A curious inconsistency

grumpy old man

Good to see you're still in love with your Husband. I want to know how the Sergeant-at-Arms could be 6 months in the job and STILL be so ignorant of her primary duties.

C Powell

I think the police now feel that if they want to do something they can.

From my personal professional experience there are quite a lot of agencies who claim to have powers they don't have or that they have done something under those powers when they haven't or have failed to get the relevant legal authority etc plus they go round saying what isn't the case and never imagine that anyone will challenge them. And the fact that the media rarely do challenge them (what investigative journalists do we have left? We have lots of commentators but actual journalists finding things out for themselves?) encourages them in their arrogant complacency.

The police never thought this would blow up in their faces, as it has.

RonB

Why get a search warrant if you are told you don't need one?
I think the police were told as the owner of the property ie the House of Parliment, the Speaker or his agent the Sargeant at Arms, said help yourself and fill your boots.

David Raynes

It all gets curiouser and curiouser. "The excellent Joshua" has suggested that maybe the Police were REFUSED a warrant for the Palace Of Westminster Office. Since having decided on their course of action they MUST have realised from the beginning they would want to search that Office-why no warrant? Were they always going to rely on PACE powers (as I suggested in response to your earlier blog). WHY would they do that? Did they not apply for four warrants for fear of a refusal?Did the information they gave to get their warrants truly reveal ALL and who the individual was? Lots of questions. If they went ahead and searched having been REFUSED a warrant, in the absence of any additional extra grounds, that would show enormous contempt for the provisions of the law they are asked to work under. Perhaps calling Stephenson to the bar of the house is not such a bad idea!

Neil Saunders

I'd say that the senior police officers involved have taken that Common Purpose slogan very much to heart: "Leading beyond authority."

Henry Rogers

The police may be arrogant and insensitive at times, but since the Palace of Westmister search was bound to cause an almighty row they must have had some assurances. Permanent Secretaries are not stupid either and nobody wants to throw away a career. So somebody must have let it be known that all concerned were on safe ground. That could only be a senior politician. Which one or ones, I wonder?

Or am I miles off track and is this just an almighty cock-up caused be a collection of serious stupid people?

The journalist who uncovers the truth will be made for life. But better not go walking in the woods alone!

Vision Aforethought

Has anyone noticed the parallels between the BBC's (well acted, scripted and photographed) 'Spooks' and events of contemporary Britain? Moles, dubious Russian and/or Middle Eastern connections etc? We had to wait until a few years after WW2 to be 'entereducated' with a slew of Hollywood war movies. Today, Spooks is providing a sexed up real-time commentary on world events - almost attempting to justify a few actual goings on out in the real world. With relation to the topic of M's posting, this event and the most recent (and compelling) episode of Spooks involved the term 'Mole'. Spooky or what?

Joe

Having heard part of the Speakers statement on the radio this evening I can only say it struck me as pathetic and on a par with the "McCavity" defence used by Gordo and Jacquie Spliff previously.

"I did not authorise the search" NOT I did not know about it or I did not object to the Sergeant at Arms signing the consent form.

The standard "buck passing" we've come to expect from (Za)Nu-labour.

Hazel Blears was equally slippery in her later interview in trying to avoid answering questions on the issue.

If, as I understand was the case here, you are asked by the police to sign a consent form prior to a search being made it surely telegraphs loud and clear that absent consent the requested action cannot be properly carried out so why did the S at A sign the form without further question? If so she clearly lacks the simple commonsense one can reasonably expect of a person in such a position.

Distinct smell of fish to my mind ............

Joe

TrevorsDen

'Permanent Secretaries are not stupid' ... oh dear - there is pone born every minute.

Jeremy

It just gets worse, doesn't it?

The police had no warrant to search Mr Green's Parliamentary office. The Sergeant-at-Arms did not even ask to see a warrant before letting them in (that is quite breathtaking) and the police issue a statement implying they did have a warrant.

strapworld:

"No court could possibly convict Green after the Speaker told the house that no warrant was held. They have, in effect, acted outside the law and in another blog, a highly respected QC, says that Mr green should sue the Metropolitan Police. I hope his solicitors so advise and I hope he takes them to the cleaners...."

Melanie, given these circumstances, I'm sure your husband would know whether or not Mr Green would be well advised to sue the Metropolitan Police. Because if so, then I think that he should.

john east

Your husband has spotted yet another very interesting fact in this case, but as each year goes by I become less convinced of the evil machiavellian intentions of New Labour. We've seen apparent example after example of this, and yet when the dust settles we usually see a bunch of arrogant, incompetent, buffoons furiously digging themselves deeper and deeper into an embarrassing cock up.

I suspect this latest episode will be a repeat performnce of earlier cock ups, and like the others will be forgotten when the press get bored, and move on to the next New Labour gaff.

Dixon

Vision Aforethought
December 3rd, 2008 9:11pm
Has anyone noticed the parallels between the BBC's (well acted, scripted and photographed) 'Spooks' and events of contemporary Britain? Moles, dubious Russian and/or Middle Eastern connections etc? "

No, think about what you have said ( or envisioned, before thought ). "Spooks" merely plays back the commonest cliches about modern Britain. Thats circular. No credit whatever to the BBC. Merely indicates their lack of imagination and willingness to endorse cliches.

Or do you think, after watching the well written, competently directed and superbly acted "Apparitions" that there really are demons and common outbreaks of Satanic posession?

George Steiner

Now now fellows who is stupid, New Labour or the people who re-elect them time and again?

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Ms. Phillips: Please remember that a lot of the people who read your blog are not English and have no idea who Damian Green is or what he was accused of or why his office was searched. Could you please provide a little summary of the background and facts?

Andre

Miranda Rose Smith - I agree with you but fail to see the interest in this - smacks of media hysteria to me more than an attempt to subvert the constitution. Green was questioned for accepting secret info from a civil servant which apparently might compromise national security. Once again the Tories look like bumptious naughty public schoolboys caught in the apple orchard. The government simply comes across as incompetent with the police caught in the middle in a spiders web of bewildering anti-terrorist laws and strident demands from all sides to do the decent thing. We know that politicians are irresponsible with national security, invading countries on idiotic pretexts, compromising with rogue terror regimes and failing to understand the danger that sits in our midst - so clearly articulated on this blog. My sympathies are with the cops on this one. Young Green needs to 'fess up

Henry Rogers

Trevorsden,

On reflection I think you are probably right about Permanent Secretaries. Silly me for confusing cunning with wisdom. Gone are the days of the best brains etc; but we all used to believe that BS, didn't we!

TomTom

I agree with you but fail to see the interest in this - smacks of media hysteria to me more than an attempt to subvert the constitution.

Exactly what Richard Nixon's counsel thought about Watergate, which was after all a consequence of a National Security issue related to Daniel Ellsberg and The Pentagon Papers.

They were called "Plumbers" because they were plugging leaks.

Sound familiar ?

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Andre: Thanks.

mcmrjp

Melanie, what should be noted is that the Palace of Westminster is a "Royal Palace" and as such no legal action can be taken without the express permission of the Serjeant at Arms. You cannot serve court summons there and I doubt any Judge would sign a warrant for there. No this was an illegal search and (I suspect) an illegal arrest. It is quite clear to me that this was "arranged" at the highest levels between the government and police. No longer is Britain the cradle of democracy.

raymond joseph douglas

My big worry, is that Mr Bean/Stalin, will find a way of suspending elections to keep his maladroit crew in power. The British people, matter less and less !But perhaps that is our fault, for voting in this shower time and time again! Like Esau, we have been bought off for a bowl of pottage, and missed the blessing of good government!

Neil Saunders

"We" do NOT keep "voting in this shower again and again".

Under our farcical, undemocratic, first-past-the-post electoral system the largest party in Parliament gets voted in, generally with a minority of the popular vote.

Neuroskeptic

"My big worry, is that Mr Bean/Stalin, will find a way of suspending elections to keep his maladroit crew in power."

Yes, I find this a very worrying possibility as well, since if it actually happened it would mean that British political culture would have changed completely overnight. Jesus, I expect this kind of paranoid nonsense from the American right, but here? Get thee to Texas, sonny jim.

raymond joseph douglas

Dear Neuroskeptic, I sincerely hope your opinion of my comments is right. It is just that so many things DO seem to be changing overnight. Governments running banks, borrowing running at unprecedented levels, the arrest of Damian green, the call for stronger world government. All this leads me to suspect the worst ! But this sonny jim will just keep praying for the best, but preparing for the worst! Hope this helps.

Oleg

Maybe they did have a warrant to search Damian Green's Commons office, but have now decided not to mention it, for fear that we might thus find out who signed it, and draw conclusions as to who in the Home Office must have known about it.

Julie

Dixon said,

No, think about what you have said ( or envisioned, before thought ). "Spooks" merely plays back the commonest cliches about modern Britain. Thats circular. No credit whatever to the BBC. Merely indicates their lack of imagination and willingness to endorse cliches.

For the most part it is just hokum, Dixon, but there was one episode of Spooks in the last series that was obviously about the Legislatory and Regulatory Reform Bill and the kind of abuses that it could lead to. This incident with Damien Green is in actual fact an example. So there is someone in the script room who knows a bit about what's going on.

phil

Melanie I agree Joshua is always excellent ,and maybe he can advise us whether the police were guilty of deception ?

Perhaps we are getting it wrong but if we are not it seems a truly despicable way of taking advantage of an inexperienced sergeant at arms ,and for goodness sake do not let her take the blame ,she was a small cog in a wicked wheel .

trasker

It's all just plumbing
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