even though you have told them not to, you make sure that if they do they are safe from disease and unwanted prenancy? It's been a quater of a century since l have been a teenager (a depressing thought in itself) but l do remember being very annoyed by adults who try to lie to me. The 2 ton pile of elephant droppings just outside the door of the room is the fact that the US states which have the abstinenece only sex education are in the bible belt and also have the largest levels of teenage pregnancy. I think they even have that in Alaska but i'm not sure that all teens are actually getting the message.

I love the attemted switch on tolerance. It's one of the things that conservatives use to wind up liberals so they can use the "angry left" arguement. I'm sure you have had many liberals protest to you how tolerant they are, but me, l can't be bothered. There are self congratulary people on both sides of the arguement, and if you think that it's just on the liberal side then good luck to you, just don't go to certain towns in the south and say your against the death penalty, you may just find yourself run out of town tarred and feathered with a sign saying "Latte drinking liberal wuss" around your neck!!

You are correct that one election does not a seismic shift make, but the signs are good as far as liberals in the US can see. The question that has yet to be answered fully is how you are going to get the new younger voters who are coming in to switch over to the republicans if you consider that McCain's largest voting block were those over 50? I know people are living longer but that means that liberals aren't dying off quickly too, and they are younger!! You already have some battlelines being drawn between those who feel that Palin has betrayed and their should be a major shift to the right, and those who believe that what has gone on for the last eight years has been to the detriment of the conservatives and a consensus needs to be built. What l find weird is that in the last poll done amongst conservatives over who they would wantg in 2012 Romney finished ahead of Huckerbee with Palin third. A lot of people have tried to push Eric Cantor or former Hindu Piyush "Bobby" Jindal (making the same mistake with minorities as was done with women by picking Palin) to the front, what do you think?

Wew!! There is definately a new subject needed!! I may have to join in with some of the more feral elements of the hivemind on here and call for the comment box switch!!

I would try to say more about the "moronic scumbag" thing but quite frankly l have a vision in my head that l would just end up coming across like Alf Garnett in one of theose old "From Death Us Do Part" episodes where he tries to be nice to black people and ends up looking stupid!!

Augustus

Ronnie asks my views on the 'very close relationship' between Bush and the Saudi royal family. Well, perhaps he thinks he's picked up the Saudi turd by its cleanest end.

Israel

An American:

You call me a "shmuck" but you incorrectly spell my name? Oy Gevalt!!! Good god man, it only has six letters, it's on the news, on maps and even in that black book you probably claim to read every day. Then again, since you and verity seem to get your poitical news from the style pages of the Washington Post l really should not be surprised. And what is it exactly that makes her ugly to you? I'm sure most here know the answer, i'm just waiting to see if you have the courage to post it on this site. Before you post any stuttering, inaine, defensive post back, your the one who used the word ugly without a decent reason. Shmuck.

Ronnie and Cabbie:

If you are really bored and want some political release you can always watch BBC Parliament. Yes, l know the Welsh Assembly isn't the same but they do have three hours of C-Span on Sundays (people at work could not believe it when l tuned in during my lunch break but now most are avid watchers). I even have a friend who downloads episodes of "Real Time with Bill Maher" for me every week. I mean, there's just so many episodes of heroes you can watch!!

An American

When I read comments from the likes of Richard Eis...I'm dumbfounded...some people are so complacent and/or unaware...go ahead Richard...be in denial, its much easier than facing the truth. Human nature hasn't changed. That's why we continue to have so many evil dictators around the world. Big warning signs on Obama are there for all of us to see. Look at Obama's complete lack of experience, his enormous ego that has encouraged all this mega-worship, his past affiliations and friends, his books, his voting records, etc. Obama is a Marxist and is intend on changing our country for the worse...that is, unless you are a Marxist too. If not, you should be concerned.

kiwi

Conservative Cabbie, no need to feel meaningless and sad, are you sure you're a cabbie? You seem more like a bridge builder to me, also a worthy vocation.

Wendy O.

Jimmy Carter proved that Americans are capable of tremendous stupidity. Obama proved that they are world leaders in it.

fellow traveller

"This is one ugly woman. I'm sure our liberal press will continue to, for the next four years, tell us something different than what our eyes tell us"

This is where we've got to. Across the US smart, forward-thinking conservatives are arguing about how to reconnect to their traditional voters, how to revitalise their agenda and create an effective opposition to put their views across.

Meanwhile the commenters on this site - who regularly pat each other on the back on their acumen, insight and willingness to say the unsayable - are engaging in this reconstruction by insulting each other over the best place to put a comment box and sniggering about whether Michelle Obama is pretty enough to be their First Lady.

Keep it up guys, I know you've got valuable work to accomplish here so I will get out of your way.

Conservative Cabbie

An American

Thankyou for your kind words. Easy on Israel, he's ok, even if he doesn't like American Football. His politics I can live with but to call American Football a waste of his time, boy is he sick!

Israel

Re the Republicans future. I wasn't an avid watcher of politics in '92, however I'm sure that the news people probably heralded the death of republicanism then too just as in '97, the Tory epitath was written. These things are cyclical, the youth may be Democrats now, but they grow up, they have wages they don't want to be taxed to the hilt, they have children and worry about national security etc, the Democrat youth is the nursery for Republican voters in the long run. Also, I don't know if you are aware, but those christainists you refer to, multiply like crazy - probably all that abstinence - there's a whole new breed of future GOP voters being bred right now.

As for 2012, there was another poll which had Palin miles ahead of Romney and Huckabee in terms of approval rating amongst Republicans (80%-ish, can't be bothered to look it up). I think Huckabee is done, Romney is possible though I hope not. Jindal is very interesting, although unlike democrats, Republicans don't nominate someone because of race, it will be his success in fighting Democrat corruption in Louisiana that gets him the nod. I was also intrigued by Cantor, a new name for me although I see him as a potential VP, the GOP are not going to nominate a legislator again, especially one from the House. It's likely to be a Palin/Jindal/Romney battle in the primary, I can't read it beyond that. Having said that, as your favourite, Bill Kristol, pointed out, four years ago, Obama was still in the state senate, so the next nominee could come from anywhere.

Other names to look out for: Haley Barbour - governor of Mississippi and Mark Sanford - Governor of South Carolina. Also please check out Michele Bachmann on wikipedia - if you thought Palin was bad...that's all I'm saying.

Ronnie

Cabbie, maybe we need counselling, in spite of Israel's very helpful suggestions.

At least we can still have a laugh now and then and we both have jobs, so that's at least something...

Maybe there's a support group?

Conservative Cabbie

Kiwi

Thanks for your comments about being a "bridge-builder".

I'm actually campaigning to be the British Obama - demonstrating my post-partisanship and all that. I have the associations down pat; I was once taught by a marxist (boy did she not like me) and I once drove someone to the Airport who was flying to Iran of all places (that's got to be dodgy).

Trouble is, I've now got to delete any posts I've made on here which demonstrate what my views are (don't want those in the public arena) and on Verity's request to have the comment box at the bottom, I'm afraid I've now got to vote "present" because Democrats don't like people who make decisions, just idealogues who speak well.

Oh botherations, there goes the post-partisanship.

BTW people, I'm sorry for the number of comments, I am officially a Spectator addict. "My name is Cabbie and I'm a Melanieaholic".

Ronnie

An American, you seem to think like a cartoon character.

Do you have any understanding of the range of views, opinions, motivations and beliefs that inhabit that huge void between actual Marxism and your land of simple pleasures?

I'm afraid the world is rather more complicated than you seem to suppose. It is not the case that we are all either like you or Marxists, no matter how certain you may be.

If everyone thought like you then everyone would be afraid of everyone else. This fear would consume every minute of our day and sleep would be impossible. Our cinema's would show nothing but endless re-runs of 'The Day the Earth Stood Still'.

Furthermore, if everyone was a Marxist then, according to Jill (who wishes that I had been christened Thomas), the vast majority of people would be on holiday because Marxists have so much leisure time.

Steeevyo

I could spend hours reading all the bitterness and doomsday prophecies, all the whining and howling.
It gives me great joy and pleasure. Bring it on! I need more!

P.S.: I also enjoyed the whining and howling of liberals in 2000 and 2004. Its all about Schadenfreude for people who cannot lose with grace and dignity.

Ronnie

Thanks Augustus, at least you were brief.

what's up?

What is happening here? Plenty of to-ing and fro-ing, but very little that is really critical of Melanie's article itself in the last few days.

I've posted various things that have been critical, some several times and emailed Pete Hoskin about their non appearance. Nothing.

It rather begins to look therefore as if she is being protected from criticism.

Meanwhile, it's over 5 days since her last post.

When are critical comments going to appear?

Pete Hoskin

what's up: an e-mail you sent ended up in my junk folder, and I've only just noticed it. You should now have a reply.

Dixon

Ronnie
November 10th, 2008 9:04am
"Dixon, I don't want to butt-in here but I do know that Hayward certainly doesn't rely only on the internet for his information. I'm sure he'll come back with full chapter and verse on his day job. However, that doesn't mean that what he sasy is indisputable. For example, in your case, it wasn't just US citizens who were killed at Lockerbie.

As for mentioning the 'Achille Lauro' as some kind of test, that's just a little patronising I think."

Is it? I don’t want to be patronising. But when someone says that “extensive researches” revealed the total US death toll from terrorist attacks between 1979 and 1993 to be “80-90” when 250 died in one bomb attack alone in that period does rather “ask for it” doesn’t it?

My other comments were not rea\ly aimed at any individual here. So sorry if it seemed patronising. But that’s nothing compared to the patronising, condescending, demonising rhetoric we see from 2lefties” here and elsewhere, all the time. Usually fuelled by half understood pseudo-knowledge from the internet, such as my point addressed.

Verity

Although Melanie is an international journalist, an author and a broadcaster and highly engaged in projects other than this blog, I really feel the least she could do is vote "Present".

Thanks, Conservative Cabbie, for an entertaining post as always.

Verity

As it happens, I also think Michelle Obama is awful looking.

I speak as someone who thinks that of all the female pop stars of the era, Diana Ross was the most beautiful. I also think that Aayan Hirsi Ali is simply ravishing.

Michelle Obama's a real bow-wow.

Isabella

So Barack Obama is not of the far Left?

Yet of all the mentors in all the world Barack Obama chooses communist Frank Marshall Davis as his.

And of all the churches in all the world, he chooses the anti-white Trinity United Church of Christ as his.

What are we supposed to believe he gleaned out of these people?

Crochet lessons?

You couldn’t make it up.

The mainstream media in the UK played the video tape of John McCain making his fundamentals of the economy soundbite so much, many here are still unaware of the ‘tax’ promises made by Obama.

We have to put tax in inverted commas, of course, because it’s not tax, it’s welfare (there is nothing straight about this politician):

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2587756/will-the-tories-avoid-making-mccains-tax-error.thtml

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/11/10/do1001.xml

this was crucial in the stampede towards the economy as the main election issue.

One other trick the British media got up to was to sidestep Obama’s Muslim past by addressing that story this way. They would never stop saying “10% of Americans believe he is a Muslim”.

But that was never what concerned serious commentators. All they have ever pointed out is that his father was a Muslim, that under Islam the father passes on the religion, that the name Hussein is only give to Muslims and that there are plenty of accounts from teachers and other witnesses that the young Obama was a Muslim.

But the British mainstream media ignored all that and instead played the red herring that people think “he is a Muslim”. But of the fact that he was a Muslim, past tense? Silence.

That was until after he was elected and suddenly we’re seeing lots of stories about the fact that Obama had a Muslim father.

So newsrooms and editors up and down the land were apprised of these facts and yet decided to sit on them until after the election.

Why?

And why do they think we can’t spot what they’re up to?

Robin Levett

@AspenUSMC:

"Obama has relationships TODAY with Ayers..."

As indeed McCain and Palin have an ongoing relationship with those who funded the "terrorist front organisation" (or was it perhaps an educational charity set up by a Republican?) on which Obama served with Ayers.

As Palin has links with anti-American (and potentially violent) secessionists; you may recall that the First Dude is a member of the AIP (Alaskan Independence Party). Palin has addressed the AIP on more than one occasion, and had their endorsement when running for Governor.

The difference is of course that Ayers ain't a terrorist any more (he's a respected academic and hasn't blown anyone up for simply ages), but the AIP is still secessionist.

More generally - to all you USAans commenting on this story. We've heard a lot over the last 7 years from the US wingnuts about how it's treason to criticise the President ("whoever he is") in time of war. When did they change the rules?

Vivien

Verity writes: "Dave 8:34, who whimpers that Palin did not know that Africa is a continent - trust me, if ignorance of geography is a yardstick, do you believe Tony Blair would ever have made it into No 10? He knows where Africa and the Middle East are now, but had you asked him to point out Africa, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Brazil on an UNMARKED atlas before he warmed his seat on the gravy train, you would have had an equal fit of the giggles." Could Verity give her source for this fact about Blair's past ignoranceof geography?

derek

I walked past a guy today that was singing Christmas carols and was wearing a sandwich board sign that was talking about the Last Day of Salvation being on May 21 2011. And it reminded me of the people in this comments section. keep up the hysterics.

the irony of the radical-minded thinking Obama is too radical.

Robert

What's really scary is that this Marxist Muslim terrorist now controls the largest nuclear arsenal in the world. Forget Iran - we've gotta get the US to disarm now!!!

Israel

Ah, the old "Diana Ross is beautiful" defence. Right up there with the "Sidney Poitier is intelligent when on the sceen" and "Colin Powell is very well spoken" (now no longer used since he opted to vote for Obama) defences. I am surprised that the commentator in question bothered to read the post in question considering her usual contempt for posters who are not interesting in stroking her already massive ego.

Verity

Isabella writes: "What are we supposed to believe he gleaned out of these people?

"Crochet lessons?"

Well, actually, Isabella, you may have made an inadvertent point. Perhaps it was Obama who crocheted that couch throw that Michelle wore to their victory party.

sauce and sources

You can tell a lot about Melanie from her sources: the ones she chooses and the way she uses them.

Here she goes for Frank Gaffney. She writes:

“As Frank Gaffney wrote in the Washington Times yesterday, Bush’s Treasury is about to open the way for sharia law to be imposed upon America’s banking system”

Barry Unlikely above (Nov 8, 2008 11.00am) seems to have some interesting background on Gaffney. If what he says is true, Gaffney used to be a member of a group that advocated a nuclear attack on Russia and suggested more recently that Al Jazeera journalists were fair game and should be killed.

But to Gaffney's article and how Melanie uses it....

Gaffney is another trader in fear and hatred, and he's not above an outright lie if it will help him stir up a little more. He says, for example, that '”Islamic Banking” is a euphemism for a practice better known as “Shariah-Compliant Finance (SFC)”'

Now this is just not true. It's not “better known”. In fact both “Islamic Banking” and “Islamic Finance” out Google hit “Sharia(h) Compliant Finance” many times over.

In order to give his claim apparent credibility he then even appends an acronym “SFC”, as if it were some term of art. But he appears to have made this up and at the same time to have got it wrong – surely “Sharia Compliant Finance” would have to be “SCF”, not “SFC” as Gaffney would have it.

It is difficult to know whether this is more stupid or dishonest. But it is certainly pathetic.

Gaffney's preference for the more obscure "Sharia-Compliant Finance" is not hard to fathom however. It allows him to reference "sharia", and so to tweak his readers' hatred. Sure enough right on cue, the comments on his article go right to beheadings. This is knowing and thoroughly disreputable.

However, as I read Gaffney, even he doesn't go so far as to say “Bush’s Treasury is about to open(s) the way for sharia law to be imposed upon the America's banking system”. Which is Melanie's claim.

This after all would be a pretty big ask of anyone, since the only fact (and we have no reason to doubt it) on which the article is based is that the US Treasury is holding a half day seminar on Islamic Finance.

Melanie however has no inhibitions. She chooses a dodgy article which spins a hateful fantasy based on a lie, and then take it one stage further.

This I'm afraid is typical of her.

Barackobama

Isabella,
Barack Obama's father was a
Muslim and this is good enough for many Muslims to regard him as a Muslim too. But Obama said he is a Christian. This amounts to apostasy and, in some Muslim eyes, grounds for death. So if Obama was a Muslim and now says he is a Christian, he is defying the very Salafist death squads that some people believe support him.
Can you be a Christian without being baptised at all, as Obama apparently isn't? Most Christians say no. So Obama is really a fake-Christian Muslim apostate. Yikes!
But can you be a Christian without being baptised properly? Most Christian denominations say no. So most Christians say many other Christians aren't really Christians.
It continues getting complicated. Can you be baptised properly more than once? The Catholic view is that you can't resign from the church, no matter how many times you get wet. So in the eyes of the Pope, Palin's really a lapsed Catholic.
I could go on, but it would be silly.

Verity

Vivien - No, sweetie. Just going on form. A clue is, he had never heard of the Balfour Declaration. I don't think he was much of a swot at school. His headmaster said he was an attention-seeking pest, and he seemed to devote most of his time to dressing up and being in school plays.

Then when he went to uni he was dressing up and trying to be Mick Jagger, if memory serves. The Ugly Rumours, was it? Or perhaps that was what their landlady called them: the ugly roomers.

I don't think Blair is over-endowed with intelligence, except the sharp wit of the opportunist. Like Obama, who I also think is not overly bright. He can't think on his feet, that's for sure.

Conservative Cabbie

Verity

"Ugly Roomers" - that tickled my fancy, very funny. Thankyou.

Two more names for potential runners in 2012 for you. I posted them earlier to Israel but you may have missed them amongst these 500 or so posts.

Haley Barbour - Governor of Mississippi. Older but might not be a bad thing if Obama is unsuccessful, the people might be less impressed with youth. Was RNC chairman when the Republicans took over congress in the nineties. Well respected within the party.

Mark Sanford - Governor of South Carolina - You've got to love someone who drives pigs into the statehouse as a protest against state congressional 'pork'.

I'm not commenting on how good they are, just seen them mentioned as potential candidates.

what's up?

"The hyperbole for once is not exaggerated..."

Melanie, I for one have always considered your hyperbole exaggerated. And I always will.

Methinks it has something to do with it being hyperbole.

sauces and sources

Pete Hoskin - I am puzzled by your explanation - viz that you hadn't noticed a judicious "If what he says is true..." But that now you have you are happy to let it go up.

Why puzzled? Because you had already posted the allegations that followed, and I was only reporting them.

I see however that they have now appeared - thank you. Perhaps I'll even try my luck with a couple of others which didn't appear

Isabella

Sauce and sources (November 10th, 2008 3:02pm), your argument is as weak as your puns, the word Islamic is used a smokescreen for the fact that this banking is to do with the Sharia (but the banks don’t want the public to know that).

The word Islamic implies a centuries old tradition, but this is simply not that case. As Daniel Pipes explains here:

‘Islamic economics does not go back to Muhammad but is an "invented tradition" that emerged in the 1940s in India. The notion of an economics discipline "that is distinctly and self-consciously Islamic is very new."

Even the most learned Muslims a century ago would have been dumbfounded by the term "Islamic economics."

The idea was primarily the brainchild of an Islamist intellectual, Abul-Ala Mawdudi (1903-79), for whom Islamic economics served as a mechanism to achieve many goals: to minimize relations with non-Muslims, strengthen the collective sense of Muslim identity, extend Islam into a new area of human activity, and modernize without Westernizing.’

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/4973

This is why this form of finance is so insidious.

It was invented by Islamists with a hostile purpose.

Pete Hoskin

sauces and sources, 4:40pm: I explained the reasons behind that in the e-mail you have already read and replied to. I trust that cleared things up.

Jill

Ronnie writes: "Jill, I think Thomas, if I may speak for him, was pointing out that your hilarious inability to properly identify Marxists crucially weakens your capacity to oppose them effectively.

The parts of Thomas's post that you don't understand were, he tells me, weak attempts at ironic humour. He apologises.

Thomas also tells me, by sat. phone from his yacht, that he would be grateful if you and your conservative friends would stop defending his right to vote as he prefers to do that himself. He is very careful about the associations he makes in case people use them against him in the future."
----------------------------
Ronnie,

You and Thomas talk down to me and do not talk straight. You show snobbery toward all things American. It is elitism that has its roots in early European writings on America; it has been a constant element throughout our history and today is called "anti-Americanism." The seed of this discrimination is "all things--such as fauna, minerals, crops, human beings, virtues, literature, philosophy, religion, and art--in the New World degenerate and are inferior to the Old." This prejudice is older than the United States. The only cure is drastic. You must run a small business in rural USA and trade your "yacht" for a rowboat.

I have wondered why some Europeans went ga-ga over O when he is not the first black to run for President. Alan Keyes runs every time. But, O is the first black who is not from the continent of N. America.
------------------------

Verity,

I wrote you a thank you post for your encouragement to citizens to be politically active. It disappeared, or I just don't see it.

Thank you. :)

sauce and sources

Isabella

Please explain to me by what process the half day seminar becomes: “Bush’s Treasury is about to open the way for sharia law to be imposed upon America’s banking system”.

I would have thought anyone could see a certain mismatch here. The leap from one to the other is only possible because first Gaffney goes off on a flight of fancy and then Melanie spins what Gaffney says even further.

The point is Melanie picks sources who are unreliable and she then misuses them. She does this in pursuit of an agenda which seems some way from peace and love.

Jill

Vivien - No, sweetie. Just going on form. A clue is, he had never heard of the Balfour Declaration. I don't think he was much of a swot at school. His headmaster said he was an attention-seeking pest, and he seemed to devote most of his time to dressing up and being in school plays.

Then when he went to uni he was dressing up and trying to be Mick Jagger, if memory serves. The Ugly Rumours, was it? Or perhaps that was what their landlady called them: the ugly roomers.

I don't think Blair is over-endowed with intelligence, except the sharp wit of the opportunist. Like Obama, who I also think is not overly bright. He can't think on his feet, that's for sure.
------------------------------

Verity,

The conversation with 'Africa' is online and shows the talk against Palin's IQ is a smear, defined as lies. It is useless to go round and round with the opposition because, even when evidence proves them wrong, they keep stating lies as facts. That has always been their MO. Our job is to set the record straight with the base. I think, the opposition is scared of Palin because she energizes the conservatives. The Dems are terrified that she will run in 2012 and are trying to ruin her reputation among non-elite conservatives. I support her and am proud to call her a conservative leader. I'm proud of Alaska, too. Some commentators are saying Republicans should not nominate Palin in 2012. I say as Reagan did, "Let [the opposition] hang us from the highest tree." We don't want to pretend to be something we aren't. We are willing to take consequences and rewards for staying true to ourselves.

derek

Jill says:
"But, O is the first black who is not from the continent of N. America."

Despite the rhetoric of "not from the continent of N. America" and how it doesn't logically equate to "not from the United States", do you seriously think that's why Obama had high international support?

Ronnie

OK Jill, I give up. I honestly don't know if you are pulling my chain or if you are being serious.

If you are pulling my chain then I take my hat off to you because you are brilliant. If you are being serious then you remind me of the character Earl Mott, played by Bill Pullman in the movie 'Ruthless People'.

I promise not to mess with you again.

An American

Isabella,
I'm learning new things everyday since finding Melanie's website and the very bright people who comment here. Your information on Islamic economics was an eye-opener.

Verity, Yet another chuckle... visualizing Obama each evening in his off-time patiently crocheting Michelle's hideous couch cover...umm, I mean, dress for their big premier...US comedians think Obama and Michelle are just too 'cool' to make jokes about...This upcoming 'mind control' regime will even try to control what people deem funny. They'll try to turn it into something racial.
Keep them coming, its's better to laugh than cry right now. You're one smart, funny lady.

phil

Jill and I quote you " have wondered why some Europeans went ga-ga over O when he is not the first black to run for President. Alan Keyes runs every time. But, O is the first black who is not from the continent of N. America"---IS THIS THE WAY YOU REFER TO PEOPLE WITH BLACK SKIN?DO YOU REFER TO YOURSELF AS A WHITE RATHER THAN A BLACK ?

If you wonder why those like Ronnie talk down to you as you put it perhaps it is because not only are your thoughts ridiculous but they are offensive too.If you think we Europeans are snobbish towards Americans or even elitist then that also is a sad reflection on your thought processes,but seeing you are an acolyte of the silly verity I am really not surprised .I hope you are not the bigot that comes over in your posts but if that is the case it is entirely your own fault -They say you cannot pick your relations but your choice of companions is really up to you .

Joe the small-minded bigot

Melanie you have a gift for rational argument and nuanced discussion unmatched in the journalistic world today. I don't care that your article contains not one substantive fact to back up your fear-mongering, I know you're right, whatever those tofu-eating, guardian-reading, bleeding-hearts, liberal elitists may claim!

derek

An American speaks of mind control, but is oblivious to the lunatic fringe controlling their mind.

"Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is
distrust of the people tempered by fear."
- William E. Gladstone (British Statesman)

Verity

Jill - Many thanks. I didn't know that the conversation with Palin was broadcast, but the claims (of the left; who else?) were so absurd that it was obvious they were fabricated.

My plea to the British to copy the Americans in the way the put pressure on their legislators will fall on deaf ears. There is a defeatist attitude abroad in Britain now. People have been thrashed so soundly they don't believe they could be effective (although they could, en masse) and the Blair and Brown governments have turned Britain into a rather sinister police state - neighbours are already being asked to spy by local councils, and report back if they see someone putting out the wrong kind garbage. Or throwing a cigarette butt on the street. They have forbidden children to climb trees by putting out a directive from the Department of Health and Safety. Britain's full of "directives" these days. It's all to do with intimidation, and it has worked. There are more CCTV cameras on the streets and public spaces in Britain than in any other country save N Korea.

I suspect Obama (well, silly me! - I mean the people who run him) have something similar in mind. In any event, it won't work in the United States because the citizenry is too robust. I wish the British would look across the Atlantic and learn. It is astounding how quickly a country can lose its confidence.

Isabella - Thanks for the history of "Islamic banking". I had thought there really must be such a thing and was picturing it as having been developed by traders in the souks. Your post was quite an eye-opener.

Conservative Cabbie - Thanks, I'll look up your new contenders. I am absolutely torn between Palin and Jindal. They would both be strong and effective. I have a feeling Palin may draw in more votes ... although, I don't know. Jindal is funny and he has a beautiful wife and three lovely children. Being an admirer of India, I think my inclination would be to back Jindal. (I'll be the smells wafting out of the kitchen of the Governor's Mansion are wonderful ...) But a it's a genuinely tough choice. I'll look up your two other candidates for VP.

Jeb, Texas

What are you on about, ‘source and sources’?

You call this post “a hateful fantasy based on a lie”. Of course it isn’t fantasy.

A trip was made by Deputy U.S. Treasury Secretary Robert M Kimmitt to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states. What’s fantasy about that? Other news agencies carried the story, too. Here’s just two of them:

Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/etfNews/idUSLS12558220081028

And The Hindu:

http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/03/stories/2008110353561500.htm

Both carry quotes from Kimmitt. This isn’t made up.

There are lots of other news agencies that carried the story about the half-day course on sharia finance. Here’s two of them:

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=38902

http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80003

So where’s the fantasy?

What is the government of the USA doing holding a half-day course on sharia finance and sending Kimmitt out to the Middle East if not seriously trying to let sharia finance establish itself in the US? It is opening the way to have a look at allowing sharia finance to put down roots. Ms Phillips’ language is spot on.

This is how these things begin in government.

If we follow your line of logic, ‘source and sources’, commentators should say nothing until the policy has been effected, whereupon the White House would say: “No, there’s nothing controversial about this. Otherwise people would have objected earlier on when we first started going down this path.”

You can forget that caper for a start.

The government of the USA has no business opening the door to have a look at sharia finance.

That door needs to stay shut, bolted - and preferably padlocked as well.

Daniel Pipes and other commentators have pointed out just how sharia finance works and how it is camouflaging itself with the label “Islamic” - so where‘s the “lie”?

You say: “The point is Melanie picks sources who are unreliable and she then misuses them.”

The source is perfectly reliable - and it is corroborated by plenty of others.

The only person who has used an unreliable source is you.

The sum total of your ‘research’ was not historical evidence or facts, but the number of Google hits you got.

I can’t stop laughing at this: ‘Now this is just not true. It's not “better known”. In fact both “Islamic Banking” and “Islamic Finance” out Google hit “Sharia(h) Compliant Finance” many times over.’

If one of my students handed in a piece of work based on Google hits, they would be failed instantly.

This is as bad as basing an assignment on information found on Wikipedia.

Of course you will get more Google hits on ‘Islamic finance’ because those who are trying to spread this form of finance are doing so disingenuously by hiding it under this label. In Islam, such underhand tactics are known as taqqya. Perhaps that’s something else you don’t understand?

To those who know what they are talking about it is better known as sharia finance, because that is precisely what it is. It was never conceived as Islamic finance.

Melanie “does this in pursuit of an agenda which seems some way from peace and love”.

I have to say, I’m not familiar with all Ms Phillips’s writing, but from what I’ve seen so far all she seems to be doing is prevent the agenda that says: “Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate” from being effected.

All the peace and love seems to be with her.

Hayward Maberley

Dixon,
“I dont think a numbers game is really relevant”
So you concur with Gen. Tommy Franks and the late, unlamented Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld in not doing body counts? Fair enough.
However Jill used body counts/the numbers game as a part of her argument for what a wonderful job The Faux Texan and current encumbrance in the White House has done. I thought that that the 10,000 civilian figure was questionable.
As you did of my figures. But as J M Keynes said;
“There is no harm in being sometimes wrong- especially if one is promptly found out.
No blunder in leaving out the 241 military personnel killed in the Lebanon barracks. In fact it was 180 on the Lockerbie flight, but I only counted the crew members and civilians. There were a number of military personnel including a indeterminate number from military intelligence. That would add somewhere around another 140. No terrorists involved in KAL 007 in 1983. It was brought down inside Soviet airspace by a missile fired from a Mig 23
So prior to the Oklahoma City bombing that takes the figure to c. 230. It still does not move the total to any where near the figure which you claim,”off the top of me ed!” And again nowhere near that 10,000 civilian figure that Jill was prepared to use.
If Jill is concerned about civilian deaths here is a comparison using data from National Center for Health Care Statistics, CDC in 2001.
For between 1970 and 2000 average annual firearm mortality in the USA was 32,703.
“Discussing this with my brother, a mathematician, back in 1980 ( yes, many years before most people outside of science fiction circles had even imagined an internet ) he pointed out to my youthful chagrin that its not possible to look up data on a topic if you dont know that topic exists “
A good point, one made to students who use the academic library in which I work. They all think it is on Google, and if it is not on Google it does not exist. No need to go to any kind of primary source, a monograph or a bound serial!
Finally,
“I'll illustrate that by saying "Achille Lauro". Ever heard of it Hayward?”
Well yes for I was alive, then in my thirties, in 1985. I did count that incident as well as the attacks on airports in Rome and Vienna in that year.
As an aside I like John Adam’s music and have The Death of Klinghoffer in my music collection.
As J M Keynes also said, “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”

Dixon

Howard Maberley. good answer, if she specified "civilian" deaths. I thought she only said "citizens". I cannot trudge back up the thread to find out. However, 180 dead on the lockerbie flight is still more than twice your "80-90" figure. Moreover, I specifically counted the KAL 007 downing as a "terrorist" act, by a "terrorist" state ( the USSR ), given that, when it comes down to it, a "terrorist" is only a "terrorist" if they are an enemy and all enemies are "terrorists".

On the broader topic, you seem to understand my view about the "pseudo-knowledge" of the internet.

BTW, I play the "foxtrot" from "The Chairman Dances" frequently!
However, it is rather ironic that I had already posted a comment earlier in which I specifically declared that I had changed my opinion on a few things over the course of this thread. But, for some reason, that comment, around 6.30 pm, never appeared!

Dixon

..I mean "The Chairman Dances" from "Nixon in China".

Jill

Phil writes, "Jill and I quote you " have wondered why some Europeans went ga-ga over O when he is not the first black to run for President. Alan Keyes runs every time. But, O is the first black who is not from the continent of N. America"---IS THIS THE WAY YOU REFER TO PEOPLE WITH BLACK SKIN?DO YOU REFER TO YOURSELF AS A WHITE RATHER THAN A BLACK ?"
-------------------------------
White Girl Jill writes: You seem to have had some media narrative explode in your brain.

Why, yes, I refer to myself as "white" if somebody asks me because "caucasian" sounds so pretentious. Don't you think?
I don't use the official government terms found on school, work, and government forms for cultures. I gave that up after the fifteenth time of typing "African-American" in a school paper and because some blacks are offended at the hyphen. They say they are not Africans and not hyphenated Americans, they are fully Americans. They make sense, and I agree with them.

FYI, "race" is a social construct, and chances are many US whites have black ancestors from Africa.
---------------------------
Phil writes: "If you wonder why those like Ronnie talk down to you as you put it perhaps it is because not only are your thoughts ridiculous but they are offensive too.If you think we Europeans are snobbish towards Americans or even elitist then that also is a sad reflection on your thought processes,but seeing you are an acolyte of the silly verity I am really not surprised .I hope you are not the bigot that comes over in your posts but if that is the case it is entirely your own fault -They say you cannot pick your relations but your choice of companions is really up to you ."
---------------------------

Jill writes: actually you come off as a bigot and ignorant at how comfortable Americans are about "race." We use the terms "white" and "black" with each other all the time--in public, in classrooms, in editorials. How else are we going to talk if we are talking about blacks or whites? "African American," "Caucasian," etc., sounds like you are ruled by pc until your better instincts can develop. You should use the hyphens for formal occasions, though. I won't explain to you with personal information why you are wrong, but just know that for me this election wasn't about "race" at all. The election was about the US Constitution and capitalism. I chose the US Constitution and capitalism. All the talk about "race" in the news misses the entire point.

Jill

Derek writes: Jill says:
"But, O is the first black who is not from the continent of N. America."

Despite the rhetoric of "not from the continent of N. America" and how it doesn't logically equate to "not from the United States", do you seriously think that's why Obama had high international support?
------------------------------

Jill writes: Yes, I do. It is a spiritual connection and meeting of the minds that he does not have with me. An example is his team's use of "rule" instead of "serve" when describing the nature of future administration's actions. Probably to Europeans that like O that is no big deal. To me, he is as foreign as the Mongols were to China. "Rule" is what tyrants do. Reagan and Palin would never say that because they don't think that way, and they know how it would be received. They know us. Obama doesn't.

I have a list of other examples from the campaign.

Hayward Maberley

Dixon,
Thank your polite reply. It is almost 11:00 EDST on 11 November in Australia.....
A pause for all those who suffered and died in that War to End All Wars. My family was lucky in the sense that both my grandfathers survived. Other relatives did not, some would say the lucky ones died.
One a guardsman in the Welsh Guards, he was very tall. The other an NCO, as he was Regular Army in a cavalry regiment, Lancers of some sort. He was gassed early on, recovered and while recuperating was sent to Dublin Castle on light duties. Just in time for the Easter Uprising! He met my grandmother there. Unfortunately her family took a dim view of marriage to an English soldier. But all is forgiven now. Any way that's enough Remembrance for now.
"Moreover, I specifically counted the KAL 007 downing as a "terrorist" act, by a "terrorist" state ( the USSR ), given that, when it comes down to it, a "terrorist" is only a "terrorist" if they are an enemy and all enemies are "terrorists".
You cannot be serious Dixon!
What about President Reagan’s “brave freedom fighters”“ the “Contras” , who were in fact a nasty bunch of narco crooks. The US was found guilty of supporting this terrorism by the ICJ. A finding based on clear evidence showing support given to “Contras” financially, materially, militarily and morally. It included the mining of harbours and the destruction of infrastructure as well as indiscriminate slaughter of civilians. The case was Nicaragua v the United States of America. The man who vetted, none to well if you consider the result, Sarah Palin is an Iran-Contra veteran Arthur B. Culvahouse,
Btw do not forget the next group of Ronald's "freedom fighters' from Afghanistan, the Taliban who even graced the White House, morphed into the terr'ists about which The Faux Texan and current encumbrance in the White House froths at the mouth.
You should read Chalmers Johnson's book “Blowback "and the others that he has written.

Mark

Wow. Most of these comments just confirm what she has written. Democracy ceases to function when those voting do not even understand basic principles.

sauce and sources

Jeb, Texas

I find your response absurd.

Melanie wrote about “sharia law” being “imposed”.

“Imposed” first. What does this mean? That perhaps structuring deals or financial products in a sharia compliant way may become one option? Or that it will be the only option?

It seems to me “imposed” must mean it is the only option and that “conventional” ways of structuring products will in effect be banned.

But neither Melanie nor Gaffney (nor indeed anyone else) has even begun to produce any evidence that this is going to happen. And frankly the idea that, for example, conventional mortgages might be on the verge of being prescribed is just a silly fantasy. Melanie's fantasy. (Although it's difficult to conceive that even she can set much store by it.)

Now to “sharia”. This operates as a kind of dog-whistle. There's a subtext, and the subtext revolves around beheadings and the chopping off of hands. Neither have anything to do with Islamic finance, but people are meant to hear it and they do. It's done with a purpose and the purpose has to do with fueling prejudice and hatred. It's why Gaffney prefers “Sharia-Compliant Finance” - a phrase I had barely heard - to the much more common “Islamic Finance”. And why he'll lie that the phrase “Sharia Compliant Finance” is “better known”.

What is missing from all this however is any account of what might be wrong with Islamic finance. My neighbour wants to buy a house and needs a mortgage. Instead of a conventional one, he goes for an “Islamic” mortgage. It's essentially a clever device to get around the ban on usury while achieving much the same effect.

So where's the harm?

And why am I supposed to hate him and his bank because of it?

Jill

You may be interested in this article:

[...]

According to the Obama-Biden “diplomacy policy” presented in their Official U.S. Presidential Transition plan, “Obama supports tough, direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions. Now is the time to pressure Iran directly to change their troubling behavior. Obama and Biden will offer the Iranian regime a choice. If Iran abandons its nuclear program and support for terrorism, we will offer incentives like membership in the World Trade Organization, economic investments, and a move toward normal diplomatic relations. If Iran continues its troubling behavior, we will step up our economic pressure and political isolation.”

Sound familiar? It should because the in-person choices the incoming Obama-Biden administration are offering Iran are the Bush policies, along with Britain, France, China, Russia and Germany’s called the dual-track strategy, which includes tightening sanctions on Iran’s regime while offering incentives if Iran suspends its enrichment activities. It’s a failed policy borrowed from the UN Security Council, that despite three resolutions imposing sanctions against Iran, coupled with an international campaign to put financial pressure on Iran, has so far not stopped or deterred Tehran from developing its nuclear program.

The only difference with the Obama-Biden plan is that Bush did not sit face-to face with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and be used as a propaganda tool to offer him the same ineffective choices that President-elect Obama plans to offer him in the future.

[...]

you can read the rest of it at canadafreepress/index.php/article/6182
----------------------------
maybe O can invite Jimmy Carter instead of Biden to come along. O's following the Bush policy on Iran...We'll put this in the "No Change" column with an asterik.

Jill

For you demographically challenged:

California voters approved Proposition 8, 52% to 48%, even as they were giving President-elect Obama an overwhelming 61% of the vote. But exit polls showed a striking divergence in voting patterns between racial and ethnic groups:

White Californians backed Obama, 52% to 46%. But they voted against Proposition 8, 49% to 51%.
Blacks supported Obama by 94% to 5%. They supported Proposition 8, 70% to 30%. That is what prompted the Gay KK to come out in the streets of Los Angeles.
Hispanics and Asians alike were more pro-Obama than whites, giving him 74% and 64% respectively. Meanwhile 53% of Hispanics voted for Proposition 8, while Asians' vote was the same as whites, with 51% opposed.
Overall, however, Obama voters were against Proposition 8, 32% to 68%.
A similar, although less pronounced, pattern also was seen in another ballot measure, Proposition 4, which would have prohibited performing an abortion on an unemancipated minor unless her legal guardian or, in some cases, another adult family member was notified. Proposition 4 was voted down, 48% to 52%, but again there was an ethnic and racial divergence:

Whites opposed Proposition 4, 45% to 55%.
Blacks narrowly supported it, 51% to 49%.
Hispanics and Asians supported it by wider margins, with 53% and 57%, respectively, casting "yes" votes.
Overall, Obama voters opposed Proposition 4, 32% to 68%.
Obama was the "socially liberal" candidate--opposed to Proposition 8, although in the abstract also against same-sex marriage, and extremely pro-abortion. McCain supported Proposition 8, albeit diffidently, and opposes abortion.

Donald Sargeant

Glad that you recognize that Obama ran a well disciplined campaign, which augurs well for an orderly administration.
It seems to be that he embodies the dream of Abraham Lincoln that America will be governed by the people for the people.

sauce and sources

Jeb, Texas

Typo in my previous post: "prescribed" should of course have read "proscribed". Sorry.

Just a couple of further thoughts on my neighbour. Gaddney and Melanie would seem to have you believe we'd have stonings in the street and the the sky would fall if he got that mortgage. Maintain this if you will, but I think it is absurd.

You apparently want to prevent him getting one: you say that “That door needs to stay bolted – and preferably padlocked as well”.

It seems to me this would be an unwarranted infringement of his liberty and of the freedom of banks to provide that mortgage. And since capitalism revolves around people being able to make their own deals in the way they choose, bad capitalism too

Conservative Cabbie

Verity

I too am coming down on the side of Jindal mainly because I think Palin is just too toxic in other peoples eyes. However Jindal has got to do some work on name recognition within the party. In a recent survey in which some 70% of Republicans wanted Palin to lead the party in 2012, less than 10% thought the same of Jindal.

I'd like to hear Jindal give a speech, Palin is a master at that and whilst it's not necessary to match her, I think the next nominee will have to excite the base if they are to have any chance of winning.

The other thing it will come down to is money, neither is independently wealthy so they will be relying on fundraising. Both score equally well with evangelicals, NRA and the anti-abortion lobby and will probably be going after the same dollars. This is where Palin will have the advantage I believe, she already has the name recognition. Similarly, on both guns and abortion, she seems to be a better poster girl than Jindal in that she is famous now for hunting moose and didn't abort little Trig. She is the perfect advert for both those lobbies. However, because of her toxicity and Jindal's intellectual advantages, I suspect the party insiders will get behind Jindal.

I too would quite fancy a banquet in a Jindal Whitehouse. As he's from Louisiana, how about a Gumbo korma.

Conservative Cabbie

Verity

I watched Palin's interview with Greta Van Susteren on Fox in the small hours. In it, she pretty much confirmed that she would go for it in 2012 saying "if there is an open door, I'll go through it".

Contrast with Obama saying that he wouldn't run for President in '08 and his wife saying that '08 was too early for a Presidential run.

It's doggone refreshing to have a politician who speaks the truth though also I find. (Just getting my Palin speak ready for 2012).

Hayward Maberley

Jill,
While you are on all those number facts how about
1. Coming up with the other 7,000 or so US civilians that you claim were killed by terr'ist action between 1979 and 2001
Dixon made a valiant attempt to enumerate them. He pulled me into line on the Lockerbie incident. And he would like to claim KAL 007, even so nowhere near 10,000.
2. Addressing the numbers concerning Greenspan & easy money, The Special Five , "securitisation" all leading to the largest budget deficit ever AND a huge increase in the National Debt. All of which happened under a GOP Congress AND a GOP President.
But I see from one of your posts that you are a Theocon viz. "Jesus rules and reigns forever."
So can we ask Him concerning the mess that the GOP made as Biblically speaking Eccl 1:1, much bread, that of the citizens of the USA and quite a few other countries, like poor Iceland, has been cast upon the the waters and even after many, many days it cannot be found.

Jill, do you know where it has gone?

electric apple

Cathy of Arizona wrote

>>>And unfortunately, our country is now filled with drug controlled, lazy people who want to be taken care of and bailed out of problems. They don't want to work but the rest of us work hard. It's the people who are unwilling to change themselves that wanted the change - but at what price? <<&l

we have a similar problem in Britain-benefit dependents and criminals have the same number of votes as law abiding members of the striving classes. redistributive policies appeal to those who don't work, and who can vote for me to be robbed to buy their vote.

The 2 really interesting things aoutthis election was how much money Obama had to spend, and how many people who don't usually vote turned up and voted for a man who promised to give them more of other people's money.

There should be no representation without taxation-one taxpayer, one vote. Its the only way.

Hayward Maberley

Palindrones,
All this talk of Governor Palin, moose and a possible run for the Presidency in 2012 together with the auto industry problems brings to mind the famous Moose Test or Älgtest as it is called in Sweden. (Notice. Verity, correct use of the diacritic.)
This was the test that the then new A Class Mercedes failed , by rolling over, when trying to change direction.
The Republicans should take care and fit some Electronic Stability Control to the GOPwagen. It has already suffered from steering and power problems.

Jackie

Source and Sources, the only person who looks absurd is you.

You started out your pathetic pieces by saying that Frank Gaffney’s piece was unreliable when it patently isn’t. Now you say:

‘Melanie wrote about “sharia law” being “imposed”.’

‘”imposed” first. What does this mean?’

It means that this form finance would operate within the framework of the sharia. Why should this framework of law be imposed upon America’s banking system?

‘It seems to me “imposed” must mean it is the only option and that “conventional” ways of structuring products will in effect be banned.’

No one has said this at all. This is up there with your pathetic piece of number-of-pages-on-Google research. This is just you pulling conclusions out of thin air (again).

‘But neither Melanie nor Gaffney (nor indeed anyone else) has even begun to produce any evidence that this is going to happen.’

They’ve never made this argument so why would they?

‘And frankly the idea that, for example, conventional mortgages might be on the verge of being prescribed is just a silly fantasy. Melanie's fantasy. (Although it's difficult to conceive that even she can set much store by it.)’

Now you’re back to your fantasies, Source and Sources. These are your fantasies, not anybody else’s.

‘Now to “sharia”. This operates as a kind of dog-whistle. There's a subtext, and the subtext revolves around beheadings and the chopping off of hands. Neither have anything to do with Islamic finance, but people are meant to hear it and they do. It's done with a purpose and the purpose has to do with fueling prejudice and hatred. It's why Gaffney prefers “Sharia-Compliant Finance” - a phrase I had barely heard - to the much more common “Islamic Finance”. And why he'll lie that the phrase “Sharia Compliant Finance” is “better known”.’

There is nothing of the dog whistle about the phrase ‘sharia finance’ at all. The sharia is the body of law around which this form of finance is based. If it didn’t exist even at the time Muhammad was around how can it be properly said to be Islamic? The banks simply use the phrase ‘Islamic finance’ to conceal this fact from the public.

This is what is known as the thin end of the sharia wedge. Once one part of this body of law is established, a few years later there will be calls for other parts of it to be enacted too.

‘What is missing from all this however is any account of what might be wrong with Islamic finance. My neighbour wants to buy a house and needs a mortgage. Instead of a conventional one, he goes for an “Islamic” mortgage. It's essentially a clever device to get around the ban on usury while achieving much the same effect. So where's the harm? And why am I supposed to hate him and his bank because of it?’

Who has asked you to hate your neighbour or your bank? No-one. As seems to be consistent with you, it’s just another self-righteous hissy fit with not a fact in sight to back it up.

There are many reasons why sharia finance should not be allowed to get a foothold in the West and for someone who seems to enjoy Googling, I’m astonished you haven’t found out more about sharia finance that way.

Perhaps the most pressing reason of all is that once an investment becomes subject to sharia, at least 2.5 per cent of the proceeds are donated to zakat, or charity. On the surface that sounds all well and good. However, most of the world’s Islamic charities are unregulated or are of unknown repute and unfortunately that means some the money for zakat can end up in the hands of Islamist terrorists. This is what happened with Bank Al-Taqwa and Akida Bank.

You can read about their story and more about the dangers of sharia finance here:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=9876d480-1e6c-46ec-aa3c-851a46fbf9ff

http://www.shariahfinancewatch.org/blog/

kiwi

sauce and sources, re your comments on Sharia finance, does not the phrase, "thin end of the wedge", strike any kind of a chord with you? Just curious.

phil

Jill did you also hear the Martians were coming to get us and in particular take you and verity away for analysis returning you of course to enhance our pleasure from you interesting writings ,frank p was going to play the knight, for verity,s honour and strap himself to a rocket sent to destroy mars coming back of course in a blaze of glory enabling his elevation to our next prime minister and future president of the USA-
I believe it as I believe all your conspiracy theories ! For goodness sake lady get a life and leave Sen Obama to sort this world out as best he can because for sure you and your pals cant .It surely must be apparent to you that most of the world is delighted with the result of the election ,and only on this set of threads do you see the hate filled mails -Before your bile rises ,I am not a lefty ,far from it just a pragmatic realist with a little compassion for my fellow men

Isabella

Here we go again with ‘source and sources’: ‘It seems to me this would be an unwarranted infringement of his liberty and of the freedom of banks to provide that mortgage.’

There is nothing to stop this person getting a mortgage. They are not going to be locked up. So where’s the threat to their liberty?

What about the liberty to be alive? When money from sharia finance has been ending up in the hands of terrorists, that is clearly the real threat to liberty – our liberty to go about our daily lives in peace.

“And since capitalism revolves around people being able to make their own deals in the way they choose, bad capitalism too.”

Nothing could be further from the truth, which is why sharia finance advocates are beside themselves with joy at the chance to destabilize Western capitalism:

Here we can see Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, a leading advocate of sharia-complaint finance, addressing a meeting in Qatar suggesting the very opposite of what you have just said: that Muslims should take the opportunity provided by the crisis to replace capitalism with an Islamic financial system:

‘“The collapse of the capitalist system based on usury and paper and not on goods traded on the market is proof that it is in crisis and shows that Islamic economic philosophy is holding up,” said the Egyptian-born, Qatar-based cleric.

‘“The Western system has collapsed and we have a complete economic philosophy as well as spiritual strength,” he said at Sunday’s opening of a conference on Jerusalem.

‘“All riches are ours… the Islamic nation has all or nearly all the oil and we have an economic philosophy that no one else has,” Qaradawi said.

‘He urged Muslims to “profit from the crisis to bring about the triumph of the (Islamic) nation, which holds the spiritual and material resources for victory.”’

http://infidelsarecool.com/2008/10/12/muslim-cleric-replace-capitalism-with-islamic-financial-system/

Verity

Kiwi. Too right. Gordon Brown has introduced this abomination into Britain. The British are so accustomed to being abused in favour of Islam that very few journalists even bothered to comment.

Jill, with the greatest respect, no one in Britain has the faintest idea of what Proposition 8 or any other number is, and they don’t care what the people of California vote for. They care about the American election because we will all have to live with the outcome.

Jill

Hayward writes: Jill,
While you are on all those number facts how about
1. Coming up with the other 7,000 or so US civilians that you claim were killed by terr'ist action between 1979 and 2001
Dixon made a valiant attempt to enumerate them. He pulled me into line on the Lockerbie incident. And he would like to claim KAL 007, even so nowhere near 10,000.
2. Addressing the numbers concerning Greenspan & easy money, The Special Five , "securitisation" all leading to the largest budget deficit ever AND a huge increase in the National Debt. All of which happened under a GOP Congress AND a GOP President.
But I see from one of your posts that you are a Theocon viz. "Jesus rules and reigns forever."
So can we ask Him concerning the mess that the GOP made as Biblically speaking Eccl 1:1, much bread, that of the citizens of the USA and quite a few other countries, like poor Iceland, has been cast upon the the waters and even after many, many days it cannot be found.

Jill, do you know where it has gone?
--------------------------
Jill responds: At least you don't pretend Bush ordered the 9/11 attack. One of us would have to join Hannity's website to get the transcript of an interview I heard on the radio in late summer/early fall, if you want a breakdown of the ten-thousand that I talked about. I had to quit my membership when gas prices went up. Nothing I've read at this thread makes me doubt the figure. Over Christmas holiday, I may be able to find it for you via a friend with a membership there. Right now, my plate is too full.

Even so, you will probably continue blaming the Republican Party, no matter what, for failed Socialist policies Republicans have opposed since WWII. Fifty-Five percent of the US budget goes to welfare, which includes Social Security and Health Care. Freddie and Fannie are not even included in that figure. You can google it. The US government publishes the information.

I oppose socialism and anti-capitalism, not Democrats. Most of the Democratic Party constituents that I know in person are exemplary citizens and not leftists. They fall in the social conservative area on a Venn diagram because of their Christian faith, but they do not investigate economic issues. Your attacks on Christians can only backfire in the end. Homosexuals in California are doing a good job appalling Christian Democrats in my state when protestors vandalize and threaten Mormons. The evangelical preacher, Huckabee, won in my state in the primary. However, I voted for Ron Paul. Your sweeping generalizations, as you know, distort truth.

An ounce of objectivity may lead you to google the history of party majorities in Congress. You would see that Republicans only slowed progress toward socialism and were unable, because of their predominantly minority status, to turn us back toward free enterprise. An objective mind would understand the reasons the Republican leaders sought “bi-partisanship” through this big picture. Moderates have led the Republican Party ever since Newt Gingrich left Congress. He is back indirectly. He's been leading conservative constituents under the radar since this summer, helping us navigate through all the moderate hogwash and identify Republicans who act like Democrats. Every moderate Republican in the northeast lost his seat in Congress in the election, and Newt Gingrich seeks the RNC Chairmanship to replace Duncan. Conservatives in the Republican Party echo your complaints. Moderates rightly deserve booting from power. If you look at this election through Republican eyes, you might think that the election was about cleaning up their own party with not a care about loss of power. Nine million Conservatives did not vote for either Obama or McCain in order to teach the Republican Party a lesson. This is typical of Conservatives. They actually believe that goodness always wins the war. People who think this way are the hard-core of Conservatism and categorize Bush I and II as centrist/moderates. McCain ran as a centrist and had the record in Congress to prove it. No genuine Conservative would recommend the "bail-out." A conservative President would have lifted the oil drilling ban on day one of office.

Democrats are going to struggle finding scapegoats and whipping posts for their failed policies, since they control two of three branches, and will soon control all three. At what point do they become accountable for anything???

The derogatory terms, theocon and neocon, lack meaning in the real world. I absolutely love-love your “bread on the waters” question. :) Very good…worthy, profound, and something of substance to meditate on.

I have something for you too: The US Constitution is post partisan.

Jill

Verity writes: Jill, with the greatest respect, no one in Britain has the faintest idea of what Proposition 8 or any other number is, and they don’t care what the people of California vote for. They care about the American election because we will all have to live with the outcome.
--------------------------

Thanks Verity, :) Prop 8 and 4 say something about the election and the next one. That's why I shared it. Anybody interested can google it...but I'll spare you definitions.

Tom Munzer in Wash., DC

"If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" Gen. John Shinseki, 8 Aug. 2001

Conservative Cabbie

Jill

As a British conservative (the value not the party) and thus disenfranchised by the liberal democrat nature of British politics, I'd like to compliment you on your last post. If there are more like you in the conservative ranks in the USA, then I have no doubt that conservatism is safe in your collectively capable hands. Bravo!

Verity

Donald Sargeant writes: “Glad that you recognize that Obama ran a well disciplined campaign.” Obama didn’t run any kind of campaign. Obama couldn’t run a bath. The people who were squeezing this puppet into the White House ran an extremely well-disciplined campaign. This was the big one. The one where the Marxists, after a long march of 40 years, get their hands on the controls.

Obama just thinks he deserves to be president, that’s all.

“It seems to be that he embodies the dream of Abraham Lincoln that America will be governed by the people for the people.” It does? Apart from the fact that America was governed by the people for the people long before Abraham Lincoln came along, “the people” are going to have precious little say in this administration.

Conservative Cabbie – No, Palin is only toxic to the left, who wouldn’t be voting for her anyway. She is well liked and respected among Republicans at large. No Republican cares what Katie Couric thinks or how many tingles Chris Matthews gets up his leg.

Looking at it from today’s perspective, I think Palin would edge the nomination. Jindal is wonderful and if he became president, Wal-Mart might start stocking curries – but I digress. After four years – if he doesn’t get impeached along the way – of Obama, people may have had enough of cosmopolitan candidates. They may want a brass-tacks nominee. Jindal, with his urbanity and charm, might make a wonderful Secretary of State, though. He probably also has that mysterious Indian ability to soak up languages. And he’d be young enough to ride through eight years of Palin and stand in 2020.

Gumbo korma. Have you ever had a gumbo? The Cajuns use a different set of spices. Sorry, but, with respect, gumbo korma is just not on.

Conservative Cabbie

Verity

"Gumbo Korma" - I never said it would be nice!

On Palin's toxicity - You're right, she isn't toxic to Republicans, unfortunately registered Republicans only make up 30% of the electorate. However, as you said, she is toxic to the left. What that means, is that she is a boost to leftist fundraising for starters, Obama had one of his best fundraising days the day after her speech at the convention. Also, the media is largely on the left, their biased hatchet job really hurt her with those people that will swing an election, the Independents. Even now they continue their lies and their smears. Newsweek is currently running a series of articles about the election and they are just flat out lying about Palin. For example, they reported that she refused to go on stage with John Sununu because he was pro-choice. Wrong!. Firstly John Sununu is pro-life and secondly, she did appear on stage with him. She also appeared on stage with Lynn Forester De Rothschild who is pro-choice. These are blatant lies, easily refuted and yet they continue to publish them. We've had Politico.com and The Washington Post admit they were biased in favour of Obama, there is no reason to think that such bias won't continue in 2012 which means that if Palin is the nominee, she will get hammered by them.

Having said all that, she can turn all this to her advantage. As per the convention and the VP debate, expectations of her are and will be low come 2012. If she is able to really get to grips with issues and improve her interview style, she will easily exceed those low expectations making her much more appealing to independent voters.

I agree that Jindal might wait for 2016/2020. There's a dilemma though for both him and Palin. If either, expecting an Obama win in 2012, decide to sit out and wait for 2016, they risk another candidate becoming the de facto leader of the GOP and missing the party altogether.

I've just been watching some Jindal videos on Youtube, very impressed with him when being interviewed, slightly less impressed with his speech making, although I've only seen a couple of short ones.

Conservative Cabbie

Oh no! It seems that Republicans are becoming "intrigued" by the way David Cameron has changed the Conservative Party.

http://tinyurl.com/6hdjyr

I hope they don't go down this route, who's going to be left for a good conservative like me to support?

Ronnie

Cabbie, I have two words for you - Silvio Berlusconi.

Verity

Never mind, Conservative Cabbie. Their infatuation will die a quick death when Cameron loses the next election for the Tories.

I cannot believe the number of open goals this individual has buggered up. The problem with David Cameron as the Tory leader is, he is not a Conservative. He is a metropolitan liberal; a smug champagne socialist. Like the BBC. Like all the 1,300 quangoes, which should be publicly destroyed. Dave would keep them if he got in, which he won't.

A child of six could have forced Gordon Brown out of office by now.

I cannot even stand his smug, empty, self-satisfied face.

Conservative Cabbie

Ronnie

Are you trying to compound my depression? What have I ever done to you?

Verity

Do you think I could claim political asylum in Alaska? It seems like my last hope.

Jill

Conserv Cabbie, :) Thanks for the encouragement. The way to know if "reformers" or "traditionalists" win is to watch who becomes Republican chair and takes leadership of the minority party in Congress. Most leadership has stepped down voluntarily except Boehner. I have written the commission who appoints the leaders in the chairperson in RNC. The other republican members of congress will decide on Boehner and the others. We have to write our congressional representative and tell them "just say no to moderates." Nobody wants moderates. They never did.

Voters winced through this election listening to some of McCain populist rhetoric and reforming "Wall Street." It's comparable to how a usually non-drinking person might feel about pink champaign if they ever got drunk on it at a wedding (so I heard). You won't eeeeeever want to drink that again.

Conservative Cabbie

Jill

Can you tell me about the RNC, what is their role in the Republican party? Is Michael Steele the man for the job? I've seen him on Fox from time to time but don't know a lot about him. Who else do you see adopting a conservative leadership position within the party?

The only thing about McCain is that you (ie the party) did choose him. Maybe that was a result of poor competition or maybe the result of open primaries but McCain seemed to be the best of a pretty bad bunch. If Romney or Huckabee are the leading contenders for nomination in 2012, then the GOP is in a bad way. Is there anyone else interesting aside from Palin and Jindal?

Sorry for all the questions, I've really enjoyed the primaries and the election, now I want to understand things on a more detailed level.

Verity

Conservative Cabbie – Or Louisiana. They’re the only state that’s not really on English Common Law, but quasi- Napoleonic Law, so there may be some exception regarding asylum … But with Jindal in office, I'd say the chances of paying someone off are now nil.

sauce and sources

Isabella, Jeb, Jackie, Kiwi

I can't reply to everything but perhaps I can identify two themes and comment on them?

The first is the desire to establish “Sharia Compliant Finance” as the “correct” usage in preference to “Islamic Finance”.

The arguments for this strike me as odd, sometimes to the point of being contradictory. Isabella, for example, says first that to use word “Islamic” is a “smokescreen” but then goes on to insists it was invented by Islamists. Why one feels compelled to ask can't something invented by Islamists be called Islamic?

But to matters of more substance, Isabella, Jeb and Jackie all seem to think “Islamic” suggests an old tradition whereas “sharia” does not, and on that basis that sharia is to be preferred. Jackie for example asks, “If it didn't exist at the time of Muhammad was around how can it properly be said to be Islamic?”

The answer to that question is “quite easily”, since many things are. Al Q and the Alhambra come to mind as just two diverse examples. Neither was around at the time of Muhammad. But one is an Islamic terrorist grouping and the other an exquisite example of Islamic architecture. And they can both properly be described as Islamic.

In fact it seems to me contrary to your posts it is “sharia” rather than “Islamic” that suggests an old tradition. Something is Islamic if it pertains to Islam. As such it could come from any era. Sharia on the other hand seems to refer back to old texts and traditions.

So what do I conclude?. First that the arguments offered for preferring “sharia” over “Islamic” fall apart, and secondly that if the factors those arguments ask us to weigh were properly brought into account, then the preference would quite likely be for “Islamic” over “sharia”.

The reason “sharia” is preferred however is that it comes with more baggage. And since the task is fueling prejudice, it comes in much more handy.

The second theme is the desire to defend Gaffney and with him Melanie. Jeb thinks he's “perfectly reliable”. Jackie thinks he “patently isn't” unreliable.

But the charges against him are barely addressed if at all., and the enormous gulf between the “facts” he reports and his and Melanie's conclusions is never bridged.

The attempt to establish “sharia” over “Islamic” is part of the defence of Gaffney. For the reasons I have given I don't find those arguments convincing. But even if they were the lie that “Sharia Compliant Finance is “better known” would still remain.

This charge that Gaffney lied seems to me to remain unchallenged. Jeb takes me to task at length over my use of Google (unfairly I would say) but ends up accepting that “Islamic” rather than “sharia” is the better known expression, which of course was my point.

Similarly unchallenged is the charge that Gaffney made up an acronym to bolster his case (and then got it wrong).

I believe these things go to Gaffney's credibility and ought to be a warning sign about what he writes. I have found no arguments to suggest any of these things should be discounted.

A further defence of Gaffney rest on links to various other sites which are held to support what he says.

We know enough of him by now not to expect him to be entirely neutral; what he writes is going to come with a spin, and a dose of scepticism may be needed.

But the real point is that even if everything he says is true, it offers very little support to his message. He re-reports a meeting with, and some warm diplomatic words for, the Saudis. He then reports a half day seminar on Islamic finance, which is probably a rehash of a similar seminar given 6 years ago – see the comments to his article.

And that's about it. Big deal.

However by the time we get to Melanie and her spin on his article sharia law is about to be imposed.

Someone address that gulf please.

Rosie

As an American who is always hearing from the liberal news how much hate the rest of the world has for America, I was so happy to stumble on your blog & to realize there are still sane people in the world.

Verity

Jill – “Nobody wants moderates. They never did.” Brava!

Your sentiment has a grim echo in Britain, where I believe the voters will reject the “moderate” leader of the Conservatives. He installed a little windmill on his roof in London. (Global warming, aka climate change and now morphed into “man made climate change", you know.) He took a parka and a flight to an ice floe in Norway and posed for photos with two sparky looking Huskies. Nothing more. Just a photo of David Cameron in an obviously new parka and these two dogs. But we were advised that this was “a warning” about “climate change”. Frankly, it served as “a warning” about David Cameron for millions. The man’s a Conservative, for God’s sake! If the climate’s changing, that means activity on the surface of the sun has increased.

Anyway, his legislation ideas are so vapid and boneless and so “socially aware” that they cast off the anchor of robust conservatism and capitalism quite some time ago and went adrift. He’s never seen a lefty programme he couldn’t love. And, although you don’t follow our politics, the Prime Minister is such a twerp and such a cowardly jerk that a real Conservative could have gnawed his leg off a couple of years ago. Margaret Thatcher would have engineered his resignation. But David Cameron is still twiddling the dials of his soft socialist programmes and he is going to lose an election that should be an absolute walkover for the Tories. We should have been able to win it in our sleep.

In Britain, as in the US – is this some weird Anglophone curse? – the media are almost entirely if not with Brown, at least against the Conservatives. As is Public Enemy No 1, the BBC.

Like you, I felt uneasy with McCain and although I wanted him to win, it was only because obviously, Obama is the more dangerous and destructive of the two.

Cameron is losing his Conservative base because no one can relate to him.

The Kiwis have just elected a Conservative Prime Minister. Perhaps we should all move south!

Jill

Verity writes: “Jill – “Nobody wants moderates.
They never did.” Brava!

Verity writes: Your sentiment has a grim echo in Britain, where I believe the voters will reject the “moderate” leader of the Conservatives. He installed a little windmill on his roof in London. (Global warming, aka climate change and now morphed into “man made climate change", you know.) He took a parka and a flight to an ice floe in Norway and posed for photos with two sparky looking Huskies. Nothing more. Just a photo of David Cameron in an obviously new parka and these two dogs. But we were advised that this was “a warning” about “climate change”. Frankly, it served as “a warning” about David Cameron for millions. The man’s a Conservative, for God’s sake! If the climate’s changing, that means activity on the surface of the sun has increased.

Jill writes: When is your next election (aka “selection”)? You need a British version of peoplescube.org to get you through the toughest days. Now, Cameron’s warning means voters won’t turn out for the Tory party, and you end up with more draconian environmental laws. I feel your pain.

Verity writes: Anyway, his legislation ideas are so vapid and boneless and so “socially aware” that they cast off the anchor of robust conservatism and capitalism quite some time ago and went adrift. He’s never seen a lefty programme he couldn’t love. And, although you don’t follow our politics, the Prime Minister is such a twerp and such a cowardly jerk that a real Conservative could have gnawed his leg off a couple of years ago. Margaret Thatcher would have engineered his resignation. But David Cameron is still twiddling the dials of his soft socialist programmes and he is going to lose an election that should be an absolute walkover for the Tories. We should have been able to win it in our sleep.

Jill writes: Oh, yes, he’s a twerp. He announced in favor of Obama during Selection 2008. I looooooove Margaret Thatcher. Sounds like a repeat of what happened over here.

Verity writes: In Britain, as in the US – is this some weird Anglophone curse? – the media are almost entirely if not with Brown, at least against the Conservatives. As is Public Enemy No 1, the BBC.

Jill writes: Uh oh. Does the BBC create a panel of voters and interview you throughout the election? Maybe you can be one of the panelists. Do you want to be?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7697786.stm

I wrote it myself. They printed my article almost word for word. I’m a “non-traditional” college student studying writing and publishing so I can write like Melanie.

Verity writes: Like you, I felt uneasy with McCain and although I wanted him to win, it was only because obviously, Obama is the more dangerous and destructive of the two.

Jill writes: amen, that’s why most people voted for McCain.

Verity writes: Cameron is losing his Conservative base because no one can relate to him.

Jill writes: and you are frustrated because nobody will write emails and pressure the party to return to their roots. Amazing how much we have in common. We need a discussion board for duel conservative political action…

Verity writes: The Kiwis have just elected a Conservative Prime Minister. Perhaps we should all move south!

Jill writes: …or I’ll pack my one piece bathing suit, the flowery one with the big skirt.

Hayward Maberley

Jill response: “At least you don't pretend Bush ordered the 9/11 attack.”
Well not George. However when you read the PNAC creed its stressing of the need for a rapid change in the US attitude towards hegemony and the need for something such as a “catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor.” Then you look at what happened and how the PNAC Cabal had managed to hold around 10 senior posts in the first Bush Administration?
I am unlikely to ever sign up on the Hannity website having had a quick peek. Aint free speech wonderful. I was amazed to find that Ollie North whose previous claim to fame was in Iran Contra drug running, weapon smuggling and document shredding seems to have found both the Lord AND Country Music. An interesting gig but then lots of country music is about crime of various sorts, drink, drugs, time in jail and then redemption, either through the Lord or a good women , sometimes both. Btw I have listened to lots of Johnny Cash, Merle Haggard. and Hank Williams. Ironically Ollie owes his salvation to the ACLU who assisted in having his conviction overturned.
But Jill do not despair, for the downturn in the world economy due to the Wall Street Debacle and the ensuing market decline in other countries, has led to demand for oil dropping so much that the price has fallen below US$60 bbl. Every cloud has a silver lining!
You can now renew that Hannity membership. Oil futures are looking at halving sometime next year to somewhere around US$30-40 bbl
“An ounce of objectivity may lead you to google the history of party majorities in Congress. You would see that Republicans only slowed progress toward socialism and were unable, because of their predominantly minority status, to turn us back toward free enterprise.”
Well nothing is free in this world as we are often told by those on the right all around the world. So aid/assistance/bailouts/pork barrelling/tax breaks/nobid & costplus contracts for friends of the White House including Big Oil/ BIg Business/Military/Industrial/Mercenaries/Banking & Finance is not corporate socialism?
This leads me to a digression concerning one of the Founding Fathers of the Republic. Alexander Hamilton and what he said when, after the success of the Revolution, the 13 Colonies became the United States of America. A statement along the lines that as much capital as possible should be in the hands of the few rather than spread among the many .
Hamilton had suggested that the new Republic’s government should reimburse the securities it owed to those who fought in the Revolutionary War at their full price. When speculators heard of this, they bought the securities from the fighters in the Revolution at a fraction of their cost, hoping to make a good profit. There was much opposition to this, many in the newly established Congress wanting a fairer reimbursement for those who had actually done the fighting. But there was some wheeling and dealing carried out on this and other matters which were to have long term consequences for the new Republic. Two of the most important were to do with slave holding and the siting of the capital of the Republic in a swamp on the banks of the Potomac, rather than in Philadelphia. So the many people and their families who fought and died for the Revolution were short changed for the benefit of the rich few. What Alexander Hamilton said in in the 1790s is still very much in the mind of the people who really control the Republic.
Noisome Newt Gingrich, serial adulterer, the man who went to his then wife’s bedside, after her operation for cancer, to discuss the divorce that he wanted to bring about. The wife who had supported him through out his years of study. The man who wanted to pursue Slick Willie to the point of impeachment. These together with his unethical conduct while Senate Speaker makes him absolutely the right choice as the man to be in charge of a GOP version of “The Night of the Long Knives”
Jill, neocon is a common enough term now, derogatory or otherwise. It entered into the political lexicon in the 1960s I believe. It was a neologism then but not now, being used and sometimes misused in common parlance. Have you checked on the definition for it covers much of what has gone on within the White House over the past 8 years.
Theocon maybe a new term to you but lexically speaking it has been in use since somewhere in the late 1990s. You may consider it derogatory but is is succinct and can definitely be applied to the White House of the last 8 years, as they claimed to be a “faith based administration”. Again check the definition.
Worrying when there are so many with a strange chiliastic view of the world.
Concerning your statement that “The US Constitution is post partisan.”
I will have to do some research and have a chat to the professor who teaches "Politics of the USA" where I work.

Hayward Maberley

Verity et al.
I would not consider moving to Aotearoa aka NZ. The last time there was a right of centre government the countries biggest export was its population. Across the Tasman Sea to Australia.
If it were counted as an electorate, though that term is not used Australia would be one of biggest in a NZ Election. The latest figure for resident Kiwis from 2005 shows about 450,000 all up

Jill

Conserv Cabbie writes to Jill: Can you tell me about the RNC, what is their role in the Republican party?

Jill responds: Verity mentioned “vapid” in connection to Cameron. The following is the response of the RNC Chair to the election:

“Earlier this afternoon, I participated in the National Press Club’s Luncheon which featured both DNC Chair Howard Dean and myself. We both gave remarks regarding the outcome of the election and took questions from both press and attending guests.

I spoke on how America has finally realized a vision of a color-blind society that was first inspired the Republican Party into being on the eve of Abraham Lincoln’s 200th birthday. I noted that our vice-presidential nominee – Sarah Palin – received more votes than any woman in American history. In all, with Barack Obama’s promises to cut taxes, merit pay for public school teachers, and renewed offshore drilling, I would say he simply ran the most successful moderate Republican presidential campaign since Dwight Eisenhower.” END QUOTE FROM CHAIR

Jill responds: I don’t hear “American exceptionalism,” “American free enterprise,” “small business, the backbone of America,” “American Dream,” “low taxes,” “less government,” “energy for America,” "national security." I hear affirmative action and two people, Obama and Palin, accomplished a personal goal. Note to DUNCAN: It’s all over the news that O will ban drilling. Companies are laying people off in anticipation of higher taxes. Anyway…

The RNC is the organization for the Republican Party. (The DNC organizes the Democratic Party.) Organizations plan strategy (“strategery” ;) ), raise money, govern the convention, and create the platform. Twenty-four members in the RNC elect the chairperson. The RNC committee members administer the Republican Party under the Chair. They operate a website, too. You can visit them at www.rnc.com or org. RNC = GOP = Republican Party.

See the next post tomorrow for answers on leadership…no problem about answering q's. :)

Conservative Cabbie

Verity

For me anyway:

Bears are better than Alligators

The cold is better than oppressive heat

I'd prefer moose stew than Gumbo

No snakes in Alaska

I want to see Russia from my house

It would be easier to hide from the authorities if asylum's refused and I have to go illegal.

Jill

Joseph Farah writes at world net daily:

Changing times call for changing strategies.

And the election of 2008 should persuade freedom-loving people that times have changed.

Business as usual will not be enough to preserve the last vestiges of liberty in America. It will certainly not be enough to expand liberty, morality and justice in America – and that should be our goal.

Conservatism is a purely defensive political movement for a more innocent time, a time when our most basic constitutionally protected liberties were not being stripped from us – a time when government was not greatly exceeding its authority at the expense of personal freedom, social justice and the Judeo-Christian values necessary to self-governance.

As we prepare inevitably for an onslaught of legislation and government action designed to attack our national independence and sovereignty, redistribute wealth not only domestically but internationally, strangle dissent and freedom of speech, take away our right to bear arms and fundamentally pervert the Constitution through legislation, executive action and judicial activism, it's time for freedom-loving Americans to go on the offense. It's time not for timidity and civility and conservatism. It's time for a much more radical, bold and courageous approach to taking America back.

[Joseph Farah has written and published a full-blown program for "Taking America Back: A Radical Plan to Revive Freedom, Morality and Justice."]

For years I have been writing about the failure of conservatism. It has failed for a number of obvious reasons:

It is defensive in nature, seeking to hold on to ground rather than take the fight to the enemy and expand liberty.

It is reactive rather than proactive, meaning its agenda is set by the enemy rather than with a positive agenda of its own.

It is easily hijacked by people claiming to be conservatives when they are clearly not.

A movement that literally defines itself as one seeking to "conserve" is of little value when there is little left to conserve.
This new movement has a successful precedent in American history. It was the radical, patriotic, revolutionary movement of our colonial fathers. It launched the greatest experiment in liberty the world has ever known.

That should be our model. Nothing else will do. Our founders set out to separate themselves from those who oppressed them, from those who denied them their God-given human rights, from those who broke the law. They did this against all odds. They did this without concern about the popularity of their movement, only its rightness. And, with God's help, they succeeded, providing inspiration for people around the world for the last 232 years.

Don't get me wrong. I like conservatives. I am not criticizing them. For the most part, they believe in the right things. They have the right principles. But they are not freedom-fighters. They are not conditioned or prepared for the kind of struggle that is necessary now to take America back.

It's time to transform the conservative movement to one that is not conservative at all. Conservatives need to become radical, in the best sense of the word. They need to set much bigger and clearer goals for themselves. They need to wage their battle not just in the arena of politics, but throughout the culture – seeking to overthrow the institutions of power controlled by their enemies.

What do I mean?

Let me give you an example. Government schools cannot be reformed. They must be overthrown. I don't mean burned down. I mean abandoned – left behind, deserted, forsaken. The day conservatives are radicalized is the day the government indoctrination centers, the child-abuse detention camps and this corrupt, immoral system of mind control implode of their own dead weight.

It's time to declare your independence.

It's time to take responsibility for your own children.

It's time to say no.

The time for mere debate is over. The facts are clear. We have no one else to blame for our troubles if we refuse to take responsibility for our own lives and show our neighbors there is a better way – through self-governance and personal responsibility.

I don't suggest it will be easy. It wasn't easy for our founders. They risked their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor. It's time for contemporary freedom lovers and freedom fighters to do the same.

One more thing: Don't sit around waiting for a leader to emerge to start the movement and to give you marching orders. YOU are the leader. YOU are in charge of your family. YOU need to practice self-government if you want to see self-government spread. YOU are the leader you have been waiting for.

Make change happen in your life, in your family, in your community and that movement will spread like wildfire across this country.
End Quote
-----------------------
any thoughts?

Jill

One benefit of a Democratic Presidency is that it will expose the myth that U.S. disagreements with our nations are all the fault of the Bush Administration. Take the failure of NATO, and especially Germany, to supply more troops for the war in Afghanistan.

During his Presidential campaign, Barack Obama expressed confidence that his penchant for diplomacy would change German minds. Apparently not. Sending more soldiers, or troops who actually fight, remains anathema in Germany. "There is a limit," Peter Struck, the parliamentary head of the ruling Social Democrats and former Defense Minister, said this week when asked whether Germany could do more to help defeat the Taliban. Maybe Mr. Obama's speech before adoring crowds in Berlin last summer was not so effective after all.

When Europeans talk about "multilateralism," they typically don't mean agreeing on a common policy to carry out together. They mean defaulting global security to the United Nations, where Russian and Chinese vetoes curtail effective action. At best, multilateralism à la Paris and Berlin is short for European approval for where and how Americans may intervene around the world.

The Continent's free-riding on U.S. security while criticizing the way that security is provided predates the Bush Administration and will outlive it. President Bush has mainly provided Europeans with an excuse for refusing the kind of cooperation they'd rather not provide anyway. Mr. Obama has promised a multilateral surge of troops into the Afghanistan-Pakistan front. He may find, like Mr. Bush, that most of those troops will have to be American.
----------------------------
any thoughts?

Conservative Cabbie

Jill

Wow!

Where do I sign up?

Ronnie

Jill, I think you are half right about what you say regarding NATO and EU countries' willingness to go into combat.

In the case of the first Gulf War, there was tremendous support for the effort to free Kuwait and a genuine military coalition was created that included France and Germany. The mission was obvious and the strategy was clear.

The case for the Second Gulf War was, to say the least, surrounded in controversy with France and Germany not buying into it. Neither their governments or general populations supported it. In the case of the United Kingdom, Tony Blair's credibility was destroyed by the Second Gulf War and his period in office came to a rather ignominious end.

Having been defeated and shamed by the Second World War, the German people are still very reluctant to get involved in military operations abroad. Its a very difficlut political sell in Germany, especially when the parameters of the mission seem to be so vague. Nor do they like the idea of German troops fighting overseas and its also a bit strange for the rest of us too.

Similarly, the French need more clarity of purpose before they can win the domestic political arguement on Afghanistan. In addition, I think its fair to say that the French still prefer to confine their military activities to the French-speaking parts of the world. Such as those countries in Africa that were part of their old empire. The French are a bit conservative in these things and still have a bit of a colonial view.

John Reid, the Defence Secretary at the time, told the UK House of Commons that the British Army would engage in Afghanistan to support reconstruction and the troops would be home quickly without a shot being fired. Since them our troops have been engaged in the heaviest fighting they have encountered since the Korean war. The casualty list for both UK and US troops is mounting in Afghanistan without there seeming to be a clear strategy in place.

We are in Afghanistan to prevent the Taleban regaining power. We are there to support the current Afghan government, but we are not winning and there is no real belief that we can win.

The British army has been trying to pacify Afghanistan for a very long time and has never succeeded. I refer you to the works of Rudyard Kipling and others who fought there in the 19th century. The Afghans have defeated us, the Russians and anyone else who has wanted to have a fight with them. Many people in Europe see fighting in Afghanistan as pointless as well as hopeless and that is why they won't take part in it.

The Afghans are always fighting those who invade their homeland, the invaders are fighting to keep control of a very hostile piece of rock and dust. Who has the greater motivation in the medium term?

George W. Bush's role in this is to have used up all of the political capital required to build a coalition for action in Afghanistan. In European eyes the case for the Second Gulf War was false so why should they follow the US in Afghanistan, to fight in a war that can't ever be won?

However, Jill, you are absolutely right as it seems that some European governments are quite happy to see their security defended by American, and British, troops without feeling any need to help out.

That is shameful.

Anthony

'Source & sources', sharia is the legal framework. Islam is the religion.

The only person who doesn't get this is you.

'Isabella, Jeb and Jackie all seem to think “Islamic” suggests an old tradition whereas “sharia” does not.'

No they don't, which is why you have to resort to keep saying things like "all seem to think".

Unable to actually find any evidence to back up your assertions, you just resort to whatever warped opinion is wafting about inside your head.

For sharia to be applied anywhere it has to be given a legal status, that is why the phrase "sharia-compliant" is correct - it is a form of legal transaction complying with law - in this case, sharia law.

As has been pointed out. An Islamist took the principles of sharia law and constructed a set of financial laws around them in order to increase the divisions between West and East and to help the latter obliterate the former. How's that for hate and prejudice?

As to Frank Gaffney's journalism. You haven't disproven a single thing he has said. It's backed up by other journalistic sources that others have cited - all of which contradict you.

You pulling strange thoughts out of your head doesn't somehow mean they are real.

Augustus

Regarding the Germans' attitude to fighting in Afghanistan: The conception in much of Europe about an insurgency in far off places often centres around the political goals of the 'peace keepers' and what exactly NATO is trying to achieve. This, coupled with the fact that, as the Germans know only too well, it is not possible to 'win' an occupation. Also, the history of invading forces in Afghanistan clearly shows the difficulties in beating them into submission, and the terrain, the narcotics trade, the toughness of the Taliban and their ability to muster support, all make military strategies and victories excessively difficult.

Verity

Jill, Thanks so much for Joseph Farah’s quote. I was intrigued by his radical definition of conservatism and I think, at first glance, given the times in both of our countries, he is right. We need to become more robust.

Frankly, though, I despair. The left has marched through our institutions and claimed all as its territory, and there are no Gates of Vienna. There’s nothing to stop them. This is evidenced by the deliberate, and deeply destructive and deeply stupid, vote for a Marxist for president of the United States. Throughout this election, I was astounded that people couldn’t understand that they were running Obama not because he’s highly intelligent (which he is not), not because he loves his country and wants to serve it, not because he wants to expand liberty and wealth but because … he’s half black (they promoted him as being black, of course) in the knowledge that 1. Voting for him would make people feel frightfully open-minded, modern and possessed of a great soul, and 2. Anyone speaking against him could be hit with the crude and effective cudgel of “racist!”.

Obama is also fairly good looking – or was a year ago; I think he has degenerated over this year – had an elegant air about him - was a good performer on the auto-cue; and, most important, is immensely biddable. He takes orders well. They tell him what to do and what to say and he does it because rather than seeing himself as the marionette he is, he views himself as a hero.

I was not astounded that the BBC, a most sinister organization, threw itself behind Obama, but was rather shaken when that bastion of conservatism, The Daily Telegraph went all into a lather over him. Charles Moore, who, when he was editor, refused to run any of the Motoons because he was frightened of Alastair Campbell (you won’t get the reference, Jill, but the Brits here will). This was one of the first signs that manipulative bullying could work a treat at the highest levels, even on conservative turf. Now we’ve seen it – don’t criticize Obama, you vile racist – work in America, too.

I will read more of Joseph Farah, Jill, and thanks again for the introduction. He is certainly right about the school system!

Verity

Conservative Cabbie – I follow your reasoning. I’ve never been to Juneau, the state capital, but Anchorage is a very nice city – geared for the cold, so it’s comfortable. It's also geared for business. Office towers, smart shops, smart restaurants. And on the weekends, you can drive for about 30 or 40 minutes and be among the glaciers. Of course, you wouldn’t want to do this too often as glaciers don’t change much in the course of a week, but it’s awesome.

Anthony – Thanks.

Frank P

Jill

Please let us know when you get a job on a serious magazine; I shall subscribe immediately. I would recommend the Spectator, but it is known for its parsimony and I'm not sure they can any longer be regarded as a 'serious' magazine, given their editorial coverage of the US general erection. Its blogs are fine, though (despite the background noise) particularly when writing talent such as yours finds its way here, packed with devastating rejoinders, wily wit and excellent notation. A dancing pen indeed. You have played a prime role in making this thread an all time record hit count since Melanie's blog inauguration in 2003 (unless someone knows differently?). And you must get bonus points for engaging with the prolix neighbourly Maberley and his gratuitous and skewed history lessons. I worry about that degree of toleration, though, as you could well be put-upon, eventually (just a friendly, albeit gratuitous, caveat).

sauce and sources

Anthony

Quite a lot of bluster, bold assertion and insult, but little argument. I'll see if I can do better.

You are very categoric that I, J and J don't think “Islamic suggests an old tradition whereas sharia does not” Why is that? Have you read them? I can only go on what they write but this seems a fair summation of Isabelle and Jackie's views in particular.

Isabelle thinks “The word Islamic implies an old tradition, but this is not the case”. She prefers “sharia” and this is the only reason she gives for doing so. Presumably she thinks “sharia” doesn't imply an old tradition, or the same objection would apply and there would be no reason to prefer “sharia” over “Islamic”.

Jackie objects to “Islamic” on similar grounds. She thinks it can only be applied to things that existed in Mohammed's time, so it can't be applied to Islamic finance. Of course this is nonsense, but again she evidently doesn't think the same objections applies to “sharia”.

So why the denial? I don't get it.

Your next paragraph is just an insult dressed up as a charge for which you provide no justification.

You then allege that for sharia to be applied it has to be given legal status. At best this misses the point. Isn't it quite possible for my neighbour to get a Islamic/sharia compliant mortgage without any change to the English legal system? And isn't that what many have done?

You don't see that you need a sharia legal system to avoid doing things that conflict with sharia. You seem to think you do. Why?

I don't know how to respond to your next paragraph. Please explain how a few Islamic mortgages are going to help the East obliterate the West. Please also explain how they are going to increase divisions. It seems to me on the contrary that they can facilitate exchanges.

You claim I haven't disproven a thing Gaffney has said. I think I have shown he lied. It's a charge that Jeb has effectively accepted and no one has really challenged. And that includes you.

What do you claim contradicts me?. If you are going to make allegations like that you need to give examples.

Jill

Hayward Maberley,

I have a professor, too. He’s a Libertarian economics professor at a military college, and I’m sure he can run circles around your guy. As for Hamilton, he’s your guy, too (elitist). We both know about Hamilton and Jefferson, but history proves your statement wrong. You fail to mention the rise of the middle class and the ascendancy of Jeffersonian ideals best represented today among Republicans in rural America who voted against O. Hamilton, on the other hand, is best represented among the elites from both parties and worldviews. Sorry, your analysis just didn’t cut through all the American patriot writings on liberty and personal responsibility that I’ve ingested since birth. And, Hayward, I feel like Eve standing in front of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil talking to you; and the serpent sounds like Mr. Howard on "Gilligan’s Island," stressssing the sssss’s and ssssporting a reptilian ssssmile.

phil

Are any of you falling for this rubbish from Jill? I know the two stooges Verity and Frank P are but read it carefully and see this woman appears to be calling for an insurrection -is she just an out and out anarchist or just one who likes to "hear" the sound of her own voice .She trades professors with other posters claiming libertarians superiority and packs two lines of facts into a full page ,

AS FOR YOUR REPLY TO ME JILL, I WOULD REFER TO MYSELF AS NEITHER BLACK NOR WHITE JUST AS A PERSON ,and yes I know capitals are shouting.The statement that I am the bigot just shows what a narcissistic foolish person - you are ,one who cannot refrain from writing long and useless messages to people who mostly I believe do not want to hear .You are addressing your own "friends " here and turning many posters away from what has become a very boring thread .Most of the names I recognise have disappeared ,certainly most of the intelligent ones -The cabbie ,Howard and Ronnie(the few others will forgive me) are hanging on but for how long ? I t is certainly not for me to say who can post here but I can ask that you try and write some sense rather than your filibusters of nonsense ,

.Sen Obama has won the election if I might remind you, with acclamation all round the world ,the vast majority of us are ready to give him a chance to do what is necessary for what we hope will be a great recovery, not only financially but morally too.Until you have put up or shut up perhaps you will humour us with a little less advice ,or stand for the next election ,now there,s a thought .

This has become a series of endless love ins between you and your two stooges each in turn massaging your own egos and if I am the only one willing to say it ,so be it -Verity and Frank P have had their day and that day has long since past .Nail your reputation to their mast ,I can hear the laughter round the end of my lane .

Jill

BEGIN QUOTE of WSJ "Same Old Berlin Wall
In Germany, a limit to the change we can believe in"--unknown author: One benefit of a Democratic Presidency is that it will expose the myth that U.S. disagreements with our nations are all the fault of the Bush Administration. Take the failure of NATO, and especially Germany, to supply more troops for the war in Afghanistan.
[...]

----------------------------
I re-cut and paste so you know where the above article comes from in case you want to look it up, and so you know I didn't write it. :) They didn't show an author so it may be from their top editor at the WSJ. Sorry for any confusion. I wrote the article at the BBC link that I provided, though :) I imitated the journalist's style who was in charge of the American panelists. He is a nice guy. What you say about the BBC organization is true. However, for their presentation of American voters, the BBC journalist presented our views from the right without censorship. I flooded his email almost daily with O articles and videos from the right. He tolerated me without cracking. I was impressed. Aren't you glad they didn't have a panel of "undecides?" ARGH!

Your confidence in me is well-placed, not because I think that I'm "good," but because I have supportive family, church, and friends. I also have excellent teachers with high standards. It's been hard to stay focused this semester. Next summer I graduate. Working for "Spectator" sounds interesting. Another publication is "Business and Media." I'm open to possibilities, although my family has been tempted to move to the mountains and stock up on red-winter wheat berries and ammunition.

Thank you for the kind words and expressions of support. It means a lot to me :)

We really need a discussion board.

OH BOY! Rush Limbaugh is on!!!

Jill

Conserv Cabbie,

There is a Draft Michael Steele for RNC Chair website.

About next election: look at all the republican governors for potentials.

I'm studying everything just as you are.

We're facing a run off in my state right now in Congress.

phil

OH HELL I DIDNT MEAN TO MAKE HER LOSE IT- sorry if that is really her at 5.21 I THINK A GASKET HAS BEEN BLOWN -can we get a translation ? oh dear !!

Verity

Jill thinks " Working for "Spectator" sounds interesting". Yes, it sounds interesting to many of our own British would-be interns who are familiar with our politics, history and mores, too.

Hayward Maberley

Jill,
I have to agree with you concerning Alexander Hamilton. An early example of a self serving, aggrandising politician seeking fame, power and as much fortune as possible, at the expense of the citizens whom he claimed to be serving.
Thomas Jefferson was a great and gifted man, but he did have that backstop of an estate and the income generated from it. He could have walked away at any time, back to Monticello. He was incredibly the right man, in the right place, at the right time, in which the fledgling Republic was incredibly fortunate. A polymath and intellectual, a man of the enlightenment, well travelled, a man with an international outlook, he would know that the French had a word for entrepreneur (unable to resist that), a deist, a small r republican but not just a man of thought. He was a man of deed with practical skills and knowledge. Above all a man of great public spirit who gave so much to the Republic for which he helped lay the foundations.
However even given all of this one wonders whether Jefferson would get up in either major party today as a possible candidate?
As for your statement “the ascendancy of Jeffersonian ideals best represented today among Republicans in rural America who voted against O.”
From what I have seen and from what is evident in much of rural USA there is not much evidence of the ideals of Jefferson shown in brief above. In fact they would be more likely to call him an infidel as was done by the Federalist opposition when he stood for President the first time.
“I feel like Eve standing in front of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil talking to you; and the serpent sounds like Mr. Howard on "Gilligan’s Island,"
Careful with your mix of metaphors there, Jill. Interesting that you see yourself as Eve. Mr Jung might have something to say of interest there. But surely though tempted you will not succumb to the blandishments of a talking snake. Does this plot include Dr Doolittle translating as well? The OT and Gilligan's Island is a strange combination. However if you are to mix fiction and show biz I would say the the island was more reminiscent of Shangri-La than the Garden of Eden before the Fall. As far as I can recall there were no apple trees on the Island
Who by the way is this sibilant Mr Howard? Australia had someone of the same name, our late, unlamented Prime Mendacious who definitely spoke with a forked tongue. In fact Mr Howard had another sotbriquet , The Lying Rodent from a member of his own party. He and The Faux Texan, the current encumbrance in the White House, got on so well that Dubya called him The Man of Steel and Howard was proud to be Deputy Dawg to Sheriff Bush in the Iraq Fiasco.
I think you must be referring to Thurston Howell III aka The Millionaire as the sibilant one.

Hayward Maberley

Jill,
No one wins in Afghanistan. A history of attempts to invade and occupy hat part of the world we now call Afghanistan point out just one thing. Don’t do it!.
It results in the various Afghani peoples behaving just like you with your talk of taking to the mountains with “red-winter wheat berries and ammunition.” When invaded they fall back and wait until they want to attack. That is the problem with occupations, the occupiers are just that they are not the indigenous, the natives, the residents. Sooner or later they leave.
Alexander the Great took about six months to conquer the Iranian part of the Persian Empire. But it took him nearly three years to subdue most of the area that is now Afghanistan. It was done with the utmost brutality, even so it did not work. Moving eastward from what is today is Herat, he encountered fierce resistance from the ancestors of the Pashtun. A letter to his mother, describes his encounters with them. Alexander writes;
"I am involved in the land of a 'Leonine' (lion-like) and brave people, where every Foot of the ground is like a well of steel, confronting my soldier. You have brought only one son into the world, but Everyone in this land can be called an Alexander.”
In fact Iskander is a name used by tribes today.
Local resistance and the difficult terrain made it difficult for Alexander's forces to subdue the region as all other invaders/occupiers have found. The extremely mountainous terrain of Afghanistan is like a maze that often traps them. Such as the British who have, so far, had three campaigns for two losses and a draw. The USSR, having had its own US assisted Viet Nam withdrew, really a loss. The UK should really have known better, from history, than to go back in again.
As a child I heard some interesting stories from my grandfather who was a senior NCO in the British Army. His unit was stationed up in the Indian NWFP, now in Pakistan, in the late 1920s and early ‘30s. They were there to patrol that strange border The Durand Line.
The Durand Line, separating Afghanistan and British India, had been drawn with no regard to the tribal territory of the Pushtun. His unit attempted to control crossings by Pushtun raiders and stock thieves. The Pushtun then paid and now pay no regard to this boundary.
How long will US/NATO/Australian troops be in Afghanistan?
Somewhat like that question about string.
Btw Jill do you know the longest war in which the USA has ever engaged ?
An aside to Mr Pulley,
Thanks for your comment. In fact all the posts to this blog are gratuitous as far as I am aware. Unless of course earning McCain/Palin troll points. Or are you and Verity and possibly Jill paid for your contributions? As for prolix, V and J must still be well ahead. Everyone has to be prepared to be put upon when putting up a post.
Skew is in the eye of the beholder, the above is real history Mr Pulley. Just the facts. Though anything can be debated/disputed/updated of course.
Regards,
Hayward the Neighbourly

Jill

phil, have you ever heard of lobster mentality? A bunch of lobsters are placed in a pail. The instinct is to climb out, but as soon as one reaches the rim of the pail, another lobster reaches up and pulls him back down.

You might observe the phenomenon in some families, dysfunctional peer groups, government dependent communities, or China, Cuba, and California that view success as a limited pie. Individuals give up on their dreams and act jealous. They laugh at people (Joe the Plumber, Sarah, me) who are trying. I feel sorry for people who can't believe in themselves so they try to tear down someone's dream. I feel sorry for you.

Conservative Cabbie

Verity/Jill

The link below points to an interview with Bobby Jindal on MSNBC about the future of the GOP (about 8 minutes long).

I'm becoming more and more impressed with him. Interesting that when the interviewer tried to draw him on Sarah Palin, he didn't want to really discuss her. Either he doesn't approve or he sees her as a future rival.

Have a look, it's interesting.
http://tinyurl.com/56de49

Conservative Cabbie

An interesting post-election survey which might be evidence that Obama's win may be only a blip (albeit possibly an 8 yr blip) in GOP fortunes.

McLaughlin & Associates conducted a survey asking people about whether they favoured a samll government with less services or a larger government.

Overall, 53% favoured smaller government, 28% a larger one. 78% Republicans, 78% of self-described conservatives, 54% Independents and 46% of self-described moderates all favoured smaller government. On the other side, only 33% Democrats and 25% self-described liberals were in favour of government being smaller. In terms of age, the only group wanting larger government were 18-25 yr olds.

More evidence that we haven't witnessed a seismic shift in American politics towards liberalism and that while Obama certainly has an electoral mandate, he doesn't have an ideological one.

Conservative Cabbie

More evidence that Sarah Palin is actually pretty damn good at governance.

Remember her controversial policy of shooting wolves from helicopters. Well it's just been revealed that prior to the implementation of this policy, only one caribou calf per 100 caribou would survive until adulthood. Since the implementation by Sarah Palin, now 39 calves per 100 survive.

Now you may disagree with the policy itself, possibly on animal rights grounds, but the success of the policy itself is more evidence that despite her interview techniques and concerns over her 'knowledgeability', this is a person who knows how to govern.

phil

JILL thank you for your kind thoughts-I like my lobsters cold with a butter sauce

.You have brought to mind a sign I saw some while ago in a friends kitchen it said "encyclopaedia Britannica for sale half price ef--n wife knows everything"you are obviously very young and maybe you mean well,but take a little advice from someone older and more experienced than you could possibly be -do not believe all you read in newspapers ,blogs or from professors you might have a crush on -remember well to listen to the other side of the story and do not assume that with your superior knowledge the vast majority are wrong -they usually are not -

I AM NATURALLY A REPUBLICAN SYMPATHISER BUT IN THIS CASE THE democrats had by far the superior candidate -your friend verity in her loveable manner continues to say that Obama is not intelligent .do you wonder why I see her as a fool ?you have won over the sad mentalities of frank and verity but you will only be given respect when you can persuade posters like Ronnie ,Howard and numerous others who are obviously fed up with your longwinded cut outs -many have said all good young people start out well to the left and with experience move towards the middle but for you to start so far to the right bodes ill for your future happiness -I HOPE YOU MAY CHANGE BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE .

Tom Cat

source and sources asks:

“Isn't it quite possible for my neighbour to get a Islamic/sharia compliant mortgage without any change to the English legal system? And isn't that what many have done?”

But it doesn’t stop there, does it? This is how sharia enters by the back door.

We can see this in the way these products have developed.

The banks started off not with sharia-compliant products, but with sharia-based products. And now look how quickly that has developed into sharia-compliant products.

This then becomes an excuse to call for sharia in other areas of life. That is how we get to the call for changes to the English legal system that we have been hearing.

That’s why it’s called sharia creep.

‘Please explain how a few Islamic mortgages are going to help the East obliterate the West.’

But it isn’t a ‘few’ Islamic mortgages. It would thousands of these things.

And how are they ‘going to help the East obliterate the West’?

Because they are one piece in a much bigger jigsaw.

The first part of that is cultural – the effort to put sharia on a par with Western law. The second part has the potential to see money going towards terrorist activity from the zakat levy and then on to charities that clandestinely support terrorist activity.

This possibility was demonstrated in the Panorama programme of 2006 in which Islamic charity Interpal was shown to be aiding terrorist activity. It was even mentioned on Melanie Phillips’ blog.

You profess to be interested in hate and prejudice, ’source and sources’, so let’s look at just a little of the hate and prejudice funded revealed in this documentary:

“In last weekend’s programme, [John] Ware had obtained eye-opening footage of charities funded by this route – such as the sickening video of small Palestinian children glorifying suicide bombing by chanting in brainwashed unison about making a ladder to heaven from their own skulls; or the head of an orphanage who professed astonishment that on his institution’s wall was a plaque depicting a fist holding a Koran above a world that it was inundating with blood.”

www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1310

The programme isn’t available online, but here’s a snippet:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qXmZ6WrS4Qw

A world covered in blood in an institution for young people. That suggests trying to inculcate an awful lot of hate and prejudice doesn’t it? Hate and prejudice to every non-Muslim, wherever they are.

And that was just the stuff John Ware was able to uncover. The Charity Commission, which supposedly oversees the use of UK-raised charity money, didn’t have a clue about any of this when it was put them in the programme.

So how do we know other similar charities are not doing this or would not do this? The Charity Commission clearly had no idea this one was doing this, so how can it possibly know whether other Islamic charities are up to the same?

What if money from sharia mortgages goes this way via the zakat levy on them? Zakat money gets distributed to Islamic charities.

You ask: ‘Please also explain how they are going to increase divisions. It seems to me on the contrary that they can facilitate exchanges.’

As was pointed out earlier, the man at the forefront of devising this form of finance, Abul-Ala Mawdudi, did so with the express purpose ‘to minimize relations with non-Muslims’.

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/4973

phil

JILL may I impose on you a little further as you plainly know more of the politicians in the USA than I do -can you tell me more about ROBERT GATES ,JIM LEACH ,CHUCK HAGEL,AND RICHARD LUGAR,(I do know a little about COLIN POWELL),as most of these men are being considered it seems for cabinet posts by pres elect Obama -they are as you will know Republicans so I am left wondering how you account for this in view of the oft made statements that O is so left -it would be most kind if you could help me here .You could include your interpretation of his appointment of a Jewish right hand man when he is "known" to be an Islamist -sorry but you can expect no help from verity here as she claims not to read what I write :) -if you believe that you will believe elephants fly -oh just seen one !

Is it indeed a trick and have I been wrong all along-? it is a strange departure from the dire warnings we have been getting from the right for so long -I do remember that we had here in the UK a government of all parties during the second world war when we needed the nation to pull together to defeat hitler.-Helpful what one can remember when age creeps up on us

.I am not setting you an exam here but it would be more interesting to get this information than some of the posts you have been making -if it goes well we could set up our own magazine and I will appoint you the editor -happy days

Hayward Maberley

Jill and Mr Cabbie,
Both of you waxing ecological/ethological

The lobster story is just that. It is based on this Canadian self deprecatory story.
A Maritime fisherman is carrying a pail of lobsters up from the wharf. Another fisherman warns him that the lobsters might escape because there's no lid on the pail. "Oh no," says the first fisherman. "These are Canadian lobsters, boys. As soon as one makes it to the top, the others will drag him down."
Jill, are there any lobster ethology studies on this behaviour, any papers published ? I have had a quick hunt but no luck so far.

By all accounts that aerial wolf shooting which is opposed on many grounds is not there on a ecological/wildlife management basis. It is a very expensive way of assuring that there are lots of prey, moose and caribou for hunters to shoot. This so that they do not have to work too hard at tracking and portering back their kill.
If as you say the numbers of caribou surviving past calf stage have increased that dramatically there will be a problems later in overgrazing, ecological/habitat damage and possibly disease
Mr Cabbie, please visit to the site below to see how the re introduction of wolves, absent for 70 years, to Yellowstone has improved the ecological landscape.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/10/031029064909.htm
Do not be too quick to credit Governor Palin with ecological ”knowledgeability”
I am not against hunting per se. I use to bow hunt rabbit and hare and kept ferrets for rabbiting in the UK as a kid. I have also rifle hunted feral goat and pig as well as ‘roo in Australia, but have always eaten or given to others to eat what I had killed.

Ronnie

Cabbie, 'More evidence that we haven't witnessed a seismic shift in American politics towards liberalism and that while Obama certainly has an electoral mandate, he doesn't have an ideological one.'

Exactly and at last, a little perspective is introduced to help calm the general hysteria.

No less than I expect from your good self.

Hayward Maberley

Mr Cabbie,
When you post this
“McLaughlin & Associates conducted a survey asking people about whether they favoured a samll government with less services or a larger government.” followed by the figures....

There could be a problem in that this survey is probably not an unbiased one in either the methodology/population sample or the questionnaire.
What leads me to think this? See below which was top right,front page of their own website

The Washington Times cites McLaughlin & Associates as one of the best Republican polling firms.

A closer look at their web site makes it evident that they do a great deal of their work for the GOP in one way or another.

Or am I just being cynical?

Verity

Conservative Cabbie - thanks. I'll go to the link. I like Jindal not just for his personality, which is quite beguiling, and his intelligence, but Indians have a most appealing sense of humour. (I know he's a Christian convert, but racially, he's a Hindu.)

When you chose Alaska as your destination as an illegal immigrant, I sent you this, but, like half of what people try to post, it got eaten by this deeply inefficient and stupid system: Conservative Cabbie – I follow your reasoning. I’ve never been to Juneau, the state capital, but Anchorage is a very nice city – geared for the cold, so it’s comfortable. Office towers, smart shops, smart restaurants. And on the weekends, you can drive for about 30 or 40 minutes and be among the glaciers. Of course, you wouldn’t want to do this too often as glaciers don’t change much in the course of a week, but it’s awesome.

Ronnie

Verity, you do know that 'Hindu' isn't a race?

This isn't actually for Verity, she won't read it. I'm just making a point.

sauce and sources

Tom Cat

Well the original suggestion (from Melanie but falsely claimed by her to be from Gaffney) was that s sharia law was about to be imposed on the American banking system.

As I pointed out Gaffney hadn't said that. I also said Gaffney was unreliable and that he lied.

I've copped a good few insults and there's been some pretty dismal arguments put forward. But no one seems to be disputing this anymore.

There appears therefore to be a tacit acknowledgement that my comment about Melanie and her use of sources was right. She chooses dodgy sources and she misuses them. You don't seem to dispute this either.

You want me to believe however that despite all the flaws and the nasty distortions that work to fuel prejudice and fears, actually there really really really is something you've called “sharia creep”.

The problem is Gaffney and Melanie would have us believe that they'd found proof of this. But when you look at it it's a rehashed half day seminar from 6 years ago, probably on what an Islamic mortgage is. It's all based on nonsense and it fueled by something that looks a lot like hatred.

Verity

Well, Ronnie, I don't usually bother responding to your comments, but you are right. I thought when I was writing it that someone might catch me out, but I didn't want to flatten out the comment by referring to Aryan because it wouldn't have worked.

But you are right. Hindu is an adherent of a religion, not a race. Or, because Hindus do not accept that Hinduism is a religion, I should say "belief system".

Ronnie

Verity, I thought you didn't read my comments...

I shall cherish this moment for ever. The sun has broken through the clouds, the rain has stopped and the wind has abated.

Is that a choir I hear?

phil

RONNIE FOR AMUSEMENT ONLY """Well, Ronnie, I don't usually bother responding to your comments, but you are right."" SHE ALWAYS DOES THOUGH:)cant keep a good girl down -it reminds me of doctor strangeloves hand,but I have to say her guided tours of Alaska are worth reading -very blase/

Verity

Meanwhile, back to Dynasty. We haven’t seen any photo ops of a serious and sad – but statesmanlike – Obama in Hawaii, so I assume the grandmother hasn’t been buried yet. Or maybe she’s been thrown back under the bus. And what’s new on the elderly, disabled, illegal immigrant aunt and uncle of Obama who have been under deportation orders for four years, and are living in sheltered accommodation in Boston at taxpayer expense?

Re the Kenyan wing, how is half-brother George Obama who lives in a hut in Nairobi on a dollar a day doing? And the militant Islamic politician half-brother who, aided by Obama, who flew over specially, won a district in Kenya and immediately imposed shariah law on the entire population. What’s the latest on the ethnic cleansing programme he instituted? Every soap opera needs a gay subplot. Step forward the marvelously named Obongo Obama, who is reputed to be gay, although we don’t know whether he’s out of the closet, or whether he even has a closet. http://www.topix.com/forum/news/2008-presidential-election/TT8NVAI2LIGO4IQ8A

Once this lot get the keys to the White House, it’s going to make The Beverly Hillbillies look like Niles and Frasier.

Jill

Phil writes: JILL thank you for your kind thoughts-I like my lobsters cold with a butter sauce

Jill: hahaha No problem :)

Phil writes: You have brought to mind a sign I saw some while ago in a friends kitchen it said "encyclopaedia Britannica for sale half price ef--n wife knows everything"you are obviously very young and maybe you mean well,but take a little advice from someone older and more experienced than you could possibly be -do not believe all you read in newspapers ,blogs or from professors you might have a crush on -remember well to listen to the other side of the story and do not assume that with your superior knowledge the vast majority are wrong -they usually are not –

Phil: I take advice if it's sound, even from babies, and I surely don’t mind taking criticism from good people. I appreciate the youth label, but I’m not a youth. I don’t have a “crush” on a professor, either. I was making light of Hayward’s reference to “his professor;” your criticism fits him, not me because I was giving it right back to him. If I seem naïve, well, give it time. In my defense, I don’t think I’m worse than anybody else. I wasn't seduced by the O.

Phil: I AM NATURALLY A REPUBLICAN SYMPATHISER BUT IN THIS CASE THE democrats had by far the superior candidate -your friend verity in her loveable manner continues to say that Obama is not intelligent .do you wonder why I see her as a fool ?you have won over the sad mentalities of frank and verity but you will only be given respect when you can persuade posters like Ronnie ,Howard and numerous others who are obviously fed up with your longwinded cut outs -many have said all good young people start out well to the left and with experience move towards the middle but for you to start so far to the right bodes ill for your future happiness -I HOPE YOU MAY CHANGE BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE .

Jill writes: Obama is not intelligent. He is only perceived that way and "acts" intellectual, just as he “acts” presidential. Need I remind you who supported the socialists in Germany in the 20th century? Obama has the stamp of approval because he went to elite schools. Verity is correct. Obama was selected because he will do as he is told. She is not a fool. About Right and Left, Right is freedom from government tyranny. Left is tyranny. You are right that I will never submit to tyranny. The Middle ground is where we are crushed. I apologize for “long winded” posts as you characterize it. Part of the reason is terror so many of us feel about the immediate future with a Marxist in the White House. It is real and not exaggerated fear of tyranny shown in various statistics. Check out the figures for new gun sales in comparison to other crisis, such as 9/11, and other presidential elections. Gun sales are off the charts. People are stocking up now more than they did after 9/11. I’m aware of the need for a discussion board where like minded can work political action. A discussion board is on my To Do list for the holiday break.

I’m so glad we are able to clear the air with "dialogue." I’m always amazed that the people on the left claim tolerance and pacifism, but they are among the least tolerant and peaceful people I’ve ever met.

Tom Cat

Sauce and sources, you say: ‘Well the original suggestion (from Melanie but falsely claimed by her to be from Gaffney) was that s sharia law was about to be imposed on the American banking system.’

It is. The American politician who went out to the Middle East, Robert Kimmitt, admitted as much: “The US government is currently studying the salient features of Islamic banking”. Precisely. That is because any money coming from over there would have to be subject to sharia law - it waltzes in the back door.

‘As I pointed out Gaffney hadn't said that.’ He didn’t use those exact words, no, but that is precisely the effect of what he said.

‘I also said Gaffney was unreliable and that he lied.’ Yes, we know you said this. You’ve said it about umpteen times. You’ve never proven this, though.

The sum total of your proof on Frank Gaffney producing a falsehood is:

‘I think I have shown he lied.’

Give us the proof then.

That’s how it works in the real world.

If you call someone a liar, you are supposed to prove it.

Someone else has even provided news links to other news websites that report on the two news events Gaffney referred to.

Where are your references to support your allegation of Frank Gaffney lying?

You haven’t got any.

It’s just you saying: ‘I think I have shown he lied.’

sauce and sources

Top Cat

If you are going to criticise someone, it would help if you read what they have written and then engaged your brain. You haven't.

If you had read you would know that (whilst I wouldn't want to rely on them – since Gaffney can't be relied upon to tell things straight) I was not disputing the news reports. So your reference to other news websites which apparently report something of the same misses the point. It's irrelevant.

Just to make it clear, the allegation that he lied does not relate to those reports. Got it? Does not relate to those reports.

It relates to his claim that what is called “Islamic Finance” is “better known” as “Shariah-Compliant Finance (SFC)” (Yer, that's right he can't even get the acronym right, remember, SFC not SCF, eh?)

So to really labour the point for people who can't be bothered to read things before they jump in, why do I think it is a lie? Because:

1 It does not conform to my own experience. I am familiar with the expression “Islamic Finance”. Though I would have understood what “Shariah-Compliant Finance” meant, I do not know I had ever heard the expression before reading Gaffney.

2 My own experience is borne out by doing searches on these terms. Islamic Finance and Islamic Banking score many more hits.

3 Six people have so far posted comments criticising what I wrote. But none of them have asserted in Gaffney's defence that “Shariah-Compliant Finance” is the better known expression.

4 One of them has admitted to the contrary that Islamic Finance is the more common expression.

Now short of asking every English speaker which expressions they recognise or which they think is the more common, this seems about as good a proof as your going to get.

Hayward Maberley

Jill,
“Need I remind you who supported the socialists in Germany in the 20th century?”
And who did the supporting in Germany? Big Money/Big Industry/Military.
Let me remind you Jill that it was in fact the Nazis that they supported. The socialists, social democrats, communists, trade unionists, Jews and any others that opposed Hitler were all being rounded up and sent off to camps.
Many in the US and UK thought also that Hitler was doing a fine job in Germany. Joe Kennedy thought so, as did Watson of IBM , whose machines helped Eichmann run the trains on time for the Holocaust and Henry Ford. Not to forget , of course, the Bush/Prescott Bank. In the UK most of the ruling/upperclass thought Hitler was a good chap.
And why did these leading citizens of the USA and UK think this? Exactly because Hitler was suppressing dissent, the trade unions et al. and was shipping the “Reds” off to camps. In fact there are allegations that the then Prince of Wales would have considered becoming Gauleiter of Britain under the Nazis.

Barackobama

Tom Cat.
You will be pleased to hear that sharia compliant banking's advance has been halted in its tracks. It's because sharia scholars can't agree about what sharia finance is and never have and never will. That's because sharia scholars can't agree what the sharia is and never have and never will. The result is that Muslims can't agree about anything much and never have and never will. The only people that are certain what being a Muslim requires are people who are certain they are not Muslim. This will not change and never has and never will.

Ronnie

Tom Cat, et al, how much middle eastern capital do you think has been invested in the United States, particularly Saudi money, over the last 20 years or more?

How did you feel when US strategic port assets were almost bought by investors from the UAE recently?

Why did the issue of Islamic finance not come up then?

It comes up now because stock exchanges are developing in a number of Arab countries and are attracting international investment inward. Investors therefore need to understand the regulatory framework within which these new markets operate, including Islamic financial structures.

So, to summarise, 'Islamic' investments have been flooding into western economies for years, and that is potentially dangerous. Learning about Islamic finance is a normal and necessary step for western investors to buy into middle eastern capital markets.

Maybe it is sinsiter, but I doubt it.

Hayward Maberley

Mr Cabbie,
Alaskan glaciers are changing faster than Verity would have you believe.
From The Alaska Almanac: Glaciers cover approximately 29,000 square miles, c. 3 % of Alaska. However they are receding on average by 10 feet a year. That means that even though there is still new ice being made and moving forward, it is not enough to replace the amount lost through surface melt and/or calving.
and an extract from a web page with much on glaciers
Alaska's glaciers are receding at twice the rate previously thought, according to a new study published in the July 19, 2002 Science journal. The Portage Glacier, near Anchorage, since 1950 has receded quite dramatically
see @
http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/glaciers.html

Regards

Jill

Mr. Phil: JILL may I impose on you a little further as you plainly know more of the politicians in the USA than I do -can you tell me more about ROBERT GATES ,JIM LEACH ,CHUCK HAGEL,AND RICHARD LUGAR,(I do know a little about COLIN POWELL),as most of these men are being considered it seems for cabinet posts by pres elect Obama -they are as you will know Republicans so I am left wondering how you account for this in view of the oft made statements that O is so left -it would be most kind if you could help me here .

Jill: No problem, every president chooses people from the “other” party for the cabinet. The President is theoretically non-partisan. For instance, Treasury Secretary Paulson, who engineered the infamous Bail Out under Bush, is a Democrat.

If O wants to show me he repents of Marxism, he would tell Pelosi and Reid on National TV that he is against "spread the wealth.” He would denounce all plans for a National Civilian Security Force. He would announce support for capital gains tax cut. He would confront Pelosi on bans for oil drilling and request the EPA to release a coal permit for a company in Utah that the EPA is blocking, etc…

You asked about specific people:

Robert Gates: I cut and pasted from the Defenselink.mil. "Dr. Robert M. Gates was sworn in on December 18, 2006, as the 22nd Secretary of Defense. Before entering his present post, Secretary Gates was the President of Texas A&M University, the nation's seventh largest university.

Prior to assuming the presidency of Texas A&M on August 1, 2002, he served as Interim Dean of the George Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M from 1999 to 2001."

He's a Bushie. Is that "change you can believe in"? In O's defense, it's slim pickings on the Dem side if you are filling a military post.

Leach? OMG, he might as well join the Marxist wing of the Democratic Party and get it over with. Leach is a former Iowa Representative in the House. His voting record is on the same left side as Obama. Leach scores a lifetime conservative rating of 33, which is much higher than Bernie Sanders, a self-described Socialist, at 6.67; or Obama at 8, Biden at 12, and Pelosi at 3. To give you a comparison on the other side, McCain is a center right with the record to prove it at 83, where most Americans say they are. My senator scores 92 and is struggling to hold onto his seat in a run-off Dec 2nd because he is “not conservative enough.” My representative in the House is 100. He sailed through the election. You can’t call yourself a true conservative unless you are in the 90s AND voted against the bail out. What does that say about Leach?

Chuck: A headline From Huffington Post May 2008 “Chuck Hagel Takes On McCain, Repeatedly Praises Obama” --Hagel is a senator from Nebraska with a ACU lifetime rating slightly higher than McCain at 84.67. (You can look up senators and house representatives online at the American Conservative Union or ACLU--Liberal scorekeepers.)

Richard Lugar is an Indiana senator with a ACU lifetime score of 78. (Having a lifetime score means they have been in Washington long enough to blend in with the wallpaper.)

These republicans who vote in the center, left or right, have a name: RINO (Republican in name only), a nickname many have used on McCain and Powell through the years.

I’ll answer the rest of your inquires in another post.

Just for fun:
www.images.newsmax.com/misc/2008_Election_Map.jpg

The election by US County. Red is Republican; Blue is Democratic.

Verity

Speaking of lying, here is the source of the lies about Sarah Palin not knowing that Africa is a continent and not knowing what NAFTA is and the stream of other garbage that the left sucked up with such foolish, not to say lunatic, glee. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/arts/television/13hoax.html?_r=1&emc=eta1&oref=slogin

Jill

Phil: You could include your interpretation of his appointment of a Jewish right hand man when he is "known" to be an Islamist -sorry but you can expect no help from verity here as she claims not to read what I write :) -if you believe that you will believe elephants fly -oh just seen one !

Jill: So many make the mistake of thinking that people are joined at the head with their ethnic group or religion. Pelosi is a good example. She’s a Catholic, and three times this year the Bishops have renounced her statements on when life begins as incompatible with Catholic Doctrine, and they threatened to withhold communion from her. If some Jewish people are skeptical of Obama it is because he made two polar announcements during the election within twenty four hours of each other about Jerusalem.

Phil: Is it indeed a trick and have I been wrong all along-? it is a strange departure from the dire warnings we have been getting from the right for so long -I do remember that we had here in the UK a government of all parties during the second world war when we needed the nation to pull together to defeat hitler.-Helpful what one can remember when age creeps up on us

Jill: I hope you are right for my grandchildren’s sake. I see nothing of comfort so far; therefore, I don’t share your optimism that a person who spent his entire life promoting Marxist policies, ran on Marxist platform, and was supported by the most radical and violent left elements of American society will suddenly govern from the center. What happened in your country after the war was more tragic than the war. It is comparable to this past election in the US. Uniformity of thought and solitary party rule are the marks of totalitarianism. You know it is true because you are one of the heroes from the “Greatest Generation.”

Phil: I am not setting you an exam here but it would be more interesting to get this information than some of the posts you have been making -if it goes well we could set up our own magazine and I will appoint you the editor -happy days

Jill: It’s a deal! What will we call it? I’m thinking “News You Can Use from the American Wing of the Republican Party”…we probably need to brainstorm some more.

Jill

Hayward writes: The lobster story is just that. It is based on this Canadian self deprecatory story.
A Maritime fisherman is carrying a pail of lobsters up from the wharf. Another fisherman warns him that the lobsters might escape because there's no lid on the pail. "Oh no," says the first fisherman. "These are Canadian lobsters, boys. As soon as one makes it to the top, the others will drag him down."
-------------------------
Jill writes: Hayward, so this is the "proper" New England story. We made a few improvements when the story went south. The only Canadians we see are on TV spouting anti-Americanism. Mari-time happens in Catholic churches, and our pails don’t have lids.
---------------------------
Hayward writes: Jill, are there any lobster ethology studies on this behaviour, any papers published ? I have had a quick hunt but no luck so far.
-------------------------
Jill writes: Hayward, I have no idea. It's a cute little story old people tell young people when they want them to develop good character. The context is Sunday School or football practice. The theme is a generous attitude. I really don't know what happens if you put a bunch of lobsters in a pail. They probably don't like it. Tell us if you find anything :)

Hayward

Jill,
The only Canadians we see are on TV spouting anti-Americanism.
You cannot say that about Prime Minister Stephen Harper nor Mark Steyn who was an avid backer of the Iraq Fiasco. Then there is David Frum, Neocon and speech writer for Dubya, he who supposedly coined the “Axiis of Evil “phrase
I presumed you knew of the Canadian Maritime Provinces, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island
Regards

Conservative Cabbie

Hayward

On the poll, good spot although I haven't verified it, I'm sure yoy're right. However, that doesn't necessarily mean the poll is wrong. Do you really believe America has gone all liberal all of a sudden? I don't, the poll has the ring of truth.

On Wolves and melting glaciers. You should be a big fan of Sarah Palin if you're worried about the glaciers melting. By killing wolves and enabling Alaskans to hunt Caribou and Moose, they're sourcing their winter meat locally rather than importing it from the lower 48 saving all those carbon whatsits. She is an earth mother.

Conservative Cabbie

Hayward

Do you know who else supported Hitler and for that matter Mussolini. It was progressives in the USA and the UK, socialists too for that matter, think HG Wells.

The reason Hitler went after the trade unions and the communist was not because he was diametrically opposed to them, it was because they were competing for the same space in the political spectrum. You've been good enough to recommend some books to me, now it's my turn, try Liberal Facism by Joshua Goldberg. I don't agree with all his conclusions, basically he tries to make out that every Democratic President in the 20th century was a friendly facist which it seems to me is going a bit far. However the origins of progressivism (the antecedent of liberalism) and the 60's protest movement (Weather Underground and Black Panthers) were definately facistic in nature.

Conservative Cabbie

Phil

It's been a while. Ref your RINO's. That a small number of moderate Republicans are prepared to eschew their Republican colleagues for the sake of political advancement is hardly a surprise, politicians the world over are hardly known for their integrity. I'm afraid that RINO support for Obama is proof that he is a moderate doesn't wash. Obama believes that redistributing wealth is right, not because it is necessarily good for the economy, but because it is FAIR. That's a pretty far left idealogical position which is why I continue to be amazed when those on the right support Obama, it is impossible to be on the right and believe that redistributing wealth is fair, it's like turkeys voting for christmas. As for Rahm Emanuel, yes, appointing a Jewish CoS was a good move when it comes to placating the pro-Israeli lobby. However, Obama campaigned as a post-partisan candidate. Emanuel doesn't come more partisan so from that perspective, not such a good move. How many more of his campaign promises were just words he has no intention of living up to?

Glad to see you and Jill are edging towards an accomodation. I have to say, I've found many of her posts to be very interesting.

Conservative Cabbie

Verity

I saw that about the hoax too. We are excoriated by the left for believing stories about Obama, stories that are supported by evidence. However, the left continue to lap up any scandal on Sarah Palin without any recourse to aforesaid evidence. Evidence has never been particularly important to the left (think Michael Moore, Andrew Sullivan), but you would think that considering their self-perceived intellectual superiority, they'd have moved beyond rumour, innuendo and supposition. Almost every rumour about Sarah Palin perpetrated by the left has been debunked and yet here we are again, a rumour feeds into their prejudice, and like Andrew Sullivan's little lap dogs, they salivate all over it.

Ronnie

I've been skimmming back over this great winding river of a thread and it struck me that the most interesting post was the one by Jill on Joseph Farah. I've been thinking about it since she posted it.

Now, its obvious that I disagree with much of what real American conservatives have been saying here but, so what. Like you guys care what I think and why should you?

More importantly for me, is that I now know better where you are coming from and the Farah quote was very interesting from that perspective.

Most Europeans forget or never new how the USA came into being and what kind of people made it happen. It helps to be reminded.

And while the US is seen, through TV and movies, as a huge and diverse country, leading the world in technology and social innovation, 'real' conservatism is not understood at all and therefore not respected.

Through the participation of our American friends on these threads, throughout the Presidential election, I feel understand American conservatism better than I did and I just want to thank you all for that.

Conservative Cabbie

Ronnie

Excellent post.

America is my fascination and through copious reading, I feel I have some insight into the exceptionalism of the US ,particularly it's conservative values. That's not meant to be a partisan point, a large number of Democrats are conservative too.

It's not a perfect country by any means, they claim to be be the beacon of democracy and yet can't run elections properly, but they do have so much to legitimately crow about.

Conservative Cabbie

William Ayers has given an interview to the Chicago Sun Times, the headline of which is that he refers to his relationship with Obama as being "family friends". That doesn't really tie in with Obama saying that he was just someone from the neighbourhood.

To be honest though, that's in the past. What I'm more interested in is the fact that Ayers is taking advantage of his recent notoriety to re-release his book just like a good capitalist, sorry marxist should.

Conservative Cabbie

Re Ayers and his using his notoriety to sell his book

As Michelle Malkin, the mistress of the acerbic comment puts it "God damn America, Cha-ching!"

Ronnie

Cabbie, I particularly like the Primaries and a close study of them shines a light on the real USA, for a brief period at least. Then you get the idea that every state, every county has its own political system.

I'm sorry you mentioned 'exceptionalism' though. Every country is exceptional. For me, when applied to foreign policy exceptionalism is simply another word for arrogant hypocrisy, usually ending in retreat and recrimination.

phil

Jill many thanks for taking so much trouble to respond -I felt all along that once outside the influence of the fragrant one and her sycophant you would write a lot of sense -some of course I do not agree with but that is the essence of debate and education .I worry too about SEN O making two different speeches the first to AIPAC and subsequently saying something rather different ,in fact that was what has given me most cause for concern -not the fact that he gave comfort to the side I am in disagreement with ,as I think we can all be too biased to see reason,but the fact that he tried it seems to be all things too all people .My overall judgement is that he is what the world needs now (Burt Bacharach :) and we will have to await with baited breath to find out who was right .

As for what you and cabbie think about RINOS ,time will tell but I must say we need to give this team a chance to exert goodwill and governance,in fact we have little choice ,they have massive majorities,and for sure we need a change from what we have been doing .

I wish this part were private but obviously it cannot be ,so I will tell you if you are wondering ,why I am so opposed to the fragrant one (v) and her sycophant-they never offer a better way or a solution ,only insults to all and sundry and self praise-I refer to it as narcissistic -it does none of us any good and in my opinion just debases the whole purpose of these threads .This is a place that we are privileged to exchange views that are very varied and most do so in a polite if sometimes humorous way -mostly I conform to that but as you may have seen I do expose the ignorance of some posters who serve no useful purpose except to try to humiliate others-I mostly tend to agree with Melanie but on occasion have to say no-I am sure she would not want it otherwise .

Our magazine "thinking outside the box" ??? :)

phil

Cabbie you are a star exactly what I believe this blog is all about .we agree on some things and disagree with a smile on others ,you will see that I have responded to Jill in that manner and said why I think as I do(see above),we will just have to wait and see who is correct here .hopefully for us all it needs to be me.
I share your admiration for America in fact I very nearly married a fantastic girl from long island ,luckily for her logistics proved too difficult for us:) and I didn't like her Cadillac -I remember once going to a lovely Jewish deli and after lunch I found I had forgotten my wallet ,she was cool about it ,but the elderly lady at the next table looked at her pointedly and tut tutted and shook her head knowingly just like Joan Rivers .maybe that ruined it for me especially when I found a visa card and the cashier told me "we only take quality cards here mac""-ah well.

Verity

What Conservative Cabbie 8:11 said.

Conservative Cabbie 8:27 – “Almost every rumour about Sarah Palin perpetrated by the left has been debunked and yet here we are again, a rumour feeds into their prejudice, and like Andrew Sullivan's little lap dogs, they salivate all over it.” Not just “debunked”, as in silly rumours, but proven to be deliberate lies in a planned – if inept, because they’re always found out” – programme of the destruction of a dangerous foe. In this case, Governor Palin. What gay marriage obsessive Andrew Sullivan has to say about anything isn’t interesting. (Gay marriage, gay marriage, gay marriage.)

Now, William Ayers, who was just someone from the neighbourhood, is going on ‘Good Morning, America’. Being “just someone from the neighbourhood” seems to be an odd qualification for getting invited onto a national TV couch. Oh, wait a minute ….. If you and your wife/girlfriend murdered 13 people and attempted to murder many more, and were on the FBI's ‘Most Wanted’ list, and then became close friends with, and mentors of, the next president of the United States, that might justify national TV. Now the truth can’t hurt Obama’s chances. He’s in.

Tom Cat

Source and sources, Frank Gaffney's 'lie', you say 'relates to his claim that what is called “Islamic Finance” is “better known” as “Shariah-Compliant Finance (SFC)”'.

To people who know what they are talking about it is. The principles that operate around that form of finance must accord with sharia law.

"It does not conform to my own experience." But you're not an authority on anything, so what's that got to do with it? The most you can manage is to bleat on about the number of Google hits.

"Islamic Finance and Islamic Banking score many more hits." Of course they score lots of 'hits', because the banks who sell these products don't want their websites don't use the word 'sharia'. Just because banks use smokescreen language, it isn't going to stop people who know what they're talking about from referring to it as sharia finance. The world of scholarly knowledge doesn't just alter itself because of the number of Google hits on something.

'Six people have so far posted comments criticising what I wrote.' Yes, each and every one of them highlighting your astonishing ignorance (not difficult really).

'One of them has admitted to the contrary that Islamic Finance is the more common expression.' No, none of them has.

From all that I can see, one of them has merely be kind enough to you to explain the false logic of basing 'research' [if it can be called that] on the number of Google hits you find on something:

'Of course you will get more Google hits on ‘Islamic finance’ because those who are trying to spread this form of finance are doing so disingenuously by hiding it under this label. In Islam, such underhand tactics are known as taqqya. Perhaps that’s something else you don’t understand.'

phil

I suggest that anyone who is really interested in Bill Ayers,rather than the fragrant ones (V)attempt to besmirch Sen Obama by connection,read the Wikipedia entry and decide for themselves whether this was indeed a wicked man and in fact if he still is .I MAKE NO EXCUSE FOR HIM ,but my take on him is that he was a young man making what he thought was a moral stand against war and bigotry -he like many young people got it wrong and is now attempting to atone for what he did -Ayers is currently a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, College of Education. His interests include teaching for social justice, urban educational reform, narrative and interpretive research, children in trouble with the law, and related issues.In 1997 Chicago awarded him its Citizen of the Year award for his work on the project,It seems to me that many intelligent folk do not agree with the fragrant ones opinions -read for yourself its is very interestin to see the journey this man has been on .
oh and. "Oh, wait a minute ….. If you and your wife/girlfriend murdered 13 people and attempted to murder many more"" Maybe the fragrant one will tell us who these thirteen were- there is no reference that I can find ! DOES ANYONE REALLY THINK THAT A MAN ACCUSED OF SUCH CRIMES WOULD BE IN THE POSITION HE IS NOW ?

Ronnie

Phil, I always remember a scene in 'Morse' where our world-weary hero turns to Lewis and says,'Thinking, Lewis, whether in or out of the box, is at a premium round here'.

If Marco Polo had simply referred to Morse when I asked him about 'Englishness' I would immediately have understood what he was on about.

Jill

re: America gone liberal

Absolutely not; Democrats move to the center from the left during campaigns; Democrats voted against same sex marriage propositions in California and two other O-states.

Conservative Dems did not do their homework on the candidates, and the MSM did not help. They cover elections as horse races between the Red Team and the Blue. They pretend to be journalists instead of editorialists. They suppress information; they posture and reframe events. A poll of journalists shows most are Democrats. It is obvious they are very liberal. The MSM is out of touch with Americans.

Check out Pew research. They have studied the American population for years. Conservative values remain constant. One question they ask is about political labels. They ask if you call yourself liberal or conservative, with degrees of each. Only 20% call themselves liberal. The rest identify themselves as conservative, with "moderate" conservative having the largest percentage. "Very" conservative is larger than "very" liberal.(This is from my memory last summer.)

re: layers of government

The link offers an election map by county:

www.images.newsmax.com/misc/2008_Election_Map.jpg

Red is Republican; Blue is Democratic.

Red covers most of the map. It shows counties or local governments have not "gone Marxist." Layers are national, state, and local. Local is county or parish, city or town, communities (church, business, neighborhoods), and at the root of it all--family, the first and most lasting government on earth. The Democrats want to control every layer; but there is an infrastructure below them who will resist the laws 535 people in Congress pass for 300 million people. Switching us from free market, free thought, self-governing... to socialism and people management will not be a cake walk.

We are making our stand for freedom at the state level among governors, state legislators, and courts.

re: "Big" Business

We'll step aside the fact that big is only big because they serve the needs of the masses instead of produce goods for the narrow markets, including upper 5%.

The wealthy elites survive under any form of government and in any economic system. They align themselves with the political power, whoever it may be. That's why you had oil companies giving campaign contributions to both McCain and Obama, with Obama gaining the most from them.

What happened in Germany is the textbook example of business aligning with whosoever.

Small business (95% of US business providing 45% of US jobs) loses under tyranny. They go out of business, and the big ones take their place.

Jill

correction: Democrats voted against same sex marriage IN propositions in California and two other O-states.

phil

Jill at 2.41that post is really disturbing because I could not understand one bit of it ! what were you trying to say?it truly sounded like something out of George Orwell and the world is not as complicated as that -Most folk are happy with a full belly and their children safe ,they do not ponder politics ,nor read Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky-they have no clue as to whether they are part liberal ,fully democratic or conservative . Where they are going for holidays ,not who they are going to war with fills their minds ,mine too I suppose ,so why are you going so deep into a subject that bears no consequence to our lives .
YOU NOTE democrats voted against same sex marriage ,first of all how do you know ,or did you mean representatives .I happen to believe that a child deserves a father and a mother especially when the child is mocked in the playground and scarred for life -does that make me a monster ? I also believe that the more gifted in life owe a duty to the less able in society,does that make me a Marxist ?its very confusing because I have always voted conservative .My beliefs are based on compassion and caring,so tell me what I am (careful).
I came out of your post with my head reeling and feeling like I had had a serious senior moment -please use your undoubted talents in a clearer way than this ,and do tell me what is it you do -I am intrigued .

phil

Ronnie I think Marco Polo has gone on his travels ,not in a red JAG I suppose ,Many here have no idea what being an Englishman means -I have a good friend who landed fighter bombers on the Ark Royal ,now he is an Englishman :)

Jill

OBAMA WATCH CENTRAL
Emanuel volunteers Americans to do 'a lot'

'If you're worried about having to do 50 jumping jacks the answer is yes'

Posted: November 13, 2008
1:00 am Eastern
By Bob Unruh
© 2008 WorldNetDaily

A video of a 2006 interview with now-Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel for president-elect Barack Obama reveals plans for mandatory induction for all young adults into a civilian "force."

"If you're worried about, are you going to have to do 50 jumping jacks, the answer is yes," Emanuel told the interviewer, a reporter who was podcasting for the New York Daily News at the time.

WND reported last weekend when the official website for Obama, Change.gov, announced he would "require" all middle school through college students to participate in community service programs.

However, after a flurry of blogs protested children being drafted into Obama's proposed youth corps, officials softened the website's wording.

Originally, under the tab "America Serves," Change.gov read, "President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in under served schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps.

"Obama will call on citizens [Read O-Voters] of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year," the site announced.

WND previously reported on a video of a marching squad of Obama youth and Obama's "civilian national security force," which he said in July would be just as powerful and well-funded as the U.S. military.

Now comes the Emanuel video, which has been embedded here:

[visit worldnetdaily.com]

In the interview, Emanuel was questioned whether participants in the proposed force would live in barracks.

"Somewhere between the age of 18 to 25 you will do three months of training. You can do it at some point in your college time," he said. "There can be nothing wrong with all Americans having a joint, similar experience of what we call civil defense training or civil service."

Emanuel said the planned requiring service "will give people a sense of what it means to be an American."

He said, of course, the plan at that point was flexible.

"We propose three months [but] at the end of the day [if] someone says it should be four … I'm not going sit here and hold up [plans]," Emanuel said.

When the reporter questioned the commitment, Emanuel responded, "Guess what. We have a lot more challenges. We are going to need a lot to do it. If you're worried about are you going to have to do 50 jumping jacks the answer is yes."

He chuckled at the reporters concerns.

"Rather than figure out if whether you take a train ride or a barrack. … Think of it this way, it will be a common experience.

"There will be a body of citizens who are ready, capable and trained," he said.

But the plan, especially its demand that Americans participate in a domestic "force," has been raising questions.

The blogger Gateway Pundit called Obama's plan the "creation of his Marxist youth corps," and DBKP commented, "'Choosing' to serve should be approved by parents – not required by the government. No amount of good intentions can sugar-coat words like 'mandatory,' 'compulsory' or 'required.'"

Emanuel uses his book, "The Plan: Big Ideas for America," to specify that he would propose, for all Americans ages 18 to 25, that they "serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service."

Obama, meanwhile, also has yet to clarify what he meant during his July "Call to Service" speech in Colorado Springs in which he insisted the U.S. "cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set" and needs a "civilian national security force."

A video of his comments is here:

[visit worldnetdaily.com]

Joseph Farah, founder and editor of WND, used his daily column first to raise the issue and then to elevate it with a call to all reporters to start asking questions about it.

"If we're going to create some kind of national police force as big, powerful and well-funded as our combined U.S. military forces, isn't this rather a big deal?" Farah wrote. "I thought Democrats generally believed the U.S. spent too much on the military. How is it possible their candidate is seeking to create some kind of massive but secret national police force that will be even bigger than the Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force put together?

"Is Obama serious about creating some kind of domestic security force bigger and more expensive than that? If not, why did he say it? What did he mean?" Farah wrote.

The Obama campaign has declined to respond to WND questions on the issue.

But Farah's call generated intense Internet discussions.

The Blue Collar Muse blog commented, "The questions are legion and the implications of such an organization are staggering! What would it do? According to the title, it's a civilian force so how would it go about discharging 'national security' issues? What are the Constitutional implications for such a group? How is this to be paid. … The statement was made in the context of youth service. Is this an organization for just the youth or are adults going to participate? How does one get away from the specter of other such 'youth' organizations from Nazi Germany and the former Soviet Union when talking about it?"

Jill

World Net Daily Poll

How does Obama's Civilian National Security Force grab you? (3899 votes)

Rahm Emanuel and Barack Obama scare me 23% (915)

Where do I get my brown shirt? 17% (674)

Hell no, I won't go! 15% (604)

First, they came for the young people and I said nothing ... 15% (594)

Thank you, WND, for blowing the whistle on this story long ago 11% (439)

I don't know how you have mandatory voluntary service 9% (348)

This is ACORN on steroids 4% (150)

It sounds a lot like a draft 1% (58)

Other 1% (34)

How does he intend to sell the idea of a low- or no-wage work force doing jobs his union supporters would like to be paid to do? 1% (31)

I guess this is what Obama meant when he said he would bring Americans together 1% (21)

It's an admirable plan for instilling a sense of duty in young people 0% (15)

As JFK said, "Ask not what your country can do for you ..." 0% (8)

A great idea! It's about time young people give back to their country 0% (5)

We've asked our young people to serve the cause of war - now we're asking them to serve the cause of peace 0% (3)

I like it as long as the Democrats are in charge 0% (0)

With the many hurdles the nation faces, it's the only solution to addressing many of our problems 0% (0)

Jill

I spoke on several points others brought up without addressing names.

I posted information on Proposition 8 and the demographics of it (above). Currently, the far left is intimidating and threatening black and hispanic voters who voted to preserve the definition of marriage as between a man and a woman. Rosanne Barr, a Hollywood Obamaite on steroids, said blacks are as “ignorant and bigoted” as people who voted for McCain/Palin. Leftist bloggers are calling blacks the “n” word. The left has targeted churches, as well, invading one church service last Sunday. They dressed to blend in with the congregants. After the opening prayer, they shouted profanities, threw condoms, and tongue-kissed on the altar. In another state, they burned a book of Mormon on the front steps of a Mormon church. The Democratic Party officials lectured the voters for their unfortunate “mistake” in voting to preserve marriage. Proposition 8 in California adds language to the state Constitution that defines marriage between a man and woman. Voters are free to do it. Two other states had similar propositions to preserve marriage that voters supported. Pelosi is not happy with the voters. She is working to ‘help voters make a better choice next time.’
Unfortunately, some people are as infantile as you describe, being happy with a fully belly and unaware of their surroundings. It’s a wonder they have drivers license. You wrote: “so why are you going so deep into a subject that bears no consequence to our lives.” Your statement blows my mind. If we all took that attitude, we’d be perfect sheep. Perhaps, you should just skip my posts.

FYI: I found a place to blog :)

Lisa B

Ronnie says: ‘How much middle eastern capital do you think has been invested in the United States, particularly Saudi money, over the last 20 years or more?’

Yes there has been capital invested but not on the scale the US Treasury is now countenancing. It has been talking to several countries so it’s clearly not a fisful of dollars we’re talking here.

‘How did you feel when US strategic port assets were almost bought by investors from the UAE recently?’

People were appalled at this and that was why it was blocked. Thank goodness. If that wasn’t waved through, why should these loans be?

‘Why did the issue of Islamic finance not come up then?’

There was an outcry over all of the implications of any such a deal because of its magnitude and the security issues around it.

Ronnie, you even know how disingenuous you are because you write: ‘were almost bought’. And why were they not bought? Because of public outrage over the security considerations. ‘Almost bought’ indeed. As if no-one raised a peep over the effects of a Middle Eastern enterprise owning something like that.

‘It comes up now because stock exchanges are developing in a number of Arab countries and are attracting international investment inward. Investors therefore need to understand the regulatory framework within which these new markets operate, including Islamic financial structures.’

The use of private money is separate from the issue of a loan with the US Treasury. It comes up now because huge loans to the US Treasury would have to be paid back by US taxpayers. That is why people are so outraged. US voters would pay tax dollars, whether they liked it or not (we can at least boycott private companies), that could end up later on down the line being recycled for terrorist activity.

We already have examples of sharia-compliant money being laundered for terrorist activity in the case of Bank Al-Taqwa and Akida Bank (as has been set out above by another poster):
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=9876d480-1e6c-46ec-aa3c-851a46fbf9ff

So Ronnie asks us to set aside a proven track record of money being siphoned off for terrorist activity to grow sharia finance to who knows what size in the US.

‘Maybe it is sinsiter, but I doubt it.’

‘Maybe’? What sort of statement is that in relation to possible funding for terrorism?

If there is an ounce of doubt it shouldn’t happen.

Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, President of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy isn’t in any doubt about the dangers of sharia compliant finance. He says:

"Make no mistake, Sharia-Compliant Finance is neither about religion nor about God. It is about Islamist control and collectivization of Muslims against the West and free markets. SCF systems are nothing more than a ruse to give transnational Islamist movements and their controlling Muslim theocrats an economic power base. Attempts to appease requests by Islamists to provide so-called SCF are misguided. SCF provides sanction of a dangerous separatist economic system which incubates Islamist ideology among Muslims and keeps them apart from the general population. Islamist theocrats exploit Western deference to religious freedom in order to lay the foundations of a system which feigns religion in order to control the economic decisions of Muslims and non-Muslims alike. SCF allows governments and banks to empower Islamist theocrats who really only want to control Muslim economics rather than actually stimulate the open economic freedom of Muslims. This is the difference between theocracy and liberty, instead of lay citizens controlling their own economic transactions, the invisible hand becomes the hand of the Islamist cleric.”

http://anti-jihad.org/blog/2008/11/coalition-conference/

Jill

another world net winner:

WASHINGTON – Just when liberals thought it was safe to start identifying themselves as such, an acclaimed, veteran psychiatrist is making the case that the ideology motivating them is actually a mental disorder.

"Based on strikingly irrational beliefs and emotions, modern liberals relentlessly undermine the most important principles on which our freedoms were founded," says Dr. Lyle Rossiter, author of the new book, "The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness." "Like spoiled, angry children, they rebel against the normal responsibilities of adulthood and demand that a parental government meet their needs from cradle to grave."

While political activists on the other side of the spectrum have made similar observations, Rossiter boasts professional credentials and a life virtually free of activism and links to "the vast right-wing conspiracy."

For more than 35 years he has diagnosed and treated more than 1,500 patients as a board-certified clinical psychiatrist and examined more than 2,700 civil and criminal cases as a board-certified forensic psychiatrist. He received his medical and psychiatric training at the University of Chicago.

Rossiter says the kind of liberalism being displayed by both Barack Obama and his Democratic primary opponent Hillary Clinton can only be understood as a psychological disorder.

"A social scientist who understands human nature will not dismiss the vital roles of free choice, voluntary cooperation and moral integrity – as liberals do," he says. "A political leader who understands human nature will not ignore individual differences in talent, drive, personal appeal and work ethic, and then try to impose economic and social equality on the population – as liberals do. And a legislator who understands human nature will not create an environment of rules which over-regulates and over-taxes the nation's citizens, corrupts their character and reduces them to wards of the state – as liberals do."

Dr. Rossiter says the liberal agenda preys on weakness and feelings of inferiority in the population by:

creating and reinforcing perceptions of victimization;

satisfying infantile claims to entitlement, indulgence and compensation;

augmenting primitive feelings of envy;

rejecting the sovereignty of the individual, subordinating him to the will of the government.

"The roots of liberalism – and its associated madness – can be clearly identified by understanding how children develop from infancy to adulthood and how distorted development produces the irrational beliefs of the liberal mind," he says. "When the modern liberal mind whines about imaginary victims, rages against imaginary villains and seeks above all else to run the lives of persons competent to run their own lives, the neurosis of the liberal mind becomes painfully obvious."

Jill

Priest: No communion for Obama supporters

AP News--COLUMBIA, S.C. - A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."

The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.

"Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote...

end AP NEWS
----------------------------
Psalm 40:9
I proclaim righteousness in the great assembly; I do not seal my lips, as you know, O LORD.

Jill

Phil, my post dated "November 14th, 2008 11:54pm" is addressed to you.

Jill

For the USA:

Psalm 85

12 The LORD will indeed give what is good,
and our land will yield its harvest.

13 Righteousness goes before him
and prepares the way for his steps.

Verity

The prolix American Jill of a thousand closely argued posts has found a new home elsewhere. Apparently.

In the post immediately following hers above, however, Lisa B, with her style of closely argued, frantic writing rings a bell.

And Sue thinks one of Britain's best-known journalists is "a gem".

Jes' sayin' is awl.

Jill

Phil,

You can rejoice. I'll be posting at my new blog. In fact, one wasn't enough. There are two: "From the Wilderness" and "Christian Faith Channel" at blogspot. They are both political. The first is for literature and the second for prayer and prayer in action. You are welcome to join us.

The Dems don't have a chance now. They better watch out.

The links don't match the names...long story, but here they are:

abackyard.blogspot.com (named in gentler days)

and

prayerchannel.blogspot.com

Anybody is welcome to visit.

Ronnie

Lisa B, you seem confused. Some of the points you make agree with mine, if somewhat disagreeably.

For example, I said that the US strategic port assets were 'almost bought'. I said that because they were almost bought, a simple statement of fact. If you want to tell us, as you do, why they weren't bought - great. I didn't mention it, so what? That wasn't my point.

I could mention that the proposed sale was heavily sponsored by a Republican administration, which confuses me, but I won't.

My point was actually the danger of allowing so much Arab (Islamic) capital into the country over such a long period of time.

phil

Jill thanks for the offer but I am sure you will understand if I refrain from joining you ,I only have 24 hours in a day and you take more than 30.not only that I don't understand a word that you say ,and to be honest I wonder if you do. I noted your complaints about lefty,s (of which I am not one) abusing black people ,but saw no comment on the KKk,s abuse at which point I gave up with you

HOPEFULLY OUR EARLIER POSTERS WILL FIND OUT YOU HAVE GONE ELSEWHERE AND ARE NOW LEAVING SOME SPACE FOR THEM .For the first time ever I am in accord with verity and her description of prolix .long may it continue but I am not holding my breath .

I have also actually got to the point where I am missing Anne and I never thought that day would arrive

Adam ,Nick ,Herbert,Harvey (the real one) et al please come back ,there will be space for real debate once more .

phil

Verity ,I know you don't read my posts but your eye will catch this one. you write -
"The prolix American Jill of a thousand closely argued posts has found a new home elsewhere. Apparently".
How did you know 4 minutes before her revelation that she was leaving us ?it is possibly hidden amongst her thousands of words above but the pain from my scrolling figure has forced me to discontinue my search -I am intrigued .

Verity

The Phil-Verity Accord is formally at an end.

Phil wrote - and we pray that Jill does not see it and is motivated to reply - "I noted your complaints about lefty,s (of which I am not one) abusing black people ,but saw no comment on the KKk,s...".

The British have to get one fact firmly nailed into their brains before anyone writes one more word about the KKK. It was a lefty organisation. It was Southern Democrats who formed and joined the KKK.

It was Republicans who outlawed it and prosecuted those who persisted with it.

phil

JILL ONCE AGAIN I HAVE TRIED TO UNDERSTAND YOUR POSTS -I usually pride myself in believing that I understand people but I fear you lose me -you fail to address the points I raise and I have tried to coax you by flattery but nothing works and I have come to the conclusion sadly that you are insane .You have now taken up unashamedly copying all and sundry to insult the genuine American people who have elected a government -.YOU SUGGEST I AVOID YOUR POSTS -I must tell you that is very difficult as you take up more space than a truck.and nearly all the posts start with Jill writes and then off we go for a trip into gaga land -is there any way to stop you before many of us become as daft as you ?

IN THE THIRD OF YOUR LONG AND RAMBLING"SPEECHES" -- YOU SAY ---

" I spoke on several points others brought up without addressing names." !!!!!!!! who on earth do you think you are -I get a picture in my head of some self appointed crazed educator -do you think you are writing for a bunch of uneducated fools ? you must have started your writing "career"somewhere else ,did they ban you ?and you now have descended on us -most people that I have recognised here for more than a year have disappeared since you decided to bestow the benefits of your cut outs upon us -every day we get you by the yard ,most of it ridiculous right wing nonsense ,I think I could paper my lounge with your posts were I to print them I know I cannot stop you but could I suggest you go and start your magazine NOW ,that will keep you busy and possibly avoid you being taken away by men in funny coats -May God help the USA if people like you ever get power.
Cabbie I will send you a hundred dollars ,please take her somewhere far .

This is somewhat out of order timewise as Pete thought my original was a little too much to the point and I have poured a little yoghurt over it :)

Jill

Verity and Dr. Phil,

I'm not leaving. I'm a Melanie fan. I meant that I found a place for articles and a starting place to organize political action for a stand for freedom. Melanie, her articles, and this thread inspired and helped launch me in the right direction. Sorry that you feel imposed on. It was either write and share, or climb into bed and refuse to get out. People respond differently to their country being taken over by Marxists. I choose to be a freedom fighter. Naturally, as a writer, I responded to the tragedy through writing it out and sharing news. I apologize for the articles, not for my posts that I wrote. It won't happen again.

I have links at the blogs to a prayer discussion board called hecares4u.com. The owner gave me a mini-board within the discussion board :) I hope my friends here will be happy for me, and they are welcome to join us. My nick at the prayer discussion board is "beloved." My friends can contact me at either blog, too.

phil

Jill says "People respond differently to their country being taken over by Marxists" ------yes and so would I but yours has not and your self elevation to that of a freedom fighter is plainly ridiculous .I doubt that anyone connected to this magazine would think of it as a starting place for political action pursuing freedom -we are free here and proud of how our country achieved it -I suggest you try to find an American site for your strange ideas ,most of us here are fed up with it -enjoy your prayers that is a far better thing for you to do .Then I can give our other posters a rest from my own attempts to deter you ,I assure everyone I prefer playing golf to this nonsense

Verity

Aaargghhh! OK, Phil. The peace treaty's back on. (But I'm not going to scroll back to find out the clue I picked up that allowed me to deduce, four minutes before the announcement, that Jill was going elsewhere. Which she now says she isn't, anyway.)

Lisa B

Ronnie says: ‘Lisa B, you seem confused.’

Ronnie continues: ‘For example, I said that the US strategic port assets were 'almost bought'. I said that because they were almost bought, a simple statement of fact. If you want to tell us, as you do, why they weren't bought - great. I didn't mention it, so what? That wasn't my point.’

You did not make a simple statement of fact at all, Ronnie. You asked a question. Here it is:

‘How did you feel when US strategic port assets were almost bought by investors from the UAE recently?’

And you got an answer.

You follow through with this (another question, Ronnie, not a statement):

‘Why did the issue of Islamic finance not come up then?’

And you got an answer. So it wasn’t a simple statement of fact from you at all.

If you ask a question and don‘t get the answer you want to hear, that‘s just tough.

‘I could mention that the proposed sale was heavily sponsored by a Republican administration, which confuses me, but I won't.’

You say you won’t mention something and then you mention it. Seems like you’re the one who’s confused, Ronnie.

And so what if it was a Republican administration that proposed selling the ports. It’s a Republican administration that is trying to arrange these loans. Both proposals are objectionable.

‘My point was actually the danger of allowing so much Arab (Islamic) capital into the country over such a long period of time.’

That was one of your points, Ronnie.

One other of your points was to ask ‘Why did the issue of Islamic finance not come up then?’ in relation to those ports.

Harry

Obama is not a self-proclaimed Marxist.

Of course not.

But he has plenty of Marxist tendencies. Obama has called for a for a civilian force to take some of the national security burden off the military.

One senator has already picked up on the Marxist character of this suggestion:

“That's exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany and it's exactly what the Soviet Union did," Broun said. "When he's proposing to have a national security force that's answering to him, that is as strong as the U.S. military, he's showing me signs of being Marxist."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94CDDM80&show_article=1

Jill

Verity,

Here is the answer to your complaint about citizens the UK, as you said, that they will take no real action against usurpers of their power. I took your word for it, but now I see. There is no support among citizens for other citizens to engage in political action because "lobster mentality" rules. How could anybody read the current articles from Melanie and say like Phil, as long as our bellies are filled and we have vacation to look forward to, we're happy? Melanie's articles light a fire in the belly of every freedom lover. I hear Margaret Thatcher’s voice on conservative radio say, ‘the desire for freedom in every heart is divinely inspired.’ It's the last part "divinely inspired" that could be missing. Keep up the good fight.

See you around.

Verity

Good grief! This is how deranged this thread has become! I'm defending Phil! The end is nigh.

Phil, if he said what you think he said, which I don't remember because I don't read his posts, was being ironic.

Winston Churchill, or Oscar Wilde - anyway, someone who was heavyset - said that Britain and America are divided by a common language.

I think you may have misunderstood some subtext.

Hayward Maberley

Jill,
Still rattling that lobster pail still woith n o proof that it actally occurs apart from in a sunday school admonishment

Ronnie

Jill, that is not what Phil said.

He made the perfectly reasonable point that the vast majority of people are not politically active, motivated or even aware. Their lives are family, work and making some kind of progress in a challenging world. They are not 'infantile', just normal people living their lives.

If you don't understand that then you are going to become extremely bitter, as your exhortations to save the world fall on many deaf ears. You will also become islolated to some extent and feel yourself superior to those who aren't listening. This is not a healthy place to be.

Ronnie

Phil, I'm off to my new Blog now and I thought you should know.

Its called whendinosaursruledtheearth.net ,set up for me by the interns on my ward and concerning itself with a more peaceful time.

phil

happiness guys ,it looks like we have got our blog back -write something interesting we worked hard for it .:)

sauce and sources

Tom Cat

This is a waste of time. How does anyone argue with someone like you?

You angrily deny what I say. You insult me.

You then admit what I said is true and quote with approval someone else who admits what I said is true.

That takes something.

phil

Ronnie I hope you are joking(i know you are )I WOULD BE SERIOUSLY OUT NUMBERED

Jill

So far, people remind me of Washington Irving writing on the British and how snippy they are about anything Americans say or do. Nothing’s changed, but generations before us eventually figured out a way to at least be civil without budging on their stubborn opinions. This goes for liberal anti-American Canadians or New Englanders who keep lobsters trapped in pails with lids on, as well.

Verity, you might reconsider in the future inviting Americans to “share” what they are doing politically as an example for any disenfranchised British to take civic action (smiling). We'll take you up on it. I don’t remember exactly how you phrased it, but I heard an invitation to “share.” “Share” is code for “give your personal testimony” and "what's really on your mind--give us your heart." I'm willing to say with you that we have had a miscommunication, and we can start anew with a clean slate.

It's not totally up to Dr. Phil, but he could help. Every time I post he should not come up behind me and try to silence me. I won't be bullied into submission or silenced. I started two blogs and a discussion board. Check out the other threads at Melanie’s. I’ve hardly posted at them, yet there is Phil giving his two-cents in negative personal remarks about me every time I post. I agreed with people that I needed a blog and apologized for posting long news articles. Nothing more I can do. Beyond the articles, I really don’t know why I’ve attracted his attention. It must be my opinions. Millions in America share my opinions, but even if they didn’t, so what? I won’t apologize for my opinions. I don’t appreciate the name calling and snide remarks. There isn't much more I can do to make everybody happy. It's Phil's turn to make me happy with a promise for a clean slate for posting news articles, or just leave me alone. :) I’d rather have new friends.

Ronnie, there is not a superior bone in my body.

I have a research paper to do. See ya.

Ronnie

Ok, Lisa B, we are going nowhere with this at the moment.

You are excited by Islamic finance right now, I'm saying its been a problem, in a big way, long before now. Period.

Lets leave it at that.

Verity

Jill, you are clearly naïve and untravelled. Obviously, you have never been to Britain. Whatever Washington Irving wrote centuries ago, if people shoot down your loquacious arguments, that does not mean they are “snippy”. It means they don’t agree with you and think your reasoning is faulty and it has absolutely nothing to do with your nationality. Haven’t you noted how we treat one another?

You write: “Verity, you might reconsider in the future inviting Americans to “share” what they are doing politically as an example for any disenfranchised British to take civic action (smiling).”

I won’t be availing myself of your prissy advice (not smiling). I simply invited Americans to show us some of the ways they get results by complaining en masse – confident that others are doing so too. The British hold off complaining fearing that they may be the only one, and often they indeed are, because everyone else fears so too. That was my point: The vigour and the confidence of American public opinion.

No. I don’t think there was any “miscommunication”. I think you misunderstood.

Hayward Maberley

Ronnie,
I think I will make this my last post. If the chiliasts and their pawns are to take over the MP Blog, OK they can have it. For rationality will have definitely left the building.
Farewell Andre, John Birch, Fellow Traveller Ronnie, THX 1138. I may drop in again in the New Year to check if rationality has returned. Good luck Mr Cabbie.

Jill

I agree with Natty Bump-ho in "The Pioneers." There's too many rules around here with your "wasty ways" and "twisty laws... I give you my own bear-skin to sleep on, and the fat of a noble buck to satisfy the cravings of your hunger. Yes, yes--you thought it no sin then to kill a deer! And now will you shut me up in your dungeons to pay me for my kindness...Come, friend, let me pass; it's long sin' I've been used to such crowds, and I crave to be in the woods ag'in..."

Conservative Cabbie

Jill

My, you've attracted the wrath of Verity and Phil. that's a marriage made in hell, normally the two don't see eye to eye on anything although funnily enough I'm delighted to have good relations with both.

However, and this is a first, I'm going to disagree with them both. I've very much enjoyed your comments and feel you make a welcome and stubstantive contribution here. You are right, Britain is politically lethargic (particularly on the right side of things) and if we are ever going to solve our problems (see Melanie's Age of Barbarism article), then that is going to have to change.

I for one welcome all constructive views, how else do we form our own opinions? Keep the views coming although perhaps with just a touch more brevity :-).

phil

Cabbie I know you have a sense of fun as I do ,so you are probably enjoying the discomfort that Jill has brought to two protaganists who rarely see eye to eye (V AND I),but I must comment on your quote ---------------------"I for one welcome all constructive views, how else do we form our own opinions? " PHIL WRITES :)so do I but not when they are two feet long and obscure all other opinions by their length and boredom and particularly when there is only one message -she despises SEN OBAMA and all he stands for .These are not opinions they are accusations and not proven and certainly not in accord with the views of the American electorate -I also find the lady very strange and rarely understand what she is talking about in her rambling manner.So in the same spirit of goodwill you now have my reasons .

Conservative Cabbie

Phil

Understand your reasons, I just think that you and Hayward are making a mountain out of a molehill here. I felt the same about Israel for a while, we just weren't on the same dialectical wavelength, but we've now had a number of really interesting discourses.

The way I see it, there are two options, either engage on a constructive level and see where that gets you or just ignore. I don't want to appear too sanctimonious but repeatedly writing comments having a dig are just as unconstructive as you find Jill's posts (albeit shorter).

If you remember, our discourse started with you referrring to me derogatorily as Verity's cabbie. I had the same start with Ronnie, Israel and Fellow Traveller (I realise this was my doing, my early posts on this blog were fairly didactic).

I hope this post doesn't read as though I'm having a go, That's not intended, I just want to get back to the debate and I know from past experience that you're the person I can reason with.

phil

Jill and I WILL QUOTE YOU -"Beyond the articles, I really don’t know why I’ve attracted his attention.(me) It must be my opinions. Millions in America share my opinions, but even if they didn’t, so what? I won’t apologize for my opinions.

WELL JILL "SO WHAT" IS PRECISELY THE PROBLEM you take more space than anyone ever has on any of these threads with unutterably boring posts ,mostly putting down your elected president to be -if you had any sensitivity you would have realised by now that when Verity and myself agree about any subject it is serious business ,Forget any clean slate I am very bored with your repeated position and it seems Verity is too,and this from someone who is often known as polite Phil because I am too nice to people who I don't agree with -so you must know you may have gone too far.
-and please do not call me doctor again -I am not a doctor and you offend all those that are .You have also made me rude and I am angry with you for that .

Enjoy your research and I hope others will visit your fascinating blogs to see the results ,but I will not be coming -I might even invite Verity to lunch ,that would be much more fun .

phil

Cabbie you are right of course -you often are :)

I have actually chastised her for making me angry and forsaking my normal style ,but I have tried many ways to achieve brevity in her posts without success-I honestly feel I am dealing with a stubborn and naughty child -naughty in a nice way because she is obviously sincere -You and I disagree on some subjects ,but we discuss them in a grown up manner -We do not post cut outs many feet long !:)) -- hope you enjoyed my (very old )jokes in my post to SUE - maybe you will take Verity and I for lunch in your cab ,my best regards

phil

Hayward Maberley-i will be sad if you really leave ,even though you left me off your list:)) We do need people with sensible views here -so I suggest you do not give up .

Conservative Cabbie

Phil

I don't think I'd get the insurance to drive you and Verity around, far too combustible a fare.

BTW, I agree that cutting and pasting long articles is not the way to debate and I think if Jill wants to be a successful blogger, I hope she realises that what potential readers will want is to read what she has to say, not just an interesting article she's found online.

Thankyou for taking my comment in the way it was intended.

Jill

Conservative Cabbie: I think if Jill wants to be a successful blogger, I hope she realises that what potential readers will want is to read what she has to say, not just an interesting article she's found online.
--------------------------
Jill writes: Thanks Cabbie :) I learned through this experience that one of my buttons is “share.” If I ever hear the word again, I’ll type lightly—perhaps. In the final analysis, not everything I write should be published. You may not know what you asked for ;) You’ve given me an opportunity to think about the two blogs I’m running.

Yes, I want success. That will happen. Usually I write fiction, short character sketches, creative non-fiction, letters to the editor, and, of course, tons of essays and such for school. (I never write poetry...I can't stand most of it except, of course, Shakespeare's sonnets. Virginia Woolf would not like me.) Themes of my writing are business, politics, --isms, freedom, injustice from a conserv perspective, regular people…sort of a capitalist Raymond Carver, but with a sense of humor. I created a literary studies and writing blog for more than just my writings. I linked to two other conservative or libertarian writers who I know in person. We're political, and, finally, people on the right are "out," so we can be “in!” We are "alienated in a modern world" like so many communist writers in the past. yeeeee haaaaa!!! For example, the name of the blog changed from happy-family "backyardblog" to "from the wilderness." You can feeeeel the conservative desolation, right? Marxists practically owned "angst" throughout the twentieth century. No More!

We may as well have fun with our pain.

So far, I have posted at the blog only things published at other places as a way of collecting "clips" for when I look for job. It's a little sparse at the moment. ;) My editorial style pieces that have been published don’t fit at the literary blog. I've written letters to the editor and wrote something the BBC published. I’m still developing the blog and my career.

I have another blog for political action where I post news articles... it's about prayer for current events that relate to religious freedom in the USA with a short term goal of organizing those people into teams of state government watchers. This is where I post news articles found on the innernet. Some of my letters to the editor could fit there. If I follow your advice that's what I should do...plus consider writing more of those specifically for the blog whether it has been previously published elsewhere or not. You are right that I should imitate the success of people like Melanie. That's partly why I'm here. I'm absorbing success.

Thank you for your input: "In the multitude of counsel is wisdom." (Somewhere in the Bible...don't remember where.) Thank you for your interest. Thank you for listening as I considered your sound advice. Your sincere and friendly input is appreciated and useful.

One day we'll all meet in heaven :) I look forward to meeting you, then.

Have a peaceful day.

Verity

Jill, your yards of empty loquacity are do not rivet.

phil

Jill have you seen "the rain man-dustin hoffman and tom cruise great film "

Jill

Many people are concerned about the National Civilian Security Force and the characterization of the economy as the Great Depression. The times are scary if you value freedom.

phil

well cabbie you asked for and by golly you got it :):):)

Ronnie

I have to say, Verity, that's a great line.

Ronnie

Jill, I really would be extremely grateful if you could leave the great Raymond Carver out of this.

Jill

Conservative Cabbie
November 17th, 2008 9:18am
Jill

My, you've attracted the wrath of Verity and Phil. that's a marriage made in hell, normally the two don't see eye to eye on anything although funnily enough I'm delighted to have good relations with both.

However, and this is a first, I'm going to disagree with them both. I've very much enjoyed your comments and feel you make a welcome and stubstantive contribution here. You are right, Britain is politically lethargic (particularly on the right side of things) and if we are ever going to solve our problems (see Melanie's Age of Barbarism article), then that is going to have to change.

I for one welcome all constructive views, how else do we form our own opinions? Keep the views coming although perhaps with just a touch more brevity :-).
---------------------------

Yeah, "my"!

re: marriage made in hell

hahahahhaaa!!

Thank you Conserve Cabbie :) I'll try for brevity. How about 200 words per post for everybody? Thanks for sharing your opinion that disagrees with my negative fans. I'll disagree with everybody if you ever need it! (smiling) Say the word…

Well, this topic on the Election 2008 looks finished for now. Nobody wants to talk about it. See ya around.

Jonathan Matthews

Jill, in a sense the Democratic party has returned to Jefferson. Like the 3rd president, President Obama is also the father of African-American children.

Jill

Jonathan Matthews wrote on
November 18th, 2008 7:28am
Jill, in a sense the Democratic party has returned to Jefferson. Like the 3rd president, President Obama is also the father of African-American children.
------------------------
Jill writes: Interesting Jonathan. You may be referring to an earlier statement that I made: 'The Dems should return to their Jeffersonian roots.' Usually, leftist opponents of the US Constitution use Jefferson's personal history, or the fact that slavery was legal in some state laws, as an argument that the US Constitution should be cancelled. However, your statement intrigues me because slavery and socialism are pretty much the same thing. Jefferson owned slaves and was a Democrat.

The Dems should return to their roots in Jefferson minus the slavery. Nobody should have to clarify that, but, when dealing with the left, they will grasp any straw.

Jefferson is worthy of our study. He ended the foreign slave trade. His writings on blacks and slavery show deep conflict, and it could be argued he had more in common with southern Europeans who settled in South America. They quickly inter-mixed with other cultures. He did not hold the repulsion for other cultures so common among northern Europeans. I do not see people on the left agonizing over socialist policies and the negative effect of socialism on people.

Jefferson worked on plans for the slaves' freedom and published the plans. He worked to build a consensus for their freedom, but was ahead of his time. Leftists are behind the times because they promote a system that failed in the 20th century. Leftists look back, Jefferson looked forward.

All the founders did because without the American Revolution and the US Constitution, the blacks may not have been freed by individual states. The contrast of the Constitution to reality and state law that eventually led to abolition. The Articles of Confederation would not have carried the same weight or challenged state laws as boldly. The union of states was instrumental in black freedom.

I see a connection between the modern Democratic Party and slavery in the past. IMHO, they embrace socialism in the same spirit as they used to embrace slavery. But I don't see a connection in spirit with Jefferson, the great liberator and an architect of freedom. They kept the bad and tossed the good.

Today, I see a flip flop of preCivil War circumstances, with disunity and emergence of state over the federal power as the way of freedom and preserving the US Constitution. This time, Dems hold power in Washington while the Reps will have to make a stand for states rights. I’m not saying we’ll have a Civil War, just making a few comparisons.

Conservative Cabbie

Jill

Unfortunately, there's a big hole in my life now the elections finished, Melanie is back to more prosaic pieces that don't interest me as much as her great election pieces did. That's not a comment on her great writing, just the subjects that I find interesting.

I'm going to whisper this so that Phil doesn't hear, but I think you should be encouraged in your writing, ambition is a good thing. I hope you are successful.

Conservative Cabbie

One of my favourite political quotes is about Thomas Jefferson by JFK when speaking to a group of Nobel Prize winners at a Whitehouse banquet:

"I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered at the White House - with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."
John F. Kennedy

Verity

Jill - Jefferson did not end the slave trade. The Royal Navy did, when they were ordered to intercept ships on the high seas that were so transporting and send them back to wherever they came from.

Jefferson may have set the black people who were already in the US free, but the British were the ones who stopped the trade in humans. And this was done basically at the behest of the British public, thousands of whom walked for miles to sign – or put their X – on a petition to stop this foul trade. It was William Wilberforce who got the slave trade outlawed in Britain in 1807 - meaning, he got the transporting by Arab slavers of captured people being transported to America, outlawed. And our Navy enforced the law.

By the way, Jill, you're writing posts, not "articles".

Jill

Conserv Cabbie writes: Unfortunately, there's a big hole in my life now the elections finished, Melanie is back to more prosaic pieces that don't interest me as much as her great election pieces did. That's not a comment on her great writing, just the subjects that I find interesting.

I'm going to whisper this so that Phil doesn't hear, but I think you should be encouraged in your writing, ambition is a good thing. I hope you are successful.
---------------------------

:) thank you. I'll count you as a friendly fan. I volunteered for the school newspaper. ARGH! It's more work. That's really how you start, by offering your free labor.

O's transition team isn't filling the void for you? (smiling) Hillary leaked about a possible Secretary of State job, to pressure O. Everybody knows you don't hold the Clintons too close, and you don't turn your back HER! She's a problem for him. I wonder if O still has control with all those Clinton people surrounding him. What do you think of Hillary as Secretary of State? She doesn't have experience for it, plus she's a Marxist. It's strange, but I trust H more than O. I honestly don't think she hates Americans. She's one of those "well-meaning socialists." I'm trying to say that I'd rather have an American as US President.

Maybe you would like Lucianne.com or worldnetdaily.com. American Thinker.com might fill you up, too. Drudgereport.com is ok. That's the site conservative radio hosts visit. Warning: It's busy on the eyes if that sort of thing bothers you.

about JFK quote: Jefferson is everybody's favorite. Both parties try to claim him. But, if the Dems will just read what he wrote and take his advice, they can have him for eternity. George Washington is another impressive leader. They possessed the kind of humility in leadership that would shame today's politicians, if they had any shame.

Perhaps it's better to tell Dems to return to their roots in JFK. They might relate to him better. He is more "right" than McCain is.

Oh yeah... my state is in a run off for the Senate. Chambliss (R) is running against Martin (D). If Martin wins, the Dems have a filibuster proof Congress. O sent Acorn into my area. Chambliss voted for the bail out and was part of the famous gang of ten for a bipartisan energy bill. Not quite as fun as the O descending into a Greek temple or Palin shooting moose, huh?

We'll see if we can top it in 2012. Some Christians say that's when the anti-Christ will appear on the earth. Should be an exciting election year.

Conservative Cabbie

Verity

I think you and Jill are both right in fact although Jill perhaps said what she wanted to say wrongly. She said Jefferson "ended the foreign slave trade" which as you point out is not strictly true. However he was responsible for the ban on the foreign import of slavery into the U.S. and for ban on the spread of slavery into the new northern states. He however was not responsible for setting the black people in the U.S. free as you said, of course that didn't happen until the end of the civil war. So you are both effectively right which I like.

If you were going to ask me for one historical hero, it would probably be Thomas Jefferson (Lincoln would run him close), he was a great mind.

Jill

Verity, Yes, I was talking about the USA and not the world. Jefferson (with Congress) ended the slavery trade in the USA in 1807. It was illegal to import slaves into the USA or for US citizens to export them from Africa, and to purchase or sell slaves within or between territories, or between territories and states. It had been illegal--for USA citizens--to work on a slave ship since 1800, when Jefferson was elected President. Thanks for the details on the anti slave movement in Great Britain. I always thought the movement against slavery was Christian, both in the US and in GB.

The most fascinating chapter of Britain's history to me is early entrepreneurs in India, before the government took over. The British traders fit into the culture, learned the languages, and even married and started families. They were colorful characters. That part of history gives US students a chance to study British character apart from USA history where all the incorrect British wear girly white tights and wigs and boss innocent Americans around. The British in India were creating an economic boom in an undeveloped country. Too bad the gov't stepped in. They sent in a bunch of white tights and wigs and outlawed the real men. The gov't always messes up. India is a textbook lesson for capitalism and free trade. Don't politicians go to school and learn patterns from history?

Conservative Cabbie

Jill

So you're from Georgia. The GOP really needs a Chambliss win. How are the polls looking?

I'm a little bit worried about 2012, unless Obama's been a disaster, I see him winning re-election and I'm hoping that Sarah Palin and Bobby Jindal will wait until 2016 as I see them as two of the GOP's best rising stars, I'd hate to see them wasted on an electoral defeat. Let Romney or Huckabee go down to Obama, they're more expendable.

phil

Conservative Cabbie
November 18th, 2008 6:02pm

I agree let her write but rather in comics and with the help of cartoons :)

.As what I must assume she is -a teenager ,where has she obtained this vast amount of knowledge of which she is so certain ?.Personally I am a huge supporter of youth and would not seek to deter her ,but I am fed up with having loads of useless and unproven information shovelled at me .Pete on occasion will reject my posts until I edit out more strongly worded passages (not rude,just to the point)but Jill never seems to have been advised to shorten her messages AND I HAVE TO SCROLL THROUGH YARDS OF POSTS TO FIND THE PEARLS OF WISDOM FROM OUR FRIEND THE FRAGRANT ONE .this cap lock is like dr strangeloves arm LOL

Jill

Conserv Cabbie,

I don't know about the polls. Chambliss won about 48 to 49% of the vote. A Libertarian third party guy took some of the vote. He's not running this time. Chambliss will win in my county because, in the presidential race, McCain won almost 90% of the votes. It was something like 8 thousand something McCain to 1 thousand something Obama. It's that way in most counties.

Acorn will find a different set of unofficial rules entirely if they pull anything crooked in the rural areas. We don't like outsiders--especially from the north, especially from Chicago--coming in and taking over even if the intentions are good. They will meet with automatic resistance of the frustrating kind. There may be an untold election 2008 story of Acorn meeting resistance in the rural areas; O lost the state despite targeting us as a swing state. Here's the election results for senate county by county:

http://sos.georgia.gov/elections/election_results/2008_1104/003.htm

As a general rule, the closer the county to Atlanta, the more Democratic it is. The rest of the state is Republican. Atlanta acts like the rest of Georgia is their suburb. They even try to make laws for areas outside their jurisdiction. No joke. The run-off is between small town Georgia versus Atlanta.

Chambliss is a ruralite. He specializes in agriculture and national security. He's a soft-spoken nice man. He's an a-typical southerner. He's not ruthless enough to beat a Chicago political machine; however, the voters value "niceness." <---this statement can’t be exaggerated enough. I don't think Obamaites know Americans and know even less about rural Georgia. Martin, the Dem senate opponent, was born, raised, educated, and mostly lived in Atlanta. He is an a-typical Atlantan. The media has kicked-in nationwide against Chambliss who is such a sweet person. Atlanta's major newspaper is daily churning out anti-Chambliss articles. All the sudden, Chambliss is an ignoramus who says stupid things. Ruralites don’t care what Atlanta says. I'm a little worried because Chambliss is “bipartisan,” which means some Republicans are mad at him. I hope Republicans turn out to vote. The vote will be on Dec 2nd.

Verity

Jill, as is now a tradition on these pages, doesn’t understand the point. She writes, in response to my mentioning that it was William Wilberforce and the British government that stopped the slave trade: “Verity, Yes, I was talking about the USA and not the world. Jefferson (with Congress) ended the slavery trade in the USA in 1807."

So was I.

To repeat: It was William Wilberforce, in Britain, who got the slave trade outlawed - meaning, he got the transporting by Arab slavers of captured people being transported to AMERICA (see? that’s you!), outlawed. And our Navy enforced the law.” Our navy is known as The Royal Navy because we are a monarchy. The Royal Navy was directed to stop all ships carrying humans being transported for purposes of being sold into slavery and TURN THEM BACK. Thus severing the supply lines. As the most powerful nation in the world at that time, we could do that, whether the Arab traders and the American slave buyers liked it or not.

Our navy was deployed on the N Atlantic shipping lanes to enforce this law. They stopped and turned back slave ships bound for AMERICA (See?) Think of us as the United States of the day. We had the superior fire power. We stopped the kidnap and transporting of slaves because it was wrong and the British people wanted it stopped whether it was our business or not.

Jefferson honourably stopped slavery by law in the US. We stopped it by cutting the lines of supply.

Jimmuh Cahduh is from Georgia, isn't he? You certainly do produce some fine international scholars.

Jill

Mr. P, I really don't want to talk to you, but must correct you. I'm not a youth. I'm a non-traditional returning college student. I don't owe you more explanation than that. Judging from all your other posts at other threads besides this one, you act like you speak for everybody when you say "we think this" or "we think that." You use "we" when you correct another poster. It's annoying because you don't speak for me when you continuously correct other posters. I think that behavior is strange.

Ronnie

You leave the room for five minutes and before you know it, Hilary Clinton is a Marxist...

Verity

Jill, with a truly staggering lack of understanding of Britain's role in India: "Too bad the gov't stepped in. They sent in a bunch of white tights and wigs and outlawed the real men."

You are talking absolute, provincial gibberish. India - a 4,000 year old civilisation, a country which did, and still does, produce a startling number of physicists, and which invented the concept of zero and invented what are now called "Arabic" numerals (presumably because they passed through the Middle East to Britain and Europe). It has a a 5,000 year old belief system. It in no way can compare to the N America your ancestors settled.

You are talking arrant rubbish about the British role in India. The government facilitated trade by building the railways, developing ports, developing the ICS, which still exists today.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but it's either ignorant gibberish or you're misunderstanding it because you reference everything back to yourself and your grimly self-satisfied life in Atlanta.

Jill

Whatever, Queen of Nasty. I recognize free trade when I see it and was trying to show you some appreciation. It's too bad one the best parts of your own history was stolen from you so you don't even recognize it. Plus you feel guilty for it. I give up being civil to you, which means your posts are on ignore. It's the only way to avoid holding a grudge, because you and your pals are tempting me to join you in your grudge-fest. I'm not reading any of ya'lls's mean posts.

Jill

Conserv Cabbie,

This was really the only thread I've been posting on. My blogs won't link to this Spectator website anymore because it would be wrong to send people here. I wouldn't want any of my friends to meet some of these rude people. My blog links to Melanie's blog from now on. Thanks for being a friend...if you are still interested in the Chambliss election, you can use some of those links from a previous post. If you want to contact me, you can find me at prayerchannel.blogspot.com. I'm leaving so you won't have to be my angel anymore and so you can go back to being friends with Verity without any problems. It was real nice talking to you. :)

KateA

Frank P to Jill:

"I worry about that degree of toleration, though, as you could well be put-upon, eventually (just a friendly, albeit gratuitous, caveat)."

Brilliant! Laughed until I got a cramp. Suspect the 'Irish' in your house has 'rubbed off' - we'd describe that here as "sly wit". Not that the ubiquitous recipient will take it as anything other than 'literal' praise.

Whatever the aspirations, she has force-fed us a deathly prose! Crashing, 'cut & paste' boredom.

Wow! Got it: "a non-traditional returning college student"! Yes well. I have taught a great number of these over the years - generally they fall into two categories.

a) The grimly-focussed parrots; puffed-up with 'received' opinion and vacuous certitude; they demand inordinate attention and bore the knickers of (this) tutor.

b) The mature reader with a genuine interest in gaining analytical skills and depth. These are invariably interesting, insightful and rewarding to teach.

I have learned a great deal from my mature students. Jill boggles the brain. A closed, self-satisfied world-view revealing serious intellectual deficit whilst 'high' on her own verbosity. The world outside 'college' will not collude with Jill's opinion of her own worth.

A PLEA: to Pete Hoskin and/or other moderators. For God's sake moderate this woman's posts. She has taken over this blog with incomprehensible gibberish.

phil

Kate A as always you show me how to write what I mean to say ,and I probably fail ,so once again you have come to my help :)I had been searching for that very relevant description for ages -as they say in court --I am grateful m,lud lol

phil

Jill good to see you have transmogrified me from a doctor to Mr P-suits me better !sorry you don't get on with verity ,she is such a nice person I cant understand that .but I am grateful for the space you are now affording (may I SAY US )-I cant find where I used the royal WE and of course I only speak for me -so long as you have time for a smile whilst you are producing so much you will enjoy this little message ,so I wish you and your future readers on your own blog great happiness -honestly

Ronnie

Is it safe to come out now...?

phil

no Ronnie !!!!!!!! be careful the fragrant one may return here and no more mrs nice guy:)

Joan

How right you were, Melanie! Here we are 5 months into his presidency and we have been thrust so far into his socialistic agenda, with the debt to secur this holding. I am so sad for our country. He is dragging us in the dirt.

James

A couple of adults in a near by projects needs special guidiance from controlling others in there inenvironment needs to put together some help for lone lost mother's and father's for business and jobs for the both.

Dee

absolutly agree, and michelle dreses old and matrinly i dont care what the celebritis say, its ugly, and i hope people arent just sucking up to him because he is black, or muslem of whatever he is, i dont believe a wod he says, people only voted for him because he is black

Rachel

I think the post above made some interesting points, on a related side note I found a used version of Exit, Voice, and Loyalty: Responses to Decline in Firms, Organizations, and States which is directly related to this topic for less than the bookstores at http://www.belabooks.com/books/9780674276604.htm