From the horse's mouth

David

"....end the Iraq war....extort green concessions from Detroit.....pass a major stimulus package that will lay the foundation for the development of an alternative energy manufacturing industry....help reduce housing foreclosures....let the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire."

Good lord, do his evil schemes know no bounds?

elixelx

This sounds more like a communist wish list than any real understanding of Obama!

Note the condescension: Conservatives, in fact most people, including Clinton, are MUCH TOO STUPID to understand the agenda, or the books, but Mark Rudd isn't; Bill Ayers isn't; Dohrn isn't! They read between lines where there we see only nothingness!

In fact, in this rehashing of History, the Weatherman were the most brilliant group of social activists ever assembled and it's taken ONLY 40 years for their dream to be realized in the person of Obama!

Lenin himself had to wait 24 years, and needed a bloody revolution! He would be so proud of his spiritual son, Obama, although I am sure he would spit on the efforts of his putative acolytes, these ineffectual Weathermen, who couldn't tell you where the foul wind was coming from, especially if it emanated from their own orifices!

They wouldn't know their Madrases from their Elbas!

Well, Mark, that's 40 years of achieving nothing vital and you've got just the next four to prove that pie-in-the-sky is sweet and satisfying!

Yeah, I know; this is a struggle for the generations; but I will go to my grave happy in the knowledge that you will go to yours with your evil loves unrequited, and your eternal hopes dashed!

Anthony

David, what you've just spelt out is the surface. It's what the public are allowed to see - we can all see this. It's in the media every day. That's not the revelatory part of this.

What most people don't see is what Jeff Jones refers to as the "smokescreen".

As Mark Rudd puts it above: "What he's doing now is moving on the most popular issues." There's the rub.

Jeff Jones says: "This guy is really SMART." Well, smart enough to have listened to and copied Tony Blair.

This is all textbook Blair: play to the middle ground gallery and as the electorate smiles sweetly, put them in a straightjacket.

Obama will have to pour acid on America's bedrock values in a different way from Blair because he can't just delegate a huge portion of radical change to the EU and watch as the electorate becomes so confused with who to blame they just give up and accept it as a fait accompli, but there clearly is a smokescreen. And what do you need a smokescreen for if you're not being sneaky?

To look at the Blair comparison again, Blair won power with his pledge card. What the voters weren't presented with on that pledge card were things like taking a sledgehammer to the British constitution and allowing the biggest ever wave of immigration this country has ever seen - that, oh-so neatly, was never in any of the last three Labour manifestos. This is one of the biggest biggest ever in the direction of this country and yet no-one ever voted for it. It is a miraculous political move because the public never even knew it was on the cards.

A huge proportion of that level of immigration is down to European rules, which government ministers now use to get themselves off the hook in interviews: "not me, guv". And, of course, one of the other key limbs to preventing ojections to this level of immigration are all the 'hate' crimes New Labour invented. That's the whole purpose of those hate crimes, to create a culture in which people are even afraid to raise objections to things such as immigration.

That's one example of how you create radical change without the public ever having thought of it as an election issue.

That smokescreen Jeff Jones describes is there for a reason - some of that 'change' Obama has up his sleeve is clearly so radical, the American public must not even be aware it is even being undertaken.

Byron in Wahroonga

****his effort to end the Iraq war. He is going to successfully extort green concessions from Detroit. He will convince Congress to pass a major stimulus package that will lay the foundation for the development of an alternative energy manufacturing industry. He will do something to help reduce housing foreclosures. He will let the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire....

...he will turn water into wine. He will feed five thousand with a few fish and loves....

He! These Obama acolytes are a laugh a minute. Jim Jones at the People's Temple never dreamed cultish devotion could be this absolute.

Conservative Cabbie

It is is the judges that will reveal whether Obama is really a centrist or is a radical leftist masquerading as a centrist.

I think he's perfectly happy to conduct a centre-right foreign policy, F.P. is never big on a liberals agenda, they are more interested in social matters. If he's appointing constitutionally interpretative and activist judges then Obama is moving America sharply to the left, if his judicial appointments are similar to his cabinet ones (a bit for the left, a bit for the right) then the right can breath a collective sigh of relief, they just have to put up with a bit of liberalism for 4-8 years.

Neuroskeptic

He's a cunning old fox, alright. First he appoints centrists to his cabinet. Then when he gets into power he'll start implementing centrist policies. Before you know it - he's got a reputation as a competent moderate bipartisan figure. And then he runs for re-election on that basis - and wins! Then, for the final stage of his devious ploy, he continues to play the centrist through his second term thus ensuring that another centrist Democratic has a chance in 2012.

He's not fooling us. We Spectator readers know he's really the most liberal person in the world.

raymond joseph douglas

Obama, may well be the man who ushers in the Anti-Christ! He may even be the Anti-Christ himself, in a deception like Pal patine pulled on the Republic in Star Wars, revenge of the Sith !

Dixon

"...people may begin to discuss cutting the military budget if security is being increased through diplomacy and application of nascent international law."

BUT!...that rests on the enormous article of faith among these people, being that diplomacy will work!

Clearly, the Machievellian schemer Melanie is quoting, a millimetre under the skin is just another rosey-spectacled dreamer.

I await the pleasant prospect of their dreams unravelling amidst the chaos our enemies are no doubt even now cooking up...as predicted by none other than Joe Biden, the dep-pres ( or "deppres" ) himself.

Verity

He's going to push a "green agenda" and the writer says he's smart?

He's a shill, like Blair, that's all. And only thinks what other people tell him to think, and then when he parrots them back, they cry, "Brilliant! What an astute political thinker!"

That many millions are deeply suspicious of this snake oil salesman is evidenced by the fact that he outspent McCain by over three to one to get into the White House - $600m is the staggering number, yet only won by 2% of the vote. There are more canny Americans than there were canny Brits when they gave Blair an overwhelming first victory.

John Thomas

But let's remember, Obama may be brilliant, patient, and Lenin-like, but he won't have it all his own way - just give chance & accident an opportunity - and banana skins; will he still be the media's darling when a few things go wrong and he can't deliver paradise? I doubt it.

Neuroskeptic

"That many millions are deeply suspicious of this snake oil salesman is evidenced by the fact that he outspent McCain by over three to one to get into the White House - $600m is the staggering number, yet only won by 2% of the vote."

Well this is a a brilliant piece of reasoning, Verity, although it does have the slight drawback that Obama actually won by 8% of the nationwide popular vote (52% to 46%). Whereas Blair on his first term got just 43% of the popular vote - he won by a 12% margin, but only because the non-Blair vote was split so many ways.

If you keep up this kind of thing, Verity, Melanie might be out of a job!

hadrian

Obama the anti-Christ? No, that position's already filled by an aging German in Rome.
As for suffering at the hands of 'colonialists' I think one has only to look at vast swathes of Africa now run by its indigenous tribal peoples to realise where the real suffering stems from.

phil

L IFE IS GETTING TOUGHER BY THE DAY -pres -elect O is doing everything opposite to all your predictions and even so is being accused of being devious -the guy cant win here can he ?-what will you all say if he proves to be a great president,which I hope he will .We need a great president and continually knocking him is not the way to get one -For goodness sake give him his 100 days and keep quiet until then ,this rhetoric is becoming very boring ,although from some quarters not unexpected .

The American people elected him ,do you think they are all stupid ?,or do you think you are the one,s in step and they are not -I really find it hard to accept that so many intelligent posters can keep writing the same worn out tune -I will accept an avalanche of abuse now :) but please save me from the fragrant one ,my heart bleeds for her every day in her misery at the overwhelming result.I will repeat for the umpteenth time that MCCAIN was my preference at the outset ,but both his campaign and ticket were wrong and so it proved .

Melanie too ,who I almost always agree with seems on a wavelength far distant from her normal practical thought process,s---I believe many of you will be very embarrassed when this man succeeds,and if I am wrong you can paste me to your hearts content .

Well there you are guys this will give you someone to get stuck into :)

james Huggins

Obama is a slick-tongued snake oil salesman. He counted on the fact that most American voters are too uneducated to actually follow up on an issue. Too uninformed due to the leftist mainstream media. And also to the fact that the Republican party is too gutless to actually attack the democrats where they need to be attacked. The Republicans in general and John McCain in particular want to be "moderate". While they are sucking up to the New York Times and network TV by trying to appear "moderate" the Democrats are going for the throat and turning the US into a socialist wasteland.

Sound familiar?

THX1138

james a bit bitter are we ? All the smart educated people in good jobs voted for Obama, all McCain/Palin got were the christianist wingnut, crystal meth smoking trailer trash vote from a few southern states.

George Steiner

Permit me to re-quote myself from an earlier post.
"The handlers of Obambi know that it is important not to frighten the natives. If the natives became nervous the democratic majority will evaporate two years from now. In addition there is the minor point of re-election four years from now.

The left today is not interested in revolution but rather the slow march trough the institutions. This is done by slow deceitful apparent moderation. This has already happened to the Brits with the devious New Labour. But the Brits only moan now in the Spectator. The British conservatives are a spent force of political pigmies.

In the US the leftwing handlers of Obambi are succeeding already. Notice the many compliments to the centrist moderation of the Obambi appointments."

Some of you think that it is just a matter of waiting out four or eight years. Not so. Notice the resilience of your own socialists and the enormous damage they have done already.

Jasmine

phil, the bulk of the post above comes not from the pen of Melanie Phillips but from two people with extremely strong ties to Barack Obama.

So strong, in fact, that they are both associates of the man in whose living room Barack Obama launched his political career.

They know inside out the genesis and development of Barack Obama's political ideology and - most pertinently here - his methodology.

If you don't like the fact that they confirm just what Melanie Phillips has been writing about for months on end, that's just tough.

John

Rather all this than that neo-Con Bush. He's made the world SUCH a better place hasnt he.

Tom Cat

That's right, John. It's all George Bush's fault. All those hundreds of dead in Mumbai - all George Bush's fault. Thousands dead on 9/11 - all George Bush's fault.

So you'll tell me, John, what George Bush did to inspire this doctrine of: "Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate."

In case you haven't noticed, John, you and every other canting jaw lost your Aunt Sally on 4 November and I - and plenty of others - want to know what a jihad that has been going on for centuries ago has got to do with George W Bush.

Verity

Neurskeptic - the percentage by which Obama got in is all over the place. The number I have read most often is 2 percent; but I have also read 4 percent. There'll be some technical reason about the way the votes are calculated, but even taking your figure, which I think is flawed, 600m to get 8% is still awfully steep and tells us that he didn't win on his own merits, but on money.

Interesting that Blair was nicknamed Bambi. And Obama, Obambi. Chilling.

George Steiner, I agree it's not a case of waiting the next eight years out. Many Brits thought that, as Blair's malign intentions began to become clear to anyone with eyes, he would not be re-elected. But he was. And a third time. (We need a two-term limit, like the Americans.)

Jasmine's comment is correct and instructive.

phil

Jasmine spell it out for me what do you think he will do -most of the policies outlined above seem pretty centrist to me ,social I agree but hardly commie -all I read is name calling nobody wants to say where he is going to "get us" maybe you can -

I and the majority of Americans are fooled . our most fragrant writer continues to call William Ayers a murderer but fails to say who he murdered or where or how ,then runs away when challenged -again maybe you can enlighten us -the sum total of this is so many call him out but none give any facts -here is your chance -I can be persuaded .

Kiwi Polemicist

Obama's true agenda is close to that of Marx & Stalin, but a direct entry into those policies would scare the American people. Thus Obama will introduce the policies gradually.

It's the difference between putting a frog straight into boiling water and putting a frog into cold water then turning on the heat.

Obama is smart, that's what makes him so dangerous.

The only man capable of projecting significant military force around the world is a Muslim-influenced (or just plain Muslim) black-supremacist communist.

www.kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com

Peter

So much conviction based on nothing more than conjecture, assumption, sophism and just plain gibberish. Whatever will you do if he turns out to be a decent, hardworking, intelligent person who genuinely cares about the American people.

Give it a rest people. The same old tune is getting tiresome. Especially when you're all singing off key.

Conservative Cabbie

"Rather all this than that neo-Con Bush. He's made the world SUCH a better place hasnt he"

Well actually yes he has. Two new democracies, a defanged Libya, an international terrorist organisation on the back foot and a concerted effort against maleria in Africa. Not a bad legacy for those not blinded by their liberalism.

Rob-NY

Say what you will about these Marxist terrorists like Rudd and Jones; at least they are not politicians and therefore can tell the truth in a nation that they did their very best to destroy.

Byron in Wahroonga

***if you keep up this kind of thing, Verity, Melanie might be out of a job!***

No way, Neuro. People prefer conservative columnists, that's why you're here. More likely Verity would be offered her own column.

Byron in Wahroonga

***will he still be the media's darling when a few things go wrong and he can't deliver paradise?***

Exactly, John.

They'll turn on him like a pet cobra.

Byron in Wahroonga

***james a bit bitter are we ? All the smart educated people in good jobs voted for Obama***

He! THX, lecturing on bitterness. Hey TH, you won't be taking the day off on the 25th, I hope? Atheistic hypocrisy is *so* unattractive.

james huggins

what happened to my reply to thx1138? Someone that eloquent can't be ignored.

Steven

He'll be a pragmatic thoughtful professional politician proving drivel like Mel's piece exactly what it is - drivel.
And I love most of what Mel writes, but this is just hysterical claptrap.

Jasmine

phil, I think, in accordance with Mark Rudd and Jeff Jones that Barack Obama will create a ‘smokescreen’ in the shape of a centrist posture to his administration and then use that smokescreen to try to undertake as radicalist agenda as possible - without the bulk of the public noticing.

I think this because this is a man with a history of being secretive about a great deal, from his full birth certificate to the papers he wrote while at university. He and his team are clearly past masters at keeping plenty about him out of sight - the man is a smoker and yet they have managed to make sure we have never even seen a photograph of him smoking. That is how successful this man is at being secretive.

I think this, too, because this is a man with a huge history of radicalist associations - mentoring by Frank Marshall Davies, and Jeremiah ‘God damn America’ Wright, buddying up with unrepentant terrorist William Ayers, going on marches with Louis Farrakhan, who calls Obama "a herald of the Messiah", and so on.

His radicalism goes so far that he has even let slip that he believes the US constitution is in his word ‘imperfect’. I believe a statement like that tells us just how radical his smokescreened ambitions are.

Here is his radicalist resume:

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1511

What we normally do when we assess politicians is to look at their past. Their past character, their past judgement, past utterances and so on, and then use that to see whether we really believe the image they’re trying to convey to us today.

You want this normal approach to political assessment suspended. Why?

Why are we all supposed to say: “Well, obviously, there’s been a complete volte face by this man about his radicalist past and his penchant for secrecy. He’s a politician. He wouldn’t try to use his power in an underhand way.”

I refuse to accept any such thinking like that. I think the same standards of political enquiry should be applied to Barack Obama as to any other politician. And I believe that once you do that, you see just how terrible a mistake America has made in electing him.

London Calling

The alternative was? Joe the plumber… Joe the plumber and of course Joe the plumber…. Give the American people some credit, they woke up and wanted
better, don’t we all?

If as stated Barack Obama is smart and manipulative, then naivety and manipulation by association are not the credentials one would desire for the future of American politics. This drudging of personal attacks has become quite tiresome, may I suggest a large bale of hay for the horses
...

Peter

Gee, thanks, Jasmine for the heads-up on the terrible mistake America has made in electing Obama. We Americans are a pretty dumb lot but with the highly researched work of people like yourself and Melanie, I think we will soon see the error of our ways.

I'm scared enough to find out that Obama is being compared to Stalin, Marx and Lenin, as well as being a terrorist sympathizer (or is he an actual terrorist?), a muslim with a forged birth certificate and a communist. Now, you inform us he smokes! And, there are no pictures of him doing so.(Another example of those lefties in the press.)

I think I'm starting to see the light; the veil has been lifted. Whew, just wait 'til all those people he's nominated find out what he's really up to. I bet Hillary Clinton thinks she's going to be Secretary of State when, in fact, it's really Louis Farrakand and William Ayres who will be running the state department from a few levels down.

No siree, I, for one, will not be surprised when I wake up some morning to find out that my country has turned into a communist regime, ruled by black supremists. I know, I know, it's going to be done so gradually that we idiots won't know what's happening to us. All those government employees, the Supreme Court, the military, the Senate, business leaders, etc., he'll fool them all. They'll be mad as hell when they discover that he's re-engineered the entire country when they weren't looking. Oh, I forgot, we're never going to know what he's really doing because it will be so gradual and those big brainiacs, the conservatives, will be in denial and the lefties in the press won't tell us. And, and, (gee I'm feeling a little breathless here) of course, we're just too dumb to figure it out ourselves.

Augustus

Those hundred of millions of people around the world saw 'hope' and 'change' in Obama's face, but instead, Americans are literally getting the Bush plan for Iraq run by Pres-elect Obama. Does this matter? Nope. The left are as silent as a Muslim community after a jihadi bombing. They don't care. One wonders, however, if the silence and support for the Bush policy under President Obama is yet more evidence that opposition to the war in Iraq was more about opposing President Bush than it was about patriotic dissent against a war. Two men put out the same policy, but one is opposed and the other fully supported. Conclusion, opposition was against the man not the issue.

An American

I hope some of you will be kind enough to give me some credit. I've been warning against the very things that Obama's far leftie friends are now confiding.

As I said earlier... Obama will go slowly and seem to be reasonable/middle of the political road but the telling will be in his selection of judges. Then we will know where he hopes to take the US. At first, we'll only know these judges backgrounds...and it will take time until we see Obama's judges in action. I believe his judges will do everything in their power to undermine our Constitution. If they can manage to do enough damage, there will be no hope for this country to remain one of the few Capitalist countries left in the world...unless, of course, we have a revolution, which I believe could very well happen.

All of the financial troubles the US is experiencing right now is because of the Barney Franks in Congress who decided that every American deserved a new home even if they couldn't make the first monthly payment for that home.
But that's what old Barney's cohorts in the Congress and Obama wanted...everything to collapse..they're laughing in their beers (maybe wine) this evening. Now our socialist Congressmen are busy using our tax dollars to buy out every private business that comes with their hands out for a loan.

Socialist want complete power...they don't want citizens and private businesses actually functioning and succeeding with their own innovative ideas and hard work. The Obamas of the world want complete control and want all of us to be their obedient drones who hand over every cent we make to them for the benefit of the losers-takers and braindead that will continue to keep voting for them.

I can't express how very angry I am at the brain-dead Americans who voted for this lying Fraud.

His people are now talking about carving his visage on Mt. Rushmore...What a Joke!...well if that time comes, that can be taken care of too.

Yes...I know, Bush let us down on these bailouts and I'm angry with him too. I don't think he's smart enough to know how they all hoodwinked him.

Neuroskeptic

"Neurskeptic - the percentage by which Obama got in is all over the place. The number I have read most often is 2 percent; but I have also read 4 percent. There'll be some technical reason about the way the votes are calculated, but even taking your figure, which I think is flawed, 600m to get 8% is still awfully steep and tells us that he didn't win on his own merits, but on money."

Except of course that he got the money to pay for his campaign entirely from donations, i.e. on his own merits.

Could anyone who has posted on this thread explain how they are any more qualified to comment on these matters than the average carrot?

An American

Thx1138
You've got it wrong pal...
Most of the well-educated, informed, successful people in the US voted Republican. The few rich people voting for Obama were brainless Hollywood degenerates.
My husband has a Phd in Physics, is a Fellow of the American Physical Society and I have a Masters degree. We are hard-working and successful as is all of our friends and children..and we would never vote for a fraud like Obama.
Only the uninformed, misled, uneducated, brain-dead,'gimme-gimme' lefties voted for Obama.
Obama's fans are the takers in life...but you would probably know more about that than me.

An American

Thx1138
You've got it wrong pal...
Most of the well-educated, informed, successful people in the US voted Republican. The few rich people voting for Obama were brainless Hollywood degenerates.
My husband has a Phd in Physics, is a Fellow of the American Physical Society and I have a Masters degree. We are hard-working and successful as is all of our friends and children..and we would never vote for a fraud like Obama.
Only the uninformed, misled, uneducated, brain-dead,'gimme-gimme' lefties voted for Obama.
Obama's fans are the takers in life...but you would probably know more about that than me.

An American

I hope some of you will be kind enough to give me some credit. I've been warning against the very things that Obama's far leftie friends are now confiding.

As I said earlier... Obama will go slowly and seem to be reasonable/middle of the political road but the telling will be in his selection of judges. Then we will know where he hopes to take the US. At first, we'll only know these judges backgrounds...and it will take time until we see Obama's judges in action. I believe his judges will do everything in their power to undermine our Constitution. If they can manage to do enough damage, there will be no hope for this country to remain one of the few Capitalist countries left in the world...unless, of course, we have a revolution, which I believe could very well happen.

All of the financial troubles the US is experiencing right now is because of the Barney Franks in Congress who decided that every American deserved a new home even if they couldn't make the first monthly payment for that home.
But that's what old Barney's cohorts in the Congress and Obama wanted...everything to collapse..they're laughing in their beers (maybe wine) this evening. Now our socialist Congressmen are busy using our tax dollars to buy out every private business that comes with their hands out for a loan.

Socialist want complete power...they don't want citizens and private businesses actually functioning and succeeding with their own innovative ideas and hard work. The Obamas of the world want complete control and want all of us to be their obedient drones who hand over every cent we make to them for the benefit of the losers-takers and braindead that will continue to keep voting for them.

I can't express how very angry I am at the brain-dead Americans who voted for this lying Fraud.

His people are now talking about carving his visage on Mt. Rushmore...What a Joke!...well if that time comes, that can be taken care of too.

Yes...I know, Bush let us down on these bailouts and I'm angry with him too. I don't think he's smart enough to know how they all hoodwinked him.

Baz

There you go again Mel. You've gone and picked up that old tattered Obama rag doll in order to give it yet another shaking.

Drop it Mel. Drropppp iiittt!

Funny that the winner gets to pick his team. That's what winners tend to do. And you're surprised? At what? That he didn't deign to consult you first for approval? Ah, the impertinence of the man!

conrad carter

...read his books, you mean the ones written by Bill Ayres?

dukas

Government funded ACORN did a lot more then stimulate the emotionally immature and get the homeless to the polls. Forty years of quiet communist infiltration of the educational system with scapegoats kooks, such as Ward Church, allowed quieter indoctrination by professors poised to poison the minds of generations with spellbinding propaganda.
Café standards, hindrance of practical energy development, the fear mongering of global warming, the scam of subprime loans at Fanny Mae and Freddie Mack, which is the core of the world melt down going on now, was all provably caused by the extreme left in American government, who, instead of exposure and punishment, now control the hundreds of billions in bailout. The revolution of redistribution of wealth is well under way, but as history suggests, sows its own seeds of self destruction. Unfortinately the phoenix is only born from ruins of destruction, which means; all that’s held dear will have to die. The tree of death will grow quickly, the seeds have been incubating for a long time.

rk

Here's some "principles" from the Democratic Socialists of America on "Economic Justice"

* Progressive taxation and major cuts in wasteful military spending to provide necessary
public revenue;
(me: 40% of our country pays no taxes, and Obama wants to give them a check)

• Universal social insurance programs and high-quality public goods;
me: pretty much done, universal h/c is on its way (no promises on quality)

• Powerful democratic labor and social movements capable of achieving equity in the labor
market; and
me: Card Check

• Global institutions that advance labor and human rights and provide for a sustainable
environment.
me: Making NAFTA etc. provide for Labor/Human/Enviro rights.

Bottom line...we are already pretty close to the DSA goals. Conservatives are pretty much go-along guys/gals. In fact Bush took a lot of people off the tax roles, and started the Bank nationalizations, etc. And started Senior Drug programs.

Dan Schwartz in NJ

Rest assured, us conservatives here in the States are watching Obama like a hawk.

That being said, we are tunned that he appointed Hillary to the Sec'y of State post; and especially as part of the deal that SHE gets to choose her staff, not the White House.

Where the left is going to go nuts is when, because we're broke, he delays parts of his green agenda long enough to allow the Global Warming Hoax to be exposed, as we descend into a mini Ice Age.

Also, the conservative media and think tanks (like American Enterprise Institute, Heritage Foundation, and Cato Institute) here are much stronger than in Britain, with Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, Laura Ingraham, and so forth.

My biggest fear of Obama: Amnesty for the 12 to 20 million illegal aliens already here. American citizenship is NOT for sale.

Margaux

Known Ayers writings and known Soetoro/Hussein/0bong0's writings have been forensically analyzed and it has been determined that Ayers is the ghost writer of the books. Google it. 0b0ng0 is too stupid to have done it. It has been proven without a shadow of a doubt.
And by the way, we here in America already knew this twit was up to this type of behavior. We have been screaming it for 2 years. Nothing new. I hate dimorats. Useless pos's.

Cynical Voter

Will Obama send gritters out on our roads ? He should instruct our local council to get snowploughs out, and then he can tell Gordon Brown to sort out the mess he has created.

We all have high expectations of Obama so he had better not let us down.

Conservative Cabbie

Peter/Phil

The reason why many of us who are either cautious of Obama (or downright hostile) is because we have no track record of achievement to judge him by. We are left to judge him by his past (including some radical associates), his comments about seeking out marxists at college and the fact that he portrayed a leftist image of himself in the primaries only to run to the centre during the general election.

This quote from Dreams of My Father should be a cause for concern without any evidence to say otherwise: "To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists." That suggests a radical to me.

It might well be that he has "seen the light" and evolved into a centrist, but there is little ACTUAL evidence to confirm this thesis.

Conservative Cabbie

Phil

Expressing outrage that people criticise a left-leaning President (i'm being generous on the left leaning bit so as not to upset you further) on a right-leaning website is a bit like the kid who put his thumb in the dam. I agree that only true judgements can be made on his track record (wouldn't it be nice if he had one), but where's the fun in waiting four or five months.

You think this is bad, cast your mind back to 2000, all the left did was go on and on about Bush stealing the election and yet it is the right that are expected to be magnanimous in defeat and to embrace Obama. Personally, I don't think we should be pandering to the left's double standards.

phil

Jasmine and Cabbie ,my point is simple -he is elected -you may well be right but there is nothing anyone can do about that and I believe he must be given a chance -can you really believe that America will allow him to do all the things he stands accused of ?-I do understand your concerns ,but why not wait in the wings and monitor him ,although I am sure the congress and the senate will do that any how -they surely are not all subversives -You two write calmly but so many are writing hysterical and unfounded comments ,they risk undermining an already shaky world order at a time we need confident leadership -all I suggest is give the man a chance and watch carefully .

I cant remember who, but someone told me as a young person that if one didn't start well to the left ,one would never become a decent person -or words to that effect.You are both educated ,that is obvious ,so you may remember the passions you had as students to make the world a better place -me too-but it is tempered now by pragmatism and a realisation that everyone does not have equal ability and opportunity-As I have said many times I believe those more gifted/fortunate have a responsibility to care for those less fortunate than themselves -left wing? absolutely not,just compassion -Hopefully SEN O shares that feeling and has evolved

I am grateful for your measured responses ,so much better than some of the ad hominem attacks on anyone with a different opinion,at least we have the chance to learn something from one another -I just wish one or two of our more regular and sarcastic contributers could learn a little class from you .
.

Geoff M

Heres some more insight into Obama's thinking:-

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/ben_macintyre/article5282113.ece

Conservative Cabbie

Phil

Yes Obama did win the election, and by a plurality to boot. However, it was only 52%, we're not talking ringing endorsement. In a democracy, losers shouldn't just tuck their tail between their legs and wait until the next election, they should question and judge and hold to account the people in power. What Melanie, Verity, An American and the rest of us righties are saying about Obama is nothing compared to what the left said about Bush during the last eight years, all we're seeing is a little payback for the ad hominem nature of the modern leftist.

Right wing supporters on a right wing blog attack a left wing President and the cultists (I'm not including you) get all offended. Pathetic really!

Like you, I would rather wait to see how he governs before passing final judgement, but I will defend the right of people to say whatever they like about him.

Jasmine

Peter, I don’t believe all Americans are dumb at all. I do believe that like many electorates the world over, they are capable of being duped by political image-makers.

I’m so sorry if you’re scared to see Obama compared with Lenin but there’s little point in shooting the messenger because the comparison is made by Jeff Jones, an Obama supporter - .‘Even Lenin would be impressed!’

How am I supposed to take the blame for what Jeff Jones says? It’s not my fault if my assessment of Barack Obama matches up in this instance with an Obama supporter.

Excuse me for citing a hyperlink that catalogues all of Obama’s radicalist links. How am I to blame for all those facts?

Oh, sorry, you also don’t like hearing about Obama’s secretive smoking. I thought this was now common knowledge. Here‘s a professional journalist, Peter Hitchens, talking about it:

ST BARACK’S EXPENSIVE SCHOOLS AND SNEAKY CIGARETTES

"Still the Obama-worship continues. Scores of Americans denounced me for suggesting last week that Mr Obama was not divine. How do these people cope with the fact that the President-elect, following a fine old Left-wing tradition on both sides of the Atlantic, is seeking to send his daughters to terrifyingly expensive private schools in Washington DC?

"Surely, in between curing cancer and mending the hole in the ozone layer, Mr Obama can fix the US capital’s atrocious state schools?

"And have any of you ever seen a picture of Mr Obama, a heavy smoker, with a cigarette in his mouth? No, nor have I. Why is that?"

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2008/11/if-baby-p-had-b.html

So I’ve offended you, Peter, by saying that Barack Obama is a secret radicalist and demonstrated this by showing his appetite for, er, secrecy and radicalism.

What other conclusion am I supposed to come to?

Peter

Conservatism in America is looking for a leader. The Bush years created an enormous void in addressing the needs of the American people; a dereliction of duty for domestic affairs.

The lack of interest, vision and ideas from republicans over the past eight years have brought the country to a very dangerous point. They did it all by themselves, without the help of the jihadists. Someone forgot to take a look at what was going on at home while they were busy fixing the rest of the world. (And, no, this is not Barney Franks doing.)

The GOP is in a shambles. The party is guided by reactionary, 1950's "father knows best" slogans. Unless someone or some group step forward soon to put a new face on the GOP, the party will continue its course on dissolving into a disparate, irrelevant, angry group.

Notwithstanding the embarrassing attempts of Sarah Pallin and Joe the Plumber to represent the republican platform, one can only hope there resides within the party a body of intellect that will resist the dumbing-down of complex issues. So far, all we're getting is God, Guns and Country.

THX1138

An American Obama won every state that rich well educated American's live in McCain won every state badly educated poor hicks live in.

Now you lot might not like that fact but it is a fact & the GOP is not going to become electable until address this.

Dixon

Neuroskeptic
December 5th, 2008 12:33am

"Could anyone who has posted on this thread explain how they are any more qualified to comment on these matters than the average carrot?"

OK pal, starting with you. How are you "qualified" to talk on this topic?

Come on, give us an answer!

phil

Cabbie your quote------------ "An American and the rest of us righties are saying about Obama is nothing compared to what the left said about Bush during the last eight years, all we're seeing is a little payback for the ad hominem nature of the modern leftist"- ---- this is tongue in cheek isn't it? ---we are not into ner,nene ner ner are we ,or sticking our tongues out
.
I THINK I GOT LOST SOMEWHERE AS I THOUGHT I WAS ON A BALANCED BLOG RATHER THAN RIGHT WING! and as I am definitely not left wing perhaps I am afloat lost in space

I think you are aware of my feelings about"lefty's" and even pink liberals also the fact that I look only for common sense and fairness in criticism -my view is that the bitching that goes on and is called party political is a very costly process for those that want to see sensible solutions .sometimes the left of centre make good points and of course right of centre too I have even seen the despised BNP say the odd remark that has a basis in sense -If we are to continue in the same vein of sarcasm and hate as typified by our most prolific poster, I see very little chance for a peaceful and prosperous future -just more of the same internecine warfare that I am so fed up with .Cabbie you are worth more than that, as is Dixon and a few others here .

An American

THX1138
The liberal east and west coast were responsible for voting Obama in.
Your elitist snear at the rest of the country shows where you're coming from.
Republicans are the givers and Democrats are the takers...when there are more takes than givers...it will all collapse and the Messiah can't wait to bring in his new world order. He and his worshippers hate this country and its people...apparently, you do too.

Elizabeth

Says THX1138:

“An American Obama won every state that rich well educated American's live in McCain won every state badly educated poor hicks live in.

“Now you lot might not like that fact but it is a fact & the GOP is not going to become electable until address this.”

So an Obama worshipper who doesn’t know how to use an apostrophe or a comma tells us all how ‘well educated’ Obama’s supporters are compared with all the ‘badly educated’ Republicans.

You couldn’t make it up.

THX1138

An American the east & west coast generate all the money in your country. California alone is the 7th biggest economy in the world. They all voted for Obama by huge margins.

I don't see Google, Microsoft or Goldman Sachs based in any Red States.

I Love America just not the backwoods Christanist wingnut Sarah Palin lovin' America.

THX1138

Liz -They always attack your punctuation when they can't attack your point. C'mon which States did McCain win?

Unlike you coffin dodgers I have a job a post in a hurry.

An American

Peter,
So, let me get this straight. Republicans can only be successful if they move to the left...become Republicancrats?

The reason we lost the election was because we had McCain as our nominee who was in fact a Republicancrat. What an incredibly sorry campaign he ran. All he talked about was his war record from 45 years ago. He isn't a true conservative and didn't have the ability to express what this country and its people needed...yearned for.

We can win our country back by electing strong candidates with a simple, stong message that they will continue to support our Constitution and Capitalism...I know that Capitalism is a 'politically incorrect' evil word to use now days... our liberal press has made sure of that. But Capitalism is the reason the US was the most successful country this world has ever seen. Notice, I said was...

rk was concise and right on...dukas was depressing and right on.

JohnCarpenter

So, two former members of the Weather Underground think Obama is the most brilliant
political strategist since Disraeli?

What are the odds?

Has it occurred to these pundits that Obama has already whiffed on two easy layups: first, he actually believed it would be possible to withdrawer from Iraq in 16 months--which is jawdroppingly naeve (or if he didn't believe it he
scammed voters with the promise)--then he even more incomprehensibly contacted the Pakistani president after being elected but blew
off the India president.

Now there's a masterstroke of diplomacy.

Yeah,this guy has it ALL figured out.

An American

THX1139
Californicate is begging our Congress and US taxpayers to bail them out at the tune of 60,000,000,000 dollars. That's who voted for Obama.

And being young doesn't necesarily make you more intelligent...at least not you.
We excuse you to go deliver your pizzas.

phil

.What a sad lot of bitching straight after I wrote my last effort -do any of you think you are achieving anything ?do you in fact ever read any posts that are constructive?-The American would do far better by going into the kitchen and making her husbands tea instead of spilling bile over our pages and eating Thx ,s pizzas -go and cook for heavens sake -and any complaints about my spelling can be referred to my spellchecker

Elizabeth

“They always attack your grammar when they can’t attack your point.”

Not at all, THX1138. It’s just that if you’re the least literate person on the chatboard, you’re clearly the least qualified person to start saying which states or which people are and aren‘t well educated.

Just as you make the ignorant and spiteful assumption that the revenue generated by a state equates to the intelligence of its electorate, so you also make the ignorant and spiteful assumption that everyone here who doesn’t like Obama is a ‘coffin dodger’.

On the contrary, THX1138, I’m nowhere near pensionable age. So if you think all Obama heretics are just going to disappear over time, you’ve got another thing coming.

Conservative Cabbie

Phil

Telling An American to go cook? You should be ashamed, I jokingly accused you of being a sexist earlier, I hope I wasn't wrong.

Partisanship exists on both sides, have a read through some of the comments by Obama supporters about their view of the right's intellect and tell me how they are any better. Where is your admonition of them?

Obama is a blank canvas, he has no track record, his views are inconsistent. The right, and the left, are therefore going to imprint their views onto aforesaid canvas. For the left, they want to see change, for which there is very little evidence except rhetoric. For the right, they will view him as a radical because he himself has positioned himself as a radical (see the earlier quote).

We are in the twilight zone of the transition, speculation will happen, I really don't see the harm.

An American

Phil,
You dissapoint me.

You're a chauvinist...how sad.

But it fits with the rest of your assumptions.

Conservative Cabbie

Peter

An interesting, if somewhat overstated comment about the state of conservatism in America. your last paragraph was pure bunkum however.

To describe the GOP as a shambles on the verge of disintegrating is a bit much. The Republicans have been in worse binds than this. Republican identification had never been as low as it was following Watergate, a much more serious position than now, and yet they were only out of office for four years. Why should now be any different? I don't want to belittle Obama's achievement, but 52% of the vote, whilst impressive by modern standards, is hardly an en masse erosion of Republican support. all it means, is that for this one election, the GOP lost the independents.

You are right that Republicanism needs a more positive coherent message. It's not necessarily about the policies, it's about the tone. You are right too about the leader, another Reagan would be nice but they don't come around too often. I think a Palin or a Jindal can supply that leadership.

Maw

Sorry, but the states that vote blue are mostly the states the produce the most federal tax dollars versus consuming them:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1397.html

That's from 2004.

So please, let's just shelve the arguments about liberals sucking up tax dollars and not giving anything back.

Always Right

The coastal states are the richest and most populous. They do have some very intelligent residents. These rich states are also home to most of the poor and homeless. It's these people who take from society but give nothing in return. It's these people who think they have a right to money and "things" without having to work for them. Aslo residing primarily in these coastal states and big cities are dropouts, gangs, mafia and other criminals. The most desolate and poor reside in these states. They could go to small town america but there's not enough people to extort, rob, rape, sell drugs to etc to make any money. These are the well educated Obama voters THX1138 speaks of.

An American

Conservative Cabbie,
Thank you for coming to my defense. You have great insight into American politics and you're a very decent fellow.
Phil has on several occassions said how important it is for everyone to be able to express their varied political beliefs. I can't figure out if it is being a woman, an American or a conservative that angers him...perhaps all three.

Don't worry about me...it will take more than the Phils of the world to upset this very strong woman. I admire Melanie's writings and enjoy blogging with you bright Brits enormously.

An American

Its interesting how liberal Democrats use the poor and indigent...it never stops.

Liberals need people who have been told from birth that they are victims and that there is no way out of their victimhood.

These are the very people who make up that small percentage of victory for Democrats when each election year comes along.

After decades, these people never seem to understand they are being used and conned...no wonder politicans think their constiuents are all stupid.

The US media never showcases poor people when Democrats are in power...odd.

Anne

THX1138 said:
"An American Obama won every state that rich well educated American's live in McCain won every state badly educated poor hicks live in.

Now you lot might not like that fact but it is a fact & the GOP is not going to become electable until address this."

Do you not see the irony when the left attacks those greedy republican business owners, those rich people who should want to share their wealth? The major problem here is all the stereotyping that is going on.

I lived in California for 12 years and sent my three kids to public schools. They were accepting teachers with associate degrees to teach my kids! I then moved to one of those states you seem to think only contain badly educated hicks so that my kids would have better teachers. The teachers here mostly hold Masters degrees! I now have two Masters degrees and two bachelors degrees amongst my Republican kids.

You can't have it both ways. Are the republicans those greedy rich people? Or are they uneducated hicks? Or is it that most non believers will say whatever thing pops off the top of their heads to describe those believing republicans?

At least some posters are honest about their dislike for God fearing people.

Anne

Phil said:
but someone told me as a young person that if one didn't start well to the left ,one would never become a decent person -or words to that effect.

Was it this?
"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brain". Has been attributed to Sir Winston Churchill...but he didn't say it.

phil

Cabbie .I couldn't care less what gender a person has as far as opinions are concerned ,but when bitching is incessant I reserve the right to add my own .

The Obama supporters who write their nasty moans are not part of my way either,you never see me doing that ,what I ask for is cogent debate without rancour ,just as we do ,what I see is incessant accusations against a man that was elected by the vast majority of a country who have a free vote and it becomes rather boring to say the least

.You well know my leanings are to the Republican side ,but if they cant put up a team which is electable that is not my fault -let those real RIGHT winghers look to themselves and see where they have gone wrong ,as for the American lady ,she doesn't make my tea and I have observed her rude remarks in previous posts ,so her disappointment in me is of no consequence .If she prefers to be described as a pinkneck as opposed to red that is ok with me.

If I had offended you I would be concerned as I value your contributions and although we differ from time to time it is usually well thought out As for Mel.s opinions ,I have always given them great weight ,but I feel this subject is being done to death and she has much else to contribute ..my best regards to you .

phil

Anne -thank you ,I thought it was my grandpa :)
where have you been -you probably will not believe it but I have missed you -hope you are well .

phil

AN AMERICAN-"Phil has on several occasions said how important it is for everyone to be able to express their varied political beliefs. I can't figure out if it is being a woman, an American or a conservative that angers him...perhaps all three"

May I make this plain
1--I like ladies

2--I am very fond of both America and its citizens

3 I am a conservative voter

4- what I do not like is rudeness ,aggression when putting one,s opinions -I do not like left wing thought .nor right wing for that matter,but do not find it necessary to engage in gratuitous insults to make my opinion known -I have in the past agreed with some of your comments and complimented you on them ,but never received anything back from you ,and have objected to the remarks you make which do not conform to my more tranquil methods :)-SO WE MAY COME TO SOME ACCOMMODATION OR NOT AS YOU SEE FIT .

phil

Anne in case of mistaken identity -it is you ?
one of our previous prolific posters who has been noticeably missed .

Verity

Margaux 5:53 - Do you have a link?

It is so obvious that Obama didn't write his book that I wonder that people didn't pick up on it before. His life, other than being the lucky recipient of reverse discrimination that got him into Harvard and got him the editorship of the Harvard Review for which, oddly enough, he never wrote an article, Obama's life has been one of non-achievement. What were his outstanding high school activities? American students demonstrate their keen interest in achieving beginning in high school. Was he on the basketball team? Was he on the debating team? Was he a cheerleader?

Doesn't seem so. He seems to have passed through high school unnoticed, despite probably being the only half-black in the Hawaiian school.

What did he do in college that would give a clue about where he was going? Again, apparently nothing.

Then he became a political fixer and mixed around with shady characters, some of them prison alumnae.

And he wrote a best-selling book about his father? What? And never wrote anything else?

He spent 12 ineffectual years in the Illinois Senate voting "Present". This was an ambitious man? A man hungry to engineer change and find his place in the history books?

I don't think so. He is a completely empty character, which made him ideal, of course. Whoever spotted his potential as a front man was very clever.

An American

Phil,
This will most likely be my last post to you. You claim I have been rude...frankly, I thought my pizza retort was funny or was certainly ment to be.

Let's let the facts stand for themselves. Who is the rude one here?

Quotes from THX1138:

"I love America just not the backwoods Christanist wingnut Sarah Palin lovin' Americans."

"Unlike you coffin dodgers I have a job a post in a hurry"

"An American Obama won every
state that rich well educated American's live in McCain won every state badly educated poor hicks live in."

"james a bit bitter are we ? All the smart educated people in good jobs voted for Obama, all McCain/Palin got were the christianist wingnut, crystal meth smoking trailer trash vote from a few southern states".

Enough said.

phil

An American I am glad to see you were joking ,but if you read the post above here from the one known as the fragrant one ,you will see how easy it is to become disgusted by some other remarks ,.nothing to do with politics or solutions just plain hateful diatribe against a man she does not know -This column allows almost anything to be said in the interest of free speech but sometimes people like you and myself become the victims of return invective from other innocents because of this kind of "behaviour"
Just try this for flavour--------

"Doesn't seem so. He seems to have passed through high school unnoticed, despite probably being the only half-black in the Hawaiian school."
There have been other earlier comments about SEN O ,blacking up depending where he was speaking ,from the same person .

You surely do not approve of that do you ?,so do you wonder when I react to what I perceive to be gratuitous rudeness ? You know I have written to you before applauding some of the things you have written on other subjects ,so I know you are worth more than what has happened here .Finally you will with reflection see that when a man who is a normal conservative voter,and known as "polite phil" feels the need to speak up for a socialist ,something rather horrible must have taken place .

phil

An American -should have included this im last post -sorry -just take a glance of who verity is responding to -Margaux dec5 at 5.53 and ask yourself is this the sort of stuff we want to be involved in?I know we cant agree on everything ,which is why we debate but this sort is beyond the pale -well it is for me and I hope for you too .

judithod

Obama isn't as frightening as the "who" behind his candidacy and propulsion into the presidency. "Who" chose Obama? "Who" groomed Obama? Obama is not unintelligent, but he did not succeed so rapidly to this point on his own. Behind him are big money and power brokers.

An American

Phil,
Thank you for your reply. I'll try to contain myself in the future, but you must realize that I am frankly traumatized by what I see happening to my country. The opportunities are so great here. I am one of those people who has worked hard and benefitted...I love and appreciate my country.
I recently had a long talk with a good Republican friend who voted for Obama...at the end of our conversation, she said..."So what if we go socialist!"...that's what I'm dealing with and seeing here every day...sorry if I sometimes vent a bit too much.

The Fop

So in order to fool people into believing that he's a centrist, Obama will govern as a centrist when it comes to foreign policy and national security? Last time I checked, foreign policy and national security were 98% of the reason that the left despised George W. Bush. So now it turns out that some of the left's elder statesmen are willing to tolerate a "100 year occupation" of Iraq and the continuation of Bush's "police state", all in exchange for (drum roll) the creation of some kind of alternative energy industrial complex?

It seems that what Rudd and Jones are saying is that all those anti-war protests were a waste of time, as well as all those ACLU lawsuits aimed at putting an end to FISA. If these two guys really think that Obama is one of them and the best they'll ever get in the White House, and their expectations are this low, then this is indeed good news for the future of America.

Has the left actually come to the conclusion that America is a lost cause in regards to embracing their particular ideals? Has it finally sunk in that all these recent immigrants from places like China, Korea, India, Uzbekistan, etc, etc, who (like all the other waves of immigrants who preceded them) work 70 hours a week so they can buy a house in the suburbs, designer clothers and luxury vehicles, will never ever accept socialism the way the Europeans have?

Is this global warming nonsense the only consolation prize they think they might be able win? Are they aware that the Senate put together an enivornmental bill that never even made it to the Senate floor for a vote after the US Chamber of Commerce released an analysis of the enormous negative impact that this bill would have on every level of America's business community? And what do think will happen when temperatures start falling over the next several years, as meteoroligists predict? Do they think the American people are going to be more receptive to being lectured about climate change by the likes of Leo DiCaprio and Sheryl Crow?

If this is what the American left has been reduced to, then one can only wonder why the likes of Rudd and Jones didn't flee to Castro's worker's paradise a long time ago. But I think we already know the anwser to that question.

Trace

Verity,

Here is the info you were looking for about Obama's book "Dreams from My Father":

http://www.cashill.com/articles_all/recent.htm

Anne

Sorry Phil, I am not the Anne that you have missed. I have not commented here in ages.

The FOP...Ms. Benjamin of Code Pink tried the worker's paradise of Cuba and Castro ran her out. Maybe Jones and Rudd have learned from other leftists mistakes. Most leftist governments have already used and been rid of their "useful fools" by the time they are holding power, something Benjamin didn't understand.

I think Obama used a lot of leftists to get to power. Now he will either do what the leftists Jones and Rudd are saying or he will truly move to the center, as most Presidents do, if he is at all concerned about his legacy. Only time will tell what Obama is really made of.

I am so very weary of the left blaming everything on Bush, many times without true cause, that I do not want to end up being a hypocrite in treating the new President in the same way I have hated. However, I truly hope that Obama is worried about his legacy and not his past associates leftist agenda's. He is smart enough to know that they (his past associates) won't pay any price and in his position he has an enormous price to pay if his policies are abject failures.

Verity

An American, it happened in Britain. A tiny country that had an empire stretching to two-thirds of the world.

And we gave it up.

That was the beginning of the fascist left. The countries we abandoned, at their request, have lived on charity ever since.

Cut them off from "World Bank soft loans" and they would have to make their own way in the world.

This would be a good idea, but they cannot be advanced because of the blockage of all the "special interest" charity ticks who are now residing in the intestines of failed Africa - the richest continent in the world.

Of course, Freedom at Midnight was the right step because of the intelligence and inventiveness of the Indians, who would never - as has been proved - need charity money hosed into it.

Conservative Cabbie

Verity

The article Margaux was referring to was this one on American Thinker.

http://tinyurl.com/4pxtdu

Personally I don't buy it but is a legitimate literary analysis. Read it and make up your own mind.

Conservative Cabbie

An American

Phil is actually a decent guy, we've engaged in many constructive discourses, he just has a bit of an Obama blindspot. Do you have a gun? Perhaps you may want to drop it in to your next discussion with him, I'm sure he'll come round in a hurry.

Phil

Don't tell An American where you live!

Conservative Cabbie

Phil

You're absolutely right that we are treading water a bit on Obama, any real test will come post Jan 20th. I'm fascinated by his transition so far, plenty of sops to the moderates and little in the way of red flags to the right and not much red meat to the liberals. Obama has to set himself up as independent of the Democrats in Congress, a very unpopular bunch. I think his big fights in his first year are not going to be with the right, they are going to be with the congressional Dems and the far left of his party, the people who put him in the Whitehouse. It's going to be an interesting tightrope that he walks and it's going to be a fascinating first 100 days.

Conservative Cabbie

An American

You're point on the Democrats and the poor is spot on. They (and the left in this country too) have no intention of properly helping the poor, they only throw them a bone from time to time to keep them voting Democratic, the same is true of their identity politics. Keep their collective needy minorities sweet, remind them how crap life is for them but never ever fix their problem because they won't be needy anymore. The political left suffer from a moralistic and integrity deficit combined with a self-righteousness and arrogance. One wonders how they ever get girls!?!

phil

ANNE I thought I did not recognise the style :)-

Your comments are balanced and in fact very much what I believe and hope -I see him as a man with a social conscience who is learning what I alluded to in my earlier quote (from my granpa:))

An American :) now we can start again :)

Cabbie sense as usual thanks

phil

Conservative Cabbie I wouldn't mind An ,American finding out where I live she seems to be innately both sane and decent,in fact just more worried than me about O ,but I wouldn't relish the fragrant one coming round with blazing flags and her pals at 3 in the morning .

I understand people to the right of centre but she is so far right she may well meet herself coming back .I think I understand the adoration she receives (vice/versa)from frank p but I still do not get why you ever agree with her ,as you seem such a common sense type of guy without such social prejudices.She denies them of course but you only have to read her posts to see hatred oozing .I despise her for these views which is obvious .

CABBIE I have been a boxing fan since I was a small boy (one reason I knew a little about John Mccain )and I have always known that those that enter the ring filled with that hate and anger never produce the thought that is necessary to prevail against athletes who can think clearly,which is another reason I have no respect for the fragrant one .I actually have a friend called Ricky Hatton ,since he was a young amateur ,and the only time he went into the ring with that intense dislike for an opponent (Floyd Mayweather)-he lost both his cool and the contest .it was the only time I have ever seen him lose !!

As far as O is concerned I may well be wrong .but I concur with the views expressed above by Anne (definitely a different one .:) )-We will have to wait and see and keep our guards up .but if many of us are right ,what a better world we will have .

An American

Its true it will take some time to see what Obama is all about.

He is one of three things or perhaps a combination.

First and foremost, I see him as an opportunist. He has used and is being used by everyone around him to get where he is.

Second, I believe he is a socialist at heart. His past associations and writings certainly lead most people to believe that.

Third, he is ambitious, intelligent and has a very lofty view of himself. He possibly could try to govern from the middle so that someday his visage will be included on Rushmore.

Throw in the Muslim and Black Power background...I notice he is no longer attending a church... and what do we have?

Someone we will have to watch very closely.

Conservative Cabbie,
We have purchased two guns recently. We don't like having them around, but are worried about our future with recent daytime house break-ins with our economy in trouble and protecting ourselves from any future internal or external attacks. Will that do me in with Phil?

ps. the only girls liberals get are the homely ones like Hillary and Michele.

An American

Verity,
I enjoy reading your posts. I didn't understand your last 'Freedom at Midnight' paragraph. Please explain. Thanks

phil

AN AMERICAN
your guns do not worry me at all-I understand your concern but your enjoyment of the fragrant one,s posts certainly do :) ---.Don't mistake her as a person with a British sense of humour ,you can bet your life she means what she says and her views would be despised in any newspaper less liberal than this one ,in fact I do not think they would be published -We Brits know what our sense of humour is and this is not it .

.Most Brits would object vociferously to the racial remarks she continually makes about O ,despite their political agendas
.The remarks about O blacking up for predominately African American meetings are reminiscent to me of DER STURMER cartoons about the Jews of Germany in the thirties -if she wants to call him stupid ,thick ,unable to write ,so be it , I think discerning people will reverse that but these racial remarks are not acceptable to me and if no one else will say so I will -

I have never seen you making such remarks andI don't think I have misjudged you have I ? --I hope you will look carefully at what she says before you give your approval -gosh I am writing a lot to you today-you are making your mark on us Brits .

An American

Phil,
I don't have a racist bone in my body. If Obama had been a conservative....I would have voted for him as would have most Republicans. President Bush's cabinet had the most minorities and women by far, than any President before him...and most of them stayed with him throughout his presidency.

I do believe that if Obama does go centrist and not do further damage to our country, that US blacks will have a reason to be proud which would be a good thing for them and the US.

Unfortunately, I don't believe this will happen. I hope I'm wrong.

I don't agree with everything that everyone posts here...of course... including Verity, but she is extremely well informed about many subjects and I always read her. She has a different take on things.

phil

An American
"Phil,
I don't have a racist bone in my body."

I have never doubted that,;it is our "friend" that I find so objectionable -the incessant sarcasm and putting down of so many people without ever suggesting anything constructive. her tongue/pen is like Dr strangelove,s arm -many here object to it as you will have seen but it does not deter her

. I debate here with all sorts of opinions even with members of the BNP (our ultra right wing party )and never hear such loathsome statements as this person makes -I once remember saying to Adam B whose name I hope you will recognise , that he should ignore one or two who made hatefilled remarks but he explained to me that if he did that some would believe the views were acceptable -HE IS RIGHT -we have free speech here so she can continue ,and I will also continue to point out how despicable some (not all) of her remarks are -including her foul accusations of William Ayers alleged murders of which she has no proof because they did not happen , she runs away every time she is challenged and will not withdraw her accusations .

I had never heard of that man until this election furore started ,and I do not support any form of terrorism ,but I do defend those subject to scurrilous accusations without substance .Sen O was scarred by those scandalous comments and I began to check the information as I was still swaying towards Sen Mccain -it turned out they were appalling lies -check for yourself -this is what I object to not her desire to be right wing ,that is her privilege as it is yours -

I know this can become very boring but so is the defence of free speech ,and knowing well of the history of the nineteen thirties I will not fail the memory of those that lost it and with it their lives .

I feel proud and privileged to be able to contribute to these columns without fear or favour and I do not want to be demeaned by association with people who write like verity ,so sorry if this is taking up too much of your day ,it is of mine too.

Verity

An American - Freedom at Midnight was the dramatic term for India's independence on 15 August 1947. Jarwarlahal Nehru, India's first prime minister and a handsome man with great presence, gave his speech "Freedom at Mighnight" floodlit on a parapet of (I think it was) the Red Fort in Delhi on the night of the 14th running up to midnight. If you ever see a newsclip of it, it was impossibly glamourous and dramatic.

Unfortunately, Nehru had been too much infuenced by Gandhi and he shied away from promoting capitalism - wanting communalism. I think it was also he who started the "non-aligned nations" meme, which actually meant, nations aligned with communism. When he died, his daughter, Indira, who had been prominent in the fight for freedom, was elected prime minister and continued the destruction of capitalism no matter how it chafed the many brilliant minds in India. Rajiv, her son, was elected when she was murdered by one of her Sikh guards and he wasn't so tinged with all that freedom fighting and began to establish capitalism in India, until he was murdered by a terrorist.

Since then, India has raced up the league tables.

Anyway, Freedom at Midnight was the phrase that ushered India into the world of independent nations.

An American

Verity,
Thank you for your post. It was enlightening.

I'm well aware of Indira's rule, as well as her sons. But I was not aware of the political history of Nehru.

Of course, most Americans know Gandhi by reading or seeing the movie 'Gandhi' and his non-violent political movement.

Our own Gandhi was Martin Luther King. King preached non-violence but as far as I know, believed in capitalism.

Unfortunately, many of King's followers have forgotten what this great man's message was all about. Now we have the black power movement of which Obama's former church prostelized.

Anyone who reads what this black power movement is about should be enormously worried.

I may be naive, but I think that most black Americans will not be taken in by this radical group. We now have a large black middle class...they're successful and content with their lives...why should they?

Thanks for the history lesson.

THX1138

An American-"Californicate is begging our Congress and US taxpayers to bail them out at the tune of 60,000,000,000 dollars" - Yeah and last time I looked the Govenator was a Republican. Your country is in the s**t with it's banks on their knees , it's car industry begging for a hand out; the largest number of Americans in a generation jobless and a National debt in the trillions and you still think your party has the right idea's. Give me a break. The GOP lost because it had made a right royal F**k up of running the country and everyone outside the wingnut bubble knows it.

Verity

An American, frankly, if I'd been there at the time, I would have wanted to slap Gandhi's smug little face. And going around with that spinning wheel - preaching, in effect, that India stay backward and every home should weave its own cotton! He himself undertook to weave one square inch of cotton every day. What a hero!

He must have been the most backward-looking leader in the history of the world.

They got their freedom at midnight, in that ringing phrase, and then wasted the next 60 years as a "non-aligned" - read "Soviet-
leaning" nation. They actually had Five Year Plans. Now they're free at last, free at last, thank the Lord Vishnu they're free at last - and they're galloping forward at a dizzying pace.

Re your other point, I'm certain there are millions of welfare black people will be taken in by the radical group. Or at least, won't bother to think about it, but will go for whichever party is going to bribe them with the most money.

That's why I have started preaching on other threads that the only way to save Britain - and, I believe, the US - is to disenfranchise the welfare sector, which produces no wealth. Once there are no votes in the welfare sector, it will become impossible for politicians to bribe them and it will shrink through lack of funding.

No representation without taxation.

phil

An American-at last we have received a post with a content that is both informative and without sarcasm and I am happy to acknowledge that -perhaps my remarks have made a difference and we will now see the skills that verity possesses,rather than what preceded it -I expect the worst but hope for the best even if she doesn't read what I write :)
foolish me I wrote this before her post arrived about the" welfare blacks" and it must have got lost - when will I ever learn ?-for what its worth I apologise to all the black people .we are not all like that

beloved

THX1138 An American,, Obama won every state that rich well educated American's live in McCain won every state badly educated poor hicks live in.
Now you lot might not like that fact but it is a fact & the GOP is not going to become electable until address this.

Th,

Hmmm,....the statistics show the opposite and more. County Election maps show high demographics of welfare recipients voted for Obama, also a murder and crime rate ten times higher than in comparison to McCain voting counties where murder rates in some counties are non-existent. Law abiding taxpayers who contribute to society voted for McCain. Yes, you are right-- wealthy snobs that look down on "soccer moms" in politics supported Obama, but those snobs are not as numerous as the free loaders. The problem will not be fixed until deadbeats stop being deadbeats, or until we stop rewarding them. Free Americans were simply outnumbered in the election by government enslaved Americans. The good news is that Free Americans hold the purse strings because government cannot create new wealth. They have to negotiate with us. There is nothing more frustrating than attempting to confiscate earnings from PO'd Americans. Government revenues shrink inverse to unjust taxes. Nature is funny that way.

b