So is Britain really going to break with the Muslim Brothers?

David

"although some traditional Christians also believe homosexuality to be a sin, the crucial difference is that unlike the Islamists they believe in the separation of religion and state, and so do not repudiate the fact that homosexuality is legal"

Ahaha. You are joking, right? Tell you what, have a word with some of the supporters of your favourite, Sarah Palin.

Max Kaye

I guess this means a break with Pakistan as the Pakistani government have just abandoned Swat to the taleban - a step which surely presages the fall of Pakistan itself.

Conservative Cabbie

David

"You are joking, right? Tell you what, have a word with some of the supporters of your favourite, Sarah Palin."

Wow, what a demonsration of liberal ignorance.

This is what Sarah Palin says about homosexuality. "But as for homosexuality, I am not going to judge Americans and the decisions that they make in their adult personal relationships." Sure seems like she wants to make it illegal.

HarleyDavidson

Melaine is correct. This, if correct, is a seismic shift that boggles the mind. Don't get me wrong. I sincerely hope Britain can address this issue if it is not already too late.

I honestly believe Britain cannot and will not address antisemitism until and unless Britain is willing to address the BBC, Guardian, and other "news" groups who willingly and knowingly are the real perpetrators responsible for spreading antisemitism in Britain, Africa, Europe, and within the Arabic nations themselves.

Its all well and good to try and address this issue, however, unless you're willing to address the source of the problem, the PURVEYORS of the problem as I mentioned above then little can possibly be accomplished. Which is the reasons why I don't believe much can change at all. Perhaps others here may feel differently. In any case that's how it looks from the outside to me.

Bill

David, I'm a supporter of Sarah Palin, and I agree with Melanie's take on the sin / legal issue of homosexuality relating to Christianity.

I largely run in Christian circles and I've never heard in my peer group any of the 'death for homosexuals' language as I'm sure you would hope.

ps, david: Ever darken the door of a synagogue or church to hear what actually is preached? Or are you projecting your Jew / Christian hatred?

You're clueless on this issue, although I'm sure you'll be able to find someone, somewhere among the 2 billion Christians on the earth to support your thesis.

Robert

How exactly was the war misreported? Most news reports from Gaza was accompanied by one from Southern Israel, on BBC and Sky, at least until the comparison became ridiculous. Were you watching Al Jazeera?

Wyn

Harley Davidson; once more you are spot on with your assessment. I do not see anything changing in the UK regarding the powers that be actually acknowledging the threat we all face unless and until the silent masses begin to growl. Optimistically perhaps, I see some evidence of this beginning to occur and if that growl becomes a roar then our leaders and their friends in the media will be unable to ignore it.

Felicitas

Let's not believe what the government is saying and the left wing liberal people, nothing is going to change they create this and they been superficial about it, for a long time they been talking about how multicultural Britain is, so what? but they did not think how there are more extremist fanatics in here then in Morocco or Egypt

sorry lefties it is kind of too late

Nicholas

The trouble is that whatever we feel about extremism this policy, if implemented, is another blow against freedom of speech. This rotten useless government sees everything in terms of legislation and "banning", as though banning thoughts, ideas and words is going to solve the problem. It won't. If anything it will just increase radicalisation and push the serious plotters further underground.

There are plenty of barmy proposals for radical change to Britain out there already (q.v. Harriet Harmon & co). If implemented this policy will either be dressed up to apply to any "extremists" (those pesky Church of England suicide bombers for example but not of course any socialist extremists) or targetted specifically against Muslims, which will be wrong and counter-productive.

Relevant to this is that which Dame Stella Rimmington has warned about civil liberties but Cameron, the Spectator and the right wing blogs have all ignored it. Why?

N

I just have to ask, what does homosexuality have to do with Muslim extremism? Where is the Guardian getting this?

I disagree with David's comment that Christians are the same as muslims when it comes to views of homosexuality, but you have to give David some credit, what do you expect people to think when "loving" Chritisans walk around with signs that say "God hates fags"? But to be fair: David, yes there are some Christians that do hate homosexuals but they don't represent all Christians and certainly not the teachings of Christ.

Pete

I would be delighted to see Rowan Williams, that notorious promoter of sharia law, labelled an extremist. Will he be banged up?

Lizzy

David - you have a lot to learn about Sarah Palin and about believing everything the media says. As Governor of Alaska, Palin upheld the constitution and vetoed a bill that would discriminate against same sex partnerships in property rights.

Do you homework and get over your problem with women in power. I am sick to death of ignorant comments about Sarah Palin.

Lee Jakeman

I'll believe it when I see it. My death is likely to occur sooner. And I'm not even old ....

American, while it lasts.

I hope Britain does not surrender and die. My ancestors emigrated to America from Lancashire in the late 1600's. I love the spirit of the British people. I see myself in their attitudes,speech,sense of humor,facial expressions,etc.

George Steiner

No Ms. Phillips, the British government is braking with nothing. All that has happened is that they have been listening to the noises from the undergrowth. On the economic front the government finds itself in the marde. They have decided the time has come for some electoral diversion on the Muslim question. It is not even smoke and mirrors.

gary ashton

nothing will change, sure the packaging may appear slightly different but israel will still be misrepresented as will jews.
the islamicfication of europe will just happen in stealth mode.
the bbc, the guardian and their ilk need to be sued to the tune of billions for negligence through the legal system. that may indicate to the public that something is amiss and in the future assist them to question the type of 'mass brainwashing' we have just seen. but somehow i don't see that happening given the general populations embracing of the lefty, islamic ideology.
left wing right wing, same old bird people. and this ones a turkey.

Joe Strummer

It is all too little, too late.

What any sane person would recognise as "radical Islam",the aspirations of The Caliphate, the wish for separation and non-recognition of man-made democracy, the brutal oppression of women, the appalling potentially lethal attitudes to homosexuals, etc, are now normal tenets of religious belief for tens of thousands of young and impressionable British Muslim youths today.

Certainly, many as they get older and hopefully wiser will lose or dilute these beliefs but a numerous hard core will remain true to what they have been indoctrinated to believe is their God's Will.

We face difficult times ahead.

Kiwi

Robert wrote: "How exactly was the war misreported?"
You can find out yourself by going to: http://www.honestreporting.com/

David

"get over your problem with women in power"

What problem with women in power?

Joan

Yes Robert, Kiwi is right. Pull your head out of the sand. The misreporting in New Zealand was absolutely scandalous. Your BBC has been extremely biased against Israel for years. Many do not trust it to present the truth.

tommy

Brown's labour government going to break with the muslim brothers
excuse me for a moment Ha Ha - Ha Ha----choo- that's better
At least they have learned something from islam-- the art of taqiyya

sean

"How exactly was the war misreported?"

Er... by using Hamas as the primary source, reporting the bombing of the UN school but not reporting that it didn't actually happen, using the Scandinavian doctors as impartial reporters, saying 1300 people - mainly civilians - died... the list is endless really

LP Gasse

There is no such thing as a Multi-cultural society or area - its simply the transformational state from one culture to another.

Steve Edwards

Appeasing the extremists to sideline the terrorists is the same kind of failed approach to this problem as giving condoms to schoolchildren to avoid teenage pregnancies.

You legitimise the very activity which leads to the problem you are trying to address.

There is no room for separatism and sedition in Britain. If you don't like the way things are, write to your MP. If you don't like what they say, stand for parliament yourself. We all have to do it, regardless of our religion or political leanings.

wolf

KIWI:Honestreporting is a Zionist propaganda website!

Shaun Harbord

"Christians......believe in the separation of religion and state,"? Do they? In whih case they will be joining those of us who argue for the disestablishment of the Church of England, leaving religious choices to be a matter of prrivate conscience, with the law protecting that right of conscience. I seem to recall Melanie bitterly denouncing such a move not so long ago as underming our civilisation (or some such hysterical nonsense). Obviously she's changed her mind. Welcome!!

wolf

For all MP fans I recommend reading
Robert Fisk: Why do they hate the West so much, we will ask.
Independent 07/01/2009

James Hodson

I cannot recall whether or not it was Melanie who recommended "The Abolition of Reason" to her readers.

Nonetheless, I bought the pamphlet from Amazon. That site's "you have bought X so why not try Y and Z" facility led me after some time and several other purchases to Ed Hussain's "The Islamist", a trip through the author's life from extremely mild Islam, via extreme Islamism (it seemed to me more like student politics with a religious bent) and back to what he considered to be a peaceful form of his belief.

I'm in a fence-sitting mood today so all I'll suggest is that whatever one's views on this highly important topic, you really ought to read both "The Islamist" (and perhaps "The Abolition of Reason").

Margaret Muller-Johansson

Shaun Harbord,
"Christians....believe in the separation of religion and state"? yes they do, Melanie is right, look for example France, they stop school children to wear head veils, and the French believe you keep your religion at home, but I don't know what the left wing liberals who run for Britain think, i don't know if they believe Christianity do they?

Martyn Richard Jones

This article is simply obnoxious.

Iftikhar Ahmad

Salaam

The western "values" suggest equality and freedom for all, that means society must allow religious freedom. The Christians and Jews have Church/ Jewish schools as well as kosher meat, yet when Muslims simply ask for the very same treatment,the Islamphobic secular right wing jump up and down screaming that somehow western values have been attacked.

The Jews throught out the western world have their own religious courts. Christians have been enjoying the right to be married in Church. Muslims should have the same right to get married in Masajid as well as they need Sharia Courts, dealing in marriage, civil matters and divorce.

It is easy to say" Go back to where you came from",but do not forget that British Muslims are actually born and educated here. They are in the unenviable position of trying to combine two diffent worlds. That is no easy.

Multiculturalism is not about separation, ghettoisation or balkanisation. It is, instead, a recognition of both diversity and the need for common ground, mutual respect,and cultural engagement.

Muslims all over the world never opposed English as a language what they did was opposition of the Western culture and their system of education. In Pakistan, the medium of instruction is Urdu and English and the official language is both English and Urdu. Pakistan is going to send English teachers to Korea for the teaching of English language.

Muslim parents would like their children to be well versed in standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity.

Majority of Muslim children leave schools with low grades because state schools with monolingual teachers are not capable of teaching English to bilingual children.At the same time, they need to learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.

I am concerned with the education of the Muslim children. It is nothing to do with integration or segregation. Those state as well as Church schools where Muslim children are in majority, in my opinion, may be designated as Muslim community schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models.

Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.
Iftikhar Ahmad
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

David

How is:

"Those state as well as Church schools where Muslim children are in majority, in my opinion, may be designated as Muslim community schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models."

compatible with:

"There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school."

??

For anyone keen on the Tory party's policy on education - this is where it is headed...

Let's have secular, state schools with a national curriculum - the children can be given one afternoon off a week for whatever religious instruction their parents see fit to give. That will encourage diversity while preventing balkanisation.

Adam B.

wolf, Honestreporting illuminates the double standards and bias of many media outlets - it is your beloved Fisk who is a propagandist! (remember his lies about uranium munitions?)

Banksy

There is nothing extreme about supporting armed Palestinian resistance - they are a besieged and brutally occupied people and have a right and duty to resits their occupiers. Also, Afghan and Iraqi people have a right to resist aggressive foreign occupation - so I wouldn't condemn them for fighting back: wouldn't we do the same?

Sean

Banksy.The so called resistance is primarily by groups which are openly fascist and racist(check out the Hamas charter),focus on what they say rather than their colour.Supporting them is in effect like championing the werewolves who "resisted" the Allies following the fall of Nazi Germany.

Banksy

Sean - facist and racist? I think that's Israel your talking about - they're the ones stealing land and ethnically cleansing Palestinians. Ever looked at a map of Palestine before 1948?

Kim-yu Ha

I am a foriegner, we did not know English when we came here, we did not ask the British government to give us special classes and teachers from our country, it took me three months to learn the language i did well in school and get good grades, now I have a good job, why the muslim children can't do the same?

Original Tony

Robert, have you been living under a rock? You say the war could not have been mis-eported because the BBC was reporting on it from Southern Israel!
Geesh! Haven't you read all the criticism of the BBC for its bias against Israel?
THAT's why it was mis-reported!!

Adam B.

Banksy, oh dear. You have obviously never read the Hamas charter, which calls for the extermination of every living Jew. (from your reply, you don't seem bothered). And as for maps before 1948, you are exposing your ignorance for all to see. Palestine was NOT a country, never has been, at any time, ever. It was a Mandate before 1948, ruled by Britain, where Jews and Arabs lived. Then in 1922, two thirds of palestine was broken off by the british to become an exclusively Arab country, called Transjordan, which later became Jordan. Of the remaining third, the UN proposed establishing one jewish and one Arab state, which the Jews accepted and the Arabs rejected. the Arabs rejecyted the notion of any Jewish state, of any size.

The ONLY time the area has been an independent entity was as a Jewish state. But don't let facts deter you in your pathetic hatefest.

Are you aware of the racist apartheid conditions suffered by Jews and other minorities in most Islamic lands? Do you care?

Grow up and read some history.

R Cole

The joke is the bible is actually 'banned' in Saudi Arabia - but we not long ago saw the Saudi King meet the Queen - in all pomp and ceremony - while democratically elected Wilders who dared - suggest banning the Koran for the very same reasons the government/security forces have put together these new rules - (as parts of the Koran can be used to justify violence and hatred of non-Muslims -- or is the government still imagining these hard-liners pluck their ideas out of thin air !!)

- Wilders unlike the Saudi King - who promises and do destroy any Bible or non-Muslim holy book or items - on entry into Saudi Arabia - even via plane - is not given the royal or any welcome - but cast out - as it was said he would disrupt community harmony and social cohesion - and lastly - present a threat to public security.

Wow !!

(And apparently they did not see the film)

If we did not let Wilders in - then we should not allow the Saudi King in - (which legal system is more bigoted - than the Saudi legal system?)

- When all Wilders is calling for is tolerance of Dutch values - from the growing Muslim population there!

It seems - if this report is true - the British government has reluctantly agreed !!

Linda Smith

Banksy you posted: "There is nothing extreme about supporting armed Palestinian resistance - they are a besieged and brutally occupied people....." "fascist and racist? I think that's Israel your talking about - they're the ones stealing land and ethnically cleansing Palestinians. Every looked at a map of Palestine before 1948?"

Banksy, every looked at a map of Scotland? Ever heard of the Clearances of the Scottish Highlands by the English gentry in the 19th century? Do you think the Scots have a right to take up armed resistance against their English occupiers?

Straydingo

Banksy,

You need to go back to school and re take history - seriously, are you a clone - do you have the ability for independent thought - cant you see that your post is nothing more than a regurgitation of what you have read in the Guardian or watched on BBC

peter

I wonder what it takes for the authorities to brand ultra right wing Jews as extremists?

Just a thought.

patricia

Straydingo - What exactly is wrong with 'regurgitating' the Guardian or the BBC?

Maybe when you graduate from kindergarten and start reading real books instead of comics, you'll realise that truth comes in many shades.

Adam B.

patricia, the problem with the Guardian and the BBC is that they are both biased, hypocritical and hateful towards the Jewish state - much like you really. The fact you like them says it all.

Adam B.

peter, how many Jews have blown up buses and tubes in London?

What a silly comment.

Rodders

Patricia: Actually, the truth usually stands out for what it is, and is unmistakeable to anyone who trusts and knows when to rely on their intuition.

Which is why your brand of 'thinking' is counter-intuitive, and triggers cognitive dissonance in those of us who know the truth when we see it.

Anth

It’s suicidal to allow Islamists to propagate their agenda in the UK while at the same time they threaten with death any Muslim who converts to Christianity. We simply dare not extend freedom to people who subvert the very foundations of that freedom, nor dare we tolerate an ideology that glorifies mass murderers as “martyrs”. As Weimar shows, it’s just not healthy to let your spare room to arsonists.

There is another, quite opposite, potential to Muslim culture, as evinced by the exemplary tolerance shown to the Jews under the Ottoman Empire, and by the high moral code that true Muslims seek to obey. We must beware of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but we must first defend both the baby and ourselves.