A British military expert tells truth to prejudice

Alex Bensky

It is not hard to understand the cries that Operation Cast Lead was a "disproportionate" response when you understand the special terminology of the Middle East. When it comes to Israel, "disproportionate" is a synonym for "effective."

Curiously, when Israel hands over hundreds of convicted and self-admitted terrorists to secure the remains of two kidnapped and murdered soldiers, no one sees this as disproportionate. I wonder why.

Paul

Good to see a Briton delivering this support in Israel.

Well, of course rational people will agree with everything the Colonel said. However, when you hate yourself, your own country and the Jew, then of course you will disagree.

What can one do but continue to fight the fight.

Paul Freeman

Thank you, Melanie, for bringing Colonel Kemp's speech to a wider public.

Those who listen to it and continue to accuse Israel of "disproportionality" over Cast Lead should read the article by Kim Sengupta in The Independent, 16 April 2009. Entitled "Iraq air raids hit mostly women and children", this piece puts Palestinian civilian casualty figures into context.

Here's a quote:

"Analysis carried out for the research group Iraq Body Count (IBC) found that 39 per cent of those killed in air raids by the US-led coalition were children and 46 per cent were women. Fatalities caused by mortars, used by American and Iraqi government forces as well as insurgents, were 42 per cent children and 44 per cent women."

I wonder, has any of your readers even heard the suggestion that Israel inflicted casualty figures on Palestinian women and children in the order of 85%?

Terry, Eilat - Israel

Few will pay any attention to an honest evaluation of any Israeli military operation. The media, the NGO's, the politicians, will just keep babbling their standard stereotyped biased lies & distorions as usual. The looney-left is impervious to facts, evidence, rational analysis.
Sorry to be such a pessimist.

sarah

What a thoroughly nice man. He says much that is good about Israel and justifies the actions of our government and a look at google shows he has many times supported us over the years.

Augustus

Thanks to the Obama administration's ignorant new strategy regarding the Middle East, Hamas is gradually turning the Gaza Strip into a Taliban-style Islamic entity, destined to pose an ever-increasing threat, both to Israel and the West. Hamas feels
confident to do whatever it wants in Gaza because Obama and his allies in Europe are too busy arguing with the Israeli Prime Minister whether settlers should be permitted to build new homes or not. And the PA also appears to be happy with the West's obsession with the settlements.

The Americans and Europeans may be fighting tooth and nail against the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but they ignore completely the obstacle to peace that Hamastan will soon become as a major threat to stability in the region. The Palestinians optimisim is based on the hope that Obama will force Israel to withdraw to the 1967 borders, including East Jerusalem, and expel all the Jewish settlers from the West Bank. These Palestinians probably think that Israel will eventually succumb to Obama's pro-Muslim demands, and so, why should they grace the negotiating table with Israel when Obama has already endorsed their position and is, therefore, effectively negotiating with the Israeli government on the Palestinians behalf.

Michael B

War is heck and war is chaos, with an attempt to bring it in more, rather than less manageable jurisdictions. That chaos is exploited for all it's worth by the media's useful fools and by those - such as Hamas, Hezbollah and their sponsors Iran and Syria - who have become highly proficient in exploting these media based useful fools. To quote directly from Col. Kemp in his original BBC interview:

"Hamas ... has been trained extensively by Iran and by Hezbollah to fight among the people, to use the civilian population in Gaza as a human shield ... and Hamas factors in the use of the civilian population as a major part of their defensive plan ..."

The BBC's interviewer, directly after this statement, attempted to redirect the exchange back to the BBC's group-think and narrative - in lieu of exploring Kemp's statement with more probative depth. So much for "objective" reporting by the BBC. Hence the exchange served as a microcosm, a single instance only, of the all too apt "diamond on a dunghill" metaphor.

It is via these now hackneyed and all too predictable narratives - little more than highly embellished and oft-repeated bedtime stories - that probative depth and more genuine forms of objectivity are systematically avoided.

John Birch

Augustus: Was Obama in charge when Israel went into Gaza to deal with Hamas in December?

Jeremy

A model of clarity - both of thought and of exposition.

Thank you for bringing it to our attention, Melanie.

I thought your final paragraph was very good, too.

John Edwards

As I have pointed out before "Colonel Richard Kemp" is not some independent military expert. I was surprised that the BBC were taken in. He now runs a private security operation in London and has close links with the Conservative Party.

Also his links with the Israeli military are long standing. Indeed there can be no doubt which side he supports in the Israel\Palestine conflict.

I note that the "conference" at which he delivered his speech was organised by a propoganda organisation called the Jerusalem Centre for Public Affairs headed by Dore Gold, hardly a reputable body with regard to strategic affairs and meaningful discussions of international law. I also note Kemp was the only non-Israeli speaker.

As regards the war crimes in Gaza - ask yourself this question why is Israel refusing to co-operate with the UN investigation?

Adam B.

John Edwards attacks Kemp through association (perhaps he's a Conservative, shock horror, or tainted by those Jews), rather than with any substance. And as for his question about the UN, does he believe that the UN is impartial in these matters? The UN which has never uttered a single criticism of Communist China and its brutal occupation of Tibet? Is that the UN over half of whose members are despotic regimes who make a habit of scapegoating Israel to avoid criticism of themselves?

Why not address the substance of Col Kemp's insightful speech?

Mjolnir de Jersiase

John Edwards said:"why is Israel refusing to co-operate with the UN investigation?"

That's easy: Because the UN is dominated by the anti-Jewish secular liberal-left, on one hand, and the anti-Jewish Islamic bloc on the other.

David

John Edwards asks "As regards the war crimes in Gaza - ask yourself this question why is Israel refusing to co-operate with the UN investigation?"

That question is not new either in and of itself, nor in its implication of Israel's guilt.

The answer is that Israel believes bias in the UN investigation to be inevitable. Therefore, its participation in that investigation simply serves to sanction the bias which it considers to be a foregone conclusion.

If you believe the UN's treatment of Israel to be unbiased and objective then you'll condemn Israel's choice, of not becoming involved in the UN investigation, as a 'cover-up'. If, on the other hand, you believe that the UN is deeply biased and flawed, then you'll understand immediately why Israel opted not to participate.

There is a lot of research and writing about to help you decide on how objective the UN is.

Bruce Lewis

Melanie, you just don't get it, do you?
Nobody in his right mind is blaming the gallant and brave men and women of the IDF for following orders of their leaders, any more than one is blaming most of the American and British soldiers in Afghanistan or Iraq. One is blaming the JUSTICE of the policy which isolates and embargoes a whole people while at the same time continuing to confiscate their land on illegally occupied territory.

The problem is with the politicians--not the combatants--on both sides.

Paul

At last some common sense is reported.Look at history. Every time the two state solution has been put forward ie Peel Commission 1937, UN 1947 and Camp David 2000 the Palestinians have baulked. Clinton and the Saudis in 2000 were dumfounded that Arafat went straight to intifada after such a ground breaking deal, he never even came back with a counter proposal.
The Palestinians are not interested in the construction of Palestine they just want the destruction of Israel. Thats the truth of the matter. Both sides have rights there but one, ie the Palestinians, just cannot bring itself to admit that the other has the right to exist. Their own people are just pawns and cannon fodder in this terrible game.

GeoffM

A statement of the obvious but perhaps a waste of time.

What you have reported we knew anyway.

Will any liberal be swayed by it - no.

Liberals have a fixed mindset and the West and Israel will always be the bad guys. Their minds are closed and they will not let mere facts get in the way.

I will always remember when I became a Director for an International aid charity.

One evening in a hotel I was asked a colleague if I wanted a copy of the Guardian ordered for the next morning.

I said no, the Times or Telegraph would be fine. They all looked at me in horror as if I had requested a copy of Mein Kampf.

That was the time I realised what an intolerant and peculiar bunch liberals are.

George

Bruce Lewis,

You seem to think that Melanie doesn't get it. You state that the real problem is "the JUSTICE of the policy which isolates and embargoes a whole people while at the same time continuing to confiscate their land on illegally occupied territory."
Obviously, it is you who doesn't get it. The article is talking about the Gaza Strip. It is not isolated. It has a common border with Egypt. The embargo is in place until Gilad Shalit is released, seeing as the Palestinians have made the totally unreasonable and disproportionate demand of releasing 450 prisoners in order to return one abducted soldier. Finally, there has not been one single Israeli citizen resident in the Gaza Strip for the last four years, so even by your definition there can be no occupation.

Kiwi

Bruce Lewis writes: "One is blaming the JUSTICE of the policy which isolates and embargoes a whole people while at the same time continuing to confiscate their land on illegally occupied territory."
Since the topic is all about Gaza and Israel’s Operation Cast Lead; perhaps Bruce can explain which part of Gaza is Israel illegally occupying?

Raymond Joseph Douglas

Very few media outlets , least of all the BBC , are interested in what you have reported Melanie . For them , the script is already written . This is not meant to discourage you Mel, just to say how it is.

Miranda Rose Smith

Do those in the West, particularly in Europe, who single Israel out for demonisation and delegitimisation for 'war crimes' really want the precedent set that its a war crime to shoot back when Arabs are shooting at you? The Arabs will, you can bet the rent money, be shooting at Europe, pretty soon.
My reaction to the British threat to arrest IDF officers for war crimes if they set foot in Britain was to say, I believe I said it in a letter to the Prime Minister, "Two can play at this game. I'm sure that the Israeli government can find, vacationing in Israel, some British soldiers who engaged in some unboyscoutly behavior in Ireland or Kenya. If the British arrest Israeli officers for war crimes, the Israelis should arrest British soldiers for war crimes, and tell 10 Downing Street "We're prepared to carry this farce as far as you are."

Tommy

Anyone who has ever looked at the islamic religion knows that there can be no acceptance of Israel as a jewish state EVER.. ..islam hates jews period..
Obama and the rest of the west are p****** against the wind

Meanwhile
An Egyptian newspaper reported this week that several European members of an Al Qaeda cell recently busted in Egypt received training and financing from Palestinian terror groups in the Gaza Strip.
The Europeans - three Belgians, a man from France and another from the UK - stand accused, along with seven Arab Al Qaeda members, of planning to attack Israeli targets in Egypt and monitoring Israeli traffic through the Suez Canal.

Egyptian authorities involved in the investigation told Cairo's Al-Masri Al-Youm daily newspaper that they had discovered shocking evidence of the massive degree of Al Qaeda activity in both Gaza and Egypt.
http://tinyurl.com/nrs4no

Augustus

Bruce Lewis, you appear to claim that the Palestinian people have been dispossessed of their land and that they are somehow objects of a predatory Zionist assault. But if you study the history of the period of the British Mandate (1920-1948) you will see the exact inverse is the truth. It was the Palestinian Arabs leaders who from the early 1920s onward,
and very much against the wishes of their own people, launched a relentless campaign to obliterate the Jewish national revival. This campaign culminated in the very violent attempt to abort the UN resolution of November 29th, 1947, which had called for the establishment of two states in Palestine. Had these leaders, and their counterparts in neighbouring Arab states, accepted that UN resolution, there would have been no conflict,and no dislocation in the first place.

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Mr. Edwards: As I said today, in an email to Amnesty International, asking Israel to co-operate with the U.N. is like asking a Black man to co-operate with the Ku Klux Klan.

David MacKinnon

Reading this has made me realize just how masochistic we have become in our "self-defense". We have all but bound ourselves to a chair and offered our throat to our enemies.

Rob-NY

Three cheers for Colonel Richard Kemp. He will of course be attacked from all sides by the usual suspects in the British media and politics. Courage is just not for the battlefield.

Derek BLADES

It is possible that Col Kemp is right in asserting that the IDF took steps to limit civilian deaths in Gaza during Cast Lead. The problem is that the IDF used battlefield weaponry on virtually defenceless civilians. As the casualty figures show even great care in their use is not very effective. It is their use in the first place that is the issue.

Derek BLADES

Several peole have tried to answer John Edward’s question - why Israel refuses to collaborate in the UN investigation of Operation Cast Lead. The UN investigation is lead by the distinguished South African judge Richard Goldstone and his report will be factual, evidence-based and impartial. That is why he was selected for this task. We all know that the real reason for Israel’s refusal to cooperate is that the government believes that an impartial investigation will show serious human rights violations by the IDF if not outright war-crimes. The silly excuses put forward by Adam B, David, and others are just that – silly.

Carlos Perera

In a rational world, Col Kemp's analysis of the IDF's _Operation Cast Lead_ would be unexceptional. Unfortunately, we no longer live in a rational world. Rather, we live in a world of Orwellian ovine logic, in which a goodly proportion of the population seamlessly transitions from shouting, "Two legs bad, four legs good," to "Four legs good, two legs better." Those of us who still adhere to quaint notions of sound argumentation must learn to shout (metaphorically) at least as loud as our ideological opponents (without, of course, abandoning the principles of logic). Ms. Phillips is doing her part on her side of the Atlantic . . . and so, it appears, is Col Kemp. Good luck to them both, from my side of the Atlantic.

George

Derek Blades @ 2:44 "We all know that the real reason for Israel’s refusal to cooperate is that the government believes that an impartial investigation will show serious human rights violations by the IDF if not outright war-crimes."
Neither you nor anybody else outside the Israeli inner circles of the government and IDF know anything of the kind. This is pure assumption on your part, based on absolutely zero evidence.

Si, N

'Israel’s military therefore observes a high standard of ethical behaviour…'; I wonder, was MP able to keep a straight face whilst typing that?

MP speaks of, 'Gaza’s rocket attacks'; clearly in denial of the fact that Israeli rocket/mortar attacks on Gaza had been going on longer, were more numerous and far more deadly. Not 1 report from the mainstream media has noted that fact - all reports were happy to supply the canard that Israel is entitled to defend itself from attack. Nor did any mainstream reporting note the crucial context for the conflict: the ongoing occupation of Palestinian land by Israeli forces and the attendant ethnic cleansing of Palestinian Arabs from the land on which they have lived for generations. Even the brutal and inhuman strangulation of the Gaza strip and its entire population received scant attention. So much for 'being demonised daily'; in reality it's clear that Israel's most outrageous behaviour is largely overlooked by the mainstream media.

Si, N

As for Kemp, pretending towards an observance of fair play he overlooks Hamas' 2008 offer of a 10 year cease fire - so impressed is he with the notion that '[i]n the latter stages of Cast Lead the IDF unilaterally announced a daily three-hour cease fire' - he omits to mention that during those 'cease-fires' the IDF prevented medical workers from reaching the wounded - such obstructions were not restricted to the 3 hour windows either - let's not forget reports of injured in Beit Hanoun and elsewhere being left in agony for days on end. Also, the indecent Kemp et al would do well to remember that during all stages of Cast Lead the IDF 'unilaterally' unleashed upon the half-starved captive population of Gaza all manner of indiscriminate killing devices - including the napalm-like white phosphorus (despite the clearly illegal and inhumane nature of deploying such weapons in the ambit of civilians) - the overwhelming extent of civilian casualties (including 300+ children) is testament to the IDF's indiscriminate fire - that despite the IDF's use of drones that are clearly able to identify targets.

Go figure

davidka

'They know that a British or Israeli commander and his men are bound by international law and the rules of engagement that flow from it. They then do their utmost to exploit what they view as one of their enemy’s main weaknesses'
In an nutshell, this is the truth that is ignored by virtually all the mainstream media, not only in the case of
Israel, but in every confrontation by Islamists with the West.

Scipio

Good to see some sanity is still left in the U.K. The British people and government would never put up with 1/2th of the terror that Israel has had to go through since Oslo.

Steven Frais

I was impressed by Col.Kemp's forthrightness. By speaking out against the standard condemn Israel mantra in the UK he has shown himself a person of conviction and moral strength. Pity there is no possibility of someone of this caliber rising to a position of power and influence in the UK political establishment.

C. Gee

Derek BLADES, 2:20p.m.,
You write: "The problem is that the IDF used battlefield weaponry on virtually defenceless civilians."
The IDF uses weaponry on enemy combatants using weaponry. The battlefield, chosen by the enemy, is the on the streets, houses, schools, hospitals and mosques of its own "defenceless citizens". (Why do you say "virtually"? Are you still thinking of the stone-throwers - behind whom stood the gunmen?)
Precision missiles, brute force tanks, sniper fire, mortars, house-to-house searches, hand-to-hand combat - all have their place in the theatre of war. The weaponry and the IDF's use of them is most definitely not the issue. The war is the issue.
Why do you not simply say that you want the Palestinian militants to win?

Kirk Strong

The phrase "proportional response" is a shibboleth of leftist group-think. It is a phrase which sounds wise and just, but which in reality is disastrous.

The most bloody, and therefore the most inhumane wars, are those fought between evenly matched combatants. When neither side can muster sufficient force to dominate the other, the killing just goes on and on.

As Sun Tzu argued in The Art of War, and as Israel has effectively demonstrated time and again, the least bloody, and therefore the most humane wars are those in which one side quickly overwhelms the other with vastly superior force.

The world at large, and the Palestinians in particular, should be grateful for Israel's "disproportionate" response.

Adam B.

Re Mr Blades' defence of the UN; I always find it interesting how Israel haters love the UN, as if this somehow provides them with moral superiority. The UN is anything but a moral organization, over half of whose members are despotic regimes who would be all too willing to find a scapegoat (Israel) rather than face questions about themselves. This is the same UN which has never uttered a single criticism (let alone condemnation) of Communist China's invasion and brutal suppression of Tibet, the same China which executes more people than the rest of the world combined (no UN comment). This is the UN which put Zimbabwe (100,000% inflation) in charge of economic development, and Libya with its torture chambers and secret police in charge of human rights.

Why won't Israel co-operate Mr Edwards and Mr Blades? Because the conclusion was written long before the investigation started - as in your own minds as well.

Why not deal with the substance of Col Kemp's excellent speech, rather than attack him by association?

C. Gee

Si, N:
So, if you were a Palestinian in Gaza, would you tell Hamas not to fire at the Israelis through your windows? Or would you invite them to do so? And how would you vote? For Hamas, or for Abbas? Would you continue to take hand-outs from UNWRA and donor nations, believing that your village house and olive grove in Israel will be restored to you? If you wanted to improve your economic condition, would you put pressure on Hamas to release Shalit and stop the rockets, so that the Israeli border traffic could increase? Would you pay protection money to Hamas, or rely on your clan for justice? If you wanted a state, would you start establishing the institutions of statehood - a constitution - or would you insist that nothing should be done until the armed resistance has succeeded in obliterating Israel? If there were a referendum on peace with Israel now, with no right of return, with minor adjustments to the 1967 borders and with East Jerusalem as the capital of a demilitarized and judenrein Palestine, would you vote for or against? And would you think that it would make any difference to Hamas, or its sponsors in Iran or enablers in the West?

josegarcia

I am always shocked to the core when none of those pro palestininan do-gooders say a word at all about suicide bombers in schools and cafes, and the THOUSANDS of rockets launched AT POPULATION CENTERS in israel,

no comdenation , not a single pressure statement, boycott, etc.

not about palestinians, arabs, noone ever, except when israel defends himself, it is not an issue of land, they gave away gaza and the golan hights , for what ? for more war.

truly disgusting

Olaf Rye

It is extraordinary that John Edwards is somewhat surprised that Colonel Kemp is associated with the Conservatives--what soldier could ever support Labour ? Moreover, it scarcely invalidates his opinions as a professional soldier. This is one of those rhetorical devices so often favoured by the Left: elicit suspicion about the messenger, imply nefarious political connexions, and avoid discussing the substantive elements of the argument.

The analysis offered by Colonel Kemp is precisely what you would hear from any professional military personnel at the sharp-end. All the groups in the Middle East seem to operate with profound contempt for their own civilian population and actively seek to conduct their military operations from behind civilian establishments and in densely populated districts. Any competent and responsible commander would have sought to evacuate the civilians before the hostilities were underway in earnest. To the mind of the Arab 'resistance' groups, or those in Afghanistan and Pakistan, civilian casualties are a welcome political benefit. Perhaps the only way for these groups to realise their folly is to hammer them hard and ignore the bleating from the leftist civvies that think you fight wars like the police (ineffectually) seek to stop crime. Holding hands and having candle-light marches is not going to achieve anything, nor is giving these people whatever they want and hope that they will go away.

And, as for the nonsense about WP being an illegal weapon--perhaps the critics ought to read the Geneva Convention to begin with ! WP is perfectly legal; the morality of using it is open to debate, though, much like Hamas firing napalm. The Guardian and International Socialist publications are pretty poor sources of reliable information.

Si, N

C Gee asks, ‘[w]hy do you not simply say that you want the Palestinian militants to win’??

Well I for one would rather the Israeli forces ceased attacking Palestinians and stealing land - maybe that way the Palestinian militancy Gee dreads might cease too. Kemp suffers a similar myopia – unlike Kirk Strong (reason weak), Kemp and G have misplaced their Sun Tzu; know your enemy’ said he – yet here we see our ‘Military Expert’ lumping Hamas/Hezbolah in with Al Qaida - so premature is he with the cart - the horse has long bolted.

Reason weak – ‘The most bloody, and therefore the most inhumane wars, are those fought between evenly matched combatants’. That’s just rubbish. Also, invoking this: ‘when neither side can muster sufficient force to dominate the other, the killing just goes on and on’, fails to account for the way Israel’s near full spectrum dominance merely assures that the killing of Palestinians just goes on and on. When citing: ‘[t]he least bloody, and therefore the most humane wars are those in which one side quickly overwhelms the other with vastly superior force’; is that apt here?

Consider: first, Gaza 08/09 was not a war, certainly not a battle ‘fought between evenly matched combatants’; it was a massacre. Second, ‘least bloody’ means exactly nothing to the 1300+ victims of the Gaza massacre. Third, it was a 3 week long massacre; less ‘quickly overwhelms’, more sustained lesson in ’superior force’. Fourth, Israel failed to achieve its stated aims – its brute use of ‘superior force’ merely fuelled ‘militancy’ - Hamas emerged stronger.

So what’s next - more ‘war’? To which ‘Expert’ do we turn? Sun Tzu? Kemp? Kirk?

Beam me up...

Leigh

John Edwards, Bruce Lewis, Si, N:

Your regurgitated arguments are shallow and missing so much fact. I hardly blame you for taking the side that you have; against Israel and with the rest of the world - it is the easy side.
However, it saddens me deeply to see that your arguments are supported merely by sophisticated wording, a sprinkling of twisted facts, and an obvious close-mindedness to which you have succumbed and with which you 'read' Melanie's article.
The truth is that Israel may have made its mistakes, just like EVERY other country that exists. None is perfect. However, Israel absolutely remains the moral and just one amidst nations and organizations who put their women and children on the front line for media attention and the world's sympathy and support, and who resort to violence of the most brutal and inhuman for everything. Israel must protect herself, and the lengths to which the Israelis have gone in the name of violence are merely to survive.
Do you even realize that Hamas and Hizbollah stored their information and weapons inside or underneath schools, mosques and other places which are constantly inhabited by their own women and children, a sick and completely deliberate tactic to get the media and world against Israel? Do you even realize that the IDF had no choice but to destroy these places containing them - after giving warnings to the occupants - not only protecting Israel but ultimately the rest of the world, as they are constantly doing? Don't you realize that Israel, a small and inconcievably brave, great and intelligent country, is fighting OUR BATTLE? We, in the Western world, with all our money and troops and facilities, have not proved to be brave or intelligent enough to overcome these movements and nations, and on our front line, Israel is taking our toll.
Thankyou Melanie, and Col Kemp. You've been brave enough to admit the truth. It's hard when the world is too scared to join you.

Adam B.

Sin espouses the baseless idea that Hamas would cease their attacks if only Israel "ceased attacking Palestinians" (as if done on a whim) "stealing land" (Gaza has been given to the Palestinians - but let's not worry about facts). This is a classic example of a western leftie transposing his/her own interpretation on Hamas' motives. However, both Hamas and Hizbollah are explicit about their motives in their respective charters. Both openly advocate the genocide of every Jew on earth. These are not limited political aims, and neither are they predicated by Israel's policies. They are simply racist anti-Semitic organizations with a religiously inspired fetish for killing Jews.

I suggest a reading of Hamas' charter, which also mocks the very idea of any peace talks, in any circumstances, and declares that violent jihad is the only acceptable path.

Yehuda

Those posters who defend Hamas and Fatah, while misrepresenting Israel's defensive measures are de facto propaganda agents of the Arab terrorist forces, terrorists being defined as those who target civilians to achieve political aims.
The collaborators will never listen to reason or facts.

David

Derek Blades - "We all know that the real reason for Israel’s refusal to cooperate is that the government believes that an impartial investigation will show serious human rights violations by the IDF if not outright war-crimes."

Who, very specifically, is "We" that you refer to in your post? How is it that 'you all' know the outcome in lieu of the proposed investigation? If everyone knows what the outcome should be, what's the point in having the investigation at all?

I noted earlier on that Israel is concerned about bias in the proposed report. You apparently think that that's "silly" but then proceed to shoot yourself in both feet by claiming that everyone already knows what the findings of the investigation should be! That rather proves Israel's point, doesn't it?

Trumpeldor

Colonel Kemp's comments made me proud of Britain once again.
I thought that feeling had disappeared from my psyche long ago
But leftists hate cold analysis and facts and stick to their antisemetic agenda like glue to paper.
Very unsurprisingly, very few reactions from the leftists about the recent events in Xinkiang...
No calls for boycot of "colonial" chinese products or huge demonstration in front of chinese embassies
Even Turkey 's Erdogan dares not open his mouth like he did with so much passion in Davos,some months ago...
(I thought Uighurs were related to Turks though!)
Why ??????????????

Jerry

I was so happy to hear someone of British origin say something positive about Israel that I almost forgot about the nature of MI6 and the British government's approach to the "problem of Israel." It behooves Israel to look askance at anyone with connections to the British government as suspect, including Mr. Kemp, if they praise Israel. So sorry to be paranoid, but along with France and the US, Britain too was probably involved in "uncovering Israeli intelligence assets" in Lebanon in recent weeks. The lives of those agents were worth no more than dung on the shoes of these governments. Please read "The Secret War Against the Jews" by John Loftus to understand just how convoluted real life becomes when everything is fair game and success is measured in dollars, not humans. British society is still trying to atone for its sin in allowing the creation of Israel, you know. That is why its policies look so bizarre to the average outsider.

Original Tony

What a breath of fresh air to hear this from a Briton!

And notice that the liberal posters are so shamed by it that they have to attack the author rather than debate the article

Derek BLADES

David, July 9th, writes “Derek Blades - "We all know that the real reason for Israel’s refusal to cooperate is that the government believes that an impartial investigation will show serious human rights violations by the IDF if not outright war-crimes." Who, very specifically, is "We" that you refer to in your post?
Very specifically “we” are anyone who saw the horrific pictures of phosphorous shells bursting over the densely populated Gaza, who read of the use of Dime weapons against the civilian population, and saw pictures on CNN or BBC of the massive destruction of the civilian infrastructure of Gaza. “We”, in short, are anyone with an ounce of common sense. The UN inquiry is needed to get at the full details of the horrors inflicted on the population of Gaza and, equally important, to determine what war crimes were committed by Hamas.

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Mr. Blades: So "we" are those who "saw the horrific pictures of phospherous shells bursting over the densly (sic) populated Gaza, who read of the use of Dime weapons against the civilian population and saw pictures on CNN or BBC of the massive destruction of the civilian infrastructure in Gaza." I guarantee you: you would have seen far worse if you could wander freely around Iran or Nigeria-or if you had been on Jerusalem's Ben-Yehuda Street, with the children of a friend of mine, the night of a terrorist attack.

Si, N

Miranda Rose Smith - you were clearly not following ALL of the events - if memory serves, a dozen Israeli's were killed (mostly by 'friendly fire') during the 08/09 Gaza Massacre - apart from their being Israelis, how is the death of a dozen 'far worse' than the death of 1300+ mostly innocent civilians including 300+ children?

Adam B.

Sin, you have missed the points raised by Col Kemp. He deals specifically with the civilian loss of life, and the problems Israel faces in tackling a ruthless enemy which uses its own civilian population as a shield and propaganda tool. Your argument seems to boil down to an objection against Israel using military force against Hamas at all, which means Israel should never defend herself.

Are you a military tactician? Do you know another way to fight Hamas without any civilians being hurt? If so, perhaps you could also inform the British army which, as Col Kemp points out, faces the same malicious tactics in fighting the Taliban as Israel faces with Hamas and Hizbollah.

Drakken

It is very obvious that a few here have never served in uniform and are real quick on the draw when it come to call a war crime when it is just plain good ole fashioned warfare. Sorry leftist, WP ain't against any conventions no matter how much you wish it so. Oh hey I have a really great idea, why don't you folks who are baying at the moon go to Isreal and tell them how wrong they are!

njmick

Its good to see someone telling the truth.

Si, N

Dear Peter Hoskin, 4 attempts to post a response have failed to show-up. An indication of why my post is being filtered out would be appreciated.

Thanks

Pete Hoskin

Si, N: it's a little too snide and could encourage the thread to descend into ad hominem attacks.

Si, N

Thanks Peter - point taken, I'll remove the snidery.

Si, N

Drakken says, ‘[i]t is very obvious that a few here have never served in uniform and are real quick on the draw when it come to call a war crime when it is just plain good ole fashioned warfare’.

Aviv has 'served in uniform'; was there during the Gaza massacre, and is something of a 'military tactician' - he had to be - the tactics issued 'from above' for dealing with civilians during Cast Lead left Aviv asking, ‘where is the logic in this?

To be clear, declaring your intention to attack doesn’t miraculously render the attack wholly legitimate – it’s a totally spurious supposition – the continuous rocket attacks on Sderot for example indicated that Sderot was a target for rocket attacks - does it then follow that those people remaining in Sderot were legitimate targets? I think not -the same applies in Gaza.

Kemp is impressed because a ‘complete air squadron was dedicated’ to dropping ‘over 900,000 leaflets warning the population of impending attacks to allow them to leave designated areas’ – he’s just celebrating terrorism there – people in the ‘designated areas’ he speaks of, such as the ‘very densely populated area inside Gaza City’ where Aviv operated, were sitting ducks. As Aviv said, ‘I didn't really understand: On the one hand they don't really have anywhere to flee to, but on the other hand [command are] telling us they hadn't fled so it's their fault’.

About the treatment of civilians, here’s Aviv again:

‘[a]nd then I try to explain to the guy that not everyone who is in there is a terrorist, and that after he kills, say, three children and four mothers, we'll go upstairs and kill another 20 or so people. And in the end it turns out that [there are] eight floors times five apartments on a floor - something like a minimum of 40 or 50 families that you murder. I tried to explain why we had to let them leave, and only then go into the houses. It didn't really help. This is really frustrating, to see that they understand that inside Gaza you are allowed to do anything you want, to break down doors of houses for no reason other than it's cool’ ('Shooting and Crying', Amos Harel, 28 April 2009)

Is that ‘good’ and ‘ole fashioned’ enough ‘warfare’ for you?

Consul-At-Arms

I've quoted you and linked to you here: http://consul-at-arms2.blogspot.com/2009/08/re-british-military-expert-tells-truth.html