The mild-mannered British desire for the annihilation of Israel

Dave M

We've known where New Labour's loyalties lie for some time, I think. This has also finally dawned on the Americans so now, unlike in the Reagan era, the special relationship is now between America and Israel, with the U.K. pretty much frozen out. I suppose the U.K. has never really been in a war like this one Israel has been involved in since WW2. The Americans and Russians, however, do have some idea of what it involves. I think what shocks the British public is to see so many wounded children being aired by the Beeb. This hardly happened in the Falklands but the situation in the Middle East is a totally different scenario. Faced with potential suicide bombings, rocket attacks and a fanatical ideology on their borders, Israel has to take the gloves off. Sadly, there will be innocent victims caught in the crossfire.

gary

nauseating kinda sums it up.

Frank P

Problem is Melanie, even the Magazine that hosts your blog allows the egregious Tacky (sic) – yes, very sic - Theodoracopalus to spew anti-Semitic mendacity from its own pages; his tirade in this week's issue speaks volumes about Mr D'Ancona and the his own string-pullers and paymasters. I sometimes wonder whether you were given this slot to enable the Jew- haters to have a forum for their propaganda through your commentary box. You do seem to have more than your fair share of them infesting it and it seems the 'mediator' gives them more rope than your supporters at times. I can understand that it does expose the level of hatred that exists in Western societies, particularly the UK, but when the staff columnists give vent to their own baleful attitude to Jews it can hardly be regarded as cathartic. The BBC propaganda machine does indeed seem to have infected a very large segment of the population with its anti-Israel bias and the refusal of the MSM at large to expose the cant and treachery of our national broadcasting service is most disturbing evidence of the rout of the Left's counter-cultural campaign of the last half-century. The contradictions and hypocrisy are mind-boggling.

Lynda

Hear, hear, Melanie.

Its appalling and all around the globe too!

That people think Hamas is legimate because of a 'democratic' election is myopia in the extreme.

John Brailsford

I agree 100%. For once I hear a voice speaking some sense on this issue. It frightens me how biased the media has become.

Roger R

Even here in New Zealand we have a wave of anti-Jewish sentiment being expressed in refusals of cafe owners not serving Jewish or Israeli customers as well as well as the expected Left/ Islamo alliance's demonstartions.
I am not Jewish but men of good will must make their voices heard. Stand with the Pro-Israel lobby and declare that as for me and my house we ask the Lord to Bless the Jewish people, to Bless Israel and bring confusion to her enemies.

Mike from Texas

The liberal, left-wing, "educated", elites in Britain and the US are spoiled and comfortable and ignorant. They do not know who their true enemies are and hate their fellow countrymen and women who protect their sorry asses. I despise them and their ilk, including Brown and Obama, and hope our civilization survives their cowardice.

Dan Schwartz in NJ

Gordon Brown is merely reflecting the views of his Arab masters, who have heavily invested in the British financial industry. Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton get their money the old fashioned way: Through their Presidential foundations.

Since the UK has become so hostile to Israel, then perhaps the Mossad should halt intelligence sharing with MI5 & 6.

Alcuin

Right again, Melanie. The silence of our leaders is both cowardly and deeply dangerous, This is the Londonistan syndrome, failing to realise (like a weak parent) that bad behaviour requires instant condemnation, while not wanting to "offend" a culture containing significant numbers of thugs. When our leaders realise their mistake, it will be far harder to constrain a group grown confident in the face of our weakness. Enoch Powell would have spoken up, but he had seen where such behaviour (on both sides) leads.

Paul

Please have more faith in the British public Melanie. Most of my friends accept Israeli action in Gaza as justified. No Government can stand by and watch its citizens blown up and rocketed and do nothing. If it did so it would soon be deposed.
I am not Jewish or Arab but a white English male and can see full well what Hamas is- just a maniacal terrorist organisation screaming codswallop. They have brought this upon the Gazans. If the IDF were targeting civilians there would be none left by now.Most of this is perpetrared by our useless Government who cannot solve the problems of this country and like to divert attention away from this and to the Middle East. We are not so gullable.

Andy Leeds

While I am no friend of Israel like yourself (Israel behaves in rather stupid ways at times) I'm afraid I have to agree with much of what you write. One has been shocked at the hostility not only of the main stream media to Israel but also the hostility of many ordinary people. Underneath it all lurks the demon of anti-Semitism which has been neatly repackaged and redressed as 'criticism of Israel'.

Grumpy the Real

I am at once appalled and at the same time almost resigned to the fact that the Britain of today, has been almost warped and bent out of shape completely.

I am further reminded of the words of one of your posters - an American - who posited the idea that in fact there was/is very little difference between the mentality of the Brit viz a viz the German prior to WW2, and that the only reason Britain got into the fray, related to the land expansion (Prussia/Sudatenland/Poland) of the Nazis, RATHER than their anti-semetic stance.
I'm sure that there were also many 'well dressed ladies' then, waiting in line, mouthing off the same 'mild mannered' hatred, in a matter of fact way. (possibly the same type of solid burgher, who was amazed to find out that there was a death camp at the bottom of the street)

Gordon Brown - what can one add, without becoming personal. Suffice to say, that Israel has already allocated him a space in the box marked - Irrelevant (but make nice).
Thank G-d Israel does'nt rely on Britain for its survival.
Britan is there to merely blow in the wind, certainly not to take a stand, that would somehow prejudice a deal being done with the Saudis etc.

Maybe they (the arabs)will bail out the banking system and in the process introduce sharia banking to Britain - to go along with sharia law.

You're at the gates...just knock

Mehran

I recently confronted this new anti-Semitism in a forum affiliated to an arch conspiracy theorist and rabid Jew-hater (sorry, a critic of Israel), and the response was the canard that any criticism of Israel is seen as Jew-bashing by Israel's supporters and as such was 'not allowed'.

If I were to describe Arabs in crude and derogatory terms in a mainstream medium, I'd no doubt be reported to the hate-speech police. Yet it seems perfectly acceptable to portray Jews (and I mean Jews not 'Israelis') as being behind every calamity in the world today, with not so much as a squeak of protest from the right-on brigade.

It is disgusting that the Jews, who themselves were the victims of one of the most appalling calamities ever, should have to go inventing the wheel again, and have to defend themselves from pernicious anti-Semitism, not only of the Islamist thugs, conspiracy nutters and Galloway-type loony left, but 'respectable' Middle England opinon too.

Neil Turner

Spot on as usual

The irony, here though, is that despite all the UK's protestations against Israel, Islamists / Hamas / Al Quaeda etc all see the UK very much in bed with Israel.

Thus terrorist attacks on the UK will continue, and the Union Jack will still be burnt alongside the Stars and Stripes

Whether the UK likes it or not, Israel is in the vanguard of a fight we are up to our necks in, despite what the BBC and Sky spout

Maurice, MD

I suggest this goes deeper than mere strategic or financial issues.

For 2000 years, Europe tried to subdue or crush or destroy the Jews. Now when Western European society is in a self-induced decline, it cannot endure that the Jews are free of them and flourishing in their own land and have the valor to defend it.

Basically, the issue is just plain envy and spite.

Mike

You've brought it all on your own head Melanie........pages and pages have foretold how the policies of Israel would threaten the security of the Jewish people wherever they are. I don't have a solution, but I know what ought to happen.......Israel should bring an end to the Zionist project.......it has achieved its objective of providing a homeland for the Jews....it's continued expansion via the settler movement should cease bringing an end to the occupation......enough is enough. The sooner you face up to that, difficult as it may be, the sooner you will end up with an Israel at peace with itself and the world........it will have achieved the impossible....the co-existence of Jews among Arabs. Unlike Zionism......this isn't an impossible dream.

(PS: for phil, Adam B, and the others. I'm not taking any questions on the foregoing. I'll leave you to fight it out among yourselves). I'm out.)

Richard

Well done Melanie...... as per usual!

Margaret Muller-Johansson

We should go to the streets and protest against the media, the sleep walking left wing liberals, who are very dangerous people, they are Anti God, anti Religion, anti civilization, and one of the reasons they don't like Israel is, Israel is very civilize country

Carl

Melanie, over 300 Palestinian children have been killed by the IDF in the past few weeks. What was your point again?

Vision Aforethought

Re Brown's comments. Well, like most of the events going on outside of Israel world-wide, the media's focus on Israel provides a distraction from criticism of these other events - such as the war in Afhganistan, which is more about resources (oil) than a nation fighting for it's survival. Brown is a popularist (hence he writes to X Factor contestants) and will swing in the wind. Conviction politician? Hmmm.

Lizzy

In New Zealand, Roger R... and in Australia. Caroline Overington in her blog at The Australian cleverly refutes a vile little column by a Michael Blackman published in The Age here:
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/coverington/index.php/theaustralian/comments/the_jews_are_to_blame/desc/

The Age pulled the column after numerous protests including from the Jewish Council of Victoria. It should be up to all of us to complain.

Gruntson

One receives the impression after listening to the ubiquitous UN spokesmen that it is not so much a question of war crimes - rather it is war itself that is being criminalised.

It is not clear whether this is because Israel is waging a war of self-defence (this is simply unacceptable because of the Jewish dimension!) or whether in the UN's simplistic and utopian universe war is contrary to all 'elf and safety procedures.

Indeed, it is all quite peculiar.

logdon

Antisemitism in Britain is nothing new. Quite strangely, the recent wave of swastika waving bigotry awoke a long buried memory of a school trip to York where we were told of this incident.

"Clifford's Tower:
Massacre at York (1190)
The site of Clifford's Tower, the keep of York's medieval castle, still bears witness to the most horrifying event in the history of English Jewry. On the night of 16 March 1190, the feast of Shabbat ha-Gadol, the small Jewish community of York was gathered together for protection inside the tower. Rather than perish at the hands of the violent mob that awaited them outside, many of the Jews took their own lives; others died in the flames they had lit, and those who finally surrendered were massacred and murdered.
Understandably, this appalling event has become the most notorious example of antisemitism in medieval England. Yet, it was by no means an isolated incident, but rather the culmination of a tide of violent feeling which swept the country in the early part of 1190.
Clifford's Tower and the Jews of Medieval York (English Heritage, 1995) "

And another take which is eerily prescient of today's situation whereby Jewish people in Britain (and Europe) are being persecuted by Muslims, taught from birth to hate Jews, and any Tom Dick and Harry (I include the odious two face, turncoat Brown in this collective) who feel that a few Brownie points can be gained by blaming International Jewry for the actions of Hamas. It seems, however that natural adversarial law in those days was a more rigorous enterprise and at least attempt was made to bring the perpetrators to justice. Somehow I can't see plod and the CPS doing anything remotely similar.

"The fortress now known as Clifford's Tower in York was originally built by William the Conquerer in 1068, as part of his campaign to subdue the North under Norman rule. A century later it became the site of terrible anti-Jewish violence in which many lost their lives.
The first fortress to stand on this site was made of wood. Built (along with the mound itself) by William the Conquerer in 1068 as a fortress against anti-Norman rebellion in the north, it was burned down by that rebellion within a year. It was soon rebuilt, however, with the Normans taking harsh reprisals against the rebels and the city of York.
Over a century later, in 1190, the castle became the setting of terrible events. As part of an upsurge of anti-Jewish sentiment related to the propaganda of the Crusades and the accession of the crusading King Richard to the throne, violence broke out against York's Jews. About 150 Jews sought refuge in the wooden keep, but it was soon set upon by the mob.
Rather than fall into the hands of the mob, many of the Jews inside committed suicide and set the castle on fire; the survivors who emerged were massacred. As punishment for this heinous act, the king's chancellor fired York's sheriff and constable and imposed a heavy fine on York's citizens. The ringleaders of the crime were never found."

Louise

I’m afraid that this decline in the average Brit’s sympathies for Israel will not be reversed as long as the BBC is allowed to continue its demonisation of the Jewish State with impunity. The poisoning of listeners’ and viewers’ minds owing to the BBC's despicable failure, from 1967 onwards, to present facts fairly, and to accept and present with increasing zeal the narrative of Israel’s enemies, has had – and is having – its deletrious effect.
Although the appalling Orla Guerin no longer reports on the Conflict, her contributions, demonising Israel over many years, have their echoes in the received wisdom of the BBC, spearheaded by Middle East Editor Jeremy Bowen, that everything Palestinian spokespeople say is can be accepted at face value and everything Israeli spokespeople say must be subject to the most sceptical analysis and close scrutiny. Bowen’s book on the Six Day War is riddled with historic inaccuracies and half-truthes. Ditto his appalling documentary last year to mark Israel’s 6oth anniversary. He accepts the Arab narrative and shows scant knowledge of the complex history of Palestine, of the Jewish presence there, and of the Zionist and proto-Zionist movement.
As Trevor Asserson so painstakingly pointed out in his several reports on BBC bias, Al Beeb gives far more publicity to the Palestinian viewpoint and to images of Palestinian suffering than to the Israeli equivalents.
I think we’ve all noticed how, whether during the Gaza crisis or any other event involving Israel, the BBC takes Hamas’s casualty figures for granted, usually reports the Hamas or anti-Israel case first, followed, almost as a postscript, by the Israeli case (as in “Israel claims…” or “Israel says…”).
Another major factor in the decline of public support for Israel is the secularisation of society, and the lack of familiarity with the Bible. As the Rubinsteins show in their book “Philosemitism” (pub. 1999), which is about Britain and other English-speaking countries, after the Reformation many Christians of all social classes identified with Jews and sympathised with Zionism owing to a shared “Old Testament”. Here, for instance, is what Colonel Wedgwood, who before the Second World War wrote a book “The Seventh Dominion” (which argued for the inclusion of a re-established Israel in the British Commonwealth of Nations) had to say. The tragedy is, few people read the Bible now, and so few Britons identify (so to speak) with Israel against Pharoah.
Wedgwood: 'The Anglo-Saxon, more than any other race, wants to sympathise with the Jews. . . no doubt we understand the Jew better than can those to whom the Old Testament is not familiar from infancy. To the foreigner the word Jew is a hissing in the street; to us the word suggests Solomon and Moses, and a thousand cradle stories. So often have we used their names for our own children that they seem now to be our fathers, especially our Puritan forefathers. . . Towards such a people one has a feeling almost of awe. . .'
http://www.ccjaustralia.org/ge/?item=208

fellow traveller

Dan:

"Gordon Brown is merely reflecting the views of his Arab masters, who have heavily invested in the British financial industry."

Somewhat ironic. The blog rightly complains about prejudice against Jews using the example of an idiotic student complaining that Jews own the banking system. But you support it by complaining that British politicians are biased because Arabs own the banking system.

Adam

Melanie, you are far too prejudiced to give a balanced view. The reason so many in Britain think the Israeli response was disproportionate with some acts bordering on war crimes is simply that it was. The vast majority killed were not Hamas but women and children. Any other so called democracy behaving in the manner Isreal has would be condemned and sanctions would be placed on it and no one except a few hard hearted zealots would complain..

seb

Much of the anti-Israel chest-beating is moral preening, people with no genuine understanding of the issues at all parading their credentials as partisans of whomever it is the press has told them is today's underdog. Causes that fall out of this category - Darfur, Burma and many others - for any length of time appear to be forgotten.

The United Nations accepted the de facto establishment of Israel not long after World War Two. It takes a cretin of Olympic standing, not a member of our 'educated classes', to come up with the Let's Annihilate Israel sentiments expressed by the woman Mr. Furedi encountered in the queue for train tickets. Fortunately, for the next four years at least there is going to be in Washington an Obama team that is obviously not interested in this vicious, racist woman's neo-nazi option, which means that it is more rather than less likely that the inevitable peaceful and difficult compromise the Middle East awaits will be arrived at. That is to say, people like the soon-to-be-unpopular Rahm Emmanuel will ensure that the opinions of our bien pensant horde of anti-semites will be, thank heavens, ignored.

Edward

The UK has been warped and bent out of shape on account of two factors:

a) Internalisation of the Palestinian people as a sacred entity (a sort of compensation for wholesale adoption of secularity);

b) Dhimmitude of the Ruling Elite - Islam as a strong belief system will probably be good in the long run for the feckless underclass, so the reasoning might go.

Of course adopting Islam as the official state religion may bring many disadvantages including no more Starbucks skinny latte.

Ed

Adam - you consistently fail to understand. In fact you are beyond belief.

yankel

Seems to me that there is no future for a vibrant Jewish community in the UK. British Establishment Jews already behave as though they were dhimmi's -just look at Kaufmann- so why should any self respecting Jew want to bring up their children in such a threatening and demeaning environment? Why should British Jews feel obliged to apologise for Israel? I'm not necessarily advocating Jewish emigration to Israel since the political establishment there are just as clueless as the British, but UK Jews should definitely be making contingency plans to leave - think Germany 1937/8 and make plans whilst the goings good.

Vision Aforethought

@Adam: The reason for the number of (non combative) victims is because the 'system' that part of the world (Israel excepted) has chosen to adopt simply does not function. Believe me. For example, when there is an earthquake in Pakistan or Iran there are vast number of casualties. On the other hand, in the US (or here), when disaster strikes (whether man made or natural), because money is not 'stolen' by the corrupt leaders it can be used to protect or take care of the citizens through sound management. While it looked at the time as if the US government did not care for the people when Katrina struck, it was poor LOCAL management that lead to the appalling state of affairs. Likewise, what happened to the billions given to the Palestinians by the world - the US and UK included? I can tell you, it was used to purchase luxury cars - which is why you see expensive vehicles all over Gaza and other Palestinian enclaves. The Palestinian people are as much victims of their own poor leadership as all parties are victims of an incomplete job by the British et all over 60 years ago. That is why the whole sorry mess is so tragic.
(If you go live / stay in Israel for a few years, you'll experience a more accurate perspective as to how they live and notice that while there is a lot of fear, there is little educated hatred - the country is based on our same liberal values - ever seen a Knesset session in action? Just as noisy and opinionated as our parliament.) Living there is a better alternative to propaganda. And there is a lot of that about - mainly from those (of various nationalities) who really would like to see Israel - and the Jews, gone. The Palestinians are their perfect 'tool' both as a weapon and as a propaganda machine. Appalling! I could go on.

phil

JUST FOR ADAM -ANOTHER VIEW ------------
The Threat of the Human Shield Strategy Hamas Uses Extends Beyond Israel, Gaza

By Abraham Cooper , Harold Brackman

US News and World Report

January 9, 2009

What if President Obama were presented by CIA Chief Panetta with this "actionable intelligence": Osama bin Laden and company are holed up in a Hitler-style bunker underneath a hospital in Afghanistan occupied by women and children deployed as shields? Would he launch an immediate strike with cruise missiles or hesitate because of the hostages? Would such a move thwart future 9/11’s and be viewed as the death knell of al Qaeda? Or would there be a firestorm of international protest from the Arab and Muslim world and beyond that the American response was a "disproportionate" violation of humanitarian international law and even a "war crime"?

Such is the real dilemma currently faced by the Israeli high command, which reportedly has intelligence that exactly locates the shaken Hamas war cabinet in Gaza in a bunker beneath a hospital, where it is shielded by women and children. How should Israel act? Destroy the terrorist high command or do nothing, to avoid being blamed for loss of innocent lives by an international community indifferent to the threats from Hamas rockets targeting Jews from Sderot to Tel Aviv's suburbs?

In the lethal "fog of war," even the most-disciplined, best-intentioned armies errantly kill civilians caught in the crossfire as well as their own soldiers who die from friendly fire. Does anybody remember the thousands of French civilians killed by the Allies during World War II's Normandy Invasion? In their current asymmetrical war with Hamas, the Israeli Defense Forces have used cellphone messages, leaflets, and other measures in the attempt to decouple civilians from military targets placed in their midst by the terrorist organization. The flow of hundreds of trucks laden with foodstuffs and medicine into Gaza from Israel has now been expanded into a daily corridor in order to allow further humanitarian supplies to reach noncombatants, even when that means some military activities are suspended for hours. For its restraint, Israel gets nothing but a global diplomatic and media chorus of boos from those willfully blind to the ultimate outrage against humanitarian international law occurring today in Gaza.

Shields protect honorable combatants in the midst of battle. Human shields are the weapon of cowards who violate every principle of humanitarian international law. As Prof. Louis Rene Beres points out, the use of human shields constitutes "perfidy" under Article 147 of the Geneva Convention IV defining the laws of war. The international criminals who use human shields are hostes humani generis: "common enemies of humankind."

The Gaza conflict is likely to be remembered as a terrible watershed, not because the IDF has unintentionally killed Palestinian civilians but because Hamas has made the use of human shields a primary military strategy. Buoyed by the unforgivable silence of leading international NGOs, Hamas deploys two complementary tactics that mock and debase the humanitarian core of international law: thousands of indiscriminate rocket attacks targeting Israeli civilians and the massive use of Palestinian civilians—including women and children—as human shields.

Why this willful blindness? For some, it is the romanticized image of Hamas, the pitiful underdog David confronting the giant Israeli Goliath. Yet, in truth, Israel is a sovereign member state of the United Nations that has no need to apologize for creating a military strong enough to defend it from multiple regional threats, including Tehran's genocidal promise to "wipe it off the map." Those who dismiss genocidal threats from Iran and Hamas as mere rhetoric should take a closer look at history. As Ron Rosenbaum recently pointed out, the most significant difference between Adolf Hitler's and Hamas's plans to annihilate the Jewish people is that the Nazis hid their full intent until World War II while Hamas has been promising to do exactly this since its founding charter 20 years ago. And while Hamas does not possess the power of an Adolf Hitler, a nuclearized Iran may be positioned to further the fuehrer's vision of a Judenrein world. It is important to remember that the Nazi leader was incapable of perpetrating the Final Solution until he was empowered by the tacit complicity of a world community that retreated from reality rather than confront the rising tide of evil that was Nazism.

In one sense, the world community is right. The future of international humanitarian law could be at stake in Gaza. But the deadly menace stems not from the IDF but from Hamas's twin campaign of terrorism against both Israeli and Palestinian innocents. The Gaza terrorist state that turns its own people into human shields also threatens to strip the entire civilized world of the protections of international law. Ultimately, Israel will safeguard its own citizens and secure its own destiny, but if the nations of the world do not speak out against Hamas's barbarities, they should be prepared to see such tactics unleashed beyond the borders of the Holy Land, cheered on by the puppet masters of terrorism in Tehran.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom

Heard on Saturday in lovely, oldie-worldie Bath during a demonstration against Israel, regular and repeated chants of ‘Kill the Jews!’ and ‘All Jews are bloodsuckers!’ And this from ordinary, white guardian-reader-looking types. Happy days are here again….

Sanchez

To a certain extent, people filter what they get from mainstream media so blaming BBC and the like for the surge in anti-Israel sentiment is ridiculous. Just as reading your articles and taking them for an unbiased, well researched piece of work would be a mistake. Most people in Britain are unaware of the historical facts of the conflict not to mention the part Britain has played in creating and fueling most conflicts in the region. Israel is mainly responsible for it's image in the eyes of the public as is America for its own image. The recent escalation is just another example of Israel's choice to resolve all issues with violence. The 2006 attack on Lebanon is another, the list is endless. There has to come a time where Israel uses diplomacy, real diplomacy followed by real commitment and action to try and resolve it's differences and stop playing the victim card. The paranoia that Britain as a whole wants to see Israel wiped is ludicrous and a symptom of fear politics that serves no good. Unfortunately, your column is one aspect of this type of politics and serves no real purpose except to misinform, divide and incite hatred. The readers who sypathise with your views just rant more hatred towards Palestine, Arabs, and anyone who dares speak out against the violence. Those who disagree just feel more frustration at the situation and begin to exhibit the same traits only on the side of the Palestinians and Arabs. I say again, this column serves no real positive purpose. It does not bring people together, it does not inform, it does not contribute to the real discussion for solutions. IF Israel actually wanted peace and it's politicians had the balls to act in that vain, you would see an immediate change in peoples views. You'd also see a fall in support for Hamas in the region. It's sad that you Mel cannot take a step back and use your column to more positive use. You and people like you are part of the problem and certainly not the solution.

Norman

It is impossible to have a rational debate on the Arab Israel conflict or Anti semitism in the UK . THat is anti semitism.
I believe in pro Israel spokesman being tougher and more vociferous on the TV and calling a spade a spade. People have been too soft and easy going for too long.The pro Terror lobby are not mealy mouthed. I am British -sad at our present decadence or failure to think. I say God Bless America-it is truly the world's only hope in this mess.

Louise

Edward, and don't forget Crufts - and the royal corgis, "unclean beasts" like the most unpampered of curs.

nosmo29

Edward; " Of course adopting Islam as the official state religion may bring many disadvantages including no more Starbucks skinny latte.....

And no more pubs and breweries?

N. Simon

fellow traveller, it's the Saudis who are lending McBroon the bank bailout money!

Don't you read the news?

N. Simon

Adam,

"Any other so called democracy behaving in the manner Isreal has would be condemned and sanctions would be placed on it and no one except a few hard hearted zealots would complain.."

Then, by your logic, the Hamas trained British homicide bombers who blew up on the London underground on 7th July were fully justified!

[NGUK]

Dear Melanie,

I agree that the BBC's news coverage and some elements of the British press are slanted against Israel and the IDF, and that that needs to be addressed.

But really, is the way to counter them to suggest that 'the mild-mannered British' desire 'the annihilation of Israel' on the Spectator's website? Do you genuinely believe that?

On the basis of what evidence? An anecdote, however distressing, from Frank Furedi? Gordan Brown's factual statement the innocent people have died in Gaza and advocacy of a ceasefire?

Are you saying that anyone who fails, on some given occasion, to back IDF tactics to the hilt may have an anti-Israel agenda?

In terms of Realpolitik, Brown and the EU may not be as staunch in their support of Israel as the US, they do not give as much backing as Israel deserves, even.

But why on earth would they wish to have a major ally and trading partner in the Middle East 'annihiliated' ---to be replaced by some unstable unknown entity under the sway of powers inimical to the West?

These are difficult times for Israel's friends, and it is correct that there are anti-Jewish forces stirring on the Left that have allied themselves to radical Islam.

They need to be watched and their antics exposed. But they are still a tiny fringe element and do not have widespread public support.

To give the impression that those forces
are close to permeating the British political establishment, let alone the population at large is rather insulting to British readers of your column, and not a good way to influence opinion, do you not think?

Regards

[NGUK]

Gene McG

Carl - two observations. (1) how do you know? (2) what is your point? Finally, the deaths of the children (whatever the number, and I assure you it's a tiny fraction the number you offer)are the fault, responsibility and design of the the evil hamas who placed them in the direct line of fire. So I ask you again: what is YOUR point?

Daibhidh MacAdhaimh

Most guys that I encounter and chat to in my line of work have been sympathetic to Israel. One of these, an Indian, had nothing but contempt for Ken Livingstone and Galloway's anti-Israeli views. Therefore, Melanie, beneath the media formed scum that has risen and sits stubbornly upon the surface of public discourse exists a healthy diet of level-headed rationality.

marco

In 23 days 1300 Palestinians killed by Israel including 417 children & 108 women, 5320 injured. Enough?

Carl

@Gene - I understand, it is painful to think that a country that calls itself civilised can unleash it's Army against women and children.

lw

well said Melanie, I don't think I have anything to add! only that, of course, the reason for all that is blatant antisemitism and fear of upsetting Muslims.

sandra

Marco...unless you count them yourself HOW DO YOU KNOW? Oh I know, its because Hamas told you. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say "How sweet and gullible!"

phil

Julian you are obviously an ignorant person or one who enjoys hating Israel .You can tell us which , I say ignorant because you will not be able to come up with one reason why Israel would want a fight with any of its neighbours -I will ask you is it territorially beneficial? they did leave Gaza you know and saw all the infrastructure they had left destroyed by the insane vandalism of hamas -they are at peace with Egypt,having left the SINAI--.Is it economically beneficial?-do I really need to answer that ? Does it make it more popular ?crass -SO why do you think it fights these people other than in defence of its citizens -I look forward to a learned piece from you ASAP .On a very personal note Julian ,I would like to think I do not waste my time like this but sadly I am pretty sure I do -If I change one mind like yours I will feel I have changed the world to a better place .

lw

Adam you're an idiot and you just prove Melanie's point, that people have been brainwashed by the anti-Israel (and antisemitic) media! Where do you get your facts from - Hamas??! they claim we killed less than 50 of them, that they kidnapped and killed dozens of soldiers, that they buy kittens for their children. did you know that Hamas use men, women, children and the elderly to do their bidding? if the IDF kill an old man or woman suicide bomber who's about to blow up a soldier, do they count among the innocent???!!!

David

There will always be a ´reason´for hatred of the Jews. People have a hatred that not even they understand. I honestly dont know how the story of the Jews and Israel can be explained without reference to the Bible.

Said

Carl - you're right - and to be sure you're talking about the Arabs aren't you - when you say it is painful to think that a country that calls itself civilised can unleash it's [sic] [fighters] against women and children.

Maximilian

From public opinion polls being discussed at Harry's Place. Question: Which side is to blame for the fighting in Gaza?

Answers in Britain:
Hamas, 24%
Israel, 18%
Both, 39%
Don't know, 19%

Answers in the U.S.:
Hamas, 44%
Israel, 14%
Both, 9%
Don't know, 29%

So while more people in the US blame Hamas than in Britain, and more people in Britain blame Israel or both sides than in the US, nevertheless even in Britain there's a measurable gap between the 24% who blame Hamas alone and the 18% who blame Israel alone. The Al Beeb-Grauniad axis hasn't succeeded in fooling all the people all the time.

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/01/18/laying-the-blame/

patricia

Frank P - "Jew Haters are 'infesting' this blog"?

That's not very nice is it?

Especially as the most perspicacious antagonists of your considered writings on the subject, might themselves be Jewish!

phil

patricia-you are not going to shock the world and tell us you are Jewish -that would be too much to bear

Dixon

Mike
January 19th, 2009 8:32am

(PS: for phil, Adam B, and the others. I'm not taking any questions on the foregoing. I'll leave you to fight it out among yourselves). I'm out.)"

What he's saying, if we translate that, is "I've made me mind up dont confuse me with the facts".

Michael Sweeney

This is crazy. Yesterday Gordon Brown and other EU leaders all appeared by Olmert's side in Jerusalem. Indeed Olmert said: "I would like to voice my personal appreciation and the appreciation of the people of Israel to you, the leaders of the states of Europe, for your impressive expression of support for the state of Israel and concern for its security."

I think there is sympathy for Israel from many of us in the UK - indeed many Britons are deeply suspicious of Islamic extremism. On the one hand we get blamed for Islamophobia and on the other for anti-semitism. My belief is the reality is that we're a pretty steady and even tempered lot.

The pictures from Gaza on last night's news were devastating - it would be inhuman not to sympathise with people in pain and distress be they Arab, Jew or whoever.

Felicitas

yankel, why such a self respected Jewish will like to bring up their kids threatening environment? good question, some Jewish people are also sleep walking, I spoke with Jewish friend of mine a week ago and she was telling me Britain is the safest place for Jewish people to live, she said France and America are not good place for Jewish, in my personal experience the Jewish are better of living places where there is Law and Order like France, America, Israel, Barbados, Cuba not Britain, Hell no!

phil

mike -(PS: for phil, Adam B, and the others. I'm not taking any questions on the foregoing. I'll leave you to fight it out among yourselves). I'm out.)

WHO ELSE BOTHERS WITH YOU ?THAT WAS REALLY FUNNY :)

Tango

Speaking of being biased, this article is very biased.

It's not that the UK media and elite believe in everything Hamas says, it's that Israel's record of lying is too strong to ignore. How can you claim with such certainty that Israel is the one telling the truth about civilian casualties in Gaza?

Israel has been saying it was Hamas who broke the truce, but then it was revealed and even the Israeli government was forced to admit that Hamas hadn't fired a single rocket into Israel while the truce lasted. It was ISRAEL who broke it when it killed 6 militants,then, obviously, Hamas retaliated and then Israel had the perfect pretext to invade Gaza.

The British elite knows Palestinians have been expelled from their homes and have lived in poverty and constant fear because of Israel,so there is nothing wrong with their attitude. Israel is an occypying power who regularly ignores International Law, Geneva Conventions, UN resolutions and human rights (in the occupied territories), therefore Hamas has the right to fight back. If your country is occupied, you have all the right to resist,it's as simple as that. What's so wrong about the British elite being against Israel on this issue?

Israel left Gaza, which was very good, but it kept control of its air space, borders, territorial waters, goods inflow,ports, tax system, and has been blockading Gaza for months. How do you expect Palestinians not to do something about it? Should they just accept living under such conditions?

I agree that Hamas should halt its attacks on Israel, but I also think Israel should create the right conditions under which attacks from Hamas will no longer be necessary.

Remember, Hamas only exists because Israel created the ideal conditions for it to exist.

ed

so one persons outragrous comment in a train queue means we all think the same thing???

Absolute garbage...

likewise the stories of attacks on starbucks ane tesco being indicative of the issues at the moment - garbage....

was goldman sachs offices attacked?

PLease keep a sense of reality on this blog site.

I am getting sick and tired of people treating the actions of a few as what we all think.. I am also getting fed up with people doing down Great Britain.

Sam

Lets butcher and massacre mostly innocent people, and get surprised when the British media and public do not join in cheering.
How pathetic, shame on you.

JJS

Though I am personally devastated by the rising anti-Semitic incidents in the UK, and in some cases the awful, terrible hatred being directed against Jews (not only Israelis), [NGUK] does make a valid point in that not everyone in this country of ours has joined the bandwagon of hatred. There are still many decent, thinking people around, those who like me feel much sympathy for the genuinely innocent in Gaza and Israel, and yet who know that any country has a duty to protect its citizens at any cost. Hamas deliberately targets civilains; Israel deliberately tries to limit civilian casualites. To have someone like Carl make the ignorant assertion that Israel "unleashes" its force against women and children is ludicrous. If Israel were to have done that, or even have had the desire to do that, there would have been deaths of epic proportions, in the hundred of thousands. Instead, it systematically went about hunting for known terrorists who MASQUERADE as civilians and hide behind their own young as for protection or worse (what wild beast in the jungle does that - I know of none?).
Sad days indeed.

Mike

Sanchez: You've said it all......an excellent post.

phil

Michael Sweeney"The pictures from Gaza on last night's news were devastating - it would be inhuman not to sympathise with people in pain and distress be they Arab, Jew or whoever."-I CANNOT SPEAK FOR EVERY JEWISH PERSON ,IN FACT I SUPPOSE ONLY FOR MYSELF BUT EVERYONE I KNOW IS DEVASTATED BY THE PLIGHT OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE-It is certainly not the wish of Jews to have fought this war at all,nor to have hurt the innocent amongst Gaza .I hope now Israel will be helpful with aid and that hamas never again will force a war to be fought again .wHEN THE FOG OF WAR SETTLES IT WILL BE APPARENT WHAT HAMAS DID TO ENSURE THE DEVASTATION OF THEIR CITY AND PEOPLE (apologies for the cap lock it has just gone barmy)

stanley Jerusalem

Dixon you might be more accurate in saying that they have ceased to listen. They are simply rearranging their prejudices.

Grumpy the Real

Israel is only 'liked/tolerated' when it somehow manages to survive a war('67/'73) against all odds,or rescue a situation (Entebbe),and where it is perceived as the under-dog.

By extension Jews must similarly fit into the sterotypical mold ie head bowed, going about ones business, hoping to not draw attention and therefore not be singled out.

This is how many people in Britain and elsewhere reference the Jew/Israel.
So it therefore comes as quite a shock when Israel and its Jewish population shout - Enough! and turn on its tormentor -hamas.

We can argue the David/Goliath proportionality thing ad-nauseum, but suffice to say, that any group (hamas is a group - not a state) would have figured that at some stage Israel would be forced to respond, and since it is a state and not a terrorist entity, this response would employ its convential army - tanks/planes/soldiers.

So what was hamas and its puppeteers in iran anticipating - a beigal bakeoff maybe.

We are presently prosecuting the 'Long War' which is a war of idealogies, and which will be fought on several fronts and in several theatres.
Gaza is just one of many, chosen specifically for its close proximity to Israel.
Rest assured, the battle which is on-going there, is just the tip of the spear.

The battle in Britain (not to be confused with the Battle of Britain) appears to be rolling along very nicely for the muslims/arabs with the weapon of choice here being the demonstration and placard.

Better buy up all those kaffiyeh (scarves) quick, so that the ranting mob does'nt single you out.

Ben-Tsiyon (ha rishon)

The increase in rabid anti-Semitism among the British does not in the least surprise me, when I recall my teen-age schooldays back in the 1940s. In those days, the constant cry was: "Go back to Palestine, where you came from". Today the lyric has changed, but the tune is the same as always.

stanley Jerusalem

Tango - So the destruction of billions of poundsworth of Hothouses and farming equipment by Hamas is Israel's fault as is the firing of thousands of rockets into civilian-inhabited Israel and Hamas are relatively blameless. Also the diversion of billions of dollars of UN and Eu funds by Hamas into armaments is also Israel's fault and not that of Hamas? When does incredulity commence Tango? At what stage does Hamas commence to take responsibility for their actions, Tango?

phil

Tango You are writing so much of what is said by those that have not studied the history of this area in depth and by those also who want to ferment trouble -I will ask you would Israel need to to control the borders of a country it can have no interest in if they were not scared of the attacks from there if the borders and crossings were open?,.would there be any point to doing that ?The hamas charter calls for the annihilation of all Jews and of course Israel .The peace process is hijacked every time by those same people -please tell us what you would do. btw Palestinians were never expelled from their homes that is a lie of gigantic proportion .perpetrated by Palestinians and the Arab world -Ben Gurion asked them to stay and become citizens 1 million are there now under no threat and prospering with great health welfare and education -they have neither the wish nor the need to leave .

you quote"Hamas only exists because Israel created the ideal conditions for it to exist." ---those conditions are that Israel wishes along with its citizens to survive !--have you a better solution .Israel would be delighted to hear from you .

logdon

Louise
January 19th, 2009 9:55am
I’m afraid that this decline in the average Brit’s sympathies for Israel will not be reversed as long as the BBC is allowed to continue its demonisation of the Jewish State with impunity.

Here's how they work. From theaugeanstables site.

January 16, 2009

BBC Silent about being Terrorized in Gaza: Discretion or Cowardice?

Filed under: Arab-Israeli Conflict, Breaking News, Intimidation of MSM, Latin-America, Most Valuable Idiot of the Day — Richard Landes @ 2:03 am — Print This Post
Israeli media reports that Hamas took over the first floor of the building that the BBC offices in Gaza last night and fired rockets from there, trapping the journalists above. Despite the fact that their reporters have now escaped the building, the BBC has so far not said anything about this.
When I was interviewed on the BBC last week, I commented on the pervasive intimidation of the MSM in Gaza, which is one of the reasons that there were none there when the hostilities broke out. I pointed out that the last journalist resident in Gaza, Alan Johnston, now the editor in chief, only survived because he was so openly pro-Palestinian, and even he got kidnapped and brutalized.
“I’ll cut that out to spare you a law suit, my interviewer said. You’re impugning the integrity of a journalist, and without his credibility he can’t practice his profession.” I was at once struck by the combination of concern for reputation and shamelessness involved in such a “favor” to me.
But here’s the BBC, used as human shields by Hamas, and they won’t let the public know.
Now on the other hand, the Foreign Press has decided to boycott the visual material released by the Army Spokesperson’s Unit (Dover Tzahal) because they object to not being allowed to go into Gaza and — get this — to the Israelis shelling buildings that hold press offices in Gaza. (I kid you not.)

SSimva

"butcher and masacre", Sam? What utter tripe are you talking? How can you hope to put a reasonable argument forward when you use such ignorant and childish words? Shame on *you*, I think.

EDDIE

Just now I heard President Mubarak of Egypt blame Hamas for the war in Gaza. This contradicts the BBC and most of the British Media who blame israel entirely. I have to think that what is happening in the U.K. represents more than just bias

R Mather

I sometimes wonder whether Europe's constant attack on Israel is a way of alleviating guilt over the Holocaust. But it is equally distressing that the UK is no longer safe for Jews. The media and the elite's appeasement towards Islam risks turning Britain into a hotbed of terrorism and Jew hating. Of course, this has already started.

Oliwagino Alefaua Yihiri

Those Hamas and Arabs was fishing for a war long time ago, of course they put there people front of them so they can be safe themselves, people have to understand war is war, and always some innocent people will die, look in early 1990's it was some country in Africa I don't remember the name 200 innocent people some of them children and woman die one day, they was waiting for water and food, they been killed accidentally by the Americans who was chasing the warlords, but the BBC never report this incident, British politician never mention it, we never see protest in the streets, why bother? it is Africa, they don't care if black people die, the media use to put down Africa for a long time and they always talk sh*t about it, now I guess they try to put down America and Israel, I will advise you don't trust the British government and their left wing liberal people, this people are dishonest they like one race and not the other

Ahab

'Israel is only 'liked/tolerated' when it somehow manages to survive a war against all odds,or rescue a situation,and where it is perceived as the under-dog.'

I think you'll find that true of most countries. Underdogs tend to be popular. What do you expect?

Augustus

So Israel just struck back at Hamas in Gaza. If leaders in the West won't, or dare not acknowledge why, they are either blinkered or perverse in the extreme. For several weeks prior to Israel taking action the Hamas terrorists had been daily launching rockets into Israeli towns that border Gaza. the more recent volleys of missiles had insidiously become more frequent - up to 80 a day -
and the payloads larger. Iranian backed Hezbollah terrorists were reportedly supplying their own training and expertise.

This war, and the world's reaction to it, are reflections of the modern age, and completely at odds with the past protocols of war. First is the now familiar Middle East doctrine of proportionality. Legitimate military action is strangely defined by the relative strength of the combatants. World opinion more vehemently condemns Israel's counter-measures, apparently because its rockets are far more accurate and deadly than previous Hamas barrages that were poorly targeted and thus not so lethal. If America had accepted such rules in WW2, then by late 1944 we, not the Axis, would have been the culpable party, since by then the once agressive German, Italian and Japanese forces were increasingly on the defensive and far less lethal to the Allies.

Secondly, intent in this war no longer matters. Every Hamas rocket was launched in the hope of hitting Israeli homes and killing men, women, and children. But killing Palestinian civilians was always incidental to Israeli military operations and was counter-productive to its objectives. But blowing up Israeli non-combatants was the aim of the Hamas barrages: the more innocents died, the more it expected concessions from Israel. By this logic, the 1999 American bombing of Belgrade, aimed at stopping Milosevic, was, because of collateral damage, the moral equivalent of the carefully planned Serbian massacres of Muslim civilians at Srebrenica in 1995.

Thirdly, culpability is irrelevant. The 'truce' between Hamas and Israel was broken once Hamas got its hands on new stockpiles of longer-range mobile rockets, weapons that were intended to put millions of Israelis at risk. Yet according to the Gaza 'rules', both sides were always equally to blame. Indeed, this weird war mimics the politically correct, zero-tolerance policies of our present education system, where both the bully and the victim are suspended once violence occurs. According to such morally equivalent reasoning, WW2 was only a tragedy, not a result of German agression. Once the dead were mounting up, it mattered little what the catalysts were for the outbreak of fighting.

Fourthly, with instant streaming video from the impact sites in Gaza, context becomes meaningless. Our attention is glued to the violence of the last hour, not that of the last month that incited the war. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 to great expectations that the Palestinians there would combine their new autonomy, some existing Israeli infrastructure left behind, ME oil money, and American pressure for free and open elections to craft a peaceful and prosperous democracy. Instead, the withdrawal was not seen as a welcome Israeli concession, but as a sign of Jewish weakness, and the intifada tactics could now be amplified into a new war to end the Zionist entity itself.

Finally, victimization is crucial. With Hamas' daily rocket attacks the hooded thugs beat their chests and bragged of their radical Islamic militancy. But when the payback comes, suddenly warriors are transformed into weeping victims, posing teearfully in front of news cameras as they deplore the 'genocide' of their own 'holocaust'. Well, at least the Japanese military did not cry out to the League of Nations for help once those mean marines landed on Iwo Jima.
But we all know why these Gaza assymetrical rules persist: Worldwide fear of Islamic terrorism, easily stoked up anti-Westernism, ditto anti-Semitism, and global strategic calculations about ME oil. But it still doesn't make them right.

Bobbie Cousins

I've just come back from university in frustration that there is a pro-palesntian rally. When i approached them to ask why they want my money i was happy to give, to help the aid of the palestinian's. On the other hand they told they me exactly what they thought of Israel and the Jews, without me disclosing my faith. Thanks Melaine, i can now go back with a sustainable argument.

Koestler

Ms Phillips has sometimes praised the work of Brendan O'Neill. Perhaps she would like to quote from this article which reminds us Israel's support for Hamas:
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2007/feb/12/00017/
It's called blowback and the fools who helped to bring it about should be punished.

hadrian

Incidentally, one had to laugh at the response of some Gazza inhabitants to a query put to them by one of the British journalists after the bloclade had been lifted by Israel. He wanted to know, did they still support Hamas? The sheer evasion and evident panic of those so questioned just proves the terror Hamas wields over its 'own' people.

Sanchez

How's that Hadrian? There are people in Israel (and I'm sure most of you won't believe this) who oppose military action and would not answer a direct question like that on tv. Does that prove Israeli terror wielded over it's own people?

Michael Taylor

Like others, I think the admirable Ms Phillips shouldn't be too quick off the mark here. A poll by YouGov for the Sunday Times showed, inter alia, that only 18% blamed Israel for the conflict, vs 24% for Hamas. When you consider the viscious and ugly performance of the BBC throughout the conflict, that's pretty good evidence that the British are not successfully being brainwashed into anti-Semitism in quite the way Ms Phillips suggests. Thank God.

James Christie

Hamas is a death cult, they killed their own children, they seek victimhood. They put their own children in harms way , this is evil. The Gaza strip could blossom, Jobs, prosperity and right on the mediterrian sea.

Carl

Koestler - thank you for reminding us of that fact. People should be aware of how Israel's early support for Hamas helped create the organisation we see today.

fellow traveller

N. Simon

"fellow traveller, it's the Saudis who are lending McBroon the bank bailout money!
Don't you read the news?"

I do. But you can't have it both ways. When wealthy Jewish families owned and managed many of the world's powerful banks, it was offensive to assume that they somehow used their influence to run government policy behind the scenes. It's a stupid story that both right and left have sometimes used to whip up prejudice against Jews.

It's just as offensive to allege that some undefined shady arabs run the UK government's foreign policy according to their whim. It's an equally stupid idea that whips up a different prejudice.

Frank P

patricia

Anyone who proselytises on behalf of the enemy in a time of war can hardly be described as 'perspicacious' regardless of their race or religion (or lack thereof). Moreover I have never held that every Jew is right about everything (I've even been known to disagree with Melanie on a couple of occasions but never, as you say, without due consideration -and always with great reluctance).

In fact I have met some of the most accomplished crooks in the World who are Jewish, but so far none has threatened to kill me simply because I am not Jewish and I found that pro-rata, as a race, Jewish people were far less inclined to commit crime than most other races. Their beneficial contribution to all societies in the world is extensive and well chronicled over the ages. I have enjoyed the benefits of their wisdom and business, financial and clinical expertise personally and been inspired by Melanie’s writing. She writes extremely logically with fine analytical and synthetical prowess about the subjects she covers in her journalism and exhibits courage and wide experience: some first hand - and some garnered from obviously reliable sources. My life experience resonates with her analysis of her own experience and her reportage. She also writes occasionally about self-loathing Jews and offers explanations. For myself - and I am not Jewish - I happen to believe that Israel is our only true ally in the Near East, that Hamas is oppressing, brainwashing and causing unwarranted slaughter among the people of Gaza; that most Arabs want to see the back of Hamas, which comprises a bunch of murderous deluded thugs bent on Islamic jihad of the most barbaric order. Israel is doing now what we should have been doing ourselves and would have to have done eventually regardless. I do not swallow the pictorial evidence coming from the rigged footage supplied by pro-Hamas propagandists in general, or the statistics they stack up for the consumption of the gullible, about civilian deaths. I also know as a result of much testimony from their own lips that they are prepared to sacrifice their own children in the cause of militant Islam. Terrible things happen in the prosecution of war and those who wish to avoid the consequences should refrain from provoking war by rocket attacks on their neighbours. As for the moral equivalence that I see bandied around here from time to time - phooey! And you know it I suspect. I have read your comments in the past and can never quite fathom your presence here or the purpose of it. I haven't met such spite since I once had a lesbian informant who was forever trying to grass up her spurned butch lover as a wicked Madam, which indeed she was, as was my informant herself. In the end they both paid for their sins - then they both became informants: regarding, of course, everyone else on the business. That's life. Were you dumped by a Jewish businessman who paid a Jewish shyster to persuade a Jewish judge to refuse you enough alimony, or something? I think we should be told. Your sure do seem to have a bug up your fundament about something. I would apprciate a considered reply if you have the time.

pm317

Video: UN ambulance used to move Hamas troops (not injured, still standing with guns in their hands)!
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/01/un_ambulance_used_for_hamas_tr.html

hadrian

No, Sanchez, this was a question on whether they supported Hamas, not their actions. The utter panic at being put on the spot could not be concealed.

Original Tony

The Bible says that it will be the New Roman Empire (EU) that will eventually offer a brief and false peace treaty for Israel. Someone with immense diplomatic skills will soon arise to bring this to fruition.
The fact that the Bible is so incredibly accurate is the fact that it was not the Americans rushing to Cairo and Jerusalem to end the Gaza war, but the German, Britsih, Czech and French Premiers!!
Isn't this simply amazing! Keep your eye open for a final peace treaty and then set your watches for Armeggedon. It is so close now!

Danny Lemieux

Funny, really, how so many otherwise mild-mannered people in the UK so roundly cheer those that openly vow to destroy or subjugate those self-same Brits. Stockholm Syndrome?

Kip Frasz

The IDF should consider a foreign legion for Gentiles wish to join and help the Jewish people in their time of need (again).

phil

sanchez that shows what little you know about Israel at least and jews in general .They will always speak their mind and always stand up for justice -Anyone in Israel can say what he wants without fear or favour -have you been there -no of course not !

phil

[NGUK -it should be made plain that we are not all paranoid here -we are angry -yes ,but we are also aware that both Israel and the Jewish people have many treasured friends in the UK .So many people who are not Jewish have come to me and said that although they are quiet citizens they support Israel to the hilt -Personally I have no thoughts that our government would wish to support hamas and its friends over a democratic friend as Israel is .These are very emotional times for all of us and hopefully when this calms down the producers of hate will disappear into the nether regions from whence they came .

peter

The imagery of the invasion doing the internet rounds, the sickening shots of burned Palestinian corpses and IDF soldiers pointing guns at children, say it all.

David Guy

The well-dressed lady ‘can’t wait till Israel disappears off the face of the earth.’

In her world view would there be any another country that deserves this fate? She probably would be deeply insulted to be called antisemitic but the one country she wants destroyed is the one country calling itself Jewish.

Nachman

Say what Peter? That you are selective in your views? War is not pleasant? Nobody says it is. But before you bleed all over the place take a look at the pictures from the Sbarro Restaurant in Jerusalem after your pals bombed it or the dining room of the Park Hotel on the first day of Passover after your pals did for 26 Jews celebrating Passover. None of those pictures would be around if the Hamas terrorists were blotted out, but of course it's far easier to blame it on the Jews.

Carl

Phil, so if anybody in Israel can say what they like without fear or favour, how do you account for the treatment of Mordechai Vanunu?

Nachman

Mordechai vanunu breached Israel's version of the Official Secrets Act. As such he put the country and its citizens in jeopardy. He thought he was acting out of the best of motives but if his misguided and criminal activities put Israel in jeopardy he, as all traitors do, deserved all he got.

Michael Sweeney

'The Bible says that it will be the New Roman Empire (EU) that will eventually offer a brief and false peace treaty for Israel.' Wow Original Tony - this is very original indeed. I didn't even know the Bible was aware of the EU.

Carl

@Michael Sweeney - the nutjobs will be claiming that it is all based on Tony Blair. I wonder what the Bible has to say about the UK adopting the Euro?

phil

Frank P
January 19th, 2009 3:43pm -I hope you will not mind if it is me that says that was priceless :)

N. Simon

Fellow traveller,

"When wealthy Jewish families owned and managed many of the world's powerful banks, it was offensive to assume that they somehow used their influence to run government policy behind the scenes. It's a stupid story that both right and left have sometimes used to whip up prejudice against Jews."

You mean the Rothschilds... there were no other Jewish families who owned and managed banks.

Honestly, from reading your posts, one would have thought you'd swallowed ALL the antisemitic David Duke propaganda!

The Arabs have the largest amount of wealth because of their oil. AND they've loaned OUR government the money to bail out the banks. In return, the taxpayer will owe a lot to the Arabs and we'll soon see new legislation creeping in to the UK regarding sharia law, Islamism, etc...

N. Simon

Kip Frasz, there are quite a few non-Jews in the IDF.

David Lindsay

Read it and weep -http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7835302.stm

Truly, between tomorrow's events in Washington and any Likud victory next month, Britain will have the most Zionist government in the world.

And no wonder that former Cabinet Ministers of both parties have been among those telling me not to write on my blog, even in jest, about the drafting of our least accomplished 16-year-olds directly into the Israeli Defence Force, because "if the wrong people read that then it will happen". How long can we now have to wait?

Maximilian

"IDF soldiers pointing guns at children, say it all."

Like this one:

http://tinyurl.com/9o56ry

seb

NGUK

Might I suggest that if, even only extremely infrequently, one heard people expressing obscene and loathesome sentiments about any other group, such as people from the West Indies, it would be reported and it would be deemed scandalous. Many will deny that anti-semitism exists and other will admit to its existence but explain it away as something too small to be worth worrying about. I've met lots of young people who seem convinced that 'the Jews own everything' and that, as a result, 'they deserved what happened to them'. This is vile and it is, in my experience, widespread and it would be considered appalling if the objects of such mindless loathing belonged to any other group.

An American

It seems that all humans have prejudices to certain degrees toward other nationalities, religions and countries, etc...those two British ladies were just stating what they believed...I am not apologizing for them, it's just a sad fact.

I believe prejudice will always be with us...at least until gene pools are homogenized wordlwide...which should that happen...I would find sad too.

We all started out as tribes. Tribalism helped keep tribe members safe from outsiders, whether it was from disease or aggressive invaders trying to take stored foods, women, property, land.

Man is nothing but an advanced animal. That's why I've come to perfer my dog over most humans and that goes for those two well-dressed British ladies.

Dixon

For what it's worth, another little sign of the way things are drifting. I went into Bristol's central Lloyds today...a listed building I believe...and found its exterior pretty well wrecked, with windows smashed and gigantic areas of Portland fascade covered with red paint hurled by "peace marchers" last Friday.

So dreadful was the sight that they had to have a man out front to assure customers that it was OK to enter. One man had the job of scrubbing it off, a painstakingly slow procedure with a bristle brush. it resembled those movies from the third Reich of Jews being made to scrub the streets.

Inside, where I would usually expect a que of maybe 15 people, I was the only customer. There was a shocking pall of quiessence hanging over the place.

This is one of the top three banks. Its crime? Well, I guess these nutters think all banks are owned by Jews and...in their lovely multi-cultural, peace-loving sort of way, they think all Jews are responsible for the actions of any Jews, anywhere.

Its no longer about Gaza. Whatever one may think of Israels actions, this is pure racism of the most undiluted and visceral kind.

I am beginning to think that "racism" really does only exist in such a pure form in relation to Jews.

I don't understand it. I cannot comprehend the muli-millenial persistence of this most atavistic and singular irational hatred. It cannot be explained by blaming Jews for the Crucifixion...most of these people are not Christians anyway!

I don't believe the Bible...EXCEPT the Book ofv Revelations...maybe.

Dixon

Michael Sweeney
January 19th, 2009 5:35pm
'The Bible says that it will be the New Roman Empire (EU) that will eventually offer a brief and false peace treaty for Israel.' Wow Original Tony - this is very original indeed. I didn't even know the Bible was aware of the EU."

Crikey, the topic of cinema illiteracy crops up twice in one day!

Ever since "The Omen" it has been pretty much part of popular culture that the reference in the Bible to a new Roman Empire and a beast with nine heads refers to the EU, which at the time of the movie had nine members bound by the Treaty of Rome.

You may legitimately regard that interpretation as daft, but the existence of such an interpretation is simply a given. I'm afraid there is no excusing simple ignorance.

John Edwards

"Frank Furedi" the sociologist who Melanie quotes is of course the same person who used to be called "Frank Richards" when he was chief ideologist of the Revolutionary Communist Tendency which was the forerunner of the now defunct magazine "Living Marxism" and that peculiar organisation "The Institute of Ideas". As she has appeared on "The Moral Maze" with Claire Fox, a colleague of "Frank Furedi" in this organisation it is unlikely that Melanie was not aware of his background when posting this article.

The readers should obviously been made aware of it, particularly as Melanie's blog made many attempts to link Barack Obama with various Marxist fringe organisations.

Also any serious sociologist can tell you that your neighbours in a queue are not a representative sample of opinion on any subject whatsoever.

Ronnie

Carl, '...and they that joineth the Euro shall be smote, just as the Syrians were smote before them.' Redwood 3:11 (his letters to the Chelmsford Round Table)

Graeme from Canterbury

Melanie,
don't take too much notice of the Israel bashing media. I don't and neither do the vast majority of people. Hamas are to blame and no one else.

J. Isaacs

Frank P. LOL. No reply from herself yet. You really must write a book about lesbian Madams and Jewish crooks. It is bound to be a bestseller.

EthanII

Fatah says that Hamas has now arrested hundreds of Fatah supporters in Gaza as "israeli spies" and is using certain buildings as jails and even torture chambers. What sort of buildings? Hospitals and schools.

We've heard information like that before, and many "liberal" thinkers want to disregard it and not think about what it measn about the nature of Hamas; but this is information from Fatah, not the IDF. Hospitals and schools being used as torture chambers.

Get the point?

joeblough

There seems to be a real permanence to the hatred and demonization of Jews in Europe and the mohammedan block.

While it seemed for a couple of decades after WWII that at least European Jew-hatred had weakened, it now appears that it had simply fallen out of fashion and gone temporarily silent.

But it is now roaring back with renewed vigor.

Perhaps the 20th Century's main contribution to cultural history will be to have proven, yet again, that nothing final or permanent can be achieved in the realm of culture -- that barbarism is never more than a couple of generations away.

Perhaps that knowledge will be of some use to future generations in fighting off utopian movements.

There is no permanent peace.

It is ironic that it is the better aspects of culture that are so fragile, whereas our savagery and barbarisms seem so perennial and robust.

But so it seems to be.

So as long as people remember the ritualized mythology of Jew-hatred, there will be no safety for the Jews.

The lady at the tram queue in Furedi's story is very much her grandmother's grandaughter.

tommy3lions

I'm not british i'm English and I love Israel

phil

DAVID LYNDSAY your post is most confusing -can you clarify your message please -
meanwhile .Arab divisions over the Gaza crisis have re-emerged at a summit in Kuwait.

Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said Hamas had invited the Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip by refusing to extend a truce that expired in December.

Margaret

It is all so endlessly depressing and unreal. We haven't yet had the inauguration of "The One" in the U.S. that will begin to turn our country into a real cess-pool of division and bigotry and more anti-Jewish media lies.

We are about to actually enter the "one world order totalitarianism" that we know will be the death or imprisonment or cowing of decent people in our former free nations.

Pray, pray, pray that you have the strength to endure and remain good.

Groovy Times

Ah, the pro-Palestine anoraks are out, impressing us with their knowledge of casualty rates inflicted by the Zionist killers. There's nothing like crying crocodile tears for the victims of Jewish barbarity to trump the moral superiority stakes. But please don't misunderstand my contempt, it's not that Palestinian civilian casualties are unimportant, as I'm sure most of us reading here would agree, it's the conspicuous lack of knowledge or concern for other casualty rates in conflict zones like the Congo, Sri Lanka, Darfur, or a donzen other places where the death toll runs not in hundreds, but hundreds of thousands and millions. The barometer of the new anti-Semitism is the depth of the double standard by which Israel is judged, criticised and delegitimised.

Emmet Sweeney

Carl, yes 300 children were killed in Gaza, by accident on the part of the Israelis, by design on the part of Hamas, who used them as human shields. What then is your point? Consider this: Imagine if Hamas had the overwhelming military superiority that Israel enjoys, and they had freedom to go into Israel in tanks. How many Jews would be left alive in a week? Not many, if you believe Hamas' rhetoric. When are people like you going to wake up and live in the real world?

Joe Strummer

Its the Jews fault. They run Wall Street, they run American foreign policy, ergo Israel gets away with murder. This is some of the unadulterated Left wing tripe I've heard since the Gaza incursion began.

It is blatant anti Semitism and nothing else. Of all the conflicts happening in the world, especially the genocides in Africa, the British Left is still obsessed with Israel. Why is that, I wonder ?

I wonder if the " comrades " on the recent London anti -Israel marches asked their new found Islamofascist friends their views on women's rights, gay rights, etc ?

I am not Jewish myself, but recognise warped bigotry and hatred against the Jewish people when I see it.

KM

The mild mannered "Lady" is so reminiscent of a considerable number of bleeding heart leftie middle classes that have forgotten the basic tenets of survival. They are all in a rush to assist those that wish to destroy all western culture.

Do they really believe that if they throw Israel to the "WOLVES" that they will escape being the Main Course ??

It really sickens me to hear this empty (pass the sick bag) empathy for groups that would happily remove them and all our children from the planet to achieve their aims. For God's sake they hide behind their own women and children, rear them on a diet of mind numbing hatred and propaganda and send them out with sharp tongues and stones to pelt fully armed soldiers , then play grief stricken muppets on TV for the gullible. They do war hiding in schools and playgrounds etc ........just as they blow up buses and attack women and children at airports in the UK.

WE really need to catch a grip in the UK and be real people with real morals and support the rule of our Laws that led to our civilised way of life that they so Hate. Its one way traffic here in British Multi Cultural lala land..........all the way to moral and cultural suicide.

So for the record .......when they stop terrorising in the name of whatever....I'll give a toss ...

willy wombat

Nice to see that vitriolic hate still abounds in the coffee shop.
it doesn't leave much hope for the mideast does it?

Davidka

Someone and I forget who, said 'I would never join any club that would accept me as a member'. To me this means that I would never have to accept the truths of others without question simply for the privilege of belonging to the tribe and the warmth feelings that arise when one belongs to a group of like minded individuals.
For many stepping outside the consensus box is simply too painful ,as at minimum it leads to being ostracised and sometimes as in the case of journalists, university personnel etc may lead to loss of prestige and financial impoverishment.
when you join the club you dress and behave like the others and more importantly you must also think like the others.
Imagine if one BBC journalist stepped out of line and publicly declared he was appalled at the BBC's anti Israeli bias .
The Consensus that Israel is a pariah state is one that those who are independant thinkers can shatter without fear of backlash fron their peers.

Joan NZ

Carl, Take a lightly boiled asprin and sit down and truly start to think things through. The cause of the death of children in Gaza lies totally at the feet of Hamas who at the moment are killing and torturing hundreds of their fellow countrymen even to the extent of putting out their eyes. Wake up to the fact that these pitiful examples of humanity do not think like you. They are evil and they do not try to protect their children, many, many homes were booby trapped even with the families still in them. I have just seen 130 photos of little Israeli children killed by suicide bombers and another of four beautiful little chilren murdered by Palestinian terrorists who first sprayed the car they were in to disable it, then approached it and killed their Mother and her unborn son and then them at point blank range. (freedom fighters?) Carl, Israel has suffered for years and has held back for a very long time. A tiny country surrounded by hate, and do not get it wrong anti-zionism, anti-Israel, etc. is all anti Jewish people and that you will not understand unless you know the Bible. Allah is not the god of Judea/Christians. Please try and get hold of the book written by Joan Peters 'From Time Immemorial' It took over seven years to write and is very well docummented and thoroughly researched. I must say it does not put the England I was taught to love in a very good light, but may help you find some of the truth.

solemnman

As to the veracity of the Hamas body count -I recall the famous "Jenin massacre".Arafat claimed 3,000 dead.Arikat reduced it to a less bloated 500.Each claim was accepted by the usual suspects as soon as it was uttered.UNRWA calculated the number at 56(50of whome were shaheeds) -which was in agreement with Israel's estimate .26 Israeli soldiers lost their lives so that Palestinian civilians would not lose theirs.

nosmo29

The Israel air force demolished two key Hamas war systems in the first 4 minutes of its massive offensive on Gaza Saturday morning, Dec. 27. The bombers destroyed six mosques in Gaza City which held the terrorists' biggest weapons arsenals and scores of "beehives" containing launchers primed for the simultaneous, automatic release of hundreds of powerful rockets against Israeli cities.
These launchers were rigged for precision-targeting in Israeli town centres. They were operated by a unit of 300 special Hamas operatives trained for their mission at Syrian military bases under the instruction of Hizbollah rocket specialists.
The aerial offensive knocked out 80 percent of the rockets Hamas had prepared to launch and saved Israel's southern cities. The Palestinian Islamists were left only with inferior projectiles. Therefore, 98 percent of the hundreds of missiles they managed to fire in the 22-day war missed their targets and exploded in open ground.

Adam B.

Posters should be aware that Carl has repeatedly refused to condemn the Hamas charter, which calls for the extermination of every living Jew. So now you know who you're dealing with.

Adam B.

peter, the imagery of Palestinians celebrating in the streets during 9/11, the cheering as poeple fell to their deaths from the towers rather than get burned alive, the praying for more Israeli casualties in the suicide bombings in Israeli cafes and buses, handing out sweets at every Palestinian atrocity which deliberately and SPECIFICALLY targets civilians (one American child on holiday in Israel was severely wounded in a suicide blast, Hamas issued a statement saying they hoped the child would die. When he finally succumbed in hospital a few days later, Hamas issued a celebratory statement, enjoying the fact that they had murdered yet another Jew). Compare and contrast with the Israeli reaction to the war in Gaza, no celebrations in the streets, no prayers for more casualties, just a resignation that at least their government was doing something after 8 years of rocket attacks, and even more years of suicide bombings from Hamas, which had killed hundreds of Israelis. What does the difference in these reactions TELL YOU?

Adam B.

Carl, weren't several spies for the USSR imprisoned in the UK? Or is that different?

Vision Aforethought

@Margaret: You are so spot on. It is not Obama that will make this happen, it is those who THINK he represents such 'values', even if he may not. (Who knows what lies within his soul?)

The problem with leadership is you attract all kinds. What's that term? 'Hangers on'.

Anyway, the secret to surviving all this is to do three things:
a) As Mr. Baden Powel said, "Be prepared."
b) Lay low.
c) Maintain moral by surrounding yourself with people who 'get it' and care.

Else you'll get really lonely and frightened.

:)

Dixon

Margaret, don't worry about it. Don't get so bleak. When the last of us Jeremiahs have passed on we will be leaving the obnoxious tribes of todays youth to inherit and endure the horror they have ...with their marching and ranting...helped to create. So you see, there's a silver lining to the storm-clouds of the Caliphate!

In fact, having just watched ANOTHER movie ( not a Tim Burton this time ) featuring obnoxious young people styled to appeal to an obnoxious young audience, I find myself somewhat consoled by the prospect of these heartless brats having to live out the latter half of their lives under oppression, reminiscing fondly about the lost freedoms of their youth and being derided as seniliscent fantasists by the young of tomorrow!

It's quite a chuckle really!

jose garcia

"Carl said"
Melanie, over 300 Palestinian children have been killed by the IDF in the past few weeks. What was your point again?.

the point was
1/ dont be a coward and shoot from in between civilians when there is a war going on.

2/ dont democratically elect a party who puts explosives belts around children and sends them to kill civilians from another country
.

3- dont start a war with a soverign country in the first place.

Nancy Baumgartner

The Jews have always been the "canaries in the coal mine". God help us all.

Original Tony

Ronnie, Carl, Sweeney...don't mock something that you do not understand.
Time will prove Bible prophecies are accurate. Time will be the test.
Afetr all, the entire Bible revolves around Israel, a tiny speck of land, that no power on earth has eradicated. I wonder why this is?......mmm...God perhaps??

Miranda Rose Smith

Regarding that well dressed lady who couldn't wait till Israel disappeared off the face of the earth: First of all, she was no lady. Second of all, did she not know that if she ever got her wish and Israel was, G-d forbid, destroyed, England is also on the Islamofascist hit list? Does she know how Arabs treat well dressed ladies?

Ronnie

Original Tony, I fear that only you have access to that particular 'understanding'. How many times have you seen Raiders of the Lost Ark I wonder?

The New Testament is universal, regardless of the political circumstances of its final compilation at Nicaea, it is still intended for all mankind.

phil

One thing is so predictable on these threads and that is that when a critic gets an answer he/she disappears -, ,sanchez and tango to name but TWO on this thread ,have I wasted my time ?no I don't think so -ADAM B persuaded long ago never to let them getaway with lies.

Ronnie

Miranda Rose Smith, from what I've seen, well-dressed ladies are showered with cosmetics and jewellery, put up in London's best hotels for a month devoted to shopping and driven around in the luxurious seclusion that only a limo can provide.

AngloWelshDragon

What the so-called intellectuals and elites may think is one thing but, with a lorry driving husband, I get to sound out white working class men and women on the street and their opinion is overwhelmingly that the BBC is biased and Israel is right to defend itself from our common enemy, the islamofascist nutters with their western leftie groupies. Take heart, Melanie! From your vantage point our nation must sometimes look utterly spineless but from my vantage point I cans ee there are still hearts of oak in abundance. Lions led by donkeys, unfortunately.

AngloWelshDragon

Melanie, over 300 Palestinian children have been killed by the IDF in the past few weeks. What was your point again?
Carl

Honestly Carl!If Hamas says it and the BBC reports it it must be true? Doh!

Dixon

Just speculating now...I wonder if the deep-rooted preoccupation of the European Left with Israel, out of all issues, is a legacy of the fact that in the Cold War most Socialist parties were covertly sponsored, financially supported and tacitly directed by the USSR? The USSR of course regarded Israel as a prime enemy, not least because of the huge numbers of its own people, including scientists and engineers, who wanted to emigrate there, the so-called "Refusniks".

Now the USSR has gone, might it be that the imprinted virulence of the Left for Israel is a mindlessly self-iterating programme?

It's certainly mindlessly self-iterating!

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Ronnie: Well dressed women won't be riding around in limos if the Arabs succeed in imposing sharia law on Britain.

[NGUK]

Seb:

I am sorry to hear of the hateful remarks that you have witnessed, and I do not doubt a that such things are on the rise.

Where I live in the UK, one occasionally hears in everyday life ignorant and prejudiced remarks about many minority communities that reside here, including, very regrettably, but still rarely, the Jewish community.

Generally speaking unless such remarks have been made by a prominent person or in a very public manner, they are not investigated or reported at all.

In addition, some people in the UK, or even the British government, often oppose causes around the world that, morally, they should be supporting.

You could say that these things are a stain on the reputation of the UK, but you should not draw the conclusion that 'the British' desire the 'annihilation' of
anyone or anything, least of all the State of Israel.

On this occasion, UK and the EU have failed to give unqualified support to the recent IDF operations in Gaza, and some elements of the British media, including the BBC, have covered the conflict in a slanted manner that does not recognise Israel's responsibility to defend her citizens or place sufficient emphasis on the culpability of Hamas.

My point is that is does not follow from this, and is unfair to suggest, as Melanie does again, in her WSJ article "Britain’s surrender" that the entire UK political establishment is eaten up with atavistic antisemitism and has capitulated to the agenda of fringe islamist elements.

If you wanted to alienate British public opinion at a time when it is important that disinformation targeting Israel and her supporters be exposed and rebutted, and when British servicemen are being killed in a bloody struggle against islamist forces in Afghanistan then I would suggest that making hyperbolic claims here or in the US press would be a good way to go about it.

Ronnie

Miranda, I've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary.

An American

I am so very depressed today.

We will be swearing in our first Socialist, Muslim President of the United States of America today.

The people that voted Obama in are now howling for Bush, Cheney and any other Republican's heads within their hysterical reach. They want to destroy the two party system in the US and have complete socialist control...and by golly, I think they may have done it.

With our country in dire straits economically...Obama is spending three times what Bush did on his inaugurations to the tune of one hundred and fifty million dollars.

Obama says we will all have to make great sacrifices, but I don't see any sacrifices coming from him or his army of managers...this inauguration is completely over the top.

All men like Obama need the adulation and feeling of power that enormous crowds of adoring worshippers bring...think Stalin and Hitler.

Obama has accomplised nothing in his short life except run for political office. He's not written or had passed a single bill of importance. He took and sold drugs in his youth. He threw his grandmother under the bus and called her 'a typical white person' and spent just one hour at her death bedside while vacationing with his family in Hawaii. He became a US Senator by finding and turning over the ugly divorce papers of his opponents to the press. He filled another state senator's seat while she ran for a higher office and then reneged and wouldn't return it when she asked for it back. He attended a black power church with Muslim associations for 20 years that preached hate and the destruction of all white people and the US goverment. He called his pastor, Rev. Wright his father figure and mentor but threw him under the bus too when Wright was too outspoken and truthful of where he and his church stands on issues. He married a women who is bigoted against whites and has only black managers surrounding her who said 'for the first time in her life, she was proud to be an American'...not once but several times...now that her husband was going to be president. Michele was so toxic and hateful, that Obama's campaign hid her the last 6 months of the campaign.

Obama was raised a Muslim and remains a Muslim. He claims that he is now a Christian but there are no baptism records nor does he attend a church since leaving Rev. Wrights church...There are no birth records showing he is an American citizen. All written matter from his time at Columbia and Harvard has disappeared....too Communist in nature, I suspect. Many people suspect Obama's books have been co-written by his good friend Ayers, a well-known Communist and US terrorist.

Obama is a advocate of Marx and believes in distribution of all US individual's hard earned income. He plans to form an internal army as large as our armed forces that pledges alliegence to him. He along with the socialist Democratic Congress is busy turning a capitalist country into a socialist country as quickly as possible...I find it interesting that our bad economic situation reared its ugly head just 6 weeks before Obama's election.

Obama and his cronies need to act quickly before the American public wakes up to what a socialist country is all about. Complete control of free speech and mind, loss of the right to bear arms, poor housing and life style, poor medical care, etc.

There must be greater powers and money behind this charismatic, egotistical, empty suit..it may be decades before we see who perpetrated this enormous fraud on our American citizens.

Hopefully, I won't live long enough to see the complete destruction of what I, as an American, believes was one of the greatest country every formed on earth.

YA

BBC and Sky presenters have been wearing for 3 or 4 recent consequitive days - strict, demonstrable, blinding black.

That is not a coincidence certainly, but solidarity with Gaza victims.. - expressed in our British way, with humility, brightness, and elegance.

Now - without trying to sort the dead, which is nauseating, really, - just one question:

Why didn't they wear black after Mumbai, 7/7, Madrid, Bali and other multiple casualty events of that type?

Was it low motivation?, or callousness?, or luck of conscientiousness?, luck of fantasy? - or maybe they weren't just instructed to wear black, at that time?

stanley Jerusalem

YA - I do recall Peter Sissons being publicly criticised after 9/11 for wearing a brightly-coloured tie. We Brits have to keep up our values. Sod the country, keep the manners.

An American

Dixon, It's true that these ignorant, obnoxious young people deserve the future they have brought upon themselves...but what about the good ones? My grandchildren aren't part of the crazy, destructive direction our countries are heading in...and they will be the ones to suffer...God help them.

Ronnie,
You sound just a little envious.
These 'well-dressed' women were queing for tickets for the train...just like most everyone else in the UK. Where did you come up with limos, jewels, etc....since when does dressing nicely mean that you are filthy rich...You have a proletariat frame of mind.

Leslie

I get the impression that Ronnie isn't talking about well-dressed British women riding around in limousines,but I could be wrong.

A Guillian

An American, wherever Obama is he looks more western and more Christian then any one else, America was not doing well since the beginning of 21 century, don't be depress, because America would not be the best country in the world, welcome to the real world, do you remember Babylon? the city-state, there was a time it was world best place and if America don't became the best place on earth don't be surprise, C'est la vie!

phil

An American I really am sorry to read your last post .I can almost feel your pain ,but I must tell you that apart from these threads on the speccy I hear almost universal hope and praise for your new President.I am writing this to you because I normally agree with your sentiments and I am truly bewildered by your thoughts on this matter -why have virtually every intellectual I have seen interviewed spoke so highly of him ?---------

The invective I saw on these threads particularly from the one I referred to as the fragrant one (now disappeared)was never true ,nor were her accusations ,but you were a different story -never rude ,a sensible and balanced lady but totally appalled by the spectre of an Obama presidency -what I am really asking you is why you are so out of sync with the mass of intelligent Americans thatI have spoken to or heard .I hope you will feel able to tell me .I have of course read what you said earlier ,is there any possibility that you have got it wrong -?-I. sincerely hope so .

My regards to you and my best wishes for a better world for all of us .

Mike

phil: Wasted your time doing what phil? Don't you think that some people have better things to do with their lives than sitting all day in front of a computer for gods sake?

phil

Mike-you obviously don,t -why do you set yourself up like this ?it brings the worst out in me :)

An American

Phil,
Thank you for your comment.

But you really don't get it.

Are you happy where the UK is presently? Do you believe that it has gone too far left politically? What I am trying to say is that the US is in a spiraling decline...many Americans can't see what is happening to this country.

There is a Messiah worship going on that is downright scary...Obama has replaced Christ or a deity for many of these incredibly gullible people and he and his handlers are playing it up to the hilt. Many Americans have lost their compass in life and don't have anything to believe in so they put someone like Obama on a pedestal to worship. I've always wondered how people like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Castro, etc. came to power. It was their rhetoric and when times were vulnerable in their country. 99% of blacks voted for Obama because he is black and only because he is black. If that gives them pride, that's a good thing but it will not help make a difference in the direction our country is taking.

America has a cancer that is called socialism and it has metastisized with Obama's recent election.

Your statement that all the intellectuals support Obama isn't true...1/2 of this country didn't vote for Obama or socialism and that includes many intellectuals. Believe it or not my husband and many of our friends would be considered intellectuals. And many of them didn't vote for Obama.

You are a nice fellow but you do seem to have rose colored glasses on when it comes to 'The One'.

Suffice it to say, we'll never agree on Obama...but history will tell the real story, by that time I'll be long gone.

Actually, I miss Verity...she was an interesting read.

Conservative Cabbie, I would be interested in your take on the recent election and my comments.

A. Guillian,
That's easy for you to say... you're French.

Ronnie

An American, thank you for writing the third paragraph of your 3.13 pm post. I don't agree with you but at last you have given rational and understandable expression to your perfectly valid fears. I respect that.

phil

An American to answer your question ,no I am very unhappy with some of what is happening in the Uk at present ,but I am sufficiently proud of our past to.
believe we can come again and these uneducated soundbiters will be put in their place-.This country rose against tyranny 70 years ago ,it was slow to wake but unstoppable when it did and we will do it again .

Now for the pres .I freely admit to knowing little about him apart from what I have seen ,heard and read . A good majority of folk voted for him and believe he is the right person ,who am I to argue with those on the spot -I am not a campaigner for him as you are aware -all I want is for him to be given his chance to succeed in making this the better world that he thinks he can do for us.--I can only pray that he succeeds.
Americans are not fools if they find he is an impostor they will not wait long to deal with him -You know I feel he is a good man but I also know I could be very wrong .I have learned over many years to trust my instincts ,no doubt you have too ,we also know that each of us means well so we will have to wait and see -------.

Just to close I normally would have had not so much to say on this matter but when I saw the one I call the fragrant one was telling such appalling lies ,I needed to say something .The lies she told about our "terrorist"professor were disgusting and when challenged would never withdraw or apologise,also .her remarks about O blacking up were beyond the pale .Criticism and opinions are fair game but denigrating lies do not sit well with me .I have no time for terrorists and certainly do not intend to be an apologist for him but it was affecting Obamas legitimate campaign and he was in no position to answer those unfounded allegations .Bill Ayers was an admitted trouble maker not a murderer as she insisted .

.I referred in the first para . to what made me unhappy in the Uk at present and that woman from the right ,together with the idiots on the left who display on these threads for all to see are part of the sickness we are enduring -I no doubt as well as you, grew up in a world where we disagreed mainly politely ,lot but firmly .now its who can make the worst insults -it gets us nowhere and the lady was the worst .more shame on her because she is educated .We both spend a lot of time here trying to make this world a better place in any small way we can , so may i say i despise those with wicked tongues who for their own self centred pleasure write hateful remarks .

ok enough of this "rant" i wish you well and with a sincere wish that your pres will prove himself to you.

The Real Deal

An American:

I was at first upset by the tone of your post of 1/20/09. I realize now that it was just your omission of the "In my opinion" disclaimer as though you were quoting gospel. I too have lived in the US long enough to witness the general dumbing-down of our national politics. I wonder if where we are today is not entirely where we belong on the downward spiral to which you refer. No one deserves to inherit anyone's problems but the situation is very complex and subjective. Please don't give up yet. I hope that you live to be pleasantly suprised. That the new President suprises us all. And that the change we face is not a change we should fear. Please hold out just a while longer. We owe it to our future to not lose hope

Merseymike

I am quite happy to say that I disagree with Zionism and do not think Israel should have been established in its present location in 1948.

Is that view not allowed in your 'brave new world', Melanie?

Yet another American

An American -- I agree totally with your posts on Obama. I did not like him from the "get-go" and like him less and less as time passes. We did not need a "celebrity presidency". And if you think that concept sounds banal, it's meant to. Because under the "celebrity" - which is simply to distract our attention - the more ominous cult of worship will flourish unnoticed until it is too late to stop.

Johan

Merseymike - your "view" (I place it in quotation marks because it is more blindness than view) is not particularly attractive. But like cancer, one cannot simply outlaw it, even though one wishes it didn't exist.

phil

Merseymike well you made it known Mike ,are we allowed to disagree with you ?If you are the lecturer who writes a blog on gay rights from the Mersey -welcome back where have you been ? I just hope you will allow the rest of us who may have very different feelings than you the same freedom to express ourselves .Do you know what Zionism is ?I really doubt it ,because if you did you probably would not dislike it so much -I will tell you if you want ,just ask .

An American

Ronnie and Phil,
Thank you for your kind words. I need them right now.

The Real Deal,
I've been fortunate to have lived through the best of times the US had to offer. I'm just so very sad to be leaving a socialist state for my grandchildren.

Yet Another American,
Thank you for you comments and support. On days like this, it helps to know that there are sane thinking people out there. You wouldn't believe it by what we hear from our fawning, Obama worshipping media.

phil

An American just stay strong ,you are a real caring American as I am as Brit ,and it is those like us that our countries rely on -We have 3 main parties here and they disagree with each other but are mainly decent people ,One of us will be proved right over Obama and we will remain friends .lets hope for all our sakes it,s me. Our democracy relies on people with differing opinions arguing their case and hopefully eventually finding common cause .please believe me .we will .

Leslie

"When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews, You are talking anti-semitism".
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Mike,your blog makes it very clear where you stand.
Unfortunately,trolls ARE allowed on Mel's blog.

Patrick Villiers

I just can´t recall that there was the same heartrending outrage when NATO bombed Serbia and many innocent civilians were killed. When women and children are killed in Iraq and Afghanistan it is considered „unfortunate“ but unavoidable. Millions of civilians were killed during the Allied invasion to free Europe from Nazi oppression and many of them were Germans, killed by Allied carpet bombing. And this is where the difference lies. A large majority of the population of Nazi Germany and the population of Gaza had repeatedly shown their approval of a political system bent on aggression, genocide and the eradication democracy. Whereas the death of an innocent bystander is a tragedy, those who have actively promoted their own iniquitous regime must accept the full responsibility for the fatalities incurred in its downfall. Germany (where I now live) and the Fatah have learned this lesson. What more will it take for the Palestinians in Gaza to do the same?

The Real Deal

An American:

We are not socialist and you are not dead yet. Hang in there...

Best wishes.

charles soper

A repectful note to those who don't think there's a problem.

Might I suggest wearing an Israel flag pin on your jacket as weather vane for a couple of days ?
(you'll find them quite hard to purchase in the UK) - I can guarantee the experience will be revealing!
To those who won't put up perhaps they ought to shut up!

Greg

"Might I suggest wearing an Israel flag pin on your jacket as weather vane for a couple of days?"

That's a brilliant suggestion.

I would be too scared to do this ... but it would make a great subject for a TV documentary.

Wallace

Adam, You accept the numbers of the Arabs for the casualties. Think back. They reported 5,000 massacred at Jenin, then 500. They finally admitted to 53, most found with weapons by their bodies. The Israelis lost about 23 of their brave young men to my recollection. The Israelis could have bombed Jenin into submission.. They chose ground warfare so as to be able to differentiate between civilians and terrorists. They did the same in Gaza.

brian

I can hardly believe the language used on this website to describe the IDF.."brave young men"indeed!!Burchers more likely!!
When will the Zionist realise that they are the cause of their own unpopularity the whole world sees their crimes and cruelty..and there's lot's more to come..they
now face the question of the survival of the Zionist project

Richard

I would not care how many Arab men, women, and children Israel killed, if (if only) my country were not an ally of Israel. My wish is that no one identify me or my American people with what Israel has done, is doing, or does in the future. Cease being my friend and ally and I promise never to say anything about you ever again, except Mazel Tov and farewell.

chris smith

It's difficult to have any sympathy with an Israel that elects the glorifier of terrorism Natanyahu as its PM. An ex-member of the banned racist Kach party is now the foreign minister. And they've given Obama an ultimatum to deal with Iran or else they will.

I have no doubt that Mel P will still be defending Israel as they set WW3 in motion.

Richard

Another thing Melanie:
My racial stock is English and Scottish, but I am an American. I feel absolutely NO obligation to support ANYTHING that Britain does just because of my DNA or because of my religion. In fact, I wish the USA had stayed out of BOTH world wars. Or course, if the USA had not entered WWI, there would have BEEN no WWII, but that's another story.

Paul

There is not really much "anti-semitism" around because no-one particularly hates Palestinians except Jews. but everyone's really fed up with Khazars and their constant bleating for sympathy as a cover for their brutality toward their Palestinian and Lebanese neighbours.

Vox Veritatis

Oh please. This "article" is complete and utter rubbush. Nearly everyone I speak with, and I've moved in a lot of circles (intelligence, security contracting, public relations, entertainment, etc.), doesn't want to see Israel "destroyed", but there is wide-spread shock at the country's bad behavior, brutality, disregard for the international community, and their war-mongering ways. Israel's efforts at infiltration and subversion of the military, communications, and governmental apparatus of many other countries (particularly the U.S.) is nothing short of alarming. Israel's blatant war crimes (murdering of women and children civilians and USE OF WHITE PHOSPHOROUS munitions) in their latest foray into Palestinian Gaza should see them answer for their crimes in an international docket. The absurd fact that Israel is jumping up and down, foaming at the mouth at Iran building a power station is ludicrously hypocritical considering Israel's own thriving nuclear weapons program. And I could go on and on and on...

The fact is that people don't hate or mistrust Jews because of their RELIGION, rather, they're hated and/or mistrusted because of their ACTIONS and BEHAVIOR.