Defending the west

R Newman

Were all of the Muslim cab drivers refusing, or just some of them? This should be made clear. Does the reaction mean that cab drivers can be forced to accept passengers they don't want? I am 'conflicted' here.

Ben-Tsiyon

"And what path are we taking in Britain ?"...ongoing placation of the Islamists in their endless complaints and demands. There used to be periodic outbursts of protest among indigenous Brits against the practise of 'shechita',which is the Jewish method of slaughter required for the provision of 'kosher'meat, but I doubt if there will be any more of that. Why not ? Because there is the parallel Moslem method of slaughter required to provide 'halal' meat, and with the current bending-over-backwards to accomodate the Islamists in all their demands,who would dare to protest about that !

C Powell

R Newman: why are you conflicted? Cab drivers here are expected to accept all passengers. All that was being required is that Muslim cab drivers should not be allowed to discriminate against the blind or anyone else, simply because of their religious scruples. Perfectly reasonable.

Brian Williamson

For further elucidation try http://www.danielpipes.org/article/5475
which is the article Melanie quotes. Daniel Pipes is an inveterate campaigner in the US against the pernicious demands of Muslim groups such as CAIR. He is expert in Islam, the Koran, Hadiths and Islamic history and certainly uses this extensive knowledge when sorting out the wheat from the chaff of Islamic dissembling.

Miv Tucker

R Newman - The point is, surely, that cab drivers are self-employed, and are not forced to be cabbies. If Moslem drivers find that cab-driving interferes with their religious practice they are quite free to take up another occupation.

field

Yes, this is a good example of unity triumphing over dogma. We should have been adopting the same approach to a range of issues over the years including clothing for girls in school.

Austin Barry

Where Islam, and much else, is concerned, there are essentially two constituencies: the weak appeasement monkeys and the dismayed and deeply troubled. Unhappily, our ruling elite is the former. There are, however, encouraging signs: the howl of outrage at the Archbishop's speech, the intellectual elite (C. Hitchens, Amis etc.) adopting an increasingly hardline position and the relentless, daily insights into the more disagreeble aspects of the Islamic world by the media (well, not Al Beeb and Al Gruaniad) and alerting people to the shape of the enemy. It may take, horribly, one or two more major and successful terrorist incidents, but I suspect that sooner or later, all constituencies will have what the shrinks call " a burst into reality" and the new Caliphate is doomed. But the endgame will be nasty and brutal.

Sounder

"When Westerners broadly agree on rejecting a specific Islamic law or tradition and unite against it, Western Islamists must adjust to the majority's will." ...Until their % of the population reaches .......?

Ron Todd

In this country we have a ruling party that will be derperate for Muslim votes at the next election. That alone makes it unlikely that we will have any condemnation leyt alone action against any cultural practices associated with Islam until the Tories win an election. I am sure that the majority of labour voters are as much against honour murders forced/aranged marrages anti sematism intolerance as the rest of us are.

Ahad Ha'amortazim

R Newman, at the Minneapolis St. Paul airport, the cab drivers organized in a group and presented their refusal as a group demand. It was not one or two cabbies, but an organization claiming to speak for all Muslim cabbies serving the airport. Powerlineblog.com reported this dispute on a continuing basis at the time.

George Steiner

Ms. Phillips you got it wrong. It is not sticking together that is required. It is sticking UP that the West better do.

Joe Strummer

The British populace either decide to look away and pretend this chip-chipping away at our Western social norms isn't happening or they quietly seethe in indignation and resentment waiting on " their betters" to make a stand. Poor old paralysed Britain.

Ravi

We have just had the classic example of appeasement and giving-in instead of saying NO!. ABoC and his call for a parallel Shariah system. In a sense WE told him where to stick it and it isn't going to happen. With reference to waiting until Muslim population reaches x% - Muslim population is only 3% of UK. If you look at population clusters of Muslims you would conclude that their vote has almost zero political effect. They may punch through and elect a Galloway but they can't influence 652 seats in Parliament.

alan stoddart

Read James MacMillan's article in this very magazine. I doubt whether you will find a more succinct analysis of the political and social Liberal regime we are seemingly trapped in...http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/arts/476936/unthinking-dogmatism.thtml & A shorter version by F. Scott Fitzgerald: "My generation of radicals and breakers-down never found anything to take the place of the old virtues of work and courage and the old graces of courtesy and politeness."

Paul B

I agree with Austin Barry below in everything he says, especially with his disagreeable (although nonetheless true) conclusion, that it will take further successful (in the terrorists terms) murderous outrages for the majority of the British public to sit up and take notice. I fear those outrages will have be on the scale on the 7/7 attacks with large wholesale loss of life, rather than the car bomb attack at Glasgow Airport, although that is not to diminish the severity of that attack.

joe echols

Ms. Melanie: I an delighted to observe that someone with your spunk still lives in England (GB). I am from NC and spent a delightful year at Cambridge some 35 years ago and I follow events on your side of the pond thru the internet and the Economists. Joe

Verity

R Newman - All islamic cab drivers at Minneapolis Airport were refusing to take passengers who were blind, with guide dogs, and also passengers who were carrying alcohol. By which I mean, duty free that they were taking home. If they had such religious inhibitions, they were not qualified to be cab drivers. But any excuse to impose themselves on their host nations and express their disapproval. However, there was such fury that Minneapolis Airport and the police department sorted them out. Now if they refuse to take a dog or someone carrying alcohol, they get suspended for a few days. If I'm not wrong, a second offence loses them their licence.

field

Ravi - I think you underestimate the political influence of Muslim voters. They can punch above their weight in a number of ways: 1. They are crowded in inner city constituencies where a person's vote is worth a half and more again than people in the suburbs and countryside (because they are smaller constituencies). Secondly, they can vote en bloc more effectively than other communities, especially where a Mosque committee decides to back a party or candidate. Thirdly, they have a greater tendency to vote (sometimes twice as much) as other inner city communities. Lastly, then can enter into alliance with other parties to augment their influence as we have seen with Respect. Put all the above together and I think you could probably say already that there 3% translates into 10% in terms of influence. If we see further mass emigration, this 10% could grow tremendously. A Muslim party that could deliver 10-20% of MPs could easily hold the balance of power and be in government.

Ann

I don't think you quite grasp the concept of first past the post, Field.

Mr Grumpy

Rowan Williams' lecture is actually quite clear on the way he would like to see a case like this dealt with. The idea would be to refer it to a beefed-up version of the Islamic Shari'a Council and hope that (a) it rules that the cabbies' scruples are 'vexatious' and (b) they accept its jurisdiction. And if not? At that point I'm groping through the fog, but it seems to pretty much depend on whether he's having one of his human rights days or one of his community identity days. Advice to blind Brits: be prepared for some long walks.

field

Ann - I don't think you quite grasp the concept of either first past the post or community concentration. The fact is that the Muslim population is highly concentrated in the UK. If the population is 3% I would guess that 3% is concentrated in some 10% of constituencies. Within the next few years Muslims will be in the majority in most of those constituencies, certainly in terms of the people who actually turn out to vote. That could mean they could potentially elect the winner on first past the post in between 30 and 60 seats, more than enough to hold the balance of power. If a Muslim party went in disguise as a "progressive coalition" as with Respect it could perform even more strongly across a large number of constituencies. I am not seeing all this will come to pass, I am simply pointing out that it is quite possible, even probable - since we have already seen with Respect the tendency of the Muslim population to look for separatist representation. I think people need to understand that in a democratic system a minority community with a strong identity can have a decisive effect on politics.

Jeff Laster

Melanie, Jeff here, from Oxford who puts on debates at Synergy in London, the 'alternative'rave club. I hope to say hello to you after I see you speak tomorrow eve at Jewish Book Week. My main point aqain is that without serious level immigration restriction of Muslims to the UK, all these warnings about the dangers and horrors of extremist (and at times even moderate) Islam in the West become a form of 'masturbation' (forgive the sexual reference) by commentators such as yourself. I say this in the most respectful of ways. For Islam to be controlled in any meaningful way, a serious level of immigration restriction must be put into place. I am puzzled why you can't see this? If you can, Why not emphasis it in your articles? Best, Jeff

Hereford

None of what is required to protect our culture is going to happen without an uprising taking place in the general population. That just ain't going to happen folks. Our general population are disengaged, disinterested and disassociated. As long as the booze flows and the trash tv is there to numb their brains they will not move from their instant credit bought leather sofas to defend one single principle. By the time they wake up to what is happening it will be too late. The best we can hope for is an after the fact resistance movement and guerilla warfare for the 50 or so years after takeover.

Ann

Field, all your numbers are pure guesswork. At least you have the decency to admit that. I can't see the LibDems holding the 'balance of power' in today's parliament, but perhaps you think they do? If so, you are the only one who does. As for 'Respect', everyone can see it quite plainly for the joke it is. No larger party could go 'in disguise' and fail to be spotted, as per your wild scenario.

Libax

Melanie & her cheerleaders: I found this online: Care to comment?

Question: As a child growing up in Tel Aviv, I don't believe I ever saw an Orthodox Jew (the ones with streimels, peiyes, and a Prince Albert coat) walking a dog. Is there some sort of religious reason for an aversion to dogs?

Answer:

The Talmud does say that it is forbidden to keep a pet that will scare other people, and specifically mentions a barking dog. This is but one example of the Torah's sensitivity to other's feelings. With blessings from Jerusalem, Rabbi Shraga Simmons (source: ask Rabbi Simmons)

Libax

Melanie, FYI, many of the Muslim practices--such not allowing children out of wedlock that are clearly not pro-Western--can also be said against Jews; especially Orthodox Jews. Do Jews allow having children out of wedlock? I dare anyone in this forum to compare it. The similarities are shocking! In my experience, Muslims share many similar teachings or practices with Jews, especially Orthodox Jews—that are clearly not compatible with the Western culture. So don't push too hard, you might open a Pandora’s Box for your clients—for you can feed a baby monster—but once it grows, it will feed on you! Watch out, Melanie!