An absence of consistency

Robert E Cole

Melanie,

WE STILL NEED YOU IN OUR (USA) MEDIA - MORE THAN EVER!!

hadrian

Perhaps I am just too cynical but I guess Hillary's desire for dialogue will fall on very deaf ears. After all every Islamic Jihadist must just love the feuding in Palestine as it gives them the perfect smokescreen to advance their global agenda, as the gullible and ignorant are lined upon their side, swallowing the propaganda whole.
All the posturing of righteous indignation and fellow feeling for their 'brother moslems' is truly ridiculous, given the utter enmity between the Islamic factions- enmity that does not flinch from bombing their rivals' places of worship, dedicated to the same deity!

Dave M

Just my gut feeling but Obama may turn out to be more robust defending the U.S.A. and Israel from Jihadists (and Iran) than those in his immediate circle. My hunch is Obama is now waiting to see if the IDF can crush Hamas so he can then press ahead with the two state solution (with Hamas out of the way). That is more or less the same policy as Bush adhered to.
Incidentally has anyone heard Madonna has now hired Israeli bodyguards after having received serious threats from Palestinian terrorists?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054545.html

Margaret Muller-Johansson

"Ah well" like you said Melanie, maybe Hilary is right I don't know, one must be better then other, a peaceful person must behave better then trouble maker, and it is not always good to use weapons to fight back, talking and using intelligentsia is better sometime, if Hillary wants to do that, why not?

Ronnie

1 They don't give a rats about any conditions placed on discussions and it allows them to blame others for their intransigence.

2 The US approach to Iran has worked so we'll over the past eight years hasn't it? Thank God there is an intended absensence of consistency with the moronic Bush policy.

3 We'll have to talk to them sometime so why not now? But just as there may be no conditions, so should there be no 'rewards'.

Straydingo

Obama, is sitting back hoping this conflict will blow over before he has to comit to anything - just as he sat on his hands back in October when the credit crunch hit the world....two words come to mind one is "Soft" and the other I will leave to your imagination.

Herbert Thornton

I get the uneasy feeling that more and more people can't see the wood for the trees. Translation, for those not familiar with the expression - when someone "can't see the wood for the trees" it means they are giving too much attention to details - and that prevents them from understanding what in a situation is important.

This particular wood consists of the fact that the Koran requires Muslims to kill Jews, and to subjugate all infidels, and that in obedience to that requirement, Muslim extremists have been planning, inciting and carrying out terrorism, world-wide, for several years and are continuing to do so. Hamas has subjected Israel to a constant rain of rockets and has been building up a massive arsenal of more rockets and other weapons - largely supplied by Iran and smuggled into, and stockpiled in, Gaza - all with the aim of destroying Israel.

Now that Israel has at last resolved to try to defend itself, people living securely in other countries see videos of Israeli bombs exploding - and pay far more attention to each explosion, and to each civilian accidentally killed, than to the enormity of militant Islam's Great War on Israel, on civilisation and on themselves. They can't see the wood for the trees.

As for President elect Obama, I am less pessimistic than some: he has indicated more than once that he considers it more necessary to concentrate U.S. forces on defeating the Taliban in Afghanistan than to persist in trying to reform Iraq. If he succeeds in that, it will demonstrate that he at least recognises a wood when he sees it.

Brian Moshe

Ronnie writes:
January 14th, 2009 10:16pm
"3 We'll have to talk to them sometime so why not now?"

Ronnie, why do 'we' (I presume you mean the USA) have to talk to Iran at any foreseeable time? In 1979 Iran formally declared war on the West. Jimmie Carter was President of the USA but he appeared not to have noticed this serious declaration (and still doesn't appear to have done so). Although he can't, of course, have been unaware of Iran - after all it was holding dozens of US hostages in the captured US embassy in Tehran and Carter was also too scared of Iran to allow the Shah (dying of cancer) and his family asylum in the US. The Shah was a rather better friend of the West than the current leader of Iran the US and the West seeks to court.

If Iran wants to talk to the USA I don't doubt this would easily be arranged as long as it was about something constructive and as long as Iran sought it. It is ludicrous for the USA to go cap in hand to this increasingly obscene enemy regime.

The West knows perfectly well what Iran's views and agenda are, even if most of the West is in infantile denial about Iran's desire for nuclear weapons and the Iranian threat to destroy Israel (which would, if it happened also destroy Gaza, the West Bank, Cyprus and much of the Middle East.

The Iranian ship currently sailing towards Gaza with an unknown cargo is not primarily designed to provide aid to the Gazans; it is designed as a provocation to Israel to test what will happen.

Reading the various Israel/ME threads here on Melanie's blog over the last few days I am saddened by the dramatic fall in the quality and lack of knowledge exhibited in the comments of so many new posters. It would be a great shame if the threads on this blog became merely an extension of the appalling Guardian's CiF.

Mark

dave youve got me in stitches over madonna's body guards.
do you remember the bernhardt madonna vs sarah palin hatefest?
this is taking care in the community to an extreme!

Bobski the builder

Lets hope that Obama can restore US credibility and also rein in Israel before all hell breaks loose.

Ronnie

Straydingo, the same two words could be applied to your brain.

Obama was only a candidate (i.e. unelected) in October 2008. Nonetheless I don't think it is accurate to accuse him of sitting on his hands then. I seem to remember him working with the President (remember him) at the time to find immediate solutions to the crisis. Obama's activities encouraged quite a few people to vote for him when the election did take place - in November.

Similarly, until he has been inaugurated he cannot actually 'take' action on Iran but he and his Secretary of State have made pretty clear signals about their preferred approach.

It seems, Straydingo, that you are one of those who subscribes to the view that Obama is the 'One' as you think he can do things before he has the authority of office.

steve

Brian Moshe: Did the U.S. and U.K. declare war on Iran in 1953 when they toppled Iran's democratically elected prime minister?

Walid Safi

Herbert Thornton, I don't think the Quran or the Muslim prayer book requires the Jewish to be kill, no, the quran do not encourage any extremist to Carry murder, it is wrong and sin, sorry, I don't know where you get that information from

Ronnie

Brian Moshe, blah, blah, blah. Like you are telling me things I don't know...?

My very simple point is that while there are many well-documented reasons for not talking to these people, we have nothing to lose by doing so and we may learn something to our advantage.

No pre-conditions, no promises, no committments from either side. A basic dialogue that you may not be able to hear from down there in your bunker.

Despite all the yelling, green flag-waving and pointles gun-fire at the sky, Iran is not in a particularly strong position. The price of oil is extremely low now, their only real allies are two groups of very unstable, non-state, nutters and they are surrounded by heavily armed potential enemies who fear the mullahs' influence on their own streets.

They may say they want to destroy this, wipe that off the map and occupy Rome. F*%k them!

A controlled dialogue is a sign of our strength. Hope for the best but prepare, always, for the worst.

Tony

I have said it before on this blog and I will say it again; Obama's Presidency will be known for what he does NOT do.
He is going to be a 'wait and see' guy, allowing others to tread where angels fear and then when things go wrong, he will look for scapegoats. Why the heck do you think he has surrounded himself with people like Hillary Clinton? She will be too haggard and have lost too many battles to contest Obama's crown in 2013. And when the US military fails he can blame a GOP defence secretary and still come up smiling!
What has he ever voted for in the senate? What has he ever done or achieved?
All he WILL achieve is the over taxation of America and a rapid slide to the horrors of Socialism we have come to live under in Europe.

Tony

Bobski....go back to building, although I wouldn't employ someone so ignorant to build my house!
"Rein in Israel before all hell breaks loose!"
What a stupid comment to make. Hell has already broken loose and it's not because Israel is DEFENDING herself but because Islam is ATTACKING her!
Why the crushing silence from the entire world now that 2 sets of rockets (5 in total) have landed in Israel from Lebanon? Where are the protest and street marches in London? Oh, hang on, we have to wait for Israel to DEFEND itself and fire back before those reactions are warranted!!

phil

If any of you do not know what BRIAN MOSHE WAS REFERRING TO ,I SUGGEST YOU GOOGLE --MV Iran Deyant-IT WILL TELL You OF AN IRANIAN SHIP HIJACKED BY SOMALI PIRATES WHO OPENED THE CARGO AND DIED IN DROVES WITHIN A SHORT TIME -The ship was sailing toward Gaza and Israel. It is reputed to have been a dirty bomb. who knows?

Ronnie

And you, Tony, will be remembered for what you have NOT written. While thousands will wonder why you BOTHERED to write what you DID.

Alfan Iharr

phil, when did that happen? it is possible, it could be dirty bomb, see it is bad karma because Islamic people are killing their Muslim people by accident or purpose, Iran bomb, Somali pirates I wonder what is next

Margaret Muller-Johansson

Tony, give a break to Obama, he is just a new president

phil

Alfan Iharr-just google it -I am not the expert on subjects like this -if indeed I am an expert on anything:)

Tony

Margaret Muller-Johansson...I am actually hoping Obama's foreign policy will miraculously succeed, as that will be good for world peace, but I am very worried about the people he has associated with over the years, the content of his 'mein kampf'book and the fact that he's been treated like a Messiah; the parallels with Hitler's rise to power is phenomenal.
I am afraid the awe he inspires in people will blind them to his true agenda, which is to make the USA the USSA. The thought makes me feel sick with worry, it will be the end of the American dream.

logdon

Melanie talks of the forked tongue dualistic approach of Ms Clinton towards Hamas and Iran. Here's a little snapshot of Muslim attitudes to the relationship between Islam and the West taken from the sayings and words of Islamic scholars and imams residing in the U.S. during the last year. So Bush's rhetoric about 'evildoers' and all the rest stops when the instigators of the 'evil' happen to reside in the US? Clinton's schitzophrenia is merely an extention of our failing to actualy confront expansionist Islam. Our fear of being perceived as racist or of using profiling is opening up a huge divide between us and those who would seek our demise. However in demonising Hamas whilst talking of pacifying Iran she at least get's it half right. Our lot seem to worship the whole bunch.

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.2277/pub_detail.asp

Walid Safi wonders where the anti Jew/ anti West attitudes come from? Here's a clue......

The following is from intelligence that field researchers have obtained from Islamic scholars and imams in the U.S. during the last year:

Example #1: “It is vital that the Muslim mujahedeen do not mistake the enemy and think this is a war against a nation or leader. Although the struggle may present leaders and nations to distract and ensnare the Islamic forces, it is Jihad – under orders from Allah and His Messenger, may Allah bless him and grant him peace. It is a Jihad against the usurious banking entity. Thus it is a struggle that can be waged not just on one terrain, or under one Amir, but it is Jihad that will be characterized by fighting wherever the enemy's forces exist. The enemy is not merely a personnel but a method, a deen, with its Temples, the banks; with its holy places, the Stock Exchanges of the world; and its false scriptures, the data-banks of figures, these magical millions and billions that hold the world's poor to ransom for the sake of a small elite of kafir power brokers, their core Jewish, their allies the lawless Christians. It is with these that war must be waged. One thing is certain- if the kuffar accept us and approve of us and claim they can live alongside of us, then we have lost our Islam. No one has yet contemplated the impact of one destroyed Stock Exchange or Central Bank Archive.”

Author’s note: This Islamic jihadist manual (The sign of the sword) was first printed in 1984. It is a step by step manual on how to destroy America and Israel. The manual is currently being distributed throughout the U.S. and available in several Islamic Centers. I obtained a copy in Falls Church, VA. It is no coincidence the World Trade Center was the target of the jihadists in 1992 and 2001.

Example #2:
Jihad is Undertaken Against Three Groups
Ibn Iuzayy says in his Qawanin:
There are three categories:
1. The kuffar.
2. Rebels.
3. Brigands.
As to the kuffar, all types of them should be fought. But all are in agreement that women, boys, hermits and decrepit old men should not be killed unless it is feared they will be a source of danger and intrigues. The insane, the blind, and the chronically ill should not be killed unless the latter two plan intrigue. Khalil in the Mukhtasar says: Kill them ...except women, unless they engaged in the fighting, boys, the insane, the decrepit, old men, the chronically ill, the blind, and monks secluded in monasteries or hermitages provided they do not conspire, and (if not killed) only the bare minimum of provisions should be left for them.”

Author’s note: This is also from the above manual as described in example #1. Islamic scholars will say this is taken out of context, but to an 18-year-old Muslim trying to understand his/her religion; statements such as this being distributed in 2009 are dangerous.

Example #3: “The objective of Islamic Jihad is to put an end to the dominance of the un-Islamic systems of government and replace them with Islamic rule, Islam intends to bring about this revolution not in one country or in a few countries but in the entire world.”

Author’s note: Imams from locations such as Blacksburg, Virginia, Dallas, Texas, Tampa, Florida, and San Francisco, California, distribute violent material by Abul Mawdudi (founder of the Islamic terrorist organization Jamaat-e-Islami/JI). Several Islamic leaders have informed our researchers in order to be a ‘true Muslim’ one must adhere to the works of Mawdudi.

Example #4: Imam Siraj Wahhaj, Brooklyn, NY, currently distributes his prior lectures on DVD and tapes. Wahhaj has stated the U.S. Government is the most evil government on the place of the earth. Wahhaj has stated it is important to get the gang members off the streets, teach them Islam, and then give them UZIs and send them back to the streets, because they are strong.

Author’s note: Wahhaj was trained in Saudi Arabia, is praised by such organizations as the Council for American and Islamic Relations (CAIR), and numerous imams throughout the U.S. His violent lectures are available throughout the U.S. Wahhaj also supports countries such as Sudan who are the closest country to establishing Sharia law under an Islamic nation. One need only study the cruelties against innocent people being conducted in Sudan to fully understand what Wahhaj and his supporters want for America.

Example #5: “If you discover that the racist, fascist criminal police or racist, fascist, criminal FBI agents are searching for you, for the alleged murder or wounding of a racist, fascist criminal police officer or a racist, fascist, criminal FBI agent in self-defense, you should go underground and eventually leave the country. The racist, fascist, criminal police and the racist, fascist, criminal FBI agents will fabricate a case against you because you are a Muslim of Arab ethnicity, a person of Color or an anti-racist, anti-imperialist and anti-Zionist Caucasian activist.”

Author’s note: This is a paragraph from an 81-page manual distributed next door to Imam Wahhaj’s mosque, Brooklyn, NY. It is full of racist and violent statements which can and likely has resulted in violence against non Muslims and Muslims who do not adhere to the same ideology as Wahhaj and dozens of other imams throughout the U.S.

Example #6: Islamic scholar Ahmad Sakr lectures at Islamic schools throughout the U.S. He informs young Muslims to follow only Sharia law, not the U.S. Constitution. He further advises all Congressmen will go to hell.

Author’s note: I encourage everyone to obtain a copy of Ahmad Sakr’s lecture titled, “Sharia law for the Youth.” After reviewing one will understand why there are Muslim youth in America calling for Jews to “go back to the ovens.”

Alfan Iharr

Thanks phil, I am shacking now

Carlos S

how scary, their is things that the media don't mention it, but you hear from people posting their opinions

Harrietta Macaroni

Logdon, those racist imams can say what they want, some people will listen to their believes, and the other will say no, I am not scare, I know we are all gonna go one day, but that doesn't mean we will go one time together, those people who don't like westerns, they eat western food, sit on western furniture's, drink western water, visit western hospitals or doctors, and they still hate us, the problem is them not us

phil

logdon.WHERE CAN I GET REGISTERED AS AN INSANE HERMIT -AND WHO DO I PAY THE FEES TO ?-IN FACT IS THERE AN ADDRESS IN THE WEST? I HAVE BEEN TOLD I AM DECREPIT TOO IF THAT HELPS :) I THINK MY MATE MIKE THE ORIGINAL KNOWS AN ADDRESS IN BEIRUT WHERE ONE CAN REGISTER C/O FISKY

phil

Alfan Iharr I HOPE THAT IS WITH A G rather than a K because if it is true we may not have long left:):) I wonder if Pete will print this (LOL)

Joe Strummer

Never ever trust the American Democrats. They were not, or ever were, "honest brokers" in the Northern Irish Peace Process. They were supporters of the IRA,and most probablty still are.