Hamas breaks cease-fire, Britain ignores it

Bill M

Must have been stray bullets from the Hamas victory parade.

Maximilian

"Still firing sporadically at Gaza's beaches" -- the BBC wording seems to suggest that Israeli gunboats are targeting swimwear-clad Gazans sunbathing in deckchairs. What else can "firing at beaches" mean?

David

Any comment on the use of White Phosphorous? Or are you ignoring it?

Mike

So this rabble of an Army withdraws 'tactfully'. No doubt the day by day wholesale slaughter of families and their homes was also done 'tactfully'.

Ordnance

I have made my second complaint in 10 days to the BBC over their Gaza coverage. Don't just comment on this blog - complain to http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complaints_stage1.shtml
or write to your MP. It's our money the BBC spends and their bias must not be in our name.

Dixon

David
January 21st, 2009 1:05pm
Any comment on the use of White Phosphorous? Or are you ignoring it?"

Hardly any chance of ignoring it...its been in our faces 24/7!

So Israel used a tool that the IIRC says they used legitimately. So what?

This isv like those dweebsc who claimed the use of Depleted Uranium shells made the invasion ofv Iraq a "Nuclear" war!

Peurile.

phil

Mike not wasting your time?did the rockets come tactfully ?did hamas slaughter their Palestinian people tactfully or did they just mutilate them -you know the ones who are fatah ?did they booby trap their own people and ensure they became victims tactfully ? from your friend tactful phil

Carl

The logic Melanie displays is remarkable. The Israelis firing into Gaza somehow is in line with a ceasefire! Perhaps they are hoping to hit another Palestinian family having a picnic.

Gary O

Ordanace, I assure you that many do write to the bbc and even more (like me) have given up altogether. They do not listen to you if you are not a muslims. I bet you'll get a standard letter fobbing you off.
And writing to the MP in support of Israel? You might as well throw the letter in the bin yourself and save on the postage.
Get this: In Britain, no one listens or cares if you are not a muslim.

Carl

Dixon, are you really saying "So Israel burned a few Palestinians, so what?"

N. Simon

"Tracers" contain white phosphorus and are used in all forms of conventional warfare.

Only Hamas ILLEGALLY fired rockets FULL of white phosphorus at Israeli civilian targets - but you won't get that from the BBC either!

Daibhidh MacAdhaimh

I recognise the futility of asking this question, but I wonder if the DAVIDS (above) of this world scratched the surface of their superficiality deep enough to condemn Russia's attack on Georgia? Yeah, I know the answer. I'm just clearing my throat like they do before they begin their tiresome, factually incontinent routine of boring us with things that just aren't so.
Speaking of incontinence. The BBC...

Edward in the USA

Any comments on the Finsbury Park mosque celebrating "The Magnificent 19" of 9/11? The Finsbury Park mosque doesn't think 9/11 was "an inside job".

W.B. Harris

No wonder you won’t hear about the Palestinian’s abuse in Gaza – I just read this headline that was released 13 minutes ago.

“Ex-KGB agent buys Evening Standard
AFP - 13 minutes ago

LONDON (AFP) - Russian tycoon and former KGB agent Alexander Lebedev vowed Wednesday to back "free and independent" journalism in the Evening Standard after buying a majority stake in the struggling newspaper.”

The words of common sense and freedom are going to be strangled even more in the British Media. The veil is being lifted even more about the coming of the brainwashing of the people who are going to be exposed.

Wake up and pay attention to that man behind the Green Curtain – it is evil in action!
Liberalism.....

There is no tapping your heels and be instantly carried away to Kansas... the tire of liberalism is ready to run over everyone of us.

Laura

David, anything to say about the 'tactful' Hamas charter that orders the indiscriminate killing of all Jews?

Adam B.

It's important that when you write to the BBC and get the customary wordrd letter, telling you that of course there's no bias and it's all in your imagination, that you escalate the complaint to the next level. Only then does the BBC take any notice at all. Don't be fobbed off - make a pain of yourself!

stanley Jerusalem

Laura, if you read these blogs regularly you will know that it is compulsory for Hamas lovers to be unable to read arabic or translations from arabic.

Adam B.

Whereas Carl's logic is..well, illogical. Carl, Israel RESPONDED (that means Hamas broke the ceasfire first, and Israel RESPONDED to its civilians being targeted). RESPONDED - a new word for you. Look it up. By the way Carl, DO YOU CONDEMN THE HAMAS CHARTER, which calls for the extermination of every living Jew? Still waiting for your answer...

And Mike's emotive substanceless drivel continues unabated...

Adam B.

Mike, that "rabble" of an army defeated 5 nations in 1967. Are you still wearing black?

logdon

Wicked or what? Er, let me think. (One millisecond later.) Yep, I'll go with the wicked. And I'll add wickedly idiotic. Here's an illustration as to how Hamas operate, straight from the horses mouth. On Monday I visited a Jewish run business to collect some work. After commiserating with them over the appalling rioting and anti-Semitism in Britain one told me a story of a friend of his, living in Israel. He had a small business in Gaza making clothing which employed around two dozen Arab women. He endured the crossing twice a day, in and out, realising that without such stringent security Israel was at the mercy of any indoctrinated Palestinian who decided that to be a shahid was the way to go. Go, in this instance being as accurate a description as it gets. Following the Hamas 'victory' his workshop was forcibly closed and destroyed and all the workers were thus unemployed. He then re-established within Israel. Within this little parable is a nice insight as to how the Hamas mindset operates. Destroying the Jewish business was paramount and in the process making the workers redundant was secondary. No doubt these women would then be described by UNRWA as the poor, starving impoverished of Gaza. No mention would be made of the fact that productive, gainful employment was their's until ruined by a racist entity intent on removing all traces of Jewishness from the area. No doubt these ex workers are now living on charity donated by the UN and EU, in effect, our money. We now learn that Brown has pledged a further £20 million of British taxpayers dosh to 'Palestine'. Yet the crackdown on British benefit claimants and the minimum wage earning working class carries on apace. Ten Pence taxation level anyone? We are on the edge of a financial precipice yet this numpty can quite blithely give our money away to a kamikaze mindset who's self destructive urges run the full gamut from deliberately removing earning opportunity to the full monte of the suicide vest. In effect Brown's gesture is akin to two fingers to the lower earning strata of our society. How much longer do we have to endure this crazy inversion of our national values?

Dave M

"And writing to the MP in support of Israel? You might as well throw the letter in the bin yourself and save on the postage."

Yes, I hate to say it but I agree with that and long since gave up trying to ward off the inevitable. If you shout out in the crowd the King isn't really wearing an invisible suit at all but is actually naked, most "learned" people will dismiss you as a fool. It's far more in vogue to heap praise on the wisdom of multiculturalism and the contribution of Islam to science et cetera et cetera. Political Islam has such a foothold now in the U.K., I figure many of us would be better of migrating to Australia or New Zealand. If people in this country really think Political Islam is the way to go, let them get on with it.

Neil Turner

I used to complain regularly to the BBC about their pro-Islam / anti-Israel rhetoric.

Must be honest here, I've given up now. They systematically ignore any criticism of their output, and my MP wasn't particularly interested either.

The only thing that will work is when the people of the UK decide enough is enough, and perform a mass boycott of the Licence Fee

Augustus

If even the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas can call for the overthrow of Gaza's Islamic Hamas rulers, why can't people like Carl, pathetically posting here, and aligning themselves so disgracefully with such thugs and destructive elements, shut up?

Speaking in Algiers on the anniversary of the 19th year of Palestinian independence on 15th November, 2007, Mahmoud said: "We have to bring down this bunch that took over Gaza with armed force, and is abusing the sufferings and pains of our people." In his speech he also lashed out against the "outlawed gangs
affiliated with Hamas in Gaza City."

So until Hamas is crushed there will be no peace or any 'two state' solution of any lasting worth.

Carl

Thankfully, the UN has unequivocally condemned Israel's barbarism. See:
http://www.un.org/ga/president/63/statements/onpalestine150109.shtml

What we now should see is a range of sanctions deployed against Israel, including a complete ban on any form of arms sales to it.

logdon

Now this!

From The Times
January 20, 2009
Government gives £1m to anti-extremist think-tank Quilliam Foundation

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5549138.ece

Read it all and gasp how Brown is brown nosing the 'communities'. There's obviously votes in them thar Muslim areas. Just as long as he toe's their line of course.

An American

Why in the world would Israel put Obama's inaguaration ahead of their security?

Are they worried about Obama's help and support in the future? Apparently so.

I will be surprised if Obama turns out to be a true friend to Israel. Obama is a socialist and we all know how socialists have treated Israel.

stanley Jerusalem

Carl - In an apparently parallel universe,otherwise uninhabited by sentient creatures, Carl said.......

Grumpy the Real

' we should see is a range of sanctions deployed against Israel'

What of....Brit goods.
Do ya still have any businesses that are currently solvent.

And weapons wise - mostly if not all are good ole US manufacture, with some smart tweaking by Israel.

As for the un - who cares a toss about the afro/arab general council as long as certain countries in the security council can see the wood for the trees.

anything i've left out?

Adam B.

Carl, is that the same UN which put Zimbabwe in charge of economic development and Libya in charge of human rights? Ah yes, such a moral bastion!

Do you condemn the Hamas charter, which calls for the extermination of every Jew?

T.T.

In your dreams, Carl. By the way, what is your stand on the hamas charter calling for the anhililation of all Jews? Just curious.

Augustus

Why are the majority of my posts on Melanie's blogs never shown?

Penny

What a pity that the UN doesn't see fit to condemn the barbarism of Hamas' educational system (i.e. hatred, martyrdom via suicide bombing etc), its supression of women, its inclination to spend its money on arms instead of welfare and of course - it's soon-to-be barbaric practice of crucifixion. To say nothing of the well-known fact that it uses people as human shields and has its military bases in highly-populated areas.

Given the 'New Age' undercurrents of the UN, one would have thought they would find such practices outrageous. Anyone with a genuine interest in humanity would see Hamas and other organisations like them fall extremely short in their understanding of 'human rights'.

If the UN condones the practices of Hamas and the more extreme form of Sharia law, with amputations, death sentences for raped women and so on - then heaven help us all. Including you, Carl.

Ordnance

>>that you escalate the complaint to the next level.<<

@Adam B.
What is the next level?

Adam B.

Carl, the question is why didn't the UN do anything about the years of rocket attacks by Hamas against Israeli civilians?

stanley Jerusalem

Oh well, might as well join in.
Carl, what are your views on Hamas' charter to obliterate Israel and kill all Jews?
Everyone else has asked so I thought, "Why not?"
PS Please read my name and address VERY carefully.

Maximilian

@Ros Morris, thanks!

Original Tony

Adam B 3.43pm...well said!! The UN is a waste of time and money and civilized nations should no longer finance it.

Adam B.

Ordnance, the next level is the Editorial Complaints Unit. After that, you can appeal to the Editorial Standards Committee of the BBC Trust. It's only at these levels that the BBC will notice you.

phil

carl ,silly boy, does anyone believe anything the Un says any more ,silly question sorry -you do -it is a collection of Muslim votes ,rained upon the west ,and the sooner it is disbanded the better .The west is splitting from the Muslim world ,any fool can see that and people like you are making it happen even faster.Our only hope is that sensible men like pres MUBARAK and a few others will prevail .Be afraid carl you will become a victim as fast as us .you will find shelter at the BBC for a few seconds ,but they will get them too .You could of course try to get into Israel where at least they will fight back .,but I dont htink the girls would like you there

you may not believe this but I have asked that your comments are never moderated as you are the scource of the most amusement we have ever had on these threads -FREDERICK FORSYTH could not come up with the stories you come up with -Please let us know when your book is out I will be the first to buy it -DOH its fashionable here .

Original Tony

Mike 1.22pm...how can you refer to the Israeli army as a rabble?
They are probably the most professional army in the world and having been in the services myself for five years I am simply amazed by their ability once they set their minds to a task.

Carl

phil, your punctuation is getting better, but still needs attention. I'm glad that you have given up on trying to use apostrophes, they can be difficult unless you know how.

phil

stanley Jerusalem PLEASE dont try to stop carl he is our only amusement on otherwise serious threads .we need a laugh in these awful times .:)

wonderer

logdon, your 2:53 is interesting. Can I infer that this Israeli businessman was able to cross into Gaza regularly to run his firm during the period between the forcible removal of settlers from Gaza in 2005 and the takeover by Hamas? It would be interesting to know (and use). Brave bloke btw.

phil

Original Tony-he gets all his info from fisk ,probably his groceries ,cast off coopers y fronts et al ,but no common sense ,its in short supply at fisks flat in hesbullahland -gosh I am having a busy half hour :)

Mike

phil: Seems to me that the behaviour of Hamas and the IDF, both on and off the field of battle, are not all that far removed from each other. Hence my description of the IDF as a 'rabble'.

tommy

I for one say "Thank Goodness" that Israel does not have the same mindset as its enemies who can produce only HATE
and shame on those who do not hold hamas to the same standards that they would hold Israel.

Just a few of Israeli accomplishments
http://tinyurl.com/8ljcdf

Palestinians? What have they invented --- palestine,

Sort of speaks for itself

Grumpy the Real

Mike - any personal experience 'on or off the field of battle'?

Anything
No.... not your Playstation silly.
The real thing.

And before you ask - Yes.

david lynn

Carl: What we now should see is a range of sanctions deployed against Israel, including a complete ban on any form of arms sales to it."

Israel will have to abandon its plans of buying weapons from Albania and Greece.

BTW, what weapon do you suggest IDF should use against Hamas?

phil

carl -"I'm glad that you have given up on trying to use apostrophes, they can be difficult unless you know how." well for a moment i thought you were going to accuse me of dropping them -have you run out of accusations -I have afew sites you could visit to find a few more -I,VE BEEN TO QUITE A FEW PINNOCHIO IS THEIR MASCOT .keep em coming carl we love em ,:-)¿"!any good?

Nicole S

The thing to do when writing to the BBC is to point out factual errors and omissions. They do feel obliged to pick up on these. It is laborious but more useful (though not hugely so) than complaining of bias, which everyone else does too.

Ordnance

What we need to challenge BBC bias is a organisation equivalent to MigrationwatchUK led by the very able Sir Andrew Green.

phil

mike you say the nicest things at least the Israelis have been elevated now to the status of hamas ,although it will be hard to find any mutilated citizens of Israel much less murdered one s-at least by their own people .They also put their kids in bomb shelters rather than train them to kill ,hate and die in places they never should be -tell that one to your mate fisk known as fisk the fib in wales ,and many other places for that matter.

Carl

david lynn - my weapon of choice would be the spoken word.

Alessandra P

Garry O, thank you, in Britain the media, the MP, the Police, the council, the government and mostly the British people who are left wing liberals listen Muslims it seems they favour them specially the extremist ones, the first people to get accepted in a good schools are them, the housing states also are full of those people, even the jobs, most of the sensitive jobs are done by them, the native people are in the waiting list

Penny

Ordnance - I would agree.

Might there be a way to initiate such an organisation?

In my view - and having spent time in Israel, thus aware of its day-to-day issues, I feel the bias is real. But equally, it concerns me that Israel may not be its only bias. How can anyone know what is truth and what is biased reporting on any issue?

With regard to writing to MP's - I doubt that it's worth the effort. I contacted mine on an issue I felt was extremely serious - an apparent breach of security at a well-known venue.

I didn't receive a response of any kind. I tried again via another medium, just in case the first had missed its mark. Nothing.

Penny

Carl - if you are aware of the various marches conducted by fundamentalists in recent years; many of which appear to support 'death' to whichever person has apparently offended them. Or if you watched some of the more extreme clerics speak of the West, you might understand why the rational, logical, spoken word of a typical Westerner doesn't seem to carry the weight we would hope for.

Also, remember Hamas is not a moderate organisation. It has declared its aims - in line with Iran, these aims are the total obliteration of Israel and its people - the use of the spoken word doesn't figure high on their agenda.

Squire Trelawney

Oh dear,

Carl, aka Carl-Jones from other boards (the internet news forums very own version of Ed Reardon) seems to have strayed upon this site.

Fortunately he will tire and retreat.

Gary O

@Ordanance et al.
There is an excellent web site "bbc Bias" (you might have heard about it, but still). It is populated by intelligent and articulate posters. Almost all have given up the ghost on bbc and have given up on complaining. The bbc (note lower case - my small measure of protest agaist them!)is a law onto itself. It has an arabic channel where it does the bidding for our home grown muslims and because nobody here ever watches it, it can say what ever without anyone ever complaining.
I regard bbc news as totally biased towards people of islamic faith - I'm afraid, in their eyes, the Israelis, Americans and Indians are less the terrorists!

Sheron from Oz

Carl
January 21st, 2009 5:11pm
I see that your choice of weapon is the spoken word. Your better than the Dalai Lama.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Non-violence_cant_tackle_terror_Dalai_/articleshow/3995810.cms

"It is difficult to deal with terrorism through non-violence," the Tibetan spiritual leader said delivering the Madhavrao Scindia Memorial Lecture here.

He also termed terrorism as the worst kind of violence which is not carried by a few mad people but by those who are very brilliant and educated.

"They (terrorists) are very brilliant and educated...but a strong ill feeling is bred in them. Their minds are closed," the Dalai Lama said.

He said that the only way to tackle terrorism is through prevention."
By the way since the "word" is so very important to you. Do yoy condemn the words of the Hamas charter calling, in words, for the genocide of all jews. Or are your words just words.

stanley Jerusalem

Carl
January 21st, 2009 5:11pm

david lynn - my weapon of choice would be the spoken word.
We surely tremble in anticipation. Do let us know when you have concluded. We wouldn't want to sleep through it.

Michael B

When Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, et al. break a cease fire it is either ignored or it is reported as a "threat" to the ceasefire (and I've read headlines and reporting that state as much simply and overtly). Iow - according to standard MSM outlets and news services such as Reuters, AP, AFP, etc. - only Israel can be at fault, only Israel can volitionally break the ceasefire - while actors such as Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, et al. are reported as if their actions are simply a byproduct of Israel's or others' actions or the environment. And that's so even though it's Hamas, Fatah and the remainder who openly seek Israel's destruction and seek to murder Jews in general. There's a strangeness to that, from any more reasonable/rational perspective, yet it's a view that's widely adopted.

One has to be a bit of a buffoon to actually and consciously believe such nonsense, and yet because that's the manner in which it's reported, promulgated and endlessly repeated on 24/7 news/editorial cycles, many people (i.e. "public opinion") consciously or unconsciously adopt or adapt to that nonsense. It's both a bemusing and a tragic set of phenomena, but there it is, plain as day. "Plain," that is, until the Chomskyists, the Left, Left/Islamicist alliances and still other malformed ideologues advance their profoundly contorted rhetoric and agendas.

But no more, because The One is in charge, and the planet is saved.

Ronnie

And how, Carl, do you think you would conduct a meaningful conversation with one who refused to acknowledge your existance, but at the same time kept kicking you?

Ordnance

@Penny
It requires that a capable and articulate individual come forward and that enough of the rest of us would be willing to subscribe financially on a monthly basis in order to support a research/monitoring team. The question is how important is freedom to us? Talk and complaining is cheap, but are we willing to contribute financially.

logdon

wonderer
January 21st, 2009 4:23pm

I was under the impression that a two way traffic went on up until Hamas 'won' the vote. However, as you say settler removal started before then so maybe it was before that period. How soon after the settlers went were the greenhouses etc destroyed? Logic tell's me that would be the timeframe.

Dixon

Was it Carl who raised the old chestnut about Israerl depending on foreign weapons.

THAT old chestnut. I put up a commment about that a few weeks ago. Basically, they DONT!

What Israel doesn't build itself is basically at least three decades old ( including the vaunted F16 ) and almost entirely second-hand or even third-hand. Apart from those old Fi6s and a few F15s, the gear they got from the US was largely old cast offs. In fact, Israel EXPORTS weapons. UAVs to Russia. Missiles to the US.

Go on Carl, give us a laugh, try to name a new weapon system imported in any quantity by Israel! And by "weapon system" I don't mean ammunition and loads.

Dixon

Next you know, Carl will sta\rt calling himself something else, and we will still recognise his comically inept attempts at rhetoric.

Mike

phil: Typical. You deliberately set-out to interpret posts to suit your own prejudices. I didn't equate the Israelis with Hamas. I was referring specifically to the IDF and the armed men of Hamas. The military high-command of the IDF are undoubtedly very good tacticians in the use of their ground-forces. However, in my view the man-to-man discipline of their soldiers leaves a lot to be desired. I think you will understand what I mean as more knowledge of the battle emerges. The rest of your post serves only as a means of trying to reduce your blood-pressure.

oao

the uk has now a govt and media which represents the majority of its public faithfully.

Dave

Hang on. Hamas broke the ceasefire. Very bad thing. Israel fired back. This is also a bad thing. That's how a ceasefire works.

Adam B.

Carl, what a joke you are. Do you think the spoken word would have worked with the Nazis? Do you think they killed millions because we didn't speak enough to them?

And do you condemn the Nazi Hamas charter, which calls for the extermination of every living Jew?

Adam B.

Mike "I think you will understand what I mean as more knowledge of the battle emerges."

Do you know something we don't? Or is that your prejudice telling you that the Israelis just must be bad, Fisk says so? And isn't it funny how none of your posts ever criticize Hamas - your condemnation only runs one way - guess which.

ahad ha'amoratsim

Here's a few more things you won't read in the UK or US press (see yourish.com or jpost.com for more details)
"As Operation Cast Lead draws to an apparent close, hundreds of Israelis, including those from rocket-battered communities in the Gaza periphery, are mobilizing to help suffering civilians on the opposite side of the border.

What started on Thursday as the private initiative of two young women - Lee Ziv, an activist in peace organizations, and Hadas Balas, a student at Sderot’s Sapir Academic College - has mushroomed into a countrywide drive to help the civilians of Gaza.

“There is no connection to politics,” said Ziv. “We don’t represent a side, we just see an immediate need for blankets for people who have nothing to cover them at night and milk for infants who have nothing to eat.” '

Yeah, those blood thirsty Israelis.

gary ashton

i have written to the bbc many times about their obvious anti israel anti jewish stance. my letters are detailed and quite accurate. pointing out all sorts of mistakes and bias. i give up. the only way is to just refuse to pay the license. if enough people do it they can't prosecute everyone and it would be like 2 million people clogging up the legal system. plus it may get noticed by the bbc and reported on by their idiot journalists (the irony) and thus the truth eventually be realized before it's to late. but are you willing to do that for the principle or not?

phil

Ronnie
January 21st, 2009 7:18pm

And how, Carl, do you think you would conduct a meaningful conversation with one who refused to acknowledge your existance, but at the same time kept kicking you?
RONNIE I THINK YOU MAY HAVE ASKED HIM A QUESTION THAT HE POSSIBLY WOULD BE AN EXPERT IN BUT IT DOES NOT DETER HIM -THICK IN SKIN AND HEAD AVOIDS PAIN !

phil

Mike I see ADAM B has rumbled you before I even woke up ,but he possibly does not know that you were the only journalist on the battle field ,apart from your mate fisk of course,who was able to see the IDF in action -so we should all be grateful for you observations which will be highly valued somewhere .

Colin Holland

aoa - "the uk has now a govt and media which represents the majority of its public faithfully".
I can only hope this statement was ironic, otherwise you live on another and less informed planet.

Mr H

Isrealis Buy weapons from abroad? -
Yes they use m16s but you may have heard of some of these:

UZI,
Desert Eagle (IMI)
Corner shot
Tavor,

All mass exports and all world class weapons.

But then if you knew anything about the region you would know that.

Carl

There are some brave IDF soldiers:
http://www.modoracle.com/news/Some-Israeli-Conscripts-Refuse-to-Fight_17268.html?category=all

George

Mike,

You can say many things about the IDF, but they are not a Rabble.

Carl,

Feel free to boycott Israel. Start with the Intel processor in your computer, the Microsoft operating system it runs on, ICQ and AOL instant communicators and your voice-mail (both land-line and mobile).

George

Mike @ 9:23 "The military high-command of the IDF are undoubtedly very good tacticians in the use of their ground-forces. However, in my view the man-to-man discipline of their soldiers leaves a lot to be desired. I think you will understand what I mean as more knowledge of the battle emerges."
I served in a combat unit of the IDF, my sons are both serving officers in combat units of the IDF and my son in law is an officer in a combat unit of the IDF reserves. Both my sons were in Gaza during the current fighting. I think that qualifies me to tell you that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Mike

Adam B, Grumpy and phil: Simply to let you know that, hopefully, the Moderator(s) is/are looking for my replies to your posts. They were uploaded am to-day.

Mike

George: Hopefully my post uploaded am today, but not yet published, will provide a reason why I described the IDF as a 'Rabble'.

Adam B.

George, Mike never knows what he's talking about. By the way, I'm glad your sons are safe. Let's hope that Hamas has been cowed, at least for a while.

phil

George
January 22nd, 2009 5:07pm you have no chance with mike he is well briefed by fisk ,who views all the battles with superman's eye ,the blind one -I hope you are all safe .,- and mike I do not need to see your posts ,you always say the same ,save your time ,watch a game and remain deluded .

Mike

George: It must have been a very worrying time for you with 2 sons and your son-in-law involved in the recent fighting. My only Army experience was serving with my Battalion,'jungle-bashing' in Malaya (now Malaysia)during the insurgency. It's far too early for a definitive analysis of the battles in Gaza to become known, but hopefully all the alleged so-called 'war-crimes' by both sides will either be proven or set aside. From my experience I find it very difficult to believe that any professional soldier would deliberately target women and children.

Derek Blades

Dixon, Jan 21. No. Carl did not raise an old "chestnut" about Israel acquiring modern weapons from abroad. I did.

I was noting the enormous disparity between the weaponry available to the Israeli army and what Hamas has been able to bring in through the tunnels. I said that most of the Israeli weapons came from the United States and you corrected me on this. I did not reply because of course the provenance of Israel's weapons is irrelevant. I was commenting on the glaring inequality of the weapons available to the two sides.

In their planes, tanks and gunships the brave boys and girls of the IDF loose off their white phosphorous and DIME weapons safe in the knowledge that Hamas cannot reach them. When I served in the British military we called that a "Turkey Shoot". Not a sport for gentlemen.

phil

Derek Blades-is this naivety or your own form of reasoning -do yuo believe the IDF should have gone in with water pistols and stones -did we not bomb the nazi,s in their cities from a great height ? did we not deal with sadaam with missiles ? what would you have done .your reply will be interesting .

phil

Derek Blades -or not as the case maybe -I never get an answer when the question proves too difficult .