The real 'goldene medina' for American Jews

unseen

Michael Oren makes an error: Kavalier & Clay is mainly set in 1939-44, with the last couple of chapters in the 1950s. It isn't set in 1948 at all.

Joshua

It's not just an ambivalence (at best) about Israel but also their own Jewish identity. Much has been made recently about the amounts Jews in America give to charity. Most will strongly suspect that virtually all of that money is donated to local Jewish or Israeli charities. Nothing could be further from the truth, at least as regards one important aspect. According to figures published a few years ago, 40% of all large gifts to charity in the U.S. are made by Jews. However, virtually all of those gifts are given to non-Jewish charities. As a result, many Jewish charities are in deep trouble. Now I am not saying that American Jews should not give money to non-Jewish charities, or even that those charities should not account for the bulk of the donations. That they give so little to Jewish charities, though, is an indication of how little they (and by "they" here, I am obviously referring to wealthy Jews, Jews of great influence) are concerned about their fellow Jews.

Alex Bensky

There are Irish groups that have for years attempted to undermine American foreign policy--not infuence it, but undermine it. There may be articles and books asserting Irish-American dual loyalty, but I haven't seen them. Somehow it's the Jews who fall under that accusation and no one else. I'm sure there's some innocent reason for that, whatever it may be.

I am Jewish, American, and a strong supporter of Israel. I'd be pro-Israel even if the Israelis were Vietnamese, or for that matter Taiwanese.

Esrubilsky

Melanie this is spot on. These facts imply that in the longer term Israel will no longer be able to rely on the US to guarantee and buttress its right to exist (if the politically important jewish vote cares less and less about Israel as the older generation passes away politicians inevitable will do so as well). Therefore the solution is to quickly reach a peace agreement with the Palestinians. While the creation of a Palestinian state will not in one fell swoop solve the region's problems, the creation of such a state, legitimate and internationally recognized will take away much of the venom out there against Israel. It will make Israel a more 'normal' state thus improving its prospects for long term survival.

David

"the subtle anti-Zionist message of the hit movie You Don’t Mess with the Zoha2

Mwahahahaha.

Best laugh I've had all day. Cheers.

Brian Moshe

You raise a very important series of issues in your thoughts above, Melanie.

Recently I read Michael Chabon's 'The Yiddish Policemen's Union' and have to say that I was unaware it was an anti-Israel theme. It seemed to be a dystopian novel that was based on the imaginary premise that Jews had been given a leasehold territory in part of Alaska, with if I remember correctly, the lease about to run out. I found the story ploddingly hard work but sometimes highly original.

I am currently in the USA and belong to Reform Jewish congregations both here and in England. In England I get the impression that most of the regular attenders at services are staunchly pro-Israel and loyally ignore the way that Reform Judaism is viewed by the Orthodox establishment in Israel.

Those Jews I have met who live in the city where I live when in England that are not friends of Israel are all academics associated with the university.

Here in the USA I have never met anyone in our 500 family congregation who wasn't wholeheartedly in support of Israel. People give to Israeli causes and people regard a trip to Israel as a highlight of their lives. They are, however, almost totally cut off from the European experience of Jews. A few very elderly members of our congregation came from Eastern Europe. When they have gone their experiences will virtually die with them.

That wonderful, idealised US picture that you display above is from a golden age of immigration into the USA. A generation or so after this picture was painted the Jewish refugees aboard the passenger liner St.Louis were refused sanctuary in the USA by President Roosevelt. The ship returned them to Hitler's Germany and they perished.

Every Jew needs to know this story and if/when things go wrong again one day I expect some of today's Jewish enemies of Israel will be only glad to disembark in Israel.

HarleyDavidson

American, Canadian, or British Jews are citizens of each of their individual countries and their religion happens to be Jewish. The nation each lives inside, whether subtly or not, does more to influence that individual than the religion one happens to belong. One lives the joys and cares and woes of their nation 24/7/365. Matter of fact, I've spoken to six Arabic individuals, male and female, who find themselves after traveling back to their home countries more Canadian than they even realized before traveling back home. That surprised me.

Israelis, on the other hand, are citizens of Israel. In matters of the heart no American, Canadian, or British Jew can possibly feel the beating heart and soul of Israel anymore than I can feel or even understand what it feels like to live inside of Melaine's world.

Strange as it may seem there are many, many non Jew who feel more of a connection to Israel than American, Canadian, or British Jews. Because I believe we connect with the nation of Israel first but without the filter of religion to hinder of view.

Fabio P.Barbieri

Esrubilsky - if I were Melanie, I would be extremely angry. That is not what she said, and you do not even notice that her point was that the deep ambivalence about Israel predated the war of 1967, let alone the invention of a Palestinian nationality. As for Israel surviving the twin catastrophes of a wholly independent Palestinian state and the terminal American disaffection you postulate, well, do the words "inevitable bloodbath" mean anything to you?

Ben Z

Yes, so far America is a "Goldine Medina" for Jews and many more non Jews. I have always said the smartest Europeans left town for the USA. I thank my grandpa every time I visit his grave in honor and tell him how glad I am that he left Czarist Russia. But, Israel is very important to many American Jews. Sometimes just giving money is not as a important as the Jewish "heart" feels. To me, Israel is a "barometer" of not only what is in store for us Jews, but for the Western free world. The USA knows this better than anybody..the same guys that attack Israel did 9/11. The older American Jews are very much in support of Israel, although I worry a little about our Jewish youth. Has there ever been a time in 4000 years of Jewish history when some nation, King or Dictator was somewhere in the world NOT harrassing or killing Jews? "Chosen?"...let someone else be Chosen for a while!

Joe Strummer

Going slightly off-topic but on a similarly theme of dual loyalties. Currently in Scotland, there is a pressure pervading that if you don't buy into the SNP's ( Scottish National Party ) demands for even more political concessions from Westminster or any other of their uber-nationalist hare-brained schemes which weaken the Union then you are depicted as " not really fully Scottish " by dissenting.

W. B. Harris

As FDR efforts failed under all that is being discussed now – no one dared mention how this spiraling economy stopped in his era – WAR!

A very poor way of ‘bailing out’ the economic situation then and now… but it may happen. Whether it’s a world war or war within each country between the haves and have nots.- it's looming.

Wilhelm

Joe Dumber squeeks

''Going slightly off-topic''

Yes you are off topic.

Joe Dumber squeeels

''which weaken the Union then you are depicted
as not really fully Scottish ''

Well if the cap fits, wear it.

''Scottish National Party demands for even more political concessions from Westminster or any other of their uber-nationalist hare-brained schemes which weaken the Union''

You mean like Londonistan demanding political concessions from Brussels for their nutty hair brained schemes which weaken the European Union.

Joe Dumber hoist by his own petard. Hilarious.

Wilhelm

Going slightly off topic but on a similarly theme of dual loyalities. In Scotland you have the self loathing Scot, people who actually believe in running Scotland from a different country England, how nutty is that ?

The best example of the self hating Scot is Gordon Broon, he said to Diane Sawyer of American ABC news,

'' I come from north Britain ''

Gordon Broon is soo ashamed of Scotland, he couldnt bring himself to say the very word.

And the cockk crowed 3 times when Gordon Broon denied his own country, what a Judas, eh ?

Wilhelm

Oh dear, an erroneous comment from Joe Dumber, Ho Hum.

Andre

HarleyDavidson - you're spot on, thanks. 30 years ago, just out of my teens, I spent a year in Israel and what I found there has guided me the rest of my life. From a no-hope dosser from a poor area of England's north east I learnt that no matter where you came from or what had happened to you the future was yours to grasp and shape. I am not Jewish but a practicing catholic. Christ for me will always be a Jew and the practices of my religion deeply rooted in Jewish tradition. Israel's struggle is my struggle. Her victory over the forces of nihilistic terrorism is the wider triumph of good over evil. Israel-Britain- America, we fight this war together. Israel is not simply a contrived nation state or a religious anomaly but it is an idea that the people of God can live their lives and their faith in the land where God first spoke to man. I still think fondly of the street markets of Tiberias and the fish lakes of the Yizreel and I pray again for the peace of Jerusalem and a country I came to love as much as my own. You do not have to be jewish to be an Israelite - slavin' for the bread, sir.

sean

"the subtle anti-Zionist message of the hit movie You Don’t Mess with the Zohan" - David

Even the Palestinians in that movie spoke mock Yiddish - not a semitic phoneme throughout the whole film!!!

The Israel in that film was an Israel as imagined by Jews who know nothing about the place and like it even less...

Tony

I read somewhere recently that Madoff was a conduit for huge sums flowing to Israel, fronted by Mossad and that Comrade Obambi's guys have pulled the plug to be able to nestle up to the Arabs where he is soon to make a speech. Anyone else hear this rumour? Or should I upgrade my reading material to 'The Guardian'....sic

elixelx

Khomeini said that he would not mind losing 10million Iranians so long as he could inflict pain on Israel...was that a dual loyalty?
Bismarck expelled the Catholics from Germany because they were sending tithes to Rome...was that a dual loyalty?
In fact any religionist may be accused of dual loyalty since he has one foot in his native land and one foot in his confessional edifice...
But that's God and Caesar..what about Caesar and Caesar?... because THAT is what is being mooted about non-Israeli Jews, that you CANNOT be British or American or Zimbabwean AND YET feel a loyalty toward Israel.
And then, back to square one, comes that old old question--can you be a Jew without loving Israel?
The answer, in this corner, is NO, YOU CANNOT! Not so long as you wish for a "Next Year In Jerusalem"!
So be prepared to be called a traitor, a turncoat, a snake in the grass...because while we may fight and die for countries outside Israel, ALL JEWS crave that their final six feet of earth be in the Promised Land.

phil

Some very moving posts here particularly from Andre and Brian M .
So often the question of where one,s loyalties arise,and is especially upsetting when the overwhelming majority of British Jews are fiercely patriotic

-Reasoning people can well understand the affection a Brit feels towards Canada ,Australia and many other nations that came to our help in the second world war,it is no different to the affection for Israel felt by Jewish people . We are Brits and nothing else !

abc

According to the Israeli papers, Israeli charities have apparently been especially badly hit by Madoff.

Joe Strummer

- Wilhelm

Get back to me when you can explain yourself properly in our Queen's English.

Raymond in DC

Tony, it's unfortunate that for you there's got to be a "Mossad conspiracy" behind everything. It is unfortunately true that many victims of Madoff's scheme were major donors to Jewish and Israeli institutions, some in the US. When they or their foundations collapsed, their beneficiaries suffer. Universities, medical centers, organizations caring for the poor and myriad other institutions are all paying the price.

Robert

An Israeli relative has told me that a bunch of Palestinians just shot twenty Israeli children. All are dead. This is what the Jews of Israel are being forced to suffer, this is what the corrupt Palestinian swine are doing. Why can't the West see this? When will people open their eyes?

Dave

Robert. I can't find any details about such a terrible story. It would surely top every news bulletin were it true?

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Esrubilsky: NOTHING will take away ANY of the venom out there against Israel. There already IS a Palestinian state, and its been there for 87 years. Ever hear of Jordan? In 1948, the U.N. voted to partition Palestine, as it was then called, voted to partition what was left of what the Balfour Declaration said was supposed the JEWISH homeland, after Great Britian hacked off 80% of it to create Transjordan, into Jewish and Arab states. The Arab states STILL attacked Israel. In 2000, Ehud Barack offered Yasser Arafat, may he rot in hell, 97% of what the "Palestinians" said they wanted. Arafat went and started the Intafada. The Israelis CONTINUE to be willing to make concessions for peace that no other country on the planet would DREAM of making, continue to be ready to give the "Palestinians," who are culturally and linguistically and every other way ARABS, and who could perfectly well have been taken in, any time in the past 60 years, by any one of the Arab states in the Middle East or North Africa, their SECOND autonomous homeland, any time the "Palestinians" agree to quit killing Jews. But the Kassams continue to fall. Nothing succeeds like success, and the minute the "Palestinians" have Judea and Samaria, they will be demanding Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. They don't want a SECOND autonomous homeland, they want Israel wiped off the map.

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Robert: I agree with Dave. I don't remember any news reports of any such massacre. By the way, and off-topic, I wish all the Christian participants on this blog a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. I wish all the Jewish participant on this blog a Happy Chanukah.

Bogoslovkaya I

Robert, in the old days the west was warm harted to any people who is suffering, but right now, the modern west is diffirent, political incorrectness, they are very liberal towards everything, most of them are cold left wing liberals who think the same, dress the same eat the same and don't go to the church, they can stand and watch and don't say anything!
Haraam

john doe

Miranda Rose Smith: What you said above cannot be repeated enough. It needs to be hammered home to the haters and fools who believe the lies they are constantly fed with by the media.
And a happy festive season to you and all the other commenters here.

Joe Strummer

Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah to everyone. A peaceful time for all hopefully.

An American

Miranda Rose Smith,
It always amazes me when I read comments from the likes of Robert...is he naive, ignorant or just a jihadist in sheep's clothing?
Thank you for your articulate comments.

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear An American: You're welcome.
Dear John Doe: The haters and fools need to be reminded of something else. They need to be reminded that what the Islamofascists do to Jews, they will, given half a chance, do to THEM. Mr. Useful idiot, Mr. Sucker for propaganda about the Palestinians being driven from their ancient homeland, take as good long look at what the Arab states were bragging that they were going to do to Jews, in May of 1967. That's what they'll do to you if you let Israel be destroyed, G-d forbid. Happy Holiday to All.

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Joe Strummer: With 60 rockets hitting Israel yesterday, it doesn't look like it will be a peaceful Christmas.

Joe Strummer

I said hopefully, Miranda. We can only hope for better times ahead at this time of the year. Best wishes to you and yours.

Ronnie

Wilhelm, try to remember that you are not posting on The (Glasgow) Herald comments pages now, and grow up.

Joe Strummer's point, if I may support him, was that many people seem 'ambivalent' about their identity in the eyes of those who are more certain and, shall we say, enthusiastic.

I am reluctant to get into the case of Jewish people's individual feelings about Israel. I'm not Jewish and will not presume. I just want to make the general point that Mel's piece says more about her than it does about the subjects of her post. She has a strong view and all must share it or they are guilty of ambivalence, regardless of the almost infinite range of personal circumstances that inform their views and feelings.

Similarly, Wilhelm, you may be one of those who regard Scots who do not support Scottish independence and the SNP as being ambivalent about their Scottishness.

I regard that outlook as childish and as meaningless as asking someone which end of Hampden park they occupy during an old firm match.

hadrian

The idea of 'Jewish conspiracies' pulling strings behind all the major events on the world stage ( or even some of them!) is just as risible as seeing RC Jesuit plots behind every or dominating the media. I have no time for Roman Catholicism but to imbue any group of men with nigh on mystically omnipotent powers is ridiculous. Mankind is just too blundering, clumsy and divided to work such slick all embracing evil-thank God! Still, no doubt secret coteries do exist and can to a limited extent inflict real damage or influence things. Anyway, the real pervasive zeitgeist today in the West, anyway, is secular humanism of the type that predomimatesin the BBC. It pretty well exccrates all religions equally unless they're so syncrenistic or desperate to dance to the humanistic tune they can be ticked ok for 'offending' nobody! Their determination to impose this levelling outloook on all and to understand all religions as inclucating- in the process reducing and eviscerating the distinctive truth content of all religions to irrelevance- is what makes them refuse to see the threats in violently inclined creeds!

Ronnie

For God's sake Hadrian, its not the Jesuits, its Opus Dei. Open your eyes man!