Demonising the victim

Vision Aforethought

This mind boggling trait whereby some people will literally reverse the truth is common in other aspects of life, not just politics. Am sure other readers may have been perplexed at observing individuals accuse another party of a characteristic that in fact applies to the first (accusing) party, and most definitely not to the second (innocent) party. This is a clever ploy to move the spotlight from the cause of the problem to a different, sometimes, timid or reserved target / victim.

To make things worse, once this reversal occurs, like having faeces thrown in your face, it is very difficult to remove the mess as the smelly goop gets all over your hands and everywhere else too while you try to clear your good name.

M is right, we're headed towards a war. In the past, the outcome of most wars was territory and/or a definition of freedom. The outcome of third big one will be truth. And if you think about it, mankind had this coming from a while back as we have become too timid to act on our deepest suspicions ahead of time.

Interesting times, buckle up.

Owen Morgan

The Conservatives decide (at last) to leave the anti-democratic EPP bloc (which includes Fritz Schramma's CDU) in the European parliament and are accused of being anti-democratic and of aligning themselves with fascists. People who voice healthy scepticism about so-called "climate change" are accused of being morally equivalent to holocaust-deniers. A Channel 4 exposure of the promotion of islamist hatred in British mosques fails to prompt any response from the authorities, apart from an attempt to censure the programme-makers as racists. Thomas Landen makes a good case and he is in no danger of running out of ammunition for it.

Larry

I've said it before, I'll say it again - it is ultimately very simple to understand. It is just projection, psychological transference. People always project their true nature onto the "enemy", the other.

Merlyn

It makes no sense until we recognize the government are swapping information on the next home grown terrorist attack on Britain , America or elsewhere for compliance to their demands, which include a gradual Islamisation of our Foreign and Home policy as well as a slanted viewpoint to our news to brainwash the rest of us.

seb

Larry is right. This is transference. The leaders of the Soviet Union used to describe its allegedly people-hating enemies as though it was describing itself. I used to think this was done for a laugh. Now, I think the Politburo believed what it was saying.

Isn't the phenomenon of calling everyone who's not part of the self-righteous posturing left a 'Nazi' a manifestation of humans love of groupthink? For a species as lazy as ours, acquiring a ready-made set of ideas is not only time-saving but it makes the conformist groupthinker feel part of a community, a member of the better, nicer team.

Imbeciles like our foreign secretary do not kiss up to our enemies merely because they are retarded cowards. They sincerely believe that their tactics what all morally superior progressives would adopt when trying to deal with people who hate us and want only to kill us.

Cecil

Otherwise known as dhimmitude.

Original Tony

Yes indeed, a big war is coming and as posters have already said, it won't be over land...but rather a battle between ideologies and good versus evil. It's going to be a real slugging match but I am optimistic good will prevail, as it always does.

A large part of this up-coming war will be civil in nature and I am intrigued by David Wilkerson's recent prophecy that American (and worldwide) cities will be ablaze in the near future; it may indeed have something to do with this.

Michael B

The broader phenomenon is reflected in the fact that it's increasingly rare to observe or partake in a contentious social/political exchange that does not rapidly devolve into - or that is not initiated, from the outset, via - demonizing labels, whether overtly or via innuendo and more subtly. Rather than ideas, idées fixes. Rather than the word, the label. Likewise the surfeit of petty and not so petty libels, slanders, traducements, of presumption and guile in general.

Laura

"It is why our world now makes no sense at all as it careers towards a terrible war."

Indeed. I was shocked to read Daniel Finkelstein's piece today to see the price the actor Ron Silver paid for his abandonment of the Democratic Party as it busies itself preparing the way for this war.

Like me, Mr Silver never had any time for Bush - until it came to 9/11 and foreign policy.

After voting for them all my life, I have abandoned the Labour Party solely because of its de facto sponsorship of the cultural and military jihad. I realise that there will have to be many more people who make this journey if the jihad is to be defeated but there are some of us formerly of the Left who sniffed instantly what was going on after 9/11. What truly baffles me is that if with the stink of burning flesh rising up into the New York sky, so many still don't get it. What words to these people need? Does the BBC do such a good job of covering up the stink of death and blood? Plainly it does.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/daniel_finkelstein/article5927253.ec

Sam Armstrong

I thought we were at war!

Paul Freeman

Cecil 9:36:

Exquisitely put.

Dixon

seb
March 18th, 2009 8:34am
Larry is right. This is transference. The leaders of the Soviet Union used to describe its allegedly people-hating enemies as though it was describing itself. I used to think this was done for a laugh. Now, I think the Politburo believed what it was saying."

Whilst I agree with your conclusions in the rest of your statement, Seb, you have totally misunderstood the phrase "transference".

I am no Psychoanalyst, but I can tell you that what they call "transference" is not the projection of aspects of ones own personality onto the other, but of a third party significant in relation to ones self in terms of the basal formulation of a neurosis. Typically ones father or mother. This may be reciprocated by a "counter-transference" beyond which lie numerous arcane complexities that are not really of any practical relevance to anything.

Dixon

If theres going to be any kind of big-time shooting war it will be a one-sided affair in which China nukes Saudi and their chums out of whack so as to enable them to access the oil.

What the US should have done decades ago but by which time "the West"had lost the balls to carry it out.

Other than that, this war will inevitably be won by Islam in the maternity wards of our state-funded hospitals. Mark Steyn had, I thought, demonstrated this years ago. In fifty years the majority population of Britain will be of Islamic extraction. Its inevitable. No amount of politicking will avert that statistical fact.

My view is that "Britain" as a coherent functioning entity will have disintegrated the way Jugoslavia did, long before that. It could get very entertaining.

The economic crisis is very very slowly beginning to bite...I am curious to see what happens when there is no more borrowing left to pay for the NHS or the benefit system.

Indeed, there wont be much left for our Islamic successor population to inherit anyway. Only debt!

Jerry

Dixon - correct - not transference. The proper term for the phenomenon to which Seb is referring is "projection."

Fabio P.Barbieri

Never mind the big psychological words. The process is simple and can be defined by a child. What a bad man will do is what he expects his enemies to do. He will try and subvert their societies; therefore, in his world, it is obvious that they should try to subvert his. He will plot against their lives; therefore he has to expect that they will plot against him. To him, it is simply too obvious to need proving.

david skinner

Vision Aforethought, I agree with you with regard to wars in the past being over territory. The future battle will divide all us, husbands from wives, children from parents, neighbour from neighbour over the question of what is truth with regard to existence and morals.

On this particular issue, we should not be surprised at the reversal of the positions of victim and perpetrator. Anyone who has experienced being bullied as a child will know that the bully accuses us of wanting a fight. They will do anything to find an excuse for “defending themselves.” Unfortunately the more one apologises or tries to appease them this only incenses them even more.
As Churchill said, “An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile -- hoping it will eat him last.

Linda Smith

Dixon: The correct psychodynamic term for the phenomenon under discussion is "projective identification".

Although unlike you, I have not written 3 books on Psychology, I did postgraduate training at the Tavistock Clinic

stanley Jerusalem

Linda Smith "I did postgraduate training at the Tavistock Clinic"

What matters is what you say here not where you learnt to say it.
BTW give my regards to Caroline and Arnon.

Original Tony

Michael B...that is the very nature of blogs I am afraid...but interesting nonetheless

Michael B

Original Tony, yes, the very nature of politics in general, and I realize the comment will seem trite and too cute if not placed with some limiting perspective - though I wasn't thinking of blogs in general, I was thinking of other media outlets along with those blogs and blog commenters who consider themselves to be intelligent, articulate, post-Enlightenment types, etc.

Linda Smith

Stanley Jerusalem: My comment to Dixon re his 3 books and my training at the Tavistock Clinic related to his rant at me on another thread. I departed the Tavi years ago.

George Laird

Dear All

Still no regret about the treatment of the Palestinian people.

Nothing just comment how the Israeli "victims" are remined of their war crimes.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

Adam B.

George,

I'll ask you again.

Do you campaign about any human rights issues in the Middle East other than Gaza?

I (still) await your reply.

Yours even more sincerely.

Jose Garcia

I have asked george about his campaign for human rights before but i had no answer

Where are your articles about the destruction of christian churches in kosovo, the radicalisation of arabs in the middle east? the use of human shields by hamas , the breakout of the 6 months ceasefire unilaterally by hamas.

The continuous and concerted lies at the UNWRA and BBC?
regarding the school bombings

The brutal regimes of comunist China ,Cuba, Russia .

The corruption in southafrica
Zimbawe.

Where are your daily articles published ?

And finally but not last what part of the hamas charter recognises israel and the right of existance for jews to live in peace, maybe in chapter 7

"regret about the treatement of palestinian people"

you mean the billions they are given EVERY YEAR in "AID" or should i say weapons to kill jews?.

what do you call 6000 rockets launched at schools and hospitals in israel.

I call them PALESTINIAN WAR CRIMES.

And people like you keep spreading the same lies and prejudices, as if this has anything to do with lands or countries.

Truly pathetic Campaign for Human wrongs in Glasgow University

Rodders

david skinner
March 18th, 2009 2:25pm
"The future battle will divide all us, husbands from wives, children from parents, neighbour from neighbour over the question of what is truth with regard to existence and morals".

I disagree. I think the truth is plain to anyone who wants to see it. And for those who don't want to, there's nothing like the hardship of a war to make them revise their position or focus on what matters to them.

Miranda Rose Smith

When people call the Israelis Nazis or accuse them of wanting to ethnically cleanse the so-called "Palestinians," its an open and shut, textbook case of projection. They want Israel and the Jews finished off and they project that onto the Israelis. Its been said that rose colored glasses do not come in bifocals because no one reads the fine print in dreams. Have these people never read the fine print in their dream of "No-Israel?" The fine print is that Europe, where a lot of these people live, is next on the Islamofascist hit list. The European Union army couldn't fight off the Arabs because they couldn't fight off a Brownie troop armed with plastic baseball bats. If its being Nazis for the ISRAELIS to shoot back when Arabs shoot at them, it will be being Nazis for the FRENCH or the BRITISH or the SPANISH to shoot back when the Arabs shoot at them. If Pim Fortuyn was a Fascist because he didn't fancy living under sharia law, then any European who doesn't fancy living under sharia law is a Fascist. If these people don't want to be their own definition of Nazis or Fascists, then when, and I say WHEN, not IF, Europe comes under serious Islamofascist attack, they will have to do what they endlessly condemn the Israelis for not doing-sit down quietly and let the Arabs walk in and slaughter them.

Penny

Well, Miranda, if Israel should ever be wiped off the map I think we'll just get double standards - again. It will be all their fault if the militants turn their eyes westwards. Like they aren't doing that now, anyway.

The extremists in Islam clearly state their aims and even if you think they're nuts, it's hard to deny that changes have occurred in the UK alone over the last decade. Just try flying out of the country if you're in any doubt.

There are far too many people who conveniently overlook the jihad in other countries; they prefer to think it's all Israel's fault and if they'd just go away, so would Abu Hamza et al. That's nonsense.
There is too much focus on what Israel does when this is going on in so many areas of the world.

Read Nonie Darwish - her father was a well-known Lt. General in Egypt and then in Gaza. She portrays the situation from the point of view of any Arab leader. She mentions Sadat and how he confided in a colleague that, in signing a peace treaty with Israel, he was
signing his own death warrant.

The latter part of your post echoes a recent podcast I heard.
The terms of war are re-defined now and the more militant nations have seen an interesting example of 'how to do it' in Gaza.

George Laird

Dear Adam B and jose garica

Do you have nothing better to do that complain about my writing?

You write what you what and I will write about what I want.

As to posting here why, should I go off topic talking about something unrelated?

Melanie gives her views on Israel and opens the piece up for discussion. I post a counter view because her views are a one trick pony. For her in my opinion there is only one side, Israeli.

If my writing upsets you then don't read, simple isn't?

Finally, where is your condemantion of Israeli tactics; I have condemned Hamas for firing rockets!

But then I am fair minded person not just some sheep.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Mr. Laird: Melanie has often criticized Israel.

phil

George Laird our own fault admitted but we have never asked you what is the human right at Glasgow university that you are campaigning for ? I think the world is entitled to this information and to know what course you are on if you are on one at all -particularly as there is no trace of you that I can find .The position of lollipop man is one to be admired but the invisible man can receive no applause -enlighten us.