The al Durah blood libel

Ashley C

Your insistence on refusing to let this story die down is to your great credit, Melanie. Keep up the fine work.

Richard Morgan

Brilliant post Melanie. It is high time that is the 'scandals' of Israel are brought to wither under the spotlight of reason. I only fear that our less than imparcial news organisations will only learn how not to get caught rather than a drive to report unbiased facts.

Richard Morgan

Brilliant post Melanie. It is high time that is the 'scandals' of Israel are brought to wither under the spotlight of reason. I only fear that our less than imparcial news organisations will only learn how not to get caught rather than a drive to report unbiased facts.

Meic Young

Regardless of who killed him, Al-Durrah is still likely dead and buried in the ground, which at 12, is a shocking tragedy. Maybe the two sides, and the various media who bend and twist things to suit their own ends, should concentrate less on who's misleading who and should worry more about the thousands more al-Durrahs who are being killed in the Middle East at this moment.

herb glatter

an autopsy would have determined how the boy died and at whose hands

CLIFTON rOTHMAN

IT IS CLEAR THE MEDIA HAS AN AGENDA TO INGRATIATE ITSELF TO THE ARABS. THAT WAY IT WILL BE WELCOMED AND BE ABLE TO REPORT FROM ARAB CONTROLED AREAS AND HAVE NO FEAR OF VIOLENCE BEING DIRECTED AGAINST IT BY ARAB GUNMEN IN THEIR LAWLWSS TERRORIST TERRITORIES. THEY HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR FROM ISRAEL BECAUSE IT IS A DEMOCRACY.

Michael Greenspan

Will the missing nine minutes ever be shown in court? If not, why not? Will anyone from France 2 be punished by the court for failing to provide all the original footage? Again, if not, why not?

Mark Azbel

It must be posted as a paid ad all over the world press. It is worth of any price.

Ian

Enough already! How can you say this atrocity was not real after the Jenin Massacre? Oh wait...

Ian

I do love the court's reaction. "What? Nine minutes are mysteriously missing. Oh, well. Nothing to worry about."

T J Olson

My late German history prof always regarded the treatment of Jews as the "canary in the coal mine" of civilization. Keep on keeping on, Melanie.

Wallace Edward Brand

Push for the missing nine minutes.

Wallace Edward Brand

The Israelis were not using bullets. They were using rubber batons. These do not come out of the barrel of a gun. They are larger than bullets, made of rubber, and are propelled by gases that come out of the gun through a device used to fire the rubber batons when the Israelis need a non-lethal weapon for crowd control.

Joe Friedman

Meic Young - We don't really know if the boy is dead! He may have not yet finished his 7 year laugh. At the time, the palis refused to show anything: an autopsy, a body, a bullet. What's shocking is that the world is so ready to blame Israel with such ridiculous overt lies.

David Krieger

When reason and emotion collide it augurs poorly for us all. When emotion is examined and analyzed by reason there is hope for justice. Ms. Phillips, my congratulations

Rob

Excellent reporting Melanie. Good stuff also at Richard Landes' place and at HonestReporting. Bloggers need to publicise this. I've done so at my site and will update. http://thebetterpartofvalour.wordpress.com/

Avi

The thing is, Meic and herb, that there was never a body nor hospital registration. I think that the "grave" was an old one that the name was changed. Why don't you want to ask the father a few questions?

Lee Jakeman

Herb Glatter - I believe there wasn't a body to do an autopsy on! It was whisked away and has since disappeared into the ether. Confirming, to my mind, that it WAS staged. If this kid had really died, we would have witnessed a funeral bigger than Diana's.

Edward Henning

I agree with the positive comments, but I would actually like to read the whole article, and not have part of it permanently obscured by an advert that refuses to go away.

Simon Boas

What were Israeli soldiers doing at Tapuah junction in the firt place? Thousands of innocent Palestinian children have been killed in the name of colonialism. It's not only morally wrong but a logical fallacy to use the disputed facts of one case to absolve - by implication - the countless crimes of the occupying army.

Dr Marcel Cohen

I have found this story fascinating and extremely disturbing. I fear that the fact the western media was prepared to be gullible is only a reflection of their readership. People want to read what they believe and they believe that Jews (disguised as Israelis) should not be afforded basic qualities of life but instead should remain the punchbag of society.

Gordon Ross

Despite the ongoing campaign for truth and justice by Melanie and others, nothing will come of this latest investigation. The evidence will be disregarded and the lies will continue to be propagated by Israel's enemies, not the least here in the UK. As for the present government in Israel, the sooner that bunch of weak-knees is replaced the better !

phil

melanie -the world relies on you to find the truth amongst so many lies -lies which help deny the path to peace -please do not flag ,we need you

Am Israel Chai!

To Meic Young - "...worry more about the thousands more al-Durrahs who are being killed in the Middle East at this moment". Sorry? Can you point out exactly who these 'thousands' of boys that are being kiled are? The only peole dying currently are the vicious and wicked terrorists that continually scheme against Israel. If you are reffering to the second Lebabnon war then civilians were killed because of vile and cowardly terrorists hiding themselves in civilian areas. I would suggest that in the future, you make every effort not to get caught up the hype and blatant lies against Israel and instead focus on the facts.

Mike

The undeniable fact is that Israel has no right, moral or legal, to continue to occupy the West Bank. What did Israel exspect to do with 1.5 million or so displaced people following the end of the 1967 war? This question has never been answered, and surely the majority of Israeli's regret the price their country has had to pay to satisfy the dream of a 'Greater Israel'. How many more innocent Israeli's, Palestinians, Lebanese, and Arabs throughout the Middle East, and elsewhere, have to die for the Zionist cause? Afterall they are only a small minority of the Jewish people at large.

Manny jakel

FINALLY I GET TO SEE HOW BEAUTIFUL YOU ARE, MELANIE. IT'S GOOD TO KNOW THAT THE AL DURAH IS ALL HORSE MANURE. NAME ME ONE THING PUT FORWARD BY THESE PEOPLE THAT ISN'T.

Evelinda Urman

Thank you for your honest reporting.

Bart

Mike said: 'The undeniable fact is that Israel has no right, moral or legal, to continue to occupy the West Bank.' So, when someone attacks you and you repel the invasion, you should retreat to your previously lightly defensible borders and await the next one? If I had a choice, based on your skewed morality, to be seen as honourable but dead, or dishonourable and alive, I would choose the latter.

Lynne T

Simon: Boy have the decades of propaganda ever done their work with you. Jews have been a continuing presence in Israel despite many waves of conquerors and oppressors, the most recent being the Ottomans. If the region's non-Jews are victims, their victomizers are the theocratic facists of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Ayatollah Khomeini's followers and the Wahhabis, all fighting for control over the Ummah and the dhimmis. Most Israeli "Arabs" would never relinquish their Israeli passports for life under the PA. Even the UN has reported that prior to the "Intifadas", the "Palestinians" on both sides of the Jordan had a higher per capita income and vastly better quality of life than the average Saudi or Iranian, all that petrowealt notwithstanding.

Lynne T

Mike: You seem unaware or to deliberabately omit a rather important fact: Israel offered the return of the West Bank etc. after the '67 war on the condition that it's right to exist in peace be recognized. Instead, they got the famous "Three nos" from Khartoum. As for control over Muslim holy sites, the Waqf has always had it and uses it to destroy Jewish antiquities while creating new monuments to their religion.

Luddite's Bane

Mike, As I understand the law as it relates to warfare, and land acquired by defense of one's own territory against an aggressor, it is clear that Israel may do whatever it likes with the West Bank, or nothing at all. They have no legal obligation to "return" the land to anyone, and the necessity of, and the unalienable right to, the defense of their recognized territory is beyond argument. It is not the responsibility of Israel to take care of the refugees, but they have attempted to do so throughout their legitimate occupation of the West Bank, providing food, water, infrastructure, medical aid, and access to a free press. The only authority keeping the refugees living in poverty within the territory are other Palestinians, and Arabs in other countries, who refuse to allow these people to emigrate, and preferring to keep them in squalor as a political tool. When will these abused people realize they've been duped, first by the Isrel's enemies, and again, for more than a generation, by those claiming to act in the greater interests of all Palestinians? I think Israel would be delighted to have a peaceful, economically productive neighbor state with whom they would have full relations built on trust. My personal view, after many discussions with Israelis, Palestinians, Jordanians, and Lebanese, is that many Palestinians, including those living in other countries, have more in common with Israel than they are willing or able to admit publicly. Israel is an economic success; if the Palestinian leadership were truly interested in the welfare of their charges they would develop much closer social and economic relationships with Israel, if only for reasons of pragmatism. One other point is that as long as they continue to trade their integrity and ethics for handouts from other countries they will not succeed as a people, whether or not Israel survives or is "swept into the sea." In the US, as in other countries, it has been in the interests of powerful people to keep others on the dole. It's addictive, like a drug, and nothing good comes of it for the users, only the suppliers.

Vladimir Val Cymbal

The Palestinians, Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah and other such groups have been caught in this type of subterfuge so many times it boggles the mind why any one at all gives their claims serious consideration.

These same groups are engaged in horrific atrocities daily yet no one seems to pay any attention. They shoot missiles at schools, bomb buses, markets, Mosques, Churches, Temples, weddings, and send their children to blow them selves up.

It seems the current political trend is to excuse, ignore, and some times support evil. There is a difference between ideologies of respect, tolerance, and a mind set that wants to kill any one with a different belief then theirs. Only the most ignorant or most evil can not see that.

Vladimir Val Cymbal

J. M. Busch

Interesting comments. I like the one that brings up the '67 war--while completely ignoring why these areas were "occupied" in the first place. And the one about the many dead Palestinian boys was rich as well. It is the Palestinians who are wrapping their children in suicide belts and indoctrinating them to die, unlike the Israelis who have seen their children die on buses, in pizza parlours, in their beds. No concern for those children? (Also ignored the fact that the Palestinians are killing each other faster than anyone else. It may be that no one wants to mention the obvious: it is the Muslims who are killing other Muslims on a scale that gives a lie to the blame game played by the Dhimmis.) Those who excuse any propaganda, while ignoring the facts, are not interested in truth, or justice, or even the Palestinian people. Cowardice, willful evasion and their hatred for Jews overrides any truth and is the premise for the "fake but accurate" nonsense that pervades the "news."

James Glenn

It has been incomprehensible to me from the start that the western media accepted news stories and pictures from an entity (the Palestinian Authority) or from within an entity which does not allow freedom of the press, and which threatens life if you do not print or televise what that entity wants published or televised.

Martyn

Unsurprisingly, the facts, when revealed, so often betray a remarkably different picture to the lies extolled by the anti-zionists. Excellent work Melanie, thank you for this article.

George Steiner

Who is the small minority dear boy? The 13 million Jews in the world or the 320 million Arabs. But why are the Brits so surprised? When an Arab spits in your eye, he will look up at the sky and say "it's raining".

Ahad Ha'amoratzim

Mike, you are mistaken. "What did Israel exspect to do with 1.5 million or so displaced people following the end of the 1967 war?" They were not displaced; they stayed right where they were. Israel offered to return the land to Jordan immediately in return for peace, even though Jordan had occupied the land illegally since 948. Jordan refused. Israel built them schools, universities, hospitals, and gave them jobs. Their standard of living, educational level and life expectancy rose and stayed high until the first intifada. "satisfy the dream of a 'Greater Israel'." The 1949 Armistice and UN Resolution 242 both contemplated adjustment to the 1949 Armistice Lines, which never had the status of recognized borders. Res. 242 clearly states that Israel is under no duty to give back any of the land captured in the 1967 war until there is a comprehensive peace agreement with internationally recognized borders. The Arab state and the PA continue to refuse any such settlement. "How many more innocent Israeli's, Palestinians, Lebanese, and Arabs throughout the Middle East, and elsewhere, have to die for the Zionist cause?" They are dying for the cause of those Arabs and Muslims who cannot live with the idea of a Jewish state nor the idea with Jews who are full fledged citizens. Some cannot live with the idea of there being Jews at all. "Afterall they are only a small minority of the Jewish people at large." No, the Jews of Israel are today a plurality; more Jews now live in Israel than live anywhere else in the world.

Ahad Ha'amoratzim

It is good to know that those who despise Israel equally despise truth and justice. How else to explain the comments that ignore the monstrous libel and perversion of justice simply because it is targetted at Israel? In their minds, Israel's supposed misdeeds -- or its very existence -- are so monstrous that Israel has forefeited any right to be treated truthfully or fairly. It is a short step from there to justifying the extermination of her people (r"l) and from there to the gang beating of Jewish girls or the stabbing of Jewish men on London buses -- all in the name of peace, humanity and decency. Carry, on Simon, Mike and others. Zionism is Racism! War is Peace! Ignorance is Truth! Or to be more accurate, certain popular "truths" about the evil Zionists are based on ignorance.

Lily

Sometime during 2002, a film clip was broadcast on television showing a funeral, Palestinian-style. They did not let the fact that no one was killed by the Israelis (as they claimed) cramp their style. A man was carried on a stretcher, very much alive and alert. Twice the 'body' fell off the stretcher, and twice the 'body' climbed back on. When it happened a third time, his impatience with the incompetent stretcher-bearers got the better of him and he stormed off. Does anyone know of a link to that clip? It would be appropriate to post it alongside the dura fairy-tale.

mark peters

Great job, Melanie. Keep up the great work. It's good to know your voice is reaching an even larger audience than before. Please do not falter nor give way to fear. Continue to shine the light of truth.

Mike

Ahiad Ha’amoratzim: You seem to imply that the Palestians refused peace immediately following the end of the 1967 war, but you seem to forget how different things were at that time from how they are to-day. Israel recognised the possibility of a settlement when the Palestinians still felt they had been liberated from the rule of King Hussein. They hoped for an independent state. But this initiative was lost because Israel turned to Hussein instead of inviting the Palestinians to come home to take over their rightful heritage. Something they had been unable to do under Ottoman rule, under British rule and under Jordanian rule. They wanted to establish their own National Home in Palestine alongside the Jews. Being mindful that it remains Israel’s responsibility to resolve the ‘Palestinian problem’, (not Jordan’s and not Egypt’s), the fact is that since 1967, the settlements represent the most decisive rejection of peace. No matter the much discussed interpretation of 242 and those that have followed, it is the actions of Israel that indicate its true lack of interest in a Palestinian State or indeed of any accommodation with the Palestinians. This is confirmed by the continued development of the settlements, the building of the grotesque wall and the inhuman way in which the IDF ‘police’ its check-points. Although the population of Israel is in excess of 7million, I have to maintain that the Zionist entity is a small minority within Israel itself, and of Jews living elsewhere. If you are a Zionist then I suggest you identify yourself as such, similarly so should dear Melanie Phillips, so that I, and my Jewish friends, and other readers will better understand who we are dealing with. Mike

R. Green

Great reporting, Melanie. Keep up the good work.

Michael B

"One child was pictured riding a bicycle through the melee. There was no evidence of any of them being killed or injured. From time to time, to be sure, youths were dragged onto stretchers and into ambulances – but there was no sign of anyone actually being shot, no-one falling under fire, no sign of any blood or injuries whatever." Nor the slightest evidence of conscience. Rather, and profoundly, to the contrary. Nihil ex nihilo; in more ways than one and from more venues and fora than one as well. Enderlin, his like-minded apathetic and complicit colleagues around the world as well, is a blight upon the conscience of the world. That is no exaggeration or hyperbole, it is a statement of fact.

truth serum

@Lily I believe the video about the funeral is the link below. I didn't have time to watch and verify, so forgive me if I got it wrong. It is still very interesting to watch regardless. I know I for one will never believe any of the video coming out of Palestine again...or Lebanon for that matter. They staged/acted out many scenes there as well. What bothers me most is that journalists and photographers have lost all sense of ethics. They are willing to allow themselves to be used for propaganda purposes because it suits their personal politcs or elevates them professionally by "getting the story" The money is not bad either, I'm sure. The truth is irelevant...and we are expected to play a part in their creative lies by providing oodles of sympathy for the poor children...victims of Israeli Zionist agression. I will never ever allow myself to be played again. http://seconddraft.org/streaming/pallywood.wmv

Gordon Ross

What the heck is Mike talking about in his response to Ahiad Ha'amoratzim ! He says "..it remains Israel's responsibility to resolve the 'Palestinian problem..', when it is really a matter for the "Palestinians" to resolve the 'Israeli problem'. Does he not know that the "Palestinians" do not and will not recognize that there is a Jewish people ! Just this week, in an interview with Israel Radio, Saeeb Erekat, chief negotiator for the "Palestine Liberation Organization", stated categorically that the "Palestinians" will not recognize Israel as a Jewish state. The fact that there is a Jewish people is the basis of Zionism, the movement for Jewish self-determination in our ancestral homeland. My non-Jewish contemporaries at grammar school back in the 1940s were well aware of this, since they were constantly urging us Jewish boys to go back there, where we came from ! Mike seems to imply that there are Zionists among us who, sinisterly, are reluctant to identify themselves as such. I obviously cannot speak for Ahiad, "dear Melanie Phillips" or anyone else, but here's one Zionist who is not the least reluctant to declare himself. I hope that this will help Mike, his "Jewish friends" and "other readers" to "better understand who (they) are dealing with.".

Huw Thornton

Wow, what a thread. I agree that if the event was staged, it is both a significant and shocking thing that it appeared in the French and then the world media as established fact. But why don't we wait for the appeal judgement before arguing about it? Or alternatively find out the facts in some other way?

Paul

Huw Thornton: "Or alternatively find out the facts in some other way?" Check out http://seconddraft.org, which has a lot of material that will help you make up your own mind, including film from the Reuters and AP cameramen who were just behind the Al Duras and unprotected by the barrel.

Jill Malter

Good job, Melanie! As Stephanie Gutman has said, the real villains of this whole affair were the media.

Mike

Gordon Ross, Lynne T and others. While awaiting news from Ahiad Ha'amoratzim to re-join this interesting, but controversial debate on the West Bank, I thought it may be useful to point out the following facts: 1. It is a myth that Egypt, Jordan, intended to destroy the State of Israel in 1967. Read on. "In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him" Menachem Begin. (Noam Chomsky, 'The Fateful Triangle') "I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to the The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it” (Yitzhak Rabin, Israel's Chief of Staff, in Le Monde 2/28/68) Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who as Defence Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan.....(said) many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland. They didn't even try to hide their greed for that land. We would send a tractor to plow some areas where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and we knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air-force also, and that's how it was. The Syrians on the 4th day of the war, were not a threat to us." (The New York Times, May 11, 1967) In Israeli Prime Minister Moshe Sharatt's personal diaries, there is an excerpt from May of 1955 in which he quotes Moshe Dayan as follows: "Israel must see the sword as the main, if not the only instrument with which to keep its morale high and to retain its moral tension. Towards the end it may, no - it must - invent dangers, and to do this it must adopt the method of provocation-and-revenge. And above all- let us hope for a new war with the Arab countries, so that we may finally get rid of our troubles and acquire our space" Nothing has changed through today. The lies, and self-deceiving nonsense that sustain Israel’s occupation are costing lives on both sides, but the solution to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict lies, for the most part, with Israel and the US. It depends on negotiating in good faith the return of Jerusalem to a true multi-faith city (Jew, Muslim and Christian), and the return of all the occupied lands to the rightful owners determined by the pre-June 1967 borders. The Zionist dream of a 'Greater Israel' must be laid to rest to enable negotiations in genuine good faith to be initiated. No longer must Israel approach the negotiating table with the idea from the start of making conditions which they know will be impossible for the opposite party to accept, and then have their 'spin machine' blame the other for the breakdown of the talks.

Michael B

"No longer must Israel approach the negotiating table with the idea from the start of making conditions which they know will be impossible for the opposite party to accept, and then have their 'spin machine' blame the other for the breakdown of the talks." Mike Firstly, your quotes from Dayan and others fail to place emphasis upon the "less than hospitable climate" within which those statements were made. Likewise (and why do people fail to ask themselves this question?), what Chomsky and other similar commentators fail to note are the far more excessive comments of others during that era. Some examples follow: "Our aim is the full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication of Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, November 18, 1965. "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight . . . The mining of Sharm el Sheikh is a confrontation with Israel. Adopting this measure obligates us to be ready to embark on a general war with Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, May 27, 1967. "We will not accept any ... coexistence with Israel. ... Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel .... The war with Israel is in effect since 1948." – Nasser, May 28, 1967. "The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear – to wipe Israel off the map. We shall, God willing, meet in Tel Aviv and Haifa." – President Abdel Rahman Aref of Iraq, May 31, 1967. All that is merely a very sparse sampling of what could be quoted and referenced. And as to "impossible conditions," are you referring to things like the right to exist? Or to the condition outlined by Palestinian and other Arabs that even the seemingly more conducive and reasonable "two-state solution" is one where Israel remains a state populated by both Arabs and Jews (primarily) whereas the foreseen Palestinian state is to be populated by Arabs only, absent any Jews whatsoever? Are those the "conditions" you're considering?

Michael B

And Mike, it's additionally telling that you're having to stray from the more specific and revealing subject of the thread, which is L'affaire Al-Durah and all it reflects upon the world's media. L'affaire Al-Durah is a type of "Watergate moment" and L'affaire Dreyfus combined - as such a type of prism through which the MSM's moral and intellectual atrophy is revealed, ranging from incurious and apathetic ne'r-do-wells and epigones on to media hegemons and the attendant monied class among media "elites." Indeed, in some critical respects Al-Durah reveals far more than Watergate ever did, for the former reflects a decidedly more critical problem and one that is far more pervasive and systemic, far more resistant to being "rooted out," and in fact is resistant to even being revealed for what it is, much less "rooted out." Those qualities were never truly a factor vis-a-vis Watergate.

Gordon Ross

Mike, I note that you completely ignore my comments on Saeeb Erekat's declaration that the "Palestinians" will not recognize Israel as a Jewish state. Seems you can't get round that one! As for the kibbutz residents' alleged "greed for that land", I suppose that the surrounding Arab states invaded the reborn Jewish state following May 14, 1948 solely in the interests of their Arab brothers in "Palestine"! No doubt that's why Jordan, that puppet the British created out of some 70% of the Jewish homeland (from which they barred Jews), so swiftly annexed what people like you now call "the West Bank" (including the old city of Jerusalem)and the British fell over themselves in their haste to recognize that annexation. Ironical that the Jordanians (who are now 90% "Palestinian")subsequently kicked Glubb pasha and the British officers out of the British-created Arab Legion. There's gratitude for you !

DavidS

the worst of all this seems to me that the pallywood offerings were aimed at a western media lusting for the slightest hint of an "atrocity" enabling the continuation of the fashionable pracice of the demonisation of Israel. The media frenzy that followed the "Jenin Massacre" surely inspired some Palestinians to stage manage material that they knew would be eagerly accepted without question and broadcast by hordes of western journalists. And those who come off worst in this disgusting blood libel affair are not the palestinians but the western press agencies themselves

Mike

Michael B. I agree that there was, and still is, a lot of misleading and unhelpful rhetoric by both sides, especially by President Nasser at that time. However, all I'm interested in is the truth, and that justice prevails. As you know there are volumes of information, instantly available, which was not the case only a few years ago. The web/internet has a lot to answer for! It's a pity that Bush and Blair didn't study the history of the Middle East before launching the most disastrous adventure in recent times. As the man said, 'There is only one thing we learn from history, and that is we don't learn from history'.

Mike

Gordon Ross. Forgive me for apparently ignoring the alleged statement of Saeb Erakat on Israel Radio, but there is so much on this thread that I disagree with that it's not possible, in my time available, to cover all in one post. However, coming to the point, I suggest you ponder on the following: 'Saeb Erakat, Chief Palestinian Negotiator, responding to remarks by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of Iran (BBC News Website) "Palestinians recognise the right of the state of Israel to exist and I reject his comments," he told the BBC News website. "What we need to be talking about is adding the state of Palestine to the map and not wiping Israel from the map," he said'. Elsewhere in your post - Do your really want to get into the 1948 situation in Palestine? All I will say is that the British have a lot to answer for but the true facts about early Palestine when Jews and Arabs lived happily side by side, and the tragic circumstances leading to the subsequent 'cleansing' of Palestinian towns and villages by Zionist forces, are easily available if one cares to look. Meanwhile, and if I may, I prefer to stay with the West Bank and Melanie's original blog.

Mike

Lynne T: Just to say that I found your reference to the Khartoum 'summit' and the 'Three noes' issue particularly interesting. I would like to return to this shortly assuming you are still interested in this on-going debate.

Charles Oren

You have already published letters that correct Mike’s distortions. I wonder whether Mike has been to Israel and how old he was in ‘67. The Golan Height is a plateau above Israel so that Israeli farmers cannot drive tractors up to the Syrian frontier. The Syrians had closed the Golan Heights to their civilians. Only the Syrian army was on the Golan. They used it for shooting down at Israel. Sadat ordered U Thant to remove UN forces from Sinai in May ‘67. He then moved his army up to the Israeli border and closed the Straights of Tiran to blockade Eilat. He boasted that he had far more weapons than in ’56 or ’48 and that this time Egypt would destroy Israel. The “logical” outcome of that war was so clear that by June 3 foreign reporters had left Israel to write Israel’s obituary in the safety and comfort of their home offices.

Ahad Ha'amoratzim

I am sorry to disappoint Mike by not posting on Shabbos. In the interim, Gordon, David, Michael B and others have answered his distortions of history far better than I could. I was in high school during the 1967 war and followed what the Arab states were saying at the time; was Mike? Mike also claims that in 1967, the Palestinians simply wanted independence from Jordan. The governing documents of the PLO and the Palestinain Authority say the opposite. The Palestinian National Covenant says that Israel must be abolished, and that the lands that Jordan and Egypt occupied during the 1948 war are not Palestine, but rather are part of Jordan and Egypt,respectively. Israel is to be abolished and replaced with a Palestinian state. The Jews are not a national group and are not entitled to a state. The PLO promised at Oslo to amend its charter to remove those provisions. They have never done so.

Ahad Ha'amoratzim

Reports today say that Hamas has now arrested Al Dura's father, but do not say why. Does anyone have more information on this?

R. Jones

My wife and I were in Kibbutz Ein Gev in 1967 on the eastern bank of the Sea of Galilee underneath the Golan Heights.
Through binoculars we could just make out the guns on the Syrian tanks at the top as the Golan Heights high above, and they were a constant presence above us. Occasionally they fired on the next kibbutz, - Ha’on. In May Ein Gev was shelled by Syrian tanks and I came pretty close to being killed. There are often reports about who is arming who. Here’s a slightly different twist. When later we looked into the shell craters, there, plain to see on the pieces of jagged shrapnel were the words ‘Made in England.’

Bob M

I doubt that anyone will ever see Mohammad al Durah alive. If he did survive this staged attack, it would not be prudent for him to ever reappear. I do not think the terrorist would have second thoughts about killing him.

Mike

For Charles Oren and all defenders of 'Israel Right or Wrong' wherever they come from. I've already dealt with Gordon Ross and his slur about Saeb Erakat, now I suggest he and others who choose distortions rather than the truth take a look at the following URL where you will find Parts 1 and 2 of the recollections of a UN Observer prior to the 6-Day war. http://peoplesgeography.com/2007/06/09/the-six-day-war-deceptions-dutch-videos/ I was working in my London office at the end of that war, and recall vividly going along the corridor with others to heartily congratulate a Jewish colleague on Israel's impressive victory. Four years later I was in my office in Beirut listening to my Palestinian Sales Manager talking about what happened to he and his family in 1948. Over the next 7 years, and the horrors of the 1974 Lebanon Civil War, I regularly visited the countries of the ME from Libya to Tehran and talked with very many Muslims, Jews and Christians about their situation vis-a-vis the policies of the State of Israel and especially its disproportionate influence on the foreign policy of the USA. However, it's a huge subject, takes up far too much of my time, therefore when you've witnessed the aforementioned videos I think I should rest my case, at least on the Golan.

Michael B

Mike, you, as with your snippet of a video on the Golan area, amounts to a gnat's view of things as he's crawling around on an elephant. The selectivity in that video is perhaps no better exemplified than in the brief play given to Michael Oren, regarded as one of the best historians of the conflict and noted as such in that very video. The only time they give to Oren however - and this reflects the highly edited quality of the video in general - is when Oren is quoted as saying King Hussein of Jordan did not want the Six Day War. That's true enough, but Hussein was not of a piece with Nasser and others as regards that desire, as my earlier quotes of Nasser confirm. Likewise, here's Oren in a very recent article, referring in part to masses of recently release official documents: "Confronted with a harsh economic blockade, military pacts between heavily armed neighbors for the express purpose of aggression against Israel and hundreds of thousands of enemy troops actually massed on its borders, it would have been the height of irresponsibility for Israel's government not to plan for pre-emptive action. The picture that emerges is one of a country and leadership deeply fearful of military confrontation, and desperate to avoid one at almost any price." Here's Oren on those recently released documents and the battle instituted by the new historians, essentially a collection of historians, journos and other writers who have engaged in highly selective readings of primary documents: "These documents — tendentiously read and selectively cited — have been marshaled to substantiate the most radical of revisionist theories about the 1948 War of Independence and the 1956 Sinai Campaign. With the 40th anniversary of the Six-Day War now upon us, the same methodology is again about to be applied to smashing the "myths" of 1967." In sum though, read Oren's "Six Days of War" and google "michael oren" together with "67" and "war" and your eyes just might be opened enough that you don't simply repeat the propaganda and tendentious arguments of the new historians and likeminded advocates. Then google "new historians" to review some of their motives and intents. One of the primary battles is on the ideologocal front, including historiographic interpretations by those new historians and their allies in various media. Absent a knowledge of those battle lines, people will not be well informed.

Mike

Michael B: Thank you for your thoughtful post on 'New Historians' and 'Michael Oren'. I'm a 'new guy on the block' to the Spec blogs but not new to the views of Melanie who makes so much sense on most subjects, but loses me with her support of Israel 'Right or Wrong'. To help me get my mind around the ideological battle between those Israeli's and other Jewish writers who are alleged to be 're-writing history', and the Zionist view of the world with which I profoundly disagree. I would ask you to better understand where I'm coming from by taking a look at http://www.ijv.org.uk/. Are these immensely respected and qualified Jewish individuals to be believed or not? Would you also kindly view http://www.peacemideast.org/ and http://www.wrmea.com/jews_for_justice/

Gary

Ahad here's a link to the story of the arrest of Mohammed Al Dura's father; http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1195127527932

Ann Jensen

There was no 'Jenin massacre'. That is another blood libel disseminated by antisemites. The black day on which the 'Jenin massacre' was 'debated' in the House of Commons by screeching antisemites frothing at the mouth, was the beginning of the end of British parliamentary democracy.

Isaac Szobel

To the usual suspects with their standard hysterical comments about "the policies of the State of Israel and especially its disproportionate influence on the foreign policy of the USA": you were in London in 1967. I was in Jerusalem before the 1967 war, during its beginning, middle and end, and after it. The distortions in the so-called 'Western press', 95% of which is viciously prejudiced against Israel out of ignorance, desire to curry favour with the Arab or Muslim world, or plain antisemitism (and we know which British daily paper is noted for the latter, don't we, boys and girls?), are plain as a pikestaff to anyone who actually has first-hand knowledge of Israel's history. Keep up the good work, Melanie: this country needs more honest and knowledgeable people like you.

JAZ

I always wondered why Israel used Rubber Bullets and other less-than-lethal crowd control. No other countries in the region do and they never have any bad press afterward. Maybe if libelous French journalists were shot on site like they should be, this libelous "media" would stop.

George J Cohen

thank you, Monique. I'd previously read criticism of the inaccuracy and lies in this case

Hnery Balfour

....and all I can remember while shovelling through this piece of Phillips' over-articulate confection is the similarity to US and Israeli denial and disinformation surrounding the murderous attack on the defenseless USS Liberty. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.