Yet more of the same old, same old

stanley Jerusalem

Written 2000 years ago
הלכה לעולם עשו שונא את יעקב.
Esau hates Jacob in perpetuum.
Or as the murdering Romans/Muslims/Crusaders/Inquisition/Cossacks/Russians/Nazis/PLO/Hezbullah/Hamas would have said " mutatis mutandis." [Just the Romans.]

Omar

The mistreatment of christians and other non-muslim minorities in muslim lands is so predictable and universal, one would think it would merit some consideration when forming policies and judgments. The silence is so bizaar and inexplicable it's almost funny.

Michael Booth

The Anglican Declaration is despicable. I am an Anglican and am ashamed of my church.

Terry

Like many other institutions these days, those at the top purport to speak for ordinary rank and file people and completely get it wrong. Sorry Melanie and Israel, on behalf of the ordinary evangelical and other church members like me.

Drakken

Time for the rank and file Anglicans to go back to their roots, being Catholics and tell the dimmni bishops to go pound sand.

hadrian

As a Calvinist I agree wholehearted with every word of this, Mel.
It is scarcely surprising that the CofE in general ( give or take a minority on its Reformed wing) should pursue this shallow claptrap. They are, in effect, dyed-in-the-wool multiculturalist, fifth columnists who have entirely forgotten the very First Commandment which is such a scandal to them.Heaven forbid they should offend a Moslem with the Gospel or defend fellow Christians under Moslem oppression or understand the pressures on a nation threatened by Moslem animosity. The Pope's just as bad. His waffle this week helps nobody- not even the Roman Church!

Dooley

No surprise here, nor that many evangelicals seem largelt unconcerned about the borderline antisemitism of one of the most prominent Anglican anti-Zionists

http://largebluefootballs.blogspot.com/2009/05/see-no-evil-part-ii-israel-anti-zionism.html

London Calling

I am having great difficulty looking through your eyes Melanie. I read the resolution put forward by the The Anglican Consultative Council, the core of which is to promote unity and peace and a way forward and I cannot understand how this collates with your view of scapegoating, defamation and demonisation towards Isreal?

The rhetoric that you continue to parcel 'The Palestinians and their persistent attempts to murder as many Israelis as possible' and further snippets of stories added does not reflect the whole or the truth.

Of course it is a complex matter and much needs to be discussed, but a united force is stronger than an isolated one.

There is a vibrant young community within Gaza, the west bank and Israel and they are playing a different tune to the one you are portraying here as "The The's" The Palestinians, The Israelis, and The Christians, and they express themselves through music, poetry and art, and not bombs, with the test of true faith and the hope that their voices will be heard.

I hear them…and they will be heard.

London Calling

Same Old, Same Old?

Hello Global Community. Glad you made it back in time:)

African tribe populated rest of the world

The earliest homo sapien remains found outside of Africa were discovered in Israel and are thought to be around 100,000 years old. They are remains of a group that left Africa through what is now the Sahara desert during a brief period when the climate grew wetter, turning the desert green with vegetation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/5299351/African-tribe-populated-rest-of-the-world.html

Same Old?...

All together now...:O :) :Z

dmgold

The Anglican Church Heirachy resembles that of the European Union. It represents the ideological bent of a few elitist leaders, but ignores the needs and minds of the minions. The Anglican Church is in a sad state of decline and with pie in the sky leaders like these, it has little hope other than to submit and become a part of Islam.

EscapeVelocity

Cowards!

Michael B

The ganglion of au courant Anglicanism.

Most typically and not coincidentally, and with infrequent historical exceptions, the Christian church can be responsibly conceived as a remnant faith, in terms of basic faithfulness throughout hierarchies and the ranks; the world and the heart beckon and seduce, one, by one. To be faithful is, eo ipso, to be free; yet other options present themselves.

Presently there is no better and more general an indicator of this than the wouldbe "liberal," popular and media-reinforced interests and programs in establishment churches and elsewhere, to meet the ever demanding task of being au courant. But that is an ancient and clouded and obscured lesson, echoing back to the land of Ur as viewed in the rear-view mirror and we, daring and brave and fearful and proud, and knowing, are above such trifles.

And stanley, you forgot to mention a certain faction of the 20th century, along with their myriads of hecatombs.

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Ms. Phillips: This is so the same old, same old, and so mild compared to some of the anti-Israel vitriol that gets spewed, that I'm surprised you bother to call attention to it.

Edward Benson

Is the headline intentionally ironic?

Original Tony

Christians need to be reminded that Jesus was a Jew and any thought of condemnation of Israel (read the Jews) should be anathema to them.

I therefore wonder if the Anglican church is filled with the spirit of Christ or politicians?

GaryO

On how many fronts is the wars of bullets, rockets, propaganda, mis-information, threats of boycotts, hostile media and down right lies is Israel fighting? I doubt any country of comparable size and population receives such a torrent of abuse on daily basis. My heart goes out for the majority of Israelis who want to live in peace and harmony.

stanley Jerusalem

Perhaps it's time to remind ourselves that the Anglican Church was founded by a despot in order to justify dissolving his marriage, not that he succeeded with his subsequent endeavours in that direction. He was even responsible for bringing the very first printed Talmud to England that the Archepiscopal head of his new 'religion' could find him a suitable escape clause. The Bomberg Talmud remains in London to this day but now resides in Golders Green[where else?].
On such lamentable foundations, the Church of England was founded and has never achieved the success of its Roman 'brethren. 'Missionaries were despatched in the 19th and 20th Centuries to spread the Word and convert pagans, cannibals and others who had survived for aeons with their own versions of who or what God was.Instead of shotgun diplomacy they employed medicine religion. You convert and we'll heal your sick. Nice!
Now they face death by apathy and their Heads appear to embrace the approach of Islam.
The early Fathers of the Church converted Pagan Solstice Festivals to notable Christian Holydays to provide a smooth change-over. Perhaps we are witnessing a latterday smooth change-over.
After all, they could hardly change back to their own God's religion, could they?
Anything but that.

Michael B
May 13th, 2009 7:01am
Which one?[not that there aren't enough, already!

Diana (from Australia)

The Anglican Church (liberals, evangelicals, Anglo Catholics) has adopted such a left wing political and social agenda (with its concomitant hatred of Israel) in a pathetic attempt to remain relevant to the modern world. It has a horror of being associated with those nasty George Bush redneck Christian Zionist types who cause so much embarrassment to "respectable" and sophisticated Christians "like ua".

As far as I am concerned the Anglican Church, having totally lost the plot and having ceased to display anything that remotely resembles the apostolic faith, can keep on going down the plughole where it probably belongs. Is it any coincidence that the increase in Israel bashing is happening at the same time as a general weakening of Anglican doctrine and practice?

Original Tony

Diana (Australia) 1:11pm....I could not have said it better myself!

Ioad Bell

I returned to the Anglican Church in my early thirties following a fifteen-year sabbatical and found it to be an utter shambles. I don't remember it being like that when I was a young man, but perhaps it was ever so, and only to my callow ears did it seem vital and coherent. Either way, I quit it again and for good. The Anglican Church does not front a religion; it does not seem to recognise God at all! Instead, it seems a collective exercise in mealy-mouthed self-loathing and apologetic hand-wringing. It's like a dramatic interpretation of yesterday's Independent, but without the spirit, if you can imagine such a thing. It is almost entirely secular in its outlook; so whilst nothing good can ever come out of this world, neither does anyone seem to be able to imagine any another one. The devil is among us: yes! But he is industry, commerce, politics, and the Church: he is Western Culture, or so they seem to believe.
Shortly before I quit, there was a bizarre sermon delivered by the vicar, at Evensong, where (in the most obscure way imaginable - such that no words gave specific reference to the topic of his discourse) he attacked anyone who criticised the modern liberal view on homosexuality. I am certain that he meant the Anglican Church in Africa, but I couldn't be sure, because, of course, to criticise Africans would be a certain heresy. Then, another, equally bizarre sermon was delivered by a visiting cleric who told the congregation a story about how he had been on a train and had taken the trouble to smile at a young woman who was wearing a hijab, just to show that although he was wearing a dog-collar, he was by no means an Islamophobe. He seemed rather proud of this, but I can't see why, nor would I suppose this young woman would have rejoiced at his rather freaky attentions. Naturally, we were all entreated to engage in like ritual gurning exercises. Then he suggested that the Abbey where I attended should be thrown open so that Muslims and Christians could worship alongside each other. The fact that these two religions are, in essence, diametrically opposed seems to have had no concern to the man.
Anyway, it was around this point that I realised that this Anglican Church, being estranged from God, has taken the line, 'We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs from under Your table" and has begun to apply it quite indiscriminately, and that Christianity, being so thoroughly impoverished of wisdom, blind to God, antipathetic to tradition, and apathetic in relation to its own survival has become just a secular cult of some Jesus, meek and mild. And in recognising this, I saw that it had nothing for me.

Peter Burman

Maybe the Anglicans who support Israel should break away from those in the Church who do not.

phil

" 6. calls on Israel to
1. end its occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip
2. freeze immediately all settlement building with the intention to abandon its settlement policy in preparation for a Palestinian state
3. remove the separation barrier (wall) where it violates Palestinian land beyond the Green Line
4. end home demolitions, and
5. close checkpoints in the Palestinian territories
7. recognising that the city of Jerusalem is holy to Christianity, Islam and Judaism and is not therefore the monopoly of any one religion, upholds the view that members of all three faith groups should have free access to their holy sites.
8. calls on all people of faith and good will to pray and work for peace so that justice and reconciliation may be achieved for all the people of Palestine and Israel.------------Would it be unfair to ask whether there is any call for an end to the rockets or even the suicide attacks ,maybe even a declaration by hamas /hesbollah that they will recognise the right to exist -I would hazard a guess that these people from ivory towers represent very little of the views of their flock and manage only to ensure a further descent into distrust.

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Margaret Muller-Johansson

The posh people in the church, the posh politician, the posh judges and lawyers, the posh doctors, the posh artists the people who run for the western world are so i don't know how to say, they don't care about protecting their people, they don't understand they never suffer before, they never seen hard life and struggle they don't understand reality, now people like me know this because we are not sleep walking, their believes are political correctness, they have to hide the true because that is the only thing they can do, hiding so they don't upset the terrorists, the posh people in the west specially in Britain like the Archbishop of Countrbury I can't even say his name right don't care about their country or their religion because they are so cool!!!!

phil

Margaret J you are so right ,these people do not live either in Gaza or Sderot nor even Jerusalem ,they have no need of the protection of the wall from terrorists who do not come for tea and cakes ,but to kill them .I believe they mean well but have no knowledge of the real world and particularly of both beleaguered peoples ,they continually interfere to the consternation of all-perhaps they should be praying for guidance as to how they can SHUTUP.

ahad ha'amoratsim

Phil, "7. recognising that the city of Jerusalem is holy to Christianity, Islam and Judaism and is not therefore the monopoly of any one religion, upholds the view that members of all three faith groups should have free access to their holy sites" would be funny if it weren't so sad. When Christians controlled Jerusalem, Jewish holy sites were kept in a deliberate state of neglect, and Jews were not allowed to repair them. (In pre-Ottoman Christian times, things were of course even worse.) The UN voted in 1947 to make Jerusalem an international city, but did nothing to break the illegal Jordanian blockade that began shortly after the vote, even though the blockade kept Jews away from Jewish holy sites. Jordan captured Jewish east Jerusalem in 1948, expelled Jews whose families had lived there for centuries, barred all Jews from visiting, and vandalized numerous Jewish holy sites. Christians were not allowed to visit Christian holy sites if travelling on a passport that had been stamped by (let alone issued by) Israel. Not a peep from the Anglicans, the Vatican, or anyone else.

Then in 1967, Israel retakes Jerusalem from Jordan in a defensive war that Israel had begged Jordan to stay out of. Jewish holy sites are restored, Christian and Muslim holy sites are scrupulouysly safeguarded, and for the first time in hundreds of years the holy sites of all three religions are open to all. (Yes, Jewish sites were open during the Mandate, but Britain dictated what could be done there; e.g. Britain would arrest any Jew who blew a Shofar at the kotel at the end of Yom Kippur, even though blowing the Shofar then is part of the service.) And then, when the holy sites were in Jewish hands but open to all, and only then, did Christendom suddenly start voicing concern about "not making Jerusalem "the monopoly of any one religion" and ensuring that "members of all three faith groups should have free access to their holy sites."

Not until Jerusalem was in Jewish hands did all three groups have free access, and anyone who starts bleating about access makes me wonder if his real objection is not lack of access -- since access there is -- but rather the fact that the sites are under the control of Jews.

Bill M

Ioad Bell @ May 13th, 2009 5:05pm

That was truly excellent! Brilliant, brother.

phil

ahad ha'amoratsim the problem with the truth is that when we tell it they disapear .I srael needs not only to be right but to be mighty as these do gooders will never be there were Israel to need help

Troubled

I wonder how much of the poisoning of the Anglican Church and the other church denominations who are equally guilty, can be laid at the door of 'Christian' Aid which never misses and opportunity to denigrate and misrepresent Israel to all its supporters