Wednesday 9 July 2008

 

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Liz Anderson

Liz suggests


And the answer is...?

Tuesday, 29th January 2008


The best line in Martin Amis’s otherwise defensive and uncomfortable interview with the Independent
today is this:

The reason that America is the only First World country with a non-declining birth rate is because of all those things we hate about it, you know – [it's] patriarchal, church-going. I'm going to take this up because I think it's such an enormous question – has feminism cost us Europe?
Way to go, Martin.


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Nancy Baumgartner, USA

January 29th, 2008 10:23pm

Not so fast, Martin. If you take a look at the demographics, its NOT the patriachal church-goers who are breeding. Its the, "I don't care how many kids I have because the government will support us" types who yield an impressive birth rate. Not good.

Deepan

January 29th, 2008 10:23pm

I think it is wrong to say that Americans all have higher birth rates. If you look at the total fertility rate for White Americans it is similar to the fertility rate you find in England. It is the latinos and blacks that raise the birth rate to replacement level that is 2.1. If anything America will become a spanish-majority country far before what Martin Amis suggests will happen to Europe in the future.

George Steiner

January 30th, 2008 2:26am

I have contemplated this question in similar terms. Is femininism responsible for the very low birth rate in all of the Western countries? I suspect it has made a major contribution to it. Having some feeble experience with children, I know that they represent a lot of work for a long time. It probably looked on the surface attractive to young woman to work, rather than be mothers. Have all the wonderfull advantages that working man had for long. Long hours, battles for promotion, lots of exciting travel, managerial perks, earning reasonable money. I am sure I have forgotten many others. But those of us who have travelled this road know, the glamour is limited but you swet alot. You would have to have tried it for some decades to know this and women have not yet had the decades. I understand though that there is a subtle shift underway, that will change things.

larrikin

January 30th, 2008 3:13am

yes, George, its called civilisational suicide and I expect it will change things subtly

Maurice, MD

January 30th, 2008 7:07am

This comment on birth-rates in the First World is not statistically correct. The highest birthrate in the First World is in Israel. That is true when applied only to Jewish women, as well as the over-all birthrate of Jewish and Arab Israeli women combined.

Zardoz

January 30th, 2008 8:32am

AND... the real answer as to why the USA does not have a declining birth rate ... IS... The truth that dare not speak its name. i.e. immigration - legal and illegal - as figures from the US census bureau confirm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ Misguided immigration policies have "done for" Europe and are doing the same for America. Where those who would like to consider themselves the indigenous inhabitants are being outbred -too dumb to survive! Its called Darwinism.

N. Simon

January 30th, 2008 11:07am

Martin Amis should run for election in the political arena. Unlike this government, he's willing to call a spade a spade and talk about Islamism, which is a genuine threat to us all.

JB

January 30th, 2008 1:29pm

Actually, the reasons for a higher birthrate in the U.S. are varied. We are a difficult people to stereotype. Those who think they finally have us pegged, suddenly discover that we have re-invented ourselves once again, and are off in another direction. We are the most diverse people in the world. We get along with each other astonishingly well (all things considered), we are linked by a constitution which belongs to us (We, the People of the United States), and not to our governing officials (despite their delusions to the contrary), an economic system and a love of freedom. We like other people and you will find us very friendly, but we don't give a rat's behind what anybody thinks of us. And we will keep having children to ensure the blessings of liberty to them, as we and our ancestors have ensured to us.

Aldamir

January 30th, 2008 2:42pm

Interesting that in Europe we pride ourselves on the "family friendly" nature of our working practices, yet it is in the US and all the family unfriendly places that people actually have children. Wonder why that is?

Leona

January 30th, 2008 6:53pm

Johann Hari! Who else? Well, he's hardly going to question the prejudices (and they are legion) of his regular newspaper, The Independent. Hitler sought to dominate the world by war and by breeding, this did not make every German a Nazi but it was a sure way of making sure that Nazism - and its social values - would succeed. This is what the Islamists want too. It doesn't then follow that all Muslims have fallen in behind this idea but it's still there and it's still happening. Mr Hari does just what his paper does: when the facts of the ideology contradict you, try to concentrate on race to undermine your opponent. Of course, there is no Muslim gene anywhere. For one who poses - and I strongly suspect it is a pose - with such shock at Martin Amis and Mark Steyn, Mr Hari seems very quiet about: "Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate." Is Mr Hari satisfied that this is not a manifesto to murder? Why shouldn't Amis and Steyn be able to comment on the effects of words like that? The Left always seems to like playing join the dots with the effects of Western values and Western culture (nearly always always negative), but never wants to speculate the same way when it comes to Islam. The poster here called N Simon suggests Mr Amis should run for office. He gets my vote.

Lynne T

January 30th, 2008 7:36pm

George Steiner: I am not sure that feminism or even the decline in religiousity are the reasons for declining birth rates among Europeans and North Americans of European ancestry. If my two daughers, both in their early 30s and their husbands who are both in their mid-30s are anything to judge by, some of their generation are not just delaying having families until they are on firmer financial ground, but forgoing it altogether to persue various interests.

Lee Jakeman

January 30th, 2008 10:28pm

Regardless of whether we have a "capitalist" or "socialist" government, ours is a market economy. That means that goods and services are made for the purpose of exchange in the marketplace. This is the only productivity that is measured by economists and hence remunerated. Housework, by contrast, is hard work (ask anyone who's done it) but because the service provided is not exchanged in the marketplace, it is neither measured by economists nor rewarded in any way. Little wonder, then, that women prefer to work for a reward rather than make a "career" out of raising their children - and getting absolutely nothing for it - not even appreciation.

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