Liberal fascism

Carl

Melanie, how dare you. Britain had no responsibility for the Holocaust and it is outrageous of you to make such a claim.

Mike

Christ, this is a ridiculous piece. It's institutions like this rag that are the first to call "Political Correctness gone mad" over trivial things- but now you say it's politically incorrect- worse, "anti-Semitic"- to criticise a mass murdering state because it happens to be Israel.

Israeli soldiers have killed thousands of innocents in Gaza.

Do you consider that last sentence anti-semitic? Because that is what it boils down to. You're a complete hack.

stanley Jerusalem

Terrifying!
Pick up your violins boys and girls. We're off again!
They still don't get it and if we hang around, we will.

Nehama

Que Carl and his boiler-plate claim that "criticism of israel means that the critic must be either anti-Semitic or a Self hating Jew taken ABC Guide for Zionist Apologists."

Take it away Carl...

Wilhelm

The Facist Left have been squeeeling and shouting down anybody who disagrees with the nutty multicultural religion for 40 years by shrieeking '' racist.'' It has worked, it has closed down the debate on immigration.

Wilhelm

Drunk driver Lord Achmed did the same with Geert Wilders by squeeeeling '' racism. '' bit like the Church screeamed heretic at dissenters in the 14th century.

Ros

This week's Time Out interview with the comedian Jeremy Hardy, who 'remains as political and passionate as ever.' "Why haven't we burnt down the Israeli embassy to stop what they're doing in Gaza? We could do that, there's enough of us.'

A book review in the same publication. 'Can I Bring My Own Gun? An Israeli Soldier's Story.' The reviewer takes it as obvious that, "After watching the recent Israeli bombardment of Gaza you are not, perhaps, in the mood to read a report by an ex-member of the IDF."

The Ham&High. The headline, 'Muslim grievances must be listened to.' Why particularly now? A letter from Camden Abu Dis Friendship Association. "Even though Israel kept the media away from Gaza, many of us cannot get the images of charred bodies, starving children or white phosphorous burns out of our minds."

Another letter to the same paper, disseminating the same lies: "The Lib Dems, alone among major political parties in Britain, condemned the attacks, which killed 1,300 Gazans, many of whom - if not all - were civilians, including hundreds of children."

A film review in the same paper: "Hell on earth in Gaza" The reviewer, '...the stage is over-run with mountains of shoes which double as rubble and as a memorial to the slaughtered - a symbol now regularly associated with the Holocaust.'

One week in London, repeated countless times, in countless newspapers, magazines and film/tv. The internet is buzzing, the comments' columns alive with the vitriol.

Universities are being blackmailed by small but vocal groups of students who are aggressive and threatening.

There is now a common ground for the anti-Semites. It's the acceptable face of anti-Semitism because it hides behind the guise of the perpetrator as being 'anti-Zionism' and 'anti-Israeli aggression.'

So we have a drip, drip, drip feed. The more the headlines are negative towards Israel and Jewry, the more it is acceptable that this should be received view.

This is how it started in Germany. Of course Jews will not be forced into cattle cars and won't end up in gas chambers but it does not mean that life will not be made intolerable to be Jewish in, especially, the UK. So now, for the reasons that the State of Israel was created, it is of paramount importance that Israel remain the ultimate refuge for the Jew.

Jason from AZ

I've said it before here and I'll say it again. Jews have no futute in England, or all of Europe for that matter. Emigrate to the US, which is isn't perfect but is 100% more tolerant and less anti-semitic than Britain.

Or emigrate to Israel if you are willing to built a fallout shelter and live in the shadow of Iranian nukes and terrorists all around you.

Muslims have 10 times the birth rate of other Brits. Sounds like the rest of the Brits will be very happy with their Muslim overlords and Sharia law in coming years. Yeah, right.

If I were a British Jew, my theme song would be that of that great '60's English rock band from Liverpool, the Animals: "LET ME GET OUT OF THIS PLACE."

Andre

Years ago I remember sitting in a coffee shop in Golders Green in the midst of pretty bad depression - this was some years aftter a long stint in Israel as a kibbutz volunteer. I was unhappy in a ridiculous advertising job and had spent a long afternoon in the pub. An elderly lady sat down opposite me and after a bit we conversed - she spoke very poor english even after 40 years in England and in the end we carried on in German - which I speak atrociously. I sat there hicupping 'bestimt' now and again and listening to her everyday problems - about the dust bin men, her neighbour's cat, her children. She was so wonderfully gorgeuously jewish, a direct link back to the happiest time of my life. I am not a jew, a catholic. I felt curiously heartened by the afternoon and my coffe and apfel strudel. I do not know if this is appropriate but I beleive then as I beleive now that I heard the voice of my saviour in her whispered encouragement. I owe so much to the jews and my love for Israel remains undimmed with the passing of the years.
Le haim, toda raba

Charles

"..Britain was responsible for the murder of thousands of Jews.." - That's what you get for trying to honour a commitment. In hindsight, Britain probably should have walked away from the whole Zionist project in the 1920s, when it was quite obvious where it was headed. More fool us, I suppose.

Larry

yes but none of this is really conscious or deliberate on the part of the leftwing fascists, it is unconscious, an inevitable consequence of their own warped anti-Semitism. It is not the product of a deliberate preplanned agenda, it is simply anti-Semitism in action.

In fact more to the point it is simply transference. Those accusing Israel of being a Nazi state are simply projecting their own pathological Jew-hatred ie their own Nazism onto the Jew nation. This is simply obvious, so obvious that very few people see it.

Judith

For 1900 years when the Jews were in exile & never were stained w/ the blood of others, the Gentiles never needed an excuse to persecute & scapegoat the Jews. Now that the Jews have their own state, again, the liberal fascists attempt to justify their hateful anti-semitism. For Israel it's always been a double standard. Every state commands power & hence a modicm of political violence to maintain that power & its border...Israel is no different. Israel's only chance for survival is to embrace it's unique covenental relationship w/ G-d & it's unique heritage. Like a lonely prophet, Israel must cultivate it's inner worth & dignity as a peculiar, treasured nation, take the initiative to act in it's own best interest & defend itself against the existential dangers that surronds it... &, finally, just give the finger to those who say they will love the Jews when they are victims, but hate them when they defend themselves in all their glorious pride for their culture, land & upstanding morality.

Vision Aforethought

On a related note to many of the recent postings by M, I thought it worth sharing a few of my experiences that until this very day I have never bought up before. Ever.

a) In about 2004, a sports friend of mine mentioned someone he knew had just had a Bar Mitzvah. I replied, "Oh, I had one too a long time ago!" His reply was (in a tone that was if I had slept with his sister), "I really didn't want to know that." (I am not sure if at the time he was aware of my origins and to this day, never asked why he reacted that way. I was shocked and confused at the time, not being aware of the sentiments we're all aware of today.)

b) Later, during some sports, and without ANY provocation at all, one of my other colleagues came up to me and said "Are you Jewish, as you kind of look like it." I replied, "Why do you ask?" His reply was, "Well, you Jews always get what you want." (It should be noted that I am well known in that sports community for being non confrontational and get on with everyone.) To this date, I have no idea why he made his comment. I never took it any further.

c) Much more recently, two of my 'friends' (who know my origins) bought up Gaza, (I never ever discuss Israel or the Middle East with anyone I know. I'm a middle class Brit getting on with life and sharing my life with people of all origins and faiths.) I on that occasion did get slightly defensive making the point that you have to travel to the region to really comprehend what is going on as we do not quite get a fair view from this cold windy isle. His response was "You have a chip on your shoulder about being Jewish." To which I replied, "What do you mean?" (To this date, I have no idea what he meant - and I still do not.)

It should be noted that both these friends who I have known for over 20 years are very liberal and like most of that ilk come out with some material about Israel (and Jews) that I am both surprised and stunned to hear. I never knew of much of it and have no idea where they get it from, but the fact they make the comments (which bare no relation to any Jews I know anywhere), is very worrying and echoes so much of what is discussed on this blog. To this date, I have not yet suffered any real abuse (mental or physical) for my origins, but can appreciate now just how the masses can be so easily manipulated into believing lies or distortions of truth - with appalling consequences.

What really gets me is that people who are of similar or identical origin to those responsible for genuine atrocities around the globe do not get any abuse! Jews who do so much good worldwide and get it all. Related, I'll end on a note of optimism...

When I asked a non Jewish colleague of mine (where mutual respect exists between us) why Jews are the target of so much abuse, he replied "Envy, people are jealous. That's all."

(And being pure bred British by their nature seem to love losers and worship trash, I can see why this country attracts so many anti-semites. Except for the odd dodgy investment banker, we're just too good. I hear all my anti-Israel/Jew hate from white Brits, never heard a peep from any Middle Easterners. Not yet anyway.)

Tag de jour: Karma

Terry

I have myself been using the term 'leftofascism' for some time now, especially in respect of the liberal aganda on Israel and, surprise, surprise, the Jews. For me, the fig leaf of the left which hid antisemitism behind a veneer of 'anti Zionism' slipped many years ago.

I'm afraid, Melanie, that leftofascism is the new Zeitgeist of the west. History moves on in ever decreasing circles, and we end up at some place in the past. At hte moment we have ended up in europe in the late 1930s.

Jeremy

Would it not be useful, therefore, for the ADL ,Israeli govt. and many other organisations that purport to speak for Jews, to stop calling unpleasant Arab leaders "the new Hitler" and predicting (ludicrously) a Holocaust from Iran (or Iraq or...). Doesn't that trivialise the Holocaust?? It seems that this liberal fascism is more widespread than we like to think. And we ain't going to contain it by resorting to it.

Louise

A searingly accurate analysis, Melanie. The jackals of the liberal media - the Guardian, the Independent, the BBC and their running dogs - have sniffed Israel's blood and, sensing its death throes, are baying for more. The Worcester City Council's decision to twin Worcester with Gaza is a reprehensible intrusion into the political arena, divisive and likely to humiliate Jewish citizens and help to demonise them, intimidating them into silence and even collusion. I suspect that Worcester's example will be followed elsewhere. By misrepresenting the situation in Gaza, and by distorting the history of Eretz Israel and of Zionism, the "liberal" lefties (who are in fact totalitarians) are undermining Jewry and the Jewish State. I have long felt that a philosemitism that is based on sympathy for Jews as martyrs and victims is in fact no philosemitism at all. Oh for the genuine philosemites, who stand with Jewry and Israel through thick and thin, who love us for what we have given to the world, and for what we have contributed to western civilisation. I fear that, with ignorance of the Bible (except in fundamentalist circles) and of history, such people are a dying breed. We require a hasbara that revives such things, and presents them in an accessible way. Unfortunately, an out-married rabbi with no congregation, and no tangible involvement with Jewish communal affairs, but with a prestigious academic position and therefore plenty of influence on impressionable minds, has also made the shameful analogy between Israel's counter-terror operations in Gaza and the Nazis' destruction of the Warsaw Ghetto. An absurd and unsupportable analogy, of course, but one to which his foolish outburst in a newspaper has lent "respectability", along with his decision to march on the Israeli Embassy, wearing a "Free Palestine" badge. And, as anybody who has ever "debated" the Israel-Palestine issue on general internet forums finds, sooner or later, intimidation and abuse greets people making the case for Israel. Have a look at Facebook or YouTube, and see the sheer hatred from groups and individuals aimed at Israel's spokesmen and politicians. Tsipi Livni is depicted as a pig, and the most obscene antisemitic hatred is tolerated about her. Mark Regev is subject to similar virulence, with "war criminal" one of the more polite accusations made against him merely for stating Israel's case, and there is an explicit pornographic image aimed at his supporters, which so far the internet site concerned has not (despite requests) removed.

HarleyDavidson

Just suppose I were to ask what's the problem with Jews outside of being Nazi like of course? The answers range from, Jews control the banks, Jews control the economy, Jews are responsible for the economic collapse, Jews control America, Jews control the west, Jews forced America to war in Iraq, Jews blew up the towers in 9/11, Jews are responsible for all the ills of the Muslim world, Jews made Germany declare war, Gaddafi got into the act and blames Israel for Darfur genocide, Jews starve Palestinians, Jews are responsible for ALL wars, Jews control Hollywood, Jews control every western nation, Jews are filthy, Jews are dirty, and on and on and on.

Wow! That's quite a growing list one can write off the top of one's head, don't you think? Some even the ever imaginative Goebbels failed to manufacture. Then again poor Goebbels only had a few years on the job but not bad for a 5' 4" 100 pounds weakling with a big head and a club foot. Not bad for a fellow who studied philosophy, history, art and literature at the Universities of Bonn, Freiburg, Würzburg, Cologne, Frankfurt, Munich and Berlin before finally receiving his Ph.D. in Drama from Heidelberg. He was to be one of the only Nazi leaders to have received a college education unlike so many of his understudies carrying on Goebbels unfinished work 60 plus years later.

It really is hard to distinguish between Goebbels' propaganda and today's Jew haters. Its the modern twists on Jews where one can tell where today's new Nazis have added on to Goebbels unfinished work.

And once again we've heard the cries coming out of Europe and Britain and Muslim nation and Muslims in America, "Jews to the gas chambers. Jews to the ovens!"

That's from the leftists with not a single word of disgust, who would have imagined this in our lifetimes?

But NOT THIS TIME, folks. NEVER AGAIN means just that. NEVER AGAIN! There is a Jewish nation called Israel with 400 plus nukes and a modern military more than capable of defending itself.

Perhaps one could even ask the leftists why do you all suppose many ardent Nazis, many directly responsible for the death camps, escaped to Arabic nations after the war and were welcomed? Why do you suppose Nazis felt so at home there? Maybe for the same reason why leftists feel so at home supporting Muslims terrorists today.

Mark

'The human rights movement is intrinsically a vehicle for Jew-hatred'. Daily Mail columnist loses any last touch with reality.

Alex Ross

Can anyone possibly translate this incomprehensible sentence for me...

"Berman then flinches from the contemporary political application, refusing to agree that the human rights movement is intrinsically a vehicle for Jew-hatred."

What is meant by "intrinsically" here? Can there be no human rights movement without "Jew-hatred"? Are all human-rights demands "intrinsically" a vehicle for with "Jew-Hatred"?

Penny

Dear Andre

What a lovely post. 'Toda raba' to you, too. Mikerev lev!

journeyman

In answer to Alex Ross:
"are all human-rights demands "intrinsically"a vehicle for with Jew-Hatred"?
There is a mind-set phenomena,which was first remarked upon by Orwell before WW2,which he scathingly attacked in one of his critical essays.He accused the young British-left,"intelligencia,of habitually placing Nazism and Communism on the same moral plane as Democracy.
He also accused them of being Third-Worldists.In the "any Facist with a brown skin can do no wrong"ever more evident in the anti-western/white/post-colonial/knee-jerk/lock-step/civilizational guilt,of todays,(new word-for-new-times)Liberal-Facism.
Once again as a 16 year old,1968,left-liberal,college hippy,I observed the same left fascination for the Utopian"narrative"of U.S.S.R,Mao,Castro,being the perfect,sucker for every well funded victimhood,"narrative",that infiltrated their campus.
The anti-Israel Left,have not quiet realized that they have been specifically targeted.
With the Left,it has been and always wiil be,a"PACKAGE DEAL".
The latest one is,as always(all or nothing).Each aspect of this package being inseperable from the other.As in Anti Bush/Neo-Con/Israel/West/Islamophobe/Capitalist/Global Warming Denier/Ect ect,and those who even wish to debate the issue are treated to the same old dissent crushing "racist ",label,or whatever convieniant (2 mantra and five cliches argument comes to mind.No matter what,Islam will never be saisfied.It is Non-Muslim-Ophobic.It is at war with co-existence and when it is finished with Israel,It will dispence with its "trojan horse"and usefull idiot---the Left.

Joe Strummer

Being of Ulster Protestant descent and an Ulster Unionist, and therefore like the Jews not a favourite of the liberal Left media, I am also well familiar with their antics having observed for years throughout the horror of The Troubles in Northern Ireland the crass, simplistic demonisation and marginalisation of my community by the likes of the BBC and the leftist media for their own political purposes.

The tiny British Jewish community should become more vocal, more strident,and more militant to fight what is a shameful campaign against them and Israel.

The Islamic Caliphate of Tunbridge Wells

A 12 year old boy working for the Taliban in Afghanistan beheaded a 40 year old man believed to be a spy, the muslim Jihadists stuck it on Youtube. What say you Jeremy Hardy ?

What Would Wingate Do

Melanie Phillips has once again made a very elegant and persuasive case, so I won’t attempt to add much. I will ask everyone the following: how do we who share Melanie’s views fight back? As Gordon Parks (one of the American civil rights pioneers) put it, what will be our “choice of weapons.”

Let me clarify that I am not necessarily proposing violence (neither am I proposing mindless pacifism), but rather a war of words and quite possibly economic boycotts. We need to be actively thinking about this. Wringing our hands over anti-Semitism is going to raise awareness (definitely needed at this point), but at some point, we are going to have to put into motion the means for fighting back.

Again, let me reiterate: we need to be actively thinking about how to fight back; it is a certainty that our enemy is actively thinking about how to kill us and destroy our civilization.

IXLR8

The Left hates God and all that He stands for. The Jews are God's Chosen People. Jew-Hatred is God-Hatred on an earthly level.

Kim

"I would also make a further point that Rich does not make. Calling Israel a Nazi state retrospectively sanitises the Holocaust and lets complicit Europe off the hook – Britain too."
This is central to so many political ideologies on the left...choosing their "moral" political positions to give comfort to them in their actual immoral choices.

Patz

To the shame of my ancestors who fought to free Europe in WW2, Canada is now anti semetic, if you go by 2 of its universities, Concordia and Ryerson and by the trade union CUPE. They are not alone. It is digusting to me. How modern people turn their back on democracy to support medieval thinking is mad. But that is how it is in Canada today. Will we wake up? Not until another 9/11.

Fergus Pickering

Let me put my cards on te able. I have no interest whatever in promoting yet another Muslim state which hangs homosexuals and reckons women are second-class. I KNOW my enemy and it is Muslim. So why should I quarrel with Jews? I think it impolitic of you, Melanie, to go on about British complicity with the holocaust. Doubtless EVERYBODY was complicit with the Hlocaust including the Jews themselves. Theer is nothing to be gained by going down that route. Liberals, you ought to know by now, are very dodgy people and rarely to be trusted. They're always shifting about with every wind that blows, the man Blair, you know the guy who's going to sort out the Middle East, being a prime example of the breed. Liberals tend to be people like teachers and social workers who take it as an article of faith that they are underpaid and not appreciated. To them Jews = rich bankers and businessmen and lawyers. They are therefore to be reviled because they earn so much more than teachers and social workers.

Yehuda

Mike, yes; your stance is antisemitic: it is based on lies, distortions, half-truths, rumour, gossip ,prejudice, discrimination, wilful blindness, selective pseudo-morality etc.
Mike, are you a Jew-hater? No, of course not; you're only a "critic" of Israel. Join the insane herd.

David

"and around over drinks with people they once thought were friends but who now force them to make a choice: renounce Israel and be accepted, or support Israel and be a pariah."

Wow, you've clearly got a bizarre group of friends.

Neil Turner

Carl 6.22pm

You clearly don't know your history.

After the war, Britain did everything it could to stop Jews getting into Palestine

Using the Royal Navy to ram ships full of immigrants, Lancaster bombers to "buzz" them, and the British Army to ensure that the Arab Legion were suitably equipped and trained.

Once "captured", the Jews were returned internment camps inside the Germany that had just exterminated 6 million of their relatives

All this done to those who had survived the camps.

Britain has a long history of anti-semitism, and bowing the knee to Islamists

During the war the likes of the Grand Mufti were lauded and welcomed by Hitler. They shared a commin aim, which we see replicated today by those who, ironically, call the Jews "Nazi's"

You should be ashamed

Ronnie

...she brought her chariot to a halt about 200 yards further along the deserted street. Raising her spear, she pointed at a small man cowering in the entrance to a shop who's windows were boarded up. He was holding a book tightly in both hands. 'There's another one!', she said with a slightly raised but even voice.

Several of her followers rushed over to the man, opened his jacked and dragged him roughly to the wheel of the queen's chariot. His eyes bulged and if he had wanted to scream he found that he couldn't.

She smiled down at the man. 'You were a useful idiot,' she said. Then she plunging the tip of her spear into his heart. The book dropped onto the tarmac and the man's body fell on top of it.

'Onward!' the queen cried, and her group reformed behind her chariot.

'Why are there still so few of us? Can't they see...?'

'No, your Majesty', answered a man in tweed at the head of her followers, 'but we do and we will always be with you.'

'I know,' she said.

EC

"It is very noticeable that hatred of Israel and the Jews today goes hand in hand with higher social class and education...."

It's a double whammy then.
Don't forget that the BNP is hard at work in the sink estates of our towns and cities. They are ministering to the descendants of the British working class who have been confined and abandoned on these socialist gulags.

Who would have thought that Old Labour could ever be electable let alone trendy or fashionable - and then BINGO - New Labour.

In the UK Bureaucratic Fascism is already a fact. History could repeat itself. The next Big Lie to be sold could see a new season of March Violets spring forward to claim their birthright, pension or whatever.

Original Tony

Carl..."Britain had nothing to do with the holocaust"

Really my friend? So the British policy of restricting Jewish emigration to Israel to 75 000 a year in the late 1930's had nothing to do with imprisoning them in Europe so that by default they ended up in the gas chambers?

You don't have to pull the trigger to be guilty of murder.

Miranda Rose Smith

The people Israeli soldiers killed in Gaza were mostly terrorists, Mike. The "thousands" figure is apparently grossly inflated. Thousands of Israeli CIVILIANS have been murdered in terrorist attacks. How many innocents have American and British soldiers killed? Does the name "Dresden" ring a bell? You can't fight a war, particularly in a populated area, particularly against people who use civilians as human shields, without killing civilians. There's a reason why General Sherman said "War is hell."

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Carl: Did you ever hear of the White Paper? The "Struma?" The "Patria?"

Yehuda

An apt metaphor for the "critics" of Israel today is the following true story: in the 1930's in a country where the populace's hatred of the Jews was proportional to its Christian piety, lived a man with a wife and children. Once a week this man would get blind drunk, and then he would mercilessly abuse his family, sometimes at knifepoint. The wife and children would regularly seek and find shelter in the home of Jewish neighbours.
The husband, however, did show himself to be a humane being, deeply concerned for the welfare of other living beings when he would habitually rave, rant, curse and assault Jews because of their "cruel" slaughter of chickens, which were a traditional Sabbath dish.

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Mr. Turner: "A commin aim?" You are a very (sic) man.

Charles

Original Tony - Firstly, it wasn't 75,000 per year. Secondly, it wasn't Israel. And, thirdly, all that saved the Jews of Palestine from the same fate as those in Europe was the British Eighth Army, and don't you forget it.

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Charles: Good, and often overlooked, point. The British Eighth Army DID stop Rommel.

Rachel Miller

Jeremy -

Just one point. The reason ADL and other groups refer to the possibility of a second Holocaust caused by 'unpleasant Arab leaders' is that many of these 'unpleasant Arab leaders' have openly stated their intention to carry out a second Holocaust.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad himself, remember, referred to Israel as a 'filthy bacterium' and called for it to be wiped from the face of the earth. He is not alone. I strongly advise you to visit this site:
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1999.htm

Register and watch the clip of the Egyptian cleric. It is highly disturbing.

Henry Sidgwick

Yehuda,
We have had this converation before. If you accuse every critic of anti-Semitism you preclude all rational debate. What then is your purpose?

Michael B

There is much to profit from in Jonah Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism," but I don't believe Paul Berman's piece can be so readily lifted to the realm of "truth" - or the latest version of secularist holy writ du jour - simply because his template serves an otherwise more conscientious and nobler interest. There is ample material to consider in what Berman writes, but there is ample to digest and subject to other considerations, other critiques, other reviews, as well. It's no mere coincidence that he "flinches" in other areas. To the contrary, he's engaging in a too-neat, too reductionist and simplifying review throughout.

phil

Charles did they do it to save the Jews ? No doubt whatsoever that the Jews were grateful but do not do your usual twisting of facts -you manage to appear here every so often to say something unpleasant ,you are becoming a legend in your own lunchbox

Oliwagino Alefava Yihiri

There is a lot of anti Semitic in Britain and i think some of it is created by the Jewish who are not proud to be Jewish,
remember if you love yourself others will love you back, now innocent good Jewish have to pay the price for that, I know a lot of Jewish people who say we don't like Israel and Judaism, so what do you think other people would do? like God hating liberal fascists, they will take advantage of that

Israel

Melanie, I really must stop reading your nonsence. NB: As a Jew I am NOT an Israely and am insulted to be assumed to even have anything in common. and yes I have visited etc..

Mark

Mel's posts, and this site, are becoming increasingly strange. Daily she points her finger at some new body or individual which has criticised an aspect of Israeli government policy (now its doctors, or human rights organisations), screaming Jew hater, blood-libel etc. These are vile accusations and language, which surely should be used sparingly if at all?

On these posts Mel's most ardent fans descend like a pack of screeching gulls, competing to outdo one-another in invective and bile.

Even posters who are generally supportive of Israel are peeling away (Conservative Cabbie's pained post about the over-use of accusations of anti-semitism might be taken as a good indicator), so that the blog has become a kind of furious, endlessly futile monologue.

There another issue I'd like to raise. In addition to all the angry Mel-extremists there are also a few posters here who are clearly disturbed, and possibly in need of help. Rather than recognising this pretty obvious fact, and moving over the comments of these posters with tact and discretion, the Mel-fans descend again, almost with glee. There is an unpleasant feel of playground bullying about all this - unless Mel fans see the more disturbed posters as mirror images of themselves?

Yisrael Medad, Shiloh, Israel

For those upset about Britain being accused of complicity in the Holocaust by preventing Jews from reaching the Palestine Mandate, Melanie is not referring to the post-1945 period but that which started at the Evian Conference (try this: http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/antiholo/evian/conclusion.html and this: http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_evian.php) and, of course, Bernard Wallerstein's amazing research in "Britain and the Jews of Europe, 1939-1945" (http://www.amazon.com/Britain-Europe-1939-1945-Bernard-Wasserstein/dp/0718501829)

Charles

Phil - Not all were so grateful. The Lehi group started planning their assassinations around that time, culminating in the killing of Lord Moyne in Cairo.

Charles

Yisrael - Or Melanie could be talking about the period prior to the Arab Revolt when, one is informed, thousands of residence certificates were issued by the Jewish authorities to American Zionist immigrants, rather than those fleeing persecution in Germany and Poland.

Yisrael Medad, Shiloh, Israel

Charles, you're right about that 75,000 figure. It was for the five-year period 1939-1944. And not for naught did Begin declare the Irgun's revolt in February 1944 as that was the end of that period. You know that the British Mandatory authorities had about 15,000 immigration schedule certificates till left over in 1944 which they could have used to save Jews - but they didn't, did they?

And as for Lechi, they were assassinating British officials and police as a matter of policy in 1941. In fact, after a Jerusalem CID officer, Cairns, had been caught out torturing Irgun members in the summer of 1939, by stepping on them, beating them with rubber truncheons and pulling out their fingernails, he was blown up by a land-mine set off as he walked near his Rehavia home.

Yisrael Medad, Shiloh, Israel

Charles, one - you - is ill-informed. At no time were thousands of certificates issued to American Zionist immigrants no was there any time when thousands of American Jews came on aliyah before the Arab Revolt (which one, by the way? Lawrence's or 1936-39?)

Jewish Immigrants to Palestine

1919 1,806
1920 8,223
1921 8,294
1922 8,685
1923 8,175
1924 13,892
1925 34,386
1926 13,855
1927 3,034
1928 2,178
1929 5,249
1930 4,944
1931 4,075
1932 12,533
1933 37,337
1934 45,267
1935 66,472
1936 29,595
1937 10,629
1938 14,675
1939 31,195
1940 10,643
1941 4,592

By contrast, throughout the Mandatory period, Arab immigration was unrestricted.

The 1920s were Polish Jews mainly and the 1930s were German and Central European Jews, mainly.

Carl

The original comment and the posts here from some people demonstrate one thing: Pro Zionists will use every filthy smear that they can to prevent criticism of Israel.

Maurice. MD

Charles -- During the British Mandate in Palestine, the period to which you refer, it was only the British authorities that issued entry permits. And during the Holocaust they used that authority to PREVENT Jews from escaping Europe and reaching the Jewish National Home.

To quote then FM Anthony Eden:"Nothing should be done to faciliate escape of Jews because nobody wants them."

There were no Jewish authorities with power to issue residence permits and no "thousands of American Zionist immigrants."

Now readers here can understand how your views are based on ignorance and fantasy. your "thousands of American Zionists"

Ronnie

Mark, I hope you are not inferring that I am disturbed?

Charles

Yisrael - Doubt there are any reliable figures, but these are the ones that support my statement: Between 1933-35 there were, apparently, 3,743 immigrants from the United States (ref. 'Immigration to Israel' by Fawzi Abu-Diab - about whom, I know zilch). And 40%+ of Jewish immigration was from Poland during the same years (ref. American Jewish Yearbook, 1936-37 - which is also not sitting on my bookshelf).

Augustus

Carl, how old are you? Have you a mind of your own and able to see with your own eyes what is happening to Jewish people, and not just in Britain, but in many other european countries? Please have the nous to read both sides of every story instead of just accepting whatever is told you by the media and others with an axe to grind. It must be surprising to many of Melanie's posters that you comment on her blogs so frequently, and yet have nothing to add but contrarian jibes and hateful comments.

phil

alex ross "What is meant by "intrinsically" here? Can there be no human rights movement without "Jew-hatred"? Are all human-rights "demands "intrinsically" a vehicle for with "Jew-Hatred"?
---of course there can but do you know any?if so .please name them

Charles

Maurice. MD - "It was the British, not the Zionists, who determined the immigration policy for Palestine, using a combination of political considerations – for example, an evaluation of the reaction of the Arabs, and relatively objective computations related to the absorptive capacity of the Jewish economy. Each year a quota would be set and the precious immigration certificates were given to the WZO. There were always political criteria for would-be immigrants. Communists were always barred and 6 per cent of the certificates had to be given to the anti-Zionist Agudaists but, on the other hand, £1,000 capitalists were always allowed entry over the quota. Until the 1936 Arab revolt compelled the Mandatory to drastically lower immigration, the Jewish Agency never seriously challenged London over the proposed figures or the economic rationales behind them." 'Zionism in the Age of Dictators' by Lenni Brenner (http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/ch13.htm)

phil

Mark I cannot speak for Mel,but I can for myself ,I answer all the haters because otherwise they will have a free ride at insulting us all and most of us come here to debate , inform and learn ,have you ever written anything nice on these threads about either Jews or Israel?do you think we should smile and enjoy the comments of carl and george .do you think we will ever walk again to our deaths without fighting back ?Do not bank on it .You will see regularly the snide comments of the Windsor man charles conjuring with lies and inuendo and actually whinging when we put him in his place -you can tell us what we should do ,it will be interesting ,and just so you will know ,yes MEL is a little strong at times ,but she is usually right too, and we playground bullies would just like to be left to play in peace .

Brian

"The Left hates God and all that He stands for. The Jews are God's Chosen People. Jew-Hatred is God-Hatred on an earthly level."

--------------

Who couldn't love and respect a group of people who think like this?

Yisrael Medad, Shiloh, Israel

Fawzi is here: http://catalog.library.ksu.edu.sa/digital/237685.html buton the background of tens of thousands in the 1930s in reaction to the rise of Hitler - the Grand Mufti's buddy - if the number is correct it is not representative of what he intends, i.e., foreigners came into "Palestine", avoiding the foreign Arabs from Syria, North Africa and Lebanon, etc. drawn to a good economy.

Bye for the Sabbath coming on here

Linda Smith

Carl: re your comment today 1:01pm: "Pro Zionists will use every filthy smear that they can to prevent criticism of Israel."

Antisemites will use every filthy smear they can to criticise Israel.

Original Tony

Charles...yakkity -yak, so it was the British mandated territories that Jews could not come back to rather than Israel...dont split hairs...they could not come back to the land of their ancestors and in my book the Holy Land has ALWAYS been Israel no matter what the Brits called it in the 1920's.

Irael 12:00 pm...hang your head in shame you sell-out. Who will house you when the Mullahs are at your door?

Peter Thomas

Original Tony - it was 15,000 per YEAR, hence 75,000 allocated over 5 years of the war - and only 51,000 of those were actually allowed in. And then there was the sinking of the Struma - torpedoed off Turkey in 1942 after the British refused to allow its cargo of 750 desperate Romanian Jews to proceed to Israel. The High Commissioner even tried to block the entry of the TWO survivors! British policy on immigration was an absolute disgrace throughout, and definitely responsible for the Holocaust deaths of many who otherwise would have had a chance of reaching Israel. Meanwhile, massive illegal Arab immigration was ignored - and now, of course, there are descendants of these immigrants claiming that their family have been resident in the disputed area for centuries.

Michael B

Yehuda,

Your "apt metaphor" is a wee bit exciteable; similarly, your conception of "Christian piety." Given such exciteable opinings - reminiscent of Daniel Goldhagen's far reaching malice, presumption and manifest hatreds - there is little prospect for any profitable exchange whatsoever. Suffice to say that if there would have been more Dietrich Bonhoeffers and fewer Ludwig Mullers, Hitler's rise would not have occurred. More broadly stated, if the population in general had been more, rather than less, Christian, Hitler's rise would not have occurred, or would have been contained and marginalized to the fringe within that era. The problem with your stupefyingly facile "apt metaphor" is that it presumes to view an entire and vast range of sociological and anthropological material in general - all into a boorishly trite reduction, upon which you then announce, voila! The difference between your own reduction and someone like Goldhagen's is a matter of sophistication (which, ironically, is similar to the wouldbe "sophistication" Paul Berman's referenced piece attributes to Walt & Mearsheimer's corruption).

Carl

Linda Smith - they don't need to. Israel is condemned by it's own actions.

Laura

In order to defeat islamism we must defeat the left.

Laura

worse, "anti-Semitic"- to criticise a mass murdering state because it happens to be Israel.
..........................
Calling Israel a mass murdering state is indeed anti-Semitic since it such an outlandish false accusation. Yet of course the left has nothing to say about the truly mass murdering muslim states.

Quit pretending that such outrageous blood libels and vastly over the top allegations merely amounts to "criticism" of Israel. It goes far beyond that and you know it carl. YOu and others like yourself don't merely make dispassionate reasonable, sober criticisms of Israeli government policy. You speak with venom of the state itself.

Murray

I remember a gentlemanly professor of company law who giggled at the sight of my obviously Jewish name on the class map and list of students at their respective seats. All I knew was he was a yet another illustrious example of genteel anti-semitism. A true primitive .

Ellien

To Larry 26.02.09, 8.05 pm. I agree about projection, but transference is something else, a term which really only works in the consulting room. Much of what Jews and Israel are accused of is pure projection - a way for cowards to rid themselves of unwanted feelings and emotions. Melanie: One way in which Britain aided and abetted the Nazis in their extermination programme was by heavily restricting the visas it gave to Jewish applicants in the run-up to the 2nd WW. Some Children could come on the Kindertransport, some adults could obtain work permits for jobs such as housemaids, or if they had a UK sponsor. There was no such thing as the right to seek asylum - that came after the Holocaust, and as a result of it, with the Geneva Convention. My grandmother stood in queues in Vienna for two weeks, and paid handsomely, to obtain visas for her two daughters who came to the UK to work as cooks for private families. My grandmother, may she rest in peace for eternity, was murdered by a Ukranian employee of the Nazis, after being deported there in 1942. Had the British given her a visa she would have survived, and made a wonderful contribution to the life of the UK, just as my mother has done.

Ellien

To Larry 26.02.09, 8.05 pm. I agree about projection, but transference is something else, a term which really only works in the consulting room. Much of what Jews and Israel are accused of is pure projection - a way for cowards to rid themselves of unwanted feelings and emotions. Melanie: One way in which Britain aided and abetted the Nazis in their extermination programme was by heavily restricting the visas it gave to Jewish applicants in the run-up to the 2nd WW. Some Children could come on the Kindertransport, some adults could obtain work permits for jobs such as housemaids, or if they had a UK sponsor. There was no such thing as the right to seek asylum - that came after the Holocaust, and as a result of it, with the Geneva Convention. My grandmother stood in queues in Vienna for two weeks, and paid handsomely, to obtain visas for her two daughters who came to the UK to work as cooks for private families. My grandmother, may she rest in peace for eternity, was murdered by a Ukranian employee of the Nazis, after being deported there in 1942. Had the British given her a visa she would have survived, and made a wonderful contribution to the life of the UK, just as my mother has done.

davidrev

‘The idea that it is reserved for knuckle-dragging right-wingers is simply wrong” I say they are knuckle-dragging left-wingers. The Nazis were National Socialists and effective anti-Semitic policies require a collectivist government that refuses to stand up for the individual liberty of its citizens. The title of Jonah Goldberg’s book sais it all.

David B

This is a Straw Man argument.

Of course people are wrong to call Israel a Nazi state.

But I would be much more interested in reading Melanie's analysis of actual Israeli politics and policies and her vision of what Israel must do to find peace, a deal and coexistence.

Linda Smith

David B, you ask for Ms Phillips' "vision of what Israel must do to find peace, a deal and coexistence."

Of course Ms Phillips would answer for herself in her own way, but here is my own response:

Unfortunately, Israel's enemies do not recognise Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State. What deal could Jews do with Nazi Germany? None. Israel's politics and policies must necessarily look to defending the State and its citizens against its enemies' stated intention of Israel's destruction as a Jewish state and genocide of its Jewish population.

epaminondas

The anti semitic frenzy continues as the comments show.

If these stupid jews only knew their place, the world would be without this strife, eh?

Israel is involved in a religious war of the peoples.

The people of Gaza by the responsibility THEY undertook in their vote (2/3 of contested for HAMAS...while only 44% voted for Hitler) knew full well what they were voting for.

HAMAS' actions are an accurate representation of the will of the palestinian peoples .. that will is for no peace and a religious war, as the HAMAS CHARTER makes clear.

The problem is that the jews want to live, and live in their own state ..something made compulsory by the actions in this world throughout history.

Some people find this morally inconvienient

Margaret Muller-Johansson

The British people don't know what they like specially the younger generations, i think it must be the way they was brought up and their education system, they think they are the "best", the best people in the world but now they are finding out they are not the best so they are angry, they are jealous and they can't hide their jealousy, I hate when they say we don't like Polish people, we all know they don't like the Polish because they are hard working and they don't like the Jewish because mostly the Jewish are cultured and successful, I can't help the British lefties, they don't know the different between good and bad, what is the fuss about Britain? the weather is bad the food is not my cup of tea, and with out the Jewish they be eating kidney pie for breakfast

Yuck!

allan kessing

Just to clarify your position Ms Philips, could you explain what right the British & US had to assuage their guilt over failing to succour Jews in the 1930s by allwoing the take over & outright theft of the land of the Palestinians?
Don't try the "God gave it to us" line, that was rubbish during the Babyloniasn exile and is no more true now.

phil

allan kessing-well said sir ,you have brilliantly expressed the view of all those that know nothing about the ME. there was of course no Palestinian land it belonged to the Ottoman Empire as anyone who had the slightest knowledge of the Me would know ,and now you do -btw what I find amazing here is that so many of your ilk like to put their full names ,who are you trying to impress?

Linda Smith

Allan Kessing: you obviously do not read the many posts on these threads documenting accurate historical facts.

God didn't give Israel to the Jews, the UN did under the partition plan of Resolution 181, 29 November 1947.

There were no "Palestinians in 1947. That term was coined in the 1960s as an Arab propaganda tool.
If you wish to use that term to describe the inhabitants of the British Mandate of Palestine prior to 1947, then the term applies equally to the Jews as the Arabs. There have always been Jewish "Palestinians" as well as Arab "Palestinians".

Many of the Arabs living in the Mandate in 1947 were immigrants who had been allowed to settle as immigrants in the 1920s and 30s under the British. Jews were also allowed to settle as immigrants. The Jewish Agency legally purchased land; do you believe that the Arabs had greater right to the "land" than the legal owners?

I recommend that you read the many informative posts on this website "to clarify your position".

stanley Jerusalem

phil=
btw what I find amazing here is that so many of your ilk like to put their full names ,who are you trying to impress?

Allan Kessing
From Wikileaks
Jump to: navigation, search

Spurring $200 million of reforms to Australian airport security.

Senior Australian Customers officer Alan Robert Kessing was convicted in May 2007 of leaking his own classified report to The Australian newspaper in 2005.

The report, which had been written by Kessing in 2003, documented numerous insecurities at Sydney airport and gave recommendations on how they might be addressed. However the report was suppressed, even within government. In response to media coverage of the leak, the Australian Federal government instituted a AUD$200 million airport security reform program -- and launched a witch hunt to find the whistleblower. Kessing's telephone calling records were seized by police. His calls revealed conversations with journalists from the Australian newspaper around the time of its first story. A subsequent police raid on Kessing's home discovered the business card of the one of journalists.

Really?
Is it indeed you Allan?

Ann

"allwoing the take over & outright theft of the land of the Palestinians"

Utter drivel. There has never been such a thing as 'the land of the Palestinians'. Indeed, until this sham was invented in the 1960s, there WERE no 'Palestinians' (although until 1948, JEWS in Israel were referred to as 'Palestinian Jews', while the Arabs OBJECTED to being called 'Palestinians', claiming - quite correctly - that they are ARABS).
There has never been a specific 'Palestinian' nation, language, country, rulers etc etc.
On the other hand, the Jewish nation has existed in Israel for over 3000 years.
Now go and do some basic reading.

phil

stanley Jerusalem it might be short for kesselring :)

Suffolkbor

Margaret Muller - Johansson:
Please stop talking drivel about British food and weather .
Britains Jewish population have conributed greatly to our society beyond a shadow of a doubt but their contribution to our culinary evolution is zilch .
Now for a few facts:
1. Kidney pie was never eaten for breakfast .
2. No one chooses their own climate , it is decided by geography and latitude, thus the inhabitants of a land whose weather you dislike are totally blameless on that score .

Now I hope that I have redressed the balance a little so that you will not write silly things like this again .

Oliwagino Alefava Yihiri

Thank you Ann,

"please educate the uneducated"

stanley Jerusalem

Suffolkbor - So it's untrue! My grandfather didn't import fried fish and chips into the East End in the 1890's. Must have been Escoffier then.
And there was I languishing in the secure knowledge of my birthright and contribution to british kultur. A nechtige tug!

phil

Suffolkbor have you never eaten kishkes or kugel in motorway caff?

Linda Smith

Suffolkbor, what about bagels?

stanley Jerusalem

phil - in the immortal words of Mel Brooks,playing the part of an Indian chief in Blazing Saddles " Los'm gehen!"

Suffolkbor

Stanley Jerusalem:
Many years ago I read a book written by the late Gerald Priestland called ; Frying Tonight. The Saga Of Fish And Chips.
It is a very interesting social history of that particular simple but fulfilling Provender .
It is available through Amazon if you click on no 4 on the link to said author and you never know , your Grandfather may well be credited as one of the possible importers into this rainy, kidney pie eating isle .

Phil:
No , and I make a point of never eating anything that I can,t pronounce !

Linda Smith:
I have always associated Bagels with American Jewish culture primarily because that is how I first became aware of them through American film/tv and literature . I did not grow up in a cosmopolitan enviroment so never encountered them although they are they are quite commonly available everywhere now .
I feel I may have been a little harsh on Margaret M J. I will offer the excuse that I have a sore foot and a hangover!

stanley Jerusalem

Suffokbor - Bagels have been available in the UK[or at least the Aldgate High Street part] since the end of the 19th Century. They were popularised for the masses during the 80's with the rise of fast food outlets [also near Aldgate High Street!] in the City of London and spread thereafter to all points.
The internationalisation of the Bagel, subject for a Ph.D. thesis perhaps, might be yet another contribution of the Jews to British society.

phil

Suffolkbor maybe you could try blooms in golders green --(020) 8455 1338
130 Golders Green Road
London
NW11 8HB

* -The chicken soup is a sure remedy for a hangover and kishkes applied to a foot together with feshnoggie make for great relief. You have no idea what you are missing----

.Linda-A bagel is used for resting your chin in whilst sipping the soup :) and a kuchan is used over each ear when derek the blade speaks ,small slices of new green cucumbers are placed over each eye when he comes round a corner.oh and btw if you have not tasted my friend SWEETIE,S (A NEW POSTER)lokshen pudding ,you have never lived .---

Well at least this is more fun than reading the thought,s of chairman blades

Suffolkbor

Stanley and Phil:
Thank you for your respective replies .
I had to look up kishkes and kugle which I thought was Yiddish for a kiss and a cuddle !
I would not be at all surprised if someone did a PhD.thesis on the cultural significance of the bagel as every item of food however grand or humble has a story to tell .

It is interesting how familiar names and descriptions of various types of food govern the reaction to them .
There is a story about the Beatles when they first became famous going to a restaurant where a bowl of Mange Tout Peas were about to be served when the meal arrived . John Lennon was suspicious of them as he did not , at that time , know what they were .
Being less than enthusiastic he eventually relented saying
" Allright, you can put them on the table , but not near the food!

Original Tony

Peter Thomas..4:12pm...I stand corrected, yes the overall quota was 75 000, not per year.

Thank you for your very good post.

stanley Jerusalem

I did, of course, mean British society with a small s.

stanley Jerusalem

Suffolkbor - Cute, but not as cute as His Honour Lord Mandelson when at the hustings in 1997, went into a Hartlepool chip shop and asked for skate and some of that guacamole, pointing at the mushy peas. So much for education and savoir faire. John Lennon on the other hand, managed to paraphrase King David and Wilhelm Goethe with " How do you make God smile? Tell him your plans."

felicitas

I think this is getting very funny, Melanie's blog should became Broadway or West End comedy show in the future, any time I read i end up laughing

hadrian

Paul Berman's assertion that Christianity is a major anti-semitic driving force needs some tempering.
As a calvinist Christian I think it very easy from history to demonstrate that Protestant Reformed Christianity has a long and constant record of protection towards the Jews: Cromwell being a prime example. On the front pages of the Britiah Church Newspaper you will find a headline reporting on a recent Conference of 125 parliamentarians at Lancaster House called specifically out of concern for the rise in Anti-Semitism that lazy thinking on the Middle East has been engendering. The British Church Newspaper specifically requested someone to represent them there as they , as Reformed/Protestant Christians share the alarm at how sloppy reporting in the secular media and among 'liberal' anti-Bible Christians is creating this climate.
Anti-semitism does still lurk in the bosom of the Roman Church, admittedly, as the recent furore over the arch reactionary, Bishop Williams of the PiusX Society, indicates.
Biblically there can be NO grounds whatsoever for singling out the Jews as worse than anyone else. In the Acts of the Apostles(Chap4v25-28) we are explicitly told that GENTILE as well as Jew contributed to Christ's death and ALL are invited freely to Christ. True Christianity cordially bids people turn to Christ, it does not seek their destruction, least of all the Ancient Covenanted People by whom all the standards of civilisation flowed.

ahad ha'amoratsim

Phi, was your question about lokshen kugel, potato kugel or Yerushalmi (yeah, I know that's made from lokshen too, but it merits its own category) kugel?

stanley Jerusalem

ahad ha'amoratsim - One deems it inappropriate to dwell on the complexities of cooking vermicelli in a period of stress.Kindly redirect your focus to Liberal fascism in the modern world.
I personally can't stand Yerushalmi Kugel. It's neither fish nor fowl.
A dish which cannot make up its mind as to whether it be a dessert or a main course side dish is unworthy of discussion in these hallowed portals.

Suffolkbor

How about a Marmite sandwich ?

phil

ahad ha'amoratsim to the detriment of my health I love them all ,but these days feshnoggi is hard to find -I think the physio,s have cornered the market ,and soon enough not only will we have the George Foreman grill but the Ronaldo feshnoggi pack .

phil

hadrian I do not think you need be concerned ,the average Jewish person lives very happily alongside the Christian population of our country ,those with freakish ideas and of all persuasions make a lot of noise as is amply demonstrated on these columns ,but the rest of us are more than happy with our mutual relationship.If you ever want a piece of kugel you will be welcome in my home :)

stanley Jerusalem

Suffolkbor
March 3rd, 2009 10:59am

How about a Marmite sandwich ?
Surely you know the entire world is divided in two. Those that do and those that don't like Marmite.
Sadly, I'm one of the latter.

Phil - I presume you are referring to that caviar of kosher princes, feess [A.K.A. fisnogi, p'tcha or galaretta],
preferably with lots of knobbal and with slices of hard-boiled egg embedded in the surface.

phil

Suffolkbor
March 3rd, 2009 10:59am

How about a Marmite sandwich ?-IS IT KOSHER:?--------

STANLEY-I must say a bowl of soup mit lokshen would do me the world of good today as I have to admit that sinfully I partook of a dish of gambas pil pil last night full of knoble AND THE BELLY IS NISHT GUT !!!OY VEH :):):many in Rishon le Zion may not know what that is -its prawns in chilli oil and garlic and now I know why its not Kosher !!!

Isnt this more fun than hearing from georgie and derek ?

Suffolkbor

Stanley and Phil :
Marmite is probably not Kosher but that is probably a mild compliment compared to the other half of the world who don,t like it .
I believe the Americans who have tried it refer to it as
" Axle Grease "!

stanley Jerusalem

Suffolkbor - Sorry mate but Marmite [UGH!] is kosher - and absolutely disgusting. But, as I said before, I'm one of the 50% who doesn't like it.
BTW, how on earth do they know what Axle Grease tastes like? Spelled like that I thought he was a German weight-lifter.

Phil - Three Hail Marys and two complete renderings of the Kappitle T'hilim of your choice. Ego te absolvo in nomine Rav Rashi un der ganze mishpocher.
Eating tarfas brings its own rewards - Sheigetz!

Henrietta Shoemaker

I am hungry now, I don't mind going to Golders Green for some yummy good Jewish food

Suffolkbor

During the period of power of Benito Mussolini in Italy any anti facist agitator that was caught was forced to drink a whole bottle of Castor Oil as a punishment .
History does not record the details of what their fate was thereafter ,
although it would be safe to assume that they spent the rest of the war "On The Run"!

Could we not do the same to terrorist suspects nowadays only using Marmite instead?

stanley Jerusalem

Suffolkbor - forced to drink a whole bottle of Castor Oil as a punishment .
I'm sorry but that would be an affront to the bowels of democracy and infringe their fundamental rights. Still it's better than what poor Georgi Markov got - an injection of ricin in the leg with a bulgarian KGB umbrella hollow hypodermic needle.Castor oil but not as we all know it. Who said Il Duce wasn't a kind man?
Still anything's preferable to Marmite.

Oliwagino Alefava Yihiri

How about Cheesecake?

yum-yum

phil

well guys we seem to have shut the meshuggenes up -maybe they have gone to blooms for a fress -suppose not ,the laird will be on haggis and who knows what the blade eats

translation for anyone who doesnt understand yiddish but enjoys good humour ----------------meshuggena(not in my spell check means nutter and fress is to eat .:)
BUT SERIOUSLY ISNT IT AMAZING WE CAN HAVE A LAUGH AND THEY ALL DISAPPEAR ,MUST BE SOMETHING IN IT !

John Edwards

or alternatively you could just face reality and accept that Israel's critics are motivated by a desire for justice for the Palestinians after over 60 years of exile, occupation and oppression.

Does supporting the people of Tibet against colonisation of their land make me a Chinese hater as well?

stanley Jerusalem

John Edwards - No, just a biased fool.

phil

John Edwards-other than us you are free to hate anyone you like .you have never exhibited anything else but that to us -so should we assume you are not biased?

stanley Jerusalem

John Edwards
March 3rd, 2009 11:25pm

or alternatively you could just face reality and accept that Israel's critics are motivated by a desire for justice for the Palestinians after over 60 years of exile, occupation and oppression.
If that's what youi base your feelings on then how about 2000 years worth?

Suffolkbor

Phil:
Never under estimate the power of humour .
Those of an ideological bent cannot handle it or feel able to join in and they absolutely hate being laughed at .

Theirs is the viewpoint of the stereotypical German :
" Humour is no laughing matter !"

stanley Jerusalem

Suffolkbor - Old Polynesian Proverb.

He who laughs, lasts.

phil

Suffolkbor-I have enjoyed our little interlude -nice to have a break from the serious stuff some times -see you around no doubt.

Abe Bird

Carl; Britain opposed any Jewish refugees, before the war and during the war, to escape from Germany and Europe and let them to find refuge in their empire, especially in Palestine. By that they let the Jews unguarded to be slaughtered by the Nazis. British anti-semitism always was a core element in the British foreign policy. But when the British needed the help of the Jews they played softly with them (1956 war against Egypt).