The untold Christmas story

darsan.

the reference to violence between christians and hindus has been misrepresented as inall campaigns for conversion.the poorest section of tribals , not religiously affiliated have been robbed of their land and livlihood by christia converts with the muscle powrer of the church . christians rule three states , ethnically cleansed of hindus. they are the richest and most owerful in one state and economically most prosperous. just as the labor govt.is anti-christian the secular opinion in india is anti-hindu. the congress cannot exist wiyhout the vote bank politics. the re is just no voice to speak for hindus.

Alex Bensky

The western media carry little, if anything, about the continual persecution of the Copts in Egypt. Our local excuse for a newspaper has carried a story or two about Iraqi Christians but that's mostly because we have a sizable population here in Detroit. Israel taking land, whether they pay fairly for it or not, is an international outrage requiring UN condemnation. Palestinians Muslims seizing land from Christians goes unreported.

In October, 2001 a couple of dozen Christians were murdered in church in Pakistan and the Boston Episcopalian bishops responded--by picketing the Israeli consultate.

Now, I am sure that all this is simply objective and aboveboard reporting. If I were cynical, and not the trusting and credulous soul that I am, I'd ask myself what is it about Israel that prompts this sort of reporting? Then I'd rephrase the question: what does Israel have a lot of that most other countries have little of, and...if I were a cynic...I might come up with a reasonable answer.

This may not be the blood libel but it's close enough. And so much for brave reporters bringing their readers the facts.

J Ojelua

The media don't write much about the abuse in Africa, those people destroy cemeteries even dead people can't sleep peacefully, they don't report anything, look the Italian nun who worked in East Africa for more then 20 years in the hospital, she cure sick people, help children, she being murder they hardly mentioned her, it is shame!

W. B. Harris

The ''Combating Defamation of Religions'' resolution that was being proposed by the Organization of the Islamic Conference, which would have been used to silence religious minorities, including Jews and Christians lost support on the 18th of December, 2008 at the United Nations.

December 18th's vote in the United Nations General Assembly this year, shows a continued and dramatic erosion of support for the resolution: 86 ''Yes'' votes, 53 ''No'' votes, and 42 ''Abstain'' votes.

The U.N. General Assembly vote came just one month after an important earlier vote when the erosion of support became apparent.

Melanie –thank you for all your efforts to inform us that what we don’t hear from our liberal media people not only will hurt us but worse yet, kill us. So be careful people, stay alert – or we’ll loose everything.

So maybe we better become more familiar to the real Christmas Story, that JESUS came to save us all…even those hate the Christians and Jews – but for those who never embrace the TRUTH… judgment is around the corner for them… not matter how tough they think they are!

Enjoy especially this Christmas & Hanuakkah... for we don't know what tomorrow may bring.

An American

The Western media is composed almost entirely of liberal, leftist socialists. They are simply following their agenda. Anti-religion, anti-democracy, anti-capitalism, anti-west and unbelievably..anti-free speech.
The world is finally waking up to these facts...I believe that the enormous power that the media once had is in a major decline.
If we continue to lose this ongoing battle for our freedoms...freedom of speech and non-govermental media will be the first to go.
How ironic...

Agha Ali Arkahn

darsan: Hindus are respected in Canada. Most religions are. Hindus teach love, not death. Hindus and Christians must stay together in mutual respect.

Tahlina D

Left wing liberals think, to be extremist is very romantic think, and they think it is attractive, why they don't try a week to live like them? if you are woman you have to clean, cook, stay home, go to the church, no wearing skimpy clothes, no going to the office work or schools, listen your husbands, arrangement marriage, no boy friends, wear burka, no cycling,

and the men, no working in the BBC, no reading Guardian, don't go out to have fun, no football watching, taking drugs or drinking, they will be force to go to the church every day, share their money with all the Christians!
it would not be easy! they have to stop promoting extremism it doesn't matter where they from, if they try a week how to live like that they will understand it is not easy!

Bill Corr

Christians are suffering throughout the Middle East. Read William Dalrymple's FROM THE HOLY MOUNTAIN.

If everyone who cared about this issue wrote courteously to the Welsh buffoon in Canterbury even HE would be aware of it.

Raymond.douglas

I notice the good old BBC, was continuing its Anti-Israel propaganda via this donkey ride re-tracing the journey of mary and joseph.They found some palestinian christian minister, who, yes,blamed israel for the problems palestinian christians were suffering!Change the record BBC!

Rob-NY

Too be fair, Christians are being honoured in one and only Islamic city this year...Baghdad.

Tas Walker

Thank you Melanie for bringing this to our attention. I can only think that the western media, which is controlled by the left, also hate Christians.

Oliwagino Alefaua Yihiri

The left wing liberal terrorists are the only people to watch-out now it doesn't matter if they are in the media or anywhere else, they think they are doing good reports, but they are racist, they like one race, but not the other, that is racism, and they show bad pictures from Africa, like they are not bad pictures in the west to see, you see BBC reporter going to Africa reporting circumcision ceremony, but most of the time they report false, they don't understand the culture and the languages, it is disgusting to see horrible pictures for ten minutes like poor old lady with flies around begging, Media needs to get real! they are the ones responsible showing bad pictures from Africa

Ronnie

An American, I have three questions for you.

Is there anything other than a 'leftist socialist'?

What evidence do you have to support your thesis that the power of the western media is in 'major decline'?

Where does the huge media empire of Rupert Murdoch fit into your notion of the unchallenged leftist dominance of the western media?

Irma W

Common Ronnie, wake-up, Don't mention Rupert Murdoch, western media hides a lot of true things around the world, yes they mention Britney Spears shaved her hair, Madonna getting divorce things like that but not much what is going on the third word.

Ronnie

Irma W, that's because we are to be entertained, distracted, sedated. That is when we are not being misled. More and more instant media and yet less and less information and adult analysis.

The mass media has become the Circus Maximus of our age. My God, we even get reality TV to help us escape our reality.

SMaharaj

It is of grave concern to all self respecting Hindus the matter of gross misreporting and misrepresentation of Christian-Hindu clashes in India , in not just the Indian secular press but also the Western media which relies on Indian secular sources for their news about the Indian sub-continent.

Hindu Dharma( erroneously alluded to in the West as Hindu religion) is the most liberal. inclusivist and accepting of all spiritual traditions. Christians have lived amongst and been acepted by the Hindu peoples for milennia. There have been no purges, pogroms and genocide of Christians and Christian converts in the midst of Hindu society.
What then are we to make of the latest reports by the Christian Church and the media about Hindu violence against Christian communities in India?

The answer lies in the strategic thrust and aggressive push of the Christian conversion agenda by the Christian Evangelical Churches heavily funded and trained by Christian institutions in Europe and America.

A substantial document called the Joshua Project has been drafted by the World Christian Establishment identifying in minutest details the social, class and economic structure of every single village and small town in India .This has been melded together with a clear strategic and operational plan to convert at least 25 per cent of Indian society to Christianity within the next 50 years. This is causing much disruption and disharmony within towns, villages, tribes and communities ,including families. The converted Indian is educated and encouraged to shower contempt upon and act with disdain and provocation towards his Hindu former brethren. The normally meek, pacifist Hindu then retaliates in frustration, anger and helplessness . The extremely powerful Indian secular media ( owned in many instances by religious organisations awash with foreign money)seizes upon the events and presents them in an extremely perverted manner. The even more powerful Christian church media in the West uses such incidents to champion their right to aggressively convert ( under the pretence of championing human rights) and as a consequence to destroy the indigenous fabric of societies ( of which India is the last largest remaining) which dare to be different and to see worship and spirituality from a different viewpoint.

Melanie Phillips should carefully research any references she makes to the Hindu community in India and outside of it before she continues the charade about which she so rightly lambasts others

Barina Alhayli

Extremist or militia wherever you call it, are harassing the Christians and even there own liberal Muslims in the first world, in Britain self made extremist gangs are beating harassing, assaulting fellow prisoners, because they want to convert them their believes, the schools are the same, the British authorities don't want to say anything, but it is the gang culture, always excuse, I don't know why we have to pretend nothing is happening in this part of the world but pointing fingers to other part of the world

leo solomon

Just entering a few facts into the equation.
The Palestinian Christians ,despite their commitment to Israel's demise-reflected by their presence in and even leadership of terrorists groups,are being attacked and driven out of their areas in the west bank(especially Bethlehem) and Gaza by both Fatah and Hamas.
While the population of Christians in the west bank and gaza is declining rapidly -it is steadily rising in Israel.The number of christians in higher education ,in Israel, is proportionately the highest of any other ethnic or religious grouping-including the Jews.

An American

Ronnie,
Let me address you first about my correct comment on the demise of the US media.

For example...one of our largest newspapers, the New York Times has gone from $47.00 per stock share in April 2004 to $5.34 per share in Nov. 2008. It's advertising revenues were down 20% in December alone. The NY Times October profits were down 51%. Standard and Poors lowered the Times bond rating to "Junk".

The main reason for the NY Times problems is the far left agenda that it's owner and board have tried to stuff down American's throats...and they are paying a big price for it. I can't wait until this socialist rag goes under...I along with many other Americans will raise a cheer when it does.

The Denver Rocky Mountain News is advertising for a buyer with no takers and will probably be folding up in early 2009. The LA Times is in financial trouble as well. These are some of the US's largest newspapers...Need I go on?

NBC, ABC and CBS are also in financial trouble. NBC has cancelled many of its shows and will be having shorter viewing time...just to stay afloat.

All major US TV stations are losing revenues and viewer in droves except for Fox which is still viable.

I don't know where Murdock stands politically elsewhere in the world except that the US Fox is middle-right politically and is doing well compared to other leftie TV stations.

People who are politically right-middle are fed up...and are not watching or reading the far-left's hogwash. And these socialists still don't get it...

So...I conclude that not all Americans are as stupid and ill-informed as our media believes us to be.

It's true that calling a socialist a leftist is an oxymoron. But on the other hand, is it fair to compare socialist Sweden to Nazi Germany?...and yes, I do believe that Sweden is a socialist country but there are degrees in socialism.

With our new socialist President Obama...we'll soon know what this is all about...unfortunately.

Hope this answered your questions.

An American

SMaharaj,
It's interesting that you take on Christians as the aggressors after the recent Muslim jihadist attack against innocent Indian citizens and foreign visitors in Mumbai.

I don't see any Christians killing and maiming innocents in India...only Muslims.

If Christianity can help your country get rid of its disgraceful caste system...then I say, it's all for the better for your people.

You need to realize who your REAL enemies are. Christ is not among them.

An American

Ronnie,
It is true that calling a socialist a leftist can be construed as an oxymoron...but, wouldn't you agree that there are degrees of socialism? For example, comparing modern day Sweden to Nazi Germany doesn't seem quite fair.

Some of our largest major newspapers in LA, Chicago, Denver and elsewhere are in real financial trouble here. I believe some will be folding in 2009. When you're advertising for buyers and there aren't any as is the Denver ...look for some of them to go under.

NBC, CBS, ABC, etc. are losing their viewers in droves...they are also in financial trouble. For example, NBC is shortening daily hours by cancelling shows to try to stay afloat.

Murdock's Fox is considered middle to right of the rest of US media. I don't know enough about Murdocks other world media to comment. But the US Fox is doing fine financially. If Fox were politically left, it would be suffering as are the other TV stations.

Most Americans claim to be right to middle politically and hate to be called left...I've lost all respect for my fellow Americans...most of them are too ill-informed or stupid to know who or what they are voting for, thus we now have the first truly socialist US President...Obama.

Ronnie

Thank you, an American, for the information on what's happening to your mainstream media. I guess the financial crisis isn't helping them and, of course, the use of the internet will seriously damage any older media outlet if it doesn't adapt - as with any other businesses.

Where we have a problem, you and I, is that what you view as end-of-the-world socialism I regard, from my European perspective, as moderate centre left and more centre than left. In the classic ideological sense, Socialism is merely a theoretical staging post on the road to a Communist society. It is the stage where all labour and property is brought under public or state ownership and all profit (if there is any) is 'nationalised'.

So, in my experience Socialism is not merely making some changes to the tax system or trying to create a fairer system of health insurance. If you are scared by that then real Socialism would certainly drive you over the edge.

I read the NY Times and Washington Post online and, as a European who has studied politics since he was eight, they are both very far from being left-wing. I would regard it as a great shame if they folded as they have always seemd like two of the best newspapers in the world and have given me an invaluable window on America, a place which can appear mysterious to many in Europe who only have the Hollywood version.

If you want truly Socialist media
then here you could find, or used to could find, the Morning Star, Socialist Worker, Militant, the old Marxism Today and the New Left Review. They were very much minority interest but they were the genuine article. If you want 'namby pamby' liberal centre left media then you go to the BBC, Channel 4 and The Guardian newspaper the Daily Mirror and the New Statesman. The rest of the media is generally centre right, including that owned by Rupert Murdoch who is regarded by some as a raving right-wing nut job. However, in order to make money, his businesses reflect where most of his viewers and readers are - centre right.

I disagree with you that there are degrees of socialism but that's because of my culture (I don't mean that I'm cultured) and education. There is Socialism, as briefly described above, and then there are a range of socially liberal options that exist within a capitalist economic system. Sweden falls into the latter category, in my view.

As for Obama, even if he was a 'sleeping' (unrepentant :-)) Socialist - which he isn't, just how long do you think he would last in office by following a truly Socialist platform in the United States of America? I'd give it a week.

The broad mass of Americans may well be ill-informed, as are most Europeans, but the people who hold the real power and wealth are not. A Socialist President would be an immediate and direct threat to their interests and frankly, he would not even be allowed onto the primary ticket, never mind be elected President.

Its a shame you've lost your respect for your fellow Americans. Other people don't always vote the way you would like them to, that's a simple fact. They felt they were doing the right thing and you disagree. I expect many of the older ones felt the same as you do now when Newt Gingrich was forging the Republican Contract with the American People. But that passed too.

The answer, if I may suggest it, is for you to meet and work with others to build the kind of national electoral organisation that the Democrats have. It might seem radical in an American context but its actually how European political parties have been structured for many years; rather than the loose coalition of interest groups that has been the US model.

I wish you a happy New Year.

Sergei Zubatov

I prefer America then western Europe, the only Europe I like is Eastren Europe, Britain no, Sweden hell no, they want everyone to be equal, lazy person and hard working person, thief and innocent person, clever and dump person,
you said you study political since you was eight, in wich school they teach then?

richard

An American - an oxymoron is a self-contradictory statement. To help you remember this, think "jumbo prawn" or "military intelligence". The word you are looking for is "tautology".
Hope this helps.

Ronnie

Sergei, lets call it the school of life and a deep curiosity.

It started with my wondering why my grandfather kept calling Harold Wilson a range of terrible names at around 6 every evening, even though he'd never met the man. Why would such an apparently reasonable elderly gentleman, appearing regularly on television with pipe in hand, entice such hatred from an otherwise calm and gentle man of the same age?

At around the same time, in the depths of the cold war, my mother suggested that if we were all going to be blown up it would do no harm to understand why.

Which parts of Eastern Europe do you like Sergei? I agree with you about America.

An American

Ronnie,
My last comment was my first before I did more research....

We'll never agree politically.

I consider your views to be basically socialist. You live in a 'now' socialist country and you think like a slightly 'pink' socialist. I say this because among other quotes...you state that the NY Times is middle of the road in your opinion...nothing could be further from reality. The Washington Post is only slightly better.

I don't say this to offend you...but you are completely naive to say that Americans would not stand for a socialist president. Most Americans don't understand what socialism is all about. Its easy to fool people when they are ignorant...Obama is quite intelligent...he isn't going to go full blast on his hidden agenda...he is going to very quietly try to undermine our constitution with the hundreds of liberal left-leaning judges he will be appointing both to the Supreme Court and Federal Bench.

Socialism has a creeping agenda and that is what is happening in the US. As I said before...there are degrees of socialism. A decade ago, Obama would never have had a chance at the Presidency.

We are losing our country just as the English have lost the UK.

Sergei gets the big picture. It takes someone who has lived under a socialist state's boot to understand.

Richard, thank you for the correct word...will look it up in my dictionary and try to use it in the future.

Ronnie

An American, thank you for calling me pink. You forgot the 'o' at the end.

Is 'pink' the same as 'leftist'?

As for the rest, have it your way. You sure love to throw that word 'socialist' around. I've not seen it used so much since Michael Foot was leader of the Labour Party.

A note. If someone tries to explain or describe something to you, it doesn't always mean that they actually agree with or support that which they describe.

So, if I were to describe an elephant to you, because you were having trouble understanding what it looks like; I would not necessarily be an elephant, pink or otherwise.

SMaharaj

Mr American,

I take as read that the immediate urgent threat to Indian society is the one of Islamic terrorism.In fact for the past twenty years India has been slowly bleeding to death from terrorist attacks on a daily basis.The West conveniently turned a blind eye to India's tribulations until the Islamic terrorists boldly brought the Islamic Jihad to the West's own back yard.

You do not hear of Christians killing Hindus because such incidents are reported in both the Indian and Western press as "Hindus persecuting Christians". You , Mr American should be familiar with the shenanigans of the morally and intellectually bankrupt Press and Media. Distortion of the truth ought to resonate with you-after all we have to read Melanie's blog in order to get a more accurate understanding and analysis of what is going on both in the Middle East and elsewhere.

richard

An American - you're welcome. I would also suggest that "Socialist US President" is a de facto oxymoron. In what way, exactly, would you say Obama is a socialist?

hadrian

As one supporting the excellent Barnabas Fund none of this is really new.Clearly secular and atheistic agendas mean it is of little interest to the media if Christians are persecuted; the unspoken thought is they probably deserve it, anyway.
However, I think it's vital to point out that the 'Christians' Mel is accusing of anti-semitism, etc are of a quite different cut to those behind Barnabas. On BBC Four last night it was pointed out John Buchan, far from being the anti-Jewish he's been accused of, was a signatory of the Balfour Declaration and deplored the rise of real persecution of the Jews in Nazi Germany. His background was Scottish Calvinist and as Alan Massie remarked, almost all of us calvinists to a man care deeply for the welfare of the Jewish people. Cromwell's record speaks for itself.
This doesn't mean we can't be critical of some of the things that go on in Israel, but friendly criticism is infinitely removed from the crass and ignorant hatred of Israel that prevails at present.
Thanks, Mel, for giving the work of Barnabas some publicity.
Good New Year!

hadrian

..and some of the most ignorant anti-Jewish sentiment flows from those taking the name 'Christian' but who reject just about every single tenet of the faith; sadly they dominate the broken down Church of England and detest old fashioned Bible believing Christians with just as much odium!

Sergei's friend

Saint Petersburg, former Leningrad did you ever heard that? the British lost the empire, we have to go back to work now,

Sofia is my other favour city you never heard that? in the black sea, soon you are going to come East Europe to look for jobs, see you!

An American

Richard,
Where have you been?
I won't go into the long list of what I believe makes Obama our first socialist president. The list is too long and has been gone over in this blog hundreds of times. Just read his books, look at his closest friends and political buddies, his wife, his pastor, his political votes, his speeches, his childhood, where and who his presidential funding came from...etc. etc...

Ronnie, I knew I should have been a little kinder to you. Sorry if I upset you...but your defending the NY Times really riled me.

SMaharaj
Sorry...your comments don't hold water.
I do believe that India has been ignored by the west and its media...but that is changing. India is becoming a very dominant force in the world. Try not to play the victim...it's unbecoming and not the positive direction you and your country need to go in.

Ronnie

An American, you are easily riled.

I think its a bit rich your telling SMaharaj to stop playing the victim after all the whinning you've done since 4 November.

richard

An American - I'm new to this blog. I don't have the time to do all you suggest (and I bet you haven't done it, either!) so I'm just asking you to outline, briefly, a couple of verifiable examples of ways in which Obama qualifies as a socialist.

Ronnie

Sergei's friend, I hope you are not working too hard.

Yes, St Petersburg is very beautiful, although its a long time since I've visited it. And the centre of Sofia too is very charming, especially on summer evenings.

You may be right and we'll all be looking for jobs as plumbers in eastern Europe soon.

As for the empire, I'm sure we left it lying around here somewhere...

SMaharaj

Mr American,

Like Mr Rhett Butler, your arrogance takes my breath away!

Who is to say I am an Indian and that India is the land of my birth?

Who is to say i am male/female or hermaphrodite?

Who I truly am may surprise you somewhat.

However your sweeping generalisations and contemptuous dismissal of the Hindu society's struggle for her very survival indicates a gross lack of understanding on your part together with a demonstrable lack of interest in cultures which do not reflect your world view .

I look forward to your next scathing response

An American

Richard,
Do your own research. If I spent an enormous amount of time putting it all down for you...I'm pretty sure you would just blow it off. You are a liberal...right?

SMaharaj...just guessing...your name kind of gives it away.

Just curious...were you implying that Christians are actually killing Hindus in India? I frankly find that hard to believe.

I'm a Christian and along with most Christians do have respect for other religions and do not agree with far-right Christian organizations forcing their religion on others. I personally shut the door on some of those kooks.

Ronnie...I find it interesting that you call my deep concern for my country's future whining...still mad at me..huh?Loved your Empire quote...amusing.

hadrian

An American,

As a calvinist, Scottish Presbyterian Christian I must say it is very naive to belive that nobody going by the name of 'Christian' could be involved in violence. Sadly there are some for whom christianity is simply a cultural, even tribal identity and are spiritually unregenerate. It is all too possible to find such 'christians' involved in the most unloving, unforgiving, least longsuffering acts against those they see as foes. Of course in India one takes such reports with extreme caution as there is undoubtedly true animus against the faith as such.
So far as your remarks on 'forcing their religion on others' goes, you must very carefully define your terms! What exactly do you mean by 'forcing'?! A forced faith, imposed, presumably against a person's own will through threat or oppresion etc, is a useless 'faith'! No Bible believeing Christian could be content to see anyone confess Christ except through personal conviction. That of course cannot be formed unless there is freedom of speech to allow the message to be communicated. Notice- Christianity is spread by peaceful means- persuasion of the mind! Once society stamps that freedom out, ALL will suffer whatever their world view or creed!
And in the Middle East it is worth noting Israel is one of the very few countries where such freedom thankfully not only exists but is prized, with very few extremist exceptions.

An American

Hadrian,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I can't be sure what is in the mind of SMaharaj... I can only presume that he is concerned that many Hindus are accepting Christianity and believes it is undermining Indian society.

I believe that all religions can be used by evil men. But, apart from the Crusades, Christianity has been a fairly docile religion in the way it goes about converting people.

I don't believe that Christians are killing Hindus in India as SM implied. The leftist western media would be immediately, gleefully reporting on that as most of them are anti-Christ, anti-God.

I agree with you that no one can be forced to believe in Christ unless they willingly accept him. SM doesn't seem to understand that point. True Christians have experienced that and believe that with all of their heart.

My response to SM was to reassure him that even I have a limit on the kind of Christian sects I agree with, which I won't go into, since we have so many in the US.

richard

An American - I'm trying to do my own research - not into why Obama is a socialist because, obviously, I don't think he is - but into why you think he is one. So far you've made a lot of unsubstantiated claims, hints, innuendos and so on. All I'm asking you to do is outline, briefly, a couple of verifiable examples of Obama's political position that could qualify him as a socialist. So that I can understand it. As long as you continue to dodge the question, my research is kinda doomed - but then so is your presumed wish to have your position understood on this forum. So, how about it? Two verifiable policy positions that make Obama a socialist. And don't be scared of being "blown off" - we're trying to have a debate here, which means being prepared to acknowledge the validity of someone else's position, or at least being prepared to accept the possibility that the other's position might have some validity. I'm prepared to accept that you have the advantage over me as far as detailed knowledge of Obama's political agenda is concerned - after all, you've done all that research, you've read his books, right? So it should be a simple matter for you to answer my question. Come on, buddy. Cowboy up!

richard

...(tumbleweed)...

Ronnie

Richard, I'm afraid that you are approaching this from the wrong direction. For our friend (and I am not being sarcastic), An American, to be able to provide you with the evidence you requested she would first need to be able to define and understand what Socialism is.

I'm afraid that she can't.

The criteria that she set out above included Obama's choice of wife and the people he has spoken to over the years. We'll struggle to find these points of definition in the works of Michelet, Liebknecht, Plekhanov or Marx.