Exit, spraying venom

Brian Moshe

Melanie, thanks for this really good news. It is better that Charles Freeman has gone rather than stayed, whether we Jews are blamed for it or not.

The Triguy

For once is right. Now if the rest of the world can start to understand that the "Keystone Cops" are in charge of the White House (and environs) we might get some honest appraisals of how this administration is just blowing everything they touch. One term and then we can get back to some adult leadership!

Straydingo

Surely those that blindly voted for "The One" are now starting to see the error they have made.

Obama clearly does not have the ability to lead, especially in the current times we live in, how many appointments to key positions have now turned out to be a disaster. If he is unable to judge the character of those from within his own party – how on earth is he supposed to be able to make informed judgements when dealing with Iran, China, Russia, Hezbollah, Hamas etc etc etc.
If he was a Republican President the papers and evening news would be wall to wall with coverage on what an incompetent leader he was.

Gil

I'm usually with MP, but on this issue: Would Charles Freeman really have been in a 'pivotal position over American intelligence'? I doubt it. There are so many competing bureaucracies in the US Intelligence and Foreign Policy establishment that it is hard to get worked up over this particular position. I have read elsewhere that the position was more 'academic' than operational. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Perhaps we need more information on this.

Truthtriumphs.

It must be hammered home again and again that the gross lie that it is the "Israel Lobby" which controls western policy, especially in the US, is nothing but a shameless front for the oldest hatred.
All the "Israel lobby" tries to do is to safeguard a tiny area of land (mainly desert turned into a flourishing land by the efforts of Jews themselves with their backs to the wall for the 60 years of Israel's existence), that area being only a part of the land in which the Jewish people had dominion for some 1700 years, long before any of the world's great religions or nations came into being. In fact, the Jews are the ONLY people to have had sovereignty there in all of history!
Rather, the Arab/Muslim lobby of which Chas Freeman et al play an integral part,should be exposed for its ruthless ambitions and modus operandi.
Arabia controls vast areas of the globe, the most important energy reserves, and it continues apace with its ruthless expansionism by the sword, in places like Nigeria, Sudan, Kashmir.
In Europe the conquest continues apace, except that, thanks to people like Freeman, Walt and Meersheimer, the sword is unnecessary.

Well done ,Melanie!

Rob-NY

I knew he withdrew but I was not aware of his Jew baiting parting shot (and this corrupted media would never report it). freeman will be a hero of the far-left and far-right now. When will this bile begin to rub off on Obama who instigated the rise of fellow travellers like this.

GaryO

This guy should be hounded out from every government job he gets. I sometimes wish there really was an all powerful Jewish conspiracy, if for nothing else than at least to counter the Arabist lobby that is now appears to be dominating the new US administration.

steve

Gil, You are absolutely right. Melanie exaggerates the significance of Freeman. But then exaggeration is the consistent thread across the polemics that she posts on here. Melanie is right in that Freeman clearly did not like some of the policies carried out by the governmen of Israel. However, I'm not sure how that constitutes "anti-Jewish bigotry".

Gert

@ Linda Smith:

Two of Mel's posts earlier you addressed me:

"Gert, you posted: Critics of USrael want to see an injustice redressed".
Please specify the injustice you are referring to.

I keep seeing vague comments such as yours posted on these threads and wish that the posters would say what they mean clearly in order for their point to be understood. We are not mindreaders."

I posted a longish response to that. Not surprisingly, it didn't get published. It's not the first time, nor will it be the last time but when at first... try, try again. Reconstructing from memory, it went like this:

1. There was no occupation of Palestinian lands prior to 1948, after 1948 and after 1967, of course. There are no Palestinian refugees, neither from 1948, nor from 1967.

2. There was no Naqba or dispossession of the Palestinian People.

3. There are no Israeli settlements on Palestinian lands. No 400,000 or so Israelis live outside the Green Line. There is no occupation of East Jerusalem.

4. The UN (and almost all its members, including the US) does not condemn those settlements.

5. There is no continuous and prolonged destruction of Palestinian properties (houses and orchards/farm lands) in the West Bank.

6. The PLO did not recognise the state of Israel, nor did it relinquish violence and accept a political process.

7. Hamas did not win, fairly and squarely, the Palestinian elections in 2006.

8. There are no Israelis that accept all the above to be wholly untrue and in sharp contradiction with the established facts.

9. There is only HAMAS! And Palestinian terrorism! And the fact that YHWH gave the land to the Jews!

Dear Israel-Firsters: on points 1. to 7. you won't find a single Israeli historian or historiographer who even remotely accepts these points or has ever accepted them. Whether they be Zionist or more critical of the Jewish State, all are in agreement about these points being the opposite of the simple truth. Trying to smear those who accept these truths as anti-Semites, self-hating Jews, Nazis or such like simply doesn't change that. And the mud doesn't even stick anymore.

I have seen better efforts to seek the truth on Flat Earth Society forums than I do here, and that's quite an achievement!

PC

Hillary Clinton just announced that US taxpayers are giving one million dollars for Palestinian scholarships.

Between these anti-Semitic actions and Obama snubbing Gordon Brown, it looks like this administration is trying to piss off every friend the US has.

PW Virginia USA

The simple fact is that the a clear majority of the American people and the Congress support Israel. So in reality the Freemans and Walts etc. of the world are upset that their views are not supported, so they invent this all powerful lobby that trumps the will of the people. BTW there is also a Saudi Lobby in the USA and I'm sure many others, yet their influence is dependent on their support among the people and their representatives in the USA...

Carl

Steve, it is because to the people that post here, any criticism of Israel is shouted down as "anti semitism" or "Jew hatred" or "self hating Jew". They haven't yet learned to cope with the fact that hysterical name calling is no longer enough for people to be forced to ignore Israel's brutality against Palestinians.

cba

Many of the comments I've read (on two articles that cover this) are vicious in the extreme:
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/03/10/freeman_speaks_out_on_his_exit
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/03/exiting-chas-fr.html#comments

phil

Carl no my boy it is because you lie repeatedly and we will not stand by and say nothing -tell the truth and be critical that is not anti-semitism -you seem unable to comply with that simple request.

phil

gert prior to Linda dealing with your twisting of the facts AND NO DOUBT YOU WILL GET A BETTER RESPONSE FROM HER
1 there are no Palestinian lands ,where is the legal case for there being any?
2 it was self inflicted
3 as one -east Jerusalem was occupied prior to 1967 by Jordan
4 now you are being provocative ,everyone knows that the Un is dominated by the Muslim countries except fortunately where it counts .
5 ,we need the courts to answer that,not you
6 does hamas ,hesbollah etc recognise the Israelis right to live never mind exist as a state .
7 do you think so ?
8 figments of the imagination
9 now you are being silly ,even you know that .

Now gert do you think any of us flat earth people will believe what you say when you write such distortions of the truth ?WE ACTUALLY WANT TO SEE PEACE AND JUSTICE FOR BOTH PEOPLES -DO YOU?

israel

Gil and Steve:

Just a little something on Steven Rosen, a former director of AIPAC and the man in the US who lead the call to arms against Freeman:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-03-10/obamarsquos-mideast-policy-smackdown/

I'm sure Mel and her friends will comment on what a great figure he is.

An American

How does Obama manage to come up with so many losers?

Is it because these losers reflect what Obama believes in...

As for Freeman...goodbye to bad rubbish.

Scipio

The man was a Saudi agent and an apologist for the Red Chinese. It says a lot about "Little Boots" aka Caligula in the White House that he was even nominated. To all you stupid Leftists and the joke we call the media in America, take note. This what happens when you elect an idiot that has Zero life or job experience. Yeah, he may sound good in front of a teleprompter, but in reality, there is nothing there save hot air.

David

Melanie's test is basically "Do you agree with everything Israel does", which is hardly evidence of complex thought. As has been pointed out elsewhere, Freeman had a lot of reasoned support from across the board, including many Jews (it's a shame that needs to be qualified, but that's what Melanie's approach does"). People like Melanie are making a serious mistake in their approach to these issues, whcih is to essentially fail to distinguish reasoned criticism from hatred. Do that, you lose the right for our cause to be heard, whcih is even more dangerous for real friends of Israel.

"Hillary Clinton just announced that US taxpayers are giving one million dollars for Palestinian scholarships"

If you could explain how this is anti-semitic please?

Larry

what Jew-hate characters like Gert and Carl fail to understand, and always will fail to understand, is there is a difference between valid and fair criticism of Israel and invalid and deceitful criticism of Israel, which by its nature is anti-Semitic. Gert and Carl engage in anti-Semitic criticism of Israel and so are anti-Semitic. Simple to understand the difference, but naturally they will never get the difference.

HarleyDavidson

I hate to put a damper on the Freeman is toast victory bit, however, the Obama administration appears to WANT Jew hating team members then Obama will simply find another Freeman type moron.

In my opinion Melaine touched on the real in her last sentence . . . the man who appointed Freeman, the Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair, who appears to have been manipulating information to get his man approved.

This is the real story, Dennis Blair, and his team. Once you and your team is known to manipulate information for your own purposes the entire Obama administration loses credibility. Perhaps that is far more damaging in the long run especially for an administration so early in their mandate. Nothing like manipulating information brings out the scrutineers more than this. Let me tell you folks this president has as good as shot himself in the foot because everything he say and does will be poured over with a fine tooth comb . . . the dogs of war have been loosened on the Obama administration.

Even NEWSWEEK, an American news publication has an article out this week with the following:
----------------------------
A TURNING TIDE?
Obama still has the approval of the people, but the establishment is beginning to mumble that the president may not have what it takes.
-----------------------------
How can I add to that?

Gert

@Phil:

If the truth came creeping out of your nose you wouldn't recognise it.

But you're absolutely right: the UN is dominated by Muslim countries. Yeah, like the US, UK, France, Russia etc etc. Despite the powerful lobby the current US administration (run by Hussein Obama, I hasten to add), as all of them before this one, is opposed to settlements and in favour of withdrawal from most of them. Must be them pesky Arabs controlling Congress and the Senate (and the WH, OF COURSE) again. Sound like the 'Protocols of the Elders of Mecca', if you ask me...

What kind of justice do you want? I'm guessing it involves transfer of Palestinians to 'Arabia'.

Me? I'm all for a just two state solution. But Israel is sleepwalking into a one state solution because it won't change course. And it's aided an abetted by cuckoolanders like you. I propose Hamas surrenders completely and then we'll see how Israel would respond: their future actions are clearly made public statement by past and present "leaders" (if you can call Netanyahu and Lieberman 'leaders').

Do you think continuing expansion by Israel improves its security? Does it stop the rockets? Do the rockets justify the settlements? The demolitions?

"Power differential", anyone?

You're essentially a Ufologist that wondered onto the wrong forum.

Now I'll leave you all to play in this sandbox of yours. Don't steal any buckets and spades, d'you hear?

Scipio

Chas Freeman - the soft and flabby face of a well fed appeaser.

israel

HarleyDavidson:

Even NEWSWEEK, an American news publication has an article out this week with the following:
----------------------------
A TURNING TIDE?
Obama still has the approval of the people, but the establishment is beginning to mumble that the president may not have what it takes.
-----------------------------
How can I add to that?

Ah yes, the Howard Fineman column. There is a fine response to it from Whiskey Fire:

http://whiskeyfire.typepad.com/whiskey_fire/2009/03/howard-fineman-one-of-us-one-of-us.html

The money quote about this actually comes from Adam Serwer who sums up Fineman column as:

"When will these idiot voters realize that we are supposed to tell them what to think?"

Adam B.

Carl, your refusal to condemn the anti-Semitic hamas charter, and your open support for that terror organization which promises to exterminate evry Jew, IS anti-Semitism.

Go on Carl, admit it.

Adam B.

steve, Freeman didn't simply attack a policy of Israel. He attacked jewish support for israel, and the Jews directly (albeit in hidden language). Surely you can see that?

PW Virginia USA

Carl...your routine expression of "brutality towards Palestinians" is wrong in fact and history. Since the 1880's Arabs have been killing Jews working the land of Israel. The brutality of Arabs against Jews has a long history. During the opening weeks of the War of Independence Arabs committed brutal atrocities against Jews. Dismembering bodies of surrendering Jews. The 1950's saw terrorist murders...this before the Israelis liberated Judea and Samaria from Jordan...The brutality of the 2000 terror war and the launching rockets into Sderot... this brutality continues. So Carl as you try to keep the "BIG LIE" going it will be exposed by many sources, myself included...

Yehuda

American political and military leaders regularly call Israel an important ally: if they truly believe this, then Freeman's departure will have contributed to preserving the alliance.
Freeman's rhetoric shows that he is not a critic of Israeli policies, but an American mouthpiece of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Yehuda

Unfortunately the omnipotence of the Jewish lobby in the USA(and elsewhere) is a myth. Given the power of the international lobbies that want to see Israel wiped from the map (Western rhetoric, however, is more sophisticated than Ahmadinejad's), Israel needs more leverage in American corridors of power.

Rob-NY

To think this nutter was nominated by Obama to look after nation security. How many others like him have been vetted by the Obama minions and confirmed? Tragically with this pathetic lap-dog media we will only find out in the aftermath of another 9/11. Only then will we realise that George W. Bush actually saved the lives of those in the US and UK who hated him with every fiber of their being.

Michael B

It's not in the least surprising to see Chas Freeman evidence his viperist and venomist credentials as he exits this latest stage of his career. Likewise, it's not surprising to observe his supporters using tactics that range from misdirection and other obfuscations to ad hominem slights to rank forms of contempt and a tout court dismissiveness - combinations thereof as well. There are simple and genuinely naive forms of ignorance - but there are long habituated and long cultivated forms of ignorance as well, born of falseness and born of pride and willfullness and insouciance, and the like.

Rob-NY

Freeman muttered something about "easily traceable email trails" in his parting tantrum.
Considering some of Freeman's mates, that sounds like a mild threat. Again, this was Obama's choice to oversee state secrets.
Obama incompetance is seriously damaging the USA and it has only been 50 days.

Straydingo

Interesting read:

http://www.quadrant.org.au/magazine/issue/2009/3/obama-and-the-weathermen

Cheers

Straydingo

phil

Gert
March 11th, 2009 5:26pm

@Phil:

"If the truth came creeping out of your nose you wouldn't recognise it. well at least you would see it "-where yours might come from could not be on public view -you are a fool to engage me in stupid rhetoric you will never come off better -why because a person consumed with hate is always the loser ,and you are certainly a loser gert .Those like you give me a release from the stresses of the day and we all need a little amusement ,at your expense of course .

Al Ramy

Freeman is one of many crackpots the Boslheviks operatives, students of Saul Alinsky nominated. Samantha Power "not my advisor" is now embed in the National Security Council.
Director Downy, who concieved the independent movie Putney Swope, in the late 60's could never dream such a mad outcome for the country as having so many clowns in power, for more:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/03/voters_obama_folly_coming_home.html

An American

Rob-NY

It's unbelievable that Freeman threatened our free speech by looking into our emails...I think that many of us commenting here fear that this will be coming down the road.

Obama is trying to shut down Limbaugh, Hannity and anyone who has the bravery to speak out against his socialist agenda...we'll be next.

Big brother has arrived. We all need to be aware where this is taking us and fight it with all of our might.

I'm mad as hell that this degenerate has the nerve to threaten American citizens and my free speech, but I'm not surprised. His son went on a similar rant several days ago.

HarleyDavidson is correct. Freeman is just the tip of the iceberg of the far-left liberals that Obama has appointed to the National Intelligence Council. My fear is that they will turn their intelligence search-intimidation toward conservative US citizens instead of enemies of the state.

History is repeating itself.

just Louise

I commented last night (post didn't get through, evidently) that last evening PressTV, Iran's propaganda news channel now beamed into British homes 24/4, had a long hate-fest over this matter, blaming "the Israel lobby" in America for Freeman's downfall, and trotting out two US-based pundits, Ray McGovern and Ian Williams, to inveigh against the lobby and its "power". Several people were named as probably influencing Obama - Rahm Emanuel's name was inevitably heard. McGovern hoped that Obama would yet find the strength to defy "the lobby" and despatch an envoy to Bibi Netanyahu pronto to tell the Israelis forcibly that they must not strike at Iran's nuclear capability and expect help from the USA. All the while, web front pages of a host of American Jewish organisations (religious and secular) were shown, one after another, onscreen ...

just Louise

I meant "beamed into British homes 24/7" (forgive the error -it was around dawn when I posted!!!)

Bill M

So what if there is an Israeli Lobby that has a heavy influence on our policy makers decisions? Isn't it the purpose of lobby organizations to do their best to influence favorable outcomes?

Can we talk about the Saudi Lobby and the heavy influence it has on our policy makers and past presidents' decisions? Or the China Lobby and the heavy influence it has on our policy makers and past presidents' decisions? Then let's talk about Charles Freeman.

Thanks to the Middle East Forum for exposing this Saudi and Chinese funded lobbyist---the kind of lobbyist that Obama said would not participate in his Administration.

The concern now is who's next up to the plate?

LogicalSC

What would you expect from a radical leftist such as Obama?

This is a man who's judgment lead him to pick the anti-American racist, Jeremiah Wright as a "spiritual mentor"? And Obama has a spoken eloquently of another raving Jew-hater, Louis Farrahkan, not to mention the tape which has been held hostage by the LA TIMES showing Barry's little glowing tribute to another rabid Jew-hater, Rashid Khalidi.

Reality is that our beloved leftists elected the first true racist, Jew-hater to the Presidency.
Have they NO shame?

Linda Smith

Gert: in response to your post to me "Critics of USrael want to see an injustice redressed" (11 Mar 2:21pm), I endorse the opinions given in the following extracts from Internet Jerusalem Post http://info.jpost.com/C003/Supplements/Refugees/4.html:

"The Palestinian refugees are victims, yes - but not of Israel. Rather, they are the victims of wars launched - ostensibly for them - by the Arab states, but for which they pay the price. They are the victims, effectively, of Arab aggression against Israel.

"Had the Palestinians accepted the UN [partition] resolution instead of waging an aggressive war, there would have been no refugees.... The initial refugee problem of 1948 was exacerbated when Egypt and Syria launched the Six Day War.... Never before in history have those who lost wars of aggression been deemed equal partners in the negotiation, and for good reason," writes legal expert Prof. Alan Dershowitz of Harvard University. The "good reason," of course, is that aggressors should not have incentives for perpetrating acts of aggression.
Dershowitz notes the unabated hostility toward Israel demonstrated by Palestinians over the years, as exemplified by their conspicuous support for Saddam Hussein during the Gulf War.

"Over the course of the conflict the Palestinians ... continue to play the violence card as part of their negotiating strategy. Indeed, the major bargaining chip they bring to the table is the threat of renewed violence if they don't get their way. Another chip has been the one- sided refusal of the UN to condemn them for their aggression and terrorism.

"There must be a price paid for starting and losing wars... Aggressors should be made to absorb refugees created by their aggression."

"There is a parallel between the German Sudets and the Palestinian refugees - except that the latter refuse to accept the universal code that aggressors must pay for their acts."

"Another example of international justice following WWII is the decision arrived at by Roosevelt, Stalin, and Churchill at the Potsdam Conference. The three agreed that Germany should compensate Poland for attacking and ravaging the country, by ceding sizable territory to it."

Raymond in DC

Gil writes, "There are so many competing bureaucracies in the US Intelligence and Foreign Policy establishment that it is hard to get worked up over this particular position. .l. Perhaps I'm wrong."

No, it's not an "academic" position, it is the coordinating body intended to meld intelligence from 16 agencies - MIA, NSA, DIA, CIA, etc. - into a "consensus" analysis. NIC is the group that puts together the National Intelligence Estimate. We saw back in December, 2007 just how significant the NIE can be when they argued that Iran had abandoned its drive for nuclear weaponry in 2003. Most intelligence agencies in the US and the West did not accept that judgement, but the NIC analysis was the official judgement.

So the post is a significant one, and to expect someone so biased as Freeman not to color the NIC analysis to fit his prejudices wasn't realistic.

Gary McFarlane

Since the news was leaked of his nomination, the pro-Israel crowd has been up in arms because of Freeman's perceived history of opposition to Israel's policies in Palestine.

Excellent article by Glen Greenwald on Salon in a wide-ranging survey detailing the weakening of the hold of the neocon/Israel lobby in Washington, despite the mugging of Freeman.

http://gazasolidarity.blogspot.com/2009/03/freeman-affair-commentators-ask-how.html

Adam B.

Gary McFarlane's post demonstrates the Freeman is an Israel hater, and thus loved by Mr McFarlane. See where Freeman's support is coming from - rabid Israel haters.

Case closed.

Linda Smith

For Gert, Carl, and all other bigots who bang on about dispossession and Palestinian refugees, please read the following extract.

For the full article go to http://info.jpost.com/C003/Supplements/Refugees/12-13.html
There you will read about Arab brutality to their subordinated Jews since time immemorial. Note that there were Jews in what is known as Iraq before Islam was invented.:

"In all, some 867,000 Jews were brutally expelled from Arab countries, and tens of billions in Jewish assets were seized by Arab governments. Israel spent over $14 billion on aiding them in their flights, on their rehabilitation and full absorption.

There is parity between the 650,000 Palestinian refugees resulting from the 1948 war and the 700,000 Jews who fled from Arab lands and were absorbed by Israel. By sheer logic, a "transfer," painful for both parties, has been effected.
Dr. Ya'akov Meron, a lawyer and Orientalist at the Israeli Ministry of Justice, explains this:

"Actually, what happened was a kind of 'population and property exchange,' and each party must bear the consequences. Israel is absorbing the Jews of Arab states; the Arab states, for their part, must settle the Palestinians in their own midst and solve their problems. There is no doubt that, at the first serious discussion of the Palestinian problem in an international forum, Israel will put these claims forward."
"Actually, what happened was a kind of 'population and property exchange,' and each party must bear the consequences. Israel is absorbing the Jews of Arab states; the Arab states, for their part, must settle the Palestinians in their own midst and solve their problems. There is no doubt that, at the first serious discussion of the Palestinian problem in an international forum, Israel will put these claims forward."

US President Bill Clinton also labored this point in June 2000, saying that,"There is, I think, some interest ... on both sides in also having a fund which compensates the Israelis who were made refugees by the war, which occurred after the birth of the State of Israel. Israel is full of people, Jewish people, who lived in predominantly Arab countries who came to Israel because they were made refugees in their own land.

However, it is clear that the Arab countries are reluctant - to say the least - to absorb their Palestinian brethren. Nor will they accept the idea of compensating the banished Jews for their economic losses."

Original Tony

Long live Israel!!!!!!!

phil

David mar 11 --

David ""Hillary Clinton just announced that US taxpayers are giving one million dollars for Palestinian scholarships"

If you could explain how this is anti-Semitic please?-------"

I can,t ,I don,t and I won,t-it is the best hope for this whole sorry debacle -Let those Palestinians get a good and reasoned education and give them a chance to join the real world where care and compassion count rather than what they are being taught ,which is to hate Jews and Israel -Maybe then they will give their own children a life that all children deserve -one filled with love and without fear .is it wishful thinking ?

Sadly some here will no doubt assassinate HC,s character for this and somehow blame O too -sometimes it makes me weep when I see such comments and then I am told I am a socialist ,when if I am able to decide for myself I know I am a middle of the road Tory who happens to care for other people .,and one who would have voted for McCain had he not brought in that disastrous woman .(assuming I had a vote of course)---

There is such venom spouted here against O and his government whatever he does right or wrong and for sure he is doing a fair share of both -That does not make him a beast,just a normal human being trying his best to make our world better and backed by the majority of America -There are white American supremacists determined to put this man down and there are decent people being deluded by their talk -it is they that will ruin our world not him , nor will it be ruined by those that do not want to vote for him because they prefer Republican policies -that is real democracy at work not the filth that pours out of racist mouths -I do not believe we have any of those here but I feel some are being deluded by the weight of hate that has filled the columns of all papers these past months .

I keep saying we have to pull together to counter the dire position of our economies ,we desperately need to build back confidence in the monetary system ,keep people in work -yes by paying higher taxes later when we can more afford them and give the governments a chance to get taxation income and avoid so many on social security .this is not rocket science and yet on another thread a lady who I like ,is telling me I don't know what I am talking about-I do not mind that but I am bothered by the damage it does to our confidence -O can be kicked out in four years time if he does a poor job meanwhile we need to support our governments or we will all fall together -

Ann

"Melanie is right in that Freeman clearly did not like some of the policies carried out by the governmen of Israel. However, I'm not sure how that constitutes "anti-Jewish bigotry".

Steve, Learn to read. It's not a question of 'not liking' - it's a question of being linked to Saudi and Chinese state interests. And then he has the gall to talk about 'another country' and accuse others of his own anti-American interests - and THEN spew antisemitic drivel about the 'Global Zio-Jewish(TM) lobby'.
Couldn't have happened to a nicer tarantula.

Ann

"one who would have voted for McCain had he not brought in that disastrous woman"

And then Phil has the impertinence to accuse others of 'venom' ... like a true hypocrite, he always projects his own deficiencies on others.

Freeman has proved to be an antisemite. Obama wanted to appoint him to an important national security position. Obama's pastor for 20 years was an antisemite. Which part of all this can't you understand?

phil

Ann I see they have let you out again,which part of my most moderate post offended you ?Do you want a peaceful world or just one where you are allowed to spew bile and say nothing constructive. I have told you before and I will say again Jewish people and Israel are demeaned by those that can only spout invective and hate-So far I have never seen one word of constructive help from you only ranting at any one who says anything peaceful.I could match you word for word with the aid of a tourettes dictionary ,but I choose not too. Why not just try to be pleasant? and say you have a different opinion nicely ,its just as effective and would give you a far different profile. One can only live in hope .

MV

Some questions worth pondering:
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/03/hbc-90004550

phil

MV nothing historically you ever post here is worth pondering -it is just repetitive anti-Israeli drivel.I have to compliment you on your energy but never your direction -try power walking ,you may like that or watch the dog whisperer .its very educational .

MV

phil
I post articles that contain ARGUMENTS. You haven't mastered those yet. After hundreds of posts you have yet to make a single cogent point (lots of nastiness though). You are, as another poster said, a sad case.
And thick too. Israel could use better defenders than lonely know-nothings like you. Please post this, so as to at least give voice to what many other people think.

phil

MV thanks for your joke - you are obviously a master of telepathy too ,sorry you cannot read or comprehend my posts ,most others can ,so you cant really blame me for your failings.Do you not find it strange that nobody ever agrees with you ? btw you post ARGUMENTS???-REALLY MORE LIKE ACCUSATIONS METHINKS and anything to insult ISRAEL you can find ,perhaps you will direct me to somewhere that you have posted anything nice about that country -I am not holding my breath though .

Otis Blue

phil
Don't think MV is joking. And he/she is, of course, right. The link clearly adopts a syllogism. And you don't know how to argue or have any useful points to make. C'est tout.

phil

Otis Blue I have a syllogism too but possibly more to the point !-you two are a pair of twerps -pero ir al meollo-comprende otis azul ?no estan muy complicado

Otis Blue

MV's point proved. Feel free to prove it again by another post. Bye bye.

phil

Otis Blue sorry to see you are leaving us as I enjoy the interlude between serious debate by having a little fun with idiots -especially those that have nothing to say -most of the other posters here tax my mind ,so I rely on those like you to break the stress of having to be sensible. C,EST TOUT .

Otis Blue

MV's point proved. Feel free to prove it again by another post. Bye bye again.

phil

Otis Blue forgive my enjoyment of this bit of fun,it is most relaxing. but do you actually have anything relevant to say -any language will do -mv for all the crap he wrote did have something to say however disgusting but anyone still reading this would be wondering by now what you are doing here ,both lately and in fact ever .Do you in fact have any thoughts on anything ,don't be shy sonny try to say something ,sadly -I think by now you have proved that your future is in the past and that even your promise to "push" off was a lie. .So what remains for us to think of you -nada pienso .

Otis Blue

MV's point proved. Feel free to prove it yet again by another post. Bye bye again again.