Nuggets from Salem

Jenny

The Jeremy Bowen/Chris Gunness situation just beggars belief.

On and on it goes at the BBC. Richard Littlejohn pointed up the level of bias in the recent Binyam Mohamed interview conducted by the BBC:

'Disgracefully, the BBC agreed to his solicitor preventing him being asked about the terrorists' training camp he is said to have attended or why, when he was arrested in Pakistan, he was carrying a false passport.

'In which case, the interview should never have been broadcast. If Mohamed is allowed to make all kinds of serious allegations about our security services and our allies, we are entitled to know what the hell he was up to in the Afghan/ Pakistan badlands and why, if he was travelling legitimately, he was using forged documents.

'Sadly, in its enthusiasm to smear both MI5 and the Americans, the BBC abandoned any pretence of impartiality and investigative journalism.

'This wasn't an interview, it was a party political broadcast on behalf of al Qaeda.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1162520/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Share-pain-No-woman-doesnt-deserve-penny.html

Binyam Mohamed is a man who was travelling about on a false passport. How many people do you know who travel to Middle East countries on false passports? And if they did, would you believe a word they had to say about the American and British secret security services?

Not only is the BBC giving this man (and his lawayers) a platform over and over again to make allegations, the BBC then decide it's OK that this 'star witness' shouldn't undergo any cross-examination on the key reason as to why he was apprehended.

This is a state-funded broadcaster, for heaven's sake.

The normal job of a television broadcaster is to ask the question that is likely to be at the top of the minds of the viewers. If you have been a suspect jihadist, the viewer reasonably expects that you will be asked why you think the authorities were interested in you. And this man says, no thanks. I just want my say over the British security services.

It's a joke.

HarleyDavidson

Will someone, perhaps you Melaine, suggest Israel throw the BBC out of Israel. You have more power than the rest of us. The BBC is not a "news" organization. The BBC is merely the mouthpiece of the Muslim world masquerading as a western news company. At least Al Jazeera is honest in its propaganda for the benefit of Muslims.

In all honesty I don't understand how any Brits could listen to than piece of garbage.

W. H. Harris

THE only hope for Britain is that they get out of the U.N. and the Common Market, turn from its sinful ways and head in the other direction to hope, forgiveness and restitution. If England walks the wide way highway the end will be tragic.

There are too many ‘know-it-alls’ making profound statements about what diversity way England must go will only seal its fate in the eyes of Judgment from Above.

Dave

Mel if you don't let journalists in to report they will reply on other sources. That BBC report is still hedged with qualifications.
And the BBC remains the only British media organisation to update their story. So far your own paper, The Mail or indeed your husbands former paper, The Telegraph, have not.

g sheridan

It is time for all good englishmen and women to make australia your home and leave the little isle to its muslin invaders who you dont seem able to stop plundering your former great nation.

Ordnance

The BBC is a cancer eating at the heart of the UK - it is a corpse that is 30 years past its buriel date - it must not be allowed to live on at our, taxpayers, expense.

Ronnie

Dave, your comments seem far too tame, rational and sensible. Are you not joing the rest of us as we walk out of the U.N., the 'Common Market' (sic) and all the other international treaties that have so obviously diluted our pure blood lines?

Conservative Cabbie

"There’s the (now apparently ex-) CNN producer and Israeli Arab Nidal Rafa who, at a debate in Jerusalem between two members of the Israeli Knesset, started haranguing politician Danny Ayalon and calling him ’fascist, fascist’(even though in the past she has publicly called for Israel to cease to exist as a Jewish state);"

NRO has a story, and more importantly the video (http://tinyurl.com/dggbjf). What is particularly noticeable is the rational and reasonable way that Danny Ayalon deals with this harpy at the end of the video.

Stephen Rothbart

Although Melanie is often criticized for being too myopic on her views about Israel, its people like her and Tom Gross that keep us informed about the incredible anti-Israeli/Semitic becoming entrenched in Society around the world and typified by the latest BBC reporting.

So Dave is wrong to say the BBC should be let in to continue its obviously anti-Israeli broadcasting.

By taking such steps against the BBC from entering and reporting on Israeli matters, the whole world would see the reporting for what it is as a result of the storm.

Tom Gross's Mid East Dispatch is essential reading for anyone who wants to get a broad view of the way the world is heading in its reactions to both Israel and the Jewish populations of Europe, and has been endorsed by many leading and non-Jewish journalists, who are also appalled at the incredible double standards being applied to Israel.

Together these two do a great job getting the message around. But for their work to be meaningful, we need a Big Event, like Israel banning the BBC for deliberately inciting hatred. It's a crime in the UK. Someone should use the law to hit back at this polluted organization.

GaryO

I have zero trust in bbc news. I would watch it for a laugh, only it isn't funny anymore because innocent people's lives are at stake here.

bbc is a mouthpiece for islam. The stench of bias is writ large for anyone with a modicum of intelligence to see.

Ronnie

Actually, lets stop messing about. Its time to roll the 'Last Chance Transit Vehicle' out of its hanger at Biggin Hill and send those pre-selected pure-breeds off to the new colony on Mars.

simon

The only hope for us is that we go back into Gaza and we go in hard - no room for doubt. Yes, we have killed many of the rats and cockroaches who have turned their hatred on us, but we must persevere, and resolve to grit our teeth and go back and finish it off.

Original Tony

Jenny...very well said!

Sam Armstrong

g sheridan: "It is time for all good englishmen and women to make australia your home"

Hmmm... except that Oz is predicted to have a white MINORITY by mid-century. Australia is taking in migrants very fast these days.

We're all screwed Possum. Don't matter where u live.

phil

Jenny you are worrying unnecessarily.he was only attending a barmitzvah and needed a false passport because he did not have an invitation .The west should not be bothered about all the boys who just go out to the madrassas as it is only to learn how to cut beards and things like that ,not about how to kill us .why would you think that ?

Frank P

Ronnie; very droll, but you are conspicuously and, apparently proudly, 'not English' so your sarcasm is irrelevant to those that mourn the loss of Englishness in the 'Mother Country'. In other words you are part of the problem - as some of us have realised during your little sorties while trolling Melanie's blog. While others imply the loss of a benign culture, you infer the narrowness of nationality; the root of that is undoubtedly envy. Perhaps you might deign to declare your own nationality so that we could take a guess which form of envy or chagrin whence your own attitude emanates.

Jenny characteristically summarises the iniquity of the BBC and all who now use that facility for their propaganda. But then I remember when the youthful BBC was used for propaganda that helped the Allies win WW2 war. However, for the last 40 years the increasing batty Auntie Beeb been used by the Gramscian disciples to assist their victory in the culture war. Vicory? No, rout would be a better description. What goes around comes around, I suppose. Unfortunately far too many English subjects have been sleeping since the end of WW2, thinking that it was indeed the 'war to end all wars', even when several other significant conflicts should have woken them up to reality. And with their heads firmly buried in the sand, they have now 'assumed the position' necessary for Islamic jihad, aided and abetted by neo-Marxism, to have their way with them. Of course many of them will enjoy the buggering that will ensue; that's also part of the problem. Depravity has always preceded the fall of civilisations.

Penny

Even if you have negative views about Israel, the bias of the BBC should be of concern, surely?

What other information are we receiving that is biased?

Ben-Tsiyon (ha rishon)

Yes, HarleyDavidson, Israel should throw the BBC out for abusing its foreign press privileges by aiding and abetting the host nation's enemies !

As for Simon's "go back into Gaza....and finish it off", hear hear ! Israel has previously bowed to pressure from the bigoted 'international community' to terminate necessary action before completion. Let's hope that, with Netanyahu as PM, those days will be gone for good.

Original Tony

On the one hand I fret when I read about all this Islamification of Europe but when push comes to shove are the beer-swilling football louts in Liverpool, Leeds, Munich, Berlin, Barcelona and the rest of Euope going to lie down and be forced, by Sharia law, to give up sport, beer, swearing and women and are the women of Europe going to start wearing tents with visors and be banned from shopping, having to walk three feet behind their men; being banned from making or watching Coronation street and just lie back and take it?

Please, come on!

A point will come where our people, terrified of losing their decadent culture, will actually fight back, even if it's against Islamic soldiers patrolling the streets.

In the meantime, say 50 years, a lot of Muslims will have been converted to Western ways of thinking, even if it's on the inside only. The real threat actually, is Islam dying out, not the other way around. Science and consumerism is tearing Islam apart and eventually the hardcore will be swept aside by their own people.

Physical fisti-cuffs will be limited to civil unrest, acts of terror and war in the middle east. That's the way I see it.

Ronnie

Here's a newsflash Frank P, the issue, the single issue, that you keep pratting on about isn't only a problem for England.

We appear to be collectively easy meet in the English-speaking west because we lost confidence in our own culture. We can argue for a long time about how and why that has happened but the fact remains...

On that point I do not disagree with you. What disgusts me is you sitting in that smelly old chair, playing your broken record, mangling syntax, defaming anyone you please and thinking that you are somehow superior.

Oh, and that strange habit you have of thinking you are the Guardian of Melanie's blog. Like an old, one-eyed dog.

Original Tony

Ladies and gents, I joined this blog in December because I was attracted to the cetral topic of interest (Israel) and the apparent lack of personal attacks on each other by contributors as well as the omission of bad language.

That seems to have changed.Posters are now attacking each other rather than debating the topic at hand.

Can we please go back to standard debating without all the vitriol and share the various views we hold with a degree of mutual respect.

Vision Aforethought

As someone who has learned (alas, a bit late in life) how to judge character, while I am not keen to knock an individual by name, I can tell from just watching Mr. Bowen on television that he is a pathological liar, which means, he doesn't know it anymore. I once wrote to M directly after seeing him tell blatant porkies in a report from one of the Israeli borders last year sometime. You could tell he was insecure with his 'script' by his body language and eye movements. (I annoyingly could not recall the date and time of the broadcast.)

Isn't it rather serious that his lies and distortions of the truth could actually threaten the lives of many very good people on either sides?

This is all really about truth. Goddam it's so easy to lie, but so hard to prove something that's intangible or without credible witness.

Original Tony

Roseanne Barr is a complete nutter and should not be taken seriously at all. Just join her blog and read the c**p she preaches...it's beyond belief.

It reminds me of the fact that God will confuse Israel's enemies, to the point where they have no idea what they are doing.

Roseanne Barr must be one of the enemy's leaders!

Heidi Gloom

Ronnie – now now. Off you go - back to your deep dark dank cave under the rickety rackety bridge. Trip trap trip trap. Don’t get all mangled up in your own contempt on the way will you? On second thoughts silly me, you already are.

Nef

"Israel troops admit Gaza abuses

Israel frequently claims to possess the most moral army in the world
An Israeli military college has printed damning soldiers' accounts of the killing of civilians and vandalism during recent operations in Gaza.
One account tells of a sniper killing a mother and children at close range whom troops had told to leave their home.
Another speaker at the seminar described what he saw as the "cold blooded murder" of a Palestinian woman."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7952603.stm

Black-and-white evidence of war crimes committed by the IDF. Answer this, friends of Israel.

Laura

Calm down, Ronnie.

I know it must be difficult for you when you're losing to Frank P, but bringing his chair and record player into it aren't going to help you.

china doll

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5939611.ece

"The Israeli army has been forced to open an investigation into the conduct of its troops in Gaza after damning testimony from its own front line soldiers revealed the killing of civilians and rules of engagement so lax that one combatant said that they amounted on occasion to “cold-blooded murder”. "

and

"Another disturbing element reported by the soldiers was the role of military rabbis in distributing booklets that framed the fighting as a religious war. “All these articles had a clear message: we are the Jewish people, we have come to the land by miraculous means, and now we have to fight to remove the Gentiles who are getting in our way and preventing us from occupying the Holy Land… a great many soldiers had a feeling throughout this operation of a religious war,” said one soldier."

I look forward to hearing your comments. Presumably the soldiers quoted are all liars and anti semites too.

susie

China Doll - quite. And how is the urbane Mark Regev going to explain this away? Israeli spin doctors are even now toiling away to come up with some sanitised version/excuses that we shall doubtless be reading and hearing shortly, and seeing ad nauseam on blogs. The rhetoric of the rabbis, and the impression given this was a religious way against the goyim, sounds little different from jihad against the kuffar. By the way the latest edition of the BBC's (oops!) Crossing Continents has an interesting report on Israeli Arabs (ie Palestinians), taking as its lead a kind of Israeli Palestinian version of Goodness Gracious Me by novelist Sayed Kashua.

Penny

You left this bit out:

"Defence Minister Ehud Barak told Israel Radio that the findings would be examined seriously.

"I still say we have the most moral army in the world. Of course there may be exceptions but I have absolutely no doubt this will be inspected on a case-by-case basis," he said.

And that is exactly as it should be. If the investigation finds that acts contrary to the rules of war are committed then those responsible must be held accountable. That is my position on this matter.

It puzzles me that rather than be reassured by such transparency - a transparency that I don't know exists in other armies - you appear to be condemning Israel for it.

Are you naive enough to believe that no other army in the world gets it wrong sometimes, is judged before the facts are known and may not be quite so transparent? Or is it just Israel - again?

I have been fair enough to agree with Barak; will you be fair now and condemn Hamas for their clear disregard for their own people? For using children as human shields; for waging war in civilian areas and having no shelters, emergency or evacuation policies; for siting weapons in public buildings ensuring maxiumum loss of life; for warping children's minds not only about Israel, but about the West in general; for summary beatings, torture and execution for alleged Fatah supporters; for raiding West Bank;for sending representatives out to Sudan in support of Bashir, indicted on charges of genocide - oh the list goes on and on and yet somehow, I have never yet managed to get any anti-Israel protestor to comment on Hamas, despite their demands that I/we comment on Israel.

It isn't condemnation of Israel that creates notions of anti-semitism', it's these types of blatant double-standards.

I visit a few forums; wars, war crimes, abuses of human rights, genocide, torture - they go on all around the world and there isn't so much as a peep from anyone. Israel fights and suddenly there's an invasion of people who only show up for such occasions and who always have 'human rights' as their major concern.

Donna Gardier

China doll.

You must have heard of Chinese Whispers?

logdon

@ china doll and nef

Your refutation from biasedbbc blog. What's happened to our bedrock of innocent until proven guilty?

Using information from a BBC report to defend or refute the BBC's defamation of Israel is akin to Josef Fritzel acting as judge and jury in his own case. We all know what would have happened then so why bother using a perps defence, in this case the BBC, as gospel? It's not as if they don't have form. The shelling of the UNRWA school being one classic where the hokum of Hamas is believed hook, line and sinker without any journalistic diligence.

David Vance #

BURYING ISRAEL.
Well, it's just too good an opportunity to miss, isn't it? Israeli troops brutally murdering innocent Palestinians - hold the front page. The thing is that until an IDF investigation has concluded, this is mere anonymous speculation. If it is proven true, the IDF will deal with those found guilty. If it turns out to be as specious as much other media driven hostility towards Israel, then can we expect the BBC to report that with as much enthusiasm as they drool over this? Further, the BBC headline implies this abuse of peace-loving Gazans as a fact, it is nothing of the sort, it is an allegation.

Frank P

Laura

Heh, heh, heh! (He chuckles, winking with his one eye while at the same time fumigating his chair with Freshglow - just in case Ronnie comes to call). I note that he still, like his pal Obama, is shy about his origins. Only prepared to say what he is not, rather than where he was born.

As for me thinking I'm 'a Guardian' of this blog. I doubt Melanie would agree with him. You'll note he uses upper case for 'Guardian', which just might give us a clue about where his loyalties lie, or perhaps even hi religion - G for Guardian, G for Gramsci; substitutes for God, perhaps?

Then he mentions my 'syntax': well he could not possibly be at fault in that department - as an invigilator of others he must have meant the capital ‘G’.

Anyway, I thought syntax is what the Government intend to collect when they legalise brothels, wherein, I suspect, Ronnie works as a grease boy.

I'll plead "guilty" to being old, as that seems to be an offence in Ronnie's world. Luckily, I'm 75, so I can now watch Sky and Fox without paying batty Auntie Beeb an iniquitous tax. There's a blessing!

I enjoy all your posts Laura; not just the ones in which you take our Ronnie to task. :-) Thanks for your continued input. You and like minded supporters of M harden my resolve not to let Ronnie and his ilk drive me away (under the auspices of Gresham's Law).

Btw Ronnie - I assume you mean 'easy meat' rather than 'easy meet' in the second paragraph of your response. If I were to attempt to meat you halfway it could lead to a problem. As for superiority or inferiority... that's (as the saying goes) for others to judge. It is almost always subjective, anyway. Heh, heh … haaahahahaha!

china doll

Penny, we know what Hamas is. The question is what is Israel.

This transparency you talk of, I haven't seen anything but denial and whitewash until now.

But I am immensely gratified to see you, at least, acknowledge that these things a) might have taken place b) should be thoroughly investigated, and c) those in authority should be punished. This is a major step forward for this blog. It is a terrible indictment of Israel for its supporters a) to deny and b)to justify their actions by comparison with an organization they consider criminal. The implication is: they do it, why can't we? The correct answer should be, because you are better than that.

And in response to your suggestion that people only complain about Israeli human rights abuses - what planet are you on?

Wilf

A sterling post, Frank P.

And Ronnie, just answer the bloody question.

Ronnie

Frank P, yes you're right, meat.

Heidi and Laura, very entertaining.

Wilf, that will be the day.

EC

Frank P,

What's with Ronnie wanting everyone posting from perfumed perches? Has the government job created a Ministry of Pouffes and Soft Furnishings?

Can you get Freshglow in an aerosol? No, wait, put 'im daarn Guv!

It is very difficult to break wind whilst riding a motorcycle. If you mount the saddle from your old Triumph Saint in front of your PC you might not only save money but also the planet!

The wind is one of the few things this government hasn't taxed - except indirectly it has - in the highly visible form of useless wind turdbines subsidised for by taxes - monuments to gesture eco politics.

Gestures? Well, your's towards the Grauniadistas is a good one.

Penny

China Doll

Thank you for your reply.

You ask which planet I am on? Well, a planet upon which Israel appears to be a bit of a fashionable 'cause celebre' - which I find quite disturbing (if not a little sick)

There have been protest marches, sit-ins by students, calls for a boycott of Israeli academics, boycott of Israeli produce and well over 100 attacks on UK citizens. And of course, that's not a definitive list. I have questioned a few students and it is clear that actually, they know very, very little about the Israeli/Palestine conflict; they think they do but their responses prove exasperatingly ill-informed.

I notice no such actions in respect of the Congo, Sri Lanka, India/Kashmir, Somalia or Sudan - even though Al-Bashir has been indicted for genocide and has kicked out 13 aid agencies, leaving 200,000 sick people without medical help and with little or no water. Iraq has fallen off the radar and for sure, no voice was raised during the years that Hamas rockets fell on Sderot. There are other on-going conflicts that I haven't listed.

Despite the circumstances (especially in the Congo and Darfur)and the suffering, I haven't noticed any protest marches, sit-ins, boycotts, armies being called to account or people writing furiously about them on blogs. And there's certainly no Annie Lennox or George Galloway coming to their aid. We do get Bob Geldof highlighting the odd summit, and of course, Red Nose day, but it hardly compares to the activity in the last couple of months.

The only protest I can recall recently is against China which I tend to think happened mainly because the Olympic Torch was passing through London. A few days into the games and all went quiet.

I haven't been a contributor on Melanie's blog for long, so I have no idea to what extent you post - I just haven't noticed your name much. Some only appear when there's an opportunity to criticise Israel. Others talk of 'human rights', but when challenged appear disinterested or unable to comment on any other situation. Certainly, on the day Al-Bashir expelled the aid workers, no one on Melanie's blog who had shown such outrage against Israel bothered to respond to my post; yet the 200,000 people mentioned are a drop in the ocean of what is happening in Sudan.

You say:

"It is a terrible indictment of Israel for its supporters a) to deny and b)to justify their actions by comparison with an organization they consider criminal. The implication is: they do it, why can't we? The correct answer should be, because you are better than that."

First, China Doll, how many other armies around the world are called upon to account for themselves? And how many might be acting unethically, but are less than transparent? We will never know if the world appears to insist only on Israel being an open book. The requirement to be transparent should be applied across the board but I suspect many armies would refuse.

Secondly, Israel didn't behave like Hamas - Hamas has no regard for any human life; they view death in a very different way to the West. They don't just hate Israel, they hate you, too.

Finally, what would you have Israel do? Just sit back and allow rockets to fall for years; rockets which travel further and further into their towns and which may strike at their nuclear energy facility? They did that for years and offered a further ceasefire - Hamas didn't accept.

If any nation - be it terrorist or otherwise - strikes another nation should its government say 'We're better than that' and do nothing? How long do you think it would take for the world to become a very different place if this becomes the normal way of things?

I have said that if an investigation uncovers unethical practices amongst Israeli soldiers then this must be dealt with. Let's have the investigation first, though. Let's see others call on all armies to be transparent. And let's stop this unhealthy obsession with Israel; there are a great deal of human beings suffering in other places that desperately need this spotlight and the attention.

phil

Penny wise words as usual but sadly wasted on those that do not wish to hear them -I have friends who are otherwise sensible down the middle people but who "despise" Israel or as they say its only what they are doing .They get their information in sound bites or from the Independent/Guardian /BBC and make no attempt to study the history of this never ending conflict
-Israel suffers from the propaganda machine of the Arab world and the leaders of that world who care only for themselves and the retention of power which is kept by stoking up the Arab street with hatred of Jews .There is no common sense on that street ,just brainwashed uneducated people who know nothing of us ,other than what they are fed -Nothing new is occurring ,that same manipulation of the poor by those wealthy Arabs who live in palaces, be they in Paris /London /Rome or even Saudi,then comes the smart alecs like our self appointed laird who believes he is the new messiah come to save the world --

.They will never see that a tiny nation of people are trying to live in peace and have never seen one day of that ,having been constantly attacked and provoked .Do they have no right of self defence ?no need to answer that- NO is the obvious one to these fools like the laird and the manipulators with the beards .--

I think it helps our souls Penny to try to bring some enlightenment here but I think we fail ,the posters like the happily cruising blade do not want to know the truth ,they are cosy in their hatred as it raises them above the masses in their deluded mentality -I love to hear from you and Louise and my indefatigable friend Kate A.,TT and HD ,you all keep my spirit alive because you remind be that that the human spirit will never be defeated .May GOD bless you all for being the real people of this world

phil

apologies for missing out from my previous post Linda ,Adam B ,Stanley ,AA and beloved and the countless other souls who come here to do do good deeds even Frank P who when he is not being rude writes with sense :)-thank you all ,you sustain me .